do it youself painting question.
rusty-...@webtv.net
never live to be mint again. I do not like to alter my cars dramaically
from the original but I rarely keep the origal color or the exact
interor pattern as some do. So I have considered doing all that myself
this time.
At my employement I have the use of a compressor and my father still has
the extra hose and a filter. That only leaves me with a paint gun to
buy.
Walmart sells a paint gun for automobile use for around $45. My question
is will that suit in everyones opition or would it gum up on me.
I am not looking to spend a lot of money so I do not want to waste money
on a gun unable to do the job. Would this gun work or if not can someone
tell me my cheapest option for a good gun?
rusty
BondoBill1
Each paint needs a different flow rate/needle, and yes a cheap gun can do as
well as an expensive gun, it is more the workmanship of the person behind the
gun than the gun.
These new paints that have hit the market in the last 36 months require a
really good gun to get everything to work perfectly. The other issue is
compressor, how much air does the gun need, and what can the compressor
deliver. The new thing (now reaquired by law in some states) is HVLP, and
rather than spraying at 35/45lbs, you spray at 3-5 lbs at the tip.
Yuo have nothing to loose buying a $45 gun, other than if it does not work you
buy a little better gun.
http://www.bondobilly.com/aindex.html
NOW WITH ONLINE ORDERING
1956 Goldenhawk Apparel and gifts. (56J Only Store Open)
Patriotic T-shirts and other neat stuff
Bondobilly and his All Girl Pit Crew
Jeff Rice
It will paint just fine, but won't last a long, long time.
Invest in a water separator, and get several of those water remover bubble
things that go on the air hose right before the gun.
HVLP is a good way to go if you have the compressor capacity and use bigger
hoses.
Hope it helps.
Jeff ( in the middle of just that right now..) Rice
<rusty-...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9953-3BF...@storefull-255.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
Lee
I have a brand new deVilbiss HVLP in the box. I bought it so I could
do really nice paint jobs. Truth be known, I STILL use my $29.95
Montgomery Wards (circa 1980) gun because it does such a damn fine
job. You don't need a really expensive gun as long as the one you do
have is in good shape and YOU are comfortable with it. Do some
practice panel painting on something that does not matter and I am
sure you will be fine.
On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:53:52 -0600 (CST), rusty-...@webtv.net
wrote:
Lee DeLaBarre
Daytona62
1960 Lark Hardtop
1962 Lark Daytona Convertible
1962 Lark Regal Convertible (Dad's Last New Studebaker)
1962 Lark Regal Convertible (When Done, Dad's Next New Studebaker)
1962 Lark 4-Door Sedan (Probable Parts Car)
1964 Lark 4-Door Sedan R1 Powered Y3 Police Car
1964 Cruiser (Dubbed the Survivor II)
(2) Studebaker Factory Parts Train Cars
Oldcarfart
>From: rusty-...@webtv.net
>Walmart sells a paint gun for automobile use for around $45. My question
>is will that suit in everyones opition or would it gum up on me.
>I am not looking to spend a lot of money so I do not want to waste money
>on a gun unable to do the job. Would this gun work or if not can someone
>tell me my cheapest option for a good gun?
buy the time you buy paint, reducer, sand paper, primer, etc, etc it is cheaper
to go to a Earl Schibe type place, espcially if it don't come out right and you
have to do it again, and now you have spent twice as much.
James
remove as much trim as possible.Even with the high dollar paint,I doubt
it would last like the old enamels.Clearcoat tends to turn cloudy and
flake after a few years.Maybe the newest stuff will hold up better,but
factory finshes in general haven't held up well for the past 15-20
years.
Jim Turner
snip
Even with the high dollar paint,I doubt
it would last like the old enamels.Clearcoat tends to turn cloudy and
flake after a few years
snip
James, the new paints, including base coat clearcoats, hold up much better
than the enamels of years ago! I have never had a problem in the shop with
peeling clearcoats, (ford, gm and chrysler all have on new cars) when the
surface is prepared properly, and what ever manufacturers paint you use,
(they are all good) as long as you use their products from the etching
primer to the clearcoat, and follow the instructions on the can, you will
not have a problem.
The biggest problem I have seen from the "do it yourself" experts, they
always say to sand the primer with 600 grit paper before painting. WRONG,
600 grit is too fine, and the paint will not bite into the primers.
The finest grit I have ever used on primer is 400 grit wet sanded with a
block, and a lot of soapy water.
I painted my Avanti in 1981 with Dupont Centauri, single stage acrylic
enamel, until I let it sit outside for a summer, 2 years ago, it still
looked good, and polished up decent.
I plan on re painting it this winter, and will probably go with a urethane,
haven't decided if I will clear coat it or not. Just depends on the mood I'm
in when I get ready!
I worked at a shop out in So. Cal. in the late 80's, we always sent our
complete paint jobs to "one day body and paint" We prepped them and supplied
the paint, they looked great, and held up well.
Jim Turner
Tom M.
Have you had any experience with the 3M dry primer sanding system? I was
reading about it on their web page earlier and I am very intrigued! It
almost sounds too good to be true!?
http://www.3m.com/us/auto_marine_aero/aad/solutions/professional/dryprimer/i
ndex.jhtml
Tom
"Jim Turner" <diskb...@home.com> wrote in message
news:CyDL7.173425$My2.10...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
randee
coat clear coat before I got it by the previous owner. He took a third
at the Indy meet with the car and it has not been painted since and it
still looks virtually like when it was painted (some of the striping it
flaking). That would have been what, somewhere in the '84-87' time
frame.
However I do not think the new paints look near as good as a
nitrocellulose lacquer paint. They do not have the three dimensional
effect of, say, the Dupont Duco. Altho nothing provides the depth of
finish of Duco, I would be the first to admit nitro lacquers are not a
terrible long lived paint, even with plenty of carnauba. They are
however, very easy for the amateur auto or piano restorer to apply.
--
wf.
Wayne Flowers
Randee Greenwald
ran...@zianet.com
Topher
Oldcarfart
>From: "Jim Turner"
> I worked at a shop out in So. Cal. in the late 80's, we always sent our
>complete paint jobs to "one day body and paint" We prepped them and supplied
>the paint, they looked great, and held up well.
the prep is the trick, I have had many a $99.95 paint job look like a $1500.00
paint job. I remove all I can, do all the preps, and do the detail and clean
up all parts before re-install.
Oldcarfart
>Altho nothing provides the depth of
>finish of Duco, I would be the first to admit nitro lacquers are not a
>terrible long lived paint, even with plenty of carnauba. They are
>however, very easy for the amateur auto or piano restorer to apply.
I still use acrylic enamels with a hardener (I usually use less hardener than
called for and it seem to resist stone chips better) and find it hard to beat.
Jim Turner
We use that to color sand before buffing, 1500-2000 grit dry. I would not
use it (even 400 grit) to sand before painting, as a DA sander is NOT a
block! The longer the block, the straighter the panel. Besides, I'm still a
little old fashioned, I prefer wet sanding, as when I wet sand and finish a
panel, I wash it down with soap and water, and hit the underside wand jambs
with the hose, washes out a lot of dirt,trash etc. makes a cleaner job in
the end!
Jim Turner
T or V
process? I don't recall if we had this discussion before but you know how us
older folks are. If you don't, ask Harbit. Back to subject at hand. The
early Imron sure had durability but those that protect us from ourselves
made it cost prohibitive. Is polyurethane paint gone or just not used
anymore? I have noticed that newer vehicles have less luster and
durability and scratch/chip resistance over time.
Ray, your opinions are welcome also. Guys, these are not loaded
questions although I have some ideas but not being qualified in paint and
body maybe you can give us the straight skinny.
Dave L, what did you use on the coupe and why?
KemTone and a roller worked good on my tractor but them was the good old
days,
Snurdly
Dave Lester
First, let me say that I, too, am from the old school, and don't like
change. Like Calvin, I prefer Acrylic Enamels. I do my best work with PPG
Delstar... love the stuff!
Now, to answer your question. <G> We used a 3 stage... basecoat, tinted
clear coat, and clear, 3 coats each. Why? Several reasons. First, the
color I choose is a Chrysler Candy Apple Red, found on late models. Such
can't be mixed with a single stage. I even considered selecting another
color. But, Craig, the body man that helped me with the project, is NOT
from the old school. Since he uses the new products daily, he is
comfortable with them, and gave me the old line I got so tired of
hearing..., "If yer gonna do it, do it right."
He and his associates got quite a kick out of teasing me about using Delstar
last week on a project I was doing last week for the local Lion's club.
Painted a big 'ol mail box Lion yellow for their eye glass collection
project. I was yeller from head to toe when I got done, even though I was
in a well vented paint booth. This was mostly due to turning up the
pressure and narrowing the fan to shoot inside the thing, meaning that all
paint that didn't stick to the project came right out of the box onto me.
Enamels do seem to be much more "sticky" than a lot of paints, resulting in
over spray on everything for several feet around. They also dry much
slower, meaning they act as a magnet for every dust particle and bug in the
area.
Back to the question... Having now used base/clear systems, I do see some
advantages, and am beginning to feel the system does offer some advantages,
and is of equal quality IF DONE PROPERLY. Too much base, too little clear
coat is a problem, as well as not following instructions on flash times,
etc. Do it right, color sand and polish the finished product, and I think
the durability, depth and shine equals the old paint.
--
Dave Lester and the "Ain't This the Pits?" Crew
Home of the Internationally Renowned Studebaker Under Construction
http://www.provalue.net/studes
Rhyser
Centari.
I use a Sharp gun with the complete nozzle set for BC/CC, and it is the only
way to go when using very expensive paints.
I think for Rusty though, don't forget when painting to be really successful,
you need a decent area to paint. Dirt and bugs are your mortal enemy. Having a
clean area that is well lighted is paramount. If you don't have this, do the
prep work and sent it out to MACCO.
Finally, some of the newer paints and solvents are REALLY bad for you. I use an
outside air supply that I also got from TIP and won't spray anything without
it. Your health is more important than anything else!
Good Luck!
Rhys
1966 Cruiser
1966 Commander
1949 2r5
RGrossHD
>using
>Centari.
>
>I use a Sharp gun with the complete nozzle set for BC/CC, and it is the only
>way to go when using very expensive paints.
Rhys,
I have purchased a TIP Gold Medal -95 HVLP paint outfit and only have the 1
quart cup gun that came with the system. When the purchase was made I also
bought a full set of nozzles, needles, and air caps. I have never used the
system and I am concerned that the paint atomization provided by the standard
gun might be insufficient for a good finish.
I saw that you stated that you were using a Sharpe gun. I have used standard
high pressure Sharpe guns in conjunction with a large compressor in the past
with very good results. Are you using a compressor for the air source or do
you have a Sharpe gun that utilizes the TIP HVLP turbine as the air source?
Randy
Jim Turner
GREAT point! a lot of the new paints have isocyanates (sp) which can and
will kill you if you breathe them in too much.
A paint booth and fresh air system is required. I have been known to fire a
painter or two, that refuse to use proper safety equipment!
Jim Turner
Ron Dame
truck... I started throwing away receipts after $1,000. And it's a
really nice job, but $1,000 even would have bought me a better job. A
lot of materials end up wasted, that would not if you did this for a
living... 1/2 gallons of reducers and thinners, 3/4 can of CC hardner,
etc.
Then again, I have the satisfaction of knowing that all the boo-boos
are mine, and not some schmuck I can bi%^& at. <G>
Ron
JETman
Yes, and you only hafta do it once....
--
Regards,
JT (Getting lazier in Austin, Texas)
Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4.......
CEECAB
process? >>
If you mean me-- its easy- the painter who says he is dying to do my coupe- and
is VERY good- has a *thang* for BC/CC and I just know he's gonna say- *Jim-
strip that sucker*- and I am NOT into stripping that car- no way- no how!
Besides- most of the enamel is good but also black which is a bitch to blend
and match
As far as durabilty- i have no clue which is better. this 20 year old enamel
job still shines as evidenced by the pictures you saw
The base coat on my 90 T-bird went dull as hell by 95---- flat is more the word
Studegary
>word
>
The original paint job on the '89 T-bird that I bought new (2/23/89) still
looks like a new car. It is Twilight Blue (dark). Most everything else on the
car is original also, except I replaced front brake pads at 78K because they
were getting thin. Gary Lindstrom
Rhyser
>quart cup gun that came with the system. When the purchase was made I also
>bought a full set of nozzles, needles, and air caps. I have never used the
>system and I am concerned that the paint atomization provided by the standard
>gun might be insufficient for a good finish.
>
Randy, I use the TIP HVLP with great results and no problem with proper
atomization (at least using the Centari). The one quart gun is easy to clean,
and I always know the air source is free of Oil or water.
>I saw that you stated that you were using a Sharpe gun. I have used standard
>high pressure Sharpe guns in conjunction with a large compressor in the past
>with very good results. Are you using a compressor for the air source or do
>you have a Sharpe gun that utilizes the TIP HVLP turbine as the air source?
I use the Sharpe gun for BC/CC jobs, but I use an "oil-less" 30 gal air
compressor that is only used for that purpose. So no, the TIP air unit does not
work with the Sharpe gun.
After having trouble with "dirty" air, having a dedicated air compressor is the
best way to go (along with it's own hose). Our shop air lines just have too
much junk for regular separators or those inexpensive plastic filters to
handle.
In all candor, I really like the HVLP as it has a lot less over-spray due to
the lower pressure. When you use a high pressure gun, I learned the hard way,
how good of a masking job I can do (I can't wrap presents either <g>)
I can't claim to be an expert painter, but like Jim said "When I do it, I know
all those imperfections are mine, and I'm proud of them." And if anyone gives
you any grief about a paint run....just tell them the paint job looks so good -
it's crying!
Lee
ago, a buddy of mine was getting married and wanted his '57 chev HT
painted up pretty for the get away car. Try as we might, we could not
come up with an acceptable place to paint and ended up using an old,
dirt floored, corn crib-type barn in the middle of an Indiana summer.
I am sure you all know how bad the bugs are around here!
Anyway, on paint night we hosed down the walls and dampened the dirt
floor in the barn, set of 6 bug bombs, waited an hour and then rolled
the car in. Painted it wiht my $29.95 Montgomery Wards gun and a
borrowed construction site portable compressor. The paint job turned
out to be and outstanding, flawless job wiht no runs, no dirt and no
bugs.
Don't be afraid to try it! Hell, the worst that can happen is some
more sanding and shooting it again.
Lee DeLaBarre
TedHarbit
>older folks are. If you don't, ask Harbit.>
Hey! Just because when I was two months old I was twice your age doesn't mean
it stays that way!
Ted
Loy
acrylic enamel and stay away from BC/CC. Just my two centavos worth.
Loy Daniel
'37 J5, '42 President LC, '49 2R10, '50 Champion 2 Door,
'55 President HT, '55 Commander Coupe, '59 Silver Hawk,
'60 Lark 2 Door, '63 R1 GT, '63 R2 Avanti.
HIGH PLAINS STUDEBAKER DRIVERS CLUB
http://clubs.hemmings.com/hpsdc/
JETman
Loy wrote:
>
> If it is gonna be out in the sun much...you might want to REALLY consider
> acrylic enamel and stay away from BC/CC. Just my two centavos worth.
>
> Loy Daniel
>
My sentiments exactly. Why do all the extra work when 99% of the
observers won't know the difference?
--
Regards,
JT (Residing in Austin, Texas)
randee
all. Looking into a good nitro job is like looking at a 3 dimensional
mirror image. If you saw the Great Performances program with Marizio
Pollini at Carnegie Hall a couple months ago on PBS and saw the
reflection of his hands in that Steinway, that's the finish I mean.
Years ago, in another life so to speak, I used to do a lot of judging.
Best paint job I ever judged was a two tone red/maroon one at a Sears
Grand Classic many, many moons ago. There was one fellow taking a lot
of pictures of the car, so I commented to him on how nice a restoration
I thought it was. To make a long story short it turns out the fellow
photographing the car was the painter. I remember to this day his
description of how he did the Duco job on it (he was on of the few who
gasoline sands). Don't remember that painter's name now, but came to
find out he had quite a reputation among the Classic Car folk. Even
back when this took place decades ago I'm sure that it was a five digit
paint job. The car was a 'J', Murphy roadster. I'm sure I have a slide
of it myself somewhere.
--
randee
fangled lacquers............
Dave Lester wrote:
>
> > Dave L, what did you use on the coupe and why?
>
> First, let me say that I, too, am from the old school, and don't like
> change. Like Calvin, I prefer Acrylic Enamels. I do my best work with PPG
> Delstar... love the stuff!
>
>
Dave Lester
> fangled lacquers............
Reckon I'm in the middle school, then. <G>
James
rusty-...@webtv.net
this car to someone who has done this type of thing before, yet if I do
I shall never learn to do anything myself. The place that I shall most
likely be painting in is by no means a painting booth but is a little
better than a shed with a dirt floor. There is a large compressor, two
bays, two work rooms, and high ceilings which normally accomidate trucks
and bobcats. There is no ventalization other than leaving a bay door
open. The last car I had painted was with imron, set out in the sun for
ten years, and only needed a wax for the last year. I have never liked
clear coat but am undecided on the right paint just yet. I am thinking
about a charcoal grey with a strip or two painted down the side. I shall
go ahead with the gun though.
rusty
Lee
I am VERY glad you are going to do it yourself! The only way you are
going to learn is to try it and, if you make a mistake or two, learn
along the way.
I have painted lacquer, plain old acrylic enamel and some BC/CC stuff
and like them all. For ease, the enamel was the best and that is what
I have shot the most of. The guys at the local paint stores here were
always very helpful and made sure I had just what I needed to do the
job start to finish.
If you have a calm day and wet the floor down enough to settle the
dust you should be fine. Usually, if it is a dirty environment, I
will get some cheap plastic drop cloths or visqueen and staple it to
the walls and ceiling. It really helps with dust falling off those
surfaces once you start painting and moving air around. Also, throw
a log chain over the axle and let it rest on the floor. I don't know
if this REALLY helps eliminate the static electricity that tends to
draw dirt to the car or not, but I have always had better finishes
(less crap in the paint) than when I did not do it.
On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:37:55 -0600 (CST), rusty-...@webtv.net
wrote:
Lee DeLaBarre
Nick Tosie
> Jim,
> Have you had any experience with the 3M dry primer sanding system? I was
> reading about it on their web page earlier and I am very intrigued! It
> almost sounds too good to be true!?
>
> http://www.3m.com/us/auto_marine_aero/aad/solutions/professional/dryprimer/i
> ndex.jhtml
>
> Tom
>
See the current issue of Southern Rodder, has a nice article in there,
looks like a good product.
Nick
Nathan J. Nagel
Gasoline sanding? what does that accomplish that wet sanding doesn't
do?
just curious
nate
(I suppose any power tools would have to be air powered...)
randee
one to answer the question as to how gasoline sanding is better than
water sanding, altho I suspect the paint may absorb a bit of the water
from water sanding. In any case, I have had at least a half dozen
painters tell me over the years that gasoline sanding is the way to go.
One of those was the fellow who did that 'J'. Another, who's name I
also forget, was a painter in Ypsilanti who used to do show cars (he did
a beautiful job on a '30's 57SC). In his case I actually saw him do
some sanding that way. He was a near neighbor of Wilbur Kelly, a frame
man from Ypsi that I have mentioned in the past. If anybody on the list
from that area remembers Wilbur, maybe they'll remember which painter
I'm talking about. Alas, he gave up show cars and built a commercial
production paint facility (painting parts for Sears, and Lionel
trains). A couple more painters I met over the years that mentioned
gasoline sanding were piano restoration guys.
At least three of these guys had basically one man shops so there would
not be anyone with a power tool going while they were sanding.
Joe Woody Woodpecker
paint gun. There are some things to consider in buying a paint gun.
BLEEDER VS. NON-BLEEDER Do you want a bleeder or non-bleeder type of
gun. A bleeder gun will allow air to pass to the nozzle without
allowing paint in the first step of pulling back the trigger. The
second step will allow the paint. Most professionals use a bleeder gun
as they keep the air flow on and just bring in the paint. Kinda like
crop dusting.. A non-bleeder brings up paint and air at the same time.
PRESSURE VS. SIPHON VS. GRAVITY FEED Do you want pressure, siphon or
gravity feed. Pressure feed has air that forces the paint from the cup.
Siphon sucks it up and gravity has the cup above the gun and paint flows
into the gun by gravity.
INTERNAL VS. EXTERNAL MIX Do you want internal or external mix for the
paint and air. This will be the type of fluid tip you will be using and
most guns will have external mix.
Normally a gun costing around $100 is usually the best buy as it has all
these features built in. Be sure to check out the availability of
replacement parts and repair kits.
You need to check your spray pattern. It should be a narrow oval with
equal amounts on both sides and no narrow spot in the middle. Using
thinner or primer to check your paint patterns is useful. Changing the
way the fluid tip is on the gun can make the pattern horizontal or
vertical. Your gun should come with pattern problems and what they look
like. Sometimes the gun may need cleaned in order to correct a pattern.
Always clean the gun after use, and if that isn't possible right away,
spray lacquer thinner through the gun until you can get to it, but never
let it go over night.
Use all paints and primers from one company. Some paints and primers do
not mix and the paint may have a chemical reaction. I painted my Avanti
with an enamel primer, lacquer paint and Imron clear coat and the
horizontal surfaces flaked off after 1-2 years. This was recommended by
DuPont, but not by the DuPont dealers. The dealer gets good feedback
from the users it supplies paint to.
Dark priers allow the areas where the dings and nicks and other
imperfections to be noticed more quickly. Dark primers are used with
dark paint. Spray paint in a can can be used as a guide coat to do the
same thing as a dark primer would do. When working with bondo, the
bondo should not be more than 3/32 - 1/4" in 30% of your area. The more
bondo in an area, the more likely you are to have cracks in an area long
after you applied your trophy winning paint job. Use a magnate after
the area has had the bondo installed and ready to prime. The magnet
should stick to the body through the bondo.
Wet sand at 280 and 400. Don't block sand this. Your hand should
'feel' the curve of the body and you will e able to feel any
imperfections. If you need to really 'feel' the body after it has been
sanded and ready for paint, use a clean cotton rag. You will feel
everything under it. Be sure to use a tack rag before any prier or
paint is ready to apply. If you want to use a 600 grit, I wouldn't go
any higher than that.
Taping can be easy if you take the wide 2" masking tape and overlap both
the area to be painted and the area to be taped. Then using a sharp
single side razor blade, cut at the line where the two areas should be
divided and remove the tape over the area to be painted.
A powerful exhaust fan and a filter system should be used. If you plan
on painting in a shop without any exhaust fan or filter you're asking
for trouble. (I should know. I painted a car black in my garage and
the next day I had black paint dust all over everything, even the car.)
The fine paint dust that never made it to the car or dried during the
painting process will then settle on you beautiful body work and you'll
have a car that looks like you moulded it with 80 grit sand paper.
You might even consider a few classes at the local Community College.
Some colleges have Adult Ed classes and they would be in the need of
having cars to work on and need paint. If your car is ready at that
time, you might get it in to be painted. Other possibilities are that
you can talk a local auto body shop into using their paint booth for a
few bucks.
--
rusty-...@webtv.net wrote
I have been considering the idea of painting my own car since it will
never live to be mint again. I do not like to alter my cars dramatically
from the original but I rarely keep the original color or the exact
interior pattern as some do. So I have considered doing all that myself
this time.
At my employment I have the use of a compressor and my father still has
the extra hose and a filter. That only leaves me with a paint gun to
buy.
Wal-mart sells a paint gun for automobile use for around $45. My
question is will that suit in everyone's option or would it gum up on
me. I am not looking to spend a lot of money so I do not want to waste
money on a gun unable to do the job. Would this gun work or if not can
someone tell me my cheapest option for a good gun?
rusty
--
Woody