Driverack
Eeyore
comments about the dbx Driverack range.
I recall something about large power-on-off thumps - was that a
Driverack problem ?
I'm looking at the Driverack 'PA' for a 2x3 rig. Excellent price but no
presets for the kit I have. How good is the 'wizard' ? Are the settings
easily lock-out-able from fuckwits ?
Any info and experience welcome.
Graham
Denny Strauser
Graham,
The club that I work at has two DriveRack PA'a. I use one as a crossover
in the amp rack. I use the other as a stereo EQ in the FOH rack, before
the house graphic. This allows me to save my own recallable EQ curve. I
like the DriveRack. For the price, they're a decent unit.
I don't know about the power-up thump. I manually power up the system in
proper sequence.
I haven't used the Setup Wizard. I set it up manually. I don't trust
RTA's although I find them useful. I have a pink noise CD with stereo
pink noise, which eliminates phase cancellation & mono convergence when
using an RTA.
The lockout feature can be unlocked by anyone who knows how to access
this feature - holding down the Wizard key while powering up the unit.
The DriveRack PA has quite a few options for the price.
I've never used the Feedback Exterminator or the dbx-120A, although
there have been times I've been tempted. I'd rather have the dbx-120A on
an aux, not the whole mix. I actually own a dbx-120A.
There are many options in the compressors & x-overs.
It has graphic & parametric EQ's. The graphic is not fast on the fly;
alternating between frequency choice & attenuation/boost parameters
demands pressing the rotating knob that adjusts those parameters. This
can lead to mistakes in slow-thinking users, like myself.
You can save edits without interrupting the signal, but if you load a
different preset (factory or user), the signal will be interrupted for,
maybe, two seconds.
There is a decent number of factory settings for JBL, Cerwin Vega, EAW,
EV, Mackie, Peavey & Yamaha speakers; as well as Crown, Peavey, QSC &
Yamaha amps. A theater that I'll be working in in a couple weeks got
crossover settings from dbx for the older model EAW 650's that weren't
weren't in a factory preset.
The club that I work at has Community SLS960 tops & JBL Custom Shop
subs, so the factory presets are useless to me. And, since we changed
out the Midas Venice 24 channel FOH board for a 40 channel Yamaha M3000
(not my choice, BTW), I'm now re-tweaking the x-over. It's surprising
how much changing one piece of equipment in the signal chain changes the
whole sound of the system.
A few thoughts... Overall, I think it's a decent piece of equipment. I'm
happy with them.
-Denny
Denny Strauser
The club that I work at has two DriveRack PA's. I use one as a crossover
in the amp rack. I use the other as a stereo EQ in the FOH rack, before
the house graphic. This allows me to save my own recallable EQ curve. I
like the DriveRack. For the price, it's a decent unit.
Denny Strauser
The club that I work at has two DriveRack PA's. I use one as a crossover
in the amp rack. I use the other as a stereo EQ in the FOH rack, before
the house graphic. This allows me to save my own recallable EQ curve. I
like the DriveRack. For the price, it's a decent unit.
I don't know about the power-up thump. I manually power up the system in
proper sequence.
I haven't used the Setup Wizard. I set it up manually. I don't trust
RTA's, although I find them useful. I have a pink noise CD with stereo
Stuart Padbury
> Eeyore wrote:
>> Been a while since I last asked but I do recall getting some positive
>> comments about the dbx Driverack range.
>>
>> I recall something about large power-on-off thumps - was that a
>> Driverack problem ?
Yes, though I've been lucky. We've had two blackouts since we bought
ours (maybe 5 years ago?) and all our drivers survived both times.
Getting a UPS would be smart, nonetheless.
>> I'm looking at the Driverack 'PA' for a 2x3 rig. Excellent price but no
>> presets for the kit I have. How good is the 'wizard' ? Are the settings
>> easily lock-out-able from fuckwits ?
>>
>> Any info and experience welcome.
>>
>> Graham
>>
> I haven't used the Setup Wizard.
The setup wizard is pretty simple to use. The eq curves it devises to
make your system "flat" are interesting to say the least. There was a
glitch when setting the 'accuracy' of the auto-eq; when set to high, it
did the pink noise thing but the auto-eq never happened and eventually
there was an error message (sorry, don't remember what it was). When
set to low or medium, it works normally every time. Personally, I think
you're better off eq'ing the system yourself in the unit and putting in
a hardware graph beforehand for visitors.
The sub synth can only be applied to the whole mix, which makes it
almost useless.
> The lockout feature can be unlocked by anyone who knows how to access
> this feature - holding down the Wizard key while powering up the unit.
>
> It has graphic & parametric EQ's. The graphic is not fast on the fly;
> alternating between frequency choice & attenuation/boost parameters
> demands pressing the rotating knob that adjusts those parameters. This
> can lead to mistakes in slow-thinking users, like myself.
Another thing with the graphics: you can have one graph control both
sides or one per side. Using two can really slow you down on the fly.
To get from the FOH right graphic to the left FOH graphics you have to
scroll through 6 pages of parametric options by pressing the eq button.
The left/right buttons scroll through options within a page, not
between the pages themselves which is a bit irritating.
> You can save edits without interrupting the signal, but if you load a
> different preset (factory or user), the signal will be interrupted for,
> maybe, two seconds.
>
> There is a decent number of factory settings for JBL, Cerwin Vega, EAW,
> EV, Mackie, Peavey & Yamaha speakers; as well as Crown, Peavey, QSC &
> Yamaha amps. A theater that I'll be working in in a couple weeks got
> crossover settings from dbx for the older model EAW 650's that weren't
> weren't in a factory preset.
When using the wizard, you select which of the boxes you have. There is
a custom/passive/2-way option (I think it's the last one) for the mid
highs and custom/passive/sub to complete the picture.
We bought ours to replace those old behringer analog crossovers. 5
years on, we're happy with it.
Cheers,
Stu.
Bob Howes
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:484C79D7...@hotmail.com...
The power on thump is a very real problem with the Driverack PA. A venue I
worked at regularly in the UK lost some drivers when there was a brief (2-3
second) power cut mid-show and I've heard a number of similar horror
stories. Doing your power on/power off in the proper order obviously
protects you in normal operation but can't save you from an unexpected mains
bump. Too bad because I quite like the unit otherwise.
This only affects the Driverack PA...the rest of the Driverack range is fine
from this point of view.
Bob
moby
wrote:
The thump is a real diaphragm killer - more of an explosion really.
The DRPA has no muting relays on the outputs, unlike all the others
in the range. The other shortcoming is the relatively small amount
delay
available on the output passbands - forget it if you are thinking of
using
the DRPA for delay stacks. For a little more money the DBX DR260
or the BSS FDS336 Minidrive are better choices. Can't comment about
wizards - never use them.
M
bob urz
I am using a PA on the show i am doing now. I always power it up first
then turn the amps on, and then reverse the order. Never had a problem.
After all the negative comments about them and thumps, i just play it
safe. If one was really anal, you would put a small rack mount UPS
on it.
The rack its in now had a 260 in it. Last week i noticed i had one
side down in level on the 260. traced it back to the drive rack.
Noticed a nice RF modulation on one channel out. Looks like
some sort of cap deal, but i have not got deep into it yet.
stay tuned...
I played with a beringer 2496 also, but was not brave enough to use it.
Either DBX unit is usable, but don't expect a sports car for a
econobox price.
bob
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Denny Strauser
> The other shortcoming is the relatively small amount
> delay
> available on the output passbands - forget it if you are thinking of
> using
> the DRPA for delay stacks.
Good point. The maximum delay is 10ms. Enough to time align a floor
stacked system or totally flown system, but not much more.
-Denny
Denny Strauser
> The power on thump is a very real problem with the Driverack PA. A
> venue I worked at regularly in the UK lost some drivers when there was a
> brief (2-3 second) power cut mid-show and I've heard a number of similar
> horror stories. Doing your power on/power off in the proper order
> obviously protects you in normal operation but can't save you from an
> unexpected mains bump. Too bad because I quite like the unit otherwise.
>
> This only affects the Driverack PA...the rest of the Driverack range is
> fine from this point of view.
Bob,
When during the power-up process does the thump occur? As soon as power
is applied, or later in the start-up sequence? I have noticed some sort
of start-up sequence in the DRPA display. I turn on our MacroTech amps
right after turning on the DRPA, never heard a thump; but the Crowns
have a couple seconds of relay delay before providing output to the
speaker lugs. Some amps do, some don't. A valid consideration.
-Denny
Eeyore
Denny Strauser wrote:
> moby wrote:
> > The other shortcoming is the relatively small amount of delay
> > available on the output passbands - forget it if you are thinking of
> > using the DRPA for delay stacks.
>
> Good point. The maximum delay is 10ms. Enough to time align a floor
> stacked system or totally flown system, but not much more.
Not a problem here.
Graham
Tim Perry
"Bob Howes" <bob....@bee-tee-internet.com> wrote in message
news:b533k.9075$IK1....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
There is no "power on thump" at least on the 2 units I have owned.
There is a noise burst on power off that measures minus 10 dB with a AA-51A
which I believe is reasonably calibrated.
The AA-51A is analog so the reading is limited by the movement response.
I have lost power during a show (lightning/rain tripped GFI) and sustained
no damage.
As I seldom operate with amp knobs at max the effect is more of an
annoyance then a killer.
I don't have much use for the wizard. Seems more of a problem maker then
problem solver to me.
I had a "gotcha once"... the sub synth generator was on and the solo
guitarist could hear it...and wasnt happy.
When setting x-over points the high pass and low pass are independent.
kind of cool if you have a specialized need for overlap. kind of a drag if
you are tuning a system by ear.
I prefer the DCX-2496 as it has 3 inputs allowing me to process a monoized
sub feed. It also tracks high pass and lowpass when tuning.
Eeyore
Tim Perry wrote:
> I don't have much use for the wizard. Seems more of a problem maker then
> problem solver to me.
So how do you set ther limiter action ?
As suggested by the speaker manufacturer for example, just got a 200W/ch @ 8
ohm amp to drive the 80W continuous HF 8 ohm drivers, so relying on the amp's
own limiters alone would be unwise.
Graham
Bob Howes
"Denny Strauser" <dennysound_comcast_net> wrote in message
news:VoSdna1pqPJQK9DV...@comcast.com...
In my experience, the dangerous noise is actually at power off, not power
on. At THAT point, it's virtually instantaneous, certainly quick enough to
cause amps which are also losing power to blow a few drivers with their last
gasp.
Bob
Tim Perry
>
>
> Tim Perry wrote:
>
> > I don't have much use for the wizard. Seems more of a problem maker then
> > problem solver to me.
>
> So how do you set ther limiter action ?
manully. I only use 2-way modes and let the light bulbs or whatever protect
the horns... works pretty good for me. in fact using pink noise and the
wizard in a theatre blew the ligbulbs in my E-600s and I had to scramble to
get replacements. Note I am not blaming the box the operator certainly has
to share the blame.
>
> As suggested by the speaker manufacturer for example, just got a 200W/ch @
8
> ohm amp to drive the 80W continuous HF 8 ohm drivers, so relying on the
amp's
> own limiters alone would be unwise.
>
> Graham
>
I mostly use DCX for live and Driverack for DJ type things but it varies
depending on the show, what is loaded, my mood or if I'm doing 2 systems at
the same time. Having 2 digital EQs adds to my comfort factor.
Someone a long time ago suggested an outboard mod where relays would drop
and mute the outs in the event of a power failure. Seems a bit cumbersome
and would have to be tied in to the ON/off switch to be idiot proof.
I guess in a 3-way system the noise burst would be more problematic....but
I'm not sure why. no light bulbs? more likely amps at max and overpower for
the load.
Seems kind of a waste to buy a PA processor and then have to run a limiter
after it.
I don't think my equipment it up to making a meaningful spectral analysis of
the burst and it may not be the same in all units. it was very similar in
the 2 I have owned. Sounds a bit like white noise with lots of odd order
harmonics added. high and harsh. It happens every time power is lost. It is
not intermittent.
Eeyore
Bob Howes wrote:
> "Denny Strauser" wrote
> > Bob Howes wrote:
> >
> >> The power on thump is a very real problem with the Driverack PA. A venue
> >> I worked at regularly in the UK lost some drivers when there was a brief
> >> (2-3 second) power cut mid-show and I've heard a number of similar horror
> >> stories. Doing your power on/power off in the proper order obviously
> >> protects you in normal operation but can't save you from an unexpected
> >> mains bump. Too bad because I quite like the unit otherwise.
> >>
> >> This only affects the Driverack PA...the rest of the Driverack range is
> >> fine from this point of view.
> >
> > When during the power-up process does the thump occur? As soon as power is
> > applied, or later in the start-up sequence? I have noticed some sort of
> > start-up sequence in the DRPA display. I turn on our MacroTech amps right
> > after turning on the DRPA, never heard a thump; but the Crowns have a
> > couple seconds of relay delay before providing output to the speaker lugs.
> > Some amps do, some don't. A valid consideration.
>
> In my experience, the dangerous noise is actually at power off, not power
> on. At THAT point, it's virtually instantaneous, certainly quick enough to
> cause amps which are also losing power to blow a few drivers with their last
> gasp.
You mean like a big 'squawk' rather than thump ? At least our sound mixers are
well-trained to power the gear in the right sequence and even turn the amp level
controls to zero on power-up/down.
And this is just on the 'PA' model ?
Hmmm, my Studiomaster D and E series amps mute the signal after about 100ms loss
of mains power, so at least they wouldn't let much through.
Graham
Tim S Kemp
> When during the power-up process does the thump occur? As soon as
> power is applied, or later in the start-up sequence? I have noticed
> some sort of start-up sequence in the DRPA display. I turn on our
> MacroTech amps right after turning on the DRPA, never heard a thump;
> but the Crowns have a couple seconds of relay delay before providing
> output to the speaker lugs. Some amps do, some don't. A valid
> consideration.
At power up and at power out, so yes if you switch it with the amps you'll
unlikely get the one at power up, power off is where it will get you when
the amps hold for a moment but the DRPA dies first, The Macros also go off
quick and I don't remember hearing it with Macros, but with Pulses they
definitely bang on power down.
I would NOT recommend using the DRPA for any system that doesn't already
have protected drivers, it's more suitable really for supplying a good
quality, passive protected full range top plus sub than a proper 3 way
system. Sound quality is good though.
Peter Larsen
> I don't think my equipment it up to making a meaningful spectral
> analysis of the burst
Do you have a computer with an analog input and reasonable samplerate, as
high as possible, if so: record and analyse it, or web' it.
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
moby
This is what the "High" outputs send to your horns at turn off -
those are 5 volt spikes, folks.
http://homepages.kcbbs.gen.nz/moby/DRPA.JPG
M
Peter Larsen
> On Jun 11, 6:44 pm, "Peter Larsen" <digi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Tim Perry wrote:
>>> I don't think my equipment it up to making a meaningful spectral
>>> analysis of the burst
>> Do you have a computer with an analog input and reasonable
>> samplerate, as high as possible, if so: record and analyse it, or
>> web' it.
>> Peter Larsen
> This is what the "High" outputs send to your horns at turn off -
> those are 5 volt spikes, folks.
> http://homepages.kcbbs.gen.nz/moby/DRPA.JPG
Veree interesting, a "you do", a "I don't" and a general LF squabble.
Almost like the usenet ... O;-) ... and very much in favour of the strategy
of not having the amp inputs turned all the way up. Thanks!
> M
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Tim Perry
"Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:484fa75d$0$56774$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
The shown results perked my interest enough to gas up the jeep, go to
storage and make some more tests. The results were startling.
I observed the outputs with a 35 MHz dual trace 'scope while powering on and
off.
When powering off I observed 2 positive going spikes 3 volts in amplitude.
The first narrow the second broader (about .1s wide) with a clipped
distorted top.
I observed a single spike on turn on
I observed near identical results in all output pins both + and -.
I brought the unit home and repeated my previous tests with the db meter
with little change from previous tests. . note the PI dB meter uses balanced
inputs with XLR-F connector cables and has DC blocking.
In short it seems to agree with behavior in the field, i.e. a little crunchy
sounding pop.
To reconcile observed data at this time I have to guess that my luck in not
losing horns must be due to a combination of always using balanced lines to
the amps, amps with reasonably high CMRR. High pass filters and limiters on
amps. Turn amps on last off first. Light bulbs in most horns. often running
an EQ after the Driverack...if power is lost to FOH the extra piece acts as
a mute.
I seldom turn individual rack pieces off.
Joe L
Seems like a bad idea to invest in something with such a known problem,
especially in the OP's case where he asks if there are lock outs for
'fuckwits'. That to me suggests that the system is operated by several
people. And thus a BAD idea for that app. IMO
Eeyore
Joe L wrote:
I just want it safe from knob twiddling meddlers. The band have access to
that area for example. The sound crew can be trusted.
Graham
Mickey
>
> "Peter Larsen" <dig...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:484fa75d$0$56774$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
>> moby wrote:
>>
>> > On Jun 11, 6:44 pm, "Peter Larsen" <digi...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Tim Perry wrote:
>>
>> >>> I don't think my equipment it up to making a meaningful spectral
>> >>> analysis of the burst
>>
>> >> Do you have a computer with an analog input and reasonable
>> >> samplerate, as high as possible, if so: record and analyse it, or
>> >> web' it.
>>
>> >> Peter Larsen
>>
>> > This is what the "High" outputs send to your horns at turn off -
>> > those are 5 volt spikes, folks.
>> > http://homepages.kcbbs.gen.nz/moby/DRPA.JPG
>>
>> Veree interesting, a "you do", a "I don't" and a general LF squabble.
>> Almost like the usenet ... O;-) ... and very much in favour of the
> strategy
>> of not having the amp inputs turned all the way up. Thanks!
>>
>
> storage and make some more tests. The results were startling.
>
> I observed the outputs with a 35 MHz dual trace 'scope while powering on and
> off.
> When powering off I observed 2 positive going spikes 3 volts in amplitude.
> The first narrow the second broader (about .1s wide) with a clipped
> distorted top.
> I observed a single spike on turn on
> I observed near identical results in all output pins both + and -.
>
> I brought the unit home and repeated my previous tests with the db meter
> with little change from previous tests. . note the PI dB meter uses balanced
> inputs with XLR-F connector cables and has DC blocking.
> In short it seems to agree with behavior in the field, i.e. a little crunchy
> sounding pop.
>
> To reconcile observed data at this time I have to guess that my luck in not
> losing horns must be due to a combination of always using balanced lines to
> the amps, amps with reasonably high CMRR. High pass filters and limiters on
> amps. Turn amps on last off first. Light bulbs in most horns. often running
> an EQ after the Driverack...if power is lost to FOH the extra piece acts as
> a mute.
> I seldom turn individual rack pieces off.
>
Excuse my naivete, but are 3-5 volt spikes a big deal?
--
Mickey
There comes a time when you should stop expecting other people to make
a big deal about your birthday. That time is age 12. -- Dave Barry
Arny Krueger
news:f6c96f5f-9f99-4bd8...@w5g2000prd.googlegroups.com
Very helpful for quantifying the problem.
I see two tweeter-killer spikes and a nice thump for stroking the voice
coil.
A cheap fix might be to put vastly larger caps into the PS so that the
power-down mess is delayed until the power amps have drained down a ways.
What happens at power up?
Rupert
> On 2008-06-12, Tim Perry <timpe...@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Peter Larsen" <digi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
If the amp sensitivity is set to give full output at +4dBu (1.23
volts), Any spike fed to them over that voltage will supply the
connected speakers with that maximum possible output voltage. For a
multi-way active system with direct connected drivers, it could mean
instant death to high frequency compression driver diaphragms, not
unlike the pop you get hot plugging a condenser mic with phantom power
turned on.
Rupert
Eeyore
Rupert wrote:
> Mickey <mic...@perusion.net> wrote:
> > Tim Perry <timpe...@nospammeadelphia.net> wrote:
> > > "Peter Larsen" <digi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> If the amp sensitivity is set to give full output at +4dBu (1.23
> volts), Any spike fed to them over that voltage will supply the
> connected speakers with that maximum possible output voltage. For a
> multi-way active system with direct connected drivers, it could mean
> instant death to high frequency compression driver diaphragms, not
> unlike the pop you get hot plugging a condenser mic with phantom power
> turned on.
They're very narrow spikes though, so there's precious little energy in them.
It ought to be no worse than a momentary clip might be.
Graham
Joe Kotroczo
<rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote:
(...)
>>> Excuse my naivete, but are 3-5 volt spikes a big deal?
>>
>>
>> If the amp sensitivity is set to give full output at +4dBu (1.23
>> volts), Any spike fed to them over that voltage will supply the
>> connected speakers with that maximum possible output voltage. For a
>> multi-way active system with direct connected drivers, it could mean
>> instant death to high frequency compression driver diaphragms, not
>> unlike the pop you get hot plugging a condenser mic with phantom power
>> turned on.
>
> They're very narrow spikes though, so there's precious little energy in them.
>
> It ought to be no worse than a momentary clip might be.
What about that peak after the 2 spikes? That looks like 1,2 or 1,3 Volts in
that .jpg and is a lot longer than the spikes.
--
Joe Kotroczo kotr...@mac.com
Mickey
>> They're very narrow spikes though, so there's precious little energy in them.
>>
>> It ought to be no worse than a momentary clip might be.
>
> What about that peak after the 2 spikes? That looks like 1,2 or 1,3 Volts in
> that .jpg and is a lot longer than the spikes.
>
It would be interesting to see what happened to the signal upon
removing power at various points with a non-quiescent signal.
--
Mickey
Nature, to be commanded, must be obeyed. -- Francis Bacon
Joe L
"Joe Kotroczo" <kotr...@mac.com> wrote in message
news:C4773F56.57C3B%kotr...@mac.com...
Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
problems in EVERY unit. Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option. But even with a
more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs the possible driver
replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption at
a gig? Not me.
Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
unit. I don't get it.
JL
Rupert
wrote:
I agree that the total energy due to the short duration is very low,
but something about those short full power transients can have
detrimental impact on HF compression drivers. It's not uncommon to
loose compression drivers in monitors when accidently plugging in
condenser mics with phantom power engaged. My understanding is that
power amps can put out a much larger voltage swing on very short large
transients then compared to steady music signals. I'm sure this can be
confirmed or refuted by Phil Alison. If that's the case, it would make
sense the the diaphragms could be damaged if slammed against the phase
plug nice and hard or the lead to the VC fusing. I've also witnessed
diaphragms on TAD 4001 drivers die open circuit after a short
transient caused accidently when pushing the frequency multiplier on a
TDM crossover while the HF amp was on. This was with an amp that was
correctly matched power wise to the driver, so there must be something
going on that's overpowering the driver in that fraction of a second
signal burst. I've heard enough horror stories about desks getting
powered off with hot amps too, so it's not an isolated issue. There's
a reason why the amps are suppose to be shut down before powering off
the desk and processing leading up to the amps other then unpleasant
noise. Stuff can break if you don't.
Rupert
Eeyore
Joe Kotroczo wrote:
> "Eeyore" wrote:
>
> >>> Excuse my naivete, but are 3-5 volt spikes a big deal?
> >>
> >> If the amp sensitivity is set to give full output at +4dBu (1.23
> >> volts), Any spike fed to them over that voltage will supply the
> >> connected speakers with that maximum possible output voltage. For a
> >> multi-way active system with direct connected drivers, it could mean
> >> instant death to high frequency compression driver diaphragms, not
> >> unlike the pop you get hot plugging a condenser mic with phantom power
> >> turned on.
> >
> > They're very narrow spikes though, so there's precious little energy in them.
> >
> > It ought to be no worse than a momentary clip might be.
>
> What about that peak after the 2 spikes? That looks like 1,2 or 1,3 Volts in
> that .jpg and is a lot longer than the spikes.
500ms @ something close to full power ?
That's nothing. Puny.
Besides, The EV DH7s in our RX212s do indeed have lamp protection against massive
overdrive, and that's not even a remotely massive overdrive.
Looks very safe to me.
In fact ....... EVERY CONE DRIVER in that rig has at one point had to be reconed,
despite being driven with recommended amps of power ratings suggested by EV, yet
the ONLY drivers NOT to blow were the DH7s ! The *lamps* did go though ! Briefly
and I was on the job quick.
I think EV need to reconsider their long-term power ratings myself. You wouldn't
BELIEVE what we discovered a month or so ago. If I hadn't already got a little
grey hair, you can be sure I'd have grown some on the spot.
Graham
Eeyore
Joe L wrote:
> Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
> problems in EVERY unit.
But IS IT an actual problem ?
Every piece of electronics 'splats' a little on turn on-off. It's a fact of
life.
> Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
> the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
> gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option.
Who ?
> But even with a more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs the
> possible driver
> replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption at
> a gig? Not me.
Not in this venue. They've had extra phases laid in. And the amp rack is now on
a dedicated 240V 32A (7.8 kW) feed. How many of YOU have that security ? And
this is for a ~ 300 max capacity venue !
Adrian (the boss) is no one's dummy.
> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
> unit. I don't get it.
Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
The last comment their best sound mixer wrote on the Behr EQ ? 'sound sucker and
destroyer'.
It's a K-T DN360 now.
Graham
Denny Strauser
>
> Joe L wrote:
>> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
>> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
>> unit. I don't get it.
>
> Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
> that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>
>
An interesting bit of trivia: I did a show with Adrian Belew about a
year ago. His sound engineer has a Behringer endorsement. He carries
Behringer FOH & Mon consoles.
Another bit: He takes 16 direct outs from the monitor console into an AD
converter; then sends an ethernet cable to controllers for each band
member to mix their own monitor.
-Denny
Eeyore
Denny Strauser wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Joe L wrote:
> >> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
> >> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
> >> unit. I don't get it.
> >
> > Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
> > that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>
> An interesting bit of trivia: I did a show with Adrian Belew about a
> year ago. His sound engineer has a Behringer endorsement. He carries
> Behringer FOH & Mon consoles.
But they're trash !
> Another bit: He takes 16 direct outs from the monitor console into an AD
> converter; then sends an ethernet cable to controllers for each band
> member to mix their own monitor.
Whew - sounds like a lot of work for the musos. Where did the monitor mixer go ?
Well..... despite what the spiteful shits george and Dildo might say, I am NOT
anti-Behringer per-se at all, never have been, and have recommended their kit myself
to my own clients on MANY occasions..
In fact, I have been very impressed by their dynamics processer the MDX 2400. It's a
sweetie ! I've been swept away by it in fact.
Dim george and Dildo might be amazed that I actually had an (several come to think
of it) email conversation(s) with Uli himself personally with regard to a permanent
position in their R&D team.
However I was not keen on a permanent re-location to either Germany or the
Phillipines, and so I declined. Could have been interesting but wasn't right for me
at that time.
However it was nice to have been offered the option and Uli made it clear that he
was interested in what I personally had to offer intellectually. He's no-one's fool.
The latest scenario I'm in involves a very large Chinese company based in the
Shanghai area. The difference is that they are are interested in developing a *UK*
R&D centre, (much as Yamaha did in the 70s which I was also invited to join ) which
is much more attractive to me as I need not not have to relocate to another country
although I do enjoy visits to the company's home nation.
Graham
geoff
>> Another bit: He takes 16 direct outs from the monitor console into
>> an AD converter; then sends an ethernet cable to controllers for
>> each band member to mix their own monitor.
>
> Whew - sounds like a lot of work for the musos. Where did the monitor
> mixer go ?
Great idea. TGhen they can't moan and quibble about their mix not being
great for themselves !
geoff
Denny Strauser
> Denny Strauser wrote:
>> An interesting bit of trivia: I did a show with Adrian Belew about a
>> year ago. His sound engineer has a Behringer endorsement. He carries
>> Behringer FOH & Mon consoles.
>
> But they're trash !
I never mixed on one, but I did notice the noise floor raised
significantly as soon as I connected their console to our system.
>> Another bit: He takes 16 direct outs from the monitor console into an AD
>> converter; then sends an ethernet cable to controllers for each band
>> member to mix their own monitor.
>
> Whew - sounds like a lot of work for the musos. Where did the monitor mixer go ?
Adrian Belew & his band mates are likely at least as old as myself,
which makes us all eligible for AARP. They've been in the business for a
long time and have at least half a clue. They know what they want & need.
> Well..... despite what the spiteful shits [snipped] might say, I am NOT
> anti-Behringer per-se at all, never have been, and have recommended their kit myself
> to my own clients on MANY occasions..
>
> In fact, I have been very impressed by their dynamics processer the MDX 2400. It's a
> sweetie ! I've been swept away by it in fact.
I haven't used that unit. The first time I used the ULTRACURVE, I
engaged the RTA to see what was going through the unit. I learned that
lesson quick, if you know what I'm talking about. Pink noise in the
middle of a show makes no one happy.
I'm not a Behringer fan. But, for the price, I actually like their
active direct boxes; but a bad mic cable can easily fry their power
supply. Another lesson learned.
The best thing I can say about the Behringer stuff is: For the price,
they're disposable. They're cheaper to replace than to fix.
I hope you don't put me in the same category as those, who's names I
deleted. But if you do, I surely deserve it.
-Denny
bob urz
Tonight, i scoped the driverack PA i am using for the Menopause show.
On shutoff, it would spike from .1 to .2 volts on the scope screen.
( at least what i could see on a non digital/sampling scope on one leg).
Sometimes it was a positive pulse, sometimes negative.
Must be some weirdness with the analog op amp rails collapsing.
bob
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Eeyore
bob urz wrote:
> Tonight, i scoped the driverack PA i am using for the Menopause show.
> On shutoff, it would spike from .1 to .2 volts on the scope screen.
> ( at least what i could see on a non digital/sampling scope on one leg).
> Sometimes it was a positive pulse, sometimes negative.
> Must be some weirdness with the analog op amp rails collapsing.
Probably no different from the 'splat' from any piece of analog kit.
Graham
Mike Dobony
> Joe L wrote:
>
>> Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
>> problems in EVERY unit.
>
> But IS IT an actual problem ?
>
> Every piece of electronics 'splats' a little on turn on-off. It's a fact of
> life.
>
>
I have never heard of the DEQ blowing drivers on power outages. It is
regularly reported from the Driverack.
>> Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
>> the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
>> gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option.
>
> Who ?
>
>
>> But even with a more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs the
>> possible driver
>> replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption at
>> a gig? Not me.
>
> Not in this venue. They've had extra phases laid in. And the amp rack is now on
> a dedicated 240V 32A (7.8 kW) feed. How many of YOU have that security ? And
> this is for a ~ 300 max capacity venue !
>
Please explain how this will stop a power outage or a driver-blowing spike
from going down line from the Driverack when power fails.
> Adrian (the boss) is no one's dummy.
>
>
>> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
>> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
>> unit. I don't get it.
>
> Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
> that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>
Let's see what we have here. Behringer is not known for blowing drivers,
but the pro Driverack does, but the safe Behringer is banned. The
Behringer xm8500 outperforms the Shure sm58, but it is the better Behringer
that is banned?
Joe L
"Eeyore" <rabbitsfriend...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4851AF4A...@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Joe L wrote:
>
>> Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
>> problems in EVERY unit.
>
> But IS IT an actual problem ?
>
> Every piece of electronics 'splats' a little on turn on-off. It's a fact
> of
> life.
>
>
>> Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
>> the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
>> gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option.
>
> Who ?
>
>> But even with a more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs
>> the
>> possible driver
>> replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption
>> at
>> a gig? Not me.
>
> Not in this venue. They've had extra phases laid in. And the amp rack is
> now on
> a dedicated 240V 32A (7.8 kW) feed. How many of YOU have that security ?
> And
> this is for a ~ 300 max capacity venue !
>
> Adrian (the boss) is no one's dummy.
Well in Euro, things might be different, but in N America the power grid is
stretched to capacity and beyond and no matter how robust your venue is, it
doesn't matter if the area grid goes down. I'm in an energy botbed area, but
still we've had power outages in the peak 2 times, around Xmas and in the
summer. That's cause everyone shares the power no matter where it's
generated, so if it's really hot down south the air conditioners will be
going strong thus lowering the power available for all. Plus sheduled power
plant maintainance closures reduce the available power as well. Sometimes
the demand out strips the available power. If the power stutters coming back
on good luck with gear like the DRPA. YMMV, but for ME I wouldn't touch
the DRPA.
>
>> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear
>> due
>> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in
>> every
>> unit. I don't get it.
>
> Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there -
> done
> that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>
> The last comment their best sound mixer wrote on the Behr EQ ? 'sound
> sucker and
> destroyer'.
>
> It's a K-T DN360 now.
Hmmm, my last KT graph had an intermittant OP problem and was replaced by a
DEQ2496 which has not only performed flawlessly, it's a smaller footprint
and does a lot more functions. Every company has winners and losers, the
DEQ is one from them, but back to the discussion, why pick the DRPA which in
my book isn't?
> Graham
>
Joe L
"Denny Strauser" <dennysound_comcast_net> wrote in message
news:HJednd3CX64HUMzV...@comcast.com...
Helps to look at the Input/Output page to know what's going where. That's
a simple routing item, and it's a well laid out unit. No excuses there.
Denny Strauser
> "Denny Strauser" <dennysound_comcast_net> wrote in message
>> The first time I used the ULTRACURVE, I engaged
>> the RTA to see what was going through the unit. I learned that lesson
>> quick, if you know what I'm talking about. Pink noise in the middle of a
>> show makes no one happy.
>
> Helps to look at the Input/Output page to know what's going where. That's
> a simple routing item, and it's a well laid out unit. No excuses there.
>
Except that I had never seen the unit before that show. I thought the
RTA key would give me an RTA display, not pink noise. those hard lessons
that are seldom forgotten.
-Denny
Joe L
"Denny Strauser" <dennysound_comcast_net> wrote in message
Oh it will, you just have to have the routing set for the rta input to be
L/R mains (or ref mic) and the pink noise to be disabled. But you knew that,
after the fact that is.
JL
Mike Dobony
What about thunderstorms? Back in Iowa power outages were not unheard of
during a thunderstorm, if only for a few seconds or even less, but more
than long enough for electrical equipment to shut down. We just had a good
thunderstorm down here today and every piece of electrical gear reset. I
wonder how Eeyore manages to eliminate such from happening. I don't think
he mentioned anything about a UPS.
Mike Dobony
Also forgot about the nice squirrel about 5 years ago that committed
suicide in a transfer station. Power was out for about 45 minutes. It
gave me a nice breather from the raunch that radio station put out.
Eeyore
Mike Dobony wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Joe L wrote:
> >
> >> Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
> >> problems in EVERY unit.
> >
> > But IS IT an actual problem ?
> >
> > Every piece of electronics 'splats' a little on turn on-off. It's a fact of
> > life.
>
> I have never heard of the DEQ blowing drivers on power outages.
You mean Behringer ?
> It is regularly reported from the Driverack.
Well... not to such a degree so far that I'd fret over it.
> >> Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
> >> the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
> >> gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option.
> >
> > Who ?
> >
> >
> >> But even with a more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs the
> >> possible driver
> >> replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption at
> >> a gig? Not me.
> >
> > Not in this venue. They've had extra phases laid in. And the amp rack is now on
> > a dedicated 240V 32A (7.8 kW) feed. How many of YOU have that security ? And
> > this is for a ~ 300 max capacity venue !
>
> Please explain how this will stop a power outage or a driver-blowing spike
> from going down line from the Driverack when power fails.
In the UK, the mains DOES NOT 'drop out' on a whim. We're a FIRST world country, not
some THIRD world one (seen that enough in India).
> > Adrian (the boss) is no one's dummy.
> >
> >> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
> >> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
> >> unit. I don't get it.
> >
> > Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
> > that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>
> Let's see what we have here. Behringer is not known for blowing drivers,
> but the pro Driverack does,
PROOF ? Cite ?
> but the safe Behringer is banned.
NO, were using a BEHR crossover right now. Works alright, just looking for better. We
use kit that we find does the job. If it doesn't, it gets binned.
> The Behringer xm8500 outperforms the Shure sm58, but it is the better Behringer
> that is banned?
Uh ? Can you even begin to explain what point you're trying to make there ?
Hey, I had a Neumann U87 once btw. The sound from the hi-hat miked by a U87 has beyond
belief. And trust me, I have ALWAYS taken great care over the sound of the kit (my
speciality in fact) , but THAT was something else.
Graham
Eeyore
Joe L wrote:
> Well in Euro, things might be different, but in N America the power grid is
> stretched to capacity and beyond and no matter how robust your venue is, it
> doesn't matter if the area grid goes down
It doesn't happen here except in the case of extreme circumstances like 'JCB's
accidentally digging up the power cables because they're working on sites with
poor mapping.
We have a very secure electrical power system. Possibly the best in the world.
Graham
Peter Larsen
> It doesn't happen here except in the case of extreme circumstances
> like 'JCB's accidentally digging up the power cables because they're
> working on sites with poor mapping.
That is not how proper constuction work procedures are, it is the mapped
ones they dig up, those that eluded mapping are the only cables safe, that
at least is what applies to telephone cabling. This based on actual
experience with a power cable having a trench made along 75 percent of the
perimeter of an admin building. The only telephone cable they say early
enough to avoid shredding it was the long lost (ie. it was known to exist,
but not where it was) unmarked one, all four that were on the map provided
for them were shredded.
> We have a very secure electrical power system. Possibly the best in
> the world.
Put a UPS on the driverack anyway, and remember to check the ups log from a
laptop or whatever. You will then be the first to know whether your
assertion is correct because it logs anything that it considers to be An
event.
> Graham
Kind regards
Peter Larsen
Eeyore
Mike Dobony wrote:
> What about thunderstorms?
Interesting idea but the UK has a very mild atmosphere and such things do not
upset our electricity supply (most of which is underground btw). NO 'pole pigs'
for example.
Graham
Eeyore
Peter Larsen wrote:
> Put a UPS on the driverack anyway, and remember to check the ups log from a
> laptop or whatever. You will then be the first to know whether your
> assertion is correct because it logs anything that it considers to be An
> event.
That wouls certainly give 101% security.
Graham
Ron(UK)
> Hmmm, my last KT graph had an intermittant OP problem
Mine too, in fact it`s still away being fixed.
Ron
Bob Howes
Now you're just being silly, Eeyore. Yeah, the UK electrical system is
pretty good but no system anywhere is perfect. Before moving to Australia,
I probably lived no more than 30 miles from your stated location--and had
one or two outages per year on average, some brief, some lasting hours.
On a professional level, when I was Director of Engineering for a central
London TV company, we had enough issues with mains problems that we finally
had to spend something like £500,000 (say $1 million) on a back up
UPS/Generator system so we could stay on-air during mains outages. Having
such a system was a contractual obligation before we were allowed to provide
live programming for Channel 4 etc.
The backup power system kicked in, on average, once or twice a year.
By all means buy your client a Driverack PA if you want to--your choice. It
won't take much searching of this newsgroup or other industry forums to find
a lot of people who have had blown drivers because of them (and I mean first
hand experience, not "friends of friends) but since you know better, go for
it!
Bob
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
Do tell more.
Graham
Ron(UK)
As a matter of interest Graham, what happens when your venue has a fire
alarm? Here, if the fire alarm trips, the power is automatically cut to
the PA system - we have a back up 'evacuation pa'.
Our local fire officer insists this is the regulation way of doing things.
Ron(UK)
Ron(UK)
I think I mentioned it previously. It just dropped out channel a during
soundcheck. switching it to bypass had no effect, but switching the hpf
switch made the signal return tho in that position merely touching the
toggle would make the signal flop in and out. I swapped out the unit for
a dbx 231 for that show.
A quick inspection showed up some pretty shitty soldering around the
pins of the toggle switch - this is a unit that cost a few pennies short
of a grand! It`s under warranty, so I packed it up and had it despatched.
I`ve been in Belgium for a week and haven't been to the venue yet, so it
may be back by now. I had a beta58 go intermittently distorted and low
output on the same show. that`s back at Thomann now thanks to their 3
year warranty on everything.
Ron(UK)
Eeyore
Bob Howes wrote:
> "Eeyore" wrote
> > Joe L wrote:
> >
> >> Well in Euro, things might be different, but in N America the power grid
> >> is stretched to capacity and beyond and no matter how robust your venue is,
>
> >> it doesn't matter if the area grid goes down
> >
> > It doesn't happen here except in the case of extreme circumstances like
> > 'JCB's accidentally digging up the power cables because they're working on
> sites
> > with poor mapping.
> >
> > We have a very secure electrical power system. Possibly the best in the
> > world.
>
> Now you're just being silly, Eeyore.
No, I'm not.
> Yeah, the UK electrical system is
> pretty good but no system anywhere is perfect.
No, it's NOT perfect. You're quite right. I can recall 2 or 3 outages in the
last 15 years.
Graham.
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > Mike Dobony wrote:
> >
> >> What about thunderstorms?
> >
> > Interesting idea but the UK has a very mild atmosphere and such things do not
> > upset our electricity supply (most of which is underground btw). NO 'pole pigs'
> > for example.
>
> As a matter of interest Graham, what happens when your venue has a fire
> alarm?
Never happened so, I'm at a a loss to even to begin to describe. I suppose the fire
Co. checks must trigger it but I've never been around then.
Graham
Ron(UK)
But is your stage supply via a contactor? and is your FoH from the same
feed? If so, using an UPS may be prudent IF you go the driverack route.
Driverack PA seem to be on special offer from quite a few suppliers btw,
do you think there`s any significance in that, or just that there`s a
glut of stock somewhere?
Ron
bob urz
Keep the patrons in lower lobby. Then let them in the small hall.
started the show, stopped the show. waited 1/2 hour. then restarted the
show with the tornado sirens going. I had to turn up the track to mask
the sirens. And to boot, policy dictates HVAC gets shut off during such
events, so even though we had power, no Cooling. We have a gennie
in the building, but no telling what kind of issues that whole
changeover would have caused. The show must go on......... ;)
Eeyore
"Ron(UK)" wrote:
> Eeyore wrote:
> > "Ron(UK)" wrote:
> >> Eeyore wrote:
> >>> Mike Dobony wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> What about thunderstorms?
> >>> Interesting idea but the UK has a very mild atmosphere and such things do not
> >>> upset our electricity supply (most of which is underground btw). NO 'pole pigs'
> >>> for example.
> >> As a matter of interest Graham, what happens when your venue has a fire
> >> alarm?
> >
> > Never happened so, I'm at a a loss to even to begin to describe. I suppose the fire
> > Co. checks must trigger it but I've never been around then.
>
> But is your stage supply via a contactor?
RCD. Dedicated 32A feed to the amp rack on a CEEFORM.
> and is your FoH from the same feed?
You mean the desk and 'toy rack' ? No.
> If so, using an UPS may be prudent IF you go the driverack route.
That was an entirely differnet conceot,
> Driverack PA seem to be on special offer from quite a few suppliers btw,
> do you think there`s any significance in that, or just that there`s a
> glut of stock somewhere?
No idea to be honest. Loks like a god buy to me.
Graham
Ron(UK)
>
> "Ron(UK)" wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> "Ron(UK)" wrote:
>>>> Eeyore wrote:
>>>>> Mike Dobony wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> What about thunderstorms?
>>>>> Interesting idea but the UK has a very mild atmosphere and such things do not
>>>>> upset our electricity supply (most of which is underground btw). NO 'pole pigs'
>>>>> for example.
>>>> As a matter of interest Graham, what happens when your venue has a fire
>>>> alarm?
>>> Never happened so, I'm at a a loss to even to begin to describe. I suppose the fire
>>> Co. checks must trigger it but I've never been around then.
>> But is your stage supply via a contactor?
>
> RCD. Dedicated 32A feed to the amp rack on a CEEFORM.
As I understand the regs, there should be a contactor in the circuit
which isolates the power to the p.a. in the event of a fire alarm. Tho
maybe the regs vary depending on the type of venue and location, maybe
even on the whim of the local fire officer.
>
>
>> and is your FoH from the same feed?
>
> You mean the desk and 'toy rack' ? No.
I do hope that they are definitely on the same phase. When I started in
my venue, I had the pheses checked and found that the stage had two
separate 32amp feeds on diferent phases, and the FoH was on the third!
Some genius of an electrical contractor must have thought he was
spreading the load!
>
>
>> If so, using an UPS may be prudent IF you go the driverack route.
>
> That was an entirely differnet conceot,
>
>> Driverack PA seem to be on special offer from quite a few suppliers btw,
>> do you think there`s any significance in that, or just that there`s a
>> glut of stock somewhere?
>
> No idea to be honest. Loks like a god buy to me.
>
> Graham
Careful with the spilleng there Graham, you`ll have the TypoPolice on
your case ;)
Ron
Mike Dobony
> Mike Dobony wrote:
>
>> Eeyore wrote:
>>> Joe L wrote:
>>>
>>>> Once again, I question the logic of buying/using gear that has known
>>>> problems in EVERY unit.
>>>
>>> But IS IT an actual problem ?
>>>
>>> Every piece of electronics 'splats' a little on turn on-off. It's a fact of
>>> life.
>>
>> I have never heard of the DEQ blowing drivers on power outages.
>
> You mean Behringer ?
>
Yes.
>
>> It is regularly reported from the Driverack.
>
> Well... not to such a degree so far that I'd fret over it.
>
>
>>>> Why not spend a few extra bucks to buy something in
>>>> the line that does function well without the glitch. Or any of the other
>>>> gear possibilities. For cheap there's the DCX/DEQ option.
>>>
>>> Who ?
>>>
>>>
>>>> But even with a more expensive unit, one should consider it insurance vs the
>>>> possible driver
>>>> replacement costs. Who here can say they've NEVER had a power interuption at
>>>> a gig? Not me.
>>>
>>> Not in this venue. They've had extra phases laid in. And the amp rack is now on
>>> a dedicated 240V 32A (7.8 kW) feed. How many of YOU have that security ? And
>>> this is for a ~ 300 max capacity venue !
>>
>> Please explain how this will stop a power outage or a driver-blowing spike
>> from going down line from the Driverack when power fails.
>
> In the UK, the mains DOES NOT 'drop out' on a whim. We're a FIRST world country, not
> some THIRD world one (seen that enough in India).
>
????? So what? It still drops out. The only protection against such
dropouts is a UPS.
>
>>> Adrian (the boss) is no one's dummy.
>>>
>>>> Some of the same people here that wouldn't take out a piece of Beh gear due
>>>> to a 'possible' failure, would take out a DRPA with a known problem in every
>>>> unit. I don't get it.
>>>
>>> Behr gear has now been effectively 'banned' from this venue. Been there - done
>>> that. No more pissing about with amateur shit.
>>
>> Let's see what we have here. Behringer is not known for blowing drivers,
>> but the pro Driverack does,
>
> PROOF ? Cite ?
>
Didn't you read any of the posts? The DRPA is well known for blowing
drivers on power outages or turning the unit off before the amps. I don't
recall anybody reporting such with the DEQ2496. If somebody has had that
experience, please let us know!
>
>> but the safe Behringer is banned.
>
> NO, were using a BEHR crossover right now. Works alright, just looking for better. We
> use kit that we find does the job. If it doesn't, it gets binned.
>
Wait minute here! You said that Behringer was banned from you venue. Now
you claim they have a Behringer unit. Make up your mind!
>
>> The Behringer xm8500 outperforms the Shure sm58, but it is the better Behringer
>> that is banned?
>
> Uh ? Can you even begin to explain what point you're trying to make there ?
>
You claimed your venue banned Behringer and you claimed it was not pro
quality, yet you now claim to use banned equipment. Please explain that.
Joe L
Well if you understand Murphy's Law, you'll get a power outage within the
first 2 weeks after you get the DRPA. LOL
I agree with the comment to get a UPS with the drive rack.
Maybe it's just 35+ years of doing gigs that has me paranoid, but the old
expression "plan for the worst scenario, and be pleasantly surprised if you
get the best one" tends to float around in my subconscious.
JL
Joe L
"Ron(UK)" <r...@lunevalleyaudio.com> wrote in message
news:M8SdnRzwIoj...@bt.com...
Mine didn't drop out but would decrease in level, not substantial but not
right either. Possibly something simple to fix, yet I could not for the
life of me get it to do it while not at a gig testing the unit. So I
bypassed the problem by getting something newer.
JL
Eeyore
Mike Dobony wrote:
> Wait minute here! You said that Behringer was banned from you venue. Now
> you claim they have a Behringer unit. Make up your mind!
NEW Behringer purchases have been 'banned', or at least that was Adrian's last stance on the
matter.We still have a Composer Pro in the toy rack and the Behringer active x'over in the
amp rack.
Graham