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DEQ2496 problem?
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JWald
Apr 27, 2012, 5:51:15 PM4/27/12
to
Hello All,
I have been experienceing an issue with, I think, my 2496. My band is
a not every weekend warrior situation, therefore my gear doesn't get
used on a constant basis. I use an A&H Mixwizard 16:2, Lexicon
effects, Behringer DEQ 2496, into QSC 3402 amps. Prior to every gig, I
do a quick pa set up in the garage to check for issues, and everytime
i have an issue with the outputs on the 2496. Generally, I get no
output to the amps. I used to think it was in the output jacks
themseves, but i have discovered that if i give a few firm pops with
my fingers to the windscreen of the mic, it kicks in and then works
fine. It's not the mic as I have switched them out and always get
signal all the way to the 2496. I split the 2496 with monitors and
mains, and have the same problem with the main side as well. As I have
2 2496's, I have changed them out, and it still does it. I have taken
the 2496's out of the chain and gone straight to the amps too; never a
problem. The garage is one thing, but it is frustrating as hell to get
to the gig and have to chase the problem EVERY time. Cables have been
checked, switched out, and are fine. Has anyone ever heard of this? Is
it a problem common to the 2496? I have thought about a Driverack, but
don't really have the resources to just throw money at an unknown.
Help? Thanks.
I have been experienceing an issue with, I think, my 2496. My band is
a not every weekend warrior situation, therefore my gear doesn't get
used on a constant basis. I use an A&H Mixwizard 16:2, Lexicon
effects, Behringer DEQ 2496, into QSC 3402 amps. Prior to every gig, I
do a quick pa set up in the garage to check for issues, and everytime
i have an issue with the outputs on the 2496. Generally, I get no
output to the amps. I used to think it was in the output jacks
themseves, but i have discovered that if i give a few firm pops with
my fingers to the windscreen of the mic, it kicks in and then works
fine. It's not the mic as I have switched them out and always get
signal all the way to the 2496. I split the 2496 with monitors and
mains, and have the same problem with the main side as well. As I have
2 2496's, I have changed them out, and it still does it. I have taken
the 2496's out of the chain and gone straight to the amps too; never a
problem. The garage is one thing, but it is frustrating as hell to get
to the gig and have to chase the problem EVERY time. Cables have been
checked, switched out, and are fine. Has anyone ever heard of this? Is
it a problem common to the 2496? I have thought about a Driverack, but
don't really have the resources to just throw money at an unknown.
Help? Thanks.
Rupert
Apr 27, 2012, 8:03:58 PM4/27/12
to
both units have the same issue. And the issue sounds like an oxidized
contact since a loud signal will close the open circuit. The likely
culprits are a bad ribbon cable contacts (if the DEQ has ribbons), a
cold solder joint, or a cracked PCB trace. When a hot enough signal
hits the bad contact point, it causes it to arc which then allows
signal to pass temporarily. I'd open the unit up and reseat any ribbon
cables if it has them (use some form of deoxidizing compound on the
connectors like Caig DeOxit). Also check for cold solder joints or
broken traces where the connectors mount to the PCB. Those points are
likely to have the most stress placed on them and are therefore most
likely to fail.
Denny Strauser
Apr 28, 2012, 4:09:07 AM4/28/12
to
is so inexpensive that it is expendable. It is cheaper to replace than
repair.
- Denny
Audio1
Apr 28, 2012, 10:40:22 AM4/28/12
to
A problem I've had with more than one 2496 is with the analog or digital
input selection for input A. It's done with a relay and the contacts on
the relay seem to oxidize and stop conducting. Switching back and forth
between analog and digital will sometimes fix the problem for a while
but I've gone in to the 2496, removed the relay and soldered in jumpers.
This requires being very skilled with a soldering iron, the relays have
eight pins, they're small and the circuit board and traces are fragile.
It could work if one just left the relay in place and jumpered the
contacts, I was concerned the dodgy contacts might add noise so I took
them out.
Input C switches between a line input and the measurement microphone
input with the same kind of relay. I've never had problems with those
relays but I also replaced those with jumpers.
geoff
Apr 28, 2012, 7:21:12 PM4/28/12
to
JWald wrote:
the outputs on the 2496. Generally, I get no
> output to the amps. I used to think it was in the output jacks
> themseves, but i have discovered that if i give a few firm pops with
> my fingers to the windscreen of the mic, it kicks in and then works
> fine.
You know how you hear a 'click'after switch-on. That is physical relays
the outputs on the 2496. Generally, I get no
> output to the amps. I used to think it was in the output jacks
> themseves, but i have discovered that if i give a few firm pops with
> my fingers to the windscreen of the mic, it kicks in and then works
> fine.
operating - a 'true bypass' possibly.
I have two units, and wioth one the ouytputs 'come and go' seemingly
randoomly. I guess it is tarnished relays contacts causing this , but
haven't yet torn it open ( I am a tech). Will do tonight and confirm if
treating ( burnishing is possible, and or Deoxit treatment), or changing
these relays helps.
geoff
JWald
Apr 30, 2012, 2:06:28 PM4/30/12
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Michael Dobony
May 1, 2012, 1:26:55 PM5/1/12
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Gareth Magennis
May 1, 2012, 4:17:49 PM5/1/12
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"JWald" <wl...@grics.net> wrote in message
news:32899676.1116.1335809188748.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjw9...
suggestion and hard wire the relays into the non bypass position without
removing them.
By far the easiest and safest bet IMHO.
Gareth.
JWald
May 1, 2012, 8:04:51 PM5/1/12
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JWald
May 1, 2012, 8:06:40 PM5/1/12
to sur...@stopassaultnow.net
geoff
May 2, 2012, 3:34:46 AM5/2/12
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JWald wrote:
>> I'm a tech, and since you can solder, I would recommend you go with
>> Audio1's suggestion and hard wire the relays into the non bypass
>> position without removing them.
>>
>> By far the easiest and safest bet IMHO.
>>
>>
>> Gareth.
>
> I haven't had a chance to open it up yet. What does the relay look
> like, and where is/are it/they located? How does one go about the
> hardwire? Thanks.
The relays are NOT next to the EBU In/Out sockets as suggested earlier (not
>> I'm a tech, and since you can solder, I would recommend you go with
>> Audio1's suggestion and hard wire the relays into the non bypass
>> position without removing them.
>>
>> By far the easiest and safest bet IMHO.
>>
>>
>> Gareth.
>
> I haven't had a chance to open it up yet. What does the relay look
> like, and where is/are it/they located? How does one go about the
> hardwire? Thanks.
by me !) - those are transformers (for transformer-isolating the EBU
timecode signal). The relays are directly behind the Audio In/Out XLRs and
are Bestar BT-05S.
Specs here : http://www.datasheetdir.com/BT-5S+download
The pcb traces are very fine and close, and have plated-through holes - I
would not consider attempting to remove the relays without a proper pro
desoldering gun, and some experience !
As for hardwiring a bypass of the contacts, the relay is described as a "2
Form C contact" , which I'm not sure about - I would have expected "2 Pole
Changeover" - maybe that's the same thing !
Looking inside the DEQ I am impressed with the construction quality - build
level comparable with 'reputable' brands such as EAW, Biamp, etc.
geoff
Gareth Magennis
May 2, 2012, 4:08:09 AM5/2/12
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"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:95idnQmxYZCmfj3S...@giganews.com...
similar looks, footprints and pinouts.
The are 2-pole changeovers.
This is typical - click on "Technical Datasheet" to get pinouts and
dimensions.
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-axicom/v23105-a5475-a201/relay-pcb-dpco-5vdc/dp/1174986
Gareth.
Gareth Magennis
May 2, 2012, 6:20:35 AM5/2/12
to
news:6127485.77.1335917091871.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@pbckq1...
As far as going about the hardwire is concerned, look at the datasheet for a
relay I posted earlier:
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-axicom/v23105-a5475-a201/relay-pcb-dpco-5vdc/dp/1174986
If you're lucky, Behringer have put their relay right by the In and Out
sockets so that in bypass mode, the In XLRs are directly switched to the
Out XLR's. Check this by seeing if the signal is transmitted through the
unit when the power is turned off.
If this is the case then you need to solder pins 13 and 9, and pins 4 and 8.
If not the above, then which of the 2 pins to short to is unknown, but you
might be able to establish which way round it goes by putting your fingers
on the relay and turning on the unit so it fires into its normal operating
point. If you feel the relay click, that means the switch has been made
from pin 13 to pin 9 and pin 4 to pin 8, so these are the pins you want to
bridge.
You might be able to hear it click, but if there is more than one relay in
the unit you might not be able to reliably tell which one actually clicked!
Gareth.
relay I posted earlier:
http://uk.farnell.com/te-connectivity-axicom/v23105-a5475-a201/relay-pcb-dpco-5vdc/dp/1174986
If you're lucky, Behringer have put their relay right by the In and Out
sockets so that in bypass mode, the In XLRs are directly switched to the
Out XLR's. Check this by seeing if the signal is transmitted through the
unit when the power is turned off.
If this is the case then you need to solder pins 13 and 9, and pins 4 and 8.
If not the above, then which of the 2 pins to short to is unknown, but you
might be able to establish which way round it goes by putting your fingers
on the relay and turning on the unit so it fires into its normal operating
point. If you feel the relay click, that means the switch has been made
from pin 13 to pin 9 and pin 4 to pin 8, so these are the pins you want to
bridge.
You might be able to hear it click, but if there is more than one relay in
the unit you might not be able to reliably tell which one actually clicked!
Gareth.
JWald
May 2, 2012, 5:12:08 PM5/2/12
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On Friday, April 27, 2012 4:51:15 PM UTC-5, JWald wrote:
I opened up the 2496 and reheated the input and output connections to the board. I've been trying it out every now and then since the touch up and everything is working fine. The test will be going to a gig and not having a problem. I'm hoping that there was a bad connection in there somewhere and the reheat of the solder was the fix. If problems continue, I'll be looking at the relay jump. Thanks to all for the help.
geoff
May 2, 2012, 6:14:47 PM5/2/12
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gigs, which I couldn't afford to do.
I'm replacing the relays (different brand) - tried cracking one open to
treat the conatcts, but damaged it.
geoff
Sean Conolly
May 3, 2012, 3:12:53 PM5/3/12
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"geoff" <ge...@nospampaf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:WrSdnafgKuPmLDzS...@giganews.com...
> JWald wrote:
>> On Friday, April 27, 2012 4:51:15 PM UTC-5, JWald wrote:
>> The test will be going to a gig
>> and not having a problem. I'm hoping that there was a bad connection
>> in there somewhere and the reheat of the solder was the fix. If
>> problems continue, I'll be looking at the relay jump. Thanks to all
>> for the help.
>
> My dodgey unit would usually work fine under test, but routinely crap out
> on gigs, which I couldn't afford to do.
Thats been my experience at the last five gigs - every things works at, at
>> On Friday, April 27, 2012 4:51:15 PM UTC-5, JWald wrote:
>> The test will be going to a gig
>> and not having a problem. I'm hoping that there was a bad connection
>> in there somewhere and the reheat of the solder was the fix. If
>> problems continue, I'll be looking at the relay jump. Thanks to all
>> for the help.
>
> My dodgey unit would usually work fine under test, but routinely crap out
> on gigs, which I couldn't afford to do.
works at sound check, and then things start failing as soon as the first set
starts. On the first break I'll go through everything carefully and it all
works.
On one of those occasions it turned out that 3 out of 4 channels on the quad
gate failed. All channels were working at sound check and failed on the 3rd
or 4th song. At least it failed permanently so I could identify and replace
it.
Jeff, these are the dangers of being a drummer and bringing too much crap to
the gig. I see myself going all acoustic in the future.
Sean
JWald
May 4, 2012, 2:29:49 AM5/4/12
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Gareth Magennis
May 4, 2012, 3:55:23 AM5/4/12
to
news:17231608.404.1336112989416.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynjb15...
You could replace all that crap by one digital desk that will have all the
comps, gates, and EQ you will ever need for every input and output, none of
which will have any intermittent faults, ever.
Checkout the price and size of a used Yamaha LS9/16 for instance.
Gareth.
comps, gates, and EQ you will ever need for every input and output, none of
which will have any intermittent faults, ever.
Checkout the price and size of a used Yamaha LS9/16 for instance.
Gareth.
JWald
May 5, 2012, 5:03:59 AM5/5/12
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I had a digital board once, and sold it. Not that it wasn't nice, but because it was too complex to run while I drummed. With my analog board i can spot the control I'm after and get to it relatively easy to make an adjustment. I might get another though when I'm just doing the sound guy thing.
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