Re: NO Proof of God

[felix_unger]

On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tron...@frizurf.no>
> wrote:
>
>> "Barry OGrady"<ath...@hotmail.com.au> skrev i melding
>> news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
>>> "duke"<duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
>>> news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
>>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
>>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
>>>> And I just told you.
>>> No. You left me to assume.
>>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
>>
>> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
>> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
>>
> > From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own conclusions, unless
>> their ability to do so has been petrified
>> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> had full control he is making God responsible.

regardless 'God created' makes God responsible

>
> =-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
> God is a spirit. 0% proof!


--
rgds,

Pete
-------
“Agnostics frustrate the hell out of atheists because they have no target to fire at”

“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”

“Some atheists are silly enough to argue that non-atheists have no right to an opinion about atheism or to critique it”

The atheists moral dilema .. http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/

“It is absurd self delusion for atheists to claim that they alone should be judged by their self-defining, self-serving, propaganda, rather than the REAL WORLD actions and consequences of atheism throughout history”

"It is a sure thing that science will prove abiogenesis before creationism can disprove Evolution"

“If there were no evidence of God at all, then no one would believe in God. How could they?”

“We do have freedom of speech in Australia, we're just not allowed to exercise it”

"Myself when young did eagerly frequent, doctor and saint and heard great argument, thought it about but evermore, came out the same door wherein I went" -The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám

“Australia enjoys a level of peace, stability, prosperity, and equality that is the envy of many countries in the world. These qualities are related to the Judaeo-Christian principles that have shaped our governance, laws, institutions and general ethos as a nation. - Dr. Philip Freier, Anglican Archbishop of Melbourne”

[Barry OGrady]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com>
wrote:

Agreed.

>--
>rgds,
>
>Pete
>-------

[duke]

On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:

God created man and then gave his free will. God knows who elects to pass and
who elects to fail. Choose wisely.

duke, American - American

*****
1 John 3:4-6
4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
appeared so that he might take away our sins.
And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
sin has either seen him or known him.
*****

[ThomMadura]

SORRY - but that claim cannot be true if the god is ALL KNOWING

IF a god KNEW everything I was going to do =- BEFORE I did it - then at
the time when I make my decision - DO I STILL have the FREE WILL to
choose something the god DOES NOT KNOW?


I can ONLY choose that which the god KNOWS - and I do NOT HAVE FREE
CHOICE at the time I make MY choice-

ANd IF I can only do what the god knows -then the god is responsible for
what I do


THAT is why the christian god cannot be true -the claims cannot be true

God knows who elects to pass and
> who elects to fail.

IF god caused the

[Budikka666]

On Apr 9, 3:39 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
>

> >> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tronf...@frizurf.no>
> >> wrote:
>
> >>> "Barry OGrady"<athe...@hotmail.com.au>  skrev i melding
> >>>news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
> >>>> "duke"<duckgumb...@cox.net>  skrev i melding
> >>>>news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry OGrady<athe...@hotmail.com.au>
> >>>>> wrote:

>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckgumb...@cox.net>  wrote:
> >>>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
> >>>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
> >>>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
> >>>>> And I just told you.
> >>>> No. You left me to assume.
> >>>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
>
> >>> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
> >>> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
>
> >> > From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own conclusions, unless
> >>> their ability to do so has been petrified
> >>> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> >> Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> >> denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> >> had full control he is making God responsible.
>
> >regardless 'God created' makes God responsible
>
> God created man and then gave his free will.  God knows who elects to pass and
> who elects to fail.  Choose wisely.

We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.

Keep running you worthless chicken-shit for Christ.

History of Duke's Endless Cowardice for Christ:
http://groups.google.com/group/talk.atheism/msg/8509d712e6066384

Budikka

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Science rewards us with answers based in reality while objectively
rewarding both success and failure with rationality. Without vague
interpretations, fairy tale books lack the flexibility that science
naturally allows for and readily supports.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess
"There is a fundamental difference between religion, which is based on
authority, [and] science, which is based on observation and reason.
Science will win because it works."
-- Dr. Stephen W. Hawking

[Smiler]

But fairy tale books are _infinitely_ flexible. The faithful can read into
them whatever they wish, even if the words aren't there. AKA apologetics.

--
Smiler,
The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made to
exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[Syd M.]

On Apr 9, 4:39 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
>

> >> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tronf...@frizurf.no>
> >> wrote:
>

> >>> "Barry OGrady"<athe...@hotmail.com.au>  skrev i melding
> >>>news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
> >>>> "duke"<duckgumb...@cox.net>  skrev i melding
> >>>>news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...
> >>>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry OGrady<athe...@hotmail.com.au>
> >>>>> wrote:

>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckgumb...@cox.net>  wrote:
> >>>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
> >>>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
> >>>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
> >>>>> And I just told you.
> >>>> No. You left me to assume.
> >>>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
>
> >>> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
> >>> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
>
> >> > From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own conclusions, unless
> >>> their ability to do so has been petrified
> >>> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> >> Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> >> denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> >> had full control he is making God responsible.
>
> >regardless 'God created' makes God responsible
>
> God created man and then gave his free will.  God knows who elects to pass and
> who elects to fail.  Choose wisely.
>

So, you agree, that 'god' is responcible, then?

PDW

[felix_unger]

that argument is nonsense

>
> ANd IF I can only do what the god knows -then the god is responsible
> for what I do
>
>
> THAT is why the christian god cannot be true -the claims cannot be true
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> God knows who elects to pass and
>> who elects to fail.
>
> IF god caused the

--
rgds,

Pete
-------
“We sensible agnostics laugh in your general direction”

“Agnostics frustrate the hell out of atheists because they have no target to fire at”

“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”

“Some atheists are silly enough to argue that non-atheists have no right to an opinion about atheism or to critique it”

The atheists moral dilema .. http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/

“Atheist NG's are endless posturing, ad hom bitch fights and little else, they are parasitic, sustained by the creative attacks of their opponents and their ritualised, scripted, responses. The vacuum occurs because they only have ONE idea, and that is a mere denial that something exists, an impotent, ineffectual, useless sub branch of Nihilism, not enough to sustain an interesting after dinner chat, let alone a great and enduring civilisation”

“It is absurd self delusion for atheists to claim that they alone should be judged by their self-defining, self-serving, propaganda, rather than the REAL WORLD actions and consequences of atheism throughout history”

“Atheists just piss on the beliefs of others, so why would anyone cast pearls before atheist swine?”

"It is a sure thing that science will prove abiogenesis before creationism can disprove Evolution"

“If there were no evidence of God at all, then no one would believe in God. How could they?”

“My favourite Bible verse .. 1 Timothy 5:23”

[felix_unger]

wow! you've written a book on him! :)

>
> Budikka

[ThomMadura]

YOU are wrong this time felix


IF a god KNOWS I will do ONE THING - before I exist
ANd is claimed to be all knowing

AND I Make MY choice ONLY when I actually exist

At the time I make MY choice - I can ONLY do what the god already KNOWS
I will do - that ONE thing - for the god to remain all knowing


I define FREE CHOICE _ NOT as the existence of options - BUT THE ABILITY
TO FREELY choose among them.


IF I have FREE choice - I can choose to do other things - that the god
does NOT KNOW _ but that eliminates the possibility of ALL KNOWING


So - either you have an all knowing god - or free choice exists - it
cannot be both

[felix_unger]

nope

>
>
> IF a god KNOWS I will do ONE THING - before I exist
> ANd is claimed to be all knowing
>
> AND I Make MY choice ONLY when I actually exist
>
> At the time I make MY choice - I can ONLY do what the god already
> KNOWS I will do - that ONE thing - for the god to remain all knowing
>
>
> I define FREE CHOICE _ NOT as the existence of options - BUT THE
> ABILITY TO FREELY choose among them.
>
>
> IF I have FREE choice - I can choose to do other things - that the god
> does NOT KNOW _ but that eliminates the possibility of ALL KNOWING
>
>
> So - either you have an all knowing god - or free choice exists - it
> cannot be both
>
>

we've been thru all this before.


--
rgds,

Pete
-------

“Agnostics frustrate the hell out of atheists because they have no target to fire at”

“I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”

“Some atheists are silly enough to argue that non-atheists have no right to an opinion about atheism or to critique it”

The atheists moral dilema .. http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/

“It is absurd self delusion for atheists to claim that they alone should be judged by their self-defining, self-serving, propaganda, rather than the REAL WORLD actions and consequences of atheism throughout history”

"It is a sure thing that science will prove abiogenesis before creationism can disprove Evolution"

“If there were no evidence of God at all, then no one would believe in God. How could they?”

[duke]

On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
wrote:

What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
for support. We people of God have all the evidence.

Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great life.
If there is God, shame on you.

For me, it's a win, no win situation.
For you, it's a lose, no win situation.

>Keep running you worthless chicken-shit for Christ.

You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.

[duke]

And she's a guaranteed run and hide rather than face discussion type.

[duke]

Of course. God knows today exactly what you will choose to do as a final act.
Remember, he gave you free choice to make your final move.

>I can ONLY choose that which the god KNOWS - and I do NOT HAVE FREE
>CHOICE at the time I make MY choice-

Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.

[duke]

Hey, it's t-boy. He's as mentally challenged as his old man was.

[duke]

No, he's not, t-boy.

>IF a god KNOWS I will do ONE THING - before I exist
>ANd is claimed to be all knowing
>
>AND I Make MY choice ONLY when I actually exist
>
>At the time I make MY choice - I can ONLY do what the god already KNOWS
>I will do - that ONE thing - for the god to remain all knowing
>
>I define FREE CHOICE _ NOT as the existence of options - BUT THE ABILITY
>TO FREELY choose among them.

And so God freely gives it to you. Do you think the old man did exactly as his
final chosen act that God knew he would Of course he did.

[duke]

Of course. We make our own free choices free of action of others, including
God.

> Without vague
>interpretations, fairy tale books lack the flexibility that science
>naturally allows for and readily supports.

What does science have to do with your mental failures?

[Barry OGrady]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:15:15 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
>wrote:

>>We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
>>shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.
>
>What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
>for support. We people of God have all the evidence.

But none you can present.

>Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great life.
>If there is God, shame on you.

If there is a God shame on God.

>For me, it's a win, no win situation.
>For you, it's a lose, no win situation.

Only if God is a robot which is forced to respond in a
predictable way to 'correct' input.

>>Keep running you worthless chicken-shit for Christ.
>
>You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.

According to some of the God soaked fools God will
leave us in peace if we reject him.

>duke, American - American

[Theo Bekkers]

"duke" wrote

> Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great
> life.
> If there is God, shame on you.

> For me, it's a win, no win situation.
> For you, it's a lose, no win situation.

> You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.

Playing the hell gambit again, are you.

Theo

[Smiler]

Unless you can show me otherwise, you can only choose what your supposed
god supposedly knows you will choose, which is hardly 'free will'. If you
choose any other option, then your supposed god isn't all knowing.

[Theo Bekkers]

"duke" wrote

> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you
> choose to burn in
> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.

We have a TV panel here called Q&A, Questions & Answers, also known as
qanda.

On Sunday evening the panellists were Cardinal George Pell, the head
honcho of the Catholic Church in Australia, and Richard Dawkins.

Poor George got himself tied in many knots, including saying that
there is no reason for atheists to go to hell, and suggesting that, if
there is any justice at all, Hitler was certainly in hell. He also
said that we were descended from Neanderthals, on which Dawkins
corrected him saying they were our cousins, not our ancestors. George
responded by asking where are they if they are our cousins. It didn't
get much better for George after that. He stated that only humans had
souls, there was no Adam and Eve, and then that all animals had souls.

You can watch the episode here http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/

Theo

[Barry OGrady]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.

I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?

How much control did God have as to how we turned out?

>duke, American - American

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

The most important word in your statement is "free," for everyone must
be free to make choices, especially when it comes to freedom of religion
(which also means freedom of no religion). Any restrictions on basic
freedoms to choose things such as these is oppression.

>> Without vague
>> interpretations, fairy tale books lack the flexibility that science
>> naturally allows for and readily supports.
>
> What does science have to do with your mental failures?

That non-sequitur, which is also an ad hominem attack, doesn't help your
position.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"As far as I know there may be whole slews of the critters, but I have
never seen any or any trace of such. So until I see some proof of gods,
I will assume there are none. Like Unicorns."
-- Robert Parker

[ThomMadura]

Typical from christians - the problem is that the actions of their god
in the OLD TEstament would place the god there too

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:44:45 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:15:15 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
>>wrote:
>
>>>We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
>>>shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.
>>
>>What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
>>for support. We people of God have all the evidence.
>
>But none you can present.

Of course I can - the big bang - something from nothing into nothingness.

>>Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great life.
>>If there is God, shame on you.

>>For me, it's a win, no win situation.
>>For you, it's a lose, no win situation.

>Only if God is a robot which is forced to respond in a
>predictable way to 'correct' input.

Nope, I'm a guaranteed winner. You lose.

>>>Keep running you worthless chicken-shit for Christ.
>>You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.

>According to some of the God soaked fools God will
>leave us in peace if we reject him.

Oh, you'll be soaked alright - in gasoline for the fires of hell.

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:57:28 +0800, "Theo Bekkers" <theo...@bigpond.com.au>
wrote:

God says it a guarantee.

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:09:40 +0800, "Theo Bekkers" <theo...@bigpond.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" wrote
>
>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you
>> choose to burn in
>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>
>We have a TV panel here called Q&A, Questions & Answers, also known as
>qanda.
>
>On Sunday evening the panellists were Cardinal George Pell, the head
>honcho of the Catholic Church in Australia, and Richard Dawkins.

Ok.

>Poor George got himself tied in many knots, including saying that
>there is no reason for atheists to go to hell, and suggesting that, if
>there is any justice at all, Hitler was certainly in hell.

Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
them back in.

> He also
>said that we were descended from Neanderthals, on which Dawkins
>corrected him saying they were our cousins, not our ancestors.

Dawkins was desperate to make a point.

> George
>responded by asking where are they if they are our cousins. It didn't
>get much better for George after that. He stated that only humans had
>souls, there was no Adam and Eve, and then that all animals had souls.

And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.

Sounds like Dawkins was too stupid to understand he had been had.

>You can watch the episode here http://www.abc.net.au/tv/qanda/

Heeheehee.

And you were had too.

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>
>I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>
>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?

If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.

[duke]

On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:49:31 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist

And all mankind is free to make choices.

> especially when it comes to freedom of religion
>(which also means freedom of no religion).

Yep.

> Any restrictions on basic
>freedoms to choose things such as these is oppression.

But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
others. And so you burn.

[linuxgal]

duke wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>
> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.

And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
the flames somehow.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

No wonder he ignores everyone's prayers -- the demand for his heating
capacity keeps increasing (according to the religious right-wing-nuts),
which might also explain why Satan does answer prayers (he has a lot of
spare time since he doesn't have to worry about keeping the heat on).

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Terrible."
-- Satan, on The Bible

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Congratulations, Duke, you're finally making progress. I'm so happy for
you.

>> especially when it comes to freedom of religion
>> (which also means freedom of no religion).
>
> Yep.

Another sign of Duke's progress, this is very promising indeed.

>> Any restrictions on basic
>> freedoms to choose things such as these is oppression.
>
> But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
> others. And so you burn.

Oh no, that's disappointing -- coercion is not compatible with freedom,
so now I'm wondering if the effects of your medications just wore off,
or are you bi-polar?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Atheism is no more a belief than not collecting stamps is a hobby."
-- Daniel San

[Barry OGrady]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com>
wrote:

With fiction all things are possible.

[felix_unger]

On 12-April-2012 6:32 AM, duke wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.

what about ppl who have never heard of the Christian message of
sin/hell/forgiveness?

> duke, American - American
>
> *****
> 1 John 3:4-6
> 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact,
> sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he
> appeared so that he might take away our sins.
> And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in
> him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to
> sin has either seen him or known him.
> *****

[hypatiab7]

On Monday, April 9, 2012 8:52:42 PM UTC-4, felix_unger wrote:
> On 10-April-2012 6:47 AM, ThomMadura wrote:
>

> > On 4/9/2012 4:39 PM, duke wrote:
> >> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger<m...@nothere.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tron...@frizurf.no>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> "Barry OGrady"<ath...@hotmail.com.au> skrev i melding
> >>>>> news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
> >>>>>> "duke"<duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
> >>>>>> news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...

> >>>>>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry
> >>>>>>> OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au>

> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
> >>>>>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
> >>>>>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
> >>>>>>> And I just told you.
> >>>>>> No. You left me to assume.
> >>>>>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
> >>>>> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own
> >>>>> conclusions, unless
> >>>>> their ability to do so has been petrified
> >>>>> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> >>>> Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> >>>> denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> >>>> had full control he is making God responsible.
> >>>
> >>> regardless 'God created' makes God responsible
> >>
> >> God created man and then gave his free will.
> >
> >

> > SORRY - but that claim cannot be true if the god is ALL KNOWING
> >
> > IF a god KNEW everything I was going to do =- BEFORE I did it - then
> > at the time when I make my decision - DO I STILL have the FREE WILL to
> > choose something the god DOES NOT KNOW?
> >
> >
> > I can ONLY choose that which the god KNOWS - and I do NOT HAVE FREE
> > CHOICE at the time I make MY choice-
>
> that argument is nonsense
>
> >

> > ANd IF I can only do what the god knows -then the god is responsible
> > for what I do
> >
> >
> > THAT is why the christian god cannot be true -the claims cannot be true

> >
> > God knows who elects to pass and
> >> who elects to fail.
> >

> > IF god caused the

> “I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”
>
> “Some atheists are silly enough to argue that non-atheists have no right to an opinion about atheism or to critique it”
>
> The atheists moral dilema .. http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>

> “Atheist NG's are endless posturing, ad hom bitch fights and little else, they are parasitic, sustained by the creative attacks of their opponents and their ritualised, scripted, responses. The vacuum occurs because they only have ONE idea, and that is a mere denial that something exists, an impotent, ineffectual, useless sub branch of Nihilism, not enough to sustain an interesting after dinner chat, let alone a great and enduring civilisation”

>
> “It is absurd self delusion for atheists to claim that they alone should be judged by their self-defining, self-serving, propaganda, rather than the REAL WORLD actions and consequences of atheism throughout history”
>

> “Atheists just piss on the beliefs of others, so why would anyone cast pearls before atheist swine?”

>
> "It is a sure thing that science will prove abiogenesis before creationism can disprove Evolution"
>
> “If there were no evidence of God at all, then no one would believe in God. How could they?”
>

> “My favourite Bible verse .. 1 Timothy 5:23”

Nah. I don't like booze. I'll stick to Diet Coke for
my tastebuds' sake.

Men created all the gods and religions, so they can preach whatever
lies they want to. It's more than a pity that people like felix and
duke fall for this nonsense.

[hypatiab7]

On Wednesday, April 11, 2012 4:25:42 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 08:57:28 +0800, "Theo Bekkers" <theo...@bigpond.com.au>
> wrote:
>
> >"duke" wrote
> >
> >> Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great
> >> life.
> >> If there is God, shame on you.
> >
> >> For me, it's a win, no win situation.
> >> For you, it's a lose, no win situation.
> >
> >> You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.
>
> >Playing the hell gambit again, are you.
> >Theo
>
> God says it a guarantee.
>

Hey, Earl. If your god speaks to you personally, why didn't
you go into politics?

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:59:18 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com>
wrote:

>On 12-April-2012 6:32 AM, duke wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>
>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>
>what about ppl who have never heard of the Christian message of
>sin/hell/forgiveness?

What about the people who have never heard of ppl?

>> duke, American - American
>
>--
>rgds,
>
>Pete

[hypatiab7]

Duke (Earl Weber) always does that. He thinks he's frightening us.
Then, he goes hee, hee, hee again (He used to write he ,he, he,, but
we finally taught him how to spell his cackling correctly) and we
all know he's still nuts.

[Barry OGrady]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>
>>I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>
>If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.

Thanks Duke.
Can you tell me,

How much control did God have as to how we turned out?

Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?

[Barry OGrady]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:36:02 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:49:31 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
>goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>>The most important word in your statement is "free," for everyone must
>>be free to make choices
>
>And all mankind is free to make choices.

That would only be so if God acted to ensure all our choices
have a good outcome.

>> especially when it comes to freedom of religion
>>(which also means freedom of no religion).
>
>Yep.
>
>> Any restrictions on basic
>>freedoms to choose things such as these is oppression.
>
>But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
>others. And so you burn.

But our choices, with God's help, can easily generate hatred and
misery for others. And so we all burn.

[Barry OGrady]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:25:18 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:44:45 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:15:15 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>>>We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
>>>>shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.
>>>
>>>What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
>>>for support. We people of God have all the evidence.
>>
>>But none you can present.
>
>Of course I can - the big bang - something from nothing into nothingness.

Now prove the big bang then prove God had something to do with it.

>>>Remember, if there is no God, I worried for nothing but had a great life.
>>>If there is God, shame on you.
>>>For me, it's a win, no win situation.
>>>For you, it's a lose, no win situation.
>
>>Only if God is a robot which is forced to respond in a
>>predictable way to 'correct' input.
>
>Nope, I'm a guaranteed winner. You lose.
>
>>>>Keep running you worthless chicken-shit for Christ.
>>>You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.
>
>>According to some of the God soaked fools God will
>>leave us in peace if we reject him.
>
>Oh, you'll be soaked alright - in gasoline for the fires of hell.

I'm glad your God does not exist.

[Barry OGrady]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>them back in.

Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?

>And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
>is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
>scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
>animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.

Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.

[ThomMadura]

If the god was all knowing - before it supposedly created the universe
- then everything that is happening is the ONE THING that can happen -
so it is completely responsible for everything

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be
pleased, although I've yet to meet any):

http://www.ourchurch.com/member/w/w_lasalle/

But if you're not into dogma, perhaps this will at least provide a
somewhat more rational perspective on the matter (although it doesn't
seem to really answer the question at first glance):

http://news.discovery.com/animals/do-pets-go-to-heaven.html

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"We all remember how many religious wars were fought for a religion of
love and gentleness; how many bodies were burned live with the genuinely
kind intention of saving souls from the eternal fire of hell."
-- Karl Popper

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On 2012-Apr-12 02:34, Barry OGrady wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>> living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>> them back in.
>>
>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>>> And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
>>> is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
>>> scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
>>> animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.
>>
>> Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.
>
>Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be

HEAVEN

by: Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)

(One of England's WW1 poets, famous for the war poetry they wrote at
the front. He died in action)

Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
Each secret fishy hope or fear.
Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
But is there anything Beyond?
This life cannot be All, they swear,
For how unpleasant, if it were!
One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
Shall come of Water and of Mud;
And, sure, the reverent eye must see
A Purpose in Liquidity.
We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
The future is not Wholly Dry.
Mud unto mud! -- Death eddies near --
Not here the appointed End, not here!
But somewhere, beyond Space and Time.
Is wetter water, slimier slime!
And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
Who swam ere rivers were begun,
Immense, of fishy form and mind,
Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
And under that Almighty Fin,
The littlest fish may enter in.
Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
But more than mundane weeds are there,
And mud, celestially fair;
Fat caterpillars drift around,
And Paradisal grubs are found;
Unfading moths, immortal flies,
And the worm that never dies.
And in that Heaven of all their wish,
There shall be no more land, say fish.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:30:30 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:25:18 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:44:45 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:15:15 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
>>>>>shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.
>>>>
>>>>What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
>>>>for support. We people of God have all the evidence.
>>>
>>>But none you can present.
>>
>>Of course I can - the big bang - something from nothing into nothingness.
>
>Now prove the big bang then prove God had something to do with it.

The big bang is it's own evidence as certified by the astrophysicists. And God
is the only supreme being that could will creation into being.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:34:57 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>them back in.
>
>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?

Those of you that listen to satan and are just along for the ride.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On 2012-Apr-12 02:34, Barry OGrady wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>> living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>> them back in.
>>
>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>>> And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
>>> is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
>>> scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
>>> animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.
>>
>> Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.
>
>Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be
>pleased, although I've yet to meet any):

Then you don't know, do you?

>http://www.ourchurch.com/member/w/w_lasalle/

>But if you're not into dogma, perhaps this will at least provide a
>somewhat more rational perspective on the matter (although it doesn't
>seem to really answer the question at first glance):
>
>http://news.discovery.com/animals/do-pets-go-to-heaven.html

Do pets fall in love.

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:

He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 15:59:18 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:

>On 12-April-2012 6:32 AM, duke wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>
>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>
>what about ppl who have never heard of the Christian message of
>sin/hell/forgiveness?

If they live the right life style even without knowing Jesus, they will be
saved. Mat 27:51-53.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:30 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>>hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>>
>>>I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>
>>>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>
>>If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>
>Thanks Duke.
>Can you tell me,
>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?

He gave you free will to use everything and figure it out for yourself.

[duke]

You're as big an excuse maker as buckwheat.

[duke]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 19:52:33 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist

Yes, thanks. I'm doing all I can to please God.

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:30:08 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:36:02 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:49:31 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
>>goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>>>The most important word in your statement is "free," for everyone must
>>>be free to make choices
>>
>>And all mankind is free to make choices.
>
>That would only be so if God acted to ensure all our choices
>have a good outcome.

They're your choices. Why wouldn't they have good outcomes.

>>But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
>>others. And so you burn.
>
>But our choices, with God's help, can easily generate hatred and
>misery for others. And so we all burn.

That's your choice.

>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?

It all depends on who you elect to follow.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On 2012-Apr-12 11:05, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
> goddess"<god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2012-Apr-12 02:34, Barry OGrady wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>>> living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>>> them back in.
>>>
>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>
>>>> And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
>>>> is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
>>>> scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
>>>> animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.
>>>
>>> Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.
>>
>> Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be
>> pleased, although I've yet to meet any):
>
> Then you don't know, do you?

Your question is a non-sequitur because I wasn't claiming to know.

>> http://www.ourchurch.com/member/w/w_lasalle/
>
>> But if you're not into dogma, perhaps this will at least provide a
>> somewhat more rational perspective on the matter (although it doesn't
>> seem to really answer the question at first glance):
>>
>> http://news.discovery.com/animals/do-pets-go-to-heaven.html
>
> Do pets fall in love.

I agree.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Physics isn't the most important thing; love is."
-- Richard P. Feynman

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On 2012-Apr-12 11:09, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:39:18 -0400, ThomMadura<Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> On 4/12/2012 4:27 AM, Barry OGrady wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>>>
>>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>>
>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>
>>> Thanks Duke.
>>> Can you tell me,
>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>
>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>> If the god was all knowing - before it supposedly created the universe
>> - then everything that is happening is the ONE THING that can happen -
>> so it is completely responsible for everything
>
> You're as big an excuse maker as buckwheat.

That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.

Who's Buckwheat?

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"When I obtained permission not to have to stand for the Lords Prayer, I
was made to sit in the school office while someone read from the Bible
over the P.A. system directly in front of me."
-- Darwin Bedford (November 2002), Ambassador of Reason

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On 2012-Apr-12 11:08, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:30 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>>>
>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>>
>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>
>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>
>> Thanks Duke.
>> Can you tell me,
>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>
> He gave you free will to use everything and figure it out for yourself.

That clearly justifies atheism and all other forms of freedom of
religion. Nicely done (you're showing progress again)!

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American
people which declared that their legislature should make no law
respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free
exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and
state."
-- Thomas Jefferson, 1802

[Smiler]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:06:14 -0500, duke wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com>
> wrote:
>
>>duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady
>>> <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you
>>>>> choose to burn in hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you
>>>>> want. Heeheehee.
>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee. Who should we blame, God, as
>>>> creator and who has all power and authority, or us who are just along
>>>> fro the ride?
>>>>
>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>
>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>
>>And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>the flames somehow.
>
> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case.
> Heeheehee.
>

How much mass does a soul have?

--
Smiler,
The godless one. a.a.# 2279
All gods are tailored to order. They're made to
exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[linuxgal]

duke wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>
>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>> the flames somehow.
>
> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.

Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy. And that
means God will have to make all that mass to convert into energy to keep
hell burning, which invalidates your claim that burning in hell is all
your own fault. God does his part too, you see.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On 2012-Apr-12 15:40, Smiler wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:06:14 -0500, duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal<linu...@cleanposts.com>
>> wrote:
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady
>>>> <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you
>>>>>> choose to burn in hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you
>>>>>> want. Heeheehee.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee. Who should we blame, God, as
>>>>> creator and who has all power and authority, or us who are just along
>>>>> fro the ride?
>>>>>
>>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>>
>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>
>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>> the flames somehow.
>>
>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case.
>> Heeheehee.
>
> How much mass does a soul have?

It may also be important to ask whether it's been crossed or framed.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"I was raised Catholic, but I was never molested ... and I'm a little
insulted ... I guess they didn't find me attractive."
-- Bill Maher

[hypatiab7]

On Monday, April 9, 2012 4:39:52 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:
> On Mon, 09 Apr 2012 08:11:51 +1000, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
>
> >On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tron...@frizurf.no>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Barry OGrady"<ath...@hotmail.com.au> skrev i melding
> >>> news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
> >>>> "duke"<duckg...@cox.net> skrev i melding
> >>>> news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...

> >>>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
> >>>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
> >>>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
> >>>>> And I just told you.
> >>>> No. You left me to assume.
> >>>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
> >>>
> >>> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
> >>> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
> >>>
> >> > From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own conclusions, unless
> >>> their ability to do so has been petrified
> >>> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> >> Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> >> denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> >> had full control he is making God responsible.
> >
> >regardless 'God created' makes God responsible
>
> God created man and then gave his free will. God knows who elects to pass and
> who elects to fail. Choose wisely.
>

> duke, American - American
>
12 years of Duke (Earl Weber) repeating the same crap and
then threatening us for not believing his nonsense. Then,
he repeats the same crap again expecting a different response.
You all know what psychiatrists say about someone repeating
the same thing over and over an expecting a different response?
Duke is an example of this.

[ThomMadura]

Buckwheat was a character in the old "OUR GANG" comedy shorts that were
originally produced to be shown between features in movie houses (It was
a group of kids - similar in antics to Laurel and Hardy - and the Three
Stooges - along with "Let's put on a show" )but later showed on early
television

[Don Martin]

ThomMadura <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On 4/12/2012 3:48 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:

<snip>

>> That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.
>>
>> Who's Buckwheat?
>>
>
> Buckwheat was a character in the old "OUR GANG" comedy shorts that were
> originally produced to be shown between features in movie houses (It was
> a group of kids - similar in antics to Laurel and Hardy - and the Three
> Stooges - along with "Let's put on a show" )but later showed on early television

I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_ kid.
Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama directly. He's
a christian, you see.

--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:04:39 GMT
Don Martin <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:

> ThomMadura <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > On 4/12/2012 3:48 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> <snip>
>
> >> That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.
> >>
> >> Who's Buckwheat?
> >
> > Buckwheat was a character in the old "OUR GANG" comedy shorts that were
> > originally produced to be shown between features in movie houses (It was
> > a group of kids - similar in antics to Laurel and Hardy - and the Three
> > Stooges - along with "Let's put on a show" )but later showed on early television

I remember that show, it was very popular (I was hoping for Duke's perspective, but he obviously has his reasons for leaving it to others to clean up after him).

> I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_ kid.
> Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama directly. He's
> a christian, you see.

...and this most likely has a lot to do with his reasons for not answering any of my questions that could potentially corner him into appear racist; he's not as dumb as people think, which is why I remain optimistic that he has the potential to progress beyond his theistic thought processes.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess <god...@fidemturbare.com>
"What do you want us to do: worship something, anything, and call it God, just in case? That's ridiculous."
-- Brenda Nelson, EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:53:01 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On 2012-Apr-12 11:08, duke wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:30 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>>>
>>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>>
>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>
>>> Thanks Duke.
>>> Can you tell me,
>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>
>> He gave you free will to use everything and figure it out for yourself.
>
>That clearly justifies atheism and all other forms of freedom of
>religion. Nicely done (you're showing progress again)!

It also signs and seals your eternal fate.

[duke]

Where do you live, the north pole?

[duke]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:

>duke wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>
>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>> the flames somehow.
>>
>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.

>Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
>will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.

The universe contains that.

> And that
>means God will have to make all that mass to convert into energy to keep
>hell burning, which invalidates your claim that burning in hell is all
>your own fault. God does his part too, you see.

Yep, he allows you to choose satan rather than God.

[linuxgal]

duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>>> the flames somehow.
>>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.
>
>> Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
>> will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.
>
> The universe contains that.
>

Nobody knows. That's like standing in an Iowa cornfield with the
horizon 16,000 feet away and saying the Earth contains infinite area.

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Your question is a non-sequitur. It's also not relevant.

Who's Buckwheat in the context of your references to him or her?

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and
conscientious stupidity."
-- Martin Luther King Jr.

[skye...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 10, 5:57 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <theodo...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
> "duke"  wrote
>
> > Remember, if there is no God,  I worried for nothing but had a great
> > life.
> > If there is God, shame on you.
> > For me, it's a win, no win situation.
> > For you, it's a lose, no win situation.
> > You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.
>
> Playing the hell gambit again, are you.

Of course he is. It's all he's got.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox

EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding

skyeyes nine at cox dot net OR
skyeyes nine at yahoo dot com

[skye...@yahoo.com]

On Apr 13, 10:38 am, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"

<godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:04:39 GMT
>

> Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:

> > ThomMadura <Tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > > On 4/12/2012 3:48 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > <snip>
>
> > >> That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.
>
> > >> Who's Buckwheat?
>
> > > Buckwheat was a character in the old "OUR GANG" comedy shorts that were
> > > originally produced to be shown between features in movie houses (It was
> > > a group of kids - similar in antics to Laurel and Hardy - and the Three
> > > Stooges - along with "Let's put on a show" )but later showed on early television
>
> I remember that show, it was very popular (I was hoping for Duke's perspective, but he obviously has his reasons for leaving it to others to clean up after him).
>
> > I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_ kid.
> > Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama directly.  He's
> > a christian, you see.
>
> ...and this most likely has a lot to do with his reasons for not answering any of my questions that could potentially corner him into appear racist; he's not as dumb as people think, which is why I remain optimistic that he has the potential to progress beyond his theistic thought processes.

Never gonna happen. He's been around for a long time, and not one
scintilla of anything we've ever tried to teach him has ever sunk in.
He's so brainwashed as to be uneducatable.

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight of the Golden Litterbox

EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:03:28 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:30:30 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:25:18 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 09:44:45 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:15:15 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Mon, 9 Apr 2012 13:46:04 -0700 (PDT), Budikka666 <budi...@netscape.net>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>We choose fact over fiction and you've been RUNNING for years,
>>>>>>shrinking away like a limp Peter at the passion.
>>>>>
>>>>>What.................fact, dud? That's the whole point. You have zero to use
>>>>>for support. We people of God have all the evidence.
>>>>
>>>>But none you can present.
>>>
>>>Of course I can - the big bang - something from nothing into nothingness.
>>
>>Now prove the big bang then prove God had something to do with it.
>
>The big bang is it's own evidence as certified by the astrophysicists. And God
>is the only supreme being that could will creation into being.

Only two steps left now.
Prove the big bang happened.
Prove God was involved.

>duke, American - American

=-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
God is a spirit. 0% proof!

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:04:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:34:57 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>>living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>>them back in.
>>

>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>

>Those of you that listen to satan and are just along for the ride.

Colossians 1:16 - 17 paraphrased
For by him was Satan created, : Satan was created
by him, and for him:
And he is before Satan, and by him Satan consists.

God works through Satan.

[linuxgal]

Don Martin wrote:

> I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_ kid.
> Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama directly. He's
> a christian, you see.
>

Tammy Bruce does the same thing, but calls Obama "Steve Urkel".

[hypatiab7]

On Friday, April 13, 2012 3:33:05 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>
> >duke wrote:
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> duke wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
> >>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
> >>> the flames somehow.
> >>
> >> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.
>
> >Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
> >will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.
>
> The universe contains that.
>
> > And that
> >means God will have to make all that mass to convert into energy to keep
> >hell burning, which invalidates your claim that burning in hell is all
> >your own fault. God does his part too, you see.
>
> Yep, he allows you to choose satan rather than God.
>
> duke, American - American

Which means that your 'God' is a total monster. And, the fact
that you support such a creature doesn't say much for you.

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:08:59 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:30 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
>>>>>hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>>>>
>>>>I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
>>>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>>>
>>>>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>>>
>>>If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>
>>Thanks Duke.
>>Can you tell me,
>>How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>
>He gave you free will to use everything and figure it out for yourself.

What have you figured out?
If God had full control he is fully responsible.

[hypatiab7]

On Friday, April 13, 2012 3:30:52 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:53:01 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
> goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> >On 2012-Apr-12 11:08, duke wrote:
> >> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:27:30 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
> >>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
> >>>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.
> >>>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
> >>>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
> >>>>
> >>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks Duke.
> >>> Can you tell me,
> >>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
> >>
> >> He gave you free will to use everything and figure it out for yourself.
> >
> >That clearly justifies atheism and all other forms of freedom of
> >religion. Nicely done (you're showing progress again)!
>
> It also signs and seals your eternal fate.
>
> duke, American - American
>

A fact that you gloat over which doesn't say much for you.
You're just like Zachy, in fact, with your threats about hell
and obvious enjoyment over contemplating people being sent there.

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:11:51 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:30:08 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:36:02 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:49:31 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
>>>goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>The most important word in your statement is "free," for everyone must
>>>>be free to make choices
>>>
>>>And all mankind is free to make choices.
>>
>>That would only be so if God acted to ensure all our choices
>>have a good outcome.
>
>They're your choices. Why wouldn't they have good outcomes.

Are you aware of any choices that don't have a good outcome?

>>>But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
>>>others. And so you burn.
>>
>>But our choices, with God's help, can easily generate hatred and
>>misery for others. And so we all burn.
>
>That's your choice.

Does God show his great love by ensuring all our choices
have a good outcome?

>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power

>>and authority, or us who are just along for the ride?

>
>It all depends on who you elect to follow.

You misunderstood.

Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power

and authority, or us who are just along for the ride?

[Barry OGrady]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:33:05 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>
>>duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>>> the flames somehow.
>>>
>>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.
>
>>Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
>>will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.
>
>The universe contains that.
>
>> And that
>>means God will have to make all that mass to convert into energy to keep
>>hell burning, which invalidates your claim that burning in hell is all
>>your own fault. God does his part too, you see.
>
>Yep, he allows you to choose satan rather than God.

Colossians 1:16 - 17 paraphrased
For by him was Satan created, : Satan was created
by him, and for him:
And he is before Satan, and by him Satan consists.

God works through Satan.

[hypatiab7]

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:09:36 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:39:18 -0400, ThomMadura <Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>

> >On 4/12/2012 4:27 AM, Barry OGrady wrote:
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If you choose to burn in
> >>>>> hell, don't blame God for knowing that's what you want. Heeheehee.
> >>>>
> >>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.

> >>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power

> >>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
> >>>>
> >>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
> >>>

> >>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
> >>

> >> Thanks Duke.
> >> Can you tell me,
> >> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
> >>

> >> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power

> >> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
> >>
> >
> >
> >If the god was all knowing - before it supposedly created the universe
> >- then everything that is happening is the ONE THING that can happen -
> >so it is completely responsible for everything
>
> You're as big an excuse maker as buckwheat.
>

> duke, American - American
>
Typical Duke. He can't answer the question so he insults ThomMudura
and makes a racial crack against the President. He tries to change
the subject to cover up his own weakness.

[Barry OGrady]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On 2012-Apr-12 02:34, Barry OGrady wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>> living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>> them back in.
>>

>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>

>>> And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
>>> is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
>>> scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
>>> animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.
>>
>> Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.
>
>Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be
>pleased, although I've yet to meet any):
>
>http://www.ourchurch.com/member/w/w_lasalle/
>
>But if you're not into dogma, perhaps this will at least provide a
>somewhat more rational perspective on the matter (although it doesn't
>seem to really answer the question at first glance):
>
>http://news.discovery.com/animals/do-pets-go-to-heaven.html

Thanks. Are they supposed to be serious?

Why would the same God that presides over so much hate and
suffering create a place where there are only good things?
Why not good things now?
Some Christians insist that God can not care for us without
making us robots. That would mean everybody in heaven and
God are robots.
Most Christians believe God is a robot that responds in a predictable
way to 'correct' input.

>--

>Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:08:31 -0700 (PDT)
"skye...@yahoo.com" <skye...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 13, 10:38 am, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
> <godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:04:39 GMT
> > Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:

[snip]

> > > I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_
> > > kid. Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama
> > > directly.  He's a christian, you see.
> >
> > ...and this most likely has a lot to do with his reasons for not
> > answering any of my questions that could potentially corner him
> > into appear racist; he's not as dumb as people think, which is why
> > I remain optimistic that he has the potential to progress beyond
> > his theistic thought processes.
>
> Never gonna happen. He's been around for a long time, and not one
> scintilla of anything we've ever tried to teach him has ever sunk in.
> He's so brainwashed as to be uneducatable.

He's permanently damaged goods then. That's sad. It's very nice,
however, that people keep trying to help him, and that reflects very
well on the "alt.atheism" community as a whole.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Listen buddy, if I could explain it in fifty words or less, it
wouldn't be worth a Nobel Prize."
-- Richard P. Feynman

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

They do appear to be serious (that was my intention too).

> Why would the same God that presides over so much hate and
> suffering create a place where there are only good things?
> Why not good things now?

That second question is profoundly enlightening because it makes such
a fundamentally excellent point. I'm going to stew over this one all
night and probably all weekend, considering all sorts of different and
interesting scenarios that could be possible "if only."

> Some Christians insist that God can not care for us without
> making us robots. That would mean everybody in heaven and
> God are robots.
> Most Christians believe God is a robot that responds in a predictable
> way to 'correct' input.

Indeed, if that were true, then scientific methodology should be
entirely compatible with it and be capable of validating it as fact with
a great deal of ease.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Properly read, the bible is the most potent force for Atheism ever
conceived."
-- Isaac Asimov

[hypatiab7]

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 1:26:40 PM UTC-4, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:06 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>
> >On 2012-Apr-12 02:34, Barry OGrady wrote:
> >> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
> >>> living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
> >>> them back in.
> >>
> >> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
> >> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
> >>
> >>> And he was right. Only humans have a soul as in what the human soul is, A_dam
> >>> is Greek for mankind with Genesis 1-11 being a faith statement and not a
> >>> scientific statement, and if animals do have souls, whatever that is for
> >>> animals, then they have animal souls, but not human souls.
> >>
> >> Humans are animals, mammals to be specific.
> >
> >Apparently animals do go to heaven (non-atheist cats and dogs will be
>

> HEAVEN
>
> by: Rupert Brooke (1887-1915)
>
> (One of England's WW1 poets, famous for the war poetry they wrote at
> the front. He died in action)

Like the guy who wrote "Trees". WWI wiped out so many British men.
>
> Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
> Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
> Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
> Each secret fishy hope or fear.
> Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
> But is there anything Beyond?
> This life cannot be All, they swear,
> For how unpleasant, if it were!
> One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
> Shall come of Water and of Mud;
> And, sure, the reverent eye must see
> A Purpose in Liquidity.
> We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
> The future is not Wholly Dry.
> Mud unto mud! -- Death eddies near --
> Not here the appointed End, not here!
> But somewhere, beyond Space and Time.
> Is wetter water, slimier slime!
> And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
> Who swam ere rivers were begun,
> Immense, of fishy form and mind,
> Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
> And under that Almighty Fin,
> The littlest fish may enter in.
> Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
> Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
> But more than mundane weeds are there,
> And mud, celestially fair;
> Fat caterpillars drift around,
> And Paradisal grubs are found;
> Unfading moths, immortal flies,
> And the worm that never dies.
> And in that Heaven of all their wish,
> There shall be no more land, say fish.

Ya think Duke is a fish?

[hypatiab7]

On Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:04:20 PM UTC-4, duke wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:34:57 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
> >>living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
> >>them back in.
> >
> >Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
> >and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>

> Those of you that listen to satan and are just along for the ride.
>
>
You just love saying nonsense like that, in the hopes that you'll
scare us. You never have, Duke. Give it up. We refuse to 'live' in
your mental trap.

[hypatiab7]

On Friday, April 13, 2012 7:08:31 PM UTC-4, skye...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Apr 13, 10:38 am, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess"
> <godd...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:04:39 GMT
> >
> > Don Martin <drdonmar...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > > ThomMadura <Tommad...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > > > On 4/12/2012 3:48 PM, Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess wrote:
> > > <snip>
> >
> > > >> That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.
> >
> > > >> Who's Buckwheat?
> >
> > > > Buckwheat was a character in the old "OUR GANG" comedy shorts that were
> > > > originally produced to be shown between features in movie houses (It was
> > > > a group of kids - similar in antics to Laurel and Hardy - and the Three
> > > > Stooges - along with "Let's put on a show" )but later showed on early television
> >
> > I remember that show, it was very popular (I was hoping for Duke's perspective, but he obviously has his reasons for leaving it to others to clean up after him).
> >
> > > I think it is significant to mention that Buckwheat was a _black_ kid.
> > > Duke it too chickenshit to admit his racism vis a vis Obama directly.  He's
> > > a christian, you see.
> >
> > ...and this most likely has a lot to do with his reasons for not answering any of my questions that could potentially corner him into appear racist; he's not as dumb as people think, which is why I remain optimistic that he has the potential to progress beyond his theistic thought processes.
>
> Never gonna happen. He's been around for a long time, and not one
> scintilla of anything we've ever tried to teach him has ever sunk in.
> He's so brainwashed as to be uneducatable.
>

He's scared to death to use the brain he was born with.
What makes it even worse is that he is aware of his fear
and wants to drag us down to his level.

[ThomMadura]

Actually - if a god was ALL KNOWING _ it knew EVERYTHING we would do
BEFORE anything was created - and NO free will exists for anything -
because we make choices only when we are alive - and at that time - we
CANNOT choose something the god does not know - so FREE CHOICE does not
exist

[ThomMadura]

We have good things now- We have apple pie, ice cream - and non
believers too

> Some Christians insist that God can not care for us without
> making us robots. That would mean everybody in heaven and
> God are robots.

IF a god knows everything - then everything is already ordained and it
knows everything that will happen for all time - and nothing will ever
be a surprise.

THAT is one of the reasons why the god of Islam, and the gods of
christianity cannot be real. BOTH claim FREEDOM of choice - but we do
not have the ability to choose something the god does not know - so
there really is no choice

> Most Christians believe God is a robot that responds in a predictable
> way to 'correct' input.

Humans created the god - so they assign the characteristics.
Apparently the god lack emotion and caring - among others

[ilbe...@gmail.com]

On Apr 8, 5:11 pm, felix_unger <m...@nothere.com> wrote:
> On 07-April-2012 4:46 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 7 Apr 2012 05:01:00 +0200, "Tronscend"<tronf...@frizurf.no>
> > wrote:
>
> >> "Barry OGrady"<athe...@hotmail.com.au>  skrev i melding
> >>news:8b8vn7lh0n2ol3kho...@4ax.com...
> >>> "duke"<duckgumb...@cox.net>  skrev i melding
> >>>news:qs1pn7lfi9nheb3jf...@4ax.com...
> >>>> On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 10:27:48 +1000, Barry OGrady<athe...@hotmail.com.au>
> >>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:44:42 -0500, duke<duckgumb...@cox.net>  wrote:
> >>>>>> He created man and then turned man over to evolution.
> >>>>> Thanks, but I was wanting to know
> >>>>> how much control God had on how humans turned out.
> >>>> And I just told you.
> >>> No. You left me to assume.
> >>> How much control did God have on how humans turned out?
>
> >> My point was, that, according to some Babble,
> >> not even a sparrow falls to the ground w/o his knowledge.
>
> > > From this, most anyone would be able to draw their own conclusions, unless
> >> their ability to do so has been petrified
> >> by having their thinking forced to conform to some irrational dogma.
> > Duke is afraid to say. If Duke says God had no control he is
> > denying the bible and putting God down. If Duke says God
> > had full control he is making God responsible.
>
> regardless 'God created' makes God responsible

>
>
>
> > =-=-=-=-==-=-=-=
> > God is a spirit. 0% proof!
>

> --
> rgds,
>
> Pete
> -------
> “Agnostics frustrate the hell out of atheists because they have no target to fire at”
>
> “I'll take a position on the existence of God, when you can tell me why I have to”
>
> “Some atheists are silly enough to argue that non-atheists have no right to an opinion about atheism or to critique it”
>
> The atheists moral dilema ..http://altatheismfaq.blogspot.com/
>
> “It is absurd self delusion for atheists to claim that they alone should be judged by their self-defining, self-serving, propaganda, rather than the REAL WORLD actions and consequences of atheism throughout history”
>
> "It is a sure thing that science will prove abiogenesis before creationism can disprove Evolution"
>
> “If there were no evidence of God at all, then no one would believe in God. How could they?”
>
> “We do have freedom of speech in Australia, we're just not allowed to exercise it”
>
> "Myself when young did eagerly frequent, doctor and saint and heard great argument, thought it about but evermore, came out the same door wherein I went" -The Rubáiyát of Omar Khayyám
>
> “Australia enjoys a level of peace, stability, prosperity, and equality that is the envy of many countries in the world. These qualities are related to the Judaeo-Christian principles that have shaped our governance, laws, institutions and general ethos as a nation. - Dr. Philip Freier, Anglican Archbishop of Melbourne”

Absolutely no proof that One is an 'atheist' (Doesnt have the amount
of faith required to be one)

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

Those are great things. We also have well-written fantasy stories to
engage us and keep us entertained, stories like Lord of the Rings
(which is twice better than a trilogy) and the Harry Potter series
(which teaches many awesome lessons to its younger audience).

We also have people who genuinely like to help others, most of whom
don't expect any sort of awards for it (some won't accept awards
either, which sometimes speaks well of their character).

We also have cats, music, love and also L.O.V.E., plus the capacity to
debate and build (although many people don't persue this because they
find it intimidating).

The list goes on to the disdain of many pessimists. Ha ha!

> > Some Christians insist that God can not care for us without
> > making us robots. That would mean everybody in heaven and
> > God are robots.
>
> IF a god knows everything - then everything is already ordained and
> it knows everything that will happen for all time - and nothing will
> ever be a surprise.
>
> THAT is one of the reasons why the god of Islam, and the gods of
> christianity cannot be real. BOTH claim FREEDOM of choice - but we do
> not have the ability to choose something the god does not know - so
> there really is no choice

The age old contradiction, for which I've not seen a valid defense
from any side yet.

> > Most Christians believe God is a robot that responds in a
> > predictable way to 'correct' input.
>
> Humans created the god - so they assign the characteristics.
> Apparently the god lack emotion and caring - among others

Ha ha! I've even been accused of that, but my "check mate in one move"
response seems to have put an end to that.

--

Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"When we remember that we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life
stands explained."
-- Mark Twain

[Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess]

I've never encountered an atheist trying to prove that they exist, so,
at the risk of generating a red herring, I consider your assertion to be
a misnomer.

--
Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist goddess

"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds
are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her
tribunal for every fact, [and] every opinion. Question with boldness
even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more
approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[duke]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 16:09:53 -0700 (PDT), "skye...@yahoo.com"
<skye...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Apr 10, 5:57 pm, "Theo Bekkers" <theodo...@bigpond.com.au> wrote:
>> "duke"  wrote
>>
>> > Remember, if there is no God,  I worried for nothing but had a great
>> > life.
>> > If there is God, shame on you.
>> > For me, it's a win, no win situation.
>> > For you, it's a lose, no win situation.
>> > You're rushing to the fires of hell, dud.
>>
>> Playing the hell gambit again, are you.
>
>Of course he is. It's all he's got.

But you are your worst enemy, not mine. And you will have to deal with God on
your evil ways. It won't be pleasant for you.

[duke]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:09:42 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:04:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 19:34:57 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:20 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Atheists do not go to hell for failure to comprehend. They go to hell for
>>>>living a life outside the bounds that God draws because their atheism can't pull
>>>>them back in.
>>>
>>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>>
>>Those of you that listen to satan and are just along for the ride.
>
>Colossians 1:16 - 17 paraphrased
>For by him was Satan created, : Satan was created
>by him, and for him:
>And he is before Satan, and by him Satan consists.

Colossians 1:16-17 not paraphrased
16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible
and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things
have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in
him all things hold together.

[duke]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:38:56 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:

>duke wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>
>>> duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>>

>>>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.

>>>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>>>> the flames somehow.
>>>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.
>>
>>> Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
>>> will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.
>>
>> The universe contains that.

>Nobody knows. That's like standing in an Iowa cornfield with the
>horizon 16,000 feet away and saying the Earth contains infinite area.

WEELLLLLLLLLLL, now you're beginning to understand a global flood.

[duke]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:41:38 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 14:31:42 -0500
>duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:48:10 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent
>> atheist goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:

>> >On 2012-Apr-12 11:09, duke wrote:
>> >> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 07:39:18 -0400,
>> >> ThomMadura<Tomm...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >>> On 4/12/2012 4:27 AM, Barry OGrady wrote:
>> >>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:32:46 -0500, duke<duckg...@cox.net>

>> >>>> wrote:

>> >>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 12:12:09 +1000, Barry
>> >>>>> OGrady<ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>> >>>>>> On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 15:20:26 -0500,
>> >>>>>> duke<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Well, it's your final choice. God doesn't control it. If
>> >>>>>>> you choose to burn in hell, don't blame God for knowing
>> >>>>>>> that's what you want. Heeheehee.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I think we should blame God. Heeheehee.

>> >>>>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> >>>>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>> >>>>>>

>> >>>>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>> >>>>>

>> >>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>> >>>>

>> >>>> Thanks Duke.
>> >>>> Can you tell me,

>> >>>> How much control did God have as to how we turned out?
>> >>>>

>> >>>> Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>> >>>> and authority, or us who are just along fro the ride?
>> >>>

>> >>> If the god was all knowing - before it supposedly created the
>> >>> universe
>> >>> - then everything that is happening is the ONE THING that can
>> >>> happen - so it is completely responsible for everything
>> >>
>> >> You're as big an excuse maker as buckwheat.
>> >

>> >That wasn't an excuse, it was a logical assessment of responsibility.
>> >
>> >Who's Buckwheat?
>>

>> Where do you live, the north pole?
>
>Your question is a non-sequitur. It's also not relevant.
>Who's Buckwheat in the context of your references to him or her?

You're showing your ass now.

[duke]

You can't have free will if God is in full control

[linuxgal]

duke wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 12:38:56 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>
>> duke wrote:
>>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:38:01 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 17:47:08 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> duke wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you burn in hell, it's all your fault.
>>>>>> And yet the laws of thermodynamics ensures that God needs to maintain
>>>>>> the flames somehow.
>>>>> He does that by converting mass into energy, fire in this case. Heeheehee.
>>>> Heeheehee....you know that for hell to exist for an infinite time, it
>>>> will require infinite mass converted into infinite energy.
>>> The universe contains that.
>
>> Nobody knows. That's like standing in an Iowa cornfield with the
>> horizon 16,000 feet away and saying the Earth contains infinite area.
>
> WEELLLLLLLLLLL, now you're beginning to understand a global flood.

I don't understand a global flood. I don't understand people who
understand global floods.

[duke]

On Sat, 14 Apr 2012 12:19:06 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:

>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:11:51 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:30:08 +1000, Barry OGrady <ath...@hotmail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 15:36:02 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 10 Apr 2012 22:49:31 -0700, "Fidem Turbare, the non-existent atheist
>>>>goddess" <god...@fidemturbare.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>The most important word in your statement is "free," for everyone must
>>>>>be free to make choices
>>>>
>>>>And all mankind is free to make choices.
>>>
>>>That would only be so if God acted to ensure all our choices
>>>have a good outcome.
>>
>>They're your choices. Why wouldn't they have good outcomes.
>
>Are you aware of any choices that don't have a good outcome?

Yep, turning away from God.

>>>>But your choices, without God's help, can easily generate hatred and misery for
>>>>others. And so you burn.
>>>
>>>But our choices, with God's help, can easily generate hatred and
>>>misery for others. And so we all burn.
>>
>>That's your choice.

>Does God show his great love by ensuring all our choices
>have a good outcome?

Nope, he want's your decision.

>>>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>>>and authority, or us who are just along for the ride?
>>
>>It all depends on who you elect to follow.

>You misunderstood.
>Who should we blame, God, as creator and who has all power
>and authority, or us who are just along for the ride?

You're not. You have a free choice.