GM to pay in coolant repair cases
Jim Higgins
http://tinyurl.com/yoxklt
WASHINGTON -- General Motors Corp. has agreed to pay as much as $800
each to millions of customers to settle lawsuits that it sold about 35
million vehicles with faulty coolant and engine parts.
The move announced by lawyers Wednesday would close one of the largest
product-liability lawsuits faced by a U.S. automaker. GM declined to say
how much it expected the settlement to cost, but the agreement gives
payments to customers even if they bought the vehicles used.
The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced
in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks
between 1995 and 2004. About 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking
class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of
problems in V6 engines linked to Dex-Cool.
Thousands of customers have complained of problems ranging from small
coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents
show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests linked to
Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected engines, and considered
recalls for some models.
Under the settlement approved by a California judge last week, people
who paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs on 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8- or 4.3-liter
V6 engines within seven years or 150,000 miles are eligible for some
payment from GM. Repairs made within the first five years are eligible
for up to $400, while sixth-year repairs could receive $100 and
seventh-year repairs $50.
If the damage went beyond the engine's cooling systems -- as many
customers claimed -- GM is to reimburse them up to $800. The company
will also allow owners who made multiple repairs to apply for multiple
repayments.
GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said the company settled the case because the
lawsuits were "time consuming and expensive." He said GM was unable to
estimate how many consumers might apply for payments.
As part of the settlement, GM is to pay $18 million in lawyers' fees and
expenses. The settlement covers 49 states, excluding Missouri, which has
an identical settlement authorized by a different court.
Owners and customers who have paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs have
until Oct. 27 to submit a claim. Further details of the settlement and
instructions for applying for payments are available at
www.dexcoolsettlement.com.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
Gosi
> GM to pay in coolant repair caseshttp://tinyurl.com/yoxklt
This is very interesting.
Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
Amazing !
I am sure a lot of experts knew this practice was wrong for a long
time.
Either GM has no experts or they knew what they were doing and
intentionally made the cars to be with less lifetime so they would
need to be replaced sooner.
It is similar to what Ford did when he sent people to investigate what
parts in the cars being retired were still good so they could use
cheaper parts.
This was the final straw as I am concerned.
I thought that GM was trying to make good cars but were just sloppy in
management but it is obvious they do not care about their customers at
all and are just like the medicine men in the past trying to sell
anything as long as they can find anyone with money and sell them
false hope.
Mike Y
Mike hunt
sludge problem that pushed off the solution to the problem with their
extended ten year warranty. It is hard for the shark lawyers to pursue a
class action when the company offers a warranty for all claims.
In both cases the manufacturer gets off the hook, the lawyers reap the
rewards and the buyers get screwed ;)
"Jim Higgins" <gordi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13un2os...@corp.supernews.com...
Mike Marlow
"Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:948f8a6d-9dc4-4862...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> This is very interesting.
> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
> Amazing !
Why are you amazed? You were not aware of the intake gasket issues for the
past 15 years?
> I am sure a lot of experts knew this practice was wrong for a long
> time.
> Either GM has no experts or they knew what they were doing and
> intentionally made the cars to be with less lifetime so they would
> need to be replaced sooner.
Or they simply elected to use inferior parts with the expectation that
people would just fix them, and it would never come back to haunt them.
Save on the manufacturing costs. Would have nothing at all to do with
building them so that they would have to be replaced sooner.
> This was the final straw as I am concerned.
Why? You needed a class action decision to convince you of the problems
that had been identified over a decade ago, and verified by tens of
thousands of cars? Why should this decision have any effect on your opinion
of GM?
> I thought that GM was trying to make good cars but were just sloppy in
> management but it is obvious they do not care about their customers at
> all and are just like the medicine men in the past trying to sell
> anything as long as they can find anyone with money and sell them
> false hope.
If it took you this long to realize that, then your powers of observation
are sorely lacking. Are you related to Mike Hunt?
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Gosi
> Are you related to Mike Hunt?
He is my senile old grandfather
HLS
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:4874f$47ebba90$6215aa97$20...@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:948f8a6d-9dc4-4862...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> This is very interesting.
>> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
>> Amazing !
>
> Why are you amazed? You were not aware of the intake gasket issues for
> the past 15 years?
The link indicates that the reimbursements are about $400 up through the 5th
year
of the car's life, drop to $100 in the 6th year, and $50 in the 7th year.
So, IMO,
they are still dodging a substantial portion of the blame.
As in many other cases, GM knew they were producing crap, and continued to
do
it without conscience. And dumb old us continued to buy said crap.
Steve W.
> "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:948f8a6d-9dc4-4862...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
>> This is very interesting.
>> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
>> Amazing !
>
> Why are you amazed? You were not aware of the intake gasket issues for the
> past 15 years?
You mean the minor fact that it was a change in the gasket material
mandated by federal laws on asbestos that caused the entire problem for
the auto industry.
>
>> I am sure a lot of experts knew this practice was wrong for a long
>> time.
>
>> Either GM has no experts or they knew what they were doing and
>> intentionally made the cars to be with less lifetime so they would
>> need to be replaced sooner.
>
> Or they simply elected to use inferior parts with the expectation that
> people would just fix them, and it would never come back to haunt them.
> Save on the manufacturing costs. Would have nothing at all to do with
> building them so that they would have to be replaced sooner.
Or they had NO choice in the matter and followed the law.
>
>
>> This was the final straw as I am concerned.
>
> Why? You needed a class action decision to convince you of the problems
> that had been identified over a decade ago, and verified by tens of
> thousands of cars? Why should this decision have any effect on your opinion
> of GM?
Tens of thousands of cars out of tens of MILLIONS of cars running Dex-Cool.
>
>> I thought that GM was trying to make good cars but were just sloppy in
>> management but it is obvious they do not care about their customers at
>> all and are just like the medicine men in the past trying to sell
>> anything as long as they can find anyone with money and sell them
>> false hope.
>
> If it took you this long to realize that, then your powers of observation
> are sorely lacking. Are you related to Mike Hunt?
>
The real problem is NOT the Dex-Cool. Never has been. If it was the
coolant that was a problem why don't ALL the vehicles using it show
problems? The problem is and always has been a result of the gaskets
going bad. That is why GM started using a redesigned gasket that
eliminates the problem.
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!
HLS
"Steve W." <csr6...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> The real problem is NOT the Dex-Cool. Never has been. If it was the
> coolant that was a problem why don't ALL the vehicles using it show
> problems? The problem is and always has been a result of the gaskets going
> bad. That is why GM started using a redesigned gasket that eliminates the
> problem.
I agree, Steve..I dont think the DexCool destroyed gaskets either, although
I dont think it is the best coolant that could have been used, with respect
to
engine corrosion.
There was a problem with the gaskets. Other motor companies did not seem
to have this level of problems, and that indicates to me that it was
something
more than just the problem with gasket changes. The mechanical aspects of
those engines' mating surfaces and assembly have been suspected.
Whatever the factors, GM has some responsibility in the matter.
Mike hunt
was the (the gaskets) that was a problem why don't ALL the vehicles using
(the gaskets) show problems? That is why (the gasket manufactures)
started using (the proper materials in the) gasket that eliminate(d) the
problem." ;)
"Steve W." <csr6...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fsghpo$r3d$1...@aioe.org...
Mike Marlow
"HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:IGPGj.2772$p24....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
Oh - I agree. To top that - how are most of the previous owners of those
cars, who paid for repairs, or performed them themselves, going to document
those repairs now? GM will get out of this pretty light.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
>> "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:948f8a6d-9dc4-4862...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> This is very interesting.
>>> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
>>> Amazing !
>>
>> Why are you amazed? You were not aware of the intake gasket issues for
>> the past 15 years?
>
> You mean the minor fact that it was a change in the gasket material
> mandated by federal laws on asbestos that caused the entire problem for
> the auto industry.
Oh no Steve - you're starting to sound like Mike Hunt. This argument has
been beaten to death.
>
>>
>>> I am sure a lot of experts knew this practice was wrong for a long
>>> time.
>>
>>> Either GM has no experts or they knew what they were doing and
>>> intentionally made the cars to be with less lifetime so they would
>>> need to be replaced sooner.
>>
>> Or they simply elected to use inferior parts with the expectation that
>> people would just fix them, and it would never come back to haunt them.
>> Save on the manufacturing costs. Would have nothing at all to do with
>> building them so that they would have to be replaced sooner.
>
> Or they had NO choice in the matter and followed the law.
Why didn't every other manufacturer have the same continuing problems for
over 10 years?
>
>>
>>
>>> This was the final straw as I am concerned.
>>
>> Why? You needed a class action decision to convince you of the problems
>> that had been identified over a decade ago, and verified by tens of
>> thousands of cars? Why should this decision have any effect on your
>> opinion of GM?
>
> Tens of thousands of cars out of tens of MILLIONS of cars running
> Dex-Cool.
Tens of thousands was almost certainly low. How about nearly every 3.1 and
3.4 produced during that time period.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
"Mike hunt" <mikeh...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:PIydnWTYDrnxfXba...@ptd.net...
> "The real problem is NOT the (the gaskets.) Dex-Cool. Never has been. If
> it was the (the gaskets) that was a problem why don't ALL the vehicles
> using (the gaskets) show problems? That is why (the gasket
> manufactures) started using (the proper materials in the) gasket that
> eliminate(d) the problem." ;)
>
No one but you have ever suggested it was the gasket that was the fault. It
was the gasket that failed, causing the problems. That was a GM design
issue. Exactly what the design flaw or flaws were, I don't really know.
The point remains that GM stood alone in the line up of manufacturers that
had such a long running design, complete with its known problems.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Gosi
> "HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
>
> news:IGPGj.2772$p24....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> >news:4874f$47ebba90$6215aa97$20...@ALLTEL.NET...
>
> >> "Gosi" <gos...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:948f8a6d-9dc4-4862...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> This is very interesting.
> >>> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
> >>> Amazing !
>
> >> Why are you amazed? You were not aware of the intake gasket issues for
> >> the past 15 years?
>
> > The link indicates that the reimbursements are about $400 up through the
> > 5th year
> > of the car's life, drop to $100 in the 6th year, and $50 in the 7th year.
> > So, IMO,
> > they are still dodging a substantial portion of the blame.
>
> > As in many other cases, GM knew they were producing crap, and continued to
> > do
> > it without conscience. And dumb old us continued to buy said crap.
>
> Oh - I agree. To top that - how are most of the previous owners of those
> cars, who paid for repairs, or performed them themselves, going to document
> those repairs now? GM will get out of this pretty light.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
GM will not get out of this lightly.
This is one more nail in their coffin.
The money part of this is nothing compared to the loss of reliability
and show how low quality they have been willing to put on their
products.
The goodwill of GM is gone and the badwill is growing.
Getting goodwill is something you earn through trust.
When you do not have goodwill and you do not have trust it is only a
question of time before you can close the doors.
Mike Marlow
> GM will not get out of this lightly.
> This is one more nail in their coffin.
> The money part of this is nothing compared to the loss of reliability
> and show how low quality they have been willing to put on their
> products.
> The goodwill of GM is gone and the badwill is growing.
> Getting goodwill is something you earn through trust.
> When you do not have goodwill and you do not have trust it is only a
> question of time before you can close the doors.
Unfortunately, the gasket debacle is not the end of the story for GM. New
Impala's have problems consuming anti-freeze. You can talk to a dealer
mechanic and he'll tell you they have no idea where the coolant is going.
Right after that, he'll tell you they're not aware of any gurgling problems
with the Impala that accompany the car not being able to throw heat while
sitting still. Throws heat just fine while it's going down the road, but
throws cold air if it's not moving. Nope - no problem there. This is
exactly the kind of thing that took me from a 30 plus year GM bigot, and
place 2 Hyundai's and a Mitsubishi in my driveway these days.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
80 Knight
Just curious, but do you have any links about this problem with Impala's?
You're speaking of the 2007+ model, right? I'm not being sarcastic (its a
first for me, I know), I just haven't heard anything about this. 90% of our
Police force use the brand new Impala's, and we build them here too, so I
should've read about it by now.
Mike Marlow
"80 Knight" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:tf2dnRnYuI7Ym3Ha...@giganews.com...
> Just curious, but do you have any links about this problem with Impala's?
> You're speaking of the 2007+ model, right? I'm not being sarcastic (its a
> first for me, I know), I just haven't heard anything about this. 90% of
> our Police force use the brand new Impala's, and we build them here too,
> so I should've read about it by now.
>
I wish I did have one, but I don't. You're right though - lots of police
depts use them so it would seem this problem would have gained more
attention by now.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
80 Knight
I'll keep looking. If I find anything, I'll post it.
aarcuda69062
"HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote:
> "Steve W." <csr6...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > The real problem is NOT the Dex-Cool. Never has been. If it was the
> > coolant that was a problem why don't ALL the vehicles using it show
> > problems? The problem is and always has been a result of the gaskets going
> > bad. That is why GM started using a redesigned gasket that eliminates the
> > problem.
>
> I agree, Steve..I dont think the DexCool destroyed gaskets either, although
> I dont think it is the best coolant that could have been used, with respect
> to
> engine corrosion.
But these engines aren't suffering from corrosion problems until the
gaskets fail. And it's not so much corrosion problems after the gaskets
fail, it's the coolant oxidizing, clumping/coagulating causing problems
like plugged heater cores.
> There was a problem with the gaskets. Other motor companies did not seem
> to have this level of problems, and that indicates to me that it was
> something
> more than just the problem with gasket changes.
Who else uses the gasket design like GM uses on their V engines?
Bubba Obama
mile on it from a dealer who leased it as a rental, so I am not really the
original owner. I had the intake replaced at about 80k miles. Currently have
over 140k miles on it. My question is since I am the second owner am I
eligible for the refund? Or must I be the original owner?
Bubba Obama
"HLS" <nos...@nospam.nix> wrote in message
news:IGPGj.2772$p24....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
>
that it has been a great dependable nice riding car that is holding great
with over 140k miles. My interior and body and paint is in excellent
condition except for some door dings. Engine still nice and tight too.
Edwin Pawlowski
"Bubba Obama" <Bubba3...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:47ec7596$0$17438$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
Newsgroups are the best place to ask legal questions. Thank you for your
interest and we will be contacting you shortly.
If you also need financial planning and want to make out your will, include
that information also. We're here to help.
Mike Marlow
> I disagree, even though I replaced my gasket at about 80k miles other than
> that it has been a great dependable nice riding car that is holding great
> with over 140k miles. My interior and body and paint is in excellent
> condition except for some door dings. Engine still nice and tight too.
That would be quite characteristic of GM vehicles. They are notoriously
good to drive for 200,000 miles with only routine oil changes, and care not
to let them overheat. The body does hold up well on them. I do not think
they produce junk at all. Your experience is not unique, but it's also not
completely the norm either. Many of the 60 degree engines have required
gaskets two or three times over their lives. Some of that may be due to
gasket material, and some to other design issues.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Y
>
> That would be quite characteristic of GM vehicles. They are notoriously
> good to drive for 200,000 miles with only routine oil changes, and care
not
> to let them overheat. The body does hold up well on them. I do not think
> they produce junk at all. Your experience is not unique, but it's also
not
> completely the norm either. Many of the 60 degree engines have required
> gaskets two or three times over their lives. Some of that may be due to
> gasket material, and some to other design issues.
>
When my 95 GP cracked the gasket, I thought it was toast. But my
local mechanic said it might be able to salvage it. He repaired it, and
run 3 oil changes in one day through it with flushing everything. (He
used old oil except for the last.) The car was great when I got it
back.
Anyway, I had asked him if it was worth it, mileage and all, and if the
problem was something I should worry about again. He told me when
he first started doing those repairs, they would repeat. Usually at less
mileage each time. Then he started getting some aftermarket gasket
that I thought he said had more and different metal, but I may be mistaken
on that. Anyway, he said since he started using the aftermarket gasket,
he hasn't had a single repair come back to be done again.
Mike Marlow
"Mike Y" <j...@user.com> wrote in message news:C35Hj.1$Xm...@newsfe02.lga...
>
> When my 95 GP cracked the gasket, I thought it was toast. But my
> local mechanic said it might be able to salvage it. He repaired it, and
> run 3 oil changes in one day through it with flushing everything. (He
> used old oil except for the last.) The car was great when I got it
> back.
>
> Anyway, I had asked him if it was worth it, mileage and all, and if the
> problem was something I should worry about again. He told me when
> he first started doing those repairs, they would repeat. Usually at less
> mileage each time. Then he started getting some aftermarket gasket
> that I thought he said had more and different metal, but I may be mistaken
> on that. Anyway, he said since he started using the aftermarket gasket,
> he hasn't had a single repair come back to be done again.
>
>
That's pretty much the way it went Mike. For the first several years, both
OEM and after market gaskets would fail after the repairs had been
performed. With the evolution of the gaskets, this got better over time,
but it took a very long time for really improved gaskets to hit the street.
Today's gaskets are far better than what used to be available, but even at
that, the after market gaskets are ahead of what GM offers, in terms of
reliability. Using new bolts has improved the reliability of the repair
also, pointing to movement issues between the parts, that can't simply be
laid at the feet of the gaskets.
The shame of it all in my opinion, is that I believe all of the 3.X L
engines are great engines, notwithstanding the gasket issues (and the plenum
issues in the 3.8L). The 3.1L does suffer from piston slap on cold starts,
and that's not comforting, but those engines seem to be quite unaffected by
it. If GM had not been so much in denial about the gasket issues, and had
tackled that issue head on, my opinions today would be much different.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
HLS
"aarcuda69062" <none...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:nonelson-6E8F51...@news.chi.sbcglobal.net...
>
> But these engines aren't suffering from corrosion problems until the
> gaskets fail. And it's not so much corrosion problems after the gaskets
> fail, it's the coolant oxidizing, clumping/coagulating causing problems
> like plugged heater cores.
That is part of the overall process, Aarcuda. Aluminum is not so well
protected
by this sort of technology. Corrosion of iron can lead to the formation of
insoluble
organic acid "soaps" that are slimy, shoeleather gunks. And it doesnt take
much
corrosion to set off this situation.
> Who else uses the gasket design like GM uses on their V engines?
I dont know who else does. Apparently few to none, since other companies
did
not have the problems GM did, it seems. The lack of asbestos in those
gaskets was
claimed to be the main factor for their failure, but of course Ford and
Chrysler would
have been bound by the same laws. So, that is not the best excuse. The
silicone
beads are more likely the cause, whether it happens by product quality or
installation
or even mechanical design. I have opened "good", relatively low mileage,
engines and have found those silicon prepped areas to be on the point of
failure. I contacted the
aftermarket gasket manufacturers about this several years ago, and Felpro
did answer that they knew of the problem and were working on gaskets to
solve it. I believe, in fact,
they came out with the improved gaskets which mitigated the problem.
Whether this was planned obsolescence, bad engineering and materials
selection, or
just an unlucky star for GM, one expects better from any prime American
company.
Buy a Yugo, you get a Yugo.
GM has documentably a long history of allowing problems to continue in their
line of
cars. These are problems or defects they KNOW about, but choose not to do
anything
about. We have been over them before...You know what they are.
HLS
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:Yt3Hj.2914$p24....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
If he can prove that he had the repairs performed, then he would be the
person
who would be reimbursed, as I read the link. Maybe I am wrong.
But since that is a 1997 car, the time to failure would determine whether he
got enough money back to worry with, if any at all.
Mike hunt
VW and Honda etc. owners that had a gasket problems, for years after
asbestos was banded, if they think GM was the only manufacturer to suffer
losses, because the gasket manufacture failed to meet the vehicle
manufacturers design specs for the gaskets they made for ALL of those afore
mentioned vehicle manufactures.
You might want to ask the insurance companies, for those gasket
manufactured, why they paid 80% of costs for those losses if it was a GM
"bad gasket design" that was the fault L
OL
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:1ebec$47ebf98d$6215aa97$24...@ALLTEL.NET...
Mike hunt
you were buying the crap that they were both selling not too long ago as
well LOL
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:93f8e$47ebf96f$6215aa97$84...@ALLTEL.NET...
Mike hunt
and government fleet because the generally run up higher mileage in a much
shorter time period. Large cooperate and government fleet receive much
better service and things that can go wrong show up in those vehicles
sooner.
Our fleet service business, that serviced thousands of fleet vehicles, was
one of the first to discoverer problems with gaskets after asbestos was
banded as well as one of the first to discover sludge accumulation it Toyota
V6 engines that were serviced to Toyota standards. Our higher than average
instances of warranty claims was noticed early on by the manufacturers
"Mike Marlow" <mmarlo...@alltel.net> wrote in message
news:93c30$47ec096e$6215aa97$45...@ALLTEL.NET...
Jan
for coolant leak. Is this the same thing you guys have been posting
about?
coach...@hotmail.com
> On Mar 27, 11:55 am, Jim Higgins <gordian...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > GM to pay in coolant repair caseshttp://tinyurl.com/yoxklt
>
> > WASHINGTON -- General Motors Corp. has agreed to pay as much as $800
> > each to millions of customers to settle lawsuits that it sold about 35
> > million vehicles with faulty coolant and engine parts.
>
> > The move announced by lawyers Wednesday would close one of the largest
> > product-liability lawsuits faced by a U.S. automaker. GM declined to say
> > how much it expected the settlement to cost, but the agreement gives
> > payments to customers even if they bought the vehicles used.
>
> > The suits stem from GM's use of Dex-Cool, a coolant it first introduced
> > in its vehicles in 1995 and sold in more than 35 million cars and trucks
> > between 1995 and 2004. About 14 federal and state lawsuits seeking
> > class-action status have been filed against GM over a variety of
> > problems in V6 engines linked to Dex-Cool.
>
> > Thousands of customers have complained of problems ranging from small
> > coolant leaks to complete radiator and engine failure. Court documents
> > show that GM has received tens of thousands of repair requests linked to
> > Dex-Cool and engine gaskets in the affected engines, and considered
> > recalls for some models.
>
> > Under the settlement approved by a California judge last week, people
> > who paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs on 3.1-, 3.4-, 3.8- or 4.3-liter
> > V6 engines within seven years or 150,000 miles are eligible for some
> > payment from GM. Repairs made within the first five years are eligible
> > for up to $400, while sixth-year repairs could receive $100 and
> > seventh-year repairs $50.
>
> > If the damage went beyond the engine's cooling systems -- as many
> > customers claimed -- GM is to reimburse them up to $800. The company
> > will also allow owners who made multiple repairs to apply for multiple
> > repayments.
>
> > GM spokesman Tom Wilkinson said the company settled the case because the
> > lawsuits were "time consuming and expensive." He said GM was unable to
> > estimate how many consumers might apply for payments.
>
> > As part of the settlement, GM is to pay $18 million in lawyers' fees and
> > expenses. The settlement covers 49 states, excluding Missouri, which has
> > an identical settlement authorized by a different court.
>
> > Owners and customers who have paid for Dex-Cool-related repairs have
> > until Oct. 27 to submit a claim. Further details of the settlement and
> > instructions for applying for payments are available atwww.dexcoolsettlement.com.
>
> > --
> > Civis Romanus Sum
>
> This is very interesting.
>
For you I am sure it is.
Just imagine all those TENS OF MILLIONS of GM product out there on
the road today, just waiting to implode.
Hell, all you Toyota guys that feel the need to come over to the GM
group must be getting your rocks off big time.
Just checked my four Gm products in my driveway (don't need but two of
them, the other two are for fun), and I feel the upmost confidence
that thay will all do what they are supposed to do when I need (or
want) them to do.
I think that the millions of GM products on the road today, and those
which will be be sold tomorrow will be allright.
As far as the Toyota lovers go:
You guys are the freaking absolute KINGS, when it comes to recalls.
Get your own house in order first.
Stay in your own groups until then.
> Looks like GM sent out a time bomb with every car for 10 years !
>
As I stated earlier, I have four "time bombs" in my driveway right
now. Please pray for me in the event that I may need something
reliable in the case of an emergency.
Of course, I guess it could be worse.
I could own a Toyota, the God-ordainded super, never failing, perfect
automobile, that nowdays, consistantly recalls more vechicles than it
sells.
But that is ok, as, what is the term that is used??? Oh, yeah, they do
take care of their problems.
> Amazing !
>
Get a grip!
Go back to your Toyota group; stop coming over here bashing the GM
product, which is supeiror to the crap you produce, and looks a
helluva lot better, to boot.
And while your at it, please,
Take a hike!
> I am sure a lot of experts knew this practice was wrong for a long
> time.
>
> Either GM has no experts or they knew what they were doing and
> intentionally made the cars to be with less lifetime so they would
> need to be replaced sooner.
>
> It is similar to what Ford did when he sent people to investigate what
> parts in the cars being retired were still good so they could use
> cheaper parts.
>
> This was the final straw as I am concerned.
>
> I thought that GM was trying to make good cars but were just sloppy in
> management but it is obvious they do not care about their customers at
> all and are just like the medicine men in the past trying to sell
> anything as long as they can find anyone with money and sell them
> false hope.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
HLS
<coach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:ef341342-dd1d-4f92-b66e-
Stay in your own groups until then.
I dont believe you direct the traffic here, coachrose ;>)
Mike Marlow
> What color I the sky in you world? Ask any of the Toyota, Ford,
> Chrysler, VW and Honda etc. owners that had a gasket problems, for years
> after asbestos was banded, if they think GM was the only manufacturer to
> suffer losses, because the gasket manufacture failed to meet the vehicle
> manufacturers design specs for the gaskets they made for ALL of those
> afore mentioned vehicle manufactures.
>
>
>
> You might want to ask the insurance companies, for those gasket
> manufactured, why they paid 80% of costs for those losses if it was a GM
> "bad gasket design" that was the fault L
>
Ah - more of Mike's irrelevant distractions. So Mike - how long did those
gasket problems persist for Toyota, For, Chrysler, VW and Honda? It's no
small wonder you stay stuck in the mode of repeating the same mantra over
and over again - you really do fail to grasp the points being made by other
posters.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike Marlow
"Jan" <J...@mykitties.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.22572471c...@news.telus.net...
> I just got informed by my dealer today that my 08 G5 GT is under recall
> for coolant leak. Is this the same thing you guys have been posting
> about?
It might be. Keep us informed about the recall as you follow up with your
dealer. I will find it very encouraging if GM is handling this issue more
appropriately than they did the intake gasket fiasco. It would certainly
restore some confidence for me.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Mike
<coach...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ef341342-dd1d-4f92...@m71g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> Amazing !
>
Get a grip!
Take a hike!
Time to take your meds, coachrose. Are you related to Mike Hunt ?
Jim Higgins
Thus spaketh the Traffic Director.
--
Civis Romanus Sum
GlassVial
settlement.
The site (and this article) say for repairs done within (x) many years
of vehicle delivery, but it also says vehicles covered are 1995-2003.
So, say I have a 96, just had repairs done last year, I'm SOL? If so,
this isn't much of a settlement for those that still drive older
vehicles yet only recently had the death-cool issue, not to mention
when did (how long did) the "fixed" gaskets (take to) come to market?
Someone please clarify for me, thanks :)
-GV
Edwin Pawlowski
"GlassVial" <glas...@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ag1tu3t7kn297rlq4...@4ax.com...
> Ok, maybe it's the cold meds talking, but I'm really confused by this
> settlement.
>
> The site (and this article) say for repairs done within (x) many years
> of vehicle delivery, but it also says vehicles covered are 1995-2003.
> So, say I have a 96, just had repairs done last year, I'm SOL? If so,
> this isn't much of a settlement for those that still drive older
> vehicles yet only recently had the death-cool issue, not to mention
> when did (how long did) the "fixed" gaskets (take to) come to market?
>
> Someone please clarify for me, thanks :)
>
> -GV
If you took delivery in 96 and had repairs done in say, 99, you'd get a
larger portion that your same 96 model after twelve years of use.
Eventually, every part on that car will fail, it is just a matter of time,
be it 12 months, 12 years, or 120 years. Don't expect to be covered
forever. Dex cool aside, gaskets do fail from the constant heating and
cooling of years of use.
Jan
mmarlo...@alltel.net says...
GlassVial
>larger portion that your same 96 model after twelve years of use.
>Eventually, every part on that car will fail, it is just a matter of time,
>be it 12 months, 12 years, or 120 years. Don't expect to be covered
>forever. Dex cool aside, gaskets do fail from the constant heating and
>cooling of years of use.
I guess my point is (in the example) that if it took longer than 7
years for the problem to manifest itself (albeit it STILL happened)
and the car still had under 150k by that time...even though you
shelled out big bucks to get it fixed (because the car was still
overall solid) you're SOL, right? Still doesn't seem fair to me, but
maybe this damn cold still has my head cloudy and I don't "get it"
yet.
BTW, could you roll a head gasket job into this as well? I've heard
of a lot of situations, thanks to the lower intake manifold gasket
going, that the engine would overheat, thus blowing the head gasket,
and sometimes, the heads themselves needing a trip to the machine
shop.
-GV
Mike Marlow
.
>
> BTW, could you roll a head gasket job into this as well? I've heard
> of a lot of situations, thanks to the lower intake manifold gasket
> going, that the engine would overheat, thus blowing the head gasket,
> and sometimes, the heads themselves needing a trip to the machine
> shop.
>
I haven't heard or seen any such situations. The intake gasket leaks are
small leaks which cause their own problems, but overheating an engine to
this point is a driver issue.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
GlassVial
>small leaks which cause their own problems, but overheating an engine to
>this point is a driver issue.
Sludge/oatmeal in engine = poor cooling = overheat = (potential)
head/gasket.
-GV
Pe...@nospamme.com
My 2002 Monte Carlo just developed the gasket leak at 55,000 miles
no water in the oil just yet, but you can smell the anti-freeze burning
off the engine. I have'nt' looked to see how bad it is just yet, but
am keeping the coolent topped off.
Several questions.... do GM dealers recognize that this is a faulty component
and are they making repairs at reduced prices ???
How much would I expect to pay for a repair.... gasket replacement only.
Is this a DIY job and if so... how long is it expected to take and will the
parts be reimbursed by the settlement ??
Any thoughts ???
Thanks !!!
Peter
Mike Marlow
<Pe...@nospamme.com> wrote in message
news:cvn7v31uej4fpu8tk...@4ax.com...
>
> My 2002 Monte Carlo just developed the gasket leak at 55,000 miles
>
> no water in the oil just yet, but you can smell the anti-freeze burning
> off the engine. I have'nt' looked to see how bad it is just yet, but
> am keeping the coolent topped off.
>
> Several questions.... do GM dealers recognize that this is a faulty
> component
> and are they making repairs at reduced prices ???
Some have. It all depends on how much your GM dealer values you. For the
most part they didn't help the customer any.
>
> How much would I expect to pay for a repair.... gasket replacement only.
Gasket kit is around $50 - $75. Felpro gaskets available on the aftermarket
are your best bet.
>
> Is this a DIY job and if so... how long is it expected to take and
> will the
> parts be reimbursed by the settlement ??
>
If you're pretty capable with your wrenches, it's certainly within the grasp
of the DIY'er. Expect upwards of 8 hours for your first time through this
job. Half that after you've done one. Don't get your push rods mixed up!
DAGS and you can find procedures on the net for doing the job.
--
-Mike-
mmarlo...@alltel.net
Peter
>>>instructions for applying for payments are available at
>>>www.dexcoolsettlement.com.
>
>My 2002 Monte Carlo just developed the gasket leak at 55,000 miles
>
>no water in the oil just yet, but you can smell the anti-freeze burning
>off the engine. I have'nt' looked to see how bad it is just yet, but
>am keeping the coolent topped off.
>
>Several questions.... do GM dealers recognize that this is a faulty component
>and are they making repairs at reduced prices ???
>
>How much would I expect to pay for a repair.... gasket replacement only.
>
>Is this a DIY job and if so... how long is it expected to take and will the
>parts be reimbursed by the settlement ??
>
>Any thoughts ???
>
>Thanks !!!
>
>Peter
Another question that just came to mind. Should I be using Dex Cool at
all, given that there is enough evidence to justify a class action settlement, or
should I move to the all purpose Prestone ??
Damn, I bought the car figuring GM might be trying to improve it's products.. (and
Consumer Reports did not mention one darn thing about this problem). Why do I feel
ripped off ??
Thanks again !!
Peter
Peter
Thanks Mike.... at least it's from the top of the car and not from underneath...
I'll pick a nice spring day... get some fresh air and tackle the job. Might as
well, because, seems that chances might be I"ll be doing it again in another
80 - 100 K. ( the residual resale value is so low it doesn't make sense to sell it).
Thx again...
Peter
Steve W.
Nothing wrong with the Dex-Cool. Just in peoples minds. Think about this
if it was JUST the coolant being the problem why is it that the only
engines affected are the same intake design? Why is it that ALL GM
vehicles are not suffering these failures?
The problem is the result of a gasket that was a bad design. Made that
way due to the regulations the govt. put in place regarding asbestos
use. If you look at the design of the engine and the way the gaskets are
installed it is real easy to see why they failed. GM isn't the only one
with this problem but some of the the other makers used a better gasket
design with metal reinforcement. That coupled with the lack of clamping
pressure on the gaskets due to the revised intake bolt design cause
gasket failure. If you look at the intake bolts you will find that
instead of passing through the intake into the head at a 90 degree angle
so they apply even pressure across the face of the head/intake
interface. Instead they go through at a 45 degree angle and clamp the
bottom of the intake tight by wedging it into the valley between the
heads. This applies a lot of clamping pressure at the bottom of the
gasket with decreasing pressure the farther up the interface area you
travel. Think about using a clamp on two parts, if you want even
pressure you put the clamp in the center, not at one edge. With the
pressure difference the top part of the gasket can move around more than
the bottom. The motion of the heads as they heat up and shift and the
intakes motion as it heats up also cause problems. What is the result,
the gasket fails at the stress line. If you do a bunch of these repairs
you can actually stack the failed gaskets and you will find the failure
points within 1/2" area on the ends of the gasket.
If you look at the newest design for the gaskets you can see the
difference in the construction. When you remove the old gasket look
right at the edge of the gasket and you will likely find the cracked
section that caused the failure. It sticks out like a sore thumb when
you see it.
--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
Life is not like a box of chocolates
it's more like a jar of jalapenos-
what you do today could burn your ass tomorrow!
Peter
Good explanation... thanks.... I'll be looking for the failure point and
checking old gaskets against newer after market products.
Unfortunately GM has lost a lot of credibility due to the way they
allowed the dexcool issue to continue. Maybe they should have
explained the problem just as you have... not difficult to understand.
Thanks for taking the time to explain... that helps tremendously !!
Peter
Edwin Pawlowski
<Pe...@nospamme.com> wrote in message
>
> how long is it expected to take and will the
> parts be reimbursed by the settlement ??
>
> Any thoughts ???
>
> Thanks !!!
>
> Peter
>
Thank you for contacting the legal advice portion of GM newsgroup. As I see
it, GM will not only give you free parts, but for your trouble you will also
receive a gift certificate to take your family out to dinner. You must,
however, drive the family in the GM car to the restaurant.
Real lawyers can charge up to 50% of your portion of the settlement fund,
but in my case, just send me the dessert from your dinner.
Peter
Done !!! Did you want that cheesecake with Strawberry or Cherry Topping ??
Grand Marinier Liqueur on the side ???
Planning on calling the dealer tomorrow.... just to see if he'll offer any price breaks...
Got my copy of Alldata printed out.... just in case the dealer says all the wrong words
like
"No"
$700.00 take it or leave it.
I survived 3.1 gasket changes, 3.8 manifold changes... marriage and home ownership.
This too shall be a piece of cheesecake.
On the plus side, while trying to gather as much information as I can.... visiting
www.advanceautoparts.com they've just posted a recall for an air compressor due to a
possibility of it catching on fire. Looks vaguely familiar... so I head down to the
dungeon to take a look.... yupp.... same model Strike Force 3.5HP 4.6 gal dual tank.
Recall says...." may overheat and catch fire "
Charbroiled Cheesecake anyone ??
Peter
coach...@hotmail.com
> <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Actually, the heaviest does of medicine I usaully take is a glass of
water, Thanks for your concern, though.
Also glad you countered points I made,as well. You could have,
instead, resorted to insults.
BTW, you probably have more in common with Mike Hunt than I. You both
share the same first name.
You guys related???
Sorry, Mike Hunt.
coach...@hotmail.com
> Mike wrote:
>
> > <coachros...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
And the "Traffic Director" has now thus directed thou to Takeuth a
hike, son!
BTW, Jimbo, I was looking for you over in the Toyota group a while
ago, and couldnt find you.
Pe...@spamtrap.net
>
>"Bubba Obama" <Bubba3...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:47ec7596$1$17438$8226...@news.adtechcomputers.com...
>
>> I disagree, even though I replaced my gasket at about 80k miles other than
>> that it has been a great dependable nice riding car that is holding great
>> with over 140k miles. My interior and body and paint is in excellent
>> condition except for some door dings. Engine still nice and tight too.
>
>That would be quite characteristic of GM vehicles. They are notoriously
>good to drive for 200,000 miles with only routine oil changes, and care not
>to let them overheat. The body does hold up well on them. I do not think
>they produce junk at all. Your experience is not unique, but it's also not
>completely the norm either. Many of the 60 degree engines have required
>gaskets two or three times over their lives. Some of that may be due to
>gasket material, and some to other design issues.
Ahhh... you need to take a look at my 2002 Monte Carlo..... Purchased new.
about 6 months after purchase, moisture got behind a piece of
body trim, froze and pushed it away from the body. Covered under warranty, I
pointed it out to the dealer body shop guy... he said... you'll need to leave the
car for a week to get it replaced.
Rear tailight assy... has 3 plastic studs... I noticed mine was loose a few months
after picking it up from the dealer (should have checked it beforehand ) one stud
was broken off.
It now has 57 K on it.... my remote door locks don't work, 12volt accessory plug
( aka cigarette lighter ) doesn't work, and the lower intake manifold gasket
requiress replacement. This is on a 5 year old car driven slightly over 10K miles per
year and kept garaged. What's wrong with the picture.
Now I'll have to admit, my cars don't get all that much driving or abuse and they
are kept garaged. Also located in the mid-eastern states... we're not in the rust belt
or the flood zone, or the oven zone. Kinda mild and temperate. So it's not under
extreme weather or off road conditions like you see in all those commercials on TV.
I also have a 1990 Olds Silhouette... almost 18 years old with ONLY 120 K miles
which is slightly less than 6.5K per year.
Let's see... hmmm
not counting normal maintenance items... tires, brakes. fluid changes
two alternators 600.00 repair
power steering hose 400.00 repair
rack and pinion 1000.00 repair
two water pumps 400.00 repair
Intake manifold gasket replacement 800.00 repair
current problems and those not fixed...
blower motor, not working... might be motor, might be control panel.
wiper bearing shot, motor control board stops wipers in mid-stroke.
heat core started leaking two years ago... I haven't bothered to replace it.
rear door latch broken... already replaced once
oil leaks from somewhere... haven't figured this one out... might be a valve cover.
At 120K this APV is ready for the junkheap.
my girlfriends 1994 Buick Regal....55 K bought new..seldom used...
not counting normal maintenance items... tires, brakes. fluid changes
alternator 250.00 repair
upper manifold replacement 800.00 repair
air conditioner switch 300.00 repair
My neighbors have honda's and toyota's and volvo's which take a beating
(they're soccer mom's with mid size families whose husbands commute in
gridlock traffic everyday....)... They give me their deepest sympathy for owning
GM cars... they truly feel pity for me.... Their cars work... mine don't simple as that.
My girlfriends former car was a 1984 Honda... bought new and owned until 2002 (which
was her daily commute car in a gridlock city where nothing moves ).
not counting normal maintenance items... tires, brakes. fluid changes, which she never
did anyway unless absolutely necessary
After 18 years
Wheel Bearing 300.00
This tells me a lot.
80 Knight
news:7mq9v3t1ac293uo0h...@4ax.com...
It tells me a lot too. Your a moron. If you don't like GM's, why do you
keep buying them? Just to you can bitch and moan about it? Get a life.
William R. Walsh
(tale of Monte Carlo woe snipped)
> What's wrong with the picture.
I think you got a lemon...!
> two alternators 600.00 repair
> power steering hose 400.00 repair
> rack and pinion 1000.00 repair
> two water pumps 400.00 repair
There's more to the story here. Was this work all done at the same place?
Did you do it yourself?
I find it hard to believe that any of the parts could possibly have cost
that much! Labor gets expensive quickly if you have to pay to have something
done. (It's my opinion that this is especially true at dealerships. Other
folks may disagree with me on that.)
> Intake manifold gasket replacement 800.00 repair
I've got a 1990 Lumina Eurosport sitting in my yard that may need to have
them done. As much as I may not want to, the car is in really good shape
otherwise, runs fine and I'll probably learn something in the process.
> blower motor, not working... might be motor, might be control panel.
If all the speeds don't work, it's probably the motor. Missing speeds are
most likely a result of a bad resistor pack.
> wiper bearing shot, motor control board stops wipers in mid-stroke.
Instructions for fixing this are readily available. They've been posted to
alt.trucks.chevy many times in the past. If you have a soldering iron and
some hand tools, you can really fix it.
> rear door latch broken... already replaced once
I've heard of this being a problem on many mini-vans.
> At 120K this APV is ready for the junkheap.
Oh, I don't know...if you didn't mind digging into it and spending a little
time and money, it could be fixed.
> This tells me a lot.
I believe very strongly in the concept that some car maker's products and
people don't get along well. ;-)
I've worked on a lot of vehicles over the years, and there are things I like
and hate about many popular cars. On the GM front, I think very highly of
most of their powertrain setups. I'm not so thrilled with how they rust or
the way some things are a real trick to work on. More than one late-80s
Buick has been here and running/driving great while the body was rusting off
of it. I've got one here now that hasn't seen the best of care over the
years, and the body is really rusty, but the powertrain is still strong at
over 250,000 miles.
William
Unknown
<newsg...@idontwantjunqueemail.walshcomptech.com> wrote:
>Hi!
>
>(tale of Monte Carlo woe snipped)
>> What's wrong with the picture.
>
>I think you got a lemon...!
I think I got a pain in the ass car. Along with a pain in the ass dealer.
It's like, hey guys I really don't want to rent a car for several days and
travel back and forth, while you figure out how to replace a simple piece
of body trim.
>
>> two alternators 600.00 repair
>> power steering hose 400.00 repair
>> rack and pinion 1000.00 repair
>> two water pumps 400.00 repair
>
>There's more to the story here. Was this work all done at the same place?
>Did you do it yourself?
First alternator was done by a mechanic.... I did the second one myself.
The Rack and Pinion and power steering hose were both done by the
same place. Unexpectedly, I brought the van in to have a inner tie rod
end replaced. (no flats so it could not be removed while on the vehicle).
The mechanic mentioned that when he pulled off the boot, there was
fluid leaking, so he changed the rack and pinion. 1 grand worth of work.
Not something I was ready to learn while laying flat on my back in the drive.
About 2 months later, the van is losing PS fluid... leaky hose by the crimp
joint. I couldn't get in there with a wrench while lying on my back... so back
to the garage it went. another 400.00 shot.
>
>I find it hard to believe that any of the parts could possibly have cost
>that much! Labor gets expensive quickly if you have to pay to have something
>done. (It's my opinion that this is especially true at dealerships. Other
>folks may disagree with me on that.)
>
We're talking about 125.00 an hour shop time PLUS another 10% of the bill
goes to shop charges... ( usually capped at $50.). Personally, I think a
mechanic deserves to make a living... some of these systems are pretty complex.
Having to constantly learn new skills, repair complex problems and deal with irate
people. That's gotta be worth something. A pretty fair percentage of that amount
also goes to TAXES... the shop owner pays taxes, the mechanic pays taxes...and YOU
get to give them the money needed to share the money with Uncle Sam. I wonder... all
told how much money actually goes to taxes. Probably a lot when you consider
Fed / State / Local / FICA this is before rent, insurance, supplies, utilities and
coffee for the customer. I don't think a lot of that $125.00 goes to the mechanic,
plus he probably makes out on some jobs and loses out on others depending upon
how often he beats the ' book '.
>> Intake manifold gasket replacement 800.00 repair
>
>I've got a 1990 Lumina Eurosport sitting in my yard that may need to have
>them done. As much as I may not want to, the car is in really good shape
>otherwise, runs fine and I'll probably learn something in the process.
>
>> blower motor, not working... might be motor, might be control panel.
>
>If all the speeds don't work, it's probably the motor. Missing speeds are
>most likely a result of a bad resistor pack
>
>> wiper bearing shot, motor control board stops wipers in mid-stroke.
>
>Instructions for fixing this are readily available. They've been posted to
>alt.trucks.chevy many times in the past. If you have a soldering iron and
>some hand tools, you can really fix it.
>
>> rear door latch broken... already replaced once
>
>I've heard of this being a problem on many mini-vans.
>
My previous Lumina APV had the same problem... replaced that one
twice.
>> At 120K this APV is ready for the junkheap.
>
>Oh, I don't know...if you didn't mind digging into it and spending a little
>time and money, it could be fixed.
>
Forgot to mention the transmission 'chatter' and the broken door latch.
Also, it's a 3 speed. Hell on gas.
>> This tells me a lot.
>
>I believe very strongly in the concept that some car maker's products and
>people don't get along well. ;-)
>
No idea whatsoever..... I do have a lot of familiarity with the 3.1's and 3.8's
so fixing them is occasionally easy. My daughter is driving an MR2 which can
be a PITA to work on due to the very tight, cramped conditions.
>I've worked on a lot of vehicles over the years, and there are things I like
>and hate about many popular cars. On the GM front, I think very highly of
>most of their powertrain setups. I'm not so thrilled with how they rust or
>the way some things are a real trick to work on. More than one late-80s
>Buick has been here and running/driving great while the body was rusting off
>of it. I've got one here now that hasn't seen the best of care over the
>years, and the body is really rusty, but the powertrain is still strong at
>over 250,000 miles.
>
>William
>
Thankfully there are many people here on alt.gm who have willingly
and unselfishly given me a lot of advice and direction.... Shep, Ian, Mike
Marlow, HLS and Steve W. just to name a few.... I am very grateful to them
as they've taken the time to explain why as well as what to do in many
instances. That's what keeps auto repair fun.... being able to
continue learning... and fixing more than you break. In a way... these
guys keep me motivated by their tremendous knowledge and expertise.
As a result I've been able to tackle a lot more of the jobs, thanks to
the help and support recieved from this newsgroup.
The prices are real, the labor was darned expensive..... and you can see
how much it is possible to save by DIY'g. Some things I'd like to
try in the future are replacing a rack and pinion, replacing a half axle, and maybe
rebuilding a transmission and engine. Just don't want to learn them on an APV.
Peter
Edwin Pawlowski
<Peter> wrote in message
>
> We're talking about 125.00 an hour shop time PLUS another 10% of the bill
> goes to shop charges... ( usually capped at $50.). Personally, I
> think a
> mechanic deserves to make a living... some of these systems are pretty
> complex.
That's a pricey shop rate. Around here in CT it is closer to $65 to $75.
Shop charges are 2%. IMO, shop charges should be built into the price and
not a separate line item to bleed a little more money from you.
I do remember being in New York City about 18 - 20 years ago and a BMW
dealer had a rate of $98 back then so I imagine it is up at least 25% in
that time.
A boy named Soo
All I can say is my mom drove a 85 Camry that had problems until she dumped
it at 80k miles and bought a Chevy. My brothers wife drives a Mazda from a
new purhase that has had 2 transmissions before 100k miles.
A boy named Soo
"80 Knight" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:K_2dnXw8ROZL3mja...@giganews.com...
Edwin Pawlowski
"A boy named Soo" <boob...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>>That would be quite characteristic of GM vehicles. They are notoriously
>>>good to drive for 200,000 miles with only routine oil changes, and care
>>>not
>>>to let them overheat. The body does hold up well on them. I do not
>>>think
>>>they produce junk at all. Your experience is not unique, but it's also
>>>not
>>>completely the norm either.
> All I can say is my mom drove a 85 Camry that had problems until she
> dumped it at 80k miles and bought a Chevy. My brothers wife drives a Mazda
> from a new purhase that has had 2 transmissions before 100k miles.
>
Fact is, every brand of car has it individual vehicles that perform poorly
and every brand has some that go for many miles with no problems. Overall,
the typical car today is far superior to the typical car of years ago, no
matter who made it or the country of origin.
I bought my first non-GM car in many years because I was unhappy with my
present one, but that certainly won't fix the old one or absolve the new one
from problems. I was not happy about rebuilding the transmission, but, that
is the first time in 46 years of driving that I'd had to do a serious repair
on a transmission.
If you compare the cars of the '50s and '60s that we grew up with and still
love the styling, they were poorly built and had very high routine
maintenance. Clean your plugs at 5,000 miles, replace plugs, points, rotor
at 10,000 miles. Oil change and chassis lube at 2000 miles. Common to do a
ring job at 50,000 miles, maybe bearings too. Muffler was good for a couple
of years and flat tires a few times a year.
Once you got the new car home from the dealer you started a list of things
for the dealer to repair under warranty. Common to have 10, 20, or even more
items on that list. Of the last four cars I bought new, one has one defect
from the factory, another had none for six months, the other had none for a
year, my present car has none on 18 months and 34k miles.
John Horner
and to take care of their customers the right way.
Now the damage to reputation is done AND the lawyers get to collect a
pile of cash.
And to think that in the US we pay our automotive executives 5x-10x what
Toyota and Honda pay theirs.
John
ROY BRAGG
raised their rate to $95 per hour a couple of weeks ago, and that is still
lower than some independents I would not allow to change my oil.
Roy
"Edwin Pawlowski" <e...@snet.net> wrote in message
news:%SmJj.178$GE1...@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com...
Steve W.
Keep in mind that regardless of the shop rate the hired mechanics don't
make ANYWHERE near that amount. Most of the shops around here pay
between 16-22 bucks an hour to the guys doing the wrench work.
Now consider that most of them also have to supply their own tools,
along with buying some of the special tools for odd vehicles and
probably their own scan tool as well. That can kill $15,000.00 REAL
easy. Unless you work out all the tricks and ways to beat book time on a
job you won't be making much money.
Edwin Pawlowski
"Steve W." <csr6...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> Keep in mind that regardless of the shop rate the hired mechanics don't
> make ANYWHERE near that amount. Most of the shops around here pay between
> 16-22 bucks an hour to the guys doing the wrench work.
>
> you won't be making much money.
But some guys can pull down 50 to 60 hours pay in 40 hours by beating the
book.
Steve W.
True, but they are few and far between. Plus you want to be sure that,
although they are working fast that they are doing a good job as well.
I've seen a few that work real fast that I wouldn't trust to work at a
Jiffy lube.