Pros and Cons Dodge Turbo Diesel Vs Ford Power Stroke
REDEAGLEJW
DuneJunkee
exchange going here.
Len
pretty good truck and my dissatisfaction has been with dodges unwillingness
to take any responsobility for obvious design problems. The Dodges brakes
are not the best, nor their automatics. The cummings engine is a better
engine and will last longer. The Cummings starts an a dime ALWAYS without
preheat except in maybe 15 degree weather where a little preheat is desired.
The Dodge's engine on the automatic is tuned to aprox 60 hores power less
because of the limitations of the transmission.
I'm going to the Ford because I not only have to get away from Dodge but
they have 4 wheel disc brakes and I havn't heard near as much bad about
their automatics even though I'm going to a 6 speed. Their engine also
pulls harder as any commerdial hauler who has used both trucks will tell
you. The fuel mileage on the Ford will be probably 3-4 mpg less. The Ford
rides a little better and is quieter. The Ford requires preheating even in
warm weather. When I went to the Ford dealer the other day to test drive
one, at 85 degrees, it didn't start until I preheated. A neighbor of mine
who just bought one had to do the same thing in warm weather. The Dodge at
45 degrees ar above required literally a 1/2 second turn of the key to
start. I don't know if Ford detunes their automatics.
Good luck
DuneJunkee <dunej...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991005111513...@ng-ck1.aol.com...
Steve St.Laurent
<19991001212519...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
>Whats the Pros And Cons Vs these 2 trucks?
I have a 98.5 2500 Quad Cab Long Bed 4x4 24v Cummins and is my 2nd love of
my life (soon to be 3rd - my wife is #1 and our baby that is due January
28th will be #2). That is so that you know my biases going into this. I
also have a close friend that has a 96 12v that is nearly identical but is
just an extended cab. I fell in love with my friends 96 3 years ago when I
rode in it and vowed that I would one day own my own. I finally took the
plunge 2 months ago. I found my truck used on the internet at a dealer in
Ohio about 4.5 hrs away from me. I have made quite a few mod's to the truck
already as you can see on my signature line below. IMO, it's the best truck
on the road today by far. One advantage that Ford has is the Crew Cab and I
also think they have a better auto transmission. If you HAVE to have either
of those features you may want to look at a Ford. Otherwise look really
hard at the Dodge.
The Ford is a little faster in stock trim than the Dodge as long as they are
both unloaded. But once you put a load on em the Dodge will walk away.
Also, power increases are cheap and easy on the Dodge. I put a TST
powermax1 computer on mine in 45 minutes and it upped the engine from 235 hp
and 460 ft/lbs of torque to 275 hp and 660 ft/lbs of torque instantly. It
also improved throttle response substantially - it hit's boost right off of
idle. In stock form it was pretty quick to 2,000 rpm and then it was fast
to 3,300. Now it's fast to 2,000 and oh my god fast to 3,300! All for just
$799. I am getting 19-20 mpg unloaded and about 17 mpg pulling a 6,000 lb
flat bed trailer/Jeep. I also have a friend that has a 97 Crew Cab Dually
2wd PSD and the 3 of us pull our rigs to the dunes regularly. He only gets
12-13 mpg unloaded and 9-10 mpg loaded out of his PSD. Not only that but we
are WAY faster than him pulling the loads. The last time we went my truck
was still stock so this is a stock to stock comparison. Once he hooked up
with us we had to slow down from cruising at 75 mph to 70 mph because he
can't keep up. Now keep in mind that everyone we talk to says that there is
something wrong with his truck but they haven't been able to find anything
yet. He's trying to get Ford to buy it back - his dad is a high level ford
exec.
The best comparison between the two engines that I know of is that the same
Cummins engine (at a higher rating) is put into 18 ton over the road
trucks - they simply detune them and put them in the Dodge (hence the easy
tune back up if you'd like) it is listed as a medium duty truck engine
whereas the powerstroke is listed as a light duty truck engine. In the
larger ford's F550,650 (I think the 450 and 750 too) you can upgrade and pay
extra $ to get the ISB Cummins instead of the powerstroke. Why would they
(ford) offer it as a more expensive upgrade if it wasn't a better engine?
The reason they can't offer them on the F350 and below is because of an
exclusive contract between Dodge and Cummins for that application. Also if
you look at the drivetrains the 3/4 ton Dodge actually has pretty much the
same drivetrain (axles, transfer case, transmission) as the 1 ton Ford.
You might want to check out http://www.turbodieselregister.com and go
through the discussion groups there. For $35 you can join the group and get
the magazine and be able to post to the group and get a lot of advice on
what options you want. If I had looked into the group before I bought I
would have bought a truck with 3.54's not the 4.10's that I got. Browsing
on that site is free but to post messages you have to join. If you are even
considering buying a turbo diesel dodge I'd recommend joining for the info.
It'll be the best $35 you'll ever spend. Sorry for the long post but I just
recently went through this decision so I have a lot of fresh thoughts.
BTW - consider buying used, I saved over $8,000 and my truck has only
24,000 miles on it and that was with a 100,000 mile extended service
contract (supposedly bumper to bumper except wear items).
-Steve St.Laurent
'98 Quad Cab Long Bed (CMNSPWR), 4x4, ISB, 5sp, 4.10 LSD, Prime-loc remote
fuel filter,
boost & pyro gauges, TST Powermax, Permatech spray in liner, Grizzly
stainless nerf bars,
BFG 285/75R16 AT KO's
http://my.voyager.net/stevest
Mike
Len wrote in message <7td8ll$j4v$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>...
>Their engine also pulls harder as any commercial hauler who has used both
Len
Mike <NoS...@EatMoreSpam.com> wrote in message
news:7tddk9$q09$1...@nntp4.atl.mindspring.net...
RRXP689
The ISB is NOT available in the F-450/550. It is available as the BASE
power level in the 550/650. The PSD and a CAT engine are also available. The
CAT carries the highest power rating.
Other than that I agree with most of your post. I also think there is
something wrong with your buddies PSD.
Chris
>The best comparison between the two engines that I know of is that the
>same<BR>
>Cummins engine (at a higher rating) is put into 18 ton over the road<BR>
>trucks - they simply detune them and put them in the Dodge (hence the
>easy<BR>
>tune back up if you'd like) it is listed as a medium duty truck engine<BR>
>whereas the powerstroke is listed as a light duty truck engine. In the<BR>
>larger ford's F550,650 (I think the 450 and 750 too) you can upgrade and
>pay<BR>
>extra $ to get the ISB Cummins instead of the powerstroke. Why would
>they<BR>
RRXP689
Cummins. I bought this truck because I came across a deal when I was looking
to buy a used PSD. For the money I defiently made the right choice.
Observations on my 12V Cummins: versus the PSD in stock form my Cummins was
underpowered (400lb/ft w/auto trans). It pulled OK and got great mileage (22
empty, 10-12 pulling). The Dodge part of the truck was pretty impressive. It
had 70k miles when I bought it and didn't squeak or rattle at all. The ergos
of the older (95) interior suite me well. Basically I thought it was an Ok
truck to get me by. Maybe sell it in a year or two and make a profit. Then I
started to dabble. In went a TST kit ($300), shift kit ($200), trans coolers
($200), and a TC lockup switch ($2). For less than a grand I had the baddest
pulling machine around. This truck now kicks serious ass! I consistently pull
10-12k lbs with the cruise at 70+ mph. Mileage is now 18 empty and improved to
12-14 pulling. The Cummins is rock solid and has lots of potential. The Dodge
part of the truck is now 40k miles older (110k) and is starting to squeak and
rattle. Brakes are Ok compared to the Ford. Thing I don't like about the 12V
Cummins is lack of rev-range. With my 3.54 gears the motor is out of revs at
about 90mph. I've raced PSDs and kicked ass to about 70 when my motors saying
I'm done and they just getting to the meat of the powerband. I don't see how
you guys with the 12V and 4.10 gears get down the road! : )
Observations on the PSD: My father-in-law has a new '00 Crewcab, dually
PSD. It doesn't have quite the pure pulling torque of my truck. It's not bad,
and would blow away my truck in stock form, but it's just not there on steep
grades with heavy loads. The ergos of the interior are not to my liking. Alot
of hard surfaces on the door panels and armrests. The truck does ride much
smoother than mine though and the brakes are slightly better. I like 4-wheel
disk just because they are easier to work on. The PSD has a broader rev range
than the 12V Cummins. I like to be able to rev it to 3000+ rpm. Drives more
like a gas motor. The new ISB will rev high though so this is a crap shoot.
In all honesty engine reliablity would have to go to Cummins though Navistar
has made gains. Also, who really cares for the rattle-clat-clat-rattle of the
PSD? I know I'm asking the wrong group but I can't see anyone honestly adoring
that sound! Maybe it's just because I hear it 11 hrs a day!
Bottom line?: Both engines are torque monsters. The Fords must be good
trucks because at the big quarter horse shows in the midwest PSD out number
Dodge and Chevy atleast 5-1. I like my Dodge and will buy another if the price
is right. Both engines are capable of about 300hp when really leaned on so if
you're looking for a power advantage the only limitation, as always, is how
deep your pockets are.
Chris
Palnelson
The 5.9 ISB is not available in the 550 super duty. Base motor for the 550 is
the V-10. PSD is the only upgrade for 00, auto trans standard.
Wish Dodge made a truck with 15,000 - 19,000 gvw.
Until then Ford has my Trucks.
Paul Nelson
97 Dodge 2500 CC TD (office away from office)
97 Ford super duty (F450) psd
99 Ford F-550 PSD
00 Ford F-550 PSD
00 Sterling 28,000 gvw (CAT)
Hattmakr
>Wish Dodge made a truck with 15,000 - 19,000 gvw.
>
>Until then Ford has my Trucks.
>
Funny, the specs on my 99 say the GCVW is 18,200. Are the spec sheets wrong?
Andrew
>post)
>From: hatt...@aol.com
>>Wish Dodge made a truck with 15,000 - 19,000 gvw.
>Funny, the specs on my 99 say the GCVW is 18,200. Are the spec sheets wrong?
He was talking about gVwr
not gCwr. Your spec sheet is right, they are just two different specs.
Ram is gVwr to either 8800 lbs(2500) or 10,500[11,000 some models](3500)
Andrew
RRXP689
>power level in the 550/650.
I can contridict myself in two sentences or less! To clarify. The ISB is not
available in the F250 thru 550 SD. It is avaiable as the base diesel in the
650-750. By base I mean lowest hp rating. Not sure on price.
Chris
Palnelson
no upgrades for the ISB
one problem if equiped with auto, max trailer gvw is 10,000 lbs. Need to up
grade to the CAT motor for more trailer GVW ( over 10,000)
Flemming@MacDonald
the T444E is the design, the hp is higher in the Navistar versions, I know
it will not pull "alot harder" as I have bolth, and my Ram will do the same
job, and some more(I'm talking pulling in Low Low here, actually stalled the
Ford towing), and the Ford is faster, but, it doesn't have the almost flat
torque curve of the Cummins(I-6 vs. V8, like comparing apples to oranges,)
As for the commercial versions, the B5.9 vs T444E is the same as the Ram and
F Super Duty engines, only with more power, but, the T444E is avalable with
more power(I think) only then will it pull more than a Cummins.
Evan MacDonald
Len wrote in message <7tdia3$7vh$1...@nntp2.atl.mindspring.net>...
Mike
pulling engine than the Cummins 5.9 24V . With all the comments and
comparisons on this NG you'd think they would catch on. Its a loyalty
thing, nothing else.
Let me pose this question that must have been answered on this NG by now:
Does any major Medium Duty Truck manufacturer (Class 5-7)(KW, Freightliner,
International, etc.) use the 7.3 powersmoke and if so what is the GCVW of
those trucks?
I know that Freightliner puts the 5.9 Cummins in the FL-60 Tractor and with
the 17,500 rear axle it has a GCVW rating of 50,000 lbs.. Is the 7.3 used
in this manner?
Mike
Flemming@MacDonald wrote in message
<9M5L3.771$H%5.3...@sapphire.mtt.net>...
F450
He isn't kidding, the only thing that is the same between the Ford 7.3 and
the T444E is the design, the hp is higher in the Navistar versions, I know
it will not pull "alot harder" as I have bolth, and my Ram will do the same
job, and some more(I'm talking pulling in Low Low here, actually stalled the
Ford towing), and the Ford is faster, but, it doesn't have the almost flat
torque curve of the Cummins(I-6 vs. V8, like comparing apples to oranges,)
As for the commercial versions, the B5.9 vs T444E is the same as the Ram and
F Super Duty engines, only with more power, but, the T444E is avalable with
more power(I think) only then will it pull more than a Cummins.
Evan MacDonald
The software is what gives the T444 more power than the Power Stroke. It is
limited because of emissions allowed at certain GVW and based on what the
drive train will handle as well.
F450
Let me pose this question that must have been answered on this NG by now:
Does any major Medium Duty Truck manufacturer (Class 5-7)(KW, Freightliner,
International, etc.) use the 7.3 powersmoke and if so what is the GCVW of
those trucks?
Do they use the Mack engine?
Did you ever think that, they don't want to use the competitions engine?
PDR
with gvw up to 66,000 #.
RRXP689 wrote:
>
> The 5.9L is NOT the same motor found in OTR 18-wheelers.
> The ISB is NOT available in the F-450/550. It is available as the BASE
> power level in the 550/650. The PSD and a CAT engine are also available. The
> CAT carries the highest power rating.
> Other than that I agree with most of your post. I also think there is
> something wrong with your buddies PSD.
>
> Chris
>
> >The best comparison between the two engines that I know of is that the
> >same<BR>
> >Cummins engine (at a higher rating) is put into 18 ton over the road<BR>
> >trucks - they simply detune them and put them in the Dodge (hence the
> >easy<BR>
> >tune back up if you'd like) it is listed as a medium duty truck engine<BR>
> >whereas the powerstroke is listed as a light duty truck engine. In the<BR>
> >larger ford's F550,650 (I think the 450 and 750 too) you can upgrade and
> >pay<BR>
> >extra $ to get the ISB Cummins instead of the powerstroke. Why would
> >they<BR>
Hattmakr
>Do they use the Mack engine?
>Did you ever think that, they don't want to use the competitions engine?
>
I stand corrected on this, but I think Mack engines are exclusive only to Mack
built vehicles. They don't distribute their engines as Cummins and Cat do.
Alan
Steven B
I thought Cat bought Mack last year.