2010 Civic LX: 30,000 Mile Service: "E Service": Ripoff?

[Steve]

Hi,

I own a 2010 Honda Civic.

I went to have my oil changed last night.

The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000
mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want
to go ahead and do it now?

Price? $590 + tax !!!!

I can never recall a tuneup being that much and this is what it sounds
like, a fancy tuneup.

I'm going to check my owners manual and I will likely get it
done as I don't like messing with factory recommendations, but this
feels like a rip off

Is it?

Steve

[Douglas C. Neidermeyer]

Me? I'd wait for the Maintenance Minder to tell me it was time for
service-- and definitely not do it early at the urging of some express
mechanic (read: newest, least skilled guy in the shop). I'd also confirm
what an E service entailed in the owner's manual. I live in a large
metro area that has several Honda dealers so prices vary considerably
and promotional offers abound.

--
If politicians would spend more time screwing hookers and less time
screwing taxpayers we would all be much better off -- hookers included.
---Neal Boortz

[Howard Lester]

"Steve" wrote

> The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000
> mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want
> to go ahead and do it now?
>
> Price? $590 + tax !!!!

I'd say it's a ripoff. I would never pay that much for a "major service";
that's what the 30,000 mile mark has long been considered. First wait until
you reach 30,000 miles. Ask them for a list of all that they will do for the
service. Compare their list with what you see in your manual. That'll give
you your first clue. Regardless what you find out, figure the service should
cost no more than maybe about $200 or so. Of course it depends on what they
actually replace. If it's just oil and filter and "check and inspect" about
43 items, the cost should be far less.

My last major service (60,000) was $244 at an upstate NY independent garage
that specializes in Hondas. But that was for an Accord, and more is charged
for Accords than for Civics -- at least at a dealership. See if you can find
an independent garage that specializes in Hondas. Make friends with them.

[NotMe]

"Steve" <tink...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

I'd ask for a detailed break down on what's offered vs. require/recommended
by Honda. This with an eye toward puff services such as refreshing the air
in the tires (and no that's not a joke as we did have that happen to one of
our hospice patients). One other classis is filling the tires with 'dry
nitrogen'.

[JRStern]

Don't you have the maintenance minder on that? If so, I'm pretty sure
it won't trigger for the next maintenance until the oil goes again,
which is going to be over 6,000 miles or six months.

But they do put a fat maintenance even on the 2010s around there, or
at least did on my 2010 Accord, replace engine and cabin air filters
for obscene prices, and generally dork around even on just the
recommended service - and some like the air filters are optional but
likely to be needed.

I forget what I paid, I think it was less than that.


... or was that even my 2010 at all, maybe I'm remembering back to the
2007 that I did put some extra miles on, so did the big service at 36k
miles? I should really pay more attention, huh.

J.

[JRStern]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 21:00:39 -0400, "Elmo P. Shagnasty"
<el...@nastydesigns.com> wrote:

>In article <2tt598lrpd873rm6j...@4ax.com>,

> JRStern <JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>
>> But they do put a fat maintenance even on the 2010s around there, or
>> at least did on my 2010 Accord, replace engine and cabin air filters
>> for obscene prices, and generally dork around even on just the
>> recommended service - and some like the air filters are optional but
>> likely to be needed.
>>
>> I forget what I paid, I think it was less than that.
>

>...says the guy who thinks it's more economical to replace his car at
>80K miles than to perform maintenance on it and keep running it.

36k miles.

J.

[jim beam]

are you talking about the "express" mechanic at the dealer or at iffy
lube? if the latter, just ignore them. if the former, the first thing
you need to learn [from reading the owner's manual] is that you are NOT
required to take the car to a dealer for service to maintain the
warranty. the second is that the maintenance minder dictates the
schedule, not the dealer's desire to empty your wallet.

as you will learn by reading, there is almost nothing to do on that
honda at that mileage other than keep up with oil changes, make sure
you're not losing any fluids, and visually inspect the rest of the
vehicle to make sure nothing's broken.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

On 11/01/2012 06:00 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article<2tt598lrpd873rm6j...@4ax.com>,
> JRStern<JRS...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
>

>> But they do put a fat maintenance even on the 2010s around there, or
>> at least did on my 2010 Accord, replace engine and cabin air filters
>> for obscene prices, and generally dork around even on just the
>> recommended service - and some like the air filters are optional but
>> likely to be needed.
>>
>> I forget what I paid, I think it was less than that.
>

> ...says the guy who thinks it's more economical to replace his car at
> 80K miles than to perform maintenance on it and keep running it.

i think he finally admitted that it's not economics, just "new, shiny"
syndrome. or maybe he's just a patriot trying to help the economy
recover by donating his money to needy financial institutions?


--
fact check required

[tww1491]

"Steve" wrote in message news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

Pretty high. The 30K service for my wife's 09 CRV was $400.00 -- included
transmission drain and brake fluid change.

[MLD]

"Steve" <tink...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

Don't know about Honda. I have a Toyota and as part of the oil change
service at the Dealers they do what they call a "Multi-
Service Check". It covers just about every maintenance check in the manual
for all mileages. Every item is checked as either "OK, Should Be Done or
Needs To Be Done" (Not the exact words but you get the meaning). It's
obviously a service that's looking for additional work items. I compared
that list of checked items against my 30K manual list of things to do.
Everything except replacing the brake and transmission fluids were covered.
So if the Technician did exactly as described on the Multi-Check then I got
just about all of my 30K Check done for the price of an oil change ---$19.99
with coupon.
The competition around my area between Dealers is a boon for us poor guys.
Coupons arrive monthly for all kinds of Service items and there are many
good money saving deals. Example---Just bought 4 Michelin tires (OEM) from
the Dealer, paid regular price for 3 and $1 for the 4th. Included was an
alignment (no charge worth $89) and 2 yr Road Hazard Coverage. Rebate.
Bottom line, taking everything into consideration, beat Costco by almost
$200. As an extra bonus-Michelin giving a $75 Rebate.
MLD

[Stewart]

"Steve" <tink...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

Tune up at 30k miles....?

[Steve]

On 11/1/2012 4:13 PM, Douglas C. Neidermeyer wrote:
> On 11/1/12 1:55 PM, Steve wrote:

>>
>> I'm going to check my owners manual and I will likely get it
>> done as I don't like messing with factory recommendations, but this
>> feels like a rip off
>>
>> Is it?
>>
>> Steve
>
> Me? I'd wait for the Maintenance Minder to tell me it was time for
> service-- and definitely not do it early at the urging of some express
> mechanic (read: newest, least skilled guy in the shop). I'd also confirm
> what an E service entailed in the owner's manual. I live in a large
> metro area that has several Honda dealers so prices vary considerably
> and promotional offers abound.

Useful post. I thought dealer prices were standard. When it is time I
will shop around dealers and non-dealers.

Steve

[Steve]

On 11/1/2012 4:33 PM, Howard Lester wrote:

>
> My last major service (60,000) was $244 at an upstate NY independent
> garage that specializes in Hondas. But that was for an Accord, and more
> is charged for Accords than for Civics -- at least at a dealership. See
> if you can find an independent garage that specializes in Hondas. Make
> friends with them.

Great idea. Labor rates will be far less so I should at least save
something. Thanks Steve.

[Steve]

I thought I would update this as I am the OP.

I own a 2010 Honda Civic LX.

Back in November 2012 I went in for an oil change at the Honda Dealership. The mechanic told me I needed a 30,000 mile e-service package to the tune of $590. I decided not to do it.

I went back to the same Honda dealership today for another oil change ( cheap, quick, nice lounge, near my job ).

I got told again there were some 30,000 mile service things I needed to get done that added up to about $550.

This particular mechanic seemed a little more intelligent than the kid I got the last time.

I told him that I read the manual and according to the manual the maintenance minder would light up an icon on my dashboard when those things needed to be done.

He asked me if I was in the habit of bringing my Civic in for oil changes early, before the meter got down to 15%. I told him that I did indeed to that. I usually came in at 20%.

He explained to me that the maintenance icons for things other than just oil do not light up unless the meter gets down to 15%, so I have missed doing these things at the mileages they needed to be done. He told me that waiting until 15% still has a small safety margin so I don't have to get my oil changed the day it happens. So, I think I will do that from now on.

I called two other Honda dealerships. I learned that not all Honda dealerships charge the same for labor. One charged as high as $122 an hour, another as low as $109 an hour.

I found an independent mechanic near where I work that charges only $106 an hour and his estimate for those maintenance things was almost $70 less than what my regular Honda dealership quoted me. I will probably go to him in about two days when my schedule gets free.

After that I am going to wait for my meter to hit 15%, so I get told to do maintenance a bit a time and not in large expensive clumps.

It seems like a PITA. I would have liked it if the manual just gave me a chart with what to do at what mileage. I'm disciplined enough with calendar reminders that would have been easier for me.

Anyway, I'm sure other people searching on this subject will find the information useful, so here it is

Steve

[Steve]

On Monday April 22 5:13 PM, Steve wrote:
>
> I called two other Honda dealerships. I learned that not all Honda dealerships charge the same for labor. One charged as high as $122 an hour, another as low as $109 an hour.
>
> I found an independent mechanic near where I work that charges only $106 an hour and his estimate for those maintenance things was almost $70 less than what my regular Honda dealership quoted me. I will probably go to him in about two days when my schedule gets free.

Original price back in November at the dealership: $590
Price today at the dealership: $550
Estimate from an independent mechanic: $480

What I was told by the Honda Mechanic that I needed done:

- air filter change
- cabin filter change
- power steering fluid flush
- transmission fluid flush
- new wiper inserts ( they are torn )
- tire rotation

FWIW

Steve

[tww1491]

"Steve" wrote in message news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

For whatever it is worth, the 30k service entails:
- Oil/Filter Change
- Change air and cabin filters
- Change transmission fluid
- Rotate tires
- Change brake fluid
- Inspect running gear.

There are probably other recommendations like changing wiper blades.

You can do some of this yourself like changing the cabin HEPA filter. The
price is high in my opinion.

[jim beam]

On 04/22/2013 02:25 PM, Steve wrote:
> On Monday April 22 5:13 PM, Steve wrote:
>>
>> I called two other Honda dealerships. I learned that not all Honda
>> dealerships charge the same for labor. One charged as high as $122
>> an hour, another as low as $109 an hour.
>>
>> I found an independent mechanic near where I work that charges only
>> $106 an hour and his estimate for those maintenance things was almost
>> $70 less than what my regular Honda dealership quoted me. I will
>> probably go to him in about two days when my schedule gets free.
>
> Original price back in November at the dealership: $590
> Price today at the dealership: $550
> Estimate from an independent mechanic: $480
>
> What I was told by the Honda Mechanic that I needed done:
>
> - air filter change

do it yourself - it's real easy.


> - cabin filter change

do it yourself. a little more involved. depending on the year but still
doable.

> - power steering fluid flush

completely bogus. honda do not specify a power steering fluid service
interval. provided it's not been contaminated with atf, sealed power
steering systems last 300k+ miles without the need to change fluid.

> - transmission fluid flush

there's something seriously wrong here. honda specifically say NOT to
"flush" their transmissions, simply drain and fill. and unless you're
on a severe service schedule - most unlikely unless you live in las
vegas or anchorage - you don't even need to that at only 30k. read the
owners manual and you'll see.

> - new wiper inserts ( they are torn )

do it yourself.


> - tire rotation

tire rotation is just legal ass-covering - you actually /reduce/
traction when you rotate thus increasing stopping distances and
decreasing cornering speeds.

bottom line, the only thing you need to do at 30k is check the
driveshaft boots [which you should be doing every few months anyway],
check the brake pads, and that you don't have any fluid leaks. you're
only a small percentage into the life of the car, and 30k is still well
within the "nothing to fix". chances are that even the brakes will last
you to 60k and you won't have to touch anything.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

On 04/22/2013 06:16 PM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <kl4i2n$s6h$1...@dont-email.me>, jim beam <m...@privacy.net>

> wrote:
>
>>> - transmission fluid flush
>>
>> there's something seriously wrong here. honda specifically say NOT to
>> "flush" their transmissions, simply drain and fill. and unless you're
>> on a severe service schedule - most unlikely unless you live in las
>> vegas or anchorage - you don't even need to that at only 30k. read the
>> owners manual and you'll see.
>

> yeah. Funny thing here: I did exactly that with my 02 Odyssey. 45K
> mile drain/fill interval, Honda said. I did that.
>
> And you know the story. At 73K miles, I replaced the transmission.
>
> My mechanic berated me for not doing it every 15K. What the hell, I
> said--I followed Honda's directions.
>
> Honda would also like me to buy a new car from them. Well, we all know
> what happend the LAST time I followed Honda's directions.
>
> Back to the point: yes, the owner's manual of his 2010 Civic probably
> does not specify transmission drain/fill at 30K. But it's cheap, and
> given Honda's history, it's prudent.
>

you're right - i'm forgetting the nature of the beast these days.

in principle though, it's what you call the "wallet flush" that i'm
trying to flag. the majority of this stuff is bogus and unnecessary.
and certainly not a $600 investment.


--
fact check required

[Howard Lester]

FWIW, the independent facility I go to (some, or all, of whom are
Honda-trained mechanics) that I go to charged me $250 for my each of my 2004
Accord's 60,000 and 90,000 mile services. That included the usual oil and
filter; air filter, brake fluid flush and replace, replace transmission
fluid, pollen filter, tire rotation; and inspect everything else from top to
bottom and adjust as necessary.

Since everything checked out ok, there were no additional charges.

[jim beam]

good, that's much more realistic.


--
fact check required

[Steve]

I called the aforementioned cheaper Honda dealership after this post
yesterday to get their prices on the list above. They were cheaper than
the original Honda Dealership I've been talking about. A mechanic also
picked up the phone. He told me that Honda doesn't recommend a
transmission flush, as it could hurt the car. He said they just replace
the fluids instead.

Being charitable, I'm guessing the mechanic at the original Honda
Dealership was just being sloppy with his language.

The good news is that replacing the transmission fluid, instead of a
flush, is about $100 cheaper. So, I can get the package down under
$400. I live in an expensive metropolitan area.

My trust for the original Honda dealership is a bit eroded.

Some of the comments about some of my list not being needed at all, with
others arguing that they really are ( here in the group ) has me concerned.

I'm thinking of either going to the cheaper Honda dealership or the
independent to explain what happened and ask them their opinion on what
I need.

Steve

[Dave Garrett]

In article <kl6cnc$g4f$1...@dont-email.me>, tink...@gmail.com says...

> A mechanic also
> picked up the phone. He told me that Honda doesn't recommend a
> transmission flush, as it could hurt the car. He said they just replace
> the fluids instead.
>
> Being charitable, I'm guessing the mechanic at the original Honda
> Dealership was just being sloppy with his language.

Don't bet on it. I've had Honda dealers try to sell me on a transmission
flush before and then offer a standard drain-and-fill as a much cheaper
option when pressed about it. The last time it happened they backed off
when I told them I'd already had to have the transmission replaced once
and wasn't eager to repeat that experience.

You have to remember that the dealer is not the factory, and when you
receive information from a dealer that conflicts with what's in the
owner's manual, it's always in your best interest to opt for what's
recommended in the manual.

[jim beam]

you should ALWAYS be skeptical about a dealer's service recommendations.
you know that big shiny showroom and all those ads they run in the
paper? that is expensive overhead, and YOU are paying for it.

>
> Some of the comments about some of my list not being needed at all, with
> others arguing that they really are ( here in the group ) has me concerned.

your first port of call on information is always the owner's manual.
anything else you get after that can be ranked by the individual's
experience and background. someone with an opinion, however much they
may try to assert it, or well intentioned they may be, doesn't mean they
actually know what they're talking about.

look for practical experience, e.g. elmo with recent honda transmission
reliability issues, and rank responses accordingly.

>
> I'm thinking of either going to the cheaper Honda dealership or the
> independent to explain what happened and ask them their opinion on what
> I need.

1. read the owner's manual and compile a list of what it says to do.
2. /tell/ the service location what /you/ want them to do.

if you don't, you're basically asking /them/ to set your budget for you.
also, call around with your list of what you want, and tell them
you're shopping on price. if nothing else, you'll find it an
instructive experience on how they react!


--
fact check required

[JRStern]

On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:13:48 -0700 (PDT), Steve <tink...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>He explained to me that the maintenance icons for things other than just oil
>do not light up unless the meter gets down to 15%, so I have missed doing
>these things at the mileages they needed to be done. He told me that
>waiting until 15% still has a small safety margin so I don't have to get
>my oil changed the day it happens.
>So, I think I will do that from now on.

You can let it go right down to 0%, it's not like the car is going to
blow up if you put another 1% mileage on it.

J.

[tww1491]

"Steve" wrote in message news:k6ud3f$r0j$1...@dont-email.me...

Hi,

I own a 2010 Honda Civic.

I went to have my oil changed last night.

The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000
mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want
to go ahead and do it now?

Price? $590 + tax !!!!

I can never recall a tuneup being that much and this is what it sounds
like, a fancy tuneup.

I'm going to check my owners manual and I will likely get it
done as I don't like messing with factory recommendations, but this
feels like a rip off

Is it?

Steve

The Honda dealer I use has an awards program where you are awarded points
for each service performed. The points give you a discount on future
service -- 500 points $50.00 off for example. I recently had an oil change,
transmission and differential drain and refill on my S2000 for around $50.00
using my points.

[Steve]

On Wednesday April 24 7:44 AM, tww1491 wrote:
> The Honda dealer I use has an awards program where you are awarded
> points for each service performed. The points give you a discount on
> future service -- 500 points $50.00 off for example. I recently had an
> oil change, transmission and differential drain and refill on my S2000
> for around $50.00 using my points.

The two Honda dealerships near where I work and live do not do this.

That is okay. The phone calls I have made as a result of this event
showed me that the original Honda Dealership ( near where I work ) is
not the cheapest or most competent.

The one near where I live made a good impression on me and their labor
rate is only $3/hr more than the the independent mechanic across the
street from where I work.

From now on I am taking my maintenance to either them or the Honda
dealership near where I live.

Steve

[Steve]

On Tuesday April 23 7:39 PM, Dave Garrett wrote:
> Don't bet on it. I've had Honda dealers try to sell me on a transmission
> flush before and then offer a standard drain-and-fill as a much cheaper
> option when pressed about it. The last time it happened they backed off
> when I told them I'd already had to have the transmission replaced once
> and wasn't eager to repeat that experience.

Why did you have to have your transmission replaced?

[Steve]

On Tuesday April 23 9:50 PM, jim beam wrote:
>
> 1. read the owner's manual and compile a list of what it says to do.

That advice is not so useful. I read the maintenance section of my
manual. It does not give you a list of things to do and it doesn't give
a list of things to do by mileage.

It basically says to watch the maintenance minder and it gives you a
chart to interpret what the icons mean.

Steve

[Steve]

No disrespect, but I read that section of the manual and going below 15%
wasn't something that sounded like a healthy thing to do for the car.
No disrespect.

Steve

[Steve]

On Wednesday April 24 6:19 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> what you NEED to do is to START with your owner's manual, and do EXACTLY
> what it specifies.

I wrote previously that I read the manual, that the manual does not give
a list of maintenance to-dos by mileage and the manual only says to obey
the icons on the maintenance minder, which you have to let get down to 15%.

If I misread something and you know more than this I would be grateful
to hear what you know.

Steve

[jim beam]

so pay to get some oil analysis done. that'll tell you something very
important - that the maintenance minder, while a much improved tool
compared to a traditional "no usage data" approach, is actually very
conservative. if you're using a decent quality motor oil, you can
typically go quite a bit further on your oil than the maintenance minder
says - thus you are perfectly safe at 0%.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

sorry guy, but you need to move with the times. the maintenance minder
is a much more sophisticated tool for maintaining your particular
vehicle than the "one size fits all" approach used back in the 1950's.
in fact, it's quite conservative.

and the "30k mile service" concept is basically just an anachronism
dating back to the ancients when detroit iron was starting to fall apart
by then. no modern car has any issues at 30k miles. and frankly, any
competent service tech will give the car a quick inspection when they
have it up on the lift for the oil change anyway. that's all you need.
you certainly don't need to pay a premium price as if this is anything
other than ordinary maintenance.


--
fact check required

[jim beam]

On 04/24/2013 06:36 AM, Steve wrote:
> On Wednesday April 24 6:19 AM, Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> what you NEED to do is to START with your owner's manual, and do EXACTLY
>> what it specifies.
>
> I wrote previously that I read the manual, that the manual does not give
> a list of maintenance to-dos by mileage

that's because the minder is not "one size fits all" like a fixed schedule.

> and the manual only says to obey
> the icons on the maintenance minder, which you have to let get down to 15%.

unless you have a specific reason to disobey, like you've done oil
analysis, then you should indeed "obey" the maintenance minder. the
minder is based on millions of vehicle hours of analysis and millions of
dollars in development. it's not there just so you can ignore it and go
back to the 50's. all modern planes, trains and ships use this [and
much more sophisticated] technology. for a reason - it works, prolongs
the machine's life, and saves money.

>
> If I misread something and you know more than this I would be grateful
> to hear what you know.
>
> Steve
>

--
fact check required

[Steve]

On Wednesday April 24 10:42 AM, jim beam wrote:
> On 04/24/2013 06:32 AM, Steve wrote:
>> On Tuesday April 23 9:50 PM, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. read the owner's manual and compile a list of what it says to do.
>>
>> That advice is not so useful. I read the maintenance section of my
>> manual. It does not give you a list of things to do and it doesn't give
>> a list of things to do by mileage.
>>
>> It basically says to watch the maintenance minder and it gives you a
>> chart to interpret what the icons mean.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> sorry guy, but you need to move with the times. the maintenance minder
> is a much more sophisticated tool for maintaining your particular
> vehicle than the "one size fits all" approach used back in the 1950's.
> in fact, it's quite conservative.

I agree with this, but my point was a reply to your advice to read the
owner's manual and make a list of what is says to do. My point was that
the manual only tells you to watch the maintenance minder, so you can't
make a list.

[Steve]

On Wednesday April 24 10:37 AM, jim beam wrote:
>> No disrespect, but I read that section of the manual and going below 15%
>> wasn't something that sounded like a healthy thing to do for the car. No
>> disrespect.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> so pay to get some oil analysis done. that'll tell you something very
> important - that the maintenance minder, while a much improved tool
> compared to a traditional "no usage data" approach, is actually very
> conservative. if you're using a decent quality motor oil, you can
> typically go quite a bit further on your oil than the maintenance minder
> says - thus you are perfectly safe at 0%.

Now this is useful to know.

I never let it get to 15%, because I was concerned about the margin
being bottomed out or thin. The mechanic at the dealership told that
there IS a margin and that I do not have to IMMEDIATELY get to a
mechanic when the oil hits 15%.

Your post above is further reassurance.

Thanks, I will it run down to 15% from now on so I get the benefit of
the other maintenance icons lighting up.

Steve

[Al]

On 4/24/2013 12:08 AM, JRStern wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Apr 2013 14:13:48 -0700 (PDT), Steve <tink...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> He explained to me that the maintenance icons for things other than just oil
>> do not light up unless the meter gets down to 15%, so I have missed doing
>> these things at the mileages they needed to be done. He told me that
>> waiting until 15% still has a small safety margin so I don't have to get
>> my oil changed the day it happens.
>

An important point in this is that at 15% the MM might give codes to
suggest a number of tasks in addition to changing the oil. However,
there is only one reset procedure which resets everything as being
done. Thus whether you are at 20% with no codes showing or 10% with
transmission fluid change, replace rear differential fluid, change
filters, etc. showing, if you change the oil (or even if you don't)
and reset the MM, the computer 'thinks' ALL of its recommendations
have been followed and does not remind you at the next 15% point. So
at 60,000 miles the MM might recommend changing the oil and the
transmission fluid, but if you only do the oil and reset the MM, you
probably will not see a transmission fluid code again for another
60,000 miles.

If you ALWAYS change the oil at 20% and reset the MM, you will NEVER
see a code for anything else. IMHO that is the significant point of
what you were told - and a weakness of the MM design.

I think each recommendation should have to be individually reset -
you could still fool it, but not be unintentionally mislead.

[Dave Garrett]

In article <kl8mhn$92m$2...@dont-email.me>, tink...@gmail.com says...

Honda had a well-documented issue with premature failures of automatic
transmissions in vehicles with V6 engines in certain model years. They
ultimately wound up extending the warranty for these vehicles, and in
many cases covered the cost of a remanufactured transmission for owners
so afflicted (they did this for me even though my car was not
technically part of the warranty extension, and at any rate would have
been slightly outside of the extended warranty period if it had been).
They quit doing this some time ago, and the entire debacle has left a
bad taste in the mouths of many former Honda loyalists who used to be
able to rely upon superior engineering as an unquestioned quality of the
Honda brand.

Lots more info if you Google (my search string only covers 99-02 model
years, but the tranny problems persisted well beyond that):

https://www.google.com/search?q=98+02+accord+v6+transmission+failure

[tww1491]

"Steve" wrote in message news:kl8mes$92m$1...@dont-email.me...

The key is the dealership. I live in a small southern town in GA and am
retired military. The local Honda dealer is excellent with top-notch
mechanics. The dealership is privately owned and has been in business since
the early 80s. When you take you Honda in for service -- i.e. the 30k
service, they cover the factory recommendations, the cost and so forth...
no padding.

[Steve]

On Wednesday April 24 3:06 PM, Al wrote:
> I think each recommendation should have to be individually reset -
> you could still fool it, but not be unintentionally mislead.

Great idea. Seriously, write to Honda

Steve

[Steve]

On Thursday November 01 1:55 PM, Steve wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I own a 2010 Honda Civic.
>
> I went to have my oil changed last night.
>
> The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000
> mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want
> to go ahead and do it now?
>
> Price? $590 + tax !!!!

Conclusion.

1. Went back for another oil change at Honda Dealership 1 earlier this
week. Again, got a list of to-dos, $550. Shopped around via phone to
other dealerships. Went with an independent mechanic who did the to-dos
for about $300.


2. It is safe and necessary to let the maintenance minder hit 15%
between oil changes. Icons for scheduled maintenance items aside from
oil changes will not light up otherwise.

Steve

[JRStern]

It's not a countdown to self-destruct, it's a countdown to call the
dealer for an appointment, or make an appointment with your shade-tree
and do it yourself.

J.

[Steve]

LOL

[tww1491]

"Steve" wrote in message news:klbthi$v4h$2...@dont-email.me...

I would also recommend you keep a summary account of service done and when.
You may need this when they try to sell you service already done. I had a
recent situation where the Honda mechanic stated on the recommended
maintenance found in their inspection that my plugs were in poor
condition -- after they had changed them only 5k miles ago.

[Unquestionably Confused]

On 5/8/2013 3:24 PM, tww1491 wrote:
[snip]

> I would also recommend you keep a summary account of service done and
> when. You may need this when they try to sell you service already done.
> I had a recent situation where the Honda mechanic stated on the
> recommended maintenance found in their inspection that my plugs were in
> poor condition -- after they had changed them only 5k miles ago.

Don't we all keep a record of some sort? If not just the receipt, at
least "in our heads?" If the mechanic tried that with me, I would not
bother with any records (what do I have to prove to him?) I'd just tell
him...

"FAIL! Those plugs were changed out 5,000 miles back (perhaps by THIS
shop) and you know they're good! I'm gone and going to be busy telling
everyone I know that this shop is a rip-off and to avoid you like the
plague." That's the only explanation that the rip off's understand.

[tww1491]

"Unquestionably Confused" wrote in message
news:518ba134$0$2709$862e...@ngroups.net...

The saving grace was the service advisor who knew what had been done and did
not press the issue. On balance, I think I will take this to the service
mgr, He needs to know this mechanic is sloppy.

[Unquestionably Confused]

That the mechanic told you, "...that my plugs were in poor condition" is
NOT sloppy, it's dishonest. He lied to you. Either he didn't examine
the plugs and just tried to sell you a, what?, $100+ upcharge you did
not need, or he DID examine the plugs and decided to stick it to you
regardless. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or maybe I'm anal about
integrity, but in your case if that mechanic was still working for the
dealership that tells me they condone such actions and are not worthy of
my business.

[Al]

On 5/10/2013 9:14 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:


>
> That the mechanic told you, "...that my plugs were in poor condition" is
> NOT sloppy, it's dishonest. He lied to you. Either he didn't examine
> the plugs and just tried to sell you a, what?, $100+ upcharge you did
> not need, or he DID examine the plugs and decided to stick it to you
> regardless. Maybe I'm just old fashioned or maybe I'm anal about
> integrity, but in your case if that mechanic was still working for the
> dealership that tells me they condone such actions and are not worthy of
> my business.
>
>
>

but before you condemn mechanic #2, how can you be sure, based on the
original post, that mechanic #1 actually did install new spark plugs?

[Unquestionably Confused]

That's a point but insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

If we can agree that the work was supposed to have been done at the same
dealership, we now have a situation where either Mechanic #1 (likely in
collusion with the service manager and/or parts manager) claimed to have
done the service and charged for it or #2 blew smoke up the customer's
ass and tried to sell him the same service 5,000 miles later.

Do you feel better that it was #1 who lied to you and cheated you? Or
would you feel better that it #2 who tried to cheat you and the service
manager backed you when he saw that the jig was up?

It's basic dishonesty any way you look at it. Perjury is a dishonest
act. It's simply two differing stories, under oath, that are material
to the issue at hand. It makes no difference WHICH version is true,
only that the two stories (in perjury cases, made by the same person)
are materially different. In this dealership it makes no difference
which mechanic was lying, the problem is that ONE of them is lying and
the dealership is responsible. That is the important point.

[asmg...@yahoo.com]

On Thursday, November 1, 2012 at 12:55:59 PM UTC-5, Steve wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I own a 2010 Honda Civic.
>
> I went to have my oil changed last night.
>
> The express mechanic told me I am 2,000 miles away from the "30,000
> mile E Maintenance" package needing to be be done and do I just want
> to go ahead and do it now?
>
> Price? $590 + tax !!!!
>

> I can never recall a tuneup being that much and this is what it sounds
> like, a fancy tuneup.
>
> I'm going to check my owners manual and I will likely get it
> done as I don't like messing with factory recommendations, but this
> feels like a rip off
>
> Is it?
>
> Steve

Auto dealership mechanics work on commission so most will try to upsell you! Regardless of what they tell you; you should always go by what your automobile owner's manual tells you. Honda engineers build and tested the car through countless hours while the dealership only sell it. Some local mechanics also work on commission and I absolutely hate when they try selling you the "coolant flush" like it is rocket engineering. Frankly, and oil check on a Honda Civic 2010 is quite simple to do at home as a coolant flush is as well. I hate the word "flush" bc they are not flushing a thing. All they are doing is emptying the coolant and replenishing. My 30,000k check up comes up soon on my Honda Civic 2010 (I drive it very little) and my mechanic has already told me the following:
1. Engine oil and filter
2. Brake check
3. Rotation of tires
4. Coolant Flush
5. Time belt
I think the time belt is total BS and it pisses me off bc my family has been going to this mechanic for years and his front desk sales person reminds me of all those dealership commission cunts. I can check everything with the exception of the breaks. $300 for everything. I think its BS. The syntehic oil is $70. tire rotation is 25. hidden fees 10. No coolant flush thank you and leave the damn time belt alone until 60k rolls arround in another decade.

[Dave Garrett]

In article <3fbc8a77-7637-4050...@googlegroups.com>,
asmg...@yahoo.com says...

You can't go by mileage alone when determining when to replace a timing
belt. The recommendation is typically X years or X thousand miles,
whichever comes first. Letting a timing belt go unreplaced for 10 years
because you've only driven the car 20,000 miles in that time is asking
for trouble.

None of which really matters much in this case, because a 2010 Civic
doesn't have a timing belt, it has a timing chain, and timing chains
should never need to be replaced.

--
Dave

[Lynn McGuire]

I wish. One of the timing chains just failed on my 2005 Ford Expedition
with the 5.4L V8 at 209,546 miles.

Lynn

[Dave Garrett]

In article <qoarrj$sje$1...@dont-email.me>, lynnmc...@gmail.com says...

Yeah, perhaps I should've said that timing chains generally don't have a
recommended replacement schedule the way timing belts do.

--
Dave