Code 43 dupe scenario
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Well, the 'check engine' light (code 43) came back on today, 6 months
since last clearing it and replacing the coil and cleaning the
connections.
However, I have found the dupe scenario to "make it" come on. After
clearing the code if I accidentally start the truck w/my foot lightly on
the accelerator and thereby cause a slight over-rev (1500-2000 rpm) it
will cause code 43 to pop up every time. But clear the code and -don't-
accidentally over-rev at start-up and it never comes back.
Ideas? (I know, keep my foot off the accelerator when starting... duh)
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Well, it's been a few months but the @#!*&@&! code 43 problem came back
again, this time with a vengeance. Cleared it manually and in a day or so
it was back again. Autozone's OBDII tool indicated cyl #7 misfire. That
tells me a lot... Shotgunned it with all new plugs, cap, wires, coil,
still no help, sumbitch coded again next day, same indication on the OBDII
tool, #7 misfire. Shit! For no particular reason I ran a compression
check, all cyls came in within 10 lbs and #7 was actually among the
highest. Problem finally cleared (quit coming back) after cleaning
(flushing) the injectors. Prolly shudda done that to start with. It's been
a whole week now and all seems well. Keeping my fingers crossed. I don't
feel like I wasted any money as everything was all original and the truck
was due for some TLC. 71k miles is prolly about right for new plugs, wires
& etc. The good compression check also gave me warm fuzzies that the valve
train & rings are in good shape.
Moral of the story; code 43 problems can be a little difficult to isolate
and correct.
Tom Lawrence
> and correct.
Yep. Misfires can be due to lack of spark, lack of air, or lack of/too much
fuel. The systems aren't good enough to detect which.
If it occurs again, a quick way to isolate the problem is to bleed the
pressue from the fuel rail (pull the fuse for the pump, and run the engine
till it dies, or if you have a shrader valve on the fuel rail [some years
did, some didn't], you can bleed it with a pressure gauge), then swap the #5
and #7 injectors. If the misfire moves to #5, you've found your bad
injector.
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
>If it occurs again, a quick way to isolate the problem is to bleed the
>pressue from the fuel rail (pull the fuse for the pump, and run the engine
>till it dies, or if you have a shrader valve on the fuel rail [some years
>did, some didn't], you can bleed it with a pressure gauge), then swap the #5
>and #7 injectors. If the misfire moves to #5, you've found your bad
>injector.
Well crap, here we go again. ('97 Ram 1500, 5.2, 74k miles). It's been a
bit over 2 months since I had the injectors cleaned, new plugs, new
ignition wires, new coil, new cap, all Chryco OEM parts. Since then I've
made a 2200 mile road trip to Illinois & back without issue. The problem
came back yesterday, code 43. Stopped by Autozone on the way home tonight.
Their OBDII tool says exact same as before, cyl #7 misfire. (same
cylinder) How much trouble is it to do as you suggest above?
Any chance choice of gasoline brand could be contributing to this??
maxpower
out tap on a paper towel with the injector to see if any dirt comes out,
you may have gotten some contaminated fuel and it always effects that
injector first
<Ram...@dodgecity.cc> wrote in message
news:op9fr0tn1j3ctm91j...@4ax.com...
Tom Lawrence
> cylinder) How much trouble is it to do as you suggest above?
Pretty simple. The fuel rail is easily accessed, and just held down with a
couple of bolts. The important step is to bleed the pressure first. First,
disconnect the negative battery cable (for safety, and to clear out the
misfire code). Remove the hold-down bolts, and gently rock the rail back
and forth while pulling it up. The injectors are just pressed into the
bosses on the manifold, and seal with an O-ring. You may be able to just
pull the one side up, or you may have to pop both sides out (don't know -
never tried to remove half a fuel rail). Disconnect the electrical
connectors on the two injectors you want to swap, then remove them from the
fuel rail (little finny-looking clip that holds them on). Swap them, and
put a thin coat of vaseline or grease on the O-rings (all eight of them), so
that they slide back into place easily. Push the injectors back into the
ports, and re-secure the hold-down bolts. Make sure you re-connected the
electrical connectors, hook the battery back up, and drive it. If the code
comes back with a different cylinder, you know it's a bad injector, and you
know how to change it. If it still indicates a cyl #7 misfire, well....
we'll tackle that if the need arises :)
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
Thanks. Sounds easy, maybe a project for this Sunday. Gotta work some OT
Sat'dy. Still wondering if this could be fuel related. The stuff I use
is presently down to 1.69/9 (Diamond Shamrock/Valero) - They're one of
the majors here in TX, but almost always way under, typically 8¢ ~ 10¢
under everyone else and never got above $1.93/9 back when everyone else
was above 2 bux. Chevron across the street from this guy is presently
$1.77/9 Average mean price for 87 octane in Houston right now is $1.79/9
(except along I-10, there it's whatever the traffic will bear).
Mike Simmons
<Ram...@dodgecity.cc> wrote in message
news:uhhfr0p33tdcusn2d...@4ax.com...
> under everyone else and never got above $1.93/9 back when everyone else
> was above 2 bux. Chevron across the street from this guy is presently
> $1.77/9 Average mean price for 87 octane in Houston right now is $1.79/9
> (except along I-10, there it's whatever the traffic will bear).
RamMan:
Two other things come to mind that bear checking:
1.) You may have routed the plug wires too closely together causing a
"crossfire" situation. In fact on your truck there "may" be a TSB which
addresses this.
2.) With that many miles, you "may" have a significant carbon buildup in
the combustion chamber and around the valves. The carbon acts as a sponge
soaking up the fuel intended for the cylinder causing the misfire. A good
combustion chamber cleaner may help for this.
Mike
>
maxpower
refering to what is at the bottom of the tanks in the ground that you
purchased it from, water, sediment and all that crap, i always make it a
habbit to not purchase fuel from a facility that has the tanker there
filling up the in ground tanks, all that does is stir up the trash at the
bottom for you to put in your tank
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
<mik...@yhti.net> writes:
>Two other things come to mind that bear checking:
>1.) You may have routed the plug wires too closely together causing a
>"crossfire" situation. In fact on your truck there "may" be a TSB which
>addresses this.
>2.) With that many miles, you "may" have a significant carbon buildup in
>the combustion chamber and around the valves. The carbon acts as a sponge
>soaking up the fuel intended for the cylinder causing the misfire. A good
>combustion chamber cleaner may help for this.
Thanks Mike, will check this too.
One thing I've discovered is after clearing the codes, I can sometimes
actually "make it" come back by starting the truck with slight
(accidental) throttle pressure, about ź-throttle while cranking. The
result of course is a peppy over-rev, maybe 2000-2500 rpm at first
ignition, but only for a second or so. However, then within 30 secs or so
after an accidental over-rev'd start the "Check Engine" light will come on
and stay on (43) until cleared again. I realize I shouldn't do that, and
conciously try not too, but s%#! happens.
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
<damnni...@yahoo.com> writes:
>when i say fuel related, i dont mean what the supplier delivers, im
>refering to what is at the bottom of the tanks in the ground that you
>purchased it from, water, sediment and all that crap, i always make it a
>habbit to not purchase fuel from a facility that has the tanker there
>filling up the in ground tanks, all that does is stir up the trash at the
>bottom for you to put in your tank
That makes sense. At consistently 8~10¢ under the competition you can
probably imagine the volume this guy sells. Frequently on Mondays when I
fill up, half of his pumps have plastic bags over the 87-octane nozzle and
the others are flowing *really* slow, probably almost out too. Still I
have to wonder why are some of his pumps completely out of 'regular' and
others on a different island -not- out? Maybe he has multiple underground
tanks for the same grade. That's the only thing that would explain it.
I think we may have actually hit on something here. I don't know if I'm
going to get a chance to work on the truck this weekend or not, but I
think I'll start running some Chevron or Exxon through it and see if
there's any improvement. Can't hurt and what the hell, it's only money.
maxpower
from the truck, they may consist of pumping out 1/2 gallon from the fuel
rail
<Ram...@dodgecity.cc> wrote in message
news:1tvhr09tcda5aculg...@4ax.com...
Bob M
I know my 01 Ram 5.2l auto started to ping on Quick Trip 87 octane. I
switched to Phillips 66 87 octane and the pinging continued as well as
rough idle when cold. I read here about Chevron and how is was
recommended. For the last year I've been using Chevron 87 octane and the
rough idle at cold is gone as well as the pinging. I pay a little more
for Chevron but to me it's worth it. I have always used a fuel injection
cleaner at every oil change.
Bob
maxpower
a reprogram of the PCM for spark knock TSB 18-006-01 revA It would be
covered under warranty, The extended emissions warranty for 999 months
Glenn Beasley
Chrysler Tech
"Bob M" <ram...@vzavenue.net> wrote in message
news:41BA1CEA...@vzavenue.net...
Bob M
>
> Hey Bob, if your truck is pinging you may want to get this flash done, its
> a reprogram of the PCM for spark knock TSB 18-006-01 revA It would be
> covered under warranty, The extended emissions warranty for 999 months
> Glenn Beasley
> Chrysler Tech
> "Bob M" <ram...@vzavenue.net> wrote in message
> news:41BA1CEA...@vzavenue.net...
> > Ram...@dodgecity.cc wrote:
I thought about that but I've read here that the flash actually robs
the truck of power. After switching to Chevron the truck doesn't ping
anymore. But thanks for the info.
Bob
FMB
And now you can (if you haven't already) quit the fuel injector cleaner
every oil change.
--
FMB
(only one B in FMB)
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
It's b-a-a-a-a-c-k!!!!!!
Code 43
P0307 - cyl #7 misfire.
Took your suggestion and swapped 5 & 7 injectors about 3-4 weeks after
your above post. Even started using Chevron gas. Been fine for going on 4
months, but it just came back. It's cyl #7 again in spite of the injector
swap.
I am fresh out of ideas.
Tom Lawrence
> months, but it just came back. It's cyl #7 again in spite of the injector
> swap.
Hmmm... okay, we can pretty much rule out injectors as the problem -
although the fact that it occurred again on #7 could be a fuel contamination
problem - #7 is closest on the fuel rail to the inlet, so any trash in the
line usually ends up clogging the #7 injector. However, I'd then expect you
to have immediate misfires on #5, since that used to be the #7 injector, and
it would have been clogged/fouled previously...
I'd now guess some cross-firing of the plug wires. It's been a while, so I
forget what was discussed before. How old are the plug wires? Have they
been re-routed per the TSB?
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
TSB?????? What TSB? Haven't seen it.
Everything's new. Plugs, wires, coil, cap, all within the last 6-8
months, all in a quest to solve the #7 misfire problem. Have held off on
replacing the injectors because they're expensive. The truck is a '97
1500 5.2 automatic. 77k miles. Daily commuter, 17 miles in through stop *
go traffic, 17 miles back home @70 mph via a brand-new tollway. Have been
running Chevron fuel for the last 10-15 tankfuls.
Cleared the code (Autozone's OBDII tool) and dumped some injector cleaner
in it last fillup, so far so good, cold idle presently smooth but I know
sure as God made green apples it's coming back. Nothing's ever that easy
to fix.
So tell me about (or point me to) this TSB.
Most recent incident the truck developed a rough idle when cold, i.e.,
first start-up of the morning, 2-3 minutes later it coded.
Tom Lawrence
Mike Simmons
"Tom Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:IvQUd.2674$wy3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Tom:
He could also have an excess build-up of carbon around the valve and
combustion chamber. Maybe a dose of Mopar Combustion Chamber cleaner would
be in order before spending major bux. Of course, the crossfire TSB should
be performed as well.
Mike
>
>
Tom Lawrence
> combustion chamber. Maybe a dose of Mopar Combustion Chamber cleaner
> would be in order before spending major bux. Of course, the crossfire
> TSB should be performed as well.
Yep - was thinking about that, as well... just strange that it went away
for several months. Nevertheless, that should be the next course of
action - along with a change of plugs (since the CC cleaner tends to trash
plugs)
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
>> TSB?????? What TSB? Haven't seen it.
>
>This one: http://dodgeram.info/tsb/1998/18-48-98.htm
Wow, thanks. Got it, printed it, read it. Makes sense. Project for this
weekend, possibly. (between the honeydo's) Assume the parts (convolute,
clips, etc) are readily available.
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
Plugs are new, wires are new, coil is new, rotor cap is new, all Mopar
stuff from the dealer.
Remember that so far even when it's remained clear for weeks/months on end
that I have always been able to make it 'code' simply by starting the
truck with accidental slight accelerator pedal pressure (causing a slight
overrev at ignition.) That behavior has been with us for the past year. It
will code 43 (P0307) within 30 secs to 1-2 minutes of that event. Does
that suggest anything (besides a complete doofus behind the wheel)?
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
>Hmmm... okay, we can pretty much rule out injectors as the problem -
>although the fact that it occurred again on #7 could be a fuel contamination
>problem - #7 is closest on the fuel rail to the inlet, so any trash in the
>line usually ends up clogging the #7 injector. However, I'd then expect you
>to have immediate misfires on #5, since that used to be the #7 injector, and
>it would have been clogged/fouled previously...
Trash in the line? Wouldn't the fuel filter in the tank catch that or are
we talking about sump'n else?
Tom Lawrence
> clips, etc) are readily available.
It's available (or at least used to be) as a kit from Mopar, but you can get
by with your basic split-loom and some universal ignition wire clips. The
important thing is to separate the wires that are adjacent in the firing
order (order is 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 - and it's typically the 5/7 combo that
cross-fires, becuase those wires naturally want to run parallel with each
other). Keep the wires spaced at least a wire-thickness apart, and when
they do have to cross, make them cross at as close to a right angle as
possible (minimize their co-mingling).
Also make sure that you keep the coil wire isolated, as running that
adjacent to any plug wire is just as bad, if not worse, then having two plug
wires in direct contact. Some have even gone so far as to re-locate the
coil to the firewall (something else that's pretty easy to do - just need to
make a bracket, and extend the wire harness - two wires, very easy to do).
When you think about it, it's not the smartest location for the coil to
begin with... the further away from the distributor, the more voltage that's
lost to resistance, especially as the wires age.
Tom Lawrence
> we talking about sump'n else?
The fuel line is steel. Water in the gas can cause the line to begin to
rust, and when the rust particles break off, they can clog an injector.
Again, since #5 didn't start misfiring right away, I think that can be ruled
out.
Ram...@dodgecity.cc
Lawrence" <tNlOaSwPrA...@earthlink.net> writes:
Thanks Tom
Well, the coil wire runs up the 2-4-6-8 side of the engine and my problem
is over on the other side, but yes I agree it's location on the truck
struck me as a bit odd. Hmm.. where have I seen that firing order before?
Oh yes, GM ;-)
It's spozed to be nice here (Houston) Satd'y so I'm hoping I can steal 30
mins or so away from the wife's 'honeydo' list to try this TSB. It's rodeo
time in Houston and her brother's family from Tampa will be here sponging
off of us for a few days next week to go out and walk amongst the manure
and see all the excitement. It's really a big-big deal, the rodeo takes
over the whole Astrodome and Reliant Stadium complex. http://www.hlsr.com
if you're interested.