Shedding-Dr.proctor
davi...@my-dejanews.com
started using dr.lee 5% a little over a year ago and propecia 11months ago. I
switched to xandrox last october. Right after starting Propecia, my hairloss
went down to ZERO and life was really great, because I still had only
suffered from a receding hairline+temples. Then 2.5 months after starting
propecia Hell started. I lost very much hair everyday and life really sucked,
I was still 19. The horrible shedding lasted about 2.5 months. The thing is
that after the 2.5 months of horrible shedding no one really knew that I was
losing hair, because I still had so much hair left just a little bit thinner.
Life was really good again and I was dreaming of the months to come because
of all the regrowth I would have. But regrowth has never really started I'm
seeing hair at my hairline and temples, but the hair is much thinner now then
when I lost it. I started using 12.5%xandrox in the begining of feb. The time
between the end of the shedding (mid oct) til now had been ok, no more loss
and no regrowth. I only used it for my hairline. Time went by and I have now
been using propecia for 11months and I'm worse of now than when I started
propecia. I have only had one shedding period Since starting the
12.5%xandrox, my hairline + temples have receded even more. Life sucks again.
I think I may be losing the battle. Can anyone help me?
David
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
HairMan2001:A_Hair_Odyssey@pacifier.com
change my mind.
Peter H. Proctor
>From: davi...@my-dejanews.com
>Subject: Shedding-Dr.proctor
>Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:24:31 GMT
>Hi I'm 20years old, I think I started to lose hair when I was about 18. I
>started using dr.lee 5% a little over a year ago and propecia 11months ago. I
>switched to xandrox last october. Right after starting Propecia, my hairloss
>went down to ZERO and life was really great, because I still had only
>suffered from a receding hairline+temples.
Because hair spends 2-4 months in the loss phase before shedding, early
deceases of loss would only be of hair that was already about to fall
ouut anyway, This it doesn't mean much. Remeber, what controls when hair
sheds is the groth-resting pahase trasition, which happens long befre the
hair falls out.
Then 2.5 months after starting>propecia Hell started. I lost very much hair
everyday and life really sucked, I was still 19. The horrible shedding lasted
about 2.5 months. The thing is>that after the 2.5 months of horrible shedding
no one really knew that I was>losing hair, because I still had so much hair
left just a little bit thinner.
Most likely, it was growing in as fast as it was falling out.
>Life was really good again and I was dreaming
of the months to come because>of all the regrowth I would have. But regrowth
has never really started I'm>seeing hair at my hairline and temples, but the
hair is much thinner now then>when I lost it. I started using 12.5%xandrox in
the begining of feb. The time>between the end of the shedding (mid oct) til
now had been ok, no more loss>and no regrowth. I only used it for my hairline.
Time went by and I have now>been using propecia for 11months and I'm worse of
now than when I started>propecia. I have only had one shedding period Since
starting the>12.5%xandrox, my hairline + temples have receded even more. Life
sucks again.>I think I may be losing the battle. Can anyone help me?
You do not mention symptoms of hyperandrogenictiy such as acne or
increased skin oiliness. So I doubt you are reperiencing an exaggerated
reflex hyperandrogenic response to finasteride, tho this might be possible.
You may be in a fulminant phase of balding. Sometimes this happens
early on. It is an exception to the general rule that balding persons do not
shed at a faster rate than non-balding persons. This can be very
frustrating to treat in the short run. It may have to burn itself out, but
once it does, there is a good chance that you can get some reversal on
further medical treatment.
Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
http://www.drproctor.com
clark...@my-dejanews.com
>
> >Hi I'm 20years old, I think I started to lose hair when I was about 18. I
> >started using dr.lee 5% a little over a year ago and propecia 11months ago. I
> >switched to xandrox last october. Right after starting Propecia, my hairloss
> >went down to ZERO and life was really great, because I still had only
> >suffered from a receding hairline+temples.
>
second shedding phase about a fortnight ago. I have posted here before - the
last update was just before Christmas, at which time a second growth phase was
getting under way. Briefly the story so far goes as follows:
11.05.98 Commenced use of Propecia & 5% Regaine
11.06.98 Vellus growth visible around hairline
11.07.98 Regrowth lengthening
11.08.98 Changed down to 2% strength Regaine; improved coverage apparent now
11.09.98 Discontinued Regaine; shedding hairs @1" long, tapered both ends
11.10.98 -
11.11.98 Coverage diminished substantially
11.12.98 Second wave of vellus growth visible
11.01.99 Vellus continues to lengthen
11.02.99 Stopped lengthening
11.03.99 Second bout of shedding (shorter hairs first then longer ones)
11.04.99 Shedding totally ceased; improved coverage gone.
At this point I have some vellus hair evident around the hairline, but
nothing that looks like the equivalent of the hairs which were shed, which
were tapered at each end, but which were coloured (more noticeably at the
thickest point) and of close to normal diameter. I have searched the
alt.baldspot archive but have been unable to find reference to whether the
loss of tapered hairs is usual, though I imagine that since eyebrows and
similar "self-regulating" bodyhairs are thickest at the mid-point,it would
be..? Right now I have my doubts that I am even going to get regrowth to the
extent that will enable me to keep what I've got. I did imagine though that
seeing as I've only finished shedding a fortnight ago, I had another month or
two to wait before the next cycle of hairs to appear. Dr P's response to the
originator of this thread (see below) would seem to suggest otherwise. Should
regrowth follow directly on from completion of shedding or is there usually a
delay?
> Because hair spends 2-4 months in the loss phase before shedding,
early
> deceases of loss would only be of hair that was already about to fall
> ouut anyway, This it doesn't mean much. Remeber, what controls when hair
> sheds is the groth-resting pahase trasition, which happens long befre the
> hair falls out.
>
> Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
> http://www.drproctor.com
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Tim
Hit a shed phase on Propecia at 3 months. The shed last for a month and a
half. The result was that on the top of my head where it had been ok I lost
way too much hair. My scalp is clearly visible through my hair on top now.
All this in 4 months or so. I had the classic acne and oily face. Worst of
all at 4 months I joined the "2%" who suffered "certain sexual side
effects". It was bad getting worse.
My decision was easy - I got off the drug. Since Merck never said shedding
was possible I was suspicious. Since I had no decent diagnosis for the
increase in loss I was scared. I decided not to gamble any further. I have
not seen any regrowth since then (about a month off the drug). I can say
that the sexual side effects are gone (whew!). No shedding (whew!!).
Because the success stories seem to out number the shedding horror stories I
am not sure what any person should do as far as deciding to start treatment.
I know this... there are varying degrees of hair loss out there. A person
with very thick hair with receding might not notice a shed as much. The
same for someone with advance MPB might not notice a shed. As for me I have
fine hair that is not all that thick. I think I shed as much as most do but
it was very visible. I would think about that before starting. Another
peice of advise would be to have a derm do some baseline hair counts so you
can do math instead of just looking in the mirror. That can drive you nuts.
All in all, the whole experience with the drug was a disaster for me. I am
not suprised that people are reluctant to purchase Propecia. I think that,
like me, alot of people start on it but do not stick with it. Even my derm
got off it after 3 months (joined the 2% sexual side effect group). I wish
Merck would spill the beans on some of this. I think they are holding back
at least some information.
good luck
<"HairMan2001:A_Hair_Odyssey"@pacifier.com> wrote in message
news:3714B96B...@pacifier.com...
> Just when I get ready to use proscar stories like this
> change my mind.
>
>
>
> davi...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > Hi I'm 20years old, I think I started to lose hair when I was about 18.
I
> > started using dr.lee 5% a little over a year ago and propecia 11months
ago. I
> > switched to xandrox last october. Right after starting Propecia, my
hairloss
> > went down to ZERO and life was really great, because I still had only
> > suffered from a receding hairline+temples. Then 2.5 months after
starting
> > propecia Hell started. I lost very much hair everyday and life really
sucked,
> > I was still 19. The horrible shedding lasted about 2.5 months. The thing
is
> > that after the 2.5 months of horrible shedding no one really knew that I
was
> > losing hair, because I still had so much hair left just a little bit
thinner.
> > Life was really good again and I was dreaming of the months to come
because
> > of all the regrowth I would have. But regrowth has never really started
I'm
> > seeing hair at my hairline and temples, but the hair is much thinner now
then
> > when I lost it. I started using 12.5%xandrox in the begining of feb. The
time
> > between the end of the shedding (mid oct) til now had been ok, no more
loss
> > and no regrowth. I only used it for my hairline. Time went by and I have
now
> > been using propecia for 11months and I'm worse of now than when I
started
> > propecia. I have only had one shedding period Since starting the
> > 12.5%xandrox, my hairline + temples have receded even more. Life sucks
again.
> > I think I may be losing the battle. Can anyone help me?
> >
> > David
Peter H. Proctor
>From: clark...@my-dejanews.com
>Subject: Re: Shedding-Dr.proctor
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:33:50 GMT
>At this point I have some vellus hair evident around the hairline, but
>nothing that looks like the equivalent of the hairs which were shed, which
>were tapered at each end, but which were coloured (more noticeably at the
>thickest point) and of close to normal diameter. I have searched the
>alt.baldspot archive but have been unable to find reference to whether the
>loss of tapered hairs is usual, though I imagine that since eyebrows and
>similar "self-regulating" bodyhairs are thickest at the mid-point,it would
>be..?
Tapered hairs are not usual on the scalp with the exception of
miniaturization of still growing hairs and its converse, coarsening of
miniaturized hairs under medical treatment. What this sounds like is that
you are losing hairs that coarsened under treatment. They may have just
reached the end of their growth cycle.
Right now I have my doubts that I
am even going to get regrowth to the>extent that will enable me to keep what
I've got. I did imagine though that>seeing as I've only finished shedding a
fortnight ago, I had another month or>two to wait before the next cycle of
hairs to appear. Dr P's response to the>originator of this thread (see below)
would seem to suggest otherwise. Should>regrowth follow directly on from
completion of shedding or is there usually a>delay?
It depends. And I wish I could give you a better answer.
Maybe this will help: Repeated waves of growth and loss someetimes do happen
in medical treatment. This is because hair growth often gets a bit
synchronized--- it starts to grow together, so it tends to go through the
hair cycle together.
The most common presentation of this is "crops" of fine hair which
grow and fall out, with progressive coarsening with each cycle. The
cropping is enhanced by the fact that medical treamtent decreases the length
of the loss phase, where vellous hair spends half or more of its ife-span.
This synchronization tends to damp out after a while.
Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
http://www.drproctor.com
>> Because hair spends 2-4 months in the loss phase before shedding,
>early
>> deceases of loss would only be of hair that was already about to fall
>> ouut anyway, This it doesn't mean much. Remeber, what controls when hair
>> sheds is the groth-resting pahase trasition, which happens long befre the
>> hair falls out.
>>
>> Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
>> http://www.drproctor.com
>>
>>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Peter H. Proctor
>From: "Tim" <t...@nowhere.com>
>Subject: Re: Shedding-Dr.proctor
>Date: Wed, 14 Apr 1999 17:54:40 -0500
>I am in my 30's, hair loss since 25 almost exclusively in the temple area.
>Hit a shed phase on Propecia at 3 months. The shed last for a month and a
>half. The result was that on the top of my head where it had been ok I lost
>way too much hair. My scalp is clearly visible through my hair on top now.
>All this in 4 months or so. I had the classic acne and oily face. Worst of
>all at 4 months I joined the "2%" who suffered "certain sexual side
>effects". It was bad getting worse.
>My decision was easy - I got off the drug. Since Merck never said shedding
>was possible I was suspicious. Since I had no decent diagnosis for the
>increase in loss I was scared. I decided not to gamble any further. I have
>not seen any regrowth since then (about a month off the drug). I can say
>that the sexual side effects are gone (whew!). No shedding (whew!!).
Most people do not experience a noticable shed of loss-phase
hair as follicles come out of dormancy under medical treatment. So it has
taken a while for it to become accepted. BTW, I claim bragging rights for
this discovery, since I saw it in a few patients in the mid-1980's ( one
advantage of treating a lot of people ). It has only been noted in the
Rogaine package insert in the last couple of years.
Most likely, unlike UpJohn ( who has a decade or two more
experience), Merck has not figured it out yet. This is possibly because
each of their investigators has only a hundred or so patients. A few
incidences of induced shedding would probably be dismissed as coicidental (
which is what I thought for a while ). This is particularly since it
occurs before 2-4 months, and thus only involves hair that was already in th
eloss-phase when treatment started. And everybody "knows" that nothing
affects loss phase hair<G>..
It gets even more complicated because there _may_ be a very few
additional cases in which reflex hyperandrogenicity has induced additional
hair loss with finasteride. This may happen indirectly in a way which
would probably not have shown up in the clinical trial.
E.g., tho I cannot currently point to a defined case, I can forsee a
stituation in which someone starts finasteride and experiences an induced
shed of loss phase hair. Remember, this is a good sign, because it
reflects follicles coming out of dormancy. They then stop finasteride
abruptly, exposing thier foillicles to the full fury<G> of reflex
hyperandrogenicity. This is why I advise tapering off this drug gradually,
to let things settle down a bit.
davi...@my-dejanews.com
ppro...@neosoft.com (Peter H. Proctor) wrote:
> In article <7f0cm7$nck$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> davi...@my-dejanews.com writes:
> >From: davi...@my-dejanews.com
> >Subject: Shedding-Dr.proctor
> >Date: Tue, 13 Apr 1999 21:24:31 GMT
>
> >started using dr.lee 5% a little over a year ago and propecia 11months ago. I
> >switched to xandrox last october. Right after starting Propecia, my hairloss
> >went down to ZERO and life was really great, because I still had only
> >suffered from a receding hairline+temples.
>
early
> deceases of loss would only be of hair that was already about to fall
> ouut anyway, This it doesn't mean much. Remeber, what controls when hair
> sheds is the groth-resting pahase trasition, which happens long befre the
> hair falls out.
>
> everyday and life really sucked, I was still 19. The horrible shedding lasted
> about 2.5 months. The thing is>that after the 2.5 months of horrible shedding
> no one really knew that I was>losing hair, because I still had so much hair
> left just a little bit thinner.
>
I don't think so, because I'm still in the beginning of losing hair and before
the shedding, I still had a lot of hair, so I don't think any hair grew in.
But the regrowth I'm seeing is much thinner and it grows very slow
> >Life was really good again and I was dreaming
> of the months to come because>of all the regrowth I would have. But regrowth
> has never really started I'm>seeing hair at my hairline and temples, but the
> hair is much thinner now then>when I lost it. I started using 12.5%xandrox in
> the begining of feb. The time>between the end of the shedding (mid oct) til
> now had been ok, no more loss>and no regrowth. I only used it for my
hairline.
> Time went by and I have now>been using propecia for 11months and I'm worse of
> now than when I started>propecia. I have only had one shedding period Since
> starting the>12.5%xandrox, my hairline + temples have receded even more. Life
> sucks again.>I think I may be losing the battle. Can anyone help me?
>
> You do not mention symptoms of hyperandrogenictiy such as acne or
> increased skin oiliness. So I doubt you are reperiencing an exaggerated
> reflex hyperandrogenic response to finasteride, tho this might be possible.
>
> You may be in a fulminant phase of balding. Sometimes this happens
> early on. It is an exception to the general rule that balding persons do not
> shed at a faster rate than non-balding persons. This can be very
> frustrating to treat in the short run. It may have to burn itself out,
but
> once it does, there is a good chance that you can get some reversal on
> further medical treatment.
>
> Peter H. Proctor, PhD, MD
> http://www.drproctor.com
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Peter H. Proctor
>From: davi...@my-dejanews.com
>Date: Thu, 15 Apr 1999 14:34:28 GMT
>In article <pproctor.17...@neosoft.com>,
> ppro...@neosoft.com (Peter H. Proctor) wrote:
>> In article <7f0cm7$nck$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com> davi...@my-dejanews.com writes:
>> >From: davi...@my-dejanews.com
>> >Subject: Shedding-Dr.proctor
>> Most likely, it was growing in as fast as it was falling out.
>I don't think so, because I'm still in the beginning of losing hair and before
>the shedding, I still had a lot of hair, so I don't think any hair grew in.
>But the regrowth I'm seeing is much thinner and it grows very slow
Sorry, it wan't clear to me that you were getting less dense. Damn
the ambiguity of these expressions, where "hair loss" has two meanings. One
of these is "hair shedding", which is generally normal in balding anyway.
The other meaning doesn't even mean hair loss per se, but really
hair-thinning due to failure to replace what you lose in the normal hair cycle.
snip...