Workers call for stoppages, German government wants bridge loan back after GM keeps Opel
Canuck57
then squashing the deal. Fat chance Germany will see the $1.5 billion
any time soon without a heavy arm twice, money at GM disappears! Or
maybe just confiscate GM's assets in Germany.
LMAO, another sucker lent GM money is getting burned. GM has a sub-zero
credit rating.
If I was the German leader, I would give GM 7 days to have that money
back with interest or I would confiscate all GM assets on german soil,
right down to inventory.
Minister Rainer Bruederle has his work cut out. And no, I don't think
they want USDs.
--------
Workers call for stoppages, German government wants bridge loan back
after GM keeps Opel
By Geir Moulson, The Associated Press
BERLIN - General Motors Co.'s decision to scrap the sale of European
subsidiary Opel raised new uncertainty Wednesday over the unit's future,
astonishing politicians in Germany and Russia, and prompting workers to
plan walkouts in protest.
The GM board's unexpected decision to call off the sale to Canadian auto
parts maker Magna International Inc. (TSX: MG-A.TO) and Russian lender
Sberbank was a startling end to months of haggling in which Chancellor
Angela Merkel and other German leaders had strongly backed the deal.
Now German workers worry GM will make even more cuts to return Opel to
profit than Magna would have.
Still, the decision won a cautious welcome from union officials in
Britain and Poland, where workers had feared possible cutbacks in a
Magna takeover.
GM's decision handed Merkel's new center-right coalition government an
unwelcome test just a week after taking office. German officials swiftly
demanded a restructuring plan from Detroit and vowed to recover by Nov.
30 a euro1.5 billion ($2.2 billion) bridge loan granted to keep Opel
afloat as a buyer was sought.
'We will get the taxpayers' money back," new Economy Minister Rainer
Bruederle told reporters. "Dealing with employees in this way eight
weeks before Christmas is in no way acceptable," he added.
John Smith, GM's chief negotiator for the sale of Opel, said the U.S.
automaker would repay the loan "if we're requested to do so" by Germany.
'We've already begun to repay some of the bridge loan," Smith told
reporters in a conference call. "All that is outstanding is roughly
euro900 million."
Merkel, who was flying home from a speech to the U.S. Congress when GM
announced its decision, made no public comment Wednesday, but officials
made clear their annoyance.
Spokesman Ulrich Wilhelm criticized GM's "surprising 180-degree turn"
and said Merkel may soon speak with President Barack Obama about the
issue. GM is majority owned by the U.S. government, which said it wasn't
involved in the decision to keep Opel.
On Wednesday, Merkel spoke with Opel's chief employee representative,
Klaus Franz, who said it was "a black day for Opel."
There was a furious reaction from the governor of Germany's most
populous state, North Rhine-Westphalia - which is home to Opel's Bochum
plant and holds elections next May that will offer a crucial test for
Merkel's new governing coalition.
'After many promises and months of negotiations ... GM has left workers
out in the cold," said Juergen Ruettgers, a deputy leader of Merkel's
party. "This attitude from General Motors shows the ugly face of turbo
capitalism. It is completely unacceptable."
Russia, which had backed the Magna-Sberbank plan, also was caught by
surprise.
'The decision by GM to turn down the deal was astonishing," state news
agencies quoted Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry
Peskov, as saying.
Germany had promised euro4.5 billion in further financing to support
plans for Magna and Sberbank to take a 55 per cent stake in Opel - a
pledge that drew concerns from the European Union's competition
commissioner.
With those plans off the table, Germany appeared unenthusiastic about
pledging any new support - though it wasn't ruling it out.
'General Motors has the right to make an application, we have the duty
to examine this application, and the outcome of this is open," Bruederle
said.
GM, which said the European business environment and GM's health have
both improved since the company put up Opel for sale, put the cost of
restructuring at euro3 billion.
Smith said GM's plan was similar to that presented by Magna and
Sberbank, but not identical. He did not elaborate or comment on possible
job cuts.
'We feel that ... once people have a chance to look at it closely, if
they liked the Magna plan, they will also like" GM's plan, he said.
"We're going to let the plan speak for itself."
'We'll very soon present to the European governments" the plan, Smith
said. He added that GM hopes "to arrive by the first quarter at a
restructuring plan with the governments and the unions."
Unions and employees had offered cost-cutting concessions to ease a
Magna deal, such as forgoing pay increases, that are now off the table.
GM will face a new battle to secure concessions for its own plan - and
raised the prospect of a bankruptcy if it is blocked.
'It is in the interest of the unions to negotiate a deal with GM," GM
Europe spokeswoman Karin Kirchner said. Failure to restructure "would
result in the operation becoming insolvent, an unnecessary and
undesirable outcome for all involved."
However, German labour representatives were defiant.
'We won't help shape the way back to General Motors," Franz said.
"Instead, we'll take up our classic function of defending the workers."
Franz said workers would start brief work stoppages Thursday. Rudi
Kennes, another employee representative, said workers at the Antwerp
plant in Belgium, whose future is uncertain, would walk off shifts on
Friday and Sunday to warn GM against job cuts.
In Spain, Industry Minister Miguel Sebastian said Madrid would not make
concessions to GM beyond a deal it had with Magna to accept 900 job cuts
at Opel's Zaragoza plant.
'We are not willing to budge even an inch," he said.
The mood was different in Poland and Britain, where workers had feared
pressure to save jobs in Germany would leave them bearing the brunt of
cutbacks.
Magna had said it planned to cut about 10,500 of the 50,000 jobs at Opel
and sister brand Vauxhall in Europe, with less than half the job cuts,
or around 4,500, in Germany - home to around half the work force. It
also said it would keep all four German plants open.
'The future is still uncertain, but our fear is smaller," said Miroslaw
Rzezniczek, a Solidarity union official at the Gliwice plant in Poland.
"Magna ... did not want to guarantee that our plant will not be closed."
Despite the lack of details, "I am pleased we will be dealing with GM
because we know them and we understand their culture - and they know
us," said John Featherstone, a Unite union official at Vauxhall's
Ellesmere Port, England plant.
There was plenty of resignation, but little optimism, at the
Ruesselsheim plant in Germany, where Adam Opel GmbH has its headquarters.
'They led us all around by our noses," worker Michael Kleinmann said.
"They're not interested in the fate of individuals."
Co-worker Ali Yildiz said: "Now everything's possible again, just like a
year ago."
raamman
>
> If I was the German leader, I would give GM 7 days to have that money
> back with interest or I would confiscate all GM assets on german soil,
> right down to inventory.
>
based on the content of your post, you should be, but ik don't think
she has the authority to confiscate or nationalise the assets.
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FmqIm.3123$gg6....@newsfe25.iad...
Canuck57
people. Same old GM, didn't change one bit. Ok, polished up their
corruption some so they could skim hard working Americans at the pay
chque with the government doing the collections for Government Motors.
The new Government Motors, screwing more people than ever before.
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:FcLIm.2945$ky1...@newsfe14.iad...
Canuck57
are getting saddled with the $100 billion debt spend does it mater if it
goes to GM (old) or GM (new) to disappear in the gian corruption hole?
Get with the plan, GM can play with the paperwork and bullshit to
circumvent honest business practices, but it is the same old welching
GM. Don't lend GM money unless you want a tax write off.
raamman
> From a taxpayers point of view it maters not at all. If the taxpayers
> are getting saddled with the $100 billion debt spend does it mater if it
> goes to GM (old) or GM (new) to disappear in the gian corruption hole?
>
> Get with the plan, GM can play with the paperwork and bullshit to
> circumvent honest business practices, but it is the same old welching
> GM. Don't lend GM money unless you want a tax write off.
>
>
>
> Mike Hunter wrote:
> > Are you really that slow, that you still do not know the difference? LOL
>
> >news:FcLIm.2945$ky1...@newsfe14.iad...
> >> One in the same in my books, just a legal manouver to screw other people.
> >> Same old GM, didn't change one bit. Ok, polished up their corruption some
> >> so they could skim hard working Americans at the pay chque with the
> >> government doing the collections for Government Motors. The new Government
> >> Motors, screwing more people than ever before.
>
> >> Mike Hunter wrote:
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
gm was lent money to keep jobs; if gm folded, a lot of jobs would go
too, a cascade effect to the suppliers shippers and those who benefit
from them; the disaster that is detroit would have spread throughout
much of north america.it was a lot better to lend the money than to
give that money to feed the unemployed- gm has a responsibility to use
that money wisely
Mike Hunter
LOL
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:__2Jm.3304$ky1...@newsfe14.iad...
Mike Hunter
that would have been lost, to the US Treasury from the hundreds of thousands
of people that earn their taxable income BECAUSE of the former "General
Motors," would far exceed the amount loaned to the new GM. That was
besides the States and local government income and other taxes that would
have been lost as well.
Not to mention that the New GM is a major US defense contractor
"raamman" <raa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:72c7df76-cb2f-4dc2...@g23g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Canuck57
Do the math. It would have been cheaper to pay their wages for 5+ years
to sit on their asses at home and do absolutely nothing. Far, far
cheaper. Obama isn't detailing where all that money ened up, and he
will not. Simply put, taxpayers were and are being screwed.
Canuck57
Canuck57
Government Motors is now Government manufacturing. Obama the marxist.
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:IdoJm.4172$ky1....@newsfe14.iad...
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:LfoJm.4174$ky1....@newsfe14.iad...
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:KeoJm.4173$ky1...@newsfe14.iad...
raamman
>
> Do the math. It would have been cheaper to pay their wages for 5+ years
> to sit on their asses at home and do absolutely nothing. Far, far
> cheaper. Obama isn't detailing where all that money ened up, and he
> will not. Simply put, taxpayers were and are being screwed.-
$ 50 billion for about 50 000 workers makes about $1 million per year
per person- but you need to factor in the secondary and tertiary jobs
that go alongside the auto industry; consider the parts stamping and
molds, the folks making those dies, the folks who make, sell, and
repair the cnc machines, presses the list goes on; if we consider one
job at gm has about 4 other jobs in support that $1 million goes down
to $40 000 per anum per person; and of course, there is the issue of
those who were already owed for materials and services rendered- take
that away from the $ 50 billion and the per person sum gets even less.
It sucks hard, I know; I personally think the loan should have gone to
smaller start-up competitors such as tesla who are exploring new
technologies- smaller companies are far more dynamic and have far less
fat.Too many people ignored the reports of gm burning through cash
reserves long before last years crash- when the crash happened it was
far too late. Oh, and there is no way the govt, any govt, could've
gotten away giving unemployed autoworkers anything more than
unemployed workers are supposed to get.
Ingo Menger
> GM is ticking off the Germans. Getting a bridge loan to sell Opel and
> then squashing the deal. Fat chance Germany will see the $1.5 billion
> any time soon without a heavy arm twice, money at GM disappears! Or
> maybe just confiscate GM's assets in Germany.
>
> LMAO, another sucker lent GM money is getting burned. GM has a sub-zero
> credit rating.
>
> If I was the German leader, I would give GM 7 days to have that money
> back with interest or I would confiscate all GM assets on german soil,
> right down to inventory.
>
> Minister Rainer Bruederle has his work cut out. And no, I don't think
> they want USDs.
The funny thing is:
a) GM does not want to sell Opel, after months of negotiations.
b) Nevertheless, they admit they can't save Opel by their own, but
need more taxpayer money.
What kind of economy do those guys think we have? An econmomy based on
wishes addressed at the government? (Perhaps this is how it works in
the U.S., alledgedly the "home of capitalism"?)
Not so! You want to keep it? No problem, if you can afford it. You
can't? Then praise yourself lucky if you find a buyer.
Mike Hunter
Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer and their former assembly plants, that are either
closed or still in operation are still owned by the former "General Motors,"
which is under the control of the US federal bankruptcy court, not the new
company "GM."
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:c74435d8-0610-4ae4...@t2g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
hls
What kind of economy do those guys think we have?
*************
They dont think at all. Otherwise they wouldnt have been in the shit that
they are in.
Canuck57
What about the $20 billion given to them after the $50 billion? And
GMAC and Delco, pushes it right past $100 billion for GM and reminants.
Add some interest, because Obama put it on the credit card as part of
his $1.3 trillion debt-sending spree....
And you just mortgaged your future, your childs future, and your
grandchilds future....
Because the debt, the cause of this recession causes more unemployment.
This is like saying the eggs have too much salt so you add some more.
In the end, this is likely the end of the US economy as the world's
primer economy.
Also fact in the dilution of the currency as it debt-spend ponzi money,
and the shole nation will see a signifigant wealth reduction.
hink I am full of it?? Ok, go for it. Why is unemployment so high?
Bailouts not working? How come GM will not post a leger as to where all
the money went? Keep in mind for something this expensive even if could
work the payback is something like 30 or 50 years on a prayer.
You and others have been succered into selling out the USA.
Canuck57
change anything.
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:8voLm.13172$ZF3....@newsfe13.iad...
Mike Hunter
"Canuck57" <Canu...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:YvoLm.13173$ZF3....@newsfe13.iad...
Ingo Menger
> You are confused, Ingo Menger! "GM" no longer OWNS Opel. Opel, like
> Saturn, Pontiac, Hummer and their former assembly plants, that are either
> closed or still in operation are still owned by the former "General Motors,"
I never claimed otherwise.
(I use to abbreviate "General Motors" as "GM", like it or not.)
And please, if it's not completely beyond your intellectual capacity:
learn to quote.
Mike Hunter
fact remains you are incorrect when equate the old "General Motors"
corporation to the new GM corporation. They are two comply different
corporations today. The former of which no longer exists, except in the
records of the bankruptcy court. Even that reference will go away when its
assets have been fully disposed.
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:c2b94759-b002-42d7...@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Ingo Menger
> Actually you did just that. It is not a question of what I "like," the
> fact remains you are incorrect when equate the old "General Motors"
> corporation to the new GM corporation. They are two comply different
> corporations today. The former of which no longer exists, except in the
> records of the bankruptcy court. Even that reference will go away when its
> assets have been fully disposed.
It does not matter a bit.
Whatever it's name is, but the firm "Adam Opel GmbH" has an owner (or
a board of owners).
This owner must decide whether to keep Opel or not.
If the decision is not to sell, then fine. But don't beg for
government money then. We don't want/need loosers and beggars here in
Germany. But, perhaps, Ben "the Printer" Bernake can help with future
american tax dollars trannsfered to the present with that wonderful
machine the FED owns, the printing press?!
Mike Hunter
court, charged with dispose of the remaining assets of the debunked "General
Motors."
The US government has nothing to do with the former "General Motors." The
US government is invested in "GM," not "General Motors."
If the bankruptcy court can not sell Opel, Hummer, Saturn or Pontiac as
operating companies, it will be obligated under the bankruptcy law to sell
off their assets.
I should be noted that "GM" is scheduled to begin paying back its US
government loans starting in the next quarter, with a 1.5 billion payment
and will repay the loans a year sooner than required.
As to BO and the Congress, spending money we so not have and trying to
socialize our heath care system, I agree, that is lunacy. We could end up
like the counties in Europe that are economic disasters surviving on
inflation that is raising the cost of doing business their to the point
European manufactures are moving their manufacturing off shore to the US and
the far east.
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:719a90ce-7cc4-4360...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Tom
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:719a90ce-7cc4-4360...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Maybe the US should ask for all the money we had to pour into Germany after
WW2 and all then money
US spent on employing German citizens since, Germany didn't stop begging
then.
>
>
>
Mike Hunter
were made in factories built, under the Marshal plan, with US taxpayer
money.
"Tom" <t...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hduok3$hve$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ingo Menger
> You are still confused. The owner, as you call, it is the bankruptcy
> court, charged with dispose of the remaining assets of the debunked "General
> Motors."
If this were so, why then did they not sell to Magna? Remember, there
was already an agreement reached in the summer.
> The US government has nothing to do with the former "General Motors." The
> US government is invested in "GM," not "General Motors."
Who cares?
> If the bankruptcy court can not sell Opel, Hummer, Saturn or Pontiac as
> operating companies, it will be obligated under the bankruptcy law to sell
> off their assets.
Yes, they can! This is just my point.
Ingo Menger
> "Ingo Menger" <quetzalc...@consultant.com> wrote in message
> > This owner must decide whether to keep Opel or not.
> > If the decision is not to sell, then fine. But don't beg for
> > government money then. We don't want/need loosers and beggars here in
> > Germany. But, perhaps, Ben "the Printer" Bernake can help with future
> > american tax dollars trannsfered to the present with that wonderful
> > machine the FED owns, the printing press?!
>
> Maybe the US should ask for all the money we had to pour into Germany after
> WW2 and all then money
> US spent on employing German citizens since, Germany didn't stop begging
> then.
Tom, I really didn't intend to violate your patriotic feelings. Look,
I do not have a bad opinion about the current owner of Opel because it
is american. On the contrary. I have a bad opinion because they can't
or won't decide whether to sell or not, and are obviously playing
games to get tax money. And this is - or, at least, was at some time -
un-american, is it not?
The "US" employed germans, so what? Under conditions of freedom it is
so that such is a benefit for both the employer as well as the
employee.
And yes, of course, what the US did for modern germany in and after
WW2 will never be forgotten. But is this a reason to back a firm on
the grounds that this is (or was) somehow*) an US firm?
*) In modern stock markets, the notion of a firm "belonging" to a
certain nation does not really make sense anymore.
Ingo Menger
> I is somewhat ironic that the things that the Germans are export to the US
> were made in factories built, under the Marshal plan, with US taxpayer
> money.
I think you overestimate the impact of the Marshal plan a bit.
And please, do not forget, that germany is also exporting factories
and jobs to the US, as you yourself correctly pointed out in another
post.
Tom
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:4c3a0430-9e56-4a1d...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
I think VW just received around 500 mil in state taxpayer assistance to
build their factory
VW did the same in Pa. received taxpayer money and inferstructue
improvements and 10 year
tax relief, at the end of 10 years guess what they moved it to mexico. If
you check Mercedes, And BMW also received
taxpayer money to move into the US. By the way Sony moved into the vw
factory used more tax money then 10 years later they closed it down. if
foreign companys can keep making fools out of our govt. we should be able to
do it to others.
Ingo Menger
> "Ingo Menger" <quetzalc...@consultant.com> wrote in message
You mean, two wrongs make it right?
Mike Hunter
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:9484c35d-bdee-40d9...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
Mike Hunter
expensive to build what they sell in the US, in the US.
Someone has to pay the cost of six weeks of vacation, 19 holidays and the
five hours, per week per man, of production that is lost every year.
"Ingo Menger" <quetz...@consultant.com> wrote in message
news:4c3a0430-9e56-4a1d...@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
Mike Hunter
profits they earn in the US, back to Japan US federal corporate tax free.
The Jap government turns around and gives the money back to the corporations
for R&D. Greedy American consumers could not care less, it seems
"Tom" <t...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:he0pr7$l6i$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Ingo Menger
> You bet they are, because of the socialism in Germany and Europe it is less
> expensive to build what they sell in the US, in the US.
This is partly correct.
> Someone has to pay the cost of six weeks of vacation, 19 holidays and the
> five hours, per week per man, of production that is lost every year.
Last time I checked it was the "american consumer" who carried the
terrific burden of consuming the lions share of all that stuff that is
produced world wide, just to get the economy going, while paying with
extremely precious, freshly printed paper money. :-)
(Is it really true that there exist people that honestly believe this
kind of crap?)
But you seem to think that the US is much different regarding
"socialism"? Perhaps this might help:
http://georgereisman.com/blog/2008/10/myth-that-laissez-faire-is-responsible.html
" ... What this brief account has shown is that the politico-economic
system of the United States today is so far removed from laissez-faire
capitalism that it is closer to the system of a police state than to
laissez-faire capitalism. The ability of the media to ignore all of
the massive government interference that exists today and to
characterize our present economic system as one of laissez-faire and
economic freedom marks it as, if not profoundly dishonest, then as
nothing less than delusional. ..."
Prof. Reisman also writes in his blog about GM in June this year:
" ... In its last years, the company was reduced to the status of a
“benefits” company, a company existing primarily for the purpose of
paying the pensions, medical benefits, and exorbitant wages of the UAW
members. In its last year, the company was reduced to the status of a
beggar-benefits company, as it repeatedly turned to the Federal
government for the billions of dollars that were needed to keep it in
existence for just the next few months, in the hope that in that time
a miracle would appear that would allow it to survive." (http://
georgereisman.com/blog/2009/06/general-motors-rip.html)
Looks like money from a single government is not enough anymore to
continue the US/UAW socialism. Now, the europeans are supposed to
continue the endless bailout? No, thank you. Let this stinking carcass
rest in peace.