Buying 92-94 Taurus - engine & heater?
foxeye
foxeye wrote:
Troll no, just know a better car when I see one. Not one bit of info
that was given in response to this question, is bogus, and is a
readily known fact that Ford has a recall on these motors for head
gasket problems..so I advised him. Not any freaking time was anything
said to sway him to Toyota, so bite my freaking ass Marc. you like
your freaking Ford products, I like Toyota, the fact still remains
they have had transmission, motor and various other problems with the
very year of vehicles ranges he asked about. A used car with little or
no warranty would be a c hance and you dam well know it. $1,400 for a
A/C compressor replacement? Double that for head problems, you know
it. $1,200 for a power seat track assy, $489.00 for power motor for
windows, $390, for a smart switch, and now they even have a recall on
the headlight switch. I would suggest the prospective buyer checking
the list of recalls on this vehicle, and see what has been done, and
what has not. . Its very common knowledge these model years bring
lower value on the lots for just this reason. You are just so dam
bumned out as your stuck with your low quality Ford prodcut, you can't
stand it.
now bite my ass again Marc, see what quality tastes like, its as close
as you'll ever come to having any!
On Sun, 5 Jul 1998 12:52:43 -0500 (CDT), EAT...@webtv.net (Mark C.)
wrote:
>Dave, this Foxeye person is a Toyota troll who is very biased against
>Fords. Please wait to hear some other opinions before making a decision.
>I do not have any personal experience with Tauruses, but my brother had
>2 Taurus wagons and he says they are good cars. I would have no qualms
>about buying one.
The opinions expressed are mine, and mine alone.
My wife had no input whatsoever.Remove www from
email for correct address. Never trust a rocket
or motor company from "Claremont Calif"
NAR #70031
Mark C.
To foxeye: Dear Toyota Loving Troll - My brother also owned the very
cars this fellow is seaking to buy & his Tauruses were trouble free. I
have read many of your posts, troll. You are here for one reason and one
reason only - to bad mouth Fords. I confine my activities to the Ford
ng, you won't see me in the Toyota ng bleating endlessly about your weak
and useless Toyotas. That is because I don't troll. Take your foolish
nonsense back to the Toyota ng where it belongs. As for my low quality
Fords, mine have been 100% reliable, it has been years since I have seen
the inside of the dealership other than to buy cars and get routine
maintenance. So stick your bland, boring, weak Toyota where the sun
don't shine. My handsome, powerful and reliable Ford Contour SVT is far
superior to any Toyota sedan that has ever been made.
FORD SVT RULZ!!! TOYOTAS SUCK.
Daniel Szubra
Seems like there is quite a bit of discussion going on about Fords and
Toyotas.
Our Family owns a 93 Ford Taurus 3.8L engine GL series (40K miles) and a
92 Toyota Camry V6 3.0L (3VZ-FE engine) 125K miles.
These cars see all four seasons of weather here in Ohio. I hope this
will be informative for you Dave
Taurus:
Generally runs well, but used in city driving. Perform oil changes at 3
month intervals since not much mileage put on per year around 5K. The
3.8L engine has quite a bit of power, but I have encountered some
problems.
Learned about car TSB's (Technical Service Bulletins) and have addressed
a few problems.
Recalls:
Front engine mount required replacement-no charge.
Need to take car back in on electrical switch recall for lights?
Problems:
Blower motors: The heater blower motors on many Ford models may make a
"chirping sound". The TSB for the problem recommends replacement. I
would have been able to have this done under warranty, but the car base
warranty has expired. Haven't replaced my little chirper as of yet. Only
seems to chirp at low blower speeds.
Engine warble: The 3.8L has a TSB to eliminate a low frequency warble
coming from the engine. I notice this at idle and it really has not been
an annoyance yet. I can't remember if this was valve train or a lower
block problem.
Engine warmup: In comparing my Toyota 3.0L and the Taurus 3.8L, the 3.8L
does take longer to heat up but does deliver slightly more heat then the
Toyota. I think this is more a less a function of the size of the engine
(thermodynamics -heat transfer) and the temp setpoint of the radiator
cap.
Engine head gasket: I think there is some merit in Mr Foxeye's remarks
about head gasket problems. I have noticed some oil leakage at this time
on the intale mainfold / head bolt area. However, I have not noticed any
coolant in the oil during changes nor have I had to refill the overflow
bottle. I am trying to diagnosis a Check engine light that comes on and
goes off. I think there might be some relationship with this problem.
Currently, am trying to use Check engine codes to diagnose. Haven't been
able to pinpoint as of yet. Thjs problem has not affected driveability.
In late 1997 Popular Mechanics had an ad for the ALLDATA CD available for
a specific car at a price of $19.99. This was a good deal. I see some
of the newsgroup members have used this and I recommend it as a handy
troubleshooting aid to the backyard mechanic. Definetly better than
Chilton's and other after market repair manuals. I think much of the
data assembled from ALLDATA is from Ford dealer manuals. It has plenty
of illustartions, general troubleshooting hints, and a list of TSB's for
the car. The CD actually has many car databases on it. However, you pay
per car and are given a password to access the given car.
In retospect the Toyota:
No recalls:
No engine related issues:
Air Conditioning:
A little trouble with the AC. Had the condensor and dryer repaired at
95K miles. This car is a R12 Freon system like the 93 Taurus. You may
want to go for a later model Taurus after 94 ( I think) were the new
R-134 Freon is used.
I am happy with both cars at this point. I would appreciate any info on
the intermittent Check engine light problem. Driveability is OK at this
time. Just want to stay ahead of a gremlin problem if it should arise.
I perform all preventative maintenance on both cars:
Both cars are a pain to remove back three spark plugs along firewall.
Toyota requires a bit more diassembly, but uses plantinum plugs 60K
instead of Ford 30K (regular plugs).
Oil changes on the Toyota are easier than the Ford. The filter on the
Ford is a little akward to remove. To eliminate from getting oil in the
front crossmember place some plastic over it before removing the filter.
Both car drain plugs are fairly accesibble.
I like the drain plug on the Toyota transmission pan. Never did
understand why every domestic car I worked on did not come with a
transmission fluid drain plug?
One last question to the group:
If a TSB is in effect for your car is the dealer still obligated to
service your car even if the warranty has expired.
Seems to me that most TSB's address engineering F-ups ( I am an engineer
I been know to make mistakes) so why should the owner bear the burden?
Have to go know. enjoyed sharing this info
Questions
and Comments Appreciated.
Dan
Dave wrote:
> I live in cold winter Minnesota and am planning on buying a 92-94
> Taurus. I have a few concerns about the car and would appreciate any
> advice as I am planning on buying one within the next week.
>
> I have heard the heater/defrosters are very slow to heat up on cold
> days. Are the 94's quicker to heat up than the 92s/93s. Is the 3.8 L
> engine quicker to heat up than the 3.0 L engine?
>
> Are there significantly more problems with the 3.8 L engine than with
> the 3.0 L engine?
>
> Any general recommendation for the 92 vs 93 vs 94?
>
> Thanks
Graham Shortt
Who cares how good the heater is if youre walking in the cold to a payphone
to call a towtruck? If your find yourself obsessed with buying a taurus
then avoid the 3.8. As for transmissions the later the year the better as
you get about two tanks of gas per transmission on the earlier
(91,92,93's). I understand the transmission problem was virtually solved
in around 95.
Dave <d...@millcomm.com> wrote in article
<359F97DF...@millcomm.com>...
foxeye
foxeye wrote:
I went the route with the Check engine light.
In and out of the dealer many times, each time the various codes
pointed to a code 233. as well as the EGR valve.and the EGR
controller. The egr valve and controllers was replaced, but the
light still came on periodically. Finally ford changed both o2 sensors
after much hassleing. Result, light still remained on. Heads /
gaskets were replaced (again) shortly after this, and the light still
remained on. The dealership said they did not have a clue. What fixed
it was replacing the small piece of hose the PCV valve attaches to on
the vac. line. It had a slight vac. leak in this area, and with the
numerous times the gaskets etc were replaced on the heads and intake,
it just aggravated the situation each time. I can say honestly, the
check engine light never came back on once the PCV valve and the
attaching hose was replaced. Since then, I have been told most of
Fords Check Engine lights are attributed to vac. leaks, more so than
sensors.
True most tranny problems were overcome after 94
It used to take 3 months of use for me to notice the overflow res.,
low. Also it used to have a oily film in it. Very little was evident
as far a foam or white slime in the oil filler cap or dipstick, it was
mainly in the rad cap , the coolant itself had a oily film and the
resivoir.
On a side note, its truly amazing how many indeed think their American
name vehicle is all american and buy for this Patriotic, purpose, when
the majority is made in another country and assembled in america, The
Dodge trucks so I am told are made in Mexico. A good portion of the
Jap cars are made in USA and are as american as their competition is.
Everyone has their own view as to what is boring, or stylish, etc, and
with me not being one to jump in and buy just to buy, I had compiled a
lot od data from lots of friends as to what they drive and how and
what they like / dislike. I am not brand loyal by any means, and go
for the most bang and serviceability for the $$. I have had Fords from
1978 up to 1994. I had a 1980 F250 with over 329,000 totaly
troublefree miles, a 1984 Ranger with over 240,000 miles, and a 1990
F150 with close to 100,000 with virtually no problems. But the 1992
Ranger was a oil guzzler from day one, and the 94 Sable was just a
general piece of trash. It literally had more problems than one would
be able to support without a warranty, and it was these same things
over and over, that led me to make the break from Ford. I now own a
1997 GMC SLT (19,000) miles and a 98 Camry,16,000 miles and the wife
owns a 98 Avalon that already has 24,000 trouble free miles, and none
of these have yet to be in for anyting other than normal services such
as oil changes. Much more than I can say about the Fords products or
the vehicles some of my friends have. Me i will give up stylish and
good looks for dependability anyday of the week. Our local Toyota
dealer sells an awfull lot of vehicles as does oour Ford dealershoip.
The Toyota dealership has far fewer lines for service work and shorter
wait times as compared to the Ford, where there are 6 entry lines for
service as to the 2 for a Toy, and 2 for the GMC. True this is not
really a sign of dependability, but there always seems to be less wait
for anything at the Toyota dealer. The Ford dealership has 3 full time
tranny mechanics, the toyota dealers tranny guy also does other work,
as their is just not enough work for him doing trannys all the time.
(I know, he is my cousin).
foxeye
The opinions expressed are mine, and mine alone.
Arthur Perrin
Graham-tell me more if you can. I just bought a '95 Taurus GL on the
understanding that a lot of the earlier Taurus problems had been solved.
Got an extended warrantee on the the engine and drive train as a result
of what I have read. Am trying to resolve an excessive wind noise
problem.Any info would be appreciated .
Art Perrin
foxeye
foxeye wrote:
Have your dealer check your interior door handle seals. I have been
told it was a and still is somewhat of a problem on cars that have
been in service for a while for the seal that blocks out air etc
around the inside of the door handles to become undone, as well as
sometimes the forward weatherstripping on the back doors of sedans to
fold inward. I had the inside door handle seals replaced 2 times in 3
years and both times it had produced wind noise. The tranny problems
were solved somewhere around mid 94 or so, when they switched the part
that gave the trouble from aluminum to steel. I forget exactly the
name for it, but this part used to crack and cause the car to nudge
forward and made it very slow shifting.
foxeye
On Mon, 06 Jul 1998 16:03:24 GMT, Arthur Perrin <ape...@sympatico.ca>
wrote:
The opinions expressed are mine, and mine alone.
Inger
Dave,
I have to agree with foxeye on this one. The 3.8L does have more problems
then the 3.0L. Talk to your local garage or Ford service dept. they should
confirm this and its only a phone call. The three different mech's I
talked to (one was my Ford mech) all said they have seen lots of problems
with the 3.8's, mostly head gasket though. I am having my 3.8L replaced in
my '94 Sable as I type. I love the torque the 3.8L has but you have to
wonder if its worth the $2000 for a new motor. My advice stay away from the
3.8L and go with the 3.0L.
Greg
ruiter
foxeye wrote:
> service as to the 2 for a Toy, and 2 for the GMC. True this is not
> really a sign of dependability, but there always seems to be less wait
> for anything at the Toyota dealer. The Ford dealership has 3 full time
> tranny mechanics, the toyota dealers tranny guy also does other work,
> as their is just not enough work for him doing trannys all the time.
> (I know, he is my cousin).
>
What !!!! Toyota trannies break down ?? no WAY !!! :-)))))BTW there are a lot
more Ford's sold than Toyota... might explain this, dude.
eric
yes they all suck. thank god that engine's day's are numbered.
John Vogel wrote:
>
> Inger (nun...@nbiznis.com) wrote:
> : Dave,
> Does that advice apply to the '97's as well?
>
> John
> jvo...@i1.net
John Vogel
Gerald Wang
No it doesn't, because the 3.8 V6 is no longer available on the newer
ones ('96 and up).
Regards,
Gerald
Gerald Wang
Inger <nun...@nbiznis.com> wrote:
>Dave,
>I have to agree with foxeye on this one. The 3.8L does have more problems
>then the 3.0L. Talk to your local garage or Ford service dept. they should
>confirm this and its only a phone call. The three different mech's I
>talked to (one was my Ford mech) all said they have seen lots of problems
>with the 3.8's, mostly head gasket though. I am having my 3.8L replaced in
>my '94 Sable as I type. I love the torque the 3.8L has but you have to
>wonder if its worth the $2000 for a new motor. My advice stay away from the
>3.8L and go with the 3.0L.
FWIW, there's a TSB/recall out for the head gasket problem.
Gerald
cyberf...@gmail.com
> My wife had no input whatsoever.Remove www from
> email for correct address. Never trust a rocket
> or motor company from "Claremont Calif"
> NAR #70031
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
been, historically, a superior product to most American manufacturers
-but also commanding a premium price, particularly on the used market.
I now own my 4th and 5th Ford products - all purchaced used, 1 sold at
240,000km, one sold to a friend who took it over 300,000km, one
scrapped at age 16 years due to body rust, and the current 2 being 11
and 17 years old - the 17 year old Ranger with 313,000km on it and
totally trouble free to date.
I've purchaced them all for half or less what I would have had to pay
for a Toyota of the same age, mileage, and function.
I'm not complaining.
Ashton Crusher
they were fairly trouble free. I know that of the ones assigned to
the group I ran we never had any significant problems with any of
them. We just drove em till their time was up (which was often way
past 100K) and sent them to be auctioned and got new ones. Sure,
every brand has it's problems but I find it interesting that the Ford
Head Gaskets seem to be well known to the Toyota fans yet they seem
completely oblivious to the more or less same problem that affected
Toyota's V6 a few years and was the subject of a recall. Similarly,
they act like they never heard of all the sludged up Toyota V6s that
Toyota blamed on the owners not doing oil changes even when the owners
showed all the receipts from the Toyota Dealer for the oil changes
they did. Then there were the Toyotas that had electric problems that
caused the "lock" power to remain stuck in ON position and preventing
the trapped owners from opening their door... while the lock motors
overheated and set fire to the doors!!!
Guv Bob
Olds was the most trouble-free and luxurious, but hardest to work on.
Fords' my choice for best all round & least trouble except whining power steering pump (Ford stocked replacement whines as well) and A/C compressor failed early (expensive fix).
Chevy 300 small block best engine around, always had to rebuild trans at 70K miles, A/C compressor ice cold never failed, chain broke at 225K miles, also elec windows got off the track easily early on and difficult open up the door panels and get them back (take to a pro for this).
Toyota was good least problem of any car I've had. But price is too high these days.
Mitsubishi (DSM) mixed feelings - good running but repeating problems with computer/sensors/wiring after 70K miles. I'd say this is a good hobby car for someone who likes to spend hours under the hood.
IYM
>
> Of all the cars I've owned over the years....
>
> Olds was the most trouble-free and luxurious, but hardest to work on.
>
> Fords' my choice for best all round & least trouble except whining power steering pump (Ford stocked replacement whines as well) and A/C compressor failed early (expensive fix).
>
> Chevy 300 small block best engine around, always had to rebuild trans at 70K miles, A/C compressor ice cold never failed, chain broke at 225K miles, also elec windows got off the track easily early on and difficult open up the door panels and get them back (take to a pro for this).
>
> Toyota was good least problem of any car I've had. But price is too high these days.
>
> Mitsubishi (DSM) mixed feelings - good running but repeating problems with computer/sensors/wiring after 70K miles. I'd say this is a good hobby car for someone who likes to spend hours under the hood.
>
carb...Had a wax pellet that controlled the choke and when the car
warmed up, the pellet would relax and lower the idle, when it got cold
it retracted. The damn thing would wear out and you would have to
replace the carb, which had more hoses and tubes connected to it than a
quadruple heart by-pass patient....
My most reliable cars have been my Fords...F-150 - Heck, even my 1976
Granada was hard to kill...pos one barrel carb, but could never kill
that straight 6. My 1993 6 cyl T-Bird was in the range of the topic,
and *did* have the issue with the head gasket...blew at 111K miles and
had a nice smoke cloud behind me a Prestone shooting out on the exhuast.
Did a Head gasket job, and sold it with 211K miles with no other
problems....
My GM's I seem to always have electrical issues, and will never buy
another. 1993 Buick dash was always screwed up....same on my '06 Saturn
Vue...Windshield wipers not working occasionally, press the volume up
button and volume goes down on the radio, and every time the electric
radiator fan goes on, the traction control light on the dash comes on,
then turns off when the fan does....some wacky crap...
We are in the market now for an inexpensive family car - Look at the
Kia's - Disappointed....tinny, uncomfortable and way over priced. Check
out the Nissan Sentra, some of hyundia's offerings, the Toyota Camry &
Corolla but way overpriced for what you get, and and then Ford. Looked
at the Fiesta and when the drivers seat is back it's hitting the back
seat and was overpriced in my opinion for what you get - That's out.
The Focus is marginally ok for us size wise (my wife and I are tall, not
fat!..lol with 2 tall kids for the back seat) ,.... But we really liked
the Fusion - some good incentives and got a price on a '13 for $20,500.
Doing so research and thinking about that one...Still in the vetting
process and don't want to rush, even if the offer for that is only good
till the end of the month, I'm sure other sales will come again.. :)
Ashton Crusher
wrote:
cl...@snyder.on.ca
>
>>
>> Of all the cars I've owned over the years....
>>
>> Olds was the most trouble-free and luxurious, but hardest to work on.
>>
>> Fords' my choice for best all round & least trouble except whining power steering pump (Ford stocked replacement whines as well) and A/C compressor failed early (expensive fix).
>>
>> Chevy 300 small block best engine around, always had to rebuild trans at 70K miles, A/C compressor ice cold never failed, chain broke at 225K miles, also elec windows got off the track easily early on and difficult open up the door panels and get them back (take to a pro for this).
>>
>> Toyota was good least problem of any car I've had. But price is too high these days.
>>
>> Mitsubishi (DSM) mixed feelings - good running but repeating problems with computer/sensors/wiring after 70K miles. I'd say this is a good hobby car for someone who likes to spend hours under the hood.
>>
>
>carb...Had a wax pellet that controlled the choke and when the car
>warmed up, the pellet would relax and lower the idle, when it got cold
>it retracted. The damn thing would wear out and you would have to
>replace the carb, which had more hoses and tubes connected to it than a
>quadruple heart by-pass patient....
carb - I replaced them with Holley Weber carbs from Pintos and Vegas
MANY times.
>My most reliable cars have been my Fords...F-150 - Heck, even my 1976
>Granada was hard to kill...pos one barrel carb, but could never kill
>that straight 6. My 1993 6 cyl T-Bird was in the range of the topic,
>and *did* have the issue with the head gasket...blew at 111K miles and
>had a nice smoke cloud behind me a Prestone shooting out on the exhuast.
> Did a Head gasket job, and sold it with 211K miles with no other
>problems....
>
in North America since the original Flathead.
>another. 1993 Buick dash was always screwed up....same on my '06 Saturn
>Vue...Windshield wipers not working occasionally, press the volume up
>button and volume goes down on the radio, and every time the electric
>radiator fan goes on, the traction control light on the dash comes on,
>then turns off when the fan does....some wacky crap...
>We are in the market now for an inexpensive family car - Look at the
>Kia's - Disappointed....tinny, uncomfortable and way over priced. Check
>out the Nissan Sentra, some of hyundia's offerings, the Toyota Camry &
>Corolla but way overpriced for what you get, and and then Ford. Looked
>at the Fiesta and when the drivers seat is back it's hitting the back
>seat and was overpriced in my opinion for what you get - That's out.
>The Focus is marginally ok for us size wise (my wife and I are tall, not
>fat!..lol with 2 tall kids for the back seat) ,.... But we really liked
>the Fusion - some good incentives and got a price on a '13 for $20,500.
The new Dart and Chrysler 200 may give it a run, but the jury is still
out - not enough experience yet.