2010 Prius III fuel efficiency hypermiling results
Neo
variety of hypermiling techniques on it since then and I have
purchased a Scan gauge II recently to refine those techniques.
On short 15 mile summer runs the MFD says that the Prius has gotten
about 81 mpg; however, the MFD FE computations tends to over estimated
the mpg by 3 to 5 mpg so the FE is probably closer to 75 mpg.
The overall mileage between tank fill ups (usually about 9 gallons or
every 500 miles or so) is much less.
On these extended distances, the 2010 Prius computed mpg has been as
low as 52 mpg and has high as 64 mpg with the average overall mpg to
be around 60 mpg.
Neo
After 578 miles, on my last fillup I computed that the
2010 Prius was getting 61.8 mpg (the MFD estimate was 65.5 mpg).
I finally got to checking the tire pressure
and the tire pressure was too low.
All four tires were at 30psi, Toyota specs the
front tires at 35psi and the rear tires at 33psi.
The OEM Yokohama tires are rated for a maximum
of 40psi. Many on PriusChat were saying they
had set the front tires at 40psi and the rear
tires at 38 psi. The 5psi over the the official
recommend psi level is suppose to increase
FE without causing problems in handling and
tire wear. I am a bit worried of setting the front
tires at their max psi ratting so I set all four
tires at 38psi.
I just installed a Scan Gauge II on the 2010 Prius. The
most useful gauge is the instantaneous MPG and the
RPM. The Instantaneous MPG shows a finer level of
detail than the Prius's MPG bar chart. It is useful to
monitor the RPM to see how hard the ICE is working.
The AVG (average mpg) seems to output the same
number as the Prius average MPG display.
With the scan gauge II and the higher
tire pressure, I hope to improve my FE
score will improve.
Neo
I've raised the tire pressures to 40psi front and
38 psi rear. Even with the scanguage II - it is still
difficult to get the car's computer FE display to
register higher than 67 mpg over 200 miles.
(my actual top mpg during the summer is
probably slightly under 64 mpg). I suspect that
with better LLR tires, Michelin E/S, the mpg
could be improved by 2 or 3 mpg.
Getting FE higher than 67 mpg appears to
depends on finding a better route and given
the traffic pattern. To optimize hypermiling
a commuting route need to have atleast two lanes in
one direction(so other car can past you),
have very few stop signs and traffic lights
(so you could maintain the vehicle's momentum
as long as possible), be relatively flat
over a long distance(so energy would not
have to be expended going uphill in
either direction) , have a smooth road
surface (to extend the coasting time of
the car), and allow the car to go between
35 mph to 45 mph without impeding
the general traffic flow( which is the optimum
speed for the maximum fuel efficiency of
the vehicle)..
Neo
The Scangauge II on my Prius has indicated
that I was able to achieve over 55 miles per gallon
by using Plus and Glide(P&G) cycle on a smooth road
with slightly hilly terrain. This technique involves briefly
accelerating (> 2000 rpm ) to achieve 45 mph and then
pulling back on the accelerattor so that the HSI is
in the middle of the ECO bar ( about 1200 RPM) and
allowing the speed of the Prius to decrease to around 33
mph before attempting to repeat the .P&G cycle all over again.
This technique feels strange at first since the results
are better than if one attempts to maintain
a constant lower speed (35 mph) and allow
the car to decrease its speed slightly(26 mpg) over
the same route. While the ICE burns
more gas during acceleration if the time of
the acceleration burst is kept very short it
could burn less gas than if the ICE is kept
running at a lower but uniform burn rate
over the same amount of time. The Prius
because it is very heavy maintains its speed
due to the kinetic/stored potential energy created
during the acceleration. The trick is to avoid reaching
a top speed that is faster than necessary. The top
speed should not be any faster that the speed
it would take so that if the Prius had to come
to a full stop that by letting go of the accelerator
one would have enough distance in front of the
Prius so it could to coast to a stop. This is
not practical in urban driving so a compromise
top speed needs to be selected for a given section
of a well know route. Knowing a good top speed
for a section of road is key to obtaining the best
FE results from a P&G cycle. Once the top desired speed has
been achived- the driver drops the speed of Prius ICE
to its most efficient mode which is indicated by being
at the center or slightly right of the center of the ECO
bar in the HSI indicator display OR the driver run the
Prius only on the electric motors by pressing the accelerator so
that HSI indicator bar is on the left side of the ECO.
2010 Prius III, Yokohama Avid S33 (40psi front, 38psi rear), Scangauge
II
current MPG (fcd) = 65 mpg
Overall computer MPG = 60 mpg, 5400 miles
Neo
Colder temperature and the switch over to the winter fuel
blend of gasoline has cause the fuel mileage on the last tank
of gas ( +9 gallons, 540 miles, 58 mpg ) tp drop about 2 mpg.
The sudden drop in temperature and bad weather has made
it more problematic to maintain the tire pressure at
42 psi front and 40 psi rear. A drop in just one or two psi
will lower the coasting ability of the Prius and cause the
MPG to drop - so I've increased the tire pressure to 44 psi
front and 42 psi rear. The drop from 70F-50F to 40F-30F
temperature range forces the ICE to burn gas to warm up
the engine/catelytic converter (or recharge the battery) more
often -- after a full warmup cycle the overall mileage(AVG)
on the Scangauge II drops by about 3 to 5 mpg.
I tested a sub-route with no stop signs or lights but
with many steep short hills verses my usually sub-route
with a few stop lights and only a few less steep long hills.
( Georgia/Norbeck vs Georgia/Muncaster/Redland)
When subtracting traffic factor (by driving when
nobody is using the road) it is easier to hypermile/coast
on roads that have fewer longer flatter grade hills
than if the roads have many shorter steeper grade
hills - if there are only a few stop lights that are
easily seen from a distance the driver can
alter the car's speed to "time" the car so it does
not have to stop at the light (thus conserving the
car's momentum) so thus there does not have to be
a penalty for having traffic lights. However the penalty
for multiple steep hills is fixed. The penalty for using a
route with many more steeper hills was about a lost of
5 mpg. Essentially the shorter and steeper the
road grade is the more difficult it is to get the
downhill MPG gain to overcome the uphill MPG
loss. When driving through multiple short steep
hills without stopping one must maximize the MPG
at each downhill grade to mitigate MPG losses from
going up each uphill grade. A short burst of power
at the very top of the hill is more useful in gaining
speed and momentum ( to go help going up the
next hill) than applying the power at the bottom
of the hill. To get the best MPG, the uphill speed
must be allowed to drop as the car goes up the
peak of the hill - attempting to accelerate or
maintaining the cars speed uphill will case the
MPG to drop. How far one can allows the MPG
is heavily dependent on traffic conditions.
Because the Prius is very heavy and its
power to weight ratio is not all that high -
FE suffers more during low speed acceleration
and uphill climbing than if it were lighter
car or a car with a more powerful ICE/MG.
combination.
As the winter approaches - I am investigating
blocking the front air intakes to help the ICE stay warm.
This requires monitoring the coolant temperature (FWT)
so that the engine does not over heat.
2010 Prius III, Yokohama Avid S33 (44psi front, 42psi rear),
Scangauge II ( RPM, MPG, FWT, AVG)
current MPG (fcd) = 60 mpg
Overall estimated MPG = 60 mpg, 5700 miles
Bruce Richmond
Blocking off the lower openings on my 2001 Prius allowed it to warm up
in about half the time, increasing my avg mpg by about 4 mpg doing
mostly 11 mile trips.
Tire pressure can also make a big difference. Going from 35 to 45
gained about 5 mpg. Cold temps will lower the pressure. Keep
checking as it gets colder. I am currently running 50 psi all
around. Good for maybe 2 mpg better than 45 psi.
Went from running 5w-30 Mobil 1 oil to 0w-30. Will be trying 0w-20 at
next change in about a month. Should help mpg with the cold weather.
Car starts fine in the cold (sub zero F)even with 5w-30.
> 2010 Prius III, Yokohama Avid S33 (44psi front, 42psi rear),
> Scangauge II ( RPM, MPG, FWT, AVG)
> current MPG (fcd) = 60 mpg
> Overall estimated MPG = 60 mpg, 5700 miles- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Neo
> Blocking off the lower openings on my 2001 Prius allowed it to warm up
> in about half the time, increasing my avg mpg by about 4 mpg doing
> mostly 11 mile trips.
>
> Tire pressure can also make a big difference. Going from 35 to 45
> gained about 5 mpg. Cold temps will lower the pressure. Keep
> checking as it gets colder. I am currently running 50 psi all
> around. Good for maybe 2 mpg better than 45 psi.
>
> Went from running 5w-30 Mobil 1 oil to 0w-30. Will be trying 0w-20 at
> next change in about a month. Should help mpg with the cold weather.
> Car starts fine in the cold (sub zero F)even with 5w-30.
In the last four weeks the average temperature has dropped
about 20 degrees Fahrenheit and the fuel efficiency of my
2010 Toyota Prius III has dropped from 62 mpg to 58 mpg.
When the temperature drops from 60 F to 40 F the mpg
drops about 10 mpg using the same route w/ hypermiling
techniques in approximately the same driving conditions
- the reason it seems is that in stop and go slow urban
driving conditions the 1010 Prius ICE must run more often
to warmup the coolant/emission devices. To try to boost
FE - I am implementing the last hypermiling trick I know
- grill blocking. I am blocking the the lower grill by 100%
and I will monitor the coolant temperature via the Scangauge
II. The objective is to make sure the ICE stays warmer and
thus has to run less frequently to keep the coolant
and emission device warm.
While some tires have a max psi rating of 50 psi,
the Yokohama Avid S33 has a maximum tire
pressure of only 44 psi so I've avoided increasing the
tire pressure any further than 44 psi (at least for now)..
2010 Prius III, Blue Ribbon/Dark Grey
Yokohama Avid S33 (44psi front, 42psi rear) <== hypermiler mod #1,
Scangauge II ( RPM, MPG, FWT, AVG) <== hypermiler mod#2
OEM floormats
lower grill blocked 100% <== hypermiler mod#3
upper grill unblocked
DC/MD/VA metro area
worst MPG (550 miles) = 54. mpg
best MPG (300 miles,) =66 mpg
current MPG (fcd) = 58 mpg
Overall estimated MPG = 59 mpg, 6300 miles
Neo
down to a high of 40 F degrees to a low of 28 F degrees.
Fuel efficiency on my 2010 Toyota Prius III droped down
to an average of 55 mpg for a oneway 12 mile commute
- this is down from an average of 65 mpg for the same
12 mile commute during the summer time. The problem
is not with the tire's rolling resistance (tire pressures is
44 psi in front and 42 psi in the rear) but with the lower
power performance from both the ICE and MG during
the colder temperatures. Also using the defroster/heater
during the winter lowers the ICE energy efficiency.
Furthermore, It takes more energy for the ICE to keep the
emissions control equipment at the proper temperature
when the outside temperature is near freezing.
To help keep the ICE warm - I've started to block
both the top and bottom grills - during the 12 mile
commute. I am monitoring the coolant temperatures
via ScangaugeII via the FWT gauge. The ICE
water/coolant temperature is peakomg somewhere
between 160 F to 188 F degrees ( If the ScangaugeII
FWT climbs to 200 F degrees I plan start removing the
top grill blocking ) so far there has been no hint
that the ICE might overheat due to the grill blocking.
I've notice that grill blocking has reduce the number
of time the ICE needs to run inorder to keep the
ICE/emission temperature up...
2010 Prius III, Blue Ribbon/Dark Grey,OEM floormats
Yokohama Avid S33 (44psi front, 42psi rear) <== hypermiler mod #1,
Scangauge II ( RPM, MPG, FWT, AVG) <== hypermiler mod#2
lower grill blocked 100%, upper grill blocked 100% <== hypermiler
mod#3
DC/MD/VA metro area
worst MPG (550 miles) = 54. mpg
best MPG (300 miles,) =66 mpg
current MPG (fmd) = 57 mpg (dropping)
Overall estimated MPG = 59 mpg (dropping), +6500 miles
Bruce Richmond
Temps here in New Hampshire have been in the teens lately and are
dropping. With lower grill blocked I am still getting about 6 mpg
less than in the summer. Will be getting a scangage II soon so that I
can tape over the upper grill as well.
On the pulse and glide technique, I'd just like to add a bit to what
you wrote back in Sept. The idea is to put the engine under more load
part of the time to reduce the losses due to drawing a vacume against
the throttle plates, and then to shut the engine off. This is an old
trick used in economy runs with normal non-hybrid cars. The car, with
a manual transmission, would be accelerated at full throttle in high
gear to a fairly low speed to avoid wind drag. It engine would then
be shut off and the trans slipped into neutral to coast.
For the Prius you want to keep the speed down low enough so that when
you let off the gas the engine shuts off and stops turning. For my
2001 that speed is 41 mph. Above that speed the engine keeps turning
to keep from over speeding the motor/generator. When you let off the
gas and the engine shuts down the electric motor starts regenerative
braking. There are losses when charging and discharging a battery, so
to avoid those losses you gently press on the gas. You don't want to
step on it so hard as to use the electric motor to propel the car,
because that would drain the battery which would then need to be
recharged. The trick is to work the gas so that the car is just
coasting, as if it were in neutral. That is the glide, without
power. You are basicly doing the same thing as the old car above, but
are able to control everything with just your foot on the gas.
The roads around here are mostly 2 lane, and coasting down to 20 mph
in a 35 zone with traffic behind you isn't really an option. Under
such circumstances I have found that a modified pulse and glide still
gives better mileage than a steady light throttle. Let off the gas to
shut the engine down, then step on it lightly to use the electric
motor to maintain your speed. When the battery gets drained enough,
or the engine cools, it will start up again. It will have to work
harder to recharge the battery while propelling the car, but the fuel
saved while it was off more than makes up for that used to charge the
battery.
Leftie
This is essentially the technique I use with my 2010. Since my
commute to work ends with a roughly 7/8 mile low-load (all either
downhill or level, low speed) run, and my commute home ends with a 2.5
mile or so low load run, I'm able to drive those last sections with the
ICE running but the electric motor doing all the driving. This raises my
average about 1.1 MPG going to work, and 2.5 coming home. Since the ICE
is going to have to run a lot to warm up the next time the car is
started, it may as well be charging the battery pack as well. The
battery pack is never below two bars when I shut the car off, and is
usually at 4 or 4.
Neo
Hypermiling in cold weather
----------------------------------------
The local ambient driving temperature has dropped to a range
somewhere beteen 37 Fahrenheit to 27 Fahrenheit with the
average about 32 Fahrenheit. I've increased the tire pressure
to about 48 psi front and 45 psi rear on the Yokohama Avid
S33. The ride is very taut but the Prius tends to coastdown
hill much easier at this tire pressure setting. Blocking the
top and bottom grills on the Prius has lessen the need for the
ICE to turn on to heat the emission catalytic converter and has
help keep the fuel efficiency up. Even with 100% blocking
on the top and bottom, it takes about 45 minutes for the coolant
temperature ( as read by the ScangaugeII FWT gauge)
to get to the normal operating temperature of 157-188 Fahrenheit.
( For the first five minutes of driving in this kind of cold
weather, the Prius fuel efficiency is between 20 mpg to
30 mpg, After 30 minutes of driving in this kind of cold
weather, the Prius fuel efficiency increases to about 35 mpg
to 45 mpg. After 45 minutes of driving in this kind of cold
weather, the Prius fuel efficency increases to about 45 mpg
to 55 mpg. After 60 minutes of driving in this kind of cold
weather, the Prius fuel efficiency seems to level off
somewhere from about 48 mpg to 60 mpg) - Short trips
in cold weather can really hurt a Prius' Fuel Efficiency.
Over the last two months that I have been grill blocking,
the coolant temperature has only briefly touched 192
Fahrenheit, the ICE has been operating well within its coolant
operating temperatures ( Note that I have not driven the
car for over 90 minutes during the last two months)
For the last four weeks, the Prius mileage has dropped to
52 miles per gallon - a new low. The off brand
anti-fogger that I applied on the interior of the windshield
has lessen the times I've needed to use the defroster
(which has help keep the Prius fuel efficiency higher)
but at this temperature I still have to use it occasionally
- I am wondering whether I applied enough or whether
I should have stuck with a brand name anti-fog application.
Because using the heater would lessen the Prius's fuel
efficiency, I am not using cabin heat - which makes driving
in this weather - a very cold situation. I am thinking that
maybe I should get a better driving overcoat (9_9) .
It looks like that as long as the *winter formula* gasoline is
being sold -- the Prius MPG is going to be significantly
less.
2010 Toyota Prius III, Blue Ribbon/Dark Grey, OEM floormats
Yokohama Avid S22 (front 48 psi, rear 45 psi)
ScangaugeII ( RPM, MPG/AVG, FWT, GPH)
lower grill 100% blocked, upper grill 100% blocked
DC/MD/VA metro area
odeometer = +7000 miles
best FE= 66 MPG (approx 300 miles)
worst FE = 52 MPG ( approx 400 miles)
News
> Hypermiling in cold weather
> ----------------------------------------
>
> The local ambient driving temperature has dropped to a range
> somewhere beteen 37 Fahrenheit to 27 Fahrenheit with the
> average about 32 Fahrenheit. I've increased the tire pressure
> to about 48 psi front and 45 psi rear on the Yokohama Avid
> S33. The ride is very taut
Good luck on snow and ice with those tires and pressures.
Neo
Yokohama Avid S33 Tires at these higher
air pressures do not appear to have any additional
tendency to hydroplane. However, the higher
air pressure means that the tires transmits
more shock from road irregularities than if
the tires were set at alower air pressure. I've
only recently upped the tire pressure but I have
not notice any problems with traction or handling;
however, since I am driving this Prius for fuel
fuel efficiency - I am not testing the upper limits
tire's handling characteristics or its braking
performance as might another. Sofar the tire
treads doesnot appear to be wearing out prematurely
or wearing out in an irregular manner -- however
I will keep an eye on this possible complication.
Reviews suggest that this particular tire has a
lifespan of about 20,000 miles - so I am expecting
to replace them in the next two years with something
better. I've read some negative consumer reviews
that complain that the Yokohama Avid S33 Tire
have poor snow and ice handling. Earlier this
year the Washington DC area was hit by a
big snow storm - but unlike certain northern
areas of the USA snow storms are a rarity
for this area - so I am unlikely to have a chance to
test this tire's actual snow and ice handling
characteristics before the tire tread wears out
Neo
wrote:
> In article
> <2d569f92-a80d-43ec-968f-8a6adc3ee...@s5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Neo <residualselfimage1...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Because using the heater would lessen the Prius's fuel
> > efficiency, I am not using cabin heat - which makes driving
> > in this weather - a very cold situation.
>
>
> The traction batteries are vented to the passenger cabin, because they
> are designed to work best in the same environment as what's comfortable
> for the passengers.
>
> Leaving the AC and heat off is WORSE for the traction batteries.
Good Point- The Prius HV Traction battery does have an optimum
operating temperature and it is cooled/heated by the
air drawn from the passenger cabin. Heat can prematurely wear
out or destroy the Prius HV Traction battery. Cold can reduce the
HV Traction Battery's output capacity. The conditioned air from
the passenger cabin is part of the Prius's battery thermal management
system. The Prius HV battery is suppose to operate between
5 C (41 F) degrees to 45 C ( 113 F) degrees with the optimum
temperature of 25 C degrees (77 F). I now have a new reason
to heat and cool the passenger cabin.
http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/energystorage/pdfs/2a_2002_01_1962.pdf
News
> On Dec 29, 7:40 am, News<N...@Group.Post> wrote:
>> On 12/29/2010 4:40 AM, Neo wrote:
>>
>>> Hypermiling in cold weather
>>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>> The local ambient driving temperature has dropped to a range
>>> somewhere beteen 37 Fahrenheit to 27 Fahrenheit with the
>>> average about 32 Fahrenheit. I've increased the tire pressure
>>> to about 48 psi front and 45 psi rear on the Yokohama Avid
>>> S33. The ride is very taut
>>
>> Good luck on snow and ice with those tires and pressures.
>
>
> Yokohama Avid S33 Tires at these higher
> air pressures do not appear to have any additional
> tendency to hydroplane.
You won't be hydroplaning on snow and ice, skippy.
You will be skating.
Neo
wrote:
> In article <CJ6dnRgoj4-6sYbQnZ2dnUVZ_s6dn...@speakeasy.net>,
> and add them to the police report. When the insurance companies start
> bickering, I'm going to make sure his insurance company knows that he
> was misusing the car in a dangerous way.
>
> Not covered by insurance, trust me.
Raising the tire pressure has not made the car more dangerous, trust
me.
My test indicate that these the tires appear to be designed to handle
the
additional pressure and that handling and braking are the same. I
know
because I had the tires set at recommended 35/33 psi setting initially
-
and I can tell you that the braking and the handling are about the
same
for normal urban-highway driving conditions. I've read that the
Yokohama
Avid S33 can be set to 50 psi in the front and 48 psi in the rear -
However, I have not tested this setting yet. There is about 8 mpg to
10 mpg
FE performance improvements going from a 35 psi front and 33 psi
rear to a 44 psi front and 42 psi rear tire pressure setting when
hypermiling. However, there does not appear appear to be any
additional
significant improvement by going over that setting to 48 psi
front and 46 psi rear.
So far, I haven't seen any reports indicating insurance companies
have
any opinion on hypermiling - positive or negative. However, I don't
think
the police would easily allow you to add something to a police
report because that would imperil their objectivity as a neutral
third
party in the eyes of the court. I am not aware of any judicial
ruling
about under what conditions overinflation of tires can constitutes
a misuse or dangerous use of a vehicle. However, if you have any
court papers to indicate this to the contrary I am very interested.
So far - I've seen very little substantial and rational evidence on
the
topic of tire overinflation. I've been experimenting with hypermiling
in part because - there is no way to find out what I need to know
without
experimentation. - if you could provide such information -
it would save me alot of time.
Most of hypermiling occurs as speeds lower than 40 mph, with slow
accelerations, slowly coming to a stop, yielding to faster vehicles
and yielding to pedestrian along the way - its highly unlikely that
during this hypermiling experiment I will hit anyone. Hypermiling
is a very passive form of driving and tends to extend the time it
takes to get anywhere. There are alot of crazy drivers out there
but I am driving so slowly that they can easily drive rings around
me or I can get out of their way in time.
Neo
Yes.
The Yokohama Avid S33 Tires are designed for
only light snow - they have only fair snow and
ice traction performance. Because, snow
and ice are a rarity in my area - it may not be
an issue for me since reviews of this tire suggest
that they are not likely to last more than another
18 months. When I get replacement tires I am
thinking of getting Hankook Optimo H727,
Consumer Reports ( July 2010, page 50-51)
reports they have very good snow and ice handling
characteristics.
News
> On Dec 31, 2:14 pm, News<N...@Group.Post> wrote:
>> On 12/31/2010 1:52 PM, Neo wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 29, 7:40 am, News<N...@Group.Post> wrote:
>>>> On 12/29/2010 4:40 AM, Neo wrote:
>>
>>>>> Hypermiling in cold weather
>>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>
>>>>> The local ambient driving temperature has dropped to a range
>>>>> somewhere beteen 37 Fahrenheit to 27 Fahrenheit with the
>>>>> average about 32 Fahrenheit. I've increased the tire pressure
>>>>> to about 48 psi front and 45 psi rear on the Yokohama Avid
>>>>> S33. The ride is very taut
>>
>>>> Good luck on snow and ice with those tires and pressures.
>>
>>> Yokohama Avid S33 Tires at these higher
>>> air pressures do not appear to have any additional
>>> tendency to hydroplane.
>>
>> You won't be hydroplaning on snow and ice, skippy.
>>
>> You will be skating.-
>
> Yes.
>
> The Yokohama Avid S33 Tires are designed for
> only light snow - they have only fair snow and
> ice traction performance.
And worse to none at those tire pressures.
Neo
==========
As some have predicted, I've finally experienced
some lost of tire tractrion from the increased tire
pressures at 48 psi front and 46 psi rear using
Yokohama Avid S33 all season tires that come standard
with the 2010 Toyota Prius III. When attempting to
go from 35 mph to 0 mph on a wet 10 degrees downhill
grade on an asphalt road - the loss of traction added
approximately about 20 feet more to the stopping
distance. Because I normally start slowing down and
braking early ( to maximize energy recovery
via the regenerative brakes) I noticed the loss in
braking performance early and I was able to easily
compensate for the loss of performance. Sadly the
48/46 psi tire setting has not provide any noticeable
fuel efficiency improvement than the 44/42 psi
setting. I have since reset the tire pressures
back to 44/42 psi setting which in the past improved
fuel efficiency but still provided adequate level
of performance wrt to braking and handling in
urban/suburban driving environments..
Grill Blocking
============
The 100% grill blocking has reduced the number of
times the Prius turns on the ICE to keep the catalytic
converter/emissions system warm. Sofar the coolant
temperature has stay more or less under 181
Fahrenheit degrees in mainly urban driving. For the
winter, grill blocking has been a significant factor in
keeping the FE up. More effective than grill blocking
is to just to drive when the temperature is warmer,
e.g. drive in the afternoon instead of at night.
2010 Toyota Prius III, Blue Ribbon/Dark Grey, OEM floormats
Yokohama Avid S22 (front 44 psi, rear 42 psi)
ScangaugeII ( RPM, MPG/AVG, FWT, GPH)
lower grill 100% blocked, upper grill 100% blocked
DC/MD/VA metro area
odeometer = +7500 miles
Daniel who wants to know
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-51CE41....@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> And one wonders why Toyota engineers didn't do this themselves.
>
> In other words, what are you breaking on your car by doing this.
Nothing so long as you monitor the ICE and inverter temperatures via a
Scangauge or similar. When they start to get too hot you simply remove the
grille block.
Daniel who wants to know
that overinflation resulted in less traction. To me the pressures on the
door jamb sticker are the minimum and the ones on the sidewall are the
maximum, kind of like the "add" and "full" marks on an oil dipstick.
Al Falfa
news:elmop-B6388A....@news.eternal-september.org...
In article <ignid9$idu$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
I love watching ignorant people speak.
Do you have a lip fetish? I prefer to listen.
Daniel who wants to know
>
>
> Again, one wonders why Toyota engineers didn't do this themselves. It's
> quite easy--just do it with the appropriate thermostat, and keep the
> coolant out of the radiator--out of the airstream--until it gets hotter.
>
> So, the question stands: what are you breaking by doing this. What
> DON'T you know about your car that the engineers DO know? What
> expensive tradeoffs are you making in order to play your rolling video
> game and make a high score appear on the screen?
>
> You're no doubt increasing the total cost of ownership of the car in
> ways you haven't anticipated, because you're laser focused on one thing
> and one thing only: fuel mileage. You think that gives you bragging
> rights.
>
> You're like the guy who throws nitro into his Civic, then blows it up
> street running against another ricer. You want one thing and one thing
> only, and you don't care how much money you spend to get it.
>
> It's highly ironic in this case that because you're doing things that
> the engineers have already decided against, you're causing MORE harm to
> the environment because your car won't last as long and will require
> replacement sooner.
>
> Your search for a high number on your rolling video game is harming the
> environment.
It's not me, I drive a '97 Lumina 3.1 that gets half the MPG of the NHW20
Prius. I do want one with a burning passion though. Requirements are NHW20
model, Seaside Pearl or Millennium Silver color, Smart key (SKS/SE,SS), non
Touring, and preferably '05-'07 model year.
And the Prius does have a thermostat on the ICE coolant loop but at 50 MPG
it is only burning about 1 gallon per hour and the block itself can
dissipate too much heat for it to stay warm.
Methinks they should have installed air shutters in front of the radiators
kind of like the old OTR trucks (semis / lorries)
I personally loathe those who forget that the primary purpose of the Prius
is low emissions not high MPG. Some are hacking into the wiring for the
coolant temp sensor to fake a higher temp for better MPG. This is just
straight up wrong. For me it falls right in line with the O2 simulators to
fake MPG gains from HHO or eliminate a P0420/P0430 when gutting or removing
the catalytic converter.
Daniel who wants to know
> In article <ignid9$idu$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Daniel who wants to know" <m...@here.edu> wrote:
>
> I love watching ignorant people speak.
If you are referring to me please enlighten me where I am wrong.
I have hand mounted everything from ATV tires all the way up to the 38"
tires on a John Deere tractor. The inflation has to match the loading,
doorjamb is minimum for comfort, sidewall is maximum, and somewhere between
is the correct pressure. If you have 80PSI cold rated tires on a full size
truck you only need all 80 when you have a load on. For instance the NHW11
Prius was known to edge wear the OE tires at the stock 35/33 pressure. The
tires wore evenly at 40/38 and higher.
News
"Hypermiling" is a game. Some people love to fool themselves playing games.
Leftie
> In article <igrgk6$2ng$1...@news.eternal-september.org>,
> "Daniel who wants to know" <m...@here.edu> wrote:
>
>> Methinks they should have installed air shutters in front of the radiators
>> kind of like the old OTR trucks (semis / lorries)
>
>
> You didn't do the engineering, you didn't do the engineering testing.
> You don't *know* what (to you) unintended consequences come about by
> blocking the radiator. That's my point. The engineers DO know. If
> they could have gotten FREE miles with a simple blocking of the
> radiator, they would have done so.
>
> But nothing in this world comes free, and the engineers no doubt
> discovered the REAL price the user pays by blocking the radiator. You,
> on the other hand, don't know the REAL price. All you know is the
> IMMEDIATE benefit. The long term cost? You aren't even considering
> that there may be one.
I guess with all those words in all caps, you MUST BE RIGHT. ;-)
More likely Toyota didn't want to spend the extra money, and didn't want
to risk the cheapo shutters they would have installed staying closed in
warm weather. Since 2007 Toyota seems to have the design goal of "Cheap
plastic, everywhere possible."
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
And you are talking out of your ass if you think the higher pressures
have much effect on traction in the snow. I have been getting around
just fine in the snow here in NH.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fool themselves? Yes, I suppose it is fooling themselves if they
spend more for a set of high mpg tires than what they save in fuel
costs, especially if they have to swap tires in the winter because the
high mpg ones stink in the snow. Or they spend $$ on a block heater
that raises their electric bill more than what they save in gas. But
averaging 60 mpg rather than 45 by driving differently and using a few
tricks that cost little or nothing is not fooling themselves.
News
You are deluded if you think snow and ice traction are unaffected by
tire pressure. Make sure you note it in your next accident report, and
pay up on contributory negligence.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
I didn't say it had no effect, I said it doesn't have much affect.
How much more flex do you think 35 psi provides? What exactly do you
think causes 35 psi to provide more traction? If you don't answer you
will have shown that you don't know what you are talking about.
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <4e676288-f901-48f8-a149-e45b0700f...@f35g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > Fool themselves? Yes, I suppose it is fooling themselves if they
> > spend more for a set of high mpg tires than what they save in fuel
> > costs, especially if they have to swap tires in the winter because the
> > high mpg ones stink in the snow. Or they spend $$ on a block heater
> > that raises their electric bill more than what they save in gas. But
> > averaging 60 mpg rather than 45 by driving differently and using a few
> > tricks that cost little or nothing is not fooling themselves.
>
> intended by the engineers, and not stopping to consider just why the
> engineers didn't do these "tricks" themselves.
The engineers aren't driving the car so they can't do tricks like
coasting up to a stop light.
> The "tricks" involve assuming that YOU know more about the car and the
> long term consequences of the "tricks" than do the guys who designed the
> silly thing. You don't, of course, but you fool yourself into thinking
> you do, simply because you want to play games to make the glowing number
> on the dash be higher.
Every design involves compromises. The engineers tend to go with what
the majority would prefer. The car has a heater. Most people would
prefer to be comfortable using it. That doesn't mean it hurts the car
to conserve the heat by not using it. Air flow around the engine
carries off some of it's heat. In the summer that's a good thing
while in the winter it is not. The engineers felt it would cost more
to provide a way of controlling those losses, so they designed it to
stay cool in the summer and run the engine to stay warm in the winter.
> You're playing a rolling video game with one goal in mind, and damn the
> consequences? That's fooling yourself.
You're a bitter old man sucking on sour grapes.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
I didn't say it had no effect, I said it doesn't have much affect.
News
Tire footprint and optimization with suspension dynamics.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
Footprint is correct. The rest is grasping at straws. Now how much
do you think the footprint changes when going from 35 to 45 psi? I
think we can agree that you would be hard pressed to tell the
difference by just looking at it. When you see a tire and think "soft
tire" it is usually in the low 20s if not lower.
Now let me ask you, do you run the latest sticky sport compound tires
on your car? No?! Why not? Could it be because they are expensive
and wear out quickly? IOW you are passing up the option of having
higher cornering limits and shorter braking distances to save a few
bucks. To quote you, "Make sure you note it in your next accident
report, and pay up on contributory negligence."
Many people run all season tires year round rather than switch back
and forth between summers and snows. They don't provide the traction
of snows, but they are willing to accept that compromise based on the
mix of driving conditions they expect to encounter. Inflating your
tires to the high side of the stock specs is no different. It is a
trade off we are allowed to make. And again, the effects are
minimal. I drove home on snow covered roads again today with no
problems.
News
Good luck. Suit yourself. The contact patch changes dramatically with
inflation pressure as well as suspension loading, camber, roll steer. I
would expect this to be particularly so for low rolling resistance tires.
Perhaps you should ask someone at Toyota what they think of your street
driving experimentation. Better yet, ask a product liability attorney.
Yes, I do run soft compounds on the sports car, and I have dialed in the
proper pressures for a variety of road surfaces and events. None of
them on the street.
Yes, I do use separate sets of high performance and winter snows for
each street vehicle. Properly inflated.
Better dial up that attorney.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL, Sure you do, In your dreams. Ha Ha
Elmo P. Shagnasty
<b0fa8d37-59e4-4801...@e4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
Bruce Richmond <bsr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > The "tricks" involve assuming that YOU know more about the car and the
> > long term consequences of the "tricks" than do the guys who designed the
> > silly thing. �You don't, of course, but you fool yourself into thinking
> > you do, simply because you want to play games to make the glowing number
> > on the dash be higher.
>
> Every design involves compromises. The engineers tend to go with what
> the majority would prefer.
I'm not talking about preferences, I'm talking about things like
drivetrain longevity. You don't know what factors affect that, and why
the engineers made the "compromises" they did.
It's not all about "what people prefer".
For example:
> The car has a heater. Most people would
> prefer to be comfortable using it. That doesn't mean it hurts the car
> to conserve the heat by not using it.
bzzzzzt, thanks for playing. It most certainly does hurt the car to
"converve heat" by not using the heater. The engineers designed the
traction battery to operate best within the same temperature range as
what makes the human driver comfortable. Ever notice that it's vented
to the cabin? That's to take advantage of cabin climate control. And
by the way, that's why the Prius *has* automatic climate control--not
because Toyota wanted to give a premium feature like that to someone
buying a $20K car, but to give the battery the best chance to be in its
optimimum temperature operating zone. Give the driver the ability to
set it and forget it, and let the body computer make all the decisions
on how to get the cabin--and the traction battery--to where it needs to
be.
So now you come in and play your rolling video game, but you ignore the
big picture that you clearly don't know anything about. When you choose
not to heat the cabin, out of ignorance, you're screwing with the highly
engineered system that lots of highly paid professionals designed and
created. You're actually hurting the traction battery.
> Air flow around the engine
> carries off some of it's heat. In the summer that's a good thing
> while in the winter it is not. The engineers felt it would cost more
> to provide a way of controlling those losses, so they designed it to
> stay cool in the summer and run the engine to stay warm in the winter.
nope. The engineers made many decisions, and of course cost came into
play, but it's nowhere near as simple as what you think. The engineers
need cabin heat in the winter--they need the human to be comfortable--in
order for the entire system to work as designed. Your claims of "well,
they just did it for cost saving" are nothing more than self-serving
excuses for you to play your rolling video game and hyperfocus on one
thing: that dashboard number.
You're sacrificing the traction battery long-term just for your
short-term goal of making numbers appear on your rolling video game. Is
that a PREFERENCE of yours? Add up your total per-mile cost--not your
miles per gallon, but your total per-mile cost--over the life of the
car, and do so by adding in an early traction battery replacement that
you wouldn't have otherwise needed if you weren't playing your rolling
video game.
That's just one example of what happens when amateurs convince
themselves that they know more than the guy who engineered something as
complicated as the hybrid synergy drive.
> > You're playing a rolling video game with one goal in mind, and damn the
> > consequences? �That's fooling yourself.
>
> You're a bitter old man sucking on sour grapes.
hardly. I'm a knowledgeable man explaining the world to an ignorant,
selfish youngster.
News
Laugh it up. Remember to drive it all the way through the crash.
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <b0fa8d37-59e4-4801-b135-0d127a0c7...@e4g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>,
bzzzzzt, back at you. Heat would hurt the battery but being cold just
reduces its capacity while it is cold. Start working it and it will
warm up the battery restoring its capacity. Also it seems you don't
know that much about hypermiling. The pulse and glide technique
avoids discharging and charging the traction battery, so it reduces
the work load on it and should extend its life.
> > Air flow around the engine
> > carries off some of it's heat. In the summer that's a good thing
> > while in the winter it is not. The engineers felt it would cost more
> > to provide a way of controlling those losses, so they designed it to
> > stay cool in the summer and run the engine to stay warm in the winter.
>
> nope. The engineers made many decisions, and of course cost came into
> play, but it's nowhere near as simple as what you think. The engineers
> need cabin heat in the winter--they need the human to be comfortable--in
> order for the entire system to work as designed. Your claims of "well,
> they just did it for cost saving" are nothing more than self-serving
> excuses for you to play your rolling video game and hyperfocus on one
> thing: that dashboard number.
You already used your cabin heat excuse, and it doesn't apply here
anyway. The car loses heat from the engine compartment directly to
the outside whether you are using the heater or not. I quite often do
use the heater because I like being comfortable and not looking
through fogged up windows. I have taped the grill off to prevent the
uncontrolled loss of heat that can be put to good use. With the grill
taped off the engine gets up to normal operating temperature quicker,
giving me heat for the interior and reducing engine wear. The
thermostat still controls the engine's temperature when it is up to
temp, and it is unlikely there will be any overheating with the cool
ambient temps. The quicker warm up also gives it a better chance of
boiling off condensation in the engine during my 11 mile commute to
work in winter weather. It also helps me save gasoline. That's four
reasons why taping off the grill is a good thing to do. Can you list
even one reason not to? Like I said, the main reason for not doing
more to control heat lost was probably cost.
> You're sacrificing the traction battery long-term just for your
> short-term goal of making numbers appear on your rolling video game. Is
> that a PREFERENCE of yours? Add up your total per-mile cost--not your
> miles per gallon, but your total per-mile cost--over the life of the
> car, and do so by adding in an early traction battery replacement that
> you wouldn't have otherwise needed if you weren't playing your rolling
> video game.
>
> That's just one example of what happens when amateurs convince
> themselves that they know more than the guy who engineered something as
> complicated as the hybrid synergy drive.
I never said I know more than the engineers, but it seems I know more
than you do. BTW, when using the pulse and glide technique the
computer still has the final say on when the battery will be charged/
discharged or the engine shut down/started. I just control the gas
pedal which is one of the inputs to the computer. I do not have an EV
switch and I have not over ridden the computer's programing.
> > > You're playing a rolling video game with one goal in mind, and damn the
> > > consequences? That's fooling yourself.
>
> > You're a bitter old man sucking on sour grapes.
>
> hardly. I'm a knowledgeable man explaining the world to an ignorant,
> selfish youngster.
It's selfish of me to want to conserve fuel? Wow, do you have a
warped way of looking at things. And speaking of ignorant, you don't
even know how old I am.
Neo
Previously, I had read that setting the tire pressures to
50psi would return signficantly better fuel efficiency than the 44 psi
setting. The suggestion to set the tire pressure at 50psi also
came with a warning that some loss of traction would occur
so I knew from the start that there would be some traction loss
but I didn't know precisely when traction loss would occur and
under what conditions. So I incrementally increasing the tire
pressure
with this trade off in mind. I was amazed that it really took me
this long to experience the loss of traction though. I was also
equally disappointed that I was not able to increase in the fuel
efficency from the previous setting of 44 psi after the tire pressure
was raised to 48 psi. My guess is that the fuel efficiency gain
potential for tire overinflation is dependent on the tire make-model
and that 44 psi seems to be the upper limit for the particular
make and model of tire that I am using - atleast for the
winter driving environment.
If the Scangauge II coolant temperature (FWT) goes over 198 F
(Thermostat at 80% open) the grill blocks will be removed - sofar
my max coolant temperature has been 190F. The main reasons
that I haven't been able to go over 190 F is that I haven't driven
longer than 65 minutes and it takes about 50 minutes just for
the coolant temperature to get up to 180 F when the outside
temperature is from about 20 F to 34 F. In generation 2 the
inverter air intakes are in the bottom grill. My generation 3 Prius
has the inverter air intakes at the top grill. When the temperature
climbs back up to 50 F the (top) grill blocking for the inverters
comes off. When the temperature climbs back up to 60 F -
I will removing the rest of grill blocking at the bottom.
The inverter coolant is use to regulate the temperature of the
motor/generators - it prevents the motor/generators from
overheating. I had grill blocked incrementally - adding more
blocking to see if I could reduce or eliminate the number of
times the ICE had to turn on to warm up the catalytic
converters.. Initially, I blocked 100% the bottom grillI, which
reduced the frequency of the warm ups events during my
commute of 60 minutes to two to three times . Blocking the
top grill 50% reduce the frequency of the warms during a
60 minute urban commute to one or two warmup events.
It was only when I block both the top and bottom grills
100% that I reduced the ICE warm up to when
intially starting up the car. I was very impressed with
my results.
Neo
> On 1/15/2011 1:59 AM, Daniel who wants to know wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Elmo P. Shagnasty"<el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
> >news:elmop-F662E4....@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >> Again, one wonders why Toyota engineers didn't do this themselves. It's
> >> quite easy--just do it with the appropriate thermostat, and keep the
> >> coolant out of the radiator--out of the airstream--until it gets hotter.
My guess is that the thermostat (spring) behaves linearly with
temperature but the loss of energy/temperature due to an
extreme drop in temperature behaves in a non-linear fashion.
Hence, the thermostat cannot easily compensate. Grill blocking
is a very cheap solution ($3 of pipe insulation) too. I've seen
school buses and diesel trucks do grill blocking in the past
so it's not a new ideal.
>
> >> So, the question stands: what are you breaking by doing this. What
> >> DON'T you know about your car that the engineers DO know? What
> >> expensive tradeoffs are you making in order to play your rolling video
> >> game and make a high score appear on the screen?
The risk to grill blocking is that the ICE or the MG could overheat
on a long drive. So the maximum internal temperatures need to
be known and monitored. for the 3rd/2nd generation Prius the
max coolant temperature is about 200 F - this is when the thermostat
is opened 100% and coolant flow is operating a peak speed.
When the maximum internal temperatures there is a risk that
the coolant system will not be able to remove the heat from the
ICE fast enough to prevent internal damage. So before that
maximum temperature is reached the grill blocking needs to
come off. While engineering wise grill blocking is not
necessary to run the Prius - it is an inexpensive way to
increase its fuel efficiency by about 10% in extreme cold.
So while the outside temperature is hovering somewhere
between 20 F and 32 F, the Prius is still averaging somewhere
between 52 to 54 mpg in mainly urban driving.conditions
for short distances. The advantages of grill blocking in cold
weather is less clear for highway driving ( > 50 mph) for long
distance ( two or more hours per driving session) because
at high speeds and for long distances - the ICE is running
more often and heat loss is less of a problem.
>
> >> You're no doubt increasing the total cost of ownership of the car in
> >> ways you haven't anticipated, because you're laser focused on one thing
> >> and one thing only: fuel mileage. You think that gives you bragging
> >> rights.
Elmo's fears and assessments are incorrect in several ways.
Hypermiling actually puts less wear and stress on the car
because acceleration and braking are done more gently.
For example, hypermilers often report extremely low brake
system wear. Hypermiling is generally focused on speeds
between 25 mph to 45 mph (with 55 mph being a niche interest)
inwhich special driving techniques are use to optimizing
one's driving for the current driving environment. Some
organizations like AAA discourage hypermiling due to
one hypermiling technique call drafting. However, I have
not advocated drafting. Rather I am using other easier
and safer hypermiling techniques, traffic light timing-
DWB (driving without brakes), pulse and glide, SHM, etc.
Increase fuel mileage also translates to lower fuel cost.
My thread is not about bragging but about how to maximize
fuel efficiency of a Prius and understand why it works
and when it won't work. In a few years, there
will be other cars whose fuel efficiency will overshadow
the Prius. While the 2010 Prius can't best a 1999
Honda Insight in hypermiling - its easier to drive. My
goal has been to see how close I could get to MPG levels
reported by hypermiler Wayne Gerdes (98 mpg
on a 2010 Prius) and to see what I could learn.
>
> >> You're like the guy who throws nitro into his Civic, then blows it up
> >> street running against another ricer. You want one thing and one thing
> >> only, and you don't care how much money you spend to get it.
LOL.
I look like a gearhead?
>
> >> It's highly ironic in this case that because you're doing things that
> >> the engineers have already decided against, you're causing MORE harm to
> >> the environment because your car won't last as long and will require
> >> replacement sooner.
Engineers must design based on performance and cost
compromises - Many major engineering compromises
are not done by engineers but by the CEO and Marketing types.
For example, those tail fins on cars in the 1950s were never
and engineer decision. Having a solar panel on the 2010
Prius was more of a marketing than an engineering decision.
The life of the tire probably going to be a little over three years
at best - I doubt my experiments will increase or decrease the
life of the current tires. I've read and heard many allegations
that this tire's manufacture products are of poor design
and quality , e.g. claims of tire rot. Sofar I haven't notice
anything unusally bad about these tires though.
The grill blocking is a well know and safe technique;
I am monitoring the coolant temperature and I know what
temperature to look for too.
.
My hunch is that hypermiling will extend the life of the car.
Reports by 1st Gen Prius owners seem to suggest that
the Prius traction battery has a very low failure rate and
that hypermiling will not prematurely wear it down.
>
> >> Your search for a high number on your rolling video game is harming the
> >> environment.
In a way learning can be like a game -- so the analogy that
what I am doing looks like a game has some truth to it.
The question is not whether one might be able to play this game,
but whether one is any good at playing this game
but to be more direct and explicit...
I am incrementally testing and verifying what I've read about
hypermiling
and I am humbly passing on what I have found.
One truth, I would like to pass on is that
one cannot learn hypermiling effectively by reading about it or
watching a video.
its more like a skill or a talent that one acquires
over time through practice .
News
> On Jan 13, 2:05 pm, "Daniel who wants to know"<m...@here.edu> wrote:
>> Considering the Avid S33 tires are only 44 max cold rated it is no surprise
>> that overinflation resulted in less traction.
>
> 50psi would return signficantly better fuel efficiency than the 44 psi
> setting. The suggestion to set the tire pressure at 50psi also
> came with a warning that some loss of traction would occur
> so I knew from the start that there would be some traction loss
> but I didn't know precisely when traction loss would occur and
> under what conditions. So I incrementally increasing the tire
> pressure
> with this trade off in mind. I was amazed that it really took me
> this long to experience the loss of traction though.
Meanwhile, you take the driving public hostage to your foolish
experimentation. Your insurance carrier will no doubt appreciate this
behavioral insight for rating purposes.
Bruce Richmond
Meanwhile you amuse this group by posting with your head up your ass.
News
You have the recto-cranial insertion franchise all to yourself, skippy.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
So tell us all about the Prius that you drive, and why you bought it.
News
Neither the 3G Prius nor other current hybrids meets my requirements.
I will look at the 2012 Prius v, when offered.
Meanwhile, keep telling us how you are a menace on the public roads.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
So why do you come to this news group? Just like being a troll?
News
Me? Product-user research, primarily.
You, on the other hand, apparently to show off your ignorance.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
Giving people shit about how they use their cars is not research. You
are a troll.
News
Consider it a word to the wise. Unless of course...
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
If they are wise they will ignore you. As often as not your advice is
wrong.
News
Suit yourself. Ignorance is bliss.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
You should know ;)
News
Your postings here speak for themselves.
Bruce Richmond
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yes, they do. Unlike you I know what I am writing about. I own a
Prius and drive it every day. You OTOH claim to be an expert on a car
you don't own.
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <f949b59d-c881-43ae-84a8-1d1efe89f...@p12g2000vbo.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Meanwhile, you take the driving public hostage to your foolish
> > > >> experimentation. Your insurance carrier will no doubt appreciate this
> > > >> behavioral insight for rating purposes.
>
> > > > Meanwhile you amuse this group by posting with your head up your ass.
>
> > > You have the recto-cranial insertion franchise all to yourself, skippy.-
> > > Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > So tell us all about the Prius that you drive, and why you bought it.
>
> choices were that, a Malibu, or continue to drive my own car and get
> reimbursed.
>
> Yes, mine is a company car (and it's a nice bennie, saves me money).
> Sight unseen, without having so much as sat inside one, I chose the
> Prius. And for comfort and driveability, I know I made the right
> choice. It's amazing that you can acquire a Toyota sight unseen and
> know you won't regret it for ergonomic reasons.
>
> Before getting it, I read up on it--extensively. I've forgotten more
> about it than most owners will ever know. (That's OK; it's documented
> somewhere.) I got it on a Wednesday; by 11am that Saturday it looked
> like this:
>
> http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/528/11936907.jpg
>
> That was the result of installing the Lockpick, so I could plug in my
> satellite radio. Having access to the front screen was a fun bonus, but
> I never played with it after validating the Lockpick installation. No,
> my car doesn't have the AUX in to the radio; fleets buy the no package
> cars, cars that don't exist in the wild on dealer lots.
>
> I didn't get one to play a rolling video game or to save the earth or
> anything like that. So, mine is JUST A CAR. As such, I give it no
> excuses--it must *be* a car. The climate control is on, making ME
> comfortable. I get tires that are appropriate for DRIVING, not for
> playing a rolling video game.
>
> So play your rolling video game on your own time, on your own roads, and
> get the fuck out of the way of the driving public.
So now the truth is finally out. You're not worried that someone might
hurt their car. You're just worried that they might get in your way.
I bought my 2001 Prius used in 2009 with 112k miles on it. I didn't
buy it to save the earth or anything like that either. I bought it to
save me money. This is my first Toyota but I know from reading that
they have a good rep for not breaking down a lot. At its age, and
with those miles on it, I was able to buy the Prius for about the same
price as any other econobox of that age, and I knew it would get
decent mileage. It didn't take long to find out that I could make big
improvements to that already decent mileage pretty easily.
Using the pulse and glide technique doesn't damage the car in any
way. If anything it is easier on the battery than normal driving
because it avoids discharging and recharging the battery. The down
side is that it will annoy anyone stuck behind you when you are doing
it. I know that and make it a point not to play that game when
someone is stuck behind me. I will either drive normally or pull over
and let them by depending on my mood and how much traffic there is.
Not using the heater doesn't hurt the car. It actually allows the
engine to get up to temp quicker. In the winter I have to dress for
the cold anyway. The drive to work only takes 20 minutes and it would
take at least half of that to get the passenger compartment warm
anyway. So why bother? I use the defroster if needed to keep from
fogging up. Other that that I leave the heat off on short trips. On
longer trips I use heat/defrost as needed for comfort. Either way it
is of no consequence to you.
Blocking the grill off does not hurt the car. It is better for it
since it allows it to get up to normal operating temp quicker.
There's no down side to it during cold weather, and doing it to my car
doesn't affect you in any way.
Running increased tire pressures reduces rolling resistance. The
belts in the tread help maintain even contact across the width of the
tread so the middle doesn't wear out prematurely. It may reduce the
tire's grip slightly, but so do sand, snow, water and many other
things. If you are a decent driver you know the limits of your car
and drive within them. What I do with tire pressures on my car are
not your concern.
I do not use a plug in block heater. Besides the initial cost of the
heater the savings are minimal when the electric costs are subtracted
from the savings on fuel costs. I'm interested in saving money, not
just having the highest mpg.
For similar reasons I don't run special low rolling resistance tires.
Besides the higher initial cost they wouldn't work in the snow. So I
would either have to pay to have tires remounted twice a year, or buy
a second set of rims. I doubt I would break even either way.
So there you have it. I do what I can to save a buck on my own time,
on roads that are as much mine as they are yours, and I do make an
effort not to get in the way of others, though I would make an
exception to that if I knew it was you ;)
News
Hardly. Your ignorance speaks for itself.
> You OTOH claim to be an expert on a car you don't own.
Check the record. I make NO claims on Prius.
Definitely an expert on tire pressure and its effects on vehicle
dynamics, which you will learn one way or another, probably at great
personal expense. Remember to drive it all the way through the crash.
If an when the Prius v is available and found suitable, I won't be
sub-optimizing it and endangering others -- as you have chosen to do
with yours.
News
> In article
> <4cf8b4b4-fbc1-4975...@o39g2000prb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond<bsr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, they do. Unlike you I know what I am writing about. I own a Prius
>> and drive it every day. You OTOH claim to be an expert on a car you
>> don't own.
>
> less he knows, the more strident and bombastic he is.
>
Oh, really, Cocoa?
I do in fact support iPhones -- and their fanboi users. Far too much.
And I tolerate those who refuse to get it, here and there. Far too much.
News
> In article
> <8f586f70-bd05-4ae5...@s2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond<bsr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> So now the truth is finally out. You're not worried that someone might
>> hurt their car. You're just worried that they might get in your way.
>
> playing well with others, you care ONLY about yourself and your desire
> to play your rolling video game. The rest of the world doesn't exist as
> far as you're concerned.
>
> In that context, I'm pissed that you get in my way. Absolutely.
>
> Since you have no desire to care about the world around you, I thought
> maybe I'd take the tack of pointing out some facts that you might pay
> attention to, since they affect YOU directly and that seems to be the
> only thing you pay attention to.
>
>
>
>
>> Using the pulse and glide technique doesn't damage the car in any
>> way.
>
> dangerous on the road to the people around you. Again, you don't care.
>
>
>
>> Not using the heater doesn't hurt the car.
>
> placement of the battery is an example of that. The battery expects to
> be in the same operating environment as the standard driver. Not the
> freako driver.
>
>
>
>> Blocking the grill off does not hurt the car.
>
> who designed the car--those same engineers who didn't bother to put in a
> different thermostat, for example. Huh. Why do you suppose that is.
> Well, you don't know because you weren't privy to the design decisions,
> so you just went ahead and made up some story that just happens to fit
> in with your desire to score high on your rolling video game.
>
>
>
>> Running increased tire pressures reduces rolling resistance.
>
> know is, you found something to use to play your rolling video game.
> You have compromised the car's ability to stop and steer (of course, you
> do know that changing direction involves deceleration, which is
> stopping, which is why you now can't turn as well--right?).
>
>> What I do with tire pressures on my car are
>> not your concern.
>
> presumed contributing factor is because you compromised the car by
> running it outside of its intended parameters. And when you run into
> me, or cause an accident that either blocks traffic and causes delays
> or, God forbid, kills someone--that's my concern. That's the concern of
> ALL of society.
>
> But you refuse to see that, because you've already rationalized to
> yourself that your desire to play your rolling video game overrides
> anything else--the cost to yourself or any cost to the world around you.
>
> In other words, you've told the world around you to fuck off, you're
> busy doing what YOU want, and THEY don't matter.
>
>
>
>
>
>> I do what I can to save a buck on my own time,
>
> When you pulse and glide in traffic, you're holding everyone up and are
> driving in a way that people can't predict--which makes you dangerous.
> When you can't stop for the light, or when you begin stopping REAL early
> because you know that your tires are at the edge of any reasonable
> traction and therefore the people behind you are held hostage to your
> car's deficiencies with respect to normal traffic, it's NOT your own
> time.
>
> You're telling the rest of the world to fuck off because you want to be
> selfish in an irrational way that affects everyone around you.
EXACTLY.
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <8f586f70-bd05-4ae5-95e3-f6cd7205f...@s2g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > So now the truth is finally out. You're not worried that someone might
> > hurt their car. You're just worried that they might get in your way.
>
> playing well with others, you care ONLY about yourself and your desire
> to play your rolling video game. The rest of the world doesn't exist as
> far as you're concerned.
>
> In that context, I'm pissed that you get in my way. Absolutely.
So what part of "The down side is that it will annoy anyone stuck
behind you when you are doing it. I know that and make it a point not
to play that game when someone is stuck behind me." (which you
snipped) did you not understand? I made it perfectly clear that I do
not get in the way of others when using pulse and glide. But that
doesn't fit in with your stupid prejudice, so you snipped it and
accused me of doing the exact opposit. You're a troll, pure and
simple.
> Since you have no desire to care about the world around you, I thought
> maybe I'd take the tack of pointing out some facts that you might pay
> attention to, since they affect YOU directly and that seems to be the
> only thing you pay attention to.
Except that the "facts" that you tacked on were false.
> > Using the pulse and glide technique doesn't damage the car in any
> > way.
>
> But it does get in the way of the traffic around you, which makes you
> dangerous on the road to the people around you. Again, you don't care.
Like I said, what part of "The down side is that it will annoy anyone
stuck behind you when you are doing it. I know that and make it a
point not to play that game when someone is stuck behind me." (which
you snipped) did you not understand?
> > Not using the heater doesn't hurt the car.
>
> It's not how the engineers intended the car to be used, and the
> placement of the battery is an example of that. The battery expects to
> be in the same operating environment as the standard driver. Not the
> freako driver.
What part of "It actually allows the engine to get up to temp
quicker." (which you snipped) did you not understand? Also, as was
explained to you before, being cold does not damage the battery, it
just reduces its capacity till it is warmed up. If clold actually
damaged it, it would be damaged every time you let the car cool off
during the winter. It is heat that will damage the battery. The only
time the fan comes on for the battery vent system is when it gets too
warm. If they needed to be warmed by the cabin air as you claim the
fan would be coming on all the time. Of course you probably knew this
but chose to ignore it because it didn't fit in with your prejudices.
> > Blocking the grill off does not hurt the car.
>
> You keep saying these things as if you know better than the engineers
> who designed the car--those same engineers who didn't bother to put in a
> different thermostat, for example. Huh. Why do you suppose that is.
> Well, you don't know because you weren't privy to the design decisions,
> so you just went ahead and made up some story that just happens to fit
> in with your desire to score high on your rolling video game.
Do you have insulation in your house? Is it required, or could the
furnace heat the house without it being insulated? Why didn't the
builder put in more/better insulation? Why did you snip "It is better
for it since it allows it to get up to normal operating temp
quicker."?
> > Running increased tire pressures reduces rolling resistance.
>
> Yeah. Do you know what rolling resistance is? No, you don't. All you
> know is, you found something to use to play your rolling video game.
Just because you're too stupid to know what rolling resistance is
doesn't mean that I am.
> You have compromised the car's ability to stop and steer (of course, you
> do know that changing direction involves deceleration, which is
> stopping, which is why you now can't turn as well--right?).
Ok smart ass, quantify it. Just how much is the traction reduced? If
you are routinely driving in a manner where a tiny difference in
traction is enough to put you at risk then you are a menace
reguardless of what your tire pressures are.
> > What I do with tire pressures on my car are
> > not your concern.
>
> Absolutely it is. If I catch you running into me or anyone else, a
> presumed contributing factor is because you compromised the car by
> running it outside of its intended parameters. And when you run into
> me, or cause an accident that either blocks traffic and causes delays
> or, God forbid, kills someone--that's my concern. That's the concern of
> ALL of society.
>
> But you refuse to see that, because you've already rationalized to
> yourself that your desire to play your rolling video game overrides
> anything else--the cost to yourself or any cost to the world around you.
>
> In other words, you've told the world around you to fuck off, you're
> busy doing what YOU want, and THEY don't matter.
I don't tell the world around me to fuck off, but I will tell you to.
> > I do what I can to save a buck on my own time,
>
> At the expense of everyone around you. No, it's not your own time.
> When you pulse and glide in traffic, you're holding everyone up and are
> driving in a way that people can't predict--which makes you dangerous.
> When you can't stop for the light, or when you begin stopping REAL early
> because you know that your tires are at the edge of any reasonable
> traction and therefore the people behind you are held hostage to your
> car's deficiencies with respect to normal traffic, it's NOT your own
> time.
And you're a lying asshole of a troll that likes to make shit up.
> You're telling the rest of the world to fuck off because you want to be
> selfish in an irrational way that affects everyone around you.
LOL, I'm selfish for trying to save gas. Go argue that one with the
greentards that will tell you that you are selfish if you don't do
everything you can to use less fuel. You ought to get along great
with them.
bwilson4web
> . . . I don't run special low rolling resistance tires.
> Besides the higher initial cost they wouldn't work in the snow.
Sumitomo T4s are rated as low rolling resistance tires and what our
local Toyota Service Centers sell as replacements for the OEM tires.
At Tire Rack, they have been one of the more affordable tires although
last week I learned they had gone from $50/tire I first paid to $66/
tire. I've been pretty happy with them in North Alabama.
> . . . So I
> would either have to pay to have tires remounted twice a year, or buy
> a second set of rims. I doubt I would break even either way.
Winter tires have more to do with superior winter grip and safety more
than economics. I"ve never lived far enough North to consider them a
realistic option. Most of the time, snow storms shutdown the whole
area and we all take a 'snow day.' But if I lived in areas where snow
is considered 'part of the climate,' I'd probably have a set on steel
rims and swap them in the fall and spring.
Bob Wilson
News
> In article<KI6dnSzelfLKFdjQ...@speakeasy.net>,
> News<Ne...@Group.Post> wrote:
>
>>> That is his MO; he does the same thing in the iPhone newsgroup. And
>>> the less he knows, the more strident and bombastic he is.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Oh, really, Cocoa?
>>
>> I do in fact support iPhones -- and their fanboi users. Far too much.
>
> know ten times as much as you actually do.
>
> But please continue to display your ignorance both here and there; you do
> provide comic relief.
>
As do your lame replies.
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <9597dfa0-b5b3-4aa2-a75e-ab43e8f0b...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > It's not how the engineers intended the car to be used, and the
> > > placement of the battery is an example of that. The battery expects to
> > > be in the same operating environment as the standard driver. Not the
> > > freako driver.
>
> > What part of "It actually allows the engine to get up to temp
> > quicker." (which you snipped) did you not understand?
>
>
> Whaht part of "you don't know the long term or otherwise side effects of
> doing that, and if the engineers chose not to do that, what their true
> reasoning was" did you REFUSE to hear and/or understand?
>
> Yes, refuse. You refuse to hear things that simply don't fit into your
> world of your rolling video game.
Owners have been doing this for over ten years and the engineers are
well aware of it. If they thought it was a problem I am sure they
would mention it in the owners manual.
> > > > I do what I can to save a buck on my own time,
>
> > > At the expense of everyone around you. No, it's not your own time.
> > > When you pulse and glide in traffic, you're holding everyone up and are
> > > driving in a way that people can't predict--which makes you dangerous.
> > > When you can't stop for the light, or when you begin stopping REAL early
> > > because you know that your tires are at the edge of any reasonable
> > > traction and therefore the people behind you are held hostage to your
> > > car's deficiencies with respect to normal traffic, it's NOT your own
> > > time.
>
> > And you're a lying asshole of a troll that likes to make shit up.
>
> Hit home, didn't it. YOU'RE the one who likes to invent things--like
> how you "just know" that blocking the grill has no detrimental side
> effects, for example. After all, the engineers who could have specified
> a different thermostat in order to create the same effect must have been
> fuckin' stupid, otherwise they would have seen the wisdom that is so
> obvious to you, right?
Blocking the grill in the winter doesn't cause the engine to get any
hotter than it does unblocked in the summer. The sensors still
function to warn if it is getting too hot. I have given three reasons
why blocking the grill is better than leaving it unblocked. You have
yet to explain why blocking the grill might cause a problem.
> > > You're telling the rest of the world to fuck off because you want to be
> > > selfish in an irrational way that affects everyone around you.
>
> > LOL, I'm selfish for trying to save gas. Go argue that one with the
> > greentards that will tell you that you are selfish if you don't do
> > everything you can to use less fuel. You ought to get along great
> > with them.
>
> You're selfish for focusing on ONE THING to the exclusion of the big
> picture of the world around you. Saving gas is meaningless if your
> actions cause your car, or maybe your car plus some other unlucky son of
> a bitch's car, to hit the junkyard sooner (because you caused an
> accident that resulted directly from your playing your rolling video
> game) and create the need for more cars to be built.
>
> If your vision is truly as narrow as you describe, then it's no wonder
> you're as ignorant as you come across. Saving gas in and of itself, in
> a vacuum, is a fine idea--but it has to be integrated into the rest of
> the world.
And you ignore the fact that I listed things that would save gas that
I would not do because they didn't save enough to justify their cost.
You're a lying troll.
> I can't wait, for example, for electric cars to stress the grid so much
> that the owners' selfishness of hogging the limited supply of
> electricity causes some old people to freeze to death, or to die of
> overheating, because there just wasn't enough power to go around.
That's a good troll. When you are shown to be full of shit you try to
change the subject.
> Those greentards who ignore the big picture and go laser-focused on
> single issues, just like you and you rolling video game, are exactly
> that--greentards.
>
> We live in a big world with lots of people. Deal with it.
I get along just fine in the real world. If you act the same in the
real world as you do on line I suspect you have few friends.
Daniel who wants to know
news:elmop-B2A988....@news.eternal-september.org...
> Hit home, didn't it. YOU'RE the one who likes to invent things--like
> how you "just know" that blocking the grill has no detrimental side
> effects, for example. After all, the engineers who could have specified
> a different thermostat in order to create the same effect must have been
> fuckin' stupid, otherwise they would have seen the wisdom that is so
> obvious to you, right?
>
The thermostat has nothing to do with it. The stock 'stat is rated at 82� C
or 180� F. Below that it is obviously closed. The Prius only burns about 1
gallon of fuel per hour, hence the aluminum engine block all by itself can
dissipate almost enough to keep it from overheating. Then add the fact that
the engine is bolted to another large hunk of aluminum called the transaxle
(which doesn't have a heat generating and it is even worse.
As Neo said:
"Even with 100% blocking
on the top and bottom, it takes about 45 minutes for the coolant
temperature ( as read by the ScangaugeII FWT gauge)
to get to the normal operating temperature of 157-188� Fahrenheit"
How could a different tstat make a difference when the stock one is closed
for the first 45 minutes? You could replace it with a metal plate and it
wouldn't overheat during an average commute.
(BTW to get the degree symbol � in Windows hold down the alt key and enter
0176 on the numeric keypad).
News
> In article
> Bruce Richmond<bsr...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>>> Yes, refuse. You refuse to hear things that simply don't fit into your
>>> world of your rolling video game.
>>
>> Owners have been doing this for over ten years and the engineers are
>> well aware of it. If they thought it was a problem I am sure they
>> would mention it in the owners manual.
>
>
> The engineers have spoken, for the record. They have nothing else to
> say, specifically.
>
> No reasonable person would expect the engineers to have any say, one way
> or another, for public consumption.
>
> Again, you're leaping to huge conclusions based on how you wish the
> world worked--without any actual facts at your disposal.
>
>
>
>
>>> If your vision is truly as narrow as you describe, then it's no wonder
>>> you're as ignorant as you come across. Saving gas in and of itself, in
>>> a vacuum, is a fine idea--but it has to be integrated into the rest of
>>> the world.
>>
>> And you ignore the fact that I listed things that would save gas that
>> I would not do because they didn't save enough to justify their cost.
>
> for me the cost *I* must bear so that YOU can save gas? Are you now in
> charge of determining that *I* must accept your wildly gyrating driving
> style and your out of spec suspension (yes, tires and their inflation
> are part of the suspension that the engineers craft very carefully)
> simply because YOU declare it to be "justified"???
>
> I don't expect to be driving next to someone who is randomly speeding up
> and slowing down. That's not how the world works. But YOU have
> declared that it "shall be so" simply because YOU think it's
> "justified"??
>
>
>
>
>>> We live in a big world with lots of people. Deal with it.
>>
>> I get along just fine in the real world.
>
> people around you as you slip and slide in the wet, slow down way early
> for no apparent reason, and speed up and slow down in traffic again for
> no apparent reason, doesn't mean they're not there.
>
> And do let us know when you've trashed your car early, causing the build
> of a new car. Oh, we know you won't--but I guarantee you will remember
> this when you see the early death of this car.
He's betting with his warranty, auto and umbrella insurance. Good luck.
Neo
wrote:
> In article
> <fc417cfb-2385-4aef-914c-4ddbc329c...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes, refuse. You refuse to hear things that simply don't fit into your
> > > world of your rolling video game.
>
> > Owners have been doing this for over ten years and the engineers are
> > well aware of it. If they thought it was a problem I am sure they
> > would mention it in the owners manual.
>
>
> The engineers have spoken, for the record. They have nothing else to
> say, specifically.
There are many angry and reckless drivers
in the Washington DC Area and you don't
have to hypermile or drive a particular way to meet
them - they are just naturally riskier, more aggressive,
impatient, and often angry. I see them weave
in and out of traffic, race to a stop light,
ignore traffic laws, and go way over the speed
limit. Local traffic congestion seem to make
these drivers stand out more. When you drive
in the Washington DC area there's not way
to avoid them - one of those crazy driver
left my friend's father paralyzed for life - who
was obeying all the laws ( and he wasn't hypermiling).
when he was severly injured. What was not in
his favor was that he was hit while in a Sentra
- which is a fairly light car with very little side
impact protection.
It is a myth that all hypermiling techniques are
dangerous and that hypermiling techniques impede
traffic. The velocity range in a Pulse and Glide can
be adjusted to current traffic conditions as to be
unnoticeable. For example, a PG range of 6 mph
would hardly be noticeable in most urban/suburban
traffic conditions. In addition, techniques like
Driving without Brakes/Traffic Light timing - do
not decrease the flow of traffic and has the
added benefit of smoothing out the flow of traffic
and eliminating rubber band stop and go jerking
motion that is often associated with traffic jams.
Hypermiling is not about driving one particular way
but about learning how to select and adapting
one of many diffrent energy efficient driving techniques
to a specific driving environment. Hence,
one could read a thick book on hypermiling
techniques but if one never practiced hypermiling
in the real world - one would never really understand
how to apply it in the real world.
Before I did grill block - I did extensive research on its
safety, why it worked, what kind of results to look for,
and what things should be monitored. Most of the
information I got on grill blocking was from PriusChat.com
from a Japanese Prius enthusiat called Ken. Ken had
engineering diagrams, tables, and charts for the 2010
Toyota Prius to back up his analysis and ssesessment
and he has a good reputation on PriusChat.com for
being technologically savvy, open, honest, and forthcoming.
He was one of the reasons I purchased a Prius.
I also would like to acknowledge the generous
photo contributions of "Spidey" as well. I must
say that I would not have even considered grill
blocking if it was not so throughly researched
and the information was so easily accessible.
The coverage of this technique that gave me
the courage to try it out. I have several documents
on the Toyota Prius thermal management system
works ( the link I provide previously on battery thermal
management is one of them) . I am pretty sure that
everything I've done so far is being safely done albeit
to the ill-informed and less technically savvy it does
look dangerous or atleast odd. I am not afraid
but encouraged. Given Toyota's engineering
reputation for reliablity - I don't think my Prius
is going to have too many problems. My previous
car was almost maintenance free for seven
years until it was hit by an aggressive driver - what
saved me was the reinforce driver's door panels.
The reason I was not endanger when I felt
a lost in traction due to the tires being over inflated
was that I had kept my speed down and I had
work to keep a much longer distance from the vehicle
in front to optimize a hypermiling technique called DWB.
and a Prius (regenerative braking ) technique I call
- a Regenerate,Crawl and Stop (RCS) which means
one maximizes the regenerative energy recovery
using the HSI/CHG indicator while avoiding the
use of my hydraulic brake way before I need to stop.
When the velocity drops in a RCS to about 15 mph
to 7 mph, the brake is released and the car is
allowed to crawl to a stopping point. The hope is that the condition
that requires a full stop will cease before the crawling
must end with a full complete stop (saving the
atleast some kinetic energy for the re-acceleration)
During the Regeneration part, pressure to the brakes
is medium so that the HSI/CHG indicator bar is
between the "C" and the "H" of the "CHG" bar.
During this regenerative process, if the tires appear
to be slipping then the driver switches from
electric generator resistance to the hydraulic
braking system by pressing the brakes down
hard to activate the hydraulic brakes - the
antilock brakes keep the braking pressure even.
When the Prius drops to a slow crawl, the tires
regains its grip on the road well before it needs
to stop.
My posting is not to convince people who are against
hypermiling to hypermile - but to record my
real world experience without biased and in detail.
My results have been modest. While I am no
fortune teller - I don't foresee any mechanical or legal
troubles for the first two years of my long term hypermiling
experiment. My first car a 1974 Chevy Vega lasted
11 years. My Second car a 1990 Honda Accord is still
running albeit someone else now owns it. I suspect
that my third car and many other Priuses will last
many years and will still be around when everyone agrees
that Global Peak Oil has already occured. :-)
or more.
Neo
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote in messagenews:elmop-B2A988....@news.eternal-september.org...
Grill blocking is superior to elmo's suggested thermostat damping
because limits heat loss by limiting the amount of cold air the
entire engine is exposed to. While damping the thermostat
would limit some heat loss via the coolant - it would be inadequate.
ISTM Toyota's engineers knew the payoff for redesigning
the thermostat was very low - so when Toyota needed to kept the
coolant warm - an insulated thermos bottle like device was
added to keep the coolant warms which heats up the Prius'
catalytic converters. Elmo's idea would be great if it really
would work - but sadly everything I've read seem to suggest
that it would work. Fortunately, grill blocking does work.
The Prius seem to be the most energy efficient when it is burning ag
1.00 gallon per hour
which is something akin to about 1200-1400 RPM and under the word
*ECO* on the HSI
system indicator bar.
However, When in the HSI indicator *power* mode thePrius energy
consumption rate can
be slightly higher than 2 gallons per hour ( you can monitor this with
a ScanGaugeII).
Neo
whoops! correction:
everything I've read seems to suggest that elmo's suggestion (to
modify the thermostat) would
not be able to compensate for thermal losses. Fortunately, grill
blocking does work.
>
> The Prius seem to be the most energy efficient when it is burning ag
> 1.00 gallon per hour which is something akin to about 1200-1400 RPM
> and under the word *ECO* on the HSI system indicator bar.
>
> However, When in the HSI indicator *power* mode thePrius energy
> consumption rate can be slightly higher than 2 gallons per hour
> ( you can monitor this with a ScanGaugeII)
There
Bruce Richmond
wrote:
> In article
> <fc417cfb-2385-4aef-914c-4ddbc329c...@m13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > Yes, refuse. You refuse to hear things that simply don't fit into your
> > > world of your rolling video game.
>
> > Owners have been doing this for over ten years and the engineers are
> > well aware of it. If they thought it was a problem I am sure they
> > would mention it in the owners manual.
>
For the same reason they include little things like warnings not to
shift into park while moving. If you do it after being warned not to
they are justified in not covering the damage.
> The engineers have spoken, for the record. They have nothing else to
> say, specifically.
>
> No reasonable person would expect the engineers to have any say, one way
> or another, for public consumption.
>
> Again, you're leaping to huge conclusions based on how you wish the
> world worked--without any actual facts at your disposal.
And again you are spewing BS.
> > > If your vision is truly as narrow as you describe, then it's no wonder
> > > you're as ignorant as you come across. Saving gas in and of itself, in
> > > a vacuum, is a fine idea--but it has to be integrated into the rest of
> > > the world.
>
> > And you ignore the fact that I listed things that would save gas that
> > I would not do because they didn't save enough to justify their cost.
>
> "justify their cost"? To WHOM?
To me. If I have to pay for them I get to decide if I want them or
not. They are not required by law.
> Are you now in charge of determining
> for me the cost *I* must bear so that YOU can save gas? Are you now in
> charge of determining that *I* must accept your wildly gyrating driving
> style and your out of spec suspension (yes, tires and their inflation
> are part of the suspension that the engineers craft very carefully)
> simply because YOU declare it to be "justified"???
Yes. If you don't like it you can go fuck yourself.
>
> I don't expect to be driving next to someone who is randomly speeding up
> and slowing down. That's not how the world works. But YOU have
> declared that it "shall be so" simply because YOU think it's
> "justified"??
Too bad fella but that is how the world works. There is no law
against what I am doing. If you don't want to be near me you can just
stay away.
> > > We live in a big world with lots of people. Deal with it.
>
> > I get along just fine in the real world.
>
> How would you know? Just because you never hear the curses of the
> people around you as you slip and slide in the wet, slow down way early
> for no apparent reason, and speed up and slow down in traffic again for
> no apparent reason, doesn't mean they're not there.
And just because you don't hear everyone calling you a stupid troll
doesn't mean that isn't happening also.
Bruce Richmond
> On 1/31/2011 5:18 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > In article
> > Bruce Richmond<bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> - Show quoted text -
And how much warranty do you think there is left on a 2001 with over
140k miles on it? Thank you for the good wishes anyway :)
Bruce Richmond
> Bruce Richmond <bsr3...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> > > Again, you're leaping to huge conclusions based on how you wish the
> > > world worked--without any actual facts at your disposal.
>
> > And again you are spewing BS.
>
>
> > > "justify their cost"? To WHOM?
>
> > To me.
>
>
> Got it.
Ok shit for brains, explain the cost I impose on the world by not
buying a block heater.
> > > Are you now in charge of determining
> > > for me the cost *I* must bear so that YOU can save gas? Are you now in
> > > charge of determining that *I* must accept your wildly gyrating driving
> > > style and your out of spec suspension (yes, tires and their inflation
> > > are part of the suspension that the engineers craft very carefully)
> > > simply because YOU declare it to be "justified"???
>
> > Yes. If you don't like it you can go fuck yourself.
>
> I can also maneuver myself so that you run into me. Or, even better, I
> can maneuver myself so that I interrupt your "driving style". I bet
> that really grinds your ass, when YOU can't do what YOU want--when the
> outside world interferes with YOU.
I'm sure you do that to others just to be an asshole, but you would
first have to find me before you could do it to me. So the ass being
ground here is yours aince you are powerless to do what you would like
to do. ;)~
> > > I don't expect to be driving next to someone who is randomly speeding up
> > > and slowing down. That's not how the world works. But YOU have
> > > declared that it "shall be so" simply because YOU think it's
> > > "justified"??
>
> > Too bad fella but that is how the world works.
>
> That's also how you get the shit beaten out of you, and how lawyers make
> money when they realize that you were actually the cause of the
> accidents you're involved in.
>
> So to sum it up: you are autistic.
And you're dreaming shit for brains.
Bruce Richmond
Thank you for the info. The tread looks open enough to make them a
reasonable all season tire. They say it can handle light snow.
The tires I am running are a bit more open but not much.
It would be interesting to know how much difference they give in mpg.
In this comparison of 4 tires at Tire Rack the difference between the
best and worst was 1.44% or less than 1 mpg for a 56 mpg Prius.