Paint on '90-ish E30s?
Matt O'Toole
A lot of these cars are still in really good cosmetic shape, even the silver
ones. I kind of like silver cars, but they always seemd to deteriorate much
faster than non-metallic ones. So, I've always stuck with white, red, etc.,
and steered clear of silver, metallic blue, gold, etc. In particular, a lot
of mid-80s BMWs looked really horrible wihin 5 years, while my white '85
still looks great. I wonder if BMW paint improved toward 1990 or so. I
know that the later cars have clear coats, which may or may not be a good
thing. I'd like to know that a car I buy in the next few months, still
looking good, will hold up another 5 years. Does anyone have any real
insight into this, particularly those in the paint/body business?
Matt O.
John Burns
Every car I buy I clean with Zymol HD-Cleanse, makes a huge difference
and is worth every penny. You can actually feel the difference in the
paint when you run a cloth over it.
--
Who needs a life when you've got Unix? :-)
Email: jo...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk, John G.Burns B.Eng, Bonny Scotland
Web : http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk - The Ultimate BMW Homepage!
Need Sun or HP Unix kit? http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/unix.html
John Matheson
Red is generally worse than metallics. Most ten year old red cars have
completely stuffed paint (not a bmw specific comment).
Tondelayo
literature, which includes news about paint finishes.
Metallic finishes have traditionally been made with suspended aluminum flakes
in the paint to give the "metallic" sparkle. Aluminum oxidizes, so a
protective clear coat is necessary over the paint itself to prevent the dull,
washed out look charateristic of weathered old aluminum screen doors.
Unfortunately, polishes [which always contain abrasives] and combination
waxes [which may contain abrasives] meant only for solid colors have been
inappropriately used on clear coated finishes, scratching down through the
clear coat and exposing the metallic paint underneath to the elements.
Automatic car washes have also contributed to the early demise of metallic
finishes... brushes which are too abrasive are the culprits here.
If one used only products specifically designed for clear-coat metallic
finishes, and used them at proper intervals, the metallic finishes can look
beautiful througout their lifetimes.
If you're considering a metallic-finished car, look at the car in the dark
with a "raking" light held almost at 90 degrees to the paint so you can see
if there are noticeable fine or deep scratches in the finish. If so, there's
the beginning of problems.
Zymol and many others now make products specifically safe for clearcoat paint
jobs... which is all you'd ever want to use, or have someone else use, to
clean and wax such a vehicle.
Newer "metallic" and similar finishes may contain microscopic flakes of glass
rather than aluminum, and so may prove much more durable.
However, these paint jobs don't have a long record in the real world, since
they've only been available for approximately two years.
Hope some of this info helps,
---John
In article <KAxv5.16420$sA.45...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rob Jack
his hair with the other hand said....
>
> Every car I buy I clean with Zymol HD-Cleanse, makes a huge difference
> and is worth every penny. You can actually feel the difference in the
> paint when you run a cloth over it.
Who stocks it in the UK ...and what does it actually do?
Regards
Rob
--
John Burns
See http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/zymol.html
I think the UK contact is 01752 252426 but it may have changed recently.
The stuff is expensive but worth it. You MUST use it correctly for best
results and it's a god idea to go and buy a few cotton towels for car
use only.
Ranald I. Macpherson
<john...@internode.on.net> writes
>
>Red is generally worse than metallics. Most ten year old red cars have
>completely stuffed paint (not a bmw specific comment).
Every ten year old + red BM I see is like this. The paint fades. It
must be the paint reacting with the light, (not that there's much light
in Scotland . . .)
--
Ranald I. Macpherson
John Burns
> must be the paint reacting with the light, (not that there's much light
> in Scotland . . .)
It's MUCH worse on 10 year old VWs. I used HD-cleanse on my mate's VW
and it went from whitish pink to bright red, he was amazed!
I bought an '89 318i oturing whichwas white. Paint had never been
cleansed or T-cut by the look of it, HD-cleanse really brought the shine
back and made the paint look like new.
Matt O'Toole
"John Burns" <jo...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:39C15B...@unixnerd.demon.co.uk...
> > Every ten year old + red BM I see is like this. The paint fades. It
> > must be the paint reacting with the light, (not that there's much light
> > in Scotland . . .)
>
> It's MUCH worse on 10 year old VWs. I used HD-cleanse on my mate's VW
> and it went from whitish pink to bright red, he was amazed!
>
> I bought an '89 318i oturing whichwas white. Paint had never been
> cleansed or T-cut by the look of it, HD-cleanse really brought the shine
> back and made the paint look like new.
So, back to the original question: should I stick to white for a 9-10 year
old BMW, or were the other colors pretty good by this time, particularly
silver? I've also noticed a lot of ugly red cars, but maybe by '90 they
were OK?
Also, have you used any other paint cleansers to compare the Zymol to? I
might pick up a bottle this week. My paint is full of sooty, greasy crap
from over a month of heavy freeway traffic with no washing, and really needs
a good cleaning. I'm kind of lucky, I have an auto detailer's supply right
around the corner, with anything on the market to choose from!
Matt O.
b...@my-deja.com
to? I
> might pick up a bottle this week. My paint is full of sooty, greasy
crap
> from over a month of heavy freeway traffic with no washing, and
really needs
> a good cleaning. I'm kind of lucky, I have an auto detailer's supply
right
> around the corner, with anything on the market to choose from!
>
Try Mother's Clay Bar. Its a 3 step process but can really revitalize
a paint job. First, you must wash and dry your car. Once cleaned, you
rub the car with the clay bar and detail spray. The clay picks up all
the contaminants on the paint. After you clay a small portion, you dry
it. Once you've done the car, put a good coat of wax on it. Takes
about 2-3 hours for the whole car, but gets the pick really smooth and
shiny. Brewster
b...@my-deja.com
b...@my-deja.com wrote:
By the way, the Mother's Clay Bar kit cost under $20. Again, a bit time
consuming, but worth it.
Ron Vopicka
> old BMW, or were the other colors pretty good by this time, particularly
> silver? I've also noticed a lot of ugly red cars, but maybe by '90 they
> were OK?
>
Silver???
In the 60s it sucked (Porsche)
In the 70s it sucked (Mercedes)
At least for 1990 BMWs silver metallic.... sucks.
Smartest thing to do is buy a car without german paint.
Ron
Matt O'Toole
<b...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8pu89i$uml$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <94xw5.82$3c6....@news.pacbell.net>,
> Try Mother's Clay Bar. Its a 3 step process but can really revitalize
> a paint job. First, you must wash and dry your car. Once cleaned, you
> rub the car with the clay bar and detail spray. The clay picks up all
> the contaminants on the paint. After you clay a small portion, you dry
> it. Once you've done the car, put a good coat of wax on it. Takes
> about 2-3 hours for the whole car, but gets the pick really smooth and
> shiny. Brewster
I was going to try that, but if the Zymol stuff works nearly as well, it
would be easier. BTW, the Mother's clay bar kit is about $16 at Pep boys,
less than half of what clay bar kits used to cost.
Matt O.
LiamDC
I'm not a paint expert either.
I have heard before, however, that there is/was something in the
pigment of the red paint that oxidises in sunlight. You may see this
in other makes of car with even differant colours (My father had a
light blue FIAT and that colour faded).
One common soloution is to T-cut the body paint. (Long and slow
process I'm told as I have not done it my self)
This effectively takes a layer of paint off.
With regard to repairing metallic painted cars. I used always be under
the impression that it was harder to fix Metallic paint than 'flat'
colour paint.
This misunderstanding was pointed out to me by a Panel beater (one of
the best around locally). He says that a Metallic paint is way easier
to fix than a 'flat' colour.
Think about this, how many times have you seen a car (Flat colour)
that has had a panel repaired and the paint just doesn't quite match?
Then think of a metallic colour car. They seem rare. The reason being,
according to my panel beating pal (don't ask me how I know him only to
say I'm married and my wife used to be a little careless, not any more
thank God..) Say for instance you need to respray the front wing. You
can fade the paint in half way back the front door and there is no
definated seperation between the 'new paint and the old paint. You
just laquer them both.
After this I alway will pick a metallic paint over a solid colour
(qualify this and say the metallic paint has to be a nice colour.
By the way my 318i '91 e30 has a light blue metallic colour which seem
rare enough. I have only seen one other one in my travels around my
country and of course it is in my own home town.
I think the colour looks fabulous on the car. As the car is 10 years
old it has picked up a couple of sratches which annoy me but I plan to
have the car resprayed, if I still have it (a Z3 beckons), in a
couple of years.
Regards,
LiamDC
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 03:30:03 GMT, Tondelayo <tond...@my-deja.com>
wrote:
Ranald I. Macpherson
<XXXL...@nospam.comXXX> writes
>With regard to repairing metallic painted cars. I used always be under
>the impression that it was harder to fix Metallic paint than 'flat'
>colour paint.
>This misunderstanding was pointed out to me by a Panel beater (one of
>the best around locally). He says that a Metallic paint is way easier
>to fix than a 'flat' colour.
>Think about this, how many times have you seen a car (Flat colour)
>that has had a panel repaired and the paint just doesn't quite match?
>Then think of a metallic colour car. They seem rare. The reason being,
>according to my panel beating pal (don't ask me how I know him only to
>say I'm married and my wife used to be a little careless, not any more
>thank God..) Say for instance you need to respray the front wing. You
>can fade the paint in half way back the front door and there is no
>definated seperation between the 'new paint and the old paint. You
>just laquer them both.
Maybe, but try fixing a small section for a repair on a metallic colour.
You'll never get it to match and you'll have to have the whole panel
resprayed, if not the whole car. A small repair on a matt colour is
easy enough, with a bit of time, to hide on a panel, as long as the
paint is a reasonable match.
--
Ranald I. Macpherson
LiamDC
there always a however or but? :-) ), isn't it all down to a paint
match? I would strongly argue that the paint would hve to be more than
a reasonable match. You could have the best finish possible but if the
colour match is off then the job will look crap.
Admittadly it is a lot easier to match paint now with computer codes
and computer controlled mixing machines.
I would reckon that getting the paint right is 70% of the job. Am I
wrong?
I have a couple of paint chips on the bonnet (read 'hood' for you
Americans) of my car, which I intend to get repaired. When I do I will
definately get a complete panel respray. Even if the car was a solid
colour (non metallic) I would more than likely get a full panel
respray any way.
Regard,
LiamDC
Ranald I. Macpherson
<XXXL...@nospam.comXXX> writes
>I agree with what your saying on the small repairs, however (isn't
>there always a however or but? :-) ), isn't it all down to a paint
>match? I would strongly argue that the paint would hve to be more than
>a reasonable match. You could have the best finish possible but if the
>colour match is off then the job will look crap.
>
>Admittadly it is a lot easier to match paint now with computer codes
>and computer controlled mixing machines.
>I would reckon that getting the paint right is 70% of the job. Am I
>wrong?
No, not at all! Having once bought the precise factory paint for an old
Saab Turbo to do a repair on, then found having painted it that the car
must have been resprayed at some point so the paint *didn't* match, I
entirely agree.
>On Mon, 18 Sep 2000 22:19:16 +0100, "Ranald I. Macpherson"
><ran...@smartmac.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>Maybe, but try fixing a small section for a repair on a metallic colour.
>>You'll never get it to match and you'll have to have the whole panel
>>resprayed, if not the whole car. A small repair on a matt colour is
>>easy enough, with a bit of time, to hide on a panel, as long as the
>>paint is a reasonable match.
>
--
Ranald I. Macpherson
postoffice.pacbell.net
http://Colorshift.com/index.phtml?c=auto_gallery.phtml&s_head=head.phtml?s=A
utoGallery
This is what I was referring to... the color-shifting paint jobs such as
seen on Ford Mustang and some other vehicles... not Fiberglass®.
It's a neat site.
---John
in article 8FBDBE683gr...@24.64.2.57, Mr. Grinch at gri...@home.com
wrote on 9/28/00 5:19 PM, in part:
>>> Newer "metallic" and similar finishes may contain microscopic flakes of
>>> glass rather than aluminum, and so may prove much more durable.
>
> I'm guessing you're refering to something besides mica here?
>
>>> However, these paint jobs don't have a long record in the real world,
>>> since they've only been available for approximately two years.
>
> Glass embedded in paint may be new to cars, but certainly not on roads or
> boats.
Mr. Grinch
<9sibssofpjqrbir4q...@4ax.com>:
>Hi,
>I'm not a paint expert either.
>I have heard before, however, that there is/was something in the
>pigment of the red paint that oxidises in sunlight. You may see this
>in other makes of car with even differant colours (My father had a
>light blue FIAT and that colour faded).
You bet. As far as UV goes, the strongest paint is white.
>This misunderstanding was pointed out to me by a Panel beater (one of
>the best around locally). He says that a Metallic paint is way easier
>to fix than a 'flat' colour.
>Think about this, how many times have you seen a car (Flat colour)
>that has had a panel repaired and the paint just doesn't quite match?
>Then think of a metallic colour car. They seem rare. The reason being,
>according to my panel beating pal (don't ask me how I know him only to
>say I'm married and my wife used to be a little careless, not any more
>thank God..) Say for instance you need to respray the front wing. You
>can fade the paint in half way back the front door and there is no
>definated seperation between the 'new paint and the old paint. You
>just laquer them both.
Almost all paint jobs do entire panel(s) and don't do much fade in.
Problem with metalics is similar, but instead of just trying to match the
pigment, you are also trying to match the metalic density. Either case, a
sharp eye will see the difference. Not to mention even more obvious
differences like the gloss of the laquer or orange peel.
If you're serious about a match, you can get a paint analysis laser and get
a much better match than just using the paint code off the door jam. It
also helps to know how various cars are painted at factory.
>After this I alway will pick a metallic paint over a solid colour
>(qualify this and say the metallic paint has to be a nice colour.
Pretty hard to find any paint easier to match than white or black.
>Regards,
>LiamDC
>
>On Wed, 13 Sep 2000 03:30:03 GMT, Tondelayo <tond...@my-deja.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Well, I'm not in the paint business, but I do read the auto magazines
>>and literature, which includes news about paint finishes.
>>
>>Metallic finishes have traditionally been made with suspended aluminum
>>flakes in the paint to give the "metallic" sparkle. Aluminum oxidizes,
>>so a protective clear coat is necessary over the paint itself to
>>prevent the dull, washed out look charateristic of weathered old
>>aluminum screen doors.
You bet... and silver, which has the highest percentage of particles, also
tends to be the fastest to oxidize and look dull. But, they also use a
_lot_ of mica. Maybe someone else can comment on mica's resistance to UV.
>>Automatic car washes have also contributed to the early demise of
>>metallic finishes... brushes which are too abrasive are the culprits
>>here.
Just say NO to automatic car washes.
>>
>>If one used only products specifically designed for clear-coat metallic
>>finishes, and used them at proper intervals, the metallic finishes can
>>look beautiful througout their lifetimes.
Except as noted, UV oxidation is much accelerated for silver paint jobs.
>>If you're considering a metallic-finished car, look at the car in the
>>dark with a "raking" light held almost at 90 degrees to the paint so
>>you can see if there are noticeable fine or deep scratches in the
>>finish. If so, there's the beginning of problems.
>>
>>Zymol and many others now make products specifically safe for clearcoat
>>paint jobs... which is all you'd ever want to use, or have someone else
>>use, to clean and wax such a vehicle.
>>
>>Newer "metallic" and similar finishes may contain microscopic flakes of
>>glass rather than aluminum, and so may prove much more durable.
I'm guessing you're refering to something besides mica here?
>>However, these paint jobs don't have a long record in the real world,
>>since they've only been available for approximately two years.
Glass embedded in paint may be new to cars, but certainly not on roads or
boats.
>>Hope some of this info helps,
>>---John
>>In article <KAxv5.16420$sA.45...@nnrp5-w.sbc.net>,
>> "Matt O'Toole" <ma...@deltanet.com> wrote:
>>> I'm thinking of buying a slightly newer E30, iether a 318is/325is, or
>>> an M3. A lot of these cars are still in really good cosmetic shape,
>>> even the silver ones. I kind of like silver cars, but they always
>>> seemd to deteriorate much faster than non-metallic ones. So, I've
>>> always stuck with white, red, etc., and steered clear of silver,
>>> metallic blue, gold, etc. In particular, a lot of mid-80s BMWs
>>> looked really horrible wihin 5 years, while my white '85 still looks
>>> great. I wonder if BMW paint improved toward 1990 or so. I know
>>> that the later cars have clear coats, which may or may not be a good
>>> thing. I'd like to know that a car I buy in the next few months,
>>> still looking good, will hold up another 5 years. Does anyone have
>>> any real insight into this, particularly those in the paint/body
>>> business?
Pretty much all cars have clear coats now. The straight enamel paint jobs
used to be cheaper, but they did take much longer to set, which was an
added cost. Factories brought the cost of acrylic laquer jobs to the point
where painting with enamel really wasn't cheaper. Enamel was tougher, but
now they use powder coat / electrostatic assemblies to paint parts like
engines and wheels that need a durable finish.
Like you, I've got a white car, '95, that many people think is brand new.
If my deposit for an E46 M3 ever comes through with a real allocation, I
think I'm gonna go white again, because I hope to keep the car as long as
possible.
Mr. Grinch
<in6ess0jc0eafgte2...@4ax.com>:
>I agree with what your saying on the small repairs, however (isn't
>there always a however or but? :-) ), isn't it all down to a paint
>match? I would strongly argue that the paint would hve to be more than
>a reasonable match. You could have the best finish possible but if the
>colour match is off then the job will look crap.
>
>Admittadly it is a lot easier to match paint now with computer codes
>and computer controlled mixing machines.
>I would reckon that getting the paint right is 70% of the job. Am I
>wrong?
Laser analysis can get a closer match and compensate for fade... if you
know how to use the tools right and know the paint products you're working
with.
The thing is with paint, is there are _so_ many variables. The match. The
quality of the product, how well the surface is prepped, masking properly,
the environment, free of dust, right temperature, humidity, ventilation, a
skilled steady hand doing the painting, curing, and buffing out the job
after.
Mr. Grinch
>You'll need a Flash player to see this site, but check out:
>
>http://Colorshift.com/index.phtml?c=auto_gallery.phtml&s_head=head.phtml?
>s=A utoGallery
>
>This is what I was referring to... the color-shifting paint jobs such as
>seen on Ford Mustang and some other vehicles... not Fiberglass®.
>
>It's a neat site.
BMW has at least one color like this... Techno Violet