General Motors Reports Record Sales Of New Disposable Car
Jim Higgins
General Motors Reports Record Sales Of New Disposable Car
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38785
March 4, 2001 | Issue 37�12
DETROIT�In a report released Monday, General Motors announced 56 percent
growth for the first quarter of 2001, a profit increase company
officials attributed to February's wildly successful launch of the GMC
Whim, the first-ever non-refillable, disposable automobile.
Making their debut at a cost of $1,100 each, the vehicles are flying out
of showrooms as quickly as dealers can stock them. Featuring
factory-installed gasoline, an AM/FM radio with two preset stations, and
a nine-volt battery to power the ignition, the Whim is attracting
motorists looking for convenient, hassle-free transportation.
"I'm a busy mother of four," said Winston-Salem, NC, homemaker Hannah
Plunkett, who buys a new Whim Grande minivan every seven to ten days. "I
don't have time to change the oil, rotate the tires, fill up the tank,
or deal with any of the other maintenance headaches you have with
old-fashioned reusable cars. But with my Whim, the parts never have time
to age."
"The Whim is the wave of the future," said enthusiast Glen Shriver, who
recently drove from his home in Eden Prairie, MN, to Daytona Beach, FL,
for the First Annual Whim Owners' Convention, consuming four of the
vehicles in the process. "I've already collected all eight colors."
"Finally, I can feel comfortable teaching my kids to drive the family
car," said Harold Sperber of Chillicothe, OH. "And when my oldest
misbehaves, I can threaten to throw his car away."
Introduced to the nation in an ad aired during Super Bowl XXXV, the
Whim's "Hi.... And Bye" spot features a rapid-fire succession of slogans
touting advantages of the new car, including "Enjoy That New-Car Smell
All The Time," "No Rust, No Repairs, No Fooling," and "Never Pay For A
Car Wash Again. In Fact, We Urge You Not To Wash The Whim, As Hot Water
Can Melt The Glue Holding The Frame Together."
When out of gas, the car can either be abandoned at the side of the road
or returned to the dealer for a $10 deposit. For $100 extra, buyers can
purchase the Whim Distinct, a premium model that boasts roomier seating,
super-unleaded gasoline, and a tape deck with a pre-inserted,
non-ejectable tape of the owner's choice. The Whim Distinct will also
offer drivers the added option of going in reverse.
"We here at GM are delighted with the success of the Whim," CEO G.
Richard Wagoner said. "America's love affair with the car, combined with
its love of disposable products, has spelled tremendous success for us.
As long as American industry keeps producing aluminum and polystyrene,
we'll keep making Whims as fast as we can."
The vehicle has also given a boost to GM employment figures. Though
faulted in recent years for rampant layoffs, GM has hired thousands of
new assembly-line workers to meet demand for the Whim, which can take
upwards of 450 man-minutes to assemble. Wagoner also noted that the Whim
costs substantially less to manufacture than conventional automobiles
due to the fact that it requires no fan belt, oil-distribution system,
or other parts necessary to the long-term functioning of a vehicle.
Responding to the Whim's success, rival automakers are preparing to
counter with their own lines of disposable cars, including the Ford
Temporaire and the Chrysler Dumper. The 2002 Mitsubishi Ditch will be
unveiled later this year, with a projected sticker price of $799.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Canuck57
Think, now that they get a $35,000/car subsidy from the taxpayers, they
might be able to sell one for $1,100... LOL. Leave it to The Onion!
"Jim Higgins" <gordi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:U6OdnY5bKbFCj9vX...@posted.eaglecomputertechnology...
> Change the date slightly and GM is up to date ...
>
> General Motors Reports Record Sales Of New Disposable Car
> http://www.theonion.com/content/node/38785
>
> March 4, 2001 | Issue 37�12
>
> DETROIT�In a report released Monday, General Motors announced 56 percent
Ed Pawlowski
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:xDo1m.3776$oQ6....@newsfe12.iad...
>
> Think, now that they get a $35,000/car subsidy from the taxpayers, they
> might be able to sell one for $1,100... LOL. Leave it to The Onion!
>
It is not satire at all. Turns out, my $33,000 LeSabre is disposable.
Right now it is probably not worth the $1,100 price quoted.
Mike
LOL
Canuck57
"Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:4a465475$0$13931$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
> You jest of course, but the fact is GM vehicles sales are indeed going up.
> LOL
Not saying much... LOL.
Bet they are not number one or number two any more.
Mike
the US.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:aCt1m.11879$WC2...@newsfe10.iad...
HLS
Mike has always been a turd in a punchbowl. In another group this name
claims
to be Afroamerican.
I dont know who or what he is, except traditionally combative and
misinformed.
He seems to have no real expertise on anything.
I killfiled him a long time ago.
80 Knight
news:dTy1m.3787$Rb6...@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
Mike is useless, but Canuck is far beyond that.
labatyd
> It appears you lost your bet, GM is still the best selling car company in
> the US.
>
Be a damn shame if one couldn't sell something below cost of production.
Heck good chance I could manage that.
Canuck57
> It appears you lost your bet, GM is still the best selling car company in
> the US.
Past tense does not count. And the US isn't the world. US is a bankruptcy
debt ridden country bound to have economic issues for a few years yet.
Especially having needy GM on the governments hind tits.
Last I heard, Toyota's US sales growth was more than twice that of GM.
Canuck57
"labatyd" <fa...@fake.net> wrote in message
news:J8KdnXGRvan-mdrX...@posted.sasktel...
>
> "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4a4695cc$0$13900$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
>> It appears you lost your bet, GM is still the best selling car company in
>> the US.
>>
>
> Be a damn shame if one couldn't sell something below cost of production.
> Heck good chance I could manage that.
Very good point. Anyone can sell a GM if it is subsidised enough. LOL.
Even I would buy a duramax diesel truck w. leather and in new perfect shape
for $20K.
Canuck57
"80 Knight" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
news:5LydnRyGA4oAQtvX...@giganews.com...
Because I don't support Government Motors corruption and taxpayer abuse?
My feelings are hurt NOT.
Mike
manufacturer, regardless of what you GM haters say about GM.
>> ranting in this NG.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dDK1m.935$yh...@newsfe16.iad...
Mike
manufacturer, in spite of your personal opinion.
As to Toyota they are losing money, especially in the US.
According to you logic Toyota is selling vehicles below the cost of building
them as well.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:dBK1m.934$yh....@newsfe16.iad...
labatyd
> The fact remains GM sells more vehicles in the US than any other
> manufacturer, regardless of what you GM haters say about GM.
Don't get me wrong.I drive GM and have for years. Also have Ford. Anything
you'd like to sell? I am certain I could sell more for you than any
competitor if the product is subsidized enough. The competition wouldn't
have a chance.
Mike
"labatyd" <fa...@fake.net> wrote in message
news:J8KdnXGRvan-mdrX...@posted.sasktel...
>
Mike
"HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:dTy1m.3787$Rb6...@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com...
>
Canuck57
> The fact remains GM sells more vehicles in the US than any other
> manufacturer, regardless of what you GM haters say about GM.
And think, if it were not for the taxpayers of US and Canada they wouldn't
sell a single one.
Canuck57
> You mean like Toyota?
Well, if your competition can sell below costs, financed by the taxpayers...
well it becomes destructive to the industry. In the end, all consumers will
suffer.
Even Toyota can't make money when faced with competing with the US treasury.
It is clearly an anti-competative move. Obama is a hypocrite if he thinks
otherwise.
Government Motors, USSR. Government at Liberty with taxpayers dollars.
labatyd
Somebody is paying regardless and it ain't good for the industry. There is
no free lunch as you should be aware.
Mike
dummy
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:7GM1m.2912$0T2....@newsfe24.iad...
Mike
sell a single vehicle if it were not for the taxpayers of Japan, as well
dummy?
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ICM1m.2911$0T2....@newsfe24.iad...
Mike
sold, not based on the cost to build the vehicle. The same vehicle, sold
in three different countries will have three different prices. The build
cost in the US is only around one third of the MSRP.
"labatyd" <fa...@fake.net> wrote in message
news:QemdnXfxkNQdD9rX...@posted.sasktel...
80 Knight
news:vhmg45d24v4v44jjt...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:56:33 -0600, "Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Because I don't support Government Motors corruption and taxpayer abuse?
>>
>>My feelings are hurt NOT.
>
> anally in a GM factory?
Naw. He got married, and once the lady realized the huge mistake she made,
she promptly left him, and the new man happened to belong to the CAW.
> You are a loser and a short-sighted person.
>
> Why must you bitch at buyers of a mfg that you have a problem with
> rather than simply trying to improve the mfg abilities of those whose
> side you feel you're on?
>
> Light a fucking candle rather than cursing the fucking darkness, you
> idiot!
>
> MORON!
He has such a hatred for anything built by the CAW/UAW, or any company
associated with them, but ask him what he drives...
Mike
"80 Knight" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
news:SN2dnWE7pbl5m9TX...@giganews.com...
Canuck57
> The retail price of vehicle is set by the market in which the vehicle is
> sold, not based on the cost to build the vehicle. The same vehicle, sold
> in three different countries will have three different prices. The build
> cost in the US is only around one third of the MSRP.
Only partially true. The cost of the sale always has to be above
manufacturing cost or it is unstainable without a lot of bailout and
corruption cash from taxpayers. As GMers are discovering, GM is flat as
tapped out broke and broken because they know sh1t about economics.
Pricing elasticity above the manufacturing costs assures profits and
sustainability.
If pricing falls below what the market will pay, then they should not
produce any more which will either allow prices to rise or if no demand
exists, the item perishes and you don't loose money. Basic JIT principle.
Basic BA and MBA stuff. Companies who practice this basic principle keep
their companies from becoming needy-greedy self denial slugs leaching on on
the taxpayers arse.
Canuck57
> Does that mean you believe Toyota wouldn't
> sell a single vehicle if it were not for the taxpayers of Japan, as well
> dummy?
If not Toyota, someone else would. Toyota gets a fraction, very small
fraction of what GM stole from taxpayers. And if Japanese want to empty
their wallets, I don't care as it isn't my wallet to empty. And I believe
Toyota would survive quite well on it's own without governments, including
the US and Japan ones.
GM has just screwed Canadians and Americans coast to coast. They are
needy-greedy-slugs. I am certian their government lifeline of taxpayers
wealth will be cut off, and we will once again see GM bankrupt.
Canuck57
"Rick_LT1" <see_si...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:vhmg45d24v4v44jjt...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 07:56:33 -0600, "Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>My feelings are hurt NOT.
>
> anally in a GM factory?
Going to. Better yet, I am not going to buy a Toyota or Honda made in
Canada with UAW/CAW parts.
If you reward incompetance, entitlement and greed, you will get more of it.
If we all ceased buying GM outright, then the government would get the
message not to bilk taxpayers for their gradious need for power and favors.
If a GMer tried to rape me, I would cut off their nuts just before I killed
them. And that is just for trying.
> You are a loser and a short-sighted person.
Nope, long sighted. This isn't new, history is repeating itself.
> Why must you bitch at buyers of a mfg that you have a problem with
> rather than simply trying to improve the mfg abilities of those whose
> side you feel you're on?
GM does not pay me, they suck money out of my pocket via the tax system.
> Light a fucking candle rather than cursing the fucking darkness, you
> idiot!
Be happy too. Sure beats being a laid off ex-GM, or a unpaid supplier
laying off their people. GM has hurt a lot of people with it's immoral and
unethical behavior and self denial.
Canuck57
> He has such a hatred for anything built by the CAW/UAW, or any company
> associated with them, but ask him what he drives...
I drive a F150, one of the highest foreign content trucks in it's class. A
whopping amount of non-union parts from Mexico.
My next one will be 100% UAW/CAW free. They sold out their fellow workers
union and non-union.
Your point?
labatyd
> The retail price of vehicle is set by the market in which the vehicle is
> sold, not based on the cost to build the vehicle.
As are all prices.
The same vehicle, sold
> in three different countries will have three different prices. The build
> cost in the US is only around one third of the MSRP.
Then how mcome GM can't make a profit?
labatyd
> Does that mean you believe Toyota wouldn't
> sell a single vehicle if it were not for the taxpayers of Japan, as well
> dummy?
>
GM is screwing Americans. For GM's benefit.
Toyota is screwing Japanese. (for our benefit)
Canuck57
>
> "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4a48d47e$0$27638$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
>> The retail price of vehicle is set by the market in which the vehicle is
>> sold, not based on the cost to build the vehicle.
>
> As are all prices.
>
> The same vehicle, sold
>> in three different countries will have three different prices. The build
>> cost in the US is only around one third of the MSRP.
>
> Then how mcome GM can't make a profit?
GM, gouging consumbers and losing money at the same time.
Mike will fall back on imports or "Japan", not realizing Honda, Toyota and
Nissan make cars in the same market that does GM and do so at a profit. And
Japan does not subsidize North American operations.
GM is racketeering to defraud the taxpayer.
Mike
assemble vehicles the US, using mostly import materials and parts in plants
that were built with state taxpayers bonds using employees trained to state
schools with taxpayer money, but the fact remains more than half of all the
vehicles sold in the US by the Japs are IMPORTED and all of the profits go
back to Japan US corporate tax free.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:o7n2m.2338$066....@newsfe08.iad...
Mike
The same reason the Jap auto makers are currently losing money, dummy. the
market of off 40%
"labatyd" <fa...@fake.net> wrote in message
news:wJKdnW1cVfRD8NTX...@posted.sasktel...
>
> "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4a48d47e$0$27638$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
>> The retail price of vehicle is set by the market in which the vehicle is
>> sold, not based on the cost to build the vehicle.
Mike
of the Jap assembly plant in the US have the benefits of a union?
Except for the Tacoma, made in a union plant, how many parts in a Toyota are
made by union workers?
Why does the average Toyota, assembled in the US of "world sourced parts
according to Toyota," by workers with far fewer benefits and lower wages
than union workers, cost 20% to 30% MORE to drive home from the dealership
than domestics brands of the same size and similarly equipped, according to
the US Department of Commerce site?
Curious isn't it?
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:4Gc2m.1964$hB1....@newsfe11.iad...
Mike
brand. Obviously your personal opinion is that of a minority LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message news:oDc2m.1963.
Mike
brand. Obviously your personal opinion is that of a minority LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Jwc2m.1962$hB1...@newsfe11.iad...
Mike
brand. Obviously your personal opinion is that of a minority LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8oc2m.1961$hB1....@newsfe11.iad...
Eric Oulashin
brands, naturally it would be easier to sell more cars than another
company that sells under only 1 or 2 brand names. I think that's more a
sign of the sheer size of GM rather than the quality of their products.
Canuck57
> That may be your opinion but GM still sells more vehicle than ANY other
> brand. Obviously your personal opinion is that of a minority LOL
Every one at a loss, below cost and subsidised by the taxpayer.
GM, needy, greedy and corrupt. Plenty stupid too.
Canuck57
> However the Japanese government subsidize the CORPORATION. The Japs do
> assemble vehicles the US, using mostly import materials and parts in
> plants that were built with state taxpayers bonds using employees trained
> to state schools with taxpayer money, but the fact remains more than half
> of all the vehicles sold in the US by the Japs are IMPORTED and all of the
> profits go back to Japan US corporate tax free.
I will add paranoia to GM Disease description. I say this as you really
believe Ford, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Suzuki, Nissan, Fiat, VW and others all
ganged up on poor little GM?
I submit GM did it 100% to itself by iteself with 100% incompetance, greed,
self denial, corruption, stagnation, unions, appathy and pathetic stupidity.
Sheep have more common sense, they don't try to pull others onto the tracks
staring straight at a freight train blowing its horn.
GMers are loosers.
Canuck57
> Economics 101, the cost of doing business depends on one economies of
> scale. The same reason the Jap auto makers are currently losing money,
> dummy. the market of off 40%
And GM couldn't do that right either. LOL.
Canuck57
Canuck57
> What makes you believe the Mexican auto workers are not unionized? How
> many of the Jap assembly plant in the US have the benefits of a union?
>
> Except for the Tacoma, made in a union plant, how many parts in a Toyota
> are made by union workers?
No worry, I am getting the next one offshore. I want zero CAW/UAW in the
next one.
> Why does the average Toyota, assembled in the US of "world sourced parts
> according to Toyota," by workers with far fewer benefits and lower wages
> than union workers, cost 20% to 30% MORE to drive home from the dealership
> than domestics brands of the same size and similarly equipped, according
> to the US Department of Commerce site?
>
> Curious isn't it?
Actually, you should pull you head out of your arse for this.
Many Toyota vehicle employ and have more NA content than do GMs. Take the
Volt, comes to NA in 10 easy pieces. Essentially assembled, but not made
here.
Take a cup of reality-juice. You are in dire need of it.
Canuck57
"Eric Oulashin" <eric.o...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2dt6q$kp9$1...@news.bbs-scene.org...
> Might that be because GM owns so many different brands? With so many
> brands, naturally it would be easier to sell more cars than another
> company that sells under only 1 or 2 brand names. I think that's more a
> sign of the sheer size of GM rather than the quality of their products.
Well said. Sister in-law is about the only one that has a GM and we were
over the other night. They are dumping it, it has that manifold issue
everyone is talking about. So I asked what they they were going to replace
it with. They said not a GM and not a Chrylser, crap vehicles and pissed
with them grabbing tax dollars.
LMAO.
<RJ>
wrote:
>Why does the average Toyota, assembled in the US of "world sourced parts
>according to Toyota," by workers with far fewer benefits and lower wages
>than union workers, cost 20% to 30% MORE to drive home from the dealership
>than domestics brands of the same size and similarly equipped, according to
>the US Department of Commerce site?
>
>Curious isn't it?
>
Someone posted the answer earlier;
Sell Price is determined by Demand, not Build Cost.
Toyota did it right with their sedans.
Instead of putting effort into fins, chrome, and fluff.
they just kept improving reliability.
American consumers are not that stupid.
When you're putting down close to $20,000 for a new car,
you want reliability.
80 Knight
news:92al45dog0q6rab0n...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:06:26 -0400, "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Why does the average Toyota, assembled in the US of "world sourced parts
>>according to Toyota," by workers with far fewer benefits and lower wages
>>than union workers, cost 20% to 30% MORE to drive home from the dealership
>>than domestics brands of the same size and similarly equipped, according
>>to
>>the US Department of Commerce site?
>>
>>Curious isn't it?
>>
> Someone posted the answer earlier;
>
> Sell Price is determined by Demand, not Build Cost.
>
> Toyota did it right with their sedans.
> Instead of putting effort into fins, chrome, and fluff.
> they just kept improving reliability.
Fins and chrome? What fucking decade are you living in?
> American consumers are not that stupid.
Yet, you seem to be as dumb as a railroad spike. Interesting.
> When you're putting down close to $20,000 for a new car,
> you want reliability.
Yes, and I'm sure all those Tundra owners who had there front wheels fly off
were very pleased.
80 Knight
> brands, naturally it would be easier to sell more cars than another
> company that sells under only 1 or 2 brand names. I think that's more a
> sign of the sheer size of GM rather than the quality of their products.
Eric, you're denser then a black hole. Do you think Ford, Chrysler, and
Toyota only have 1 brand?
Eric Oulashin
> Eric, you're denser then a black hole. Do you think Ford, Chrysler, and
> Toyota only have 1 brand?
I didn't say that.. Why would you think that? I know Toyota also sells
under the brand name Lexus and that Ford owns several other brands. And
do you think that Ford, Chrysler, and Toyota are the only other brands
besides GM? :)
The thing is that GM had quite a bit more brand names than other car
companies. Most other car companies that I'm aware of have at most 2
brands. From what I know, Lexus is Toyota's only other brand; Honda's
only other brand (I believe) is Acura; etc. How many brands did GM own
before their recent breakup? I can think of 9: Pontiac, Chevrolet,
Cadillac, Buick, GMC, Hummer, Saab, Saturn, and Oldsmobile. 9 brands is
quite a bit more than what most other car companies have. :)
So my point in my previous email was that with all those brands, of
course GM's total car sales are likely to be more than a company that
owns only 1-3 brands.
80 Knight
> 80 Knight wrote:
>> Eric, you're denser then a black hole. Do you think Ford, Chrysler, and
>> Toyota only have 1 brand?
>
> I didn't say that.. Why would you think that?
I apologize Eric. I didn't mean to jump down your throat, it's been a long
week, and I thought you were a sock puppet at first (no offence intended).
I'll add comments below, but please note that they are not meant as insults.
> I know Toyota also sells under the brand name Lexus and that Ford owns
> several other brands. And do you think that Ford, Chrysler, and Toyota
> are the only other brands besides GM? :)
You are very right, there are many different brands out there. My only
problem is I don't think GM having 8, is any better then Toyota having 3, or
Ford having 3. If people hate GM (which is what this thread has turned
into), they wouldn't buy a Buick anymore then they would buy a Chevy. "Mike
Hunt" is usually a clueless moron, and rarely has the proof to back up his
"claims", but the facts are that GM does indeed sell more automobiles then
any other manufacture. Ford is in second place, with Toyota taking up the
rear.
> The thing is that GM had quite a bit more brand names than other car
> companies. Most other car companies that I'm aware of have at most 2
> brands. From what I know, Lexus is Toyota's only other brand; Honda's
> only other brand (I believe) is Acura; etc. How many brands did GM own
> before their recent breakup? I can think of 9: Pontiac, Chevrolet,
> Cadillac, Buick, GMC, Hummer, Saab, Saturn, and Oldsmobile. 9 brands is
> quite a bit more than what most other car companies have. :)
Actually, Oldsmobile was ended back in 2002 or so, so GM is (at the moment)
down to 8 brands. Toyota also has Scion, bringing it to 3.
> So my point in my previous email was that with all those brands, of course
> GM's total car sales are likely to be more than a company that owns only
> 1-3 brands.
But, as I stated above, it does not matter how many brands a company has.
People obviously like GM products, or they wouldn't be selling 20,000+ more
then Toyota. Some on this group seem to think that people hate GM, either
for "bad products", "tax payer abuse" (LOL though, in fairness, that guy's
an idiot), or whatever the reason, so they ASSume people aren't buying GM.
The fact is, people are buying GM more then any other auto brand, and GM's
sales are actually doing much better then the 43+% drop of Toyota, for
example.
Canuck57
> That may be your opinion but GM still sells more vehicle than ANY other
> brand. Obviously your personal opinion is that of a minority LOL
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18286221/
Old news but relivant.
Eric Oulashin
> the facts are that GM does indeed
> sell more automobiles then any other manufacture. Ford is in second
> place, with Toyota taking up the rear.
Hmm, I had thought that Toyota was one of the leading car sellers. I
just did a quick search online and found an article that says Toyota was
ranked first in global auto sales in the first half of 2008, and then GM
was #1 for the second half of 2008. The article is here:
http://www.i4u.com/article19220.html
I'd be surprised if Toyota was doing poorly, because I've always heard
Toyotas are reliable, quality cars. I've known people who have owned
Toyotas that were near 20 years old before being replaced. I've never
heard anything bad about them.
> Some on this group seem to think that people
> hate GM, either for "bad products", "tax payer abuse" (LOL though, in
> fairness, that guy's an idiot), or whatever the reason, so they ASSume
> people aren't buying GM.
My initial reaction to GM's bankruptcy and bailout which happened this
year was that GM must have went bankrupt because people indeed were not
buying GM cars. But I suppose there could be other reasons - for
instance, I've heard that workers' unions and bad management hurt GM's
bottom line.
I don't hate GM, as you've mentioned, but one thing I have heard from
many people is that during the 1980s, American car companies in general
weren't putting out as good of a car as the Japanese imports (Toyota and
Honda were making cars that were both more reliable and more
fuel-efficient). Indeed, I've seen many Toyotas and Hondas on the road,
and I still see a lot of Toyotas and Hondas from the 80s. I know
American auto makers have gotten better since the 80s, but perhaps for
some, their stigma has still lasted.
Eric
HLS
> My initial reaction to GM's bankruptcy and bailout which happened this
> year was that GM must have went bankrupt because people indeed were not
> buying GM cars. But I suppose there could be other reasons - for
> instance, I've heard that workers' unions and bad management hurt GM's
> bottom line.
GM has had profitability problems for a couple of decades. Toyota was more
profitable for most of this period.
This past year has been an exception in terms of what each company could
reasonably expect.
Toyota and GM have both been world's leaders in sales at times. Sometimes
figures are skewed by production figures which may not at all be the same
as sales figures.
Then, some only look at US sales when they make these statements.
Mullaly of Ford gets the credit for leading that company into relative
prosperity
while others are dying. Two years ago, brokerage researchers predicted that
Ford was inevitably "toast"....but they were wrong about a lot of things.
I dont think anyone could have saved Chrysler.
Wagoner probably deserves his fate. GM had the platform to be successful
and
profitable, but he didnt have the qualities to bring it about.
All of the above are my opinons only.
Canuck57
I can't say I hate GM either, but do hate their behavior. Being a
libertarian, I see the GM tax grab as shifting the costs of their
incompetance to other people, most of which make less than a GMer. This
retaining jobs BS is just that, BS, who is bailing out the majority of
non-auto being laid off? Even if you are a GMer or auto worker laid off,
who is bailing you out?
One company costing so much smacks of corruption.
Mike
reference was to number of VEHICLES sold the US market, the world largest,
where every major vehicle manufacture is loosing money the down market.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:v1O2m.1235$Kn1....@newsfe09.iad...
Mike
Perhaps but if you check you local domestic dealers used car lots and you
will find a lot of those so called superior Jap cars that were traded on
domestics LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Kvx2m.18$wE4...@newsfe02.iad...
Canuck57
>
> Perhaps but if you check you local domestic dealers used car lots and you
> will find a lot of those so called superior Jap cars that were traded on
> domestics LOL
Japanese named domestics, I hear ya.
Canuck57
> If you had read the post before you deleted it, you would have seen the
> reference was to number of VEHICLES sold the US market, the world largest,
> where every major vehicle manufacture is loosing money the down market.
Bet that before the year is out, that will change, if it hasn't already.
Mike
you are still wrong LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:jCQ2m.68$Il...@newsfe16.iad...
Mike
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:sBQ2m.67$Il...@newsfe16.iad...
Canuck57
>I guess in YOUR world, a Japanese corporation IS domestic LOL
Read this an inform yourself:
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/26/toyota-factory-rated-best-for-quality/
Nut shell, foreign companies are expected to outproduce all of Detroit on
American soil by 2012.
For those that want to see that GM does not mater to North America (other
than to funnel corruption moneys) see what you can buy, north American made
and not come near Detroit D3 losers!
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/06/19/automobiles/20090619-auto-plants-4.html
And this is priceless...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/automobiles/21intro.html?_r=1
Government Motors BS does not float with me. I love debunking BSers.
Mike
parts," according to Toyota, that does not make them a domestic company.
Toyota is still a Japanese corporation that imports 52% of the vehicles it
sells in the US, dummy.
The US Department of Commerce site list Toyota as having only 30% of its
materials and part as being US products. LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:R%S2m.6298$9E7....@newsfe20.iad...
Canuck57
> Just because a company assembles vehicles in the US of "World sourced
> parts," according to Toyota, that does not make them a domestic company.
> Toyota is still a Japanese corporation that imports 52% of the vehicles it
> sells in the US, dummy.
>
> The US Department of Commerce site list Toyota as having only 30% of its
> materials and part as being US products. LOL
Funny. Maybe that is why GM is broke. But look at the real numbers below,
you are as usual full of sh!t.
Mike
domestic are showing losses at the current selling rate, you are as usual
full of sh!t. ;)
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:hjb3m.2231$dd4...@newsfe10.iad...
80 Knight
> 80 Knight wrote:
>> the facts are that GM does indeed sell more automobiles then any other
>> manufacture. Ford is in second place, with Toyota taking up the rear.
>
> Hmm, I had thought that Toyota was one of the leading car sellers. I just
> did a quick search online and found an article that says Toyota was ranked
> first in global auto sales in the first half of 2008, and then GM was #1
> for the second half of 2008. The article is here:
> http://www.i4u.com/article19220.html
Toyota is indeed one of the leading car sellers, but as of June 1st 2009, GM
is still in #1 place, Ford is in second, and Toyota in third. Toyota is
also loosing money, just like everyone else.
> I'd be surprised if Toyota was doing poorly, because I've always heard
> Toyotas are reliable, quality cars. I've known people who have owned
> Toyotas that were near 20 years old before being replaced. I've never
> heard anything bad about them.
You really need to do some research on Toyota's. Do a Google search for
"Tundra" for example. You'll be enlightened to see how some of the front
tires have came flying off. Then take a look at the "Prius", and see how
many of them have accelerated themselves into traffic (and yes, I mean the
car itself, not the driver). No car company is perfect, that is a fact. I
have friends and family with GM vehicles that are older then me, and in
pristine condition, both looks and running. Eve see a Toyota from the 60's
around town? You have been won over by Toyota's PR machine, if you think
they never break down.
>> Some on this group seem to think that people hate GM, either for "bad
>> products", "tax payer abuse" (LOL though, in fairness, that guy's an
>> idiot), or whatever the reason, so they ASSume people aren't buying GM.
>
> My initial reaction to GM's bankruptcy and bailout which happened this
> year was that GM must have went bankrupt because people indeed were not
> buying GM cars. But I suppose there could be other reasons - for
> instance, I've heard that workers' unions and bad management hurt GM's
> bottom line.
There are a lot of different reasons. But, like I said, at the moment, GM
is still outselling every other auto manufacture.
> I don't hate GM, as you've mentioned, but one thing I have heard from many
> people is that during the 1980s, American car companies in general weren't
> putting out as good of a car as the Japanese imports (Toyota and Honda
> were making cars that were both more reliable and more fuel-efficient).
> Indeed, I've seen many Toyotas and Hondas on the road, and I still see a
> lot of Toyotas and Hondas from the 80s. I know American auto makers have
> gotten better since the 80s, but perhaps for some, their stigma has still
> lasted.
I'll admit when GM and the other Domestic's have built garbage, and in the
past they have. So has Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. The problem is when
Toyota builds a vehicle with a defective front end, the media leaves them
alone. When GM build a vehicle with a defective light bulb, the media jumps
on them like white on rice. The fact that you have heard nothing about
Toyota's problems says it right there (at least for you).
Eric Oulashin
> You really need to do some research on Toyota's. Do a Google search for
> "Tundra" for example. You'll be enlightened to see how some of the
> front tires have came flying off. Then take a look at the "Prius", and
> see how many of them have accelerated themselves into traffic (and yes,
> I mean the car itself, not the driver). No car company is perfect, that
> is a fact. I have friends and family with GM vehicles that are older
> then me, and in pristine condition, both looks and running. Eve see a
> Toyota from the 60's around town? You have been won over by Toyota's PR
> machine, if you think they never break down.
> I'll admit when GM and the other Domestic's have built garbage, and in
> the past they have. So has Toyota, Honda, Nissan, etc. The problem is
> when Toyota builds a vehicle with a defective front end, the media
> leaves them alone. When GM build a vehicle with a defective light bulb,
> the media jumps on them like white on rice. The fact that you have
> heard nothing about Toyota's problems says it right there (at least for
> you).
I never said Toyotas never break down. No cars last forever. And it's
not that I just haven't heard anything bad about Toyota, I've had
first-hand observations of people I've known who have owned them in the
past. My mom had a 1980 Toyota Celica that she eventually replaced in
1998, and the only major reason was that the transmission was having
some trouble. My brother had a 1978 Toyota Celica that he eventually
replaced in the mid 90s. I still do see plenty of Toyotas from the 80s
on the road. I really don't watch a lot of TV, so I don't see much
advertising, or "PR machine", as you call it.
I also have first-hand experience owning a 1987 Buick LeSabre (a GM
car), and a friend of mine had an 85 Buick Park Avenue, and both had
quite a bit of problems.
Of course, my ideas on these companies aren't set in stone; of course, I
realize that companies and their products can change. :) From the
sounds of it, I suppose Toyota is going down the drain and GM have
gotten better..
Vic Smith
GM has had more problematic cars than Toyota.
Mostly because it spread itself thin with too many models, and didn't
concentrate on continually improving fewer models.
But there's other reasons too.
Toyota's bread and butter is the Camry and Corolla.
Surprised you mentioned Celicas, as I never thought they were a
stellar Toyota offering for reliability.
Not that I really know, but a friend had a mid 80's Celica that gave
him a lot of trouble.
--Vic
Mike
the road. If you ever go to old cars shows as I do, try to find a Toyota
or any other Jap car for that matter, except for a few XR7s and some "Z"
cars on occasion.
You will see plenty of domestic sedans, from the 60's or 70s as well as cars
from Europe, but Jap cars are a rarity.
"Eric Oulashin" <eric.o...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2k4lp$193$1...@news.bbs-scene.org...
Eric Oulashin
> If the Jap cars were so great where are the old one, certainly not still on
> the road.
I certainly still see plenty of 80s Toyotas and Hondas on the road where
I live.. But having said that, I do see some GM cars as well.
> If you ever go to old cars shows as I do, try to find a Toyota
> or any other Jap car for that matter, except for a few XR7s and some "Z"
> cars on occasion.
>
> You will see plenty of domestic sedans, from the 60's or 70s as well as cars
> from Europe, but Jap cars are a rarity.
At an old car show, any car that's in good condition would have to have
been restored or maintained exceptionally well, because any car will age
over time. So whoever owns the car probably spent lots of time and
money getting it restored or fixing it up.
Mike
there are sp many domestic and European cars?
"Eric Oulashin" <eric.o...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:h2lg6d$rvn$1...@news.bbs-scene.org...
80 Knight
You say that it isn't just that you haven't heard anything bad about Toyota,
yet there is tons of information about there screw ups on the Net. Like I
have said, the media gives them a break, but if you know how to use Google,
you'll find it. I already gave you a few items to start off with. The
problems with the Tundra were even admitted to by Toyota, so they aren't
figments of anyone's imagination.
> I also have first-hand experience owning a 1987 Buick LeSabre (a GM car),
> and a friend of mine had an 85 Buick Park Avenue, and both had quite a bit
> of problems.
And I've owned around 15 GM vehicles, and enjoyed each and ever one of them.
Usually, the main reason I sell is either to upgrade to a newer model, or
because I enjoy change ;)
> Of course, my ideas on these companies aren't set in stone; of course, I
> realize that companies and their products can change. :) From the sounds
> of it, I suppose Toyota is going down the drain and GM have gotten
> better..
I don't think Toyota is going down the drain. In my opinion, they tried to
get to the top (as in #1 auto seller) too quick, and suffered severe quality
issues in doing so. At the moment, all the auto makers are loosing money,
but with Toyota held up by the Japanese Government, and GM held up by the
American/Canadian Governments, and both making good vehicles, who knows what
the future holds.
Larry
@news.bbs-scene.org:
> I never said Toyotas never break down. No cars last forever.
Man! I'm glad you guys cleared that up!
I just came back from dinner in my 1973 Mercedes 220D sedan I bought from a
Navy captain in 1986. A set of rings, a little paint, some rust repair
because I live near salt water...
It didn't cost much to get to dinner. My used fryer oil thinned with
mineral spirits (painting contractors sell it cheap) costs me about
16c/gallon of late and some labor.
See seemed to run fine with one overhaul in 1997 at 427,000 miles. She's
got over 600K on her clock, now. It's nearly battery replacement time,
again, though. It's been 7 years....(c;]
I rode by a body shop today in North Charleston, SC, and sitting out front
was a bright yellow 1957 Chevy panel wagon that looked like it just got
restored. How beautiful. Even the chrome looked brand new, though I was
afraid to stop as that's just too dangerous! Must have been someone's
service truck that got put in a warehouse and forgotten about until
recently. They probably want a fortune....??
Anyone who's interested, post a reply and I'll try to get you a number off
the for sale sign in the windshield. I don't think she'll last long.
Charleston loves old cars....
--
-----
Larry
If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?
Larry
news:4a4e1e50$0$27629$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net:
> If the Jap cars were so great where are the old one, certainly not
> still on the road. If you ever go to old cars shows as I do, try to
> find a Toyota or any other Jap car for that matter, except for a few
> XR7s and some "Z" cars on occasion.
>
I fixed church organs before I retired recently, so I have some insight
to the Japanese business culture in the areas of big ticket consumer
products.
Japanese people live in a throw-away society. The newer and more
complex, the better. Because of World War 2 mostly destroying the
country and economy, that's about day zero for most young Japanese
people. They've never gotten "old car fever" because after the B-25's
got done there weren't too many old cars to have a fever over.
This is one reason there's not too much demand for "vintage" Japanese
cars...They recycle them, instead of restore, buying the latest and
greatest they can afford. This corporate and individual mentality
drives their economy into overdrive since WW2.
The manufacturers also drive this throw away mentality by running
replacement parts of a model about 5 years, then making as sure as they
can that all parts for the oldest cars are also recycled, instead of
warehoused somewhere. Try buying a new window winder for a 72 Corolla.
I'm only guessing but it probably doesn't exist. Organ and keyboard
spare parts are only kept about 5 years, then simply dumped to a
recycler, instead of being sold off to someone to sell as antique
electronic organ parts. Don't fix anything past a certain age....just
go buy a new one.
I know a lady with a $35,000 Yamaha theatre organ in perfect-looking
condition in her living room. It's way past its design date, so when I
call Yamaha Music to see about getting vital repair parts, such as the
oddball computer board extender card that would let me test circuits out
of a box you can't see into....the extender card, IC devices and that
board I suspect is hosed simply doesn't exist.....Dump it....Buy new.
Mike
enough to be able to show them at car shows?
The Japs are much smarter than Americans when to comes to what they buy.
They buy from their own corporations making products in their own county to
support their own economy and jobs. Americans not so much.
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3DBD5B848...@74.209.131.13...
labatyd
> What does that have to do with American buyers of Jap cars keeping them
> long enough to be able to show them at car shows?
>
> The Japs are much smarter than Americans when to comes to what they buy.
> They buy from their own corporations making products in their own county
> to support their own economy and jobs. Americans not so much.
Something you must remember, every import is matched at some point in time
with an export. It may not immediately or auto for auto. Someone in America
gets to export something of equal value for every car imported. So when you
restrict someone's imported Toyota you have killed an export. Nothing is
lost to USA.
<snip>
Eric Oulashin
> Perhaps, but WHY then are there few if ANY Jap cars at those shows when
> there are sp many domestic and European cars?
Personally, I'd have to say that American and European cars have better
exterior styling than Japanese cars. I can't think of a Japanese car
that really stands out in my mind as far as styling goes, but the
American muscle cars of the late 60s and 70s stand out. I often see 60s
& 70s muscle cars at car shows.
Eric Oulashin
> The Japs are much smarter than Americans when to comes to what they buy.
> They buy from their own corporations making products in their own county to
> support their own economy and jobs. Americans not so much.
hmm.. Honda and Toyota both have plants in the US. Volkswagen is
building a plant in Tennessee. Hyundai and BMW also have manufacturing
plants in the US. All of those plants create American jobs. So really,
what's the difference? We seem to have plenty of choice of cars to buy,
both from domestic and foreign brands, that can support the US economy.
Also, one of the nice things about the US is that we have a free market.
That means everyone has the choice to buy what they want! If you want
to buy American, or anything else, nobody is stopping you. Personally,
I think personal choice and freedom are two of the things that makes
this country great. To dictate that people only buy American-brand
products seems to go against the principle of freedom that we enjoy in
this country.
Larry
news:4a4ecced$0$27646$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net:
> The Japs are much smarter than Americans when to comes to what they
> buy. They buy from their own corporations making products in their own
> county to support their own economy and jobs. Americans not so much.
>
>
If you investigate that a little closer, you'll find out how HARD it is for
outside companies to actually sell things to Japanese people in Japan.
Tariffs are very stiff making foreign goods very expensive, a gift the
government gives to Japanese corporations who fund politicians very
heavily.
Besides, what have we got to compare to the Mitsuoka Nouera?
http://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/japan%
20car/mitsuoka/nouera/325640/photo/?sid=300&pn=1
The front looks like a classic Jaguar. The back is pure DeVille!
There must be a hundred models of Hondas, alone, that we've never heard of!
http://www.tradecarview.com/
Larry
@news.bbs-scene.org:
> Volkswagen is
> building a plant in Tennessee.
Volkswagen has been building cars in America for years. I asked a VW
mechanic what was the difference between a German VW and an American VW.
He thought a minute and said, "About 4 hours."
"Huh? What's that mean?, I asked.
"Well, with a German VW, I can clean off the shipping coating, check the
fluid levels and hand the keys to the customer because she's ready to
go. With the American VW, I have to go over it and finish building what
they forgot."
I had an '89 Nissan Stanza Wagon built in the USA and knew what he was
talking about. The Japanese power train had 380,000 miles on it and
didn't use a drop of oil. Its automatic transmission that had spent its
life in city traffic worked flawlessly. The body was made in USA, or at
least assembled here. You could tell that because various parts were
constantly degluing themselves from the frame...headliner, ALL THE DOOR
SEALS, carpets, seat cushions and sidepanels in the doors fell apart,
all the stuff Americans built into the car.
The kid I sold it to at 420,000 miles is still driving the little
station wagon and has restored the look of it. He bought it a brake
caliper and replaced the front disks when the brake pads needed
replacing. Oh, and one of the 5,873,403 relays arranged in neat rows
throughout the car failed so the rear window defroster wouldn't come on.
All the relays just plug in so he fixed that, himself.
Right after I got it, I lost two electric fuel pumps in a row. The
common rail injection has a pressure relief valve that regulates fuel
pressure to around 40 pounds to a line back in the tank. The valve
wouldn't open and without the constant flow of fuel through the pump, it
overheated and seized. The valve was part of the rail, so I had to
replace the plumbing the valve was part of....It ran like crap on 70 psi
of gas pressure instead of the 35-38 the specs were, I think...
A set of cheap Korean tires lasted 90,000 miles before the low tread
markers showed. Amazingly it never needed a wheel alignment...at all!
GM can make cars like this. I just know they can. But, some
beancounter prevents it, resulting in the company going bankrupt on its
wonderful reputation of quality and reliability. My '96 Caprice Classic
kept shorting out because of the goddamned hookup wire loosely wrapped
in plastic electrical tape from China was catching the sharp edges of
bent sheet metal in the doors....blowing a big breaker. Not being able
to roll the windows up in the rain is no fun.
The window lifters in it were cheap plastic ("cheap" in Chevyspeak is a
quality term, not price at the Chevy dealer parts counter.) Two of the
4 windows fell down into the door riding along in the hot SC sunshine.
The plastic melted and the scissors part dropped the slotted base under
the glass. I called GM to see if there were a recall or at least a fix
for this problem....
GM TOLD ME TO PARK THE CAR IN THE SHADE, NOT IN THE SUN!
Bankruptcy is a blessing to the American Consumer. This was my father's
car. He died 2 years ago. It lived at the dealer's shop where they
told him the radio was why his battery kept failing. He unfused the
radio, rather than hand those cheating bastards $1600 for a replacement.
When I got the car, I put the fuse back and THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH
THE RADIO AT ALL. Great dealers are hard to find. Chevy must not have
them. The Chevy dealer in N Charleston, SC, wanted $16+ for a cheap
plastic heater knob. I declined and bought a whole box of generic ones
from Autozone for $4. $16 for a HEATER KNOB?!
Larry
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/422697/bugatti_veyron_on_top_gear/
"Muscle Cars" are now made in France.....(c;]
10 radiators, 16 cylinder, 1000hp, double V-8, 407km/hr, and they say it
feels like it belongs there.
--
-----
Larry
"Can we build one for you?"
Oh, the titanium turn signal lever is hand made. $5000+ British Pounds.
Mike Marlow
>
> I had an '89 Nissan Stanza Wagon built in the USA and knew what he was
> talking about. The Japanese power train had 380,000 miles on it and
> didn't use a drop of oil. Its automatic transmission that had spent its
> life in city traffic worked flawlessly. The body was made in USA, or at
> least assembled here. You could tell that because various parts were
> constantly degluing themselves from the frame...headliner, ALL THE DOOR
> SEALS, carpets, seat cushions and sidepanels in the doors fell apart,
> all the stuff Americans built into the car.
Well, I'll call bullshit on this stuff Larry. 380,000 miles and not using a
drop of oil, *and* an automatic tranny that spent its life in city traffic
working flawlessly is just pure bullshit. Too many of us here have been
deep inside engines and trannys to let something like this slide. The
remainder of the above paragraph is equally suspect.
>
> The kid I sold it to at 420,000 miles is still driving the little
> station wagon and has restored the look of it. He bought it a brake
> caliper and replaced the front disks when the brake pads needed
> replacing. Oh, and one of the 5,873,403 relays arranged in neat rows
> throughout the car failed so the rear window defroster wouldn't come on.
> All the relays just plug in so he fixed that, himself.
>
> Right after I got it, I lost two electric fuel pumps in a row. The
> common rail injection has a pressure relief valve that regulates fuel
> pressure to around 40 pounds to a line back in the tank. The valve
> wouldn't open and without the constant flow of fuel through the pump, it
> overheated and seized. The valve was part of the rail, so I had to
> replace the plumbing the valve was part of....It ran like crap on 70 psi
> of gas pressure instead of the 35-38 the specs were, I think...
>
> A set of cheap Korean tires lasted 90,000 miles before the low tread
> markers showed. Amazingly it never needed a wheel alignment...at all!
Larry - come on... you can throw out a few more unbelievable super stunts,
can't you? How about something like you're still running the car on the
first tank of fuel you ever bought for it? And... it still has that new car
smell in it after all these years...
>
> GM can make cars like this. I just know they can. But, some
> beancounter prevents it, resulting in the company going bankrupt on its
> wonderful reputation of quality and reliability. My '96 Caprice Classic
> kept shorting out because of the goddamned hookup wire loosely wrapped
> in plastic electrical tape from China was catching the sharp edges of
> bent sheet metal in the doors....blowing a big breaker. Not being able
> to roll the windows up in the rain is no fun.
Your car didn't have the rubber boot that all GM vehicles have?
>
> The window lifters in it were cheap plastic ("cheap" in Chevyspeak is a
> quality term, not price at the Chevy dealer parts counter.) Two of the
> 4 windows fell down into the door riding along in the hot SC sunshine.
> The plastic melted and the scissors part dropped the slotted base under
> the glass. I called GM to see if there were a recall or at least a fix
> for this problem....
>
> GM TOLD ME TO PARK THE CAR IN THE SHADE, NOT IN THE SUN!
Alas - the downfall of a great company - this is all too common a thing from
GM. It's the kind of thing that forced me to believe they deserved
everything that came their way.
>
> If a man goes way out into the woods all alone and says something,
> is it still wrong, even though no woman hears him?
Maybe not, but he'll still catch hell for it.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@windstream.net
Mike
Do you really expect anyone to believe that VW, Toyota or any other foreign
corporation that assembles cars in the US, would have different production
standard than they do in their own country?
Don't try to tell us it is the workers fault, build quality is a function of
management, period. Apparently you just like to hear yourself talk and do
not know anything about the subject LOL
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3EC3AEE27...@74.209.131.13...
Mike
Eric Oulashin
> Do you really expect anyone to believe that VW, Toyota or any other foreign
> corporation that assembles cars in the US, would have different production
> standard than they do in their own country?
>
> Don't try to tell us it is the workers fault, build quality is a function of
> management, period. Apparently you just like to hear yourself talk and do
> not know anything about the subject LOL
Actually, apparently it's true that assembly plants in other countries
don't always follow company standards. I was talking to a VW
salesperson who was telling me that VW was having a lot of quality
control problems at their Mexico plant, and as a result, many of their
New Beetles (which are made in Mexico) were having a lot of problems.
The reason, said the salesperson, was that the manager of VW's Mexico
plant was not inspecting the cars before delivery, which is something
they're supposed to do. As a result, that manager was fired.
HLS
"80 Knight" <nos...@please.com> wrote in message
The
> problems with the Tundra were even admitted to by Toyota, so they aren't
> figments of anyone's imagination.
I have heard this mentioned on this group, and have since asked a lot of
Tundra
owners about their experiences. I have yet to find anyone who is not happy
with
this vehicle...Now, this is very anecdotal, but take it for what it is
worth.
Canuck57
>
> Do you really expect anyone to believe that VW, Toyota or any other
> foreign corporation that assembles cars in the US, would have different
> production standard than they do in their own country?
I know GM did. A GM-Vauxhall Cavalier 1981 was shur not the same as a Chevy
Cavalier in North America. Shape is all they shared. NA version was crap.
Euro version was nice.
> Don't try to tell us it is the workers fault, build quality is a function
> of management, period. Apparently you just like to hear yourself talk and
> do not know anything about the subject LOL
I blame all of GM for their issues.
Canuck57
> Don't try to tell us it is the workers fault, build quality is a function
> of management, period. Apparently you just like to hear yourself talk and
> do not know anything about the subject LOL
To add, quality is EVERYONEs responsibility that works or supplies the
business. No exceptions!
Larry
@news-radius.ptd.net:
> You are so full of $#it your eyes MUST be brown!
>
>
I think it's only fair to point out that I was a lucky Pontiac
Bonneville Brougham DIESEL 350 V-8 owner with EXTENSIVE experience with
GM management sitting on the OTHER side of the bargaining table.
28K miles on the first RoosaMaster injection pump with the steel pistons
rubbing the aluminum off the cheap housing. The car simply stopped in
the middle of nowhere, would restart and run a mile before stopping dead
again. A diesel shop in Charleston had better pumps so, after pump 2
failed, a rebuilt PoS from the Pontiac dealer, I replaced it with the
aftermarket that fixed it.
32K miles on the shit transmission the jerking from the gas conversion
diesel pulled apart because some jerk couldn't figure out it needed a
BIGGER FLYWHEEL on a DIESEL. After transmission two, I decided to try
AAMCO to get a more professional opinion and lifetime warranty. AAMCO's
replacement for the jerky transmission had lots more clutch plates and
was still working fine when I unloaded this piece of American crap.
Every 10K miles all the belts had pulled themselves apart from the
jerking they took off the drive pulley. There is no cure for that
problem. I bought a LOT of belts.
After having the warped heads milled flat, I'd had enough and tried to
trade it for something else. GM dealers wanted no part of my Pontiac
DIESEL car and refused to take it in trade. I virtually gave it to a
used car dealer in trade on a Mercedes 220 Diesel sedan I drove 9 more
years before selling it barely less than I paid for it....unless you
think about the $18,000 wasted on the shit Pontiac.
Now, tell me how wonderful it was....
I was afraid to take the Bonneville on a trip outside of town....out of
tow truck range.
Going to arbitration with Pontiac was an interesting trip. I was
awarded the better injection pump, and AAMCO transmission because GM
couldn't supply operating parts you could trust. The two college
professors who were the arbitrators were very fair, especially after the
Pontiac Zone Manager lied to them so blatantly. I noted to the
arbitrator the Zone manager came from Charlotte, NC, 220 miles away in a
BMW, not a Pontiac. He didn't want to get STRANDED in his Pontiac,
either.
--
-----
Larry
Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
entrails of the last cleric.
Mike
bad, by ONE they may have owned even five years ago, let alone 25, is a fool
at best.
What if I judge all Toyotas available today, buy the Toyopet I owned back in
1957?
By the way who is this "Noone" guy, to whom you referred, and why would a
man of the cloth want to strangle him? LOL
"Larry" <no...@home.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3FCE72B98...@74.209.131.13...
> "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in news:4a50dd02$0$27642$ce5e7886
> @news-radius.ptd.net:
>
>> You are so full of $#it your eyes MUST be brown!
>>
>>
>
> I think it's only fair to point out that I was a lucky Pontiac
> Bonneville Brougham DIESEL 350 V-8 owner with EXTENSIVE experience with
> GM management sitting on the OTHER side of the bargaining table.
>
Mike
management. Do feel bad no one expect you to know that build quality is a
function of management, period.
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:0X74m.20661$Qk7....@newsfe22.iad...
Mike
choose to believe LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:bV74m.20656$Qk7....@newsfe22.iad...
>
> "Mike" <mike...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:4a50dd02$0$27642$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
>> You are so full of $#it your eyes MUST be brown!
>>
>> Do you really expect anyone to believe that VW, Toyota or any other
>> foreign corporation that assembles cars in the US, would have different
>> production standard than they do in their own country?
>
Mike
If the Tundra was such a good truck why did Toyota have to shut down the
factory in Texas, where they are built, for THREE month because sales were
in the Tank from day one?
Why was Toyota dumping $41,000 Tundra's at the Manheim Auto Auctions for a
low as $25,000, for almost sic months?
"HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:iL74m.11163$aX1....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
Canuck57
> Anybody who judges vehicles that are available on the market TODAY, good
> or bad, by ONE they may have owned even five years ago, let alone 25, is a
> fool at best.
Trouble is GM has been singing that same BS line for 30 years! Now with
part shortages, quality and substitution issues, warranty coverage issues...
GM is a bad risky buy right now.
> What if I judge all Toyotas available today, buy the Toyopet I owned back
> in 1957?
Your quote is out of context. 5 years is more valid than 52. 52 is less
relivant than 5.
And it isn't just about current quality, why patronize some business who has
burned you in the past? To add insult with GM they are burning everybody
as now they are taxing us va government corruption.
If people want less corruption, less screwing, they need to stop tollerating
and patronizing it. Especially since so many others make good products.
Which is why GM is as good as dead.
80 Knight
news:iL74m.11163$aX1....@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
Those you spoke with obviously haven't encountered the major recall Toyota
had on those trucks. Either that or they are typical "oh, boy, they fixed
it real good, and gave us coffee with cream and sugar, so we don't care
anymore" Import buyers.
Vic Smith
wrote:
>
>Those you spoke with obviously haven't encountered the major recall Toyota
>had on those trucks. Either that or they are typical "oh, boy, they fixed
>it real good, and gave us coffee with cream and sugar, so we don't care
>anymore" Import buyers.
My first criteria for judging a dealership is whether they have real
Half & Half or that powdered creamer for the free coffee. (-:
But hey, I thought Saturn was real good with that touchy-feely
stuff.
In any case, I've heard good dealerships are an important part of
customer satisfaction, and I believe it.
I bought an '88 Celebrity at Tom Todd in Wheeling, Illinois in '91.
32,000 miles on it.
There was a misunderstanding about the warranty still being in force
when I closed the deal, and the finance guy gave sold me 3/360 B to B
at cost.
A bit under $500 I think, but I got more back in claims.
Had the car in there 4 times I think. PS pump, a return to get new PS
hoses (they had mistakenly put "noisy hoses" on), a bad window switch,
and when I failed emissions they replaced 2 injectors, plugs and
wires.
They new squawked about, did the repairs right except for the hose
glitch, and drove me to work when I dropped off the car.
Would have picked me up too, but I worked with a guy who went that way
after work and he dropped me off.
Two times they had to keep it overnight and gave me a nice loaner.
Some might say that the repairs made the car unacceptable, but I loved
that car, and those were almost the only repairs I had done before
junking it at 190k miles due to rust. Growing pains maybe.
But if I was a new car buyer and got that kind of dealer service in
fixing things, I would be much more likely to come back and buy
another.
I'm hoping that GM's goal in cutting dealerships is based on customer
satisfaction.
Some dealerships are bitching about how they shouldn't be cut because
they have good sales.
If those sales are the last time a customer will buy a GM because they
get lousy service from the dealership, GM shouldn't want to keep them.
--Vic
HLS
I didnt ask questions except whether the owners had had any problems and
whether they were happy with their Tundra. All, so far, have been positive.
If Toyota did a recall, treated the people well, and fixed the problem,
that -
in and of itself - can be a positive experience.
From having owned many different makes of car, I know that problems
occur. It is how they are dealt with, many times, that leaves a lasting
impression.
Mike
how can that be if what you choose to believe was actually true? LOL
"Canuck57" <fr...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ziw4m.16108$R73....@newsfe12.iad...
Larry
news:4a53d8ed$0$24971$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net:
> But, but, but GM is still selling more vehicles than any other
> manufacturer, how can that be if what you choose to believe was
> actually true? LOL
>
>
Apple is selling record numbers of iPhones that can only run one program at
a time, not multitasking like the cheapest PC can, has a low resolution
screen and won't play over 90% of the music and video on the internet
webpages, like Flash or Windoes Media or Realvideo/audio.....
and it sells like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread..which it's
not.
Its called "Marketing".
Cue Dinah Shore - "See the USA, in your Chev Ro Let......"
Damn that bright yellow '57 Chevy panel wagon is still sitting in front of
the paint and body shop. I'm not gonna stop and look, I'm NOT gonna stop
and look, I'm NOT gonna stop and look.....
--
Ed Pawlowski
> But, but, but GM is still selling more vehicles than any other
> manufacturer, how can that be if what you choose to believe was actually
> true? LOL
>
All they have to do is figure out how to make money doing it. They more
they sell, the more they lose. Brilliant.