William Morris interview...
Trish Brown
interviewing a lovely bloke (whose name I didn't catch - oops!) about a
an Australian family which espoused the designs of William Morris. It's
very interesting, listening to the ways in which Morris derived his
designs, why he was so popular with the particular family (who imported
much of his work to Adelaide, in whose dry climate it has survived very
well to the present day) and so on.
Thought some of you might be interested...
Go here:
http://www.abc.net.au/classic/throsby/default.htm#listen
Today's interview button will probably be available on Monday.
NB. Owing to Margaret showing my email to Dr Tony Attwood, I have a
phone appointment with him soon! Yay! *I'm* going to get to talk to Mr
Asperger's! How 'bout that?
--
Trish {|:-}
Newcastle, Australia
Manth
<kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Listening to my friend, Margaret Throsby, this morning. She's
>interviewing a lovely bloke (whose name I didn't catch - oops!) about a
>an Australian family which espoused the designs of William Morris. It's
>very interesting, listening to the ways in which Morris derived his
>designs, why he was so popular with the particular family (who imported
>much of his work to Adelaide, in whose dry climate it has survived very
>well to the present day) and so on.
Ah, this may explain why the Adelaide Art Gallery has an exceptional
collection on display of Morris works! I must trot over and listen to
the interview.
Every time I visit the Gallery, I LOVE wandering through the Morris
exhibit. Gorgeous stuff. If'n'when the Browns ever make it to this
neck of the woods, Trish, we'll wander through together!
>NB. Owing to Margaret showing my email to Dr Tony Attwood, I have a
>phone appointment with him soon! Yay! *I'm* going to get to talk to Mr
>Asperger's! How 'bout that?
How wonderful, Trish! I hope you find the phone discussion gives you
some more avenues to explore to help get Matt to a comfortable place
again.
BTW, please think of my little Goddesses tonight, won't you? They've
got their Wakakirri Story Dance performance tonight at Her Majesty's
Theatre in the city and they are a combination of nerves and
excitement. They are leaving in about an hour to get to on-stage
dress rehearsals.
I'm really happy - second row seats mean I might actually be able to
see what they're doing this year!
Manth
Trish Brown
> Ah, this may explain why the Adelaide Art Gallery has an exceptional
> collection on display of Morris works! I must trot over and listen to
> the interview.
>
> Every time I visit the Gallery, I LOVE wandering through the Morris
> exhibit. Gorgeous stuff. If'n'when the Browns ever make it to this
> neck of the woods, Trish, we'll wander through together!
Oh, yes please! I've googled and googled William Morris (and all things
Art Nouveau/Deco as well). I'd love to see something of his in the
flesh, as it were! The interview was with a bloke called Christopher
Menz - nice bloke and fascinating history he gave of the family who
imported so many of the Morris works!
> BTW, please think of my little Goddesses tonight, won't you? They've
> got their Wakakirri Story Dance performance tonight at Her Majesty's
> Theatre in the city and they are a combination of nerves and
> excitement. They are leaving in about an hour to get to on-stage
> dress rehearsals.
How'd it go then? Still waiting for the blow-by-blow description, Manth!
>
> I'm really happy - second row seats mean I might actually be able to
> see what they're doing this year!
Oh geez! That must be *so* frustrating for you! I hope you got a really
good look this year and expect the girlies did themselves proud! ;-D
Manth
<kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Manth wrote:
>> BTW, please think of my little Goddesses tonight, won't you? They've
>> got their Wakakirri Story Dance performance tonight at Her Majesty's
>> Theatre in the city and they are a combination of nerves and
>> excitement. They are leaving in about an hour to get to on-stage
>> dress rehearsals.
>
>How'd it go then? Still waiting for the blow-by-blow description, Manth!
Oh, they were COMPLETELY wonderful!
The spirit of Wakakirri is to have the kids participate, rather than
'win' or 'lose', so they mix up the divisions (there were 4 'novice',
1 'intermediate' (our school) and 1 'experienced' performance in the 6
presentations that night) and judge across the entire 10 days of the
festival. You only find out if you got into the finals at the end of
the festival, which has another week to run.
Athena was one of the 3 School Representatives who speak at the end of
the performance. I'll let her tell you about their show in her own
words.
"There is a simple village somewhere in Africa and the sun is rising.
Slowly the village comes to life as the women start their daily
chores, the children run out to play and the hunters to hunt.
Then the gazelles come out jumping, the lions prowl and the elephants
stomp. It's just an ordinary day.
In the distance gunfire sounds. The hunters return, all the families
try to find one another. A child loses her blanket! The villagers
flee.
Their homes and possessions destroyed, they must live in a camp
surrounded by barbed wire to keep them in.
The villagers are taken by the Red Cross workers on a plane to
Australia where they are greeted by many people.
The child who lost her blanket is given another one by the Red Cross.
She had been deeply sad because of all the things that had happened to
her, but with this new blanket she starts to heal - there is hope for
a better future and our story ends."
Athena played a Hunter, while Ishtar was a Lion, and also one of the
welcoming people in the airport. She also Understudied the Principal
Child (the one who loses the blanket) and was on tenterhooks in case
Jessie got sick and couldn't perform - but all was well on the Night,
with everyone present and accounted for. The presented Blanket was
supposed to be my Lap Quilt which I had loaned for the night, but they
couldn't find it in the backstage gloom and so she was Presented with
the one she lost in the Village but I doubt anyone really noticed - it
was really just a few seconds of stage time.
>> I'm really happy - second row seats mean I might actually be able to
>> see what they're doing this year!
>
>Oh geez! That must be *so* frustrating for you! I hope you got a really
>good look this year and expect the girlies did themselves proud! ;-D
It is frustrating - but this year I was close enough to see some
facial expressions! I was on the end of the row, which curved
slightly, so I had no-one in front of me at all - such joy. Some of
the other parents in our block complained about being too close for
comfort, but I loved it.
Athena, as a school representative, went a little over the top during
the presentations and certificate awards at the end. She had her
spear on stage with her and kept dancing with it when they danced,
punching the air with it when they were called forward (they get a
Performance Certificate, plus an extra one for every cast member, and
also won the Eco Award for best recycling - nearly everything involved
in their production, from costumes to sets and props was recycled from
previous years, or donated left-overs from businesses, homes and dance
schools). She really showed her character and had the audience and
judging/presenting staff in fits of laughter - nothing intrusive but
no sign of nerves, either. Many of the kids from other schools were
very visibly nervous, unsmiling and nearly forgetting to come forward
when their schools were called for!
I'm getting the DVD of the show, which I'll happily loan to you (or
copy their Bits to video if you don't have a DVD player) when I get
it. When the professional photos are available to view on-line
(you're not allowed to take your own shots during the show) I'll send
the link so you can have a look at them. If they make it to the
finals, I'll be sure to let you know!
Manth
Trish Brown
> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:28:23 +1000, Trish Brown
> <kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>
>>Manth wrote:
>>
>>>BTW, please think of my little Goddesses tonight, won't you? They've
>>>got their Wakakirri Story Dance performance tonight at Her Majesty's
>>>Theatre in the city and they are a combination of nerves and
>>>excitement. They are leaving in about an hour to get to on-stage
>>>dress rehearsals.
>>
>>How'd it go then? Still waiting for the blow-by-blow description, Manth!
>
>
> Oh, they were COMPLETELY wonderful!
Yayy!!! That's lovely! I *wish* we could've been there! I'd have loved
to see Athena doing her thing with her spear! LOL! How was Ishie? No
doubt completely demure and just-so? LOLOL! Isn't it just excellent to
see them working away toward a goal and achieving it? Makes your heart
sing...
We have nothing remotely like Wakakirri in NSW. Instead, we have a Rock
Eisteddfodd-thingy and it leaves me somewhat underwhelmed... Heaps of
young kids leaping around in hardly anything and pre-pubescent ones
singing about 'lurve' as if they're about to swallow the microphone. How
can they emote over nonsense they know nothing about! Harrumph!
(Should I say 'Bah! Humbug!' yet?)
Mind you, one thing I *sorely* miss in Primary school is the gentle art
of recitation. We had to memorise and be able to recite (meaningfully)
hundreds of poems, both by Oz poets and ones from O.S. There's something
extremely pleasing about a choral recitation and for some reason it's no
longer popular. Geez, I can still remember (most of) 'The Man From Snowy
River' and 'The Old Bush School' and 'The Wreck of the Hesperus' and so on!
And another thing! What ever happened to it being a requirement that a
teacher should be able to play a musical instrument? Hey?
This year, Ellie has a teacher who can strum a few chords on a guitar,
but she's *too embarrassed* to sing and play in front of her class!!!!
She 'teaches' them to sing things by playing an mP3 player at them. How
do they expect kids to become familiar with the mechanics and interior
workings of music if the only instrument their teacher can play is an
mP3 player? It's bizarre! AND... it appears to be OK if kids don't want
to sing in full voice, but prefer to mouth the words and give some kind
of smirking, simpering performance that leaves one wondering 'Whatever
happened to the exuberance of childhood'?
LOL! See what happens when you get me going?
Ellie's class had Mass on Friday and for once (!) her teacher and the
Boss played guitars instead of a CD. For once, the whole school joined
in and *sang*! It's completely amazing what a difference it makes when a
teacher gets up and plays for the class! I think I shall begin a
vendetta... Stamp out all recorded music devices in schools! Oh yea!
And another thing! I should like to begin a vendetta against the current
trend of execrable spelling in Australian public fora. If I see *one
more* example of a possessive apostrophe used to form a plural, I shall
SCREAM!!!!!! When did it suddenly become necessary to insert an
apostrophe before every use of the letter 's'? It floors me! At first,
it was irregular nouns that end in a vowel where one would see
apostasies such as 'piano's' and 'potato's' and 'video's'. Now, I'm
seeing 'carrot's' and 'tyre's' and 'baby's'!!!! And not only that, but
it's happening in DD's school newsletter!!! You know: the place at
which someone is supposed to be teaching her to spell correctly!!!
WHY???
It's driving me *mad*! MAD, I tell you! I see it everywhere in
newspapers, on TV ads and on all sorts of written publications where
*some* one ought to know we form the plural simply by adding the letter
's'. Geez!
Does anyone have any idea of the best way in which to begin an
underground movement to bring back correct spelling? I'm at my wits' end!
Manth
<kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>Manth wrote:
>> On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 15:28:23 +1000, Trish Brown
>> <kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Manth wrote:
>>>
>>>>BTW, please think of my little Goddesses tonight, won't you? They've
>>>>got their Wakakirri Story Dance performance tonight at Her Majesty's
>>>>Theatre in the city and they are a combination of nerves and
>>>>excitement. They are leaving in about an hour to get to on-stage
>>>>dress rehearsals.
>>>
>>>How'd it go then? Still waiting for the blow-by-blow description, Manth!
>>
>>
>> Oh, they were COMPLETELY wonderful!
>
>Yayy!!! That's lovely! I *wish* we could've been there! I'd have loved
>to see Athena doing her thing with her spear! LOL! How was Ishie? No
>doubt completely demure and just-so? LOLOL! Isn't it just excellent to
>see them working away toward a goal and achieving it? Makes your heart
>sing...
Oh, Ishie wasn't demure at all. Her part called for her to prowl and
growl (miming) and posture and she did that BEAUTIFULLY in her Lion
incarnation. As a Welcoming Person at the airport she had to dance
and wave flags and be generally happy and she did just that. She
didn't elect to be a Representative (although she's seriously
considering volunteering for that next time) so she didn't get the
additional chance to show herself off. Next time...
>We have nothing remotely like Wakakirri in NSW. Instead, we have a Rock
>Eisteddfodd-thingy and it leaves me somewhat underwhelmed... Heaps of
>young kids leaping around in hardly anything and pre-pubescent ones
>singing about 'lurve' as if they're about to swallow the microphone. How
>can they emote over nonsense they know nothing about! Harrumph!
Indeed you DO have Wakakirri in NSW. Both for Primary and Secondary
schools, even! The NSW heats are already over, but there's always
next year. All schools everywhere in Australia are welcome to join in
- government, religious or independent. Check out
http://www.wakakirri.com/ where they have all the guidelines and
contact details and maybe suggest to Ellie's teacher next year that
they get involved. It's a wonderful thing, and really is much better
for Primary kids than Rock Eisteddfodd! We also have that in
Adelaide, but our school chooses not to be involved.
>And another thing! What ever happened to it being a requirement that a
>teacher should be able to play a musical instrument? Hey?
I don't know. A lot of the teachers at our school don't Play, either
- but at least they get CDs of instrumental-only music to work to,
which helps. They also have some specialist-Music sessions where the
kids learn to play. Ishtar and Athena's teacher from several years
back (who is also the Wakakirri Co-ordinator) does that 3 days a week
which is lovely.
>AND... it appears to be OK if kids don't want
>to sing in full voice, but prefer to mouth the words and give some kind
>of smirking, simpering performance that leaves one wondering 'Whatever
>happened to the exuberance of childhood'?
Kids are expected to sing, properly, in music lessons at school. If
you're not prepared to sing and do it right, you can sit in a
classroom with a teacher and write out lists of terribly boring (but
practical) stuff like your weekly Spelling Words, or times tables,
over and over again. Given the choice of an hour of proper singing or
an hour of writing tables, most kids opt for singing!
>And another thing! I should like to begin a vendetta against the current
>trend of execrable spelling in Australian public fora.
It makes one twitch, does it not! Our school newsletter is not
*quite* as bad, but it has examples that really make my eyes water,
and not just in the student comments that sometimes get published.
>Does anyone have any idea of the best way in which to begin an
>underground movement to bring back correct spelling? I'm at my wits' end!
All I can do is instill it in my *own* kids. At least Athena's
teacher is trying hard to make sure her class is aware of correct
spelling, punctuation and grammar. She'll correct things the first
time, the second time they get to write out the correction 10 times,
20 for the third instance and so on. Eventually it sinks in that Miss
Mac doesn't allow corner-cutting!
Manth
Jan Lennie
Every morning they have assembly which always involves at least one song
also at end of day they sing good night songs amongst others and the
teachers always join in . They have one particular music teacher who's
proficient in quite a few instruments although most of the teachers will
'have a go' . At special times like Easter , Christmas or term end they have
a service in the village church (parts date back to the 14th century) and
the children are encouraged to participate fully as indeed are the parents
and other audience members expected and encouraged to sing along .
Jan
"Manth" <ma...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:natgg1tg77djtvm3d...@4ax.com...
Seanette Blaylock
about Re: Wakakirri and a rant!:
>>AND... it appears to be OK if kids don't want
>>to sing in full voice, but prefer to mouth the words and give some kind
>>of smirking, simpering performance that leaves one wondering 'Whatever
>>happened to the exuberance of childhood'?
>Kids are expected to sing, properly, in music lessons at school. If
>you're not prepared to sing and do it right, you can sit in a
>classroom with a teacher and write out lists of terribly boring (but
>practical) stuff like your weekly Spelling Words, or times tables,
>over and over again. Given the choice of an hour of proper singing or
>an hour of writing tables, most kids opt for singing!
So what happens to kids with no musical ability? Punishment for that
involuntary lack?
--
"The universe is quite robust in design and appears to be
doing just fine on its own, incompetent support staff notwithstanding.
:-)" - the Dennis formerly known as (evil), MCFL
Dianne Lewandowski
> So what happens to kids with no musical ability? Punishment for that
> involuntary lack?
With uncommon exception, children can be taught to sing and keep time
with music. It seems to be an innate ability, like knowing how to chew
gum. :-)
Part of the problem with today's children is that they often come to
school with no singing in their background. Their parents haven't sung
to or with them, or they haven't had recordings to listen to over and
over (and sing to). By the time they get to school, their little voices
are frozen in monotone.
But good teachers know how to "unlock" that dilemma with clever songs
that help their vocal chords and their ears.
Granted, in a classroom that doesn't "audition", the group isn't going
to sound as good overall. There's always going to be that child who
can't hear as well (therefore, can't find the note), the child who
shouts rather than is lyrical, the child who whispers. But you'd be
amazed how good a properly disciplined and practised choir can come out
of the direst of situations in classrooms. :-) It just takes a very
good teacher.
Dianne
--
"The Journal of Needlework" - The E-zine for All Needleworkers
http://journal.heritageshoppe.com
Trish Brown
got the *best* choir going at our school. Sue had the happy knack of
getting the kids to *participate* with gusto and I have to tell you, the
sound of fifty little voices singing 'The Holy City' with all their
hearts and lungs left not a dry eye in the house! Sue did the teaching
and I conducted while she played the piano... LOL! It was great fun!
Kids do love to sing and they will sing if you let them know 'we do this
because we love it and who cares if we take a while to get our sound right'.
After Sue left our school, I carried the choir on myself and had *huge*
success teaching them 'Oop Boop Diddem Daddem Waddem Choo' (dunno the
real title) with actions. Oh, they sang that all right! LOLOLOL! Nearly
took the roof off the building! By the time we'd finished our Speech Day
recitation, we had about eight hundred parents singing with us and doing
the actions as well! Heeheeheehee! That song is a Great Leveller...
Every kid can make a note of some sort. Every kid can keep some kind of
time. It doesn't have to be exact, but it certainly sounds better, the
more practice you put in to achieve unity. Isn't that what schooling's
all about? Practice? We had some tone deaf kids in our choir, but they
were just as valuable to us as the sweet voices (possibly more). The
wonderful sensation of singing in unity with a good, practiced choir is
one that shouldn't be denied any child and it's such a pity that poor
teacher training has caused generations of children to lose the chance
of experiencing it.
My ideal teacher was an old family friend (Miss Stephen: I once wrote a
boring story about her...). She never married, but made it her life's
work to teach as many children as she could as much as she could. She
learned to play the piano and sing as a child and, by golly, every child
that passed through her care had experience at singing. I can remember
sitting at her knee, learning to sing 'do re mi' and then singing
nursery rhymes with her. She began to teach me to play on her dear old
piano until her poor fingers became so knotted with arthritis, she could
no longer play. By then, of course, she was very, very old and getting
weaker. But she kept on teaching me about all sorts of things until she
died!
Miss Stephen knew about *every*thing, not just music! She could draw,
weave on a loom, collected plants and animals (could name them in Latin
too) had a formidable collection of rocks and minerals and had learned
the rudiments of Greek in her girlhood. Interestingly, Miss Stephen had
not attended Teacher's College. She went out to governess when her
mother died suddenly at a very young age and then went on to teach in
public schools around N'cle for over sixty years. I think her tenet must
have been 'every child can learn anything so long as his teacher remains
indefatigable'. She is fondly remembered by hundreds of Newcastle people
as an exceptional teacher and a loved headmistress. Sigh. I miss her so
much: she'd have just doted on my kids. She was a wonderful, wonderful
woman and a Grand Lady!
Trish Brown
> My Ellie's school is quite old fashioned compared to yours I think ?
> Every morning they have assembly which always involves at least one song
> also at end of day they sing good night songs amongst others and the
> teachers always join in . They have one particular music teacher who's
> proficient in quite a few instruments although most of the teachers will
> 'have a go' . At special times like Easter , Christmas or term end they have
> a service in the village church (parts date back to the 14th century) and
> the children are encouraged to participate fully as indeed are the parents
> and other audience members expected and encouraged to sing along .
> Jan
Oh yes, we have a morning assembly. They sing the school song (to a
taper recording and *without* much teacher example!!!) Yes, being a
Catholic school, our kids attend school Mass once a month, each class
taking turns to provide a theme and decorations for the church. The
standard of singing and participation is *execrable*, however, and
again, the evil mP3 player heaves into view as the means of providing
music. When *I* was a kid, we just sang a capella and nearly raised the
rafters with our voices!
Dianne Lewandowski
>
> So what happens to kids with no musical ability? Punishment for that
> involuntary lack?
I wanted to, again, respond to this remark. As I read Trish's response,
and reread Seanette's query, I felt something else unfolding.
Music is a part of culture. There isn't a single people's on the planet
Earth that doesn't have singing/rhythm as a part of their culture. As
well, musical instruments - and some very primitive which have
astoundingly beautiful sounds. In some American Indian tribes, their
peculiar instruments were handed down from father to son with the
expectation that the son would master it (or else). I expect that is
probably true of other cultures as well.
So, as culture, music belongs in the classroom (in my opinion).
To get back to Seanette's interesting question, I would ask: "What
happens to kids with no math ability?" That certainly was a challenge
for me, but blessed are those that made sure I had rudimentary
understanding and an ability to figure out things. And thank goodness I
was made to tackle what was an impossible mountain for me to climb.
Same can be said for language skills, geography, and any number of
subjects that are difficult for some, easier for others. There's the
lucky few that breezes through them all. :-)
Seanette Blaylock
to say about Re: Wakakirri and a rant!:
>Every kid can make a note of some sort. Every kid can keep some kind of
>time. It doesn't have to be exact, but it certainly sounds better, the
>more practice you put in to achieve unity. Isn't that what schooling's
>all about? Practice? We had some tone deaf kids in our choir, but they
>were just as valuable to us as the sweet voices (possibly more). The
>wonderful sensation of singing in unity with a good, practiced choir is
>one that shouldn't be denied any child and it's such a pity that poor
>teacher training has caused generations of children to lose the chance
>of experiencing it.
There ARE people (such as me) with zero musical ability at all. Sorry
to burst your bubble on that one, but I do exist and have that lack of
ability. Under the "reasoning" of this thread, I should have a choice
between being ridiculed for lack of ability or being punished for not
inflicting said lack on those around me.
Karen C - California
> Seanette Blaylock wrote:
>
>> So what happens to kids with no musical ability? Punishment for that
>> involuntary lack?
>
>
> With uncommon exception, children can be taught to sing and keep time
> with music. It seems to be an innate ability, like knowing how to chew
> gum. :-)
Our neighbors were very active in the German singing society. Their
daughter couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. She had good rhythm and was
very enthusiastic, but on-key eluded her.
--
Karen C - California
Finished 8/16/05 - Be Sure to Pay the Pipers
WIP: 50th Anniversary sampler for aunt/uncle, July birthstone,
Flowers of Hawaii (Jeanette Crews) for ME!!!
LTR: Fireman's Prayer (#2), Amid Amish Life, Angel of Autumn,
Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe
See my designs exclusively at TyWolfeDesigns.com
Paralegal - Writer - Editor - Researcher
http://hometown.aol.com/kmc528/KMC.html
blogging at http://journals.aol.com/kmc528/Lifeasweknowit/
Karen C - California
> We had some tone deaf kids in our choir, but they
> were just as valuable to us as the sweet voices (possibly more).
As the person who was required to sit next to Tone Deaf Debbie (because
I was the only one she didn't throw off key -- I simply got my note from
the perfect-pitch-blessed bass behind me), I can say that her biggest
value to our choir was her willingness to do the scut work. If someone
spilled something on a choir gown, it went home with her to be washed
and ironed; she was our diligent librarian; she did a lot of stuff that
earned her the right to squawk along with those of us who were better
singers.
Trish Brown
> Trish Brown <kawb...@ozemail.com.au> had some very interesting things
> to say about Re: Wakakirri and a rant!:
>
>
>>Every kid can make a note of some sort. Every kid can keep some kind of
>>time. It doesn't have to be exact, but it certainly sounds better, the
>>more practice you put in to achieve unity. Isn't that what schooling's
>>all about? Practice? We had some tone deaf kids in our choir, but they
>>were just as valuable to us as the sweet voices (possibly more). The
>>wonderful sensation of singing in unity with a good, practiced choir is
>>one that shouldn't be denied any child and it's such a pity that poor
>>teacher training has caused generations of children to lose the chance
>>of experiencing it.
>
>
> There ARE people (such as me) with zero musical ability at all. Sorry
> to burst your bubble on that one, but I do exist and have that lack of
> ability. Under the "reasoning" of this thread, I should have a choice
> between being ridiculed for lack of ability or being punished for not
> inflicting said lack on those around me.
>
Not at all! If you'd been in my Primary school class, you'd have been
strongly encouraged to join in and *no one* would have been permitted to
ridicule you in any way! Your contribution *whatever* it amounted to
would have been equally as valuable as the most skilled class member.
That's a basic tenet of good teaching.
As Dianne said, what if it'd been maths you were bad at? No one would
have allowed you to lapse and grow remote there. As Dianne also said,
music is part of your culture! The songs and rhymes, hymns and anthems
we're exposed to all add up to an important aspect of who we are. I was
sung to as a child and I sang to my kids. Now, they sing to me! (Oh, if
you could only hear my Matty singing 'Au Fond Du Temple Saint' - he's
just lovely!) Pitch, tone and rhythm have to be learnt, they're not
entirely inherent. One of the ways in which I've helped my kids achieve
good pitch is by singing to them in the bath - you get a great acoustic
and you can tell if you're off-pitch because you begin to hear beats in
the note.
A TV show about 'Broadway' last night had me warbling away all the dear
old songs from the first War - looking forward to the next show about
the Depression Years and then the one about WWII!!! My Nanna sang me the
songs of WWI and Mum and Dad were always singing the ones from WWII. I
sang the Vietnam Era ones on my own. But see? The music reflects the
history, the culture. The evolution of Jazz is a most fascinating study
and leads directly into Rhythm and Blues and Rock'n'Roll and wherever
else you want to follow it. No one says we must all be students at this
level, but what a shame to have had no exposure and no practice at it!
I'm sorry you didn't have a better teacher when you were little! You'd
have had so much fun being encouraged to find what you *could* do
instead of being allowed to believe you couldn't do anything! (NB.
*Anyone* can bang a cymbal or tingle a triangle... Oftentimes, it's the
tone-dear or pitch-free who do best at percussion)
Anyway, now that I've mentioned 'Broadway', I must ask a question in
case anyone knows what I'm on about. Does anyone know of a video or DVD
recording of Busby Berkeley's 'Gold Diggers of 1933'? It contains the
first film rendition of 'We're in the Money' as well as a *really*
excellent production number called 'Remember My Forgotten Man'. I saw a
glimpse of this item once on a Hollywood documentary a million years ago
and have sought for it ever since. It featured a chorus line
representing the long queues at the soup kitchens and then the same men
being enlisted into the army. 'Remember my forgotten man, they put a
rifle in his hand, they sent him far way without a place to stay...'
I'd love to see that again! It was great!
Karen C - California
>
> There ARE people (such as me) with zero musical ability at all. Sorry
> to burst your bubble on that one, but I do exist and have that lack of
> ability. Under the "reasoning" of this thread, I should have a choice
> between being ridiculed for lack of ability or being punished for not
> inflicting said lack on those around me.
>
How much training did you have with which to develop musical ability? I
didn't sound like Beverly Sills the first time I opened my mouth,
either. It took work, and a tonsillectomy, to turn me into a
coloratura. And then it took more work to add that High C to my
repertoire. I didn't just wake up with it one day.
I betcha between Dianne and me, we could at least train you to play
"Mary had a little lamb" on the piano and sing it recognizably, too. Is
she going to turn you into a concert pianist? No; even I wasn't able to
reach that level, and I started practicing when I was a lot younger than
you. Am I going to make you Kiri Te Kanawa? No; you'll probably sound
more like Weird Al or the guy on my Spike Jones records. But if we sat
you in front of the piano and made you learn, you'd develop some musical
skills. Actually, you listen to enough music (the good stuff which
actually has melody and harmony, not rap or discordant noise) that I bet
you have more musical ability than you give yourself credit for. And if
not, we'll bury you deep within the alto section where no one in the
audience will hear you anyway. :)
Which reminds me -- I have a friend coming up in January for a
barbershop quartet singing competition, which will probably result in
nightly gatherings in my living room of men who want to sing. Would
someone please remind me to call the piano tuner (after Rainy Season
starts, so it doesn't go out of tune when the weather changes)? I need
to have a couple of strings re-pinned, too, since several keys play a
very painful "chord" instead of a single note.
Karen C - California
> Anyway, now that I've mentioned 'Broadway', I must ask a question in
> case anyone knows what I'm on about. Does anyone know of a video or DVD
> recording of Busby Berkeley's 'Gold Diggers of 1933'? It contains the
> first film rendition of 'We're in the Money' as well as a *really*
> excellent production number called 'Remember My Forgotten Man'. I saw a
> glimpse of this item once on a Hollywood documentary a million years ago
> and have sought for it ever since. It featured a chorus line
> representing the long queues at the soup kitchens and then the same men
> being enlisted into the army. 'Remember my forgotten man, they put a
> rifle in his hand, they sent him far way without a place to stay...'
>
> I'd love to see that again! It was great!
>
IMDB.com will tell you whether any movie is available on DVD. It
appears that it is currently available only in US VHS.
Karen C - California
> I'm sorry you didn't have a better teacher when you were little! You'd
> have had so much fun being encouraged to find what you *could* do
> instead of being allowed to believe you couldn't do anything! (NB.
> *Anyone* can bang a cymbal or tingle a triangle... Oftentimes, it's the
> tone-dear or pitch-free who do best at percussion)
I'll second that. And Seanette *does* have rhythm. Perhaps I'll buy
her a drum for Christmas to prove she can play a musical instrument.
I've also found that those who cannot sing can do a decent job on
fixed-pitch instruments (piano, glockenspiel, xylophone, handbells),
being not so much "tone-deaf" as vocal-pitch-impaired (haven't learned
to manipulate the vocal cords to go up and down).
Problem is, here in California, we have basically eradicated arts of all
sorts from the public schools as a cost-saving measure. My friend May
is a music teacher and has some choice things to say on that subject
(which I can sum up for you succinctly as "$#%&!!"). So, we have an
entire generation of children growing up who've never heard any "music"
other than Rap, or seen any "art" except gang graffiti which, to sum up
one of May's term papers, is NOT a good thing.
Manth
<seanette.spam...@impulse.net> wrote:
>Manth <ma...@ozemail.com.au> had some very interesting things to say
>about Re: Wakakirri and a rant!:
>
>>>AND... it appears to be OK if kids don't want
>>>to sing in full voice, but prefer to mouth the words and give some kind
>>>of smirking, simpering performance that leaves one wondering 'Whatever
>>>happened to the exuberance of childhood'?
>>Kids are expected to sing, properly, in music lessons at school. If
>>you're not prepared to sing and do it right, you can sit in a
>>classroom with a teacher and write out lists of terribly boring (but
>>practical) stuff like your weekly Spelling Words, or times tables,
>>over and over again. Given the choice of an hour of proper singing or
>>an hour of writing tables, most kids opt for singing!
>
>So what happens to kids with no musical ability? Punishment for that
>involuntary lack?
No - if you really can't sing, but sit in the class and *try* (softly)
without deliberately trying to muck up, that's fine. It's the ones
who deliberately don't actually attempt to sing, who make a fuss and
disturb the others with their jokes, laughter, catcalls, silly dances
*instead* of paying attention who get punished.
It's a primary school class. No-one is expected to be a Diva
Extraordinaire, just to do their best.
Manth
Manth
<kawb...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>I think her tenet must
>have been 'every child can learn anything so long as his teacher remains
>indefatigable'.
At our school, the informal motto is 'Every child can learn, just not
on the same day and in the same way'.
Manth
Trish Brown
> Trish Brown wrote:
>
>> Anyway, now that I've mentioned 'Broadway', I must ask a question in
>> case anyone knows what I'm on about. Does anyone know of a video or
>> DVD recording of Busby Berkeley's 'Gold Diggers of 1933'? It contains
>> the first film rendition of 'We're in the Money' as well as a *really*
>> excellent production number called 'Remember My Forgotten Man'. I saw
>> a glimpse of this item once on a Hollywood documentary a million years
>> ago and have sought for it ever since. It featured a chorus line
>> representing the long queues at the soup kitchens and then the same
>> men being enlisted into the army. 'Remember my forgotten man, they put
>> a rifle in his hand, they sent him far way without a place to stay...'
>>
>> I'd love to see that again! It was great!
>>
>
> IMDB.com will tell you whether any movie is available on DVD. It
> appears that it is currently available only in US VHS.
>
>
happen! After all those old movies they colourised... =:-0
Dianne Lewandowski
> daughter couldn't carry a tune in a bucket. She had good rhythm and was
> very enthusiastic, but on-key eluded her.
We had a neighbor who went on to college to study music and theatre.
She was determined to make singing her "career". One summer college
break, her singing wafted across the back yards. Lordy, it was like the
finest crystal. I was mesmorized. Then, all of a sudden it went
terribly bad . . . like fingernails scratching on a blackboard. She'd
start the piece again and in due time, it went very badly.
However, she had NO CLUE. She thought all of it was beautiful.
No, not everyone can sing on key. True tone-deafness is exceedingly
rare. These individuals also speak in a monotone. But many more have a
difficult time hearing the right pitch and getting their vocal chords to
cooperate.
I'm very sorry Seanette had a difficult time with music in school. She
must have had an extremely incompetent and insensitive teacher.
Dianne Lewandowski
> In the good old days long ago before I became profoundly deaf, a then
> very popular singer was one Nana Mouskouri, who is still around lo
> these many long years later. She has, or had, a really beautiful
> voice but every so often she'd drop off the note quite bizarrely. Or
> was it just me?
>
> Mique
I've heard well-trained voices do this (drop a single note, sing a
little flat or sharp, then get back on track).
What I'm talking about is *really* staying off track. So badly it made
your teeth curl. Funny part was, when she was on note, it was one of
the most beautiful voices I've ever heard.
I'm sorry you are deaf. I'm such an aural person, I can't imagine what
it must be like not to hear. Took a lovely six-mile bike trip along my
usual daily trail and listened to the red-eyed vireos, the chickadees
(which I mimic and whistle back), and all the other sounds of the
forest. I often think how much I would mourn the loss of all these
gorgeous sounds that most people don't even realize are there. I've
been so keenly aware of them lately (just found this new path), that
I've been trying to find adjectives to describe the moments that differ
so much from day to day.
Trish Brown
>
> We had a neighbor who went on to college to study music and theatre. She
> was determined to make singing her "career". One summer college break,
> her singing wafted across the back yards. Lordy, it was like the finest
> crystal. I was mesmorized. Then, all of a sudden it went terribly bad
> . . . like fingernails scratching on a blackboard. She'd start the
> piece again and in due time, it went very badly.
>
> However, she had NO CLUE. She thought all of it was beautiful.
>
> No, not everyone can sing on key. True tone-deafness is exceedingly
> rare. These individuals also speak in a monotone. But many more have a
> difficult time hearing the right pitch and getting their vocal chords to
> cooperate.
>
> I'm very sorry Seanette had a difficult time with music in school. She
> must have had an extremely incompetent and insensitive teacher.
>
> Dianne
(Chuckle) This is the way Cecilia Bartoli affects me. Sometimes, she's
spotton, but at others her voice seems to suddenly develop a sort of
stridor which puts it right into that fingernails on a blackboard
category. I can't say I've ever heard the sliding pitch thing happen,
though.
I will say that José Carreras seems to have a serious pitching problem
to my ear and I can't for the life of me think why he's so popular! Even
*I* can hear his dreadful off-pitch singing! DS does have perfect pitch
and he's really annoying - points out every time a singer slides off a
note and moans about it as if they'd committed seventeen Deadly sins at
once! Hnnnh!
I hope this is not an offensive question but I have to ask it! ;-D
I have noticed that IME, everyone who is tone deaf really seems to have
an affinity with trad jazz. It's almost as if the amorphous nature of
such music gives them something they can moan along to without sticking
out too much. Does anyone else find that? NB. My cousin, AnneMaree, has
the most *appalling* singing voice - she sounds as if she's dying a slow
death of asphyxiation and emitting her dying breath through a hole in
the top of her head! She can't stand most kinds of music, but really
loves jazz concerts, the more way-out, the better. She'll groove along
and moan away in time and generally enjoy herself wildly...
And then, there's Mrs Delaney, our school music teacher, who said
(really!) 'Beat-hovven', 'Moe-zart' and 'Choppin'. She also had a voice
like a crosscut saw and she loved nothing more than moaning away to the
most *execrable* free-form jazz music you could imagine!
This often intrigues me and is something I'd love to hear explained by
greater minds than my own...
Trish Brown
> In the good old days long ago before I became profoundly deaf, a then
> very popular singer was one Nana Mouskouri, who is still around lo
> these many long years later. She has, or had, a really beautiful
> voice but every so often she'd drop off the note quite bizarrely. Or
> was it just me?
>
> Mique
Yes. I know what you mean. I remember once waiting for her to sing 'The
White Rose' on a TV concert and being most disappointed when she had a
few major bloopers in the middle of it. I think the crystal purity of
her voice really highlighted the occasions when she blooped, don't you?
Maybe she just had the 'flu and was suffering a phlegmatic overload???
Trish Brown
> I've heard well-trained voices do this (drop a single note, sing a
> little flat or sharp, then get back on track).
>
> What I'm talking about is *really* staying off track. So badly it made
> your teeth curl. Funny part was, when she was on note, it was one of
> the most beautiful voices I've ever heard.
Maybe she sang mechanically with more iron vocal control and less
auditory processing? (ie. didn't listen to herself) Some singers can't
hear what they're singing when loudly accompanied or when in a room with
an odd acoustic (Robin Gibb of the BeeGees springs to mind - hence the
finger plugged religiously into his ear while he sang).
It gets harder when your voice is amplified away from where you are.
When I sing in Church, I often lose track of my own voice in the general
noise of the amplifier (it's pointed away from me and down toward the
congregation) and usually move closer to DS to make sure I'm still
pitching correctly. You can always count on good ol' paragon DS to have
the right pitch. You can also count on 'im to grimace at you if *you've*
lost it! Little toad!
>
> I'm sorry you are deaf. I'm such an aural person, I can't imagine what
> it must be like not to hear. Took a lovely six-mile bike trip along my
> usual daily trail and listened to the red-eyed vireos, the chickadees
> (which I mimic and whistle back), and all the other sounds of the
> forest. I often think how much I would mourn the loss of all these
> gorgeous sounds that most people don't even realize are there. I've
> been so keenly aware of them lately (just found this new path), that
> I've been trying to find adjectives to describe the moments that differ
> so much from day to day.
>
> Dianne
>
Yeah. Deafness is the most isolating problem! A blind person has lost a
great deal, but he hasn't lost community with other people. A deaf
person misses so much in the way of communication and the little things,
like bird song and children's voices and rain on the roof...
Our Miquel, would you say the cochlear implant has 'fixed' your problem
or only put a band-aid on it? Do you feel any differently about it now
you've had it for quite a while? Do they offer any improvements to you
as newer technologies come available?
Trish Brown
> It's much more than a band-aid, Trish. For me, and for thousands of
> young children who would otherwise be consigned to the social
> purgatory of sign language (speaking fluently only to others with
> their disability or with enough motivation to take the trouble to
> learn sign language), it means something very close to a normal life.
> For profoundly deaf people, hearing aids simply don't cut it.
No. Dad *hated* his hearing aids! Sometimes, his ears would swell up
like sausages on either side of his head and no hearing aid in the world
was going to fit in there. He would just park himself in a corner
somewhere and wait for the swelling to go down. He couldn't work,
couldn't hold a conversation, couldn't do much at all! The final straw
was when he lost his larynx as well. You have no idea!
When he died, the nursing staff removed his hearing aids and his Cooper
Rand (speaking device) and put them in a box. Mum was *so* grateful to
see him without the filthy things at last! So was I!
>
> There are improvements happening all the time, and Cochlear has just
> released a new model which is a quantum leap from the one I have,
> although they are not quite yet capable of handling music well. It
> won't be long before the whole process is implantable and that will be
> a major gain.
Wow! Wow! Will that sort of thing be available to you? Will it mean a
new implant (ie remove the current one)? Think of it, Miquel! I'll send
you some of DH's AC/DC CDs! LOLOLOLOLOL! (NB. Did you see the doco on
the Vietnam minefields the other night? Holy Dooley! *What* a stuff-up
*that* was!!!)
>
> Don't listen to the deaf community ratbags who badmouth cochlear
> implants. They are barking mad.
>
> Mique
Pfffttt! I've been involved with deaf kids struggling to speak and make
themselves understood. Fancy consigning a child to a lifetime of being a
fringe-dweller just because you hadn't the testicular implants to call a
spade a spade and do what's right? I can't fathom that line of thought
at *all*! I can't *wait* to hear when the technology will be available
to make cochlear implants that mimic natural hearing. That will be a
red-letter day!
geo...@yahoo.com
This is very interesting. I was introduced to choir singing in the fifth
grade after we had moved and I was in a new school. Choir was mandatory and
teh first day the class was split up by soprano, alto, tenor and bass by
the teacher. She would play notes on the piano and yo would then sing them.
She would not look at you and had no idea who was singing. I found that if
I touched the piano while she played, I would get the vibrations from the
piano and would then be able to sing the notes. To my utter embarasement, I
was a soprano and when we were split up by voice, I was the only boy in a
gaggle of girls. Terrible fate in the fifth grade, but heaven when I was in
the eigth grade. My voice finally changed in the tenth grade and I went
from soprano to bass in a period of days. Starting in the seventh grade we
also had orchestra. I has started playing piano when I was five and decided
to learn trumpet. I switched to trombone because no one else would play
that instrument. If you are tone deaf, trombone is definately not for you.
Benifits of playing the trombone are that you sit next to the cello section
and I was head over heels for a cellist.
We always played music for our children and when the grandchildren were
born I bought a three cd set of nursery rymes done by the Nashville
childrens choir. Cd's were known as red, blue and purple. My grandchildren
would get into the car and begin fighting over which cd they wanted to
hear. A few years of hearing the same shildrens songs over and over again
can drive you nuts. But it was worth it to hear them sing along.
George
--
There is no such thing as being beneath one's dignity to put in an honests
day's work. Work *is* what gives us our dignity, as well as our sense of
self-worth. "Mishna 2(a)"
Karen C - California
> usually move closer to DS to make sure I'm still
> pitching correctly. You can always count on good ol' paragon DS to have
> the right pitch. You can also count on 'im to grimace at you if *you've*
> lost it! Little toad!
Ah, but there's a place in the world for people with perfect pitch ...
preferably standing behind me while I'm forced to sit next to Tone Deaf
Debbie. I couldn't hear any of the other sopranos over her supremely
enthusiastic performance, but had my very own pitch pipe to lean forward
and hum directly in my ear in response to panicked hand signals.
Karen C - California
> Pfffttt! I've been involved with deaf kids struggling to speak and make
> themselves understood. Fancy consigning a child to a lifetime of being a
> fringe-dweller just because you hadn't the testicular implants to call a
> spade a spade and do what's right? I can't fathom that line of thought
> at *all*!
I'm with you. It takes the "I'm perfect; YOU'RE the one that's weird"
rationale to new heights. It's one thing to tell a child that it's OK
to be different (whether by ability or color), but something else
entirely to tell the child he/she can never associate outside the small
community of identical people. I suspect it has something to do with
parents' fear (also seen in immigrant communities) that if the child
learns the dominant language and gets a job better than sweeping floors,
the child will think he/she is better than their parents and not want to
associate with the lower classes.
I have a friend who is the deaf mother of a hearing child. She admits
that there are times when his hearing comes in handy (like using the
phone); he admits there are times her special talents come in handy
(when background noise in a TV show drowns out the dialogue, and she can
read lips to tell him what was said). For a while, I had a neighbor
given to loud music till 4 AM; when I complained about being kept awake
half the night, my friend just giggled and asked was I jealous that she
could take out her hearing aids and sleep right through loud parties?
Yes, in fact, I was!
Trish Brown
<snip>
> when I complained about being kept awake
> half the night, my friend just giggled and asked was I jealous that she
> could take out her hearing aids and sleep right through loud parties?
> Yes, in fact, I was!
>
One of the things that pained Dad the absolute *most* was when people
told him either to turn his hearing aid up, or take it out if a noise
was bothering him.
Certain high frequencies can be utter agony to a hearing aid wearer and
these frequencies can often be found in the faulty PA systems found in
NSW Bowling Clubs (one of which my Dad was a founding member). When the
PA shrieked, Dad would experience it like gimlets in his ears and rush
to turn it off. His great mates (an exceptionally sensitive lot of
'funny old coves') thought it hilarious and would say 'Oh Frank, take
yer bloody hearin' aid off then!' They had no idea what a b*ast*rd of a
thing it was they were doing.
Trish Brown
<snip>
>
> But I must confess that I take a great deal of perverse pleasure
> watching these people rushing headlong into their own deafness
> themselves by blasting their audio nerve cells to extinction with
> their outrageously loud music and other idiotic behaviour. What goes
> around comes around, and they'll get no sympathy from me.
>
> I was told by an audiologist not long ago that the average hearing
> acuity of the average 25 year old today is about the same as that of
> the average 50 year old 25 years ago.
>
> Mique
Well, then, would you mind conveying that message to my *gormless* DH,
who insists on listening to the execrable noise he calls 'music' so
loudly that it's deafening to the rest of us - even when he's wearing
*headphones*?
He tells me he likes to experience the 'bass punch' or some such
ridiculous term. Yeah. Right. As you say, 'what goes around comes
around' and you can't get him to listen to the words 'nerve deafness' to
save your life! (NB. For anyone who doesn't know: 'Nerve deafness' or
sensorineural hearing loss is where the actual nerve pathways are
damaged and *hearing aids won't help you* to hear once that happens to you).
Anyway, in your other post you wrote:
"They were wrong to suggest that the operation was not dealt with
comprehensively in the official histories, or that there had been some
sort of cover up. Half of the volume of the official history entitled
"On the Offensive" deals with the fence and the minefield in fine
detail, concluding that the whole idea was a disaster - and that it had
been predicted to become a disaster before the first mine was laid.
But, no doubt it seemed like a good idea at the time. :-(
Lots of hard lessons were learnt in that war."
I think the main idea was that Brig. Graham sowed his minefield and
everyone knew it was a no-goer, including the Brass, *but no one stopped
him*. Our blokes paid for that.
(They showed actual photos of blown-up blokes in field hospitals - Holy
Narelle! I've *never* seen injuries like those! There wasn't *any*thing
left to sew together - just mush!)
Have you been following the VP day set of docos on the ABC and SBS?
We've been busily watching those! I was amazed to see actual footage of
the Oz engineers at work in Sarawak (me Dad was there - that's where he
lost his hearing!). I was less than impressed to hear yet again that the
Borneo operations were regarded as technically unecessary by MacArthur
and that our troops were pretty much 'wasted' there. AFAIC, *any* thing
that reduced or impaired enemy operations Mattered. If the Japanese had
got those oil-fields, we'd have had that much more effort to spend in
wearing them down.
Do you remember Andrea? (On radio when I was growing up - 'Hello Mums
and Dads') She was in Singapore when it fell and was captured along with
all the other British colonials there. She spent the war in Changi and
her tales of what went on there are absolutely fascinating! I have her
book 'Darlings, I've Had a Ball', but it's in tatters, I've read it so
much. Anyway, they showed footage of the women and children in the camps
and I thought of Andrea's stories of courage and subterfuge and sorrow...
And all these tales of war *still* don't give us pause to stop and find
another way to sort it all out! Why is 'A Bomb' the first alternative
when it comes to international conflict? Sigh.