GM shares fall to 1950 levels
Dave U. Random
Corp. shares, already reeling from the widening credit
crisis that has crippled Wall Street, fell as much as 22%
in early trades Thursday, dropping to closing levels last
seen around Christmas time in 1950...
..the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a
typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20
cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37
cents, and houses went for $16,000...
==========
GM in the toilet: http://tinyurl.com/52w2j9
Paul L
"Dave U. Random" <anon...@anonymitaet-im-inter.net> wrote in message
news:cf1fa46e0579ca0f...@anonymitaet-im-inter.net...
In 1950 the average cost of a new car was $1510.00
That's the only "fact" here that I checked. But
the housing price isn't right either. Other than
that I'm sure your facts are spot on. ahem.
Paul
Lubow
>over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours
>for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000...
Off the subject....
As a young civil engineer, I worked in Omaha for the Union Pacific RR in the
Bridge Dept. in 1971. At the time there was a gasoline war going on. At Bob
Boozer's gas station (Boozer played for the Knicks at one time) , Robo's All-Pro
Gas, regular gasoline was $0.15/gallon and if you filled up the tank, Bob gave
you a free car wash.
I really couldn't appreciate the gas war as much as I would today. Back then, I
owned a Volvo 144 with a four cylinder engine. Now I own a "Benson" -- actually
a Lincoln -- close to a gas guzzler, but a Volvo 144 sounds a lot more
appropriate.
Anyway, Thanksgiving crude dropped to around $84.70 today which is one
saving-grace during a major downturn.
Gotta admit there is one thing the GOP does well and that's turning a minor
economic setback -- like the nonproducing 6% of all mortgages -- into a
fullscale disaster. The GOP got its start with the economic panic during the
Grant Administration, finely honed its skills during the Hoover years, fine
tuned it with Neil Bush's Silverado S&L which absorbed a billion taxpayer bucks.
Today we see the result of 135 years of GOP styled laissez-faire deregulating
and bringing economic disaster to America.
Ken $ Tucker
You know Lubow,
If I use the "D" word, please kick my ass.
I've been cookin' some mid-night oil, and sees
we may be beyond the "R" word to the "D".
I did some buying, and they went sour.
((It reminds my of that STAR TREK episode
where thrusting against the AMEOBA actually
caused the ENTERPRISE to accelerate to it)).
It appears the value of everything is reducing,
as our fundamental equity/asset was property,
(aka dirt & bricks), pretty much replaced the
old gold standard. Kash might be King.
I think buying dividends is good now. We have
stakes in CITI, GE and KraFT might spin
to a good buy, but I'm holding 50% cash as
a kicker, zero debt.
Anyone else think we should use the "D" word?
Cheers
Ken $ Tucker
Balanced View
Diet? ;~)))) We probably all will be.......
Mike Hunter
newspapers. The comparative share price would be $27, not $5.40. GM has
had five stock splits since 1950.
The price of a Chevrolet in 1950 was less than $2,000 and gas was closer to
23c.
"Dave U. Random" <anon...@anonymitaet-im-inter.net> wrote in message
news:cf1fa46e0579ca0f...@anonymitaet-im-inter.net...
Lawyerkill
wrote:
> Marketwatchhttp://tinyurl.com/3ud5vj- General Motors
GM now joins F as a penny stock, MS soon to follow.
Mike Hunter
laws passed under Democrats Carter and Clinton, NOT Republicans, that
allowed buyers to borough up to 120% of the value of a home.
If you search the Congressional Record you will discover the Republicans in
both the House and Senate in 2005, and again in 2007, tried to have laws
introduce to stop the abuses by "Fanny" and "Freddy" but were held in
Committee by Congressman Frank and Senator Dodd. Both of whom received
huge campaign contributions from "Fanny" and "Freddy" administrators at the
time. One of whom is now an advisor to Obama, who said last year that
"Fanny" and "Freddy" were not in trouble.
Better do bit more research before you choose to comment again on a subject
of which you apparently have little or no knowledge
"Lubow" <lu...@lubowindustries.com> wrote in message
news:48ee6c28$0$7382$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com...
Ryan Evans
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
news:qcqdnZbT5az6D3PV...@ptd.net...
> Just goes to show one can not believe everything they read in the
> newspapers. The comparative share price would be $27, not $5.40. GM has
> had five stock splits since 1950.
Wouldn't 5 stock splits make it a factor of 32 and not 5?
RE
>>
>
>
Mike Hunter
have invested more in stocks in the past two weeks than I did in all of
2007, including buying GM and Ford.
Look around, the press is harping every day on how bad things are today.
Actually they have been telling us for the past seven years that the economy
in bad, all the while the GNP has increased at rate of around 3% every
quarter, at a time we are fighting a war around the world with the radical
Islamic terrorist who would kill us all if the could. The market is still
well over 10,500 higher than seven years ago. For seven years the loyal
opposition has been saying "tax cuts for the rich." The fact is the Bush
tax cuts were RATE cuts, that were given to EVERY taxpayer. The largest
cut going to the working poor. They received a rate cut from 15% down to
10% a rate cut of 50%. The largest cut to any taxpaying group. Those over
250, 000 actually had the LOWEST rate cut. Since the Bush tax RATE cuts
went into effect fully 49% of all Americans now have ZERO tax liability at
the end of the year. Fully 34% of those with children now receive a REFUND
greater than the taxes they had withheld, to help pay FICA.
How many times have we heard the tax cuts hurt the budget? The fact is the
amount of money taken in by the US Treasury went UP NOT DOWN, as it did when
Kennedy and Reagan cut tax rates. It is economics 101. The more money in
circulating the more taxes are paid, since EVERY TIME a dollar changes hands
the more often it is taxed by Federal State and local tax collectors. In
the last two quarters of 2007 and the first two quarter of 2008, the income
to the US Treasury was greater than the outflow. That is the first time in
the history of the country that income to the federal government exceed
expenditures, in time of war, in our history. Our problem ALL stem fro the
same souch overspending. Spending to buy our votes with our money in the
next election.
We are today in just about the same position we were one year ago and things
were great. I paid $2,999 for gas today to boot. Don't believe it? Search
the US Treasury site for the truth, WBMA
"Ken $ Tucker" <dyna...@vianet.on.ca> wrote in message
news:03d2345f-6dcd-409f...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Ken $ Tucker
Yeah, that's why KFT looks good.
The leading cause of the "D" is X, Y,Z, pic one.
There is only one thing I found that economist's agree
on that cures a "D"......precedent WW2.
I wonder if WW3 will be economic warfare? I think
Iceland got Nuked...financially.
This is all new to me...I'll keep you all posted.
Ken $ Tucker
Jim Higgins
When will you be applying for a bailout? A week or two?
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Mike Hunter
shares for every one but the value is 1/2. If a stock goes up to where it
was, it may split again but be worth far more than one half of the original
cost.
I E I bought several thousand shares of GM at forty and an eighth in 1960,
after the first split at around $98 I now had twice as many share but the
value was now $54 then it split again.
I could loose all that a paid for GM and still be far ahead in dividends,
then if I had place the some amount to money in government bonds at the
time.
I remember back in the fifties when the pundits were saying the market will
never go 1,000 LOL
"Ryan Evans" <revan...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:GuCdnSZwDsm0A3PV...@comcast.com...
Scott
"Lubow" <lu...@lubowindustries.com> wrote in message
news:48ee6c28$0$7382$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com...
> >just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20 cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke
> >could be yours for 37 cents, and houses went for $16,000...
>
>
> Off the subject....
>
> As a young civil engineer, I worked in Omaha for the Union Pacific RR in
> the Bridge Dept. in 1971. At the time there was a gasoline war going on.
> At Bob Boozer's gas station (Boozer played for the Knicks at one time) ,
> Robo's All-Pro Gas, regular gasoline was $0.15/gallon and if you filled up
> the tank, Bob gave you a free car wash.
snip
> Gotta admit there is one thing the GOP does well and that's turning a
> minor economic setback -- like the nonproducing 6% of all mortgages --
> into a fullscale disaster. The GOP got its start with the economic panic
> during the Grant Administration, finely honed its skills during the Hoover
> years, fine tuned it with Neil Bush's Silverado S&L which absorbed a
> billion taxpayer bucks. Today we see the result of 135 years of GOP styled
> laissez-faire deregulating and bringing economic disaster to America.
Hard to believe anybody with an engineering degree, even just a civil
engineer,
would claim the recent downturn in the economy could be traced to the
Republicans.
And it took them 135 years? Hell, you aren't just stupid, you are STUMP
stupid.
___________________
electrical engineers build missiles, civil engineers build targets.
Lubow
> laws passed under Democrats Carter and Clinton, NOT Republicans, that allowed
> buyers to borough up to 120% of the value of a home.
>
There may have been some confusion a few years ago, but the voters are not
confused now. They know who controlled all three branches of government for six
of the last 7.8 years. They know that the Republicans used their unbridled
power to secure lobbyist-paid golf outings in Scotland for themselves, blow jobs
from the male pages and solicit sex from vice cops in the men's room. Where's
the regulation during those six years?
Search the CR and show me just one example where Sen. McCain voiced opposition
to even ONE of Reagan's de-regulation schemes.
> Better do bit more research before you choose to comment again on a subject of
> which you apparently have little or no knowledge
No knowledge? I have this knowledge:
The Republican Party is expert at two things:
(1) Turning a mild economic hiccup into a full-scale panic or worse. The
Republicans first accomplished that feat in 1873, tried it again in 1907, fine
tuned their make-the-rich-richer shtick in 1929 and reached a pinnacle in 2008
following seven years of devaluing the US dollar.
AND
(2) Blaming everyone else for the failure of their stupid trickle down schemes
to make the the rich richer. Hoover's stooges blamed the 1929 stock market
crash on Jesse Livermore. Reagan's stooges blamed the 1987 crash on Joe
Granville (or was it Bob Prechter?). Nowadays, what's left of the Republicans
are blaming -- of all people -- Jimmy Carter and some Democratic senators who
were powerless members of the minority when the GOP controlled everything in DC.
It's incredible to even believe the voters will fall for the nonsense that
members of the minority party in 2005 were responsible for blocking anything.
What's next?
How about blaming the mess on Ted Kennedy's driving since every other excuse has
failed?
Lubow
> Hard to believe anybody with an engineering degree, even just a civil
> engineer,
> would claim the recent downturn in the economy could be traced to the
> Republicans.
>
> electrical engineers build missiles, civil engineers build targets.
Most "electrical engineers" are not even engineers. In all 50 states and DC
only those with a PE license can call themselves an engineer. All others are
frauds. I have been licensed as a PE since March 26, 1976 and I'm an engineer. I
doubt if you're an engineer.
But it figures that a fraud engineer would gravitate to the GOP. I mean all we
hear from the GOP is that it's always someone else's fault that things have gone
wrong. Whenever I ask an EE asking why he's unemployed it's always the fault
of the Indians (or the Russians, or the Chinese, etc.).
Mike
> Me thinks you are a bet confused. The mortgage melt down was a result
> of laws passed under Democrats Carter and Clinton, NOT Republicans, that
> allowed buyers to borough up to 120% of the value of a home.
>
> If you search the Congressional Record you will discover the Republicans
> in both the House and Senate in 2005, and again in 2007, tried to have
> laws introduce to stop the abuses by "Fanny" and "Freddy" but were held
> in Committee by Congressman Frank and Senator Dodd. Both of whom
> received huge campaign contributions from "Fanny" and "Freddy"
> administrators at the time. One of whom is now an advisor to Obama,
> who said last year that "Fanny" and "Freddy" were not in trouble.
>
> Better do bit more research before you choose to comment again on a
> subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge
>
no explanation for the melt down is anywhere near complete without
including the fact that reduced regulation in 2004 allowed the five big
wall-street investment banks to increase their leverage to 30-1, that's
an extreme violation of common sense & nothing but a recipe for disaster
as evidenced by the fact that it took them less than four years to
totally screw up. reduction in regulation for fannie/freddie was even
worse -> 40-1 leverage. another equally large factor is that the credit
rating agencies were giving triple-A ratings to junk. and then there was
the fed lowering interest rates for an extended period which was the
equivalent of throwing gas on the fire and then they raised the rates at
such a fast pace that when home buyers ARMs adjusted they couldn't afford
the payments which led to increased foreclosures which led to the
downhill spiral that concluded with the $1.5 trillion CDO market freezing
up. so how to properly assign blame for all that to the appropriate
political parties i don't know but there's plenty to go around.
PerfectReign
> the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a
> typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20
> cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37
> cents, and houses went for $16,000
Yeah, that is insane. I heard it on the radio yesterday. What are you gonna
do?
I know a lot of people who are nearing retirement are sweating bullets right
now. My sons' 429 college savings accounts have each dropped about 8% in
the past year. Fortunately, I have ten or so years to recover. But
still...
--
www.perfectreign.com || www.filesite.org
government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and
statutes and 1% logic
Gosi
> Dave U. Random turned on the Etch-A-Sketch and wrote:
>
> > the last time GM traded at around $5.40 a share, a
> > typical car sold for just over $3,000, gasoline cost 20
> > cents a gallon, a six-pack of Coke could be yours for 37
> > cents, and houses went for $16,000
>
> Yeah, that is insane. I heard it on the radio yesterday. What are you gonna
> do?
>
> I know a lot of people who are nearing retirement are sweating bullets right
> now. My sons' 429 college savings accounts have each dropped about 8% in
> the past year. Fortunately, I have ten or so years to recover. But
> still...
>
>
> government is a process which utilizes 45.5% gut reaction, 45.5% laws and
> statutes and 1% logic
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aBpHe3qULTD0&refer=home
GM, Ford May Face Bankruptcy on Slowdown
GM shares are now $4.6
market cap $2.771.094.000.000 ($2.7 Billion)
Mike Hunter
meltdown. I can only assume you failed to search the Congressional Record,
as I suggest, to find the answer you seek.
Hint; 2005 and 2007 to Senate and House committee hearing on "Fanny and
Freddy," lead by Republicans that the Democrats stopped in committee
"Lubow" <lu...@lubowindustries.com> wrote in message
news:48eec799$0$7339$ec3e...@news.usenetmonster.com...
Mike Hunter
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1770326.BHWKTyep4K@perfectreign...
Jim Higgins
And apply for a bailout the following week after you go bust.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Edwin Pawlowski
"Jim Higgins" <gordi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IYedncNOjP2_IHLV...@posted.eaglecomputertechnology...
> Mike Hunter wrote:
>> One needs to buy more stock at today's depressed rates.
>>
>>
>
> And apply for a bailout the following week after you go bust.
No one knows for sure where the bottom is, but buying good companies with a
modest investment is going to pay well in a few years. Good time to expand
on the Blue Chips portfolio.
Jim Higgins
Point taken. The big trick is in knowing which stock(s).
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Mike Hunter
;)
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:VyQHk.3213$c45....@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com...
Edwin Pawlowski
I'm going for foods, energy, pharmeceuticals. No matter how bad things are
personally, people will still eat, still get sick, and still heat their
homes.
N8N
> "Jim Higgins" <gordian...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:oaGdnblKaZElQHLV...@posted.eaglecomputertechnology...
>
>
>
> > Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> >>news:IYedncNOjP2_IHLV...@posted.eaglecomputertechnology...
> >>> Mike Hunter wrote:
> >>>> One needs to buy more stock at today's depressed rates.
>
> >>> And apply for a bailout the following week after you go bust.
>
> >> No one knows for sure where the bottom is, but buying good companies
> >> with a modest investment is going to pay well in a few years. Good time
> >> to expand on the Blue Chips portfolio.
>
> > Point taken. The big trick is in knowing which stock(s).
>
> I'm going for foods, energy, pharmeceuticals. No matter how bad things are
> personally, people will still eat, still get sick, and still heat their
> homes.
make sure you buy an energy PRODUCER not an energy trader (I seem to
recall some people losing a spot of cash a couple years ago...)
nate
Mike Hunter
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:wMTHk.2229$W06....@flpi148.ffdc.sbc.com...
Mike Hunter
Imagine buying a million barrels at $140 only to have it trade in the spot
marker today at under $80? ;)
"N8N" <njn...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7c6c6bc4-af59-4b83...@u65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
Edwin Pawlowski
"Mike Hunter" <mikehunt2@lycos/com> wrote in message
> You mean like the oil commodities buyers who bid $140 a barrel last month?
> Imagine buying a million barrels at $140 only to have it trade in the spot
> marker today at under $80? ;)
>
Most deserve just what they got.
Jim Higgins
$3.119 in Holland, just SW of Grand Rapids MI
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Ben Sharvy
Federal assistance. Car manufacturing doesn't pose systemic risk like
the finance industry, but the psychological effect of a GM bankruptcy
could be large.
HLS
"Ben Sharvy" <spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b520a8db-4761-4089...@z6g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
Shares were something like $6.50 give or take a little just the other day.
Their senior bonds are down as well, but AFAIK they are still paying their
interest to bond owners.
This is not unlike a lot of other shares which have tanked in the last few
months,
except that GM's future is not really clear. If their credit line is
finished, and the government
wont bail them out, and they dont have investor confidence to sell stocks or
bonds,
then they have to either find a white knight or push the abort button.
Any other scenarios?
Ben Sharvy
Dead in the water.