Small Format Mixers

[Steve M]

Looking to replace my Soundcraft Spirit mixer. It has served me well for 20
years,
but two channels have gone South and it's time for a new one
So, looking for recommendations on mixers w/ 10-12 channels under $500 USD.
What's the deal with Yamaha MG series? Any good? My experience with Yammy
consoles only includes the old 2404, M7CL, and PM series in analog and
digital form.
Considering Soundcraft, A & H, or Yamaha as possible purchase.

TIA

--
Steve McQ

[Gareth Magennis]

"Steve M" <mcste...@verizon.not> wrote in message
news:joo5q4$5r3$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

There is a physical design problem (IMHO) with these mixers, in that the
front panel holes that the knobs poke through are bigger than the knobs
themselves.
This means that if anything heavy drops onto the desk, the knobs are pushed
through the front panel and the PCB cracks.

I have had two brought to me with this problem, one actually had 2 cracked
PCB's.
I have also seen quite a few of these on Ebay with what is probably the
same problem. (could be an easy fix, they say. Er, no.)


But so long as you don't drop any speakers on them, or sit on them, or you
have them in a home studio, this really isn't much of a concern I guess.



Gareth.

[Steve M]

"Gareth Magennis" <sound....@btconnect.com> wrote:
> There is a physical design problem (IMHO) with these mixers, in that the
> front panel holes that the knobs poke through are bigger than the knobs
> themselves.
> This means that if anything heavy drops onto the desk, the knobs are
> pushed through the front panel and the PCB cracks.
>
> I have had two brought to me with this problem, one actually had 2 cracked
> PCB's.
> I have also seen quite a few of these on Ebay with what is probably the
> same problem. (could be an easy fix, they say. Er, no.)
>
>
> But so long as you don't drop any speakers on them, or sit on them, or you
> have them in a home studio, this really isn't much of a concern I guess.
>

Thanks, Gareth
Well, since this is for rental purposes and I won't always be there to
"babysit"
I guess it's a no go. Aside from that issue, how do they measure up in build
quality and actual sound? Would you choose a small Soundcraft over the
Yammies?

--
Steve McQ

[Gareth Magennis]

"Steve M" <mcste...@verizon.not> wrote in message

news:jooboo$jmm$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Can't really comment on the sound quality as I just repaired the things and
did no proper listening tests, but I'm not impressed with build quality, or
how it "feels".
It feels kind of disappointing for a Yamaha, though thats a rather
subjective reaction not based upon any pricing knowledge/comparison.

Also I seem to recall there is no PFL LED, and the "compressor" on the mic
channels seems kind of weird, but again no proper listening tests done.


Just had a quick look and there is also the MGP series, which looks like
they may not have this silly knob issue - maybe you could go take a look at
some and see which ones do and which don't, before writing them off
completely.


Gareth.

[Sean Conolly]

"Steve M" <mcste...@verizon.not> wrote in message

news:joo5q4$5r3$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

I've frequently used several models of the MG series (since they're cheap
and easy to find in MI stores), and all have one deal breaker for me: the
preamp inputs are very easy to overload. Even turning the trim all the way
down isn't enough for a strong singer with an SM58, you need a pad or you
will get audible clipping. Some models have 'limiters' on each channel,
which is after the preamp so it doesn't help.

On the other hand they are durable and the EQs sound better than average (to
me at least), but I just can't accept the mic input problems.

Sean

[geoff]

Sean Conolly wrote:
.
>
> I've frequently used several models of the MG series (since they're
> cheap and easy to find in MI stores), and all have one deal breaker
> for me: the preamp inputs are very easy to overload. Even turning the
> trim all the way down isn't enough for a strong singer with an SM58,
> you need a pad or you will get audible clipping.

Are you sure it wasn't broken - maybe a power-supply problem. I've got some
crappy cheap Phonics and Altos that don't do that !

geoff

[Sean Conolly]

"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:ppidndfxmc1gIi_S...@giganews.com...

Quite certain - this is across maybe a dozen different units of different
sizes over the last eight years. Every single example I've used or heard
used had the same problem if the singer knew how to really sing from the
diaphagm.

Honestly, the best improvement that Yamaha could do is to drop the 'limiter'
switch and use the space for a real pad of about 15 db.

Sean

[DanielleOM]

I tried a small MG series mixer and took it back within hours of
bringing it home. Not sure if there was something wrong with it or
not. Ended up buying and keeping a Soundcraft EFX8 that we are still
happy with. A friend recently used a tiny Soundcraft mono 4 channel
mixer and was happy using it.


Danielle

[Denny Strauser]

On 5/13/2012 7:27 AM, Steve M wrote:
> Looking to replace my Soundcraft Spirit mixer. It has served me well for 20
> years,
> but two channels have gone South and it's time for a new one
> So, looking for recommendations on mixers w/ 10-12 channels under $500 USD.
> What's the deal with Yamaha MG series? Any good? My experience with Yammy
> consoles only includes the old 2404, M7CL, and PM series in analog and
> digital form.

> Considering Soundcraft, A& H, or Yamaha as possible purchase.
> Steve McQ

If you are willing to spend more than $500, I recommend an A&H Mix Wiz.
16 channels; 4 band EQ (sweepable mids); 6 auxes; rack mountable; + more
...
I've seen many pro bands using these for in-ear monitors.
I've seen internet prices for a new one for about $900, and used ones
for about $700.
This is a rugged board which will last a long time. Long-time return on
investment will likely be more attractive than a cheaper board.
Just my humble opinion.

- Denny

[Ron]

On 19/05/2012 05:36, Denny Strauser wrote:
> On 5/13/2012 7:27 AM, Steve M wrote:
>> Looking to replace my Soundcraft Spirit mixer. It has served me well
>> for 20
>> years,
>> but two channels have gone South and it's time for a new one
>> So, looking for recommendations on mixers w/ 10-12 channels under $500
>> USD.
>> What's the deal with Yamaha MG series? Any good? My experience with Yammy
>> consoles only includes the old 2404, M7CL, and PM series in analog and
>> digital form.
>> Considering Soundcraft, A& H, or Yamaha as possible purchase.
>> Steve McQ
>
> If you are willing to spend more than $500, I recommend an A&H Mix Wiz.
> 16 channels; 4 band EQ (sweepable mids); 6 auxes; rack mountable; + more

> ....

> I've seen many pro bands using these for in-ear monitors.
> I've seen internet prices for a new one for about $900, and used ones
> for about $700.
> This is a rugged board which will last a long time. Long-time return on
> investment will likely be more attractive than a cheaper board.
> Just my humble opinion.
>
> - Denny

I have to agree with Denny, the Mixwiz is a good investment, as is the
Soundcraft GB2R which IMO is a slightly sweeter sounding desk tho
possibly not quite as mechanically rugged.
I own a Mixwizard, but if I were buying a new desk I would probably
plump for the Soundcraft even tho it doesn't feature built in effects.

Ron

[Sean Conolly]

"DanielleOM" <danie...@reply.to.group.com> wrote in message
news:jp5udi$ig3$1...@dont-email.me...

Does the Soundcraft look like this?
http://www.pyleaudio.com/sku/PEMP8/8-Channel-Mixer-With-RCAXLR8-TRS-Line-Inputs,-LED-Indicators,-3-Band-EQ


Sean

[Richard Webb]

On Sat 2012-May-19 05:44, Ron writes:
>> If you are willing to spend more than $500, I recommend an A&H Mix Wiz.
>> 16 channels; 4 band EQ (sweepable mids); 6 auxes; rack mountable; + more

>> I've seen many pro bands using these for in-ear monitors.
>> I've seen internet prices for a new one for about $900, and used ones
>> for about $700.
>> This is a rugged board which will last a long time. Long-time return on
>> investment will likely be more attractive than a cheaper board.
>> Just my humble opinion.

> I have to agree with Denny, the Mixwiz is a good investment, as is
> the Soundcraft GB2R which IMO is a slightly sweeter sounding desk
> tho possibly not quite as mechanically rugged.
> I own a Mixwizard, but if I were buying a new desk I would probably
> plump for the Soundcraft even tho it doesn't feature built in
> effects.

YEah but if this is for dry hire I'd spring for the A & H.
It's a darned rugged desk, and I've actually liked them
better than the small format yamahas, or a lot of other
things a guy can get in that price range. Good gear, made
by people who same to have a grasp of what this stuff's
going to see out there in the world of hard knocks. Built
in effects are nice, more gear you don't have to haul, but
if a small rack of effects doesn't bother you and you
really want rugged for hiring out etc. I'd tell folks to
carry the small rack of fx or even charge 'em extra to rent
one, and have a very good rugged console that won't
disappoint the ears. That's me though. As they say, ymmv.


Regards,
Richard
... Remote audio in the southland: See www.gatasound.com
--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet<->Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Ron]

On 20/05/2012 04:26, Richard Webb wrote:
> On Sat 2012-May-19 05:44, Ron writes:
>>> If you are willing to spend more than $500, I recommend an A&H Mix Wiz.
>>> 16 channels; 4 band EQ (sweepable mids); 6 auxes; rack mountable; + more
>>> I've seen many pro bands using these for in-ear monitors.
>>> I've seen internet prices for a new one for about $900, and used ones
>>> for about $700.
>>> This is a rugged board which will last a long time. Long-time return on
>>> investment will likely be more attractive than a cheaper board.
>>> Just my humble opinion.
>> I have to agree with Denny, the Mixwiz is a good investment, as is
>> the Soundcraft GB2R which IMO is a slightly sweeter sounding desk
>> tho possibly not quite as mechanically rugged.
>> I own a Mixwizard, but if I were buying a new desk I would probably
>> plump for the Soundcraft even tho it doesn't feature built in
>> effects.
>

> YEah but if this is for dry hire I'd spring for the A& H.

> It's a darned rugged desk, and I've actually liked them
> better than the small format yamahas, or a lot of other
> things a guy can get in that price range. Good gear, made
> by people who same to have a grasp of what this stuff's
> going to see out there in the world of hard knocks. Built
> in effects are nice, more gear you don't have to haul, but
> if a small rack of effects doesn't bother you and you
> really want rugged for hiring out etc. I'd tell folks to
> carry the small rack of fx or even charge 'em extra to rent
> one, and have a very good rugged console that won't
> disappoint the ears. That's me though. As they say, ymmv.

Oh I quite agree. Another plus with the Mixwiz is that they are simple
to repair should something go wrong.

Ron

[Richard Webb]

On Sun 2012-May-20 06:20, Ron writes:
> On 20/05/2012 04:26, Richard Webb wrote:
>> YEah but if this is for dry hire I'd spring for the A& H.
>> It's a darned rugged desk, and I've actually liked them
>> better than the small format yamahas, or a lot of other
>> things a guy can get in that price range. Good gear, made

>> by people who seem to have a grasp of what this stuff's

>> going to see out there in the world of hard knocks. Built
>> in effects are nice, more gear you don't have to haul, but
>> if a small rack of effects doesn't bother you and you
>> really want rugged for hiring out etc. I'd tell folks to
>> carry the small rack of fx or even charge 'em extra to rent
>> one, and have a very good rugged console that won't
>> disappoint the ears. That's me though. As they say, ymmv.

> Oh I quite agree. Another plus with the Mixwiz is that they are
> simple to repair should something go wrong.

WAs thinkign about taht too, and would when makign such a
choice. YOu lews the gewgaws and doodads, but you gain in
durability and flexibility. Toys and extras are nice, but
reliability when it's for the money and decent handling of
signals coming into it before they leave trump about
anything in my book.

Regards,
Richard

[Steve M]

"Denny Strauser"wrote in message news:jp780q$30o$1...@dont-email.me...

> If you are willing to spend more than $500, I recommend an A&H Mix Wiz.
> 16 channels; 4 band EQ (sweepable mids); 6 auxes; rack mountable; + more

I already have two of them, plus a WZ3 12m monitor board.

That's why I wrote:
> looking for recommendations on mixers w/ 10-12 channels under $500 USD
>

I often have a need for just a few channels and want something small and
very portable
that doesn't have as large a footprint as the MixWiz.
At this point, I'm leaning toward an A+H Zed 12 or 14

--
Steve McQ

[DanielleOM]

It looks similar. The EFX8 unit has lexicon effects.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EFX8/

FYI, the soundcraft site is pretty good for documentation and
downloadable manuals.


Danielle

[Phil W]

"DanielleOM":

> It looks similar. The EFX8 unit has lexicon effects.
>
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/EFX8/
>
> FYI, the soundcraft site is pretty good for documentation and downloadable
> manuals.

So good, that you preferred to link to a store website, rather than
Soundcraft愀 product page? ;-)

http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=148

SCNR

[DanielleOM]

On 5/19/2012 2:44 PM, Sean Conolly wrote:

FYI, I found an interesting thread re Pyle and Soundcraft at the
following site: http://www.audiobanter.com/showthread.php?t=122365

Danielle

[Audio1]

I find dealer web pages frequently more informative on a 'just looking'
basis than the manufacturer. For one thing I get a much quicker idea of
how much it will cost and they often have links directly to manuals
where manufacturers sometimes make you click through more hoops for
reasons I don't understand but their marketing droids seem to think are
important.

[Denny Strauser]

On 5/22/2012 7:58 AM, Audio1 wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 5:00 AM, Phil W wrote:
>> "DanielleOM":

>> So good, that you preferred to link to a store website, rather than
>> Soundcraft愀 product page? ;-)
>>
>> http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=148
>>
>> SCNR
>
> I find dealer web pages frequently more informative on a 'just looking'
> basis than the manufacturer. For one thing I get a much quicker idea of
> how much it will cost and they often have links directly to manuals
> where manufacturers sometimes make you click through more hoops for
> reasons I don't understand but their marketing droids seem to think are
> important.

I always check out manufacturer websites first for specs. Then I run a
general search for prices. Specs are always my first consideration.
Price is important, but I want to know what the item can do before I
even consider cost. Dealer pages are seldom more informative.

- Denny

[Sean Conolly]

"DanielleOM" <danie...@reply.to.group.com> wrote in message

news:jpfrhl$qov$1...@dont-email.me...

Heh, yes I have brought this up before :-)

Sean

[Audio1]

Dealer web pages give a quick comparison between multiple brands, many
times on the same web page. Once I know what's available I can worry
about specs. By going to only one manufacturer you run the risk of not
getting the optimum solution, also possible with a dealer site but much
less likely.

I almost compromised and bought a Whirlwind rack mount mixer for a
project, then found an Ashley that had the features I really wanted for
very little more money, all by looking at a dealer's web page.

[Flint]

The MixWiz is a much better board for not much more money, but I've
found this one to be the sweetest sounding board in the analog
rackmixer class. Of course, they are way over the OP's budget:

http://apb-dynasonics.com/products/Products_ProRackHouse.html

Very well made, and extremely easy to field service if need be. I
own/use the monitor version of this board and I *love* it. The
monitor version has two real nice features I find rare in this
mixer format, if at all - 1> individual channel ground lifts 2>
horizontal 'slider' pans on each monitor mix for a total of 8 stereo
IEM mixes if need be.

--
MFB

[Flint]

I'd like one of these new Venice boards, myself:

http://www.midasconsoles.com/veniceu.php#!prettyPhoto

--
MFB

[Sean Conolly]

"Flint" <agen...@section31.org> wrote in message
news:jpkhbj$me7$1...@dont-email.me...

Thanks for posting that link - I've seen it before but couldn't remember the
company.

Apparently some of the head engineers came from Crest, and the board in the
link looks like an XR20 on steroids. Maybe I should say an XR20 with all the
extra features I wish mine had :-)

Sean

[Phil W]

"Audio1":

Well, I seem to frequent the wrong dealer web pages then. My personal
experience is rather, that shop pages too often have wrong information
(probably due to sloppy copy & paste) and links to manuals are either
lacking or for other models.
That愀 why I prefer going as directly to the source as possible. I mistrust
the marketing droids of the shops more, than those of the manufacturer.

[Flint]

I particularly love the large illuminated solo/mute buttons that an
older geezer like me can see on APB's rackmixers.

I was rather torn between it and an A&H GL2800M, but since A&H disco'd
it, it came down to buying either a used, or B stock desk, or a couple
of these. Since I can buy a couple of APB 16 ProRack monitor input
rackmixers (brand new) at around the same price as a 32 input GL2800M,
but APB are still produced/supported, the decision was a no brainer
for me. The fact that Crest engineers designed the thing was a plus too.

--
MFB

[ckoz...@snet.net]

I thought this thread concerned SMALL format mixers. Calling the GL2800M small is like calling the 747 a 'regional commuter'!

Now the 1202 or 1402VLZ - those are what I call 'small format' - unless I'm really missing something here.

[Ron]

On 28/05/2012 16:34, ckoz...@snet.net wrote:
> I thought this thread concerned SMALL format mixers. Calling the GL2800M small is like calling the 747 a 'regional commuter'!
>
> Now the 1202 or 1402VLZ - those are what I call 'small format' - unless I'm really missing something here.

They are Mackies, they barely qualify as mixers -

> Dives for cover... <

Ron

[ckoz...@snet.net]

HullO! I was providing examples of their form factor - as in *small* - as opposed to the console referenced prior which could have its own zipcode! lol

[Richard Webb]

On Mon 2012-May-28 13:44, Ron writes:
>> Now the 1202 or 1402VLZ - those are what I call 'small format' - unless I'm
>> really missing something here.


> They are Mackies, they barely qualify as mixers -

<rotflmao!!!> Would agree, but in this price range at that
size the 1202 isn't as bad as a lot of what's available
within those parameters. Just don't bother with the eq, and consider yellow as red, and you can get usable sound out of
one.

I kept a 1202vlz in a rack with some power amps etc. just
for loan to my church etc. for a long time, or as a stage
mixerfor a bunch of synth modules, etc.

[Denny Strauser]

On 5/28/2012 8:29 PM, Richard Webb wrote:
> On Mon 2012-May-28 13:44, Ron writes:
>>> Now the 1202 or 1402VLZ - those are what I call 'small format' - unless I'm
>>> really missing something here.
>
>
>> They are Mackies, they barely qualify as mixers -
>
> <rotflmao!!!> Would agree, but in this price range at that
> size the 1202 isn't as bad as a lot of what's available
> within those parameters. Just don't bother with the eq, and consider yellow as red, and you can get usable sound out of
> one.
>
> I kept a 1202vlz in a rack with some power amps etc. just
> for loan to my church etc. for a long time, or as a stage
> mixerfor a bunch of synth modules, etc.

A number of years ago, I was at the Hoard Fest with Blues Traveler, Neil
Young, Lenny Kravitz & Rusted Root on the main stage. The stereo outputs
from Neil Young, Lenny Kravitz & Rusted Root went through a small
Mackie, which was fed into Blues Traveler's console. Mackie boards are
clean. The EQ's suck. And they have poor shielding, which becomes
obvious if a cell phone is near the console.

- Denny

[Flint]

On 5/28/2012 11:34 AM, ckoz...@snet.net wrote:
> I thought this thread concerned SMALL format mixers. Calling the GL2800M small is like calling the 747 a 'regional commuter'!
>
> Now the 1202 or 1402VLZ - those are what I call 'small format' - unless I'm really missing something here.

Who's calling the GL2800M a "small format" mixer? Not me...

--
MFB

[Flint]

On 5/28/2012 4:52 PM, ckoz...@snet.net wrote:
> HullO! I was providing examples of their form factor - as in *small* - as opposed to the console referenced prior which could have its own zipcode! lol

Well, 1> inadequate crappola mixers don't deserve the title of
"mixer", and 2> "small" is being rather subjectively defined here, if
not an outright co-opting of the term. Traditionally, "Small" format
mixers included even mixers such as A&H's GL series desk mixers, or
most mixers w/24 inputs or less, as well as rack mixers.

The problem appears to have been one of a lack of conciseness. It
appears what was asked about was more of a prosumer grade device of an
extra small form factor. It might have been more clearly stated with
>micro< or "mini" mixer. One can't fault others for thinking in
different form factor terms in their replies when the OP posts his
question in a >professional< live sound newsgroup.

--
MFB

[geoff]

Sounds like instead of 'pro' this newsgroup should be renamed
alt.audio.penis-size.live-sound as some appear to get off in the same way
that others (often fat,fifty. and florid) do driving around in their bloated
wagons.

geoff

[ckoz...@snet.net]

I speak PLAIN English: small means small. And I think in SIMPLE terms. So when I saw the title of this thread I figured, rack-mountable mixers, 12 to 16 channels.

Sorry if I disappointed anyone or insulted their intelligence! lol!

[Flint]

On 5/31/2012 9:04 AM, ckoz...@snet.net wrote:
> I speak PLAIN English: small means small. And I think in SIMPLE terms. So when I saw the title of this thread I figured, rack-mountable mixers, 12 to 16 channels.
>
> Sorry if I disappointed anyone or insulted their intelligence! lol!

No need to apologize. I tend to think the same - "small format" =
rack-mount mixers. I wasn't calling the GL2800M a small format mixer,
although it is a rather 'smallish' desk, especially in the 24 input
frame size as it's not bigger than my two APB ProRack monitor
rack-mixers (but provide 32 Ch-inputs). My mentioning the GL2800M
wasn't any recommendation either, but simply what I was trying to
decide on between it and the ProRacks (which I was recommending).

One thing I have noticed is that in more recent years, there seems to
have been a somewhat co-opting of the term "rack mixer" as meaning
anything small enough to simply fit into a rack, while others tend to
view rack >mountable< as being a mil-spec type mounting with standard
19" width and mounting ears, and I/O connectors on the >backside<
rather than the top rear edge of a desk >surface< like a lot of
smallish prosumer grade devices.

--
MFB

[Steve M]

Allen and Heath ZED12 FX arrived today. Scored for just over 400USD.
Drop shipped direct to my house. That's service.
Looks good. Feels solid. Will have a little review test drive soon.
First thing I noticed that's unusual is the phantom switch is recessed and
you
need a pointy implement to engage/disengage. Odd, and not ergonomically
convenient. It isn't in a really intuitive spot on the faceplate, either.
Minor
quibbles, I guess...

--
Steve McQ

[Gareth Magennis]

"Steve M" <mcstev...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:jqbd8q$nio$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

The Phantom Power Switch is not something you will be ever be needing to
access during a gig.
If you do inadvertently access this switch during a gig requiring phantom
power, you are likely to either lose one or more mic channels, or several
speakers. Possibly both.

Probably best, then, that you need a pointy stick to operate it.


Gareth.

[Steve M]

"Gareth Magennis" wrote:
> The Phantom Power Switch is not something you will be ever be needing to
> access during a gig.
>

I know this. I was probably doing live audio when you were in diapers.
But, thanks for your expert opinion, anyway ;-).

--
Steve McQ

[Gareth Magennis]

"Steve M" <mcstev...@verizon.net> wrote in message

news:jqbfnp$tok$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

So why are you complaining about it then?



Gareth.

[Steve M]

"Gareth Magennis" wrote:
> So why are you complaining about it then?
>

I want you to quote the part where I obviously "complained" about anything.
It seems you may have been unable to comprehend this (which I absolutely
*did* write)

[Les Cargill]

Inaccessibility of the phantom switch is a feature, not a bug. I just
hope the ZED16 lives long enough for me to need one - the ADAT ports
are the stuff of fever dreams...

I fervently hope that somebody at A&H has seen "Pulp Fiction"....


> --
> Steve McQ
>
>

--
Les Cargill

[ckoz...@snet.net]

Your sarcastic response about someone still in diapers when you were doing audio. Someone was just being helpful(phantom power??) and you wiped your ungrateful ASS with them!

We just don't need this ATTITUDE that seems to pervade this newsgroup.

[Steve M]

Let me know which part of your above reply is the bit I'm supposed to give a
shit about.
I'll bet you were in diapers or possibly not even alive when I worked my
first paying gig.

I gave a cursory review of an item I purchased and mentioned a small thing I
found to be different from
the majority of consoles I've worked on. I got a reply from someone who
apparently thought they should
instruct me on when and how phantom power is employed. I did not solicit,
nor do I need such instructions.

This NG is full of self-appointed know-it-alls who seem to think everyone
else knows less and has done less
than they have. The reality is that some here really do have decades of
experience and I find the frequent tone
of condescension from certain quarters laughable. Many need to simply get
over themselves.

--
Steve McQ

[ckoz...@snet.net]

On Saturday, June 2, 2012 11:31:04 AM UTC-4, Steve M wrote:


>Many need to simply get
> over themselves.

> Steve McQ
____________
Now say that in the mirror before you say it to anyone else here....

As to the rest of us here: Let's get out of the business of attacking each other and promoting personal agendas, and get back to discussing aspects of live sound reinforcement!

[geoff]

Steve M wrote:

> <ckoz...@snet.net> wrote:

> This NG is full of self-appointed know-it-alls who seem to think
> everyone else knows less and has done less
> than they have.

Ha !

The recessed phantom switch is a deliberate and debatably superior option
for a live mixer. Not unique to A&H or the Zed range.

Ball-pen is usual convenient method of operating.

geoff

[thekma...@gmail.com]

Ballpoint pen Phantom? I call that life insurance against being trampled and bludgeoned by an angry audience after mistakenly engaging(or disengaging) phantom power during a gig!
lol

[Rupert]

On Wednesday, July 11, 2012 5:31:14 AM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
> Ballpoint pen Phantom? I call that life insurance against being trampled and bludgeoned by an angry audience after mistakenly engaging(or disengaging) phantom power during a gig!
> lol

Turning phantom power on and off during a gig is not a problem. The problem is when someone hot plugs/unplugs a phantom powered mic with a channel un-muted. If turning phantom on or off was an issue, you wouldn't have easily reachable individual phantom switches on each channel of a higher end desks right next to the pad & polarity switches now would you? If you think you need a ballpoint pen to be safe with phantom power switches, you're in the wrong business.

[Rupert]

On Friday, June 1, 2012 10:12:46 PM UTC-7, Les Cargill wrote:
> Steve M wrote:
> &gt; Allen and Heath ZED12 FX arrived today. Scored for just over 400USD.
> &gt; Drop shipped direct to my house. That&#39;s service.
> &gt; Looks good. Feels solid. Will have a little review test drive soon.
> &gt; First thing I noticed that&#39;s unusual is the phantom switch is recessed and
> &gt; you
> &gt; need a pointy implement to engage/disengage. Odd, and not ergonomically
> &gt; convenient. It isn&#39;t in a really intuitive spot on the faceplate, either.
> &gt; Minor
> &gt; quibbles, I guess...
> &gt;

>
> Inaccessibility of the phantom switch is a feature, not a bug. I just

> hope the ZED16 lives long enough for me to need one <snip>

I disagree, it's a nuisance. Having a recessed switch is not going to save anything from damage once it's turned on and someone decides to start plugging or unplugging phantom powered mics without muting channels.