Oil clearance

[Jerry Forrester]

Any of ya'll ever run into the problem of too much oil clearance on the cam
with new bearings installed?
Early '62 259 block and has never been built before.
New Ted Harbit cam and new bearings.
Clearances mearsures from .004 to .0055. Should be down in the .002 range.
I've had enough engines with low oil pressure when the engine is hot and
idling. This time I want one with good oil pressure at ALL times.
Jerry (trying to keep the clearances down on the low side of the specs)
Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

[keith_k...@wed.dresser.com]

Write down your dimensions and call Ted. I would suspect the cam
journal size is the main issue. He will know how to proceed.

In response:

[Jerry Forrester]

I've already been in contact with Ted. That is where all the parts came
from. He and I are trying to solve the problem but the more heads that know
about the problem the more likely a solution will be found. Ted is
measureing all the R1-2 cams he has to try to find me one that is closer to
the factory specs. And also, we are going to try a different brand name on
the cam bearings. Everything is mic'ing out of specs. The installed cam
bearings are mic'ing too big and the reground cam is too small.

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

<keith_k...@wed.dresser.com> wrote in message
news:1106247772....@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[keith_k...@wed.dresser.com]

With your connections and experience, maybe plating the bearing
journals back up to the high side is the answer(?) KK

back again to:

[Jerry Forrester]

I thought about that. A friend that is retired from Delta Airlines and used
to work in their machine shop said it was common place for them to plate the
outside of a bushing or bearing and then turn it down to the correct size.
But he said they used a cadium plating instead of the nickle I would have to
use. Besides all that, as tight as the cam bearings fit in the block, I
think all the plating would shear off as the bearings are pressed into
place. But then of course, there's always the liquid nitrogen trick.

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

<keith_k...@wed.dresser.com> wrote in message
news:1106254009.2...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

[Jerry Forrester]

Problem solved.<G>
Or at least it soon will be.
Did ya'll know that they make undersize cam bearings? I didn't. Our friendly
NG'er AJ clued me in on this one. I have bought many antique engine parts
from Egge Machine Co. in the past and AJ advised me to give them a call.
They informed me that they have Studebaker V8 cam bearings in .001, .002 and
.010 under size. I ordered a set of .010's and the friendly local
performance machine shop (Goza Auto Parts & Machine, Acworth, Ga.) is going
to grind the cam journals to fit the under size bearings. I'll install the
bearings first and then he can grind each journal to fit the individual
bearing sizes.

Today was a good day, I lurned sumpin.<G>

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

"Jerry Forrester" <forr62...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:wnVHd.30565$vh....@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

[Deepnhock]

That sounds like a strange way to do that Jerry.
What if the rear bearing is bigger than the front bearing, and he grinds
the cam accordingly.
Then how would you get the big rear journal through a smaller front hole
(shut up Calvin <lol>)...
I would think the cam journals should all match and that the cam bearings
should be bought in a matched correctly sized set..
Jeff (just an opinion) Rice

Re: Oil clearance
by "Jerry Forrester" <forr62...@bellsouth.net> Jan 20, 2005 at 05:47
PM

[Joel]

A better way to go may be to resize the undersize cam bearings once
installed. After checking that they are resizable. A little more
trouble, but will likely allow you to use a standard cam in the future.

But the scenario that Jeff points out will not be a problem, as Jerry
did propose to use a complete set of .010 undersize bearings.

Joel

[Grumpy au Contraire]

Sorta like building that yacht in the basement, eh?

<G>

JT

[for...@bellsouth.net]

Well that idea didn't work. I guess I didn't lurn sumpin afterall, the
bearings came in and the a$$hole sent me rod bearings. I called him and
he said "We don't have undersize cam bearings". I have witnesses here
to backup my story that I asked for cam bearings to start with and NOT
rod bearings. I called Ted back and told him to go go ahead and send me
a set of Clevite bearings. We'll see if a different brand name makes a
difference.

thanks,
Jerry Forrester

[Jerry Forrester]

Well, Ted sent me a new set of Clevite77 bearings. Installed them and there
is no change (ok, a quarter thousants tighter but still nowhere's near tight
enought) from the Dura-Bond bearings. I have an email into Dura-Bond Bearing
Co. to see if they can help me with the problem. I sent the mail to the 24
hours ago and haven't got anything back from them yet. Maybe I need to call
'em.
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

<for...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1106937547....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...

[Gordon Richmond]

Jerry,

Can you hard-chrome and centerless grind the cam journals back to
standard size?

Used to be a shop in Calgary called Alberta Chrome and Grinding, which
offered that kind of work on crankshafts and machine parts.

Gord Richmond

[dj...@comcast.net]

On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:14:54 GMT, Gordon Richmond
<rich...@telusplanet.net> wrote:

>Jerry,
>
>Can you hard-chrome and centerless grind the cam journals back to
>standard size?
>

Chroming and grinding is a good way to go, If the price does not get
our of hand.
I used to work for a manufacturer of precision maching tool spindles,
and we did that all the time. Issues may be (1) grinding the journals
down before chroming, so sufficient material will remain at finished
size and (2) getting chrome to "stick" to old cast iron

[Jerry Forrester]

I still have not resolved my cam bearing oil clearance problem.
I am at the point of going with a 1986 Tuned Port 350/700R4 combo I have in
a Vette parts car I have out back.
What do all ya'll think about that?

--
thanks,
Jerry (ducking for cover, but serious) Forrester

[Transtar60]

Guess!<GGGGGG>

[Lee]

Well Jerry, if YOU are happy with it and it gets you to the meets and
back, I'm all for it <G>

Lee DeLaBarre
Daytona62

[VPSkelly]

>From: "Jerry Forrester"

>I am at the point of going with a 1986 Tuned Port 350/700R4 combo

I don't think I'd do it exactly like that. <G>

[bob40]

Why not?

Bob(buildwhatyawantyourownway)40

[Transtar60]

Maybe you are worrying about it too much??
My 5E13 has about 9 lbs oil pressure at idle hot, 35-40 psi at speed(up
to 75mph). Does seem to bother it much. Starts right up everytime.
Been like that since I bought it 10 years ago in February.

[Transtar60]

Its a 259 V8

Does NOT seem to bother it much. Starts right up everytime.

Been like that since I bought it 10 years ago in February.

[Studeski]

Jerry Forrester wrote:
> I still have not resolved my cam bearing oil clearance problem.
> I am at the point of going with a 1986 Tuned Port 350/700R4 combo I have in
> a Vette parts car I have out back.
> What do all ya'll think about that?
>

So who says there is a cam bearing oil clearance problem?

What kind of oil pressure are you running.

A USED Chebby? Pretty soon you'll be able to buy 'em new at Walmart for
$99.95.<G>

--
Studeski
Claude Chmielewski
clau...@netzero.com
http://www.studeski.com
Fillmore, Wisconsin
1947 M16 Truck
1962 GT Hawk
1963 Lark
1964 Commander Wagonaire

[Dexter]

Smokey Yunick says you need 10 lbs of oil pressure per 1000 RPMs.
"Transtar60" <transt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:EXaMd.6356$S3....@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...

[Gordon Richmond]

Jerry,

How did you measure the oil clearance on your cam bearings? Inside
mike on the installed bearings, and outside mike on the cam journals?

I don't see how one could use Plasti-gage for came bearings.

I'm just wondering if a systematic measurement error has led you to
believe that there is a problem where none really exists.

Gord Richmond

[Jeff Rice]

He didn't say it recently <sad g>

"Dexter" wrote...

[Jerry Forrester]

Well Gord, if you mic the inside of the installed cam bearings and then mic
the cam journals and then substract the smaller number from the larger
number, you should get the oil clearance. I have .0045 clearance on the
front journal and .0055 on the #5 journal.

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

"Gordon Richmond" <rich...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:7vh30197vq3m8ss38...@4ax.com...

[Studeski]

Jerry Forrester wrote:
> Well Gord, if you mic the inside of the installed cam bearings and then mic
> the cam journals and then substract the smaller number from the larger
> number, you should get the oil clearance. I have .0045 clearance on the
> front journal and .0055 on the #5 journal.
>

At that rate, if you slip the cam in dry it ought to rattle up and down.
A yard stick won't work for that, Jerry <G>
I would check with that inside mike at least 3 times. I doubt you have a
problem there.

What was your oil pressure?

[Gordon Richmond]

Well, are you sure the two mikes agree with one another? Have you
tried setting the inside mike to say, 1.750" and measuring it with the
outside mike?

How is the clearance spec'ed in the shop manual? Is the oil clearance
specified as the difference in diameters of the journal vs. bearing,
or by the difference in radius? If the book goes by radius, then your
.0055 clearance becomes .00275, and that doesn't sound near as bad.
<G>

I don't know how many times I've tried to do something, only to have
somebody else point out that I started from a faulty assumption. Then
I have a Homer moment.

Gord Richmond

[Jerry Forrester]

It does rattle up and down, that's what started all this.
I've checked it about 10 times. 4 different planes.
Kind of hard to check the oil pressure when the only thing in the block is
cam bearings. <G>

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

"Studeski" <clau...@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:4202dc2b$0$19750$18fe...@news.ticon.net...

[Jerry Forrester]

!955 Studebaker manual says:
Camshaft bearing clearance,
#1 journal.... 0.00075"-0.00225", I have 0.00425"
#2 journal.... 0.001"-0.00275", I have 0.004"
#3 journal.... 0.001"-0.00275", I have 0.00425"
#4 journal.... 0.001"-0.00275", I have 0.004"
#5 journal.... 0.001"-0.00275, I have 0.0055"

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

"Gordon Richmond" <rich...@telusplanet.net> wrote in message

news:f6q5015dtf2n8a5ug...@4ax.com...

[oldcarfart]

I am not trying to be a smart-ass (this time only!) but your clearances
look consistant, could it be a bum grind on the cam? and with the
clearances you show, just how much oil pressure do you think you are
loosing thru this gap? Why not check anouther set of bearings and if
the same just put the damn thing together!

[Jerry Forrester]

The reground R cam is from Ted and is right on specs.
The first set of bearings were Dura-Bond brand, then Ted sent me a set of
Clevite77 brand and they were installed and checked the same.
I think you are right Calvin. I'll JUST PUT THE DAMN THING TOGETHER. <G>

--
thanks,
Jerry Forrester

remove 'no spam' to respond

"oldcarfart" <oldca...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107529969.5...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...

[Studeski]

Jerry Forrester wrote:
> It does rattle up and down, that's what started all this.
> I've checked it about 10 times. 4 different planes.
> Kind of hard to check the oil pressure when the only thing in the block is
> cam bearings. <G>
>

Jerry,
When you check how loose the cam is, hold your head still.<G> yuk, yuk

I meant what was the oil pressure before you took it apart?

As I recall those cam bearings don't have grooves in them, so the cam is
riding over the oil feed gallery anyway.