Fan for Crown amp

[dsdennysound]

One of the Crown monitor amp fans at the club I've been working at is
failing ... likely bearing wearing out. Does anyone know where I can
buy a replacement fan for cheap?

[Phil Allison]

"dsdennysound"

<
> One of the Crown monitor amp fans at the club I've been working at is
> failing ... likely bearing wearing out. Does anyone know where I can
> buy a replacement fan for cheap?
>

** Of course, every fan used in every Crown amp is exactly same and a common
type as well.

Sarcasm alert on.


.... Phil

[gregz]

I don't have a one source in mind. I usually order from Internet part
searches. You can search various distributors, but that takes time. Oh I do
have one in mind, allied. Computer suppliers don't usually have much 120
volt stuff, if that's what it is.

Greg

[Steve M]

Which Crown are you talking about? Crown makes a lot of different amps.

--
Steve McQ

[Gareth Magennis]

"gregz" <ze...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1529965072376112278.0...@news.eternal-september.org...

Its probably the unique to Crown (as far as I know) fan used in the MA
series and others.
You will not find these off the shelf, they are not the standard square
things.

I believe the fan and low voltage transformer are combined into one unit.

Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

Like this, but with a secondary winding for + - 15v generation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaded-pole_motor



Gareth.

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis" >
> "gregz"
<dsdenn...@gmail.com>

>
>>> One of the Crown monitor amp fans at the club I've been working at is
>>> failing ... likely bearing wearing out. Does anyone know where I can
>>> buy a replacement fan for cheap?

>

> Its probably the unique to Crown (as far as I know) fan used in the MA
> series and others.
> You will not find these off the shelf, they are not the standard square
> things.
>
> I believe the fan and low voltage transformer are combined into one unit.

** Correct.

That was the first problem I thought of when I read the OP's idiot post,
which omits the model number.

BTW 1:

The fans used in the Macrotech /Microtech /MA series ( and some QSC models )
have plain bearings that last for decades and are easily lubricated if they
become noisy.

Mostly it's the ball bearing fans that develop severe rumble and cannot be
fixed.

BTW 2:

My local supplier had " Ceramica " brand fans with white ceramic
earings - no lubrication & life span is up to 20 years even run 24/7.


.... Phil

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:ai2bqb...@mid.individual.net...

>
> "Gareth Magennis" >
>> "gregz"
> <dsdenn...@gmail.com>
>>
>>>> One of the Crown monitor amp fans at the club I've been working at is
>>>> failing ... likely bearing wearing out. Does anyone know where I can
>>>> buy a replacement fan for cheap?
>
>>
>> Its probably the unique to Crown (as far as I know) fan used in the MA
>> series and others.
>> You will not find these off the shelf, they are not the standard square
>> things.
>>
>> I believe the fan and low voltage transformer are combined into one unit.
>
> ** Correct.
>
> That was the first problem I thought of when I read the OP's idiot post,
> which omits the model number.
>
> BTW 1:
>
> The fans used in the Macrotech /Microtech /MA series ( and some QSC
> models ) have plain bearings that last for decades and are easily
> lubricated if they become noisy.
>

Yes, I have freed these off in the past, all except the old MA2400 I got in
about 9 months ago, where no amount of faffing would free off the bearings.
Don't know what happened there.

I did investigate spare parts, and could have bought a new rotor and 2
bearing caps for a bit less than £100, (here in the UK), but instead took
the perfectly good bearings out of a scrap little used CSL 1400 I had.

I don't have the old caps any more, but I think I'm correct in that you
can't replace the bearings, otherwise I would have tried to do so then, and
in the past.



Cheers,


Gareth.

[Denny Strauser]

The amp is a Macro Tech 2400.

[Phil Allison]

"Denny Strauser"

>
>> Which Crown are you talking about? Crown makes a lot of different amps.
>>
>> --

>

> The amp is a Macro Tech 2400.

** My gawd !!!

It took this jerk *THREE* whole months to post the fucking model number !!





... Phil

[Denny Strauser]

On 3/3/2013 10:01 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> "Denny Strauser"
>>
>>> Which Crown are you talking about? Crown makes a lot of different amps.
>>

>> The amp is a Macro Tech 2400.
>
> ** My gawd !!!
> It took this jerk *THREE* whole months to post the fucking model number !!
> ... Phil

This jerk gets busy at times. I don't really need this amp often. The
fan seems to run smoothly for a while, then starts rattling like
bearings out-of-balance.

Denny ... the jerk

[Phil Allison]

"Denny Strauser"

>>>
>>> The amp is a Macro Tech 2400.
>>
>> ** My gawd !!!
>> It took this jerk *THREE* whole months to post the fucking model
>> number !!
>> ... Phil
>
> This jerk gets busy at times. I don't really need this amp often. The fan
> seems to run smoothly for a while, then starts rattling like bearings
> out-of-balance.
>
> Denny ... the jerk

** FFS read the thread.

What Gareth and I say is highly relevant.



.... Phil

[Denny Strauser]

I read the thread. I work as one of two sound engineers at the club with
this troublesome amp. We don't really have the time to pull the amp out
of the rack, open it up, oil the fan motor (which will likely require
pulling the fan out), putting it back together, plugging it in & turning
it on and wait to see if the fan begins to rattle again.

All I need to know is where to buy a new fan & how much it will cost,
within reason & within the USA.

BTW, Phil ... Have you heard of the Aussie band "The Holy Sea" ??? The
singer of that band now lives in Pittsburgh. I've done sound for him a
few times recently. I also recently did sound for the Aussie band
"Husky" a couple times recently. Small world ...

- Denny

[Phil Allison]

"Denny Strauser"

> I read the thread. I work as one of two sound engineers

** Sound engineers are idiots.

FFS - you need a good electronics tech.

> We don't really have the time to pull the amp out of the rack, open it
> up, oil the fan motor (which will likely require pulling the fan out),

** No it does not.

Cleaning and oiling the fan bearing takes only minutes.

The result will be obvious immediately you switch on.

You stupid guesses and hunches are totally fuckwit.

> All I need to know is where to buy a new fan & how much it will cost,
> within reason & within the USA.

** Replacing the fan is a much bigger job only a tech could do.

Not a moron like you.



.... Phil

[Gareth Magennis]

"Denny Strauser" wrote in message news:kh2h8h$hbj$1...@dont-email.me...

Denny, I found that if you oil the bearing and the bearing is f**ked, what
happens is that the rotor shaft will, for a while, spin inside the seized
inner bearing, until it sticks to it again a day later once the oil runs
out.

What is supposed to happen is that the rotor sticks to this inner bearing,
and rotates it inside the outer fixed bearing, separated by a set of ball
bearings.

Basically this means that one half of the bearing should be fixed to the
rotor shaft, the other half fixed to the motor, the only sliding parts being
the ball bearings in between.



So, if time is tight and you can't afford the risk, contact your Crown
spares dept.
I did, and was told I could get the parts required for £100, yours may be
cheaper since Crown is a USA company.

The alternative is to try and free off just the ball bearings, something I
have achieved in the past.


Hope that makes sense.


Gareth

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"

>
> Denny, I found that if you oil the bearing and the bearing is f**ked,
> what happens is that the rotor shaft will, for a while, spin inside the
> seized inner bearing, until it sticks to it again a day later once the oil
> runs out.

** The fan / transformer used in MacroTechs has a plain bearing.

A steel shaft running in a bronze bushing.

If it is not horribly worn, a drop of oil fixes it.






.... Phil

[Lord Valve]

Crown calls it a "fanformer." Always thought that was hilarious...

LV

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" wrote in message news:apkk5o...@mid.individual.net...

Didn't fix mine.


Denny, buy the spares, it's guaranteed to work first time, and its 2 bolts
to remove and replace.


Gareth.

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison" "Gareth Magennis"

>>
>> Denny, I found that if you oil the bearing and the bearing is f**ked,
>> what happens is that the rotor shaft will, for a while, spin inside the
>> seized inner bearing, until it sticks to it again a day later once the
>> oil runs out.
>
> ** The fan / transformer used in MacroTechs has a plain bearing.
>
> A steel shaft running in a bronze bushing.
>
> If it is not horribly worn, a drop of oil fixes it.
>
>
> Didn't fix mine.

** So fucking what ?

It has fixed every one I have ever seen.

> Denny, buy the spares, it's guaranteed to work first time, and its 2 bolts
> to remove and replace.

** You sure we are speaking about the same amp?

Macro Tech 2400 ?

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/karolina/DSC07306-Crown-Open.jpg

http://i50.tinypic.com/2ppj3hv.jpg

That white blade fan looks thoroughly buried to me and there are numerous
wires to attach.

There is no ball bearing in that fan.

If you think replacing it is a job for some half-witted " sound ingineur " -
you must be stark raving nuts.




.... Phil

[gregz]

Dead center, a hole !

Greg

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message

news:apl17o...@mid.individual.net...

Hi Phil,
well you are right and I am wrong, there are no ball bearings in the fan.

Here's 2 photos:
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/imag0166mt.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/imag0162of.jpg/


You can see the bearing is free to rotate in the end cap, but is fitted too
tight to turn freely, though it can be turned with a screwdriver. The shaft
turns inside the bearing which remains stationary.
The other end cap I believe has an identical bearing, but I don't have that
any more.

What happened to this one was I freed off the other bearing/shaft, which was
the problem, but embarrasingly the customer brought it back a couple of days
later as it had seized again. The other end of the shaft was again tight in
the bearing making nasty noises, and the bearing was "crunchy" when you
tried to move it with a scewdriver, so I assumed that was the problem, i.e.
it was supposed to turn freely.

Like you I have freed these in the past, and not had problems, I don't know
why this one did not remain freed off.


The spare parts available are, I believe, the rotor and bearing in the
photos, and the other bearing in its housing. These can be removed and
refitted to the rest of the fan unit without having to dismantle any wiring
IIRC.


Denny, if you are going to attempt this, the white fan blade is a very
tight press fit onto the shaft and can be cracked if you are too heavy
handed. Mark the blade before you remove it, otherwise it is possible to
fit it back on the wrong way round, and your amp will suck instead of blow,
and may well overheat.



Cheers,


Gareth.

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"

>
>>> ** The fan / transformer used in MacroTechs has a plain bearing.
>>>
>>> A steel shaft running in a bronze bushing.
>>>
>>> If it is not horribly worn, a drop of oil fixes it.
>>>

>> ** You sure we are speaking about the same amp?
>>
>> Macro Tech 2400 ?
>>
>> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/karolina/DSC07306-Crown-Open.jpg
>>
>> http://i50.tinypic.com/2ppj3hv.jpg
>>
>> That white blade fan looks thoroughly buried to me and there are numerous
>> wires to attach.
>>
>> There is no ball bearing in that fan.
>>
>> If you think replacing it is a job for some half-witted " sound ingineur
>> " - you must be stark raving nuts.
>>
>

> Hi Phil,
> well you are right and I am wrong, there are no ball bearings in the fan.
>
> Here's 2 photos:
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/imag0166mt.jpg/
> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/imag0162of.jpg/
>

** Hard to make sense of those pics.

> The spare parts available are, I believe, the rotor and bearing in the
> photos, and the other bearing in its housing. These can be removed and
> refitted to the rest of the fan unit without having to dismantle any
> wiring IIRC.

** Bloody hell.

>
> Denny, if you are going to attempt this, the white fan blade is a very
> tight press fit onto the shaft and can be cracked if you are too heavy
> handed. Mark the blade before you remove it, otherwise it is possible to
> fit it back on the wrong way round, and your amp will suck instead of
> blow,

** ROTFL !!!

There is a correct way around, but direction of blow will NOT change.

Gareth must be related to the Queen of Hearts.



.... Phil

[Gareth Magennis]

"Phil Allison" <phi...@tpg.com.au> wrote in message

news:apm3ag...@mid.individual.net...

Must admit, that made me laugh when I thought about that!

Thing is, I did this once and I'm sure it blew warm air out of the front
instead of the sides - this was about 15 years ago though and my memory can
sometimes be faulty.

If you look at the photo you posted
http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/karolina/DSC07306-Crown-Open.jpg
the fan blades are dead centre of the hole, drawing air from above down into
the amp and out through the side heatsinks. (Actually the other way round
because the amp is upside down).
If you do fit the fan the wrong way round the blades are no longer in the
correct position, and the airflow changes considerably.


I think.



Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

>> Here's 2 photos:
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/imag0166mt.jpg/
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/imag0162of.jpg/
>>
>
> ** Hard to make sense of those pics.
>

This is how it all normally sits.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/imag0168ij.jpg/


Gareth.

[Gareth Magennis]

>> Here's 2 photos:
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/580/imag0166mt.jpg/
>> http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/21/imag0162of.jpg/
>>
>
> ** Hard to make sense of those pics.
>

[Phil Allison]

"Gareth Magennis"
> "Phil Allison">

> Must admit, that made me laugh when I thought about that!
>
> Thing is, I did this once and I'm sure it blew warm air out of the front
> instead of the sides - this was about 15 years ago though and my memory
> can sometimes be faulty.

** This is one of them.

> If you look at the photo you posted
> http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/karolina/DSC07306-Crown-Open.jpg
> the fan blades are dead centre of the hole, drawing air from above down
> into the amp and out through the side heatsinks. (Actually the other way
> round because the amp is upside down).
> If you do fit the fan the wrong way round the blades are no longer in the
> correct position, and the airflow changes considerably.

** Fans are usually mounted on panels and may blow air in or draw air out,
it makes no diff.

None of your pics show the fan's actual bearings, which are bronze "oilite"
types - one at the top and one at the bottom of the motor shaft. They need
a drop of oil sometimes.

However, you have still not considered how looney it is for a "sound
engineer" to be tackling the insides of something like a Macro Tech 2400
that belongs to some a venue. Few of them even have the skills needed to use
a screwdriver or a soldering iron.

FFS - they must take it to a tech for the fan issue and a good service.

BTW:

Denny has been quite demented for years now and is getting worse.


.... Phil

[Denny Strauser]

On 3/5/2013 6:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> <snipped> >

>
> Denny has been quite demented for years now and is getting worse.
> .... Phil

Thanks for all your kind words. I have been opening up my own equipment
for years. But my question was not how to fix or replace the fan. The
question was where can I buy one & how much will it cost?

My former repairman (who now installs & repairs electron-microscopes)
will replace the fan. I have no desire to do so myself - not because I
don't think I can do it, but because I'm too lazy to do it myself.

- Denny

[gregz]

I remember a fellow who operated electron microscopes, and had a recording
studio at home ?

Greg

[Gareth Magennis]

"Denny Strauser" wrote in message news:kh7t64$noa$1...@dont-email.me...

On 3/5/2013 6:31 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
> <snipped> >
>
> Denny has been quite demented for years now and is getting worse.
> .... Phil

Thanks for all your kind words. I have been opening up my own equipment
for years. But my question was not how to fix or replace the fan. The
question was where can I buy one & how much will it cost?

Yes, but the answer given here is this is NOT a fan.

Part of the motor are available. Where in North America, and at what cost, I
have no idea, though I'm sure these people will know:

http://www.crownaudio.com/techsupp.htm


They might even be able to supply a complete fan motor/transformer assembly
at great cost, when you could actually have solved your problem with a
couple of drops of oil instead.



Gareth

[Phil Allison]

"Denny Strauser"

Phil Allison wrote:
>
>>
>> Denny has been quite demented for years now and is getting worse.

>

> Thanks for all your kind words. I have been opening up my own equipment
> for years. But my question was not how to fix or replace the fan. The
> question was where can I buy one & how much will it cost?

** Your problem is to first contact Crown Audio.

I bet no others will have them.

> My former repairman (who now installs & repairs electron-microscopes) will
> replace the fan.

** Then let him track one down.

I bet he knows what to do.



.... Phil