1998 C5. "Service Tire pressure system" ?

[Tedd Riggs]

Since I bought my 98 C5 a few months ago, about half the time the air
pressure gauge on the front left tire either takes far longer to turn on and
show pressure, or most of the time does not show anything and sometimes
shows "PSI XXXXX"
I went thru the "retraining" of the sensor and that did not seem to
change anything. I am thinking that just that sensor is going (battery ?)
but I do get a warning often in the display console that says "Service Tire
Pressure system" ( or something close to that).
Would you get that warning if just one sensor is bad or is that saying
the whole system is having problems ? The other three sensors always work
and am debating if I should spent the $125 per sensor and get the front left
replaced ? I am assuming its a double sided tape connection or small bolt on
that the local tire dealer can change or is this a dealer only thing ?
Talked to two local tire dealers and they have changed plenty of tires with
the sensor on them, but never had to replace one.
Thanks for any idea's !

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

[Dad]

Simple change, break the bead, remove the nut, take out the old, put in the
new, replace the nut and seal, and inflate the tire.

Sensor numbers

1997 - 2000 10438853

2001 - 2002 (25648293) new number 25731358

Sensor numbers 7-6-02

1997 - 2000 10438853 ($ 99.45 net $140.87 list) $46.13 - $71.96 - 25731358

Then you can have a new battery installed - http://www.nericreations.com/ It
shows what the sensor looks like.

--
Dad
04 C5 CE Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:ZFQic.72609$L31....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

[Tedd Riggs]

Dad,
Thanks for the prices and URL to neri, I had guessed someone must rebuild
them, but never found a site as my guess is that's its just a $2 internal
battery that goes bad.
Local dealer wants $134 for them, they said they are always in stock as
they sell alot of them.. Guess I am not the only one that has problems. Gee
I like the prices much better on the newer sensors !
Thanks for the info, that one is my next project for next week.
Tedd

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"Dad" <knoc...@fish.net> wrote in message
news:0rednUTmnPt...@bright.net...

[C5_Alan]

I read that there are no batteries involved. They generate power from the
rotational motion (piezoelectric) to transmit to the car computer.

in article 5iRic.72830$L31....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net, Tedd Riggs at
tedd...@NSverizon.net wrote on 4/25/04 9:02 AM:

> Dad,
> Thanks for the prices and URL to neri, I had guessed someone must rebuild
> them, but never found a site as my guess is that's its just a $2 internal
> battery that goes bad.
> Local dealer wants $134 for them, they said they are always in stock as
> they sell alot of them.. Guess I am not the only one that has problems. Gee
> I like the prices much better on the newer sensors !
> Thanks for the info, that one is my next project for next week.
> Tedd

--
'99 Magnetic Red coupe, light gray interior
6-speed, performance handling, active handling, HUD, etc.

[Bob I]

The C4 has the piezo type, the C5 is supposed to have a "10 year"
lithium battery.

[Tedd Riggs]

I thought that I had also seen the 10 year lithium battery also. That's what
bugs me, paying out $140 because of a $2-$5 battery that you can probably
buy at the local drug store.
I take it when I replace it, I will have to go thru all the "retraining"
of the sensor also ?
Thanks.

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"Bob I" <Bo...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:108op2l...@corp.supernews.com...

[C5_Alan]

You're both right about the lithium battery. Here is an article I found
online. The piezoelectric device must be used to sense the pressure, not
generate power for the transmitter:

(
http://www.designnews.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA150635&cfd=1
}

Tire telltale. Yaw sensors are far from the only silicon-based sensors on
today's cars. Peel back the tires on the new C5 Corvette or Chrysler
Prowler, and you'll find micromachined pressure sensors integrated into the
tire valve stems mounted to the alloy wheels. Developed by Schrader
Electronics (Antrim, N. Ireland) the remote tire pressure monitoring system
(RTPMS) gathers inflation information on the fly and transmits the data to
a receiver in the car for display on the dash.

It uses a version of the model NPP-301 pressure sensor from Lucas Novasensor
(Fremont, CA). Containing an ultra-small Silicon Fusion Bonded
piezoresistive chip in a plastic, surface-mount package, the sensor
produces a voltage output that is linearly proportional to the input
pressure. Engineers at Schrader incorporate the sensor into an
injection-molded plastic housing which also contains an ASIC, a radio
transmitter section, a centrifugal switch, and a lithium battery, all
potted for durability.

Begin driving the vehicle and the centrifugal switch places the RTPMS in
"driving mode" in which pressure readings are gathered every 30 seconds and
transmitted every 15 minutes. Should a rapid pressure change occur, the
system increases transmissions to 30-second intervals as well. Driving mode
contrasts with "stationary mode" in which the system wakes up every 15
minutes to take pressure readings, transmitting to the receiver once an
hour. Engineers chose these discrete information gathering and transmission
routines as a way to maintain performance while obtaining a ten-year
battery life.

In the US, RTPMS broadcasts its bitstream of pressure data at 315 MHz, a
frequency set aside by the FCC for on-car telemetry systems. In Europe, the
favored channel is 433.92 MHz.

Accuracy is claimed to be ą2% full scale between 0 and 50C with a resolution
of 1 psi. Still, the biggest engineering challenge wasn't designing a system
to gather pressure data, but rather transmitting it. "You don't normally
think about designing an RF transmitter that whirls around in a wheel at 60
mph and must transmit through a steel lattice--effectively a Faraday
cage--to a receiver which is partly shielded by a metal body, now do you?"
says Alastair Johnston, RTPMS marketing manager at Schrader. "It took us
five years to develop the system, and it was definitely loads of fun." in
article jK%ic.40852$G_.2...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net, Tedd Riggs at
tedd...@NSverizon.net wrote on 4/25/04 8:54 PM:

> I thought that I had also seen the 10 year lithium battery also. That's what
> bugs me, paying out $140 because of a $2-$5 battery that you can probably
> buy at the local drug store.
> I take it when I replace it, I will have to go thru all the "retraining"
> of the sensor also ?
> Thanks.

--

[Tedd Riggs]

Interesting article ! Sounds like the piezoelectric also switches the
battery on.
I got a response back right away from NeriCreations.com and he said the
problem for sure sounds like a dying battery. Only thing I am not sure is
what to do. Neri wants $ 67.22 (with 2 day shipping), but if I go that
route, I have to go to a tire place twice, once to pull the old sensor and
replace with a regular tire valve and then again when I get the sensor back,
has to be pulled again to install the fixed sensor. Am wondering how the
prices work out for:
$67 for fixed sensor and the cost to break down the tire twice.
$147 for a new sensor and break the tire down once.

Will have to do some checking on this one, too bad Neri does not have a core
charge so you could just get a refurbished Sensor and then send your old one
back after you swap them.

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"C5_Alan" <nos...@myisp.com> wrote in message
news:BCB26FC0.4AF2%nos...@myisp.com...

[John Smith]

Tedd,
Maybe you can help me. I bought a '98 C5 with a new tire pressure sensor
installed. I need to "retrain" that sensor. How do I do that? Is this
something I can do from the dash or will I need a special tool?
Thanks,
Mike

"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:ZFQic.72609$L31....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...

[Dad]

A special magnet is needed. one that is strong enough and its poles need to
be

on both sides of the valve stem, by the wheels rim to just below the valve

(inside of wheel).

Press dic option button until display is blank.

Hold dic reset button for 3 sec.

Press dic options button again, till the TIRE TRAINING msg appears.

Press dic reset button till the LEARN L FRONT TIRE msg appears.

Put magnet tool on the left front valve.

The horn will sound indicating LF pressure sensor is programmed. repeat
magnet

procedure on tires as follows:

goto RF

goto RR

goto LR

Sensor numbers

1997 - 2000 10438853

2001 - 2002 (25648293) new number 25731358

Sensor numbers 7-6-02

1997 - 2000 10438853 ($ 99.45 $140.87) $81.67 - $46.55 25731358

--
Dad
04 C5 CE Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

"John Smith" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message
news:Q1ajc.26620$Dn1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...

[John Smith]

Where can I find this type of magnet?

Thanks,
Mike

"Dad" <knoc...@fish.net> wrote in message

news:prqdnRZZuaq...@bright.net...

[Tedd Riggs]

If the local dealer is nice, sometimes you can borrow one from them.
Some of the Higher Tech Toy stores have them and also check in the fishing
department of a sport store as they are used to pull up "hidden treasures"

Or my favorite "Tedd Toy Store" (Edmund Scientific)
http://scientificsonline.com/default.asp?sid=OVERTURE&EID=OVT0255&bhcd2=1082995342

My guess is these will work OK "N & S Marked Alnico Bar Magnets"
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3037908

If not, these will work for sure:"Alnico School Grade Horseshoe Magnets"
http://scientificsonline.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_3038170

Or via the phone at: 1-800-728-6999

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"John Smith" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message
news:haajc.26621$Dn1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...

[John Smith]

Thanks for the help. This is much nicer than having to wait at the
dealership!

Thanks again,

Mike
"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message

news:3xajc.43017$G_.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

[John Smith]

Tedd,
Thanks for the magnet idea (two individual magnets worked). But, it didn't
solve my problem. The system recognized the sensor (I was told the sensor
is new), but the system still doesn't get a reading from that tire. What
receives that signal? Could that be the problem? Any ideas?

Thanks again,

Mike
"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message

news:3xajc.43017$G_.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

[Tedd Riggs]

John,
Do the other tire sensors work OK ? If they do, that rules out the
expensive part which is the central radio receiver for the sensors. Sensors
are picked up by the code and frequency they transmit on as they are just
small radio transmitters. So more then likely a bad sensor. I was told by
the dealer that even if the battery is almost dead, it will still transmit
its signal saying "hey I am here" but not enough power to read the
piezoelectric sensor and send that out. Second thing that will kill the
sensor is if you or someone ever used something like "fix-a-flat" in those
spray cans. That stuff will gum up the inside of the gauge and stop it from
reading pressure changes. The dealer also suggested just letting most of the
air out of the tire, then overfilling it to around 40 pds, let the air out
again and then fill it with the correct air pressure. He said sometimes the
sensor will become "unstuck" by doing that. If your horn beeps, then the
main receiver is working, if it does not beep or all 4 sensors are dead,
then you have a expensive main receiver to replace. Both local dealers said
they have never had to do that.

Dumb question, but you are driving when you check the sensor right ? It will
not give a reading if the car is just sitting, the system is turned on once
the tire starts turning. Mine come on at most about 1 min later at speeds
above 25 mph.

If those things don't work....then about the only thing left is to get a
new sensor. Both my local dealers always carry them in stock as they said
its not to uncommon that after 4-5 years they have to be replaced, he said
most will last at least 6 years, but has had a number of 97/98 owners
needing new ones.

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"John Smith" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message

news:%wcjc.25331$hR1...@fe2.texas.rr.com...

[John Smith]

Thanks again Tedd,
It helps to know that the main receiver is not the problem. I will try to
let the air out and over pressure and re adjust air. Maybe it will help.
If not, I have a "bad" spare sensor that I can send in for repairs (thanks
to the great guys here in the group, I know where).

Thanks again,
Mike

"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message

news:Uydjc.44277$G_.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

[Dad]

Actually I use a round washer magnet found in the bottom of the new
transmission pans and just place it over the stem for a couple of seconds.

--
Dad
04 C5 CE Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd
"John Smith" <noe...@notime.com> wrote in message

news:haajc.26621$Dn1....@fe2.texas.rr.com...

[Tedd Riggs]

Dad,
You mean those basic little 3/4 inch (about) ones will work ? I thought you
had to have a two pole magnet that was fairly strong. If those things will
work, will make my job cheaper.

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"Dad" <knoc...@fish.net> wrote in message
news:nO2dnVCUcvh...@bright.net...

[Dad]

Yep, did it last night on the new one to see if they work. The washer is
about 1/4 thick 1 3/4 OD X 3/4 ID. I first used a pair of stick magnets that
are 7/19 X 7/8 X 2 that I got from Lowe's for hanging prints for the
building trades. Formed them into a "v" and set them over the stem.

--
Dad
04 C5 CE Z51
72 Shark Black/Black/4spd

"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message

news:79fjc.44531$G_.3...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...

[Tedd Riggs]

That sounds just like the ones I saw that I listed as "3/4 inch" and meant 1
3/4. Good that solves one part of this.

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"Dad" <knoc...@fish.net> wrote in message

news:B-edndk2foa...@bright.net...

[Tedd Riggs]

I cannot believe this. Went to the dealer to get the tire pressure sensor
replaced (large dealer with about 10 work bays) and they said they cannot
change it because it is to fragile and they don't have anything to break
tires down that large. But they do not seem to have a problem installing new
tires for you ! Checked with the local tire shop and they say they do this
all the time on vettes and will charge $17.50 for it and that includes
retraining the sensor. Weird !

--
Tedd Riggs
Redmond, WA

"Tedd Riggs" <tedd...@NSverizon.net> wrote in message
news:GIhjc.40663$Aq....@nwrddc03.gnilink.net...