Runaway Toyota cases ignored
Tim
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-toyota-recall8-2009nov08%2C0%2C6120294.story
Runaway Toyota cases ignored
More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that
their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming
into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times
review of federal records has found...
Scott
"Tim" <jmet...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:a09c2$4afc998b$cef8ac46$31...@TEKSAVVY.COM...
They probably think the same as I, that clumsey owners with big feet put
the hammer down accidentally, and that isn't Toyota's fault.
If you have a car that still came with a throttle cable or linkage, there is
no way for it to do this unless a fat foot pushes on the wrong pedal.
Tim
And only Toyota owners do this in these numbers?
hls
"Tim" <jmet...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message news:8b253$4afca4ab$cef8ac46
>
> And only Toyota owners do this in these numbers?3964168
Wait until you know what is really going on before you make up your mind.
At this point, NONE of us knows what is really going on.
Steve W.
Uh there most certainly is a way for it to happen. Ever heard of cruise
control? It is very possible for a cruise control to malfunction and
pull the throttle open.
--
Steve W.
Scott
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hdidvj$ort$1...@aioe.org...
It's peoples dumb wives and stupid kids, they aren't going to admit they
ran the car into something, if cruise controls could do this they would
have been crashing retirees in Cadillacs into poles for 40 years.
Ed Pawlowski
"Scott" <sc...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>
> It's peoples dumb wives and stupid kids, they aren't going to admit they
> ran the car into something, if cruise controls could do this they would
> have been crashing retirees in Cadillacs into poles for 40 years.
I had an '83 Cutlass that would accelerate with the cruise control on, no
matter what speed you tried to set it at. Set it, cruise took over and held
for 15 to 30 seconds and then it would accelerate. It could be knocked off
by hitting the switch or brake pedal though. I'd have to say it is
"possible" that some cars could be taken on a ride, but you also have to use
your brain and shift to neutral or turn the ignition off.
At the time this was happening the car was 12+ years old, lots of miles and
a step away from the junk yard so I never tried to fix it.
Tim
And since no one is investigating, when exactly will that be?
hls
You really think no one is investigating this?
Mike Hunter
brakes if one looses throttle control.
But then again, how smart can one be to pay 20% to 30% more to drive home
any comparably equipped car, of the same size?
Toyota makes good stuff, by why would anyone pay that much extra to buy a
car that is demonstrably no better than average?
"Scott" <sc...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:hdi73j$181d$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
Mike Hunter
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:vfCdnW-jsPyF-WDX...@giganews.com...
Mike Hunter
exceeds the "set speed," the cruise control will automatically disengage by
design regardless of the throttle position.
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hdidvj$ort$1...@aioe.org...
Mike Hunter
Digital systems can not do that.
"Ed Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:acOdnVxOA9PBUWHX...@giganews.com...
PerfectReign
scratched out:
> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-toyota-recall8-2009nov08%2C0%
2C6120294.story
>
> Runaway Toyota cases ignored
>
> More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that
> their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming
> into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times
> review of federal records has found...
The one I heard on the radio - where the 911 caller died while slamming
at 120+ into another car - had the driver saying he'd tried to shift out
of gear and to turn off the car after the brakes stopped working, having
been burnt down by the engine.
Sad.
--
perfectreign
www.perfectreign.com || www.ecmplace.com
a turn signal is a statement, not a request
Steve W.
> No its not. Any time the speed of the vehicle can not sustain or it
> exceeds the "set speed," the cruise control will automatically disengage by
> design regardless of the throttle position.
>
BULL. I have seen them malfunction and open the throttle when the system
wasn't even ON. This is why it is called a FAILURE, because the system
is not designed to operate this way.
How about the VERY common problem of ABS activation on dry roads caused
by rust between the sensor and the hub on GM vehicles. When it happens
you can stand on the pedal and not even slow the vehicle down. I suppose
this cannot happen either, and yet there are numerous TSBs about it.
--
Steve W.
Steve W.
> That was back in the day when cruise was controlled by vacuum. Todays
> Digital systems can not do that.
They certainly can, that is why it is called a malfunction.
--
Steve W.
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> On Thu, 12 Nov 2009 18:26:03 -0500, Tim fired up the etcha-a-sketch and
> scratched out:
>
>> http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-fi-toyota-recall8-2009nov08%2C0%
> 2C6120294.story
>>
>> Runaway Toyota cases ignored
>>
>> More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that
>> their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases
>> slamming into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other
>> obstacles, a Times review of federal records has found...
>
> The one I heard on the radio - where the 911 caller died while slamming
> at 120+ into another car - had the driver saying he'd tried to shift out
> of gear and to turn off the car after the brakes stopped working, having
> been burnt down by the engine.
>
> Sad.
Here's the audio of that article:
(long version)
http://www.kfi640.com/cc-common/mediaplayer/player.html?redir=yes?
feed=&article=&mps=BillHandel.php&mid=http://a1135.g.akamai.net/
f/1135/18227/1h/cchannel.download.akamai.com/18227/podcast/LOSANGELES-CA/
KFI-AM/Handel0930097A.mp3?CPROG=PCAST&MARKET=LOSANGELES-
CA&NG_FORMAT&SITE_ID=616&STATION_ID=KFI-
AM&PCAST_AUTHOR=KFI_AM_640&PCAST_CAT=Arts_and_Entertainment&PCAST_TITLE=KFI_AM_640_BILL_HANDEL
Mike Hunter
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hdk8bf$lnd$2...@aioe.org...
Mike Hunter
"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hdk899$lnd$1...@aioe.org...
Mike Hunter
LOL
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
Mike Hunter
well.
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> I bet you believe the tooth fairly left that quarter under your pillow
> as well.
Mike:
First off, Outlook Express is so old. It doesn't even bottom post
correctly. C'mon, usenet is almost 30 years old, figure out how to
correctly quote, why don't you?
Second - WTF do you mean by that remark? That the story isn't true? That
the people didn't die? That an accelerator on a modern car can't get
stuck? That a car would need to have endless RPMs to get up to 120 mph?
Mike Hunter
car get up to120, before placing the car in neutral and turning off the
ignition.
In any event even if the throttle did stick, any properly functioning brake
system will still stop the car. If the driver actually did allow the car to
over speed, the rev limiter would have prevented it from self destructing,
that is why every engine today has a RPM limiter. Finally the Camry have
speed limiters less than120 MPH, depending on the tire type
Next time, I'll try to remember to bottom post, just for you
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
Scott
"Mike Hunter" <Mikehunt2@lycos,com> wrote in message
news:4afdac23$0$18027$ce5e...@news-radius.ptd.net...
> That would make a good story were it not for RPM limiters in todays cars
> LOL
I like the way you think. It's a sad story but had the driver made sure the
gas
pedal didn't have the floor mat shoved on it or under it, it wouldn't have
happend.
I went back and re-read the original post, then read the articles and such,
and basically the press and most everybody is confusing SUDDEN ACCELERATION
with fat-hoofed broads pushing the floor mats so far forward that the mat
gets stuck under on or under the gas pedal, resulting in the car not slowing
or
speeding up when they stomp the pedal hoping to free it.
So I am back to my original claim, most if not all of these accidents are
caused by
FAT, DUMB, LAZY, spouses and such not taking the time to make sure that
the GD gas pedal is free to operate,
Mike Hunter
fat old guy or a woman ;)
"Scott" <sc...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:hdkks0$2gid$1...@adenine.netfront.net...
Tim
Toyota just announce that it is recalling up to 4,000,000 vehicles
because of this.
Mike Hunter
cruise control was causing the car to accelerate. What I read was Toyota
was recalling up to 4,000,000 vehicles because of numeracy complaints, to
the NHTSA, that the rubber floor mats were jamming the accelerator. just
goes to shoe one can not believe everything one reads in the newspapers ;)
"Tim" <jmet...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:14a71$4aff0518$cef8ac46$34...@TEKSAVVY.COM...
jr92
> What a bunch of sleaze bags. I hope people will boycott Toyota over this.
>
>
> Runaway Toyota cases ignored
>
> More than 1,000 Toyota and Lexus owners have reported since 2001 that
> their vehicles suddenly accelerated on their own, in many cases slamming
> into trees, parked cars and brick walls, among other obstacles, a Times
> review of federal records has found...
John Q public wont do a damned thing about this, except continue to
buy more and more of these defective products.
John Q Public is usually about 30 years behind times when it comes to
knowledge about automobiles.
They just buy them based on "reputation".
Hell, the average comsumer, who has been spoon-fed lies by the likes
of Consumer Reports for years, still thinks Toyotas get better gas
mileage than similar GM products.
And are more reliable.
And more safe.
When in light of things happening today, none of the above are even
close to being true.
The sad thing about this is that the public will finally "discover"
all these things and stop buying Toyotas LONG after Toyota has
corrected these problems and resumed making a decent product.
jr92
>
> - Show quoted text -
Wow! If that is, indeed, true, it means the the number of vehicles
Toyota has recalled in the past few years is literally in the tens of
millions..
Doesn't sound like they are the "king of relibility" to me. Wonder who
CR will annoint that honor to next?
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> Sure a throttle can get stuck but one would have to be an idiot to let
> their car get up to120, before placing the car in neutral and turning
> off the ignition.
>
Well they *were* driving a Toyota...
> In any event even if the throttle did stick, any properly functioning
> brake system will still stop the car.
Apparently not. If you listened to the audio, someone mentioned that the
brakes were non functional.
> If the driver actually did allow
> the car to over speed, the rev limiter would have prevented it from self
> destructing, that is why every engine today has a RPM limiter.
> Finally
> the Camry have speed limiters less than120 MPH, depending on the tire
> type
>
I don't get that part. Even if I accelerate slowly - say at 1500 rpm -
I'll still accelerate and would eventually reach 120MPH.
I may be burning fuel at a non-economical rate, but I'd be going fast.
> Next time, I'll try to remember to bottom post, just for you
Thank you - the entire usenet community would appreciate it.
hls
"jr92" <coach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9bf560cc-92b8-4621-96d4-
Doesn't sound like they are the "king of relibility" to me. Wonder who
CR will annoint that honor to next?
*****
Ford just recalled a huge number as well.. 4.5 million?
Reliability is quite different from safety. GM dodged recalls for years on
reliability grounds, but the law and its consequences put the onus on
manufacturers to deal with perceived safety issues.
Tom
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:eY-dnYJmWOS9h53W...@giganews.com...
Toyota is recalling 4 million to fix the accelerator pedal. This makes them
the king of recalls the past few years, but this group finds ways to make it
a negative on ford and GM. Keep supporting foreign companys make ours
look bad
no matter what it is. Tell me would you like to live in the US and Canada
or Japan Korea or China, if the latter, don't let the door hit you in the
ass.
Tom
"hls" <h...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:eY-dnYJmWOS9h53W...@giganews.com...
>
> manufacturers to deal with perceived safety issues. check this link
http://www.leftlanenews.com/toyota-to-fix-accelerators-after-largest-ever-us-recall.html
Ed Pawlowski
"Tom" <t...@comcast.net> wrote in message >
> Toyota is recalling 4 million to fix the accelerator pedal. This makes
> them the king of recalls the past few years, but this group finds ways to
> make it a negative on ford and GM.
Not a recall, at least not yet
"According to the report, it is likely that Toyota will voluntarily repair
or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4 million vehicles in the
US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this solution as they do not
believe that the vehicles' pedals are defective - and thus do no warrant an
official recallAccording to the report, it is likely that Toyota will
voluntarily repair or replace the accelerators out of approximately 4
million vehicles in the US. The report suggests that Toyota preferred this
solution as they do not believe that the vehicles' pedals are defective -
and thus do no warrant an official recall"
Mike Hunter
Toyota can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM. At 1,500 they will be lucky to reach
20 MPH. Even at 4,000 RPM they are only doing around 60 MPH LOL
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
hls
It isnt a recall yet. There is no general agreement yet that the
accelerator is the problem,
if there is a problem.
The Ford recall was for 3.7 million cars, and may be expaneded by another 6
million, due
to the switches on the cruise controls which have been linked with fires
http://www.fordfires.com/
There IS a big difference between reliability and safety issues. GM got
away with really
shit for years and didnt have to fix the issues because they were
reliability and quality
issues, not safety issues.
Toyota hires a bunch if US citizens just like Ford, GM and Chrysler do. If
I want a door
to hit me in the ass, I will be the one to decide which cheek ;>)
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> Apparently you do not know much abort gear ratios, if you think that any
> Toyota can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM. At 1,500 they will be lucky to
> reach 20 MPH. Even at 4,000 RPM they are only doing around 60 MPH
> LOL
Apparently I don't.
I would think that - given constant acceleration - a car could
theoretically reach any speed (unless the fuel is shut off after a
certian value).
On a flat area, if I drive my Avalanche - or my wife's Vue - at 1500 rpm,
I'll be starting out slow, but eventually reaching some fast speed. I
won't be doing it in 3.9 seconds, but I'll get there.
Same principle applies to Ion engines being used by some space craft.
jr92
> "jr92" <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
You mean, like throttles sticking open on cars, as opposed to, say a
recall for a tire pressure monitor that has malfunctioned???????
It appears to me that Toyota is "dodging" recalls, safety or
otherwise. They just are having so many problems they cant dodge them
all.
And, anyway,
Based on the news over the past few months, one can assume that
Toyotas are neither reliable or safe anymore to begin with.
hls
And, anyway,
****************
No, that is not what I mean at all. Over the years, GM has had a long
series
of issues that eventually led to failures or expensive repairs. It was
almost as
if the failures were engineered into the vehicle.
These included:
(1) failures in the Metric transmissions
(2) failures in the 3800 generation II engine related to the plastic plenum
(3) failures in the ECS 100 alternator series
(4) failures (corrosion) caused by brazing body panels together near the
rear window
such that water coursed down an area with an intentional galvanic
corrosion cell
(5) failures of the rear disc brake systems to operate properly (bad design)
(6) failures of engine gaskets, attributed to DexCool, but really a mixture
of bad
mating surface design and inferior gasket material
(7) block cracks in the Iron Duke four cylinder engine series
(8) engine failures in the silicon/iron four cylinder engine blocks
(inadequate development)
(9) short run failures in air conditioner evaporators, essentially a
corrosion problem in the
aluminum evaporator system.
and others.
Since these were not safety issues, in general, GM normally could dodge
repairs if these
junky systems lasted through the rather short warranty periods.
Toyota has had some good cars, and they have also had some problems;namely,
- the sludging in certain series of engines, presumably caused by PCV
system deficiencies.
and,
- the odd shifting characteristics of one of their later transmission series
(solved by
programming)
There were reportedly issues in earlier models, but I never owned one of
them and dont
have any friends who, owning them, had problems with them.
I owned GM cars for years, starting in the 70's, and every one of them gave
me problems
of some sort or the other...expensive problems, not just nagging little
bitchy problems.
The claim that there is something seriously wrong with Toyota's accelerator
system is
very troubling. I try not to make judgements until the facts are in, and I
am not sure that
we know what is happening here.
You may have read about a similar situation involving the Audi 5000, which
was claimed
to accelerate wildly without provocation. Some people were, IIRC, killed.
But it turned
out that there was never a problem with the car. (A similar problem occured
3-4 years ago
when a friend drove her Cadillac through the front of her house, "driving
for her life". The
Caddy didnt do it...she had her foot on the wrong pedal.)
Yes, I have no great love for GM right now. IF they start building real
quality...quality that
will last....I will consider buying one. But not yet.
Ford has played its cards considerably smarter than GM. And under Mullaly,
Ford has
received commendations for quality and durability. Ford also had the
plastic plenum problems,
but worked with the customer to fix it, rather than dodging it like GM did.
Ford also has
had some electrical problems which resulted in fires, but they have
identified it, and recalled.
You buy what you want, and so will I.
hls
John Q public wont do a damned thing about this, except continue to
buy more and more of these defective products.
John Q Public is usually about 30 years behind times when it comes to
knowledge about automobiles.
They just buy them based on "reputation".
Hell, the average comsumer, who has been spoon-fed lies by the likes
of Consumer Reports for years, still thinks Toyotas get better gas
mileage than similar GM products.
And are more reliable.
And more safe.
***********
We received a notification from Toyota just this morning regarding this
issue.
It is not a recall, at this point.
This notification deals with the perceived problem, which they have
identified
as aftermarket or improper floor mats which can slide and interfere with the
accelerator pedal. That is ALL at this time.
Mike Hunter
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> Like I said, apparently you do not know much abort gear ratios, if you
> think that any Toyota can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM.
Okay, mister top-poster, pleas educate me.
Mike Hunter
makes you believe I would do so for free in a NG? Do a search for the
information you seek, WBMA.
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
PerfectReign
etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
> I am paid handsomely when asked to teach an engineering 101 class, what
> makes you believe I would do so for free in a NG?
Um, because you're the one insisting on bringing it up.
if you have a point, please do prove it or stfu
> Do a search for the
> information you seek, WBMA.
wbma?
world beard and mustache association?
wideband monopole antenna?
Mike Hunter
MPH at 1,500 RPM, not me. Obviously you do not want to learn. You
apparently prefer to continue to believe what you chose to believe instead.
You are of course free to do what ever you chose, however.
"PerfectReign" <theperf...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.11...@ecmplace.com...
Dave
> etcha-a-sketch and scratched out:
>
>> Apparently you do not know much abort gear ratios, if you think that any
>> Toyota can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM. At 1,500 they will be lucky to
>> reach 20 MPH. Even at 4,000 RPM they are only doing around 60 MPH
>> LOL
>
> Apparently I don't.
>
> I would think that - given constant acceleration - a car could
> theoretically reach any speed (unless the fuel is shut off after a
> certian value).
>
> On a flat area, if I drive my Avalanche - or my wife's Vue - at 1500 rpm,
> I'll be starting out slow, but eventually reaching some fast speed. I
> won't be doing it in 3.9 seconds, but I'll get there.
>
> Same principle applies to Ion engines being used by some space craft.
>
Can't say this often, but Mikey is definitely correct on this one. If your
Avalanche has a tach you can easily test your theory.
Rodan
You (PerfectReign) are uninformed if you believe any Toyota
can do 120 MPH at 1,500 RPM.
___________________________________________________________________
PerfectReign's Toyota could theoretically go 120 mph at 1500 rpm.
All he needs is a final drive axle gear ratio of about 1.10 and an engine
that puts out 200 horsepower at a 1500 rpm fast idle.
Rodan.
____________________________________________________________________