Ashcroft
pz
The US Attorney General, protector of the constitution, says:
"Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews -- all understand
that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator.
Civilized people of all religious faiths are called to the defense
of His creation. We are a nation called to defend freedom -- a
freedom that is not the grant of any government or document, but is
our endowment from God."
It's too depressing.
--
pz
redundantman
The Plasmatron
> Why?
Because Ashcroft is making it clear that he considers everyone other
than those 3 types of monotheists to be uncivilized. In other words a
partial list of de-facto uncivilized people is:
Atheists
Wiccans
Pagans
Neo-Pagans
Buddhists
Hindus (The sum of all Buddhists, Hindus, and Atheists is probably
greater than the sum of Muslims, Christians, and Jews)
Spiritualists
Agnostics
Scientologists (ok, I have to agree with this one)
Taoists
Subgenii
Discordians
Javacurians (They have caffiene as their sacrament)
Unitarian Universalists
Mormons (Many christians don't consider mormons to be christian)
Zoroastrians (AKA Zarathustrians)
People who worship the Norse Gods (Yea, some are still around, I just
can't remember what they call themselves)
Memebers of The Church of Natalie Portman and the Latter-Day Ballerinas
(Yes, that church exists and has followers)
And tends of thousands of other religions who's names and beliefs I can't
even begin to remember, each with anywhere from dozends to millions of
followers.
--
The Left Reverend Plasm...@godisdead.com
Melchizedek
"The Plasmatron" <plasmatron@godis*bullshit*dead.com> wrote in message
news:a53h2v$ko8$1...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
Well, your list is correct, but just too short!
redundantman
"The Plasmatron" <plasmatron@godis*bullshit*dead.com> wrote in message
news:a53h2v$ko8$1...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
Seems to me that the quote is not a statement on "who is civilized". Even
taken out of context it appears that this statement seems to be saying
something about the American understanding of freedom?
pz
"redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
*Some* Americans. I, for one, do not consider my freedom to have been
granted by some nebulous nonexistent being, and would consider it to be
in peril if it were to be administered by the received wisdom of
self-proclaimed servants of said NNB.
--
pz
Termite of Temptation
"redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c75517e$1...@newsa.ev1.net...
The phrase "Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews..." makes it
perfectly clear that he simply clarifying what he means by civilized people.
Duncan
redundantman
"Termite of Temptation" <womanl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:IMcd8.6158$hM6.7...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com...
Well yeah, but it doesn't appear to be the focal point of the quote and only
an idiot assumes that he's giving an exhaustive listing of all people he
considers to be "civilized" in a quote on an entirely different topic.
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
The Plasmatron
You mean the final entry should have been "Hundreds of thousands of other
religions"? Quite possibly true now that I think about it...
Jeremy Martin
> The phrase "Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews..." makes
> it perfectly clear that he simply clarifying what he means by
> civilized people.
Unless he isn't speaking English, it's pretty damn clear that's what he
meant. It may have been unintentional, but his words are there for
everyone to see.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"God is not on the side of the big battalions, but on the side of those
who shoot best." - Voltaire
redundantman
Look, he's most likely just referencing this often quoted excerpt from the
Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,
that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that
among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
Regardless of whether you agree with these primitive and uneducated
composers of this document the point they are trying to make and the point
Ashcroft was most likely eluding to is that your freedom was granted to you
by something other than another man, therefore, no man can ever rightly take
it away from you.
However, I wonder what the statistics are on the religion of the lawmakers
in the course of American history. Things appear to have gone well enough
up until this point, I wonder if any of the Presidents or Congressmen were
Christians. Most likely not because everyone knows that Christians are
entirely consumed with a desire to force other people to follow their faith
system and if nothing else it seems that that is not coming to pass.
Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
>
> --
> pz
The Plasmatron
He states quite clearly that he believes that civilized people all
understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the
Creator. Well, here's a partial list of people who do not believe in ANY
sort of a creator:
Atheists
Agnostics
Buddhists
Taoists
Pantheists (The universe IS god)
Subgenii
Many Pagans, Neo-Pagans, Wiccans, and so on have no deity that created the
world rather than the other way round. Many simply have the world as
one of their deities.
Those who believe in the Greek Gods (The world gave birth to the parents
and aunts and uncles of the gods. Essentially she caused the creation
of the gods, not the other way round)
Those who believe in many so called "primitive" religions have the gods
created by the world rather than the other way round, or otherwise have
the world exist before the gods.
To put it bluntly there are *plenty* who do not have a creator deity
for one reason or another. Either because the world or the universe IS a
god or because it predates the gods or because some religions SIMPLY DON'T
HAVE ANY GODS. Yes, that's right. Quite a few versions of Buddhism are
atheistic. Heck, can you study Taoism and call the Tao a god, with a
straight face? Heck, I have a friend who considers himself a practicing
Jew even though he is an atheist. As he explains he still follows the 10
commandments and such, since it just says to worship no other gods, not
that he has to worship YHVH.
pz
"redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Really? I have no problem with someone saying my freedom is provided by
the rule of law, or the constitution...something other than another man.
Contrary to what you are claiming, though, that's not what Ashcroft
said. He was a bit more specific than that. He said my freedom is NOT a
grant from government or a document, but "is our endowment from God."
Are you having a bit of a reading comprehension problem? What he said
directly contradicts what you suggest that he might have been implying.
>
> However, I wonder what the statistics are on the religion of the lawmakers
> in the course of American history. Things appear to have gone well enough
> up until this point, I wonder if any of the Presidents or Congressmen were
> Christians. Most likely not because everyone knows that Christians are
> entirely consumed with a desire to force other people to follow their faith
> system and if nothing else it seems that that is not coming to pass.
No, I don't think most christians are consumed with any such desire.
Look at the subject line: nobody is accusing christians in general of
such a thing, the target of criticism is specifically *Ashcroft*.
> Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
Your logic makes no sense. Previous members of the American government
have been christians, therefore Ashcroft cannot possibly be a
reactionary evangelical christian who favors a theocracy?
--
pz
Robert M. Templeton
<redund...@hotmail.com>'s mind:
>
>"Termite of Temptation" <womanl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
<snip>
>> The phrase "Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews..." makes it
>> perfectly clear that he simply clarifying what he means by civilized
>people.
>
>Well yeah, but it doesn't appear to be the focal point of the quote and only
>an idiot assumes that he's giving an exhaustive listing of all people he
>considers to be "civilized" in a quote on an entirely different topic.
Why not just say "Civilized people - human beings" and be done with it? Could
even drop the "human beings" and it would be clear that the intention would be
people living within a civilized nation.
He intentionally focuses attention on what a "civilized person" is by
qualifying it with "Muslims, Christians, and Jews". IIRC, Herr Hitler used
the same tactics in defining civilized people as "blue-eyed, blonde haired
Germanics" (IOW: Aryans), thereby making it easier to demonize and subhumanize
other groups of people (Jews, physically handicapped, mentally handicapped,
homosexuals, Poles, Russians, and so on as needed).
Was it not Pres. George Bush who said something to the effect that atheists
were not citizens of the United States? Same rhetoric, different day. To
rebut Ashcroft's use of the Declaration of Independence, it also declares
something interesting concerning these types of infringements and derogations:
"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form
of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People
to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to
them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
If it comes to it, I will be on the side fighting for the rights of humans,
not for the rights of the government.
Robert M. Templeton
--
a.a. #a++
Carol Lee Smith
excusing what he said. It is insulting and inconsiderate no matter to
whom he said it.
There are many very religious people who either believe in no creator, or
believe in multiple gods.
Last night on Alan Keyes' program "Alan Keyes Is Making Sense," February
20, Annie Laurie Gaylor and Barry Lynn appeared to oppose vouchers.
Supporting vouchers along with Keyes was Caroline Hoxby of Harvard. She
claimed that her study of the Milwaukee Choice program indicated that
schools which faced competition actually improved. Barry Lynn said that
is not so.
In the segment following Gaylor and Lynn, Senator Loretta Sanchez, D,
California Education Committee also opposed vouchers.
Considering the audience he was addressing in the clip, Ashcroft was
"preaching to the choir."
This is what transpired:
Alan Keyes [AK]: "Speaking of the separation of church and state, here's
my outrage for the day: This is what attorney General John Ashcroft said
to the National Religious Broadcasters Association the other day:"
[Ashcroft:] "Civilized individuals, Christians, Jews and Muslims, all
understand that the source of freedoms and human dignity is the creator."
AK: "And here's how Robert Boston of Americans United for Separation of
Church and State responded:"
Rob Boston: "One of the things he's [Ashcroft] never understood is that
true pluralism in our society includes those who would chose not to
believe, and there are millions of Americans who fall under that
umbrella."
AK [shaking his finger at the camera]: "Well, one of the things that Mr.
Boston ought to understand is that the founders of this country put in the
Declaration of Independence these clear words: 'We hold these truths to
be self evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain
unalienable rights.' When a public official refers to the creator in that
sense he is not borrowing from some religion, he is actually standing on
the strong common ground of the American creed. Does Mr. Boston think we
ought to throw the Declaration out the window in order to appease the
feelings of a few folks who feel uncomfortable every time they hear even
the slightest hint of god mentioned anywhere in America? I think not,
because our freedoms would go out the window with those principles.
That's my sense of it this evening."
Keyes' eddress, as flashed on the screen during the program was:
alan...@msnbc.com - there was also a phone number.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears as though http://www.msnbc.com/news/alankeyeshidden_front.asp
has transcripts through Feb. 14, so more of the program may be available
later.
"All religions are founded on the fear of the many and the cleverness of
the few." -- Marie Henri Beyle (Stendhal)
pz
<Pine.OSF.3.96.102022...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
This doesn't make sense (but then, Alan Keyes rarely does). Are we to
believe that Ashcroft was restricting his limited vision of who the
civilized people are to "Muslims, Christians and Jews" who also happen
to be United States citizens? I rather doubt that Muslims in Algeria,
for instance, consider the American Declaration of Independence to be a
sacred document that is central to their understanding of freedom.
Carol Lee Smith
> Was it not Pres. George Bush who said something to the effect that atheists
> were not citizens of the United States? Same rhetoric, different day.
George Herbert Walker Bush was the culprit.
He delared: "I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens,
nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
The date was August 27, 1987.
August Pamplona
news:ajra7uk2uto74afl4...@4ax.com...
Yes, Bush Sr. (though Jr. has made some remarks which make it rather
apparent that religious tolerance might not be one of his virtues).
August Pamplona
--
"They are a little bit smelly, and there's something about the way they move
their antennae. But they look nicer when you put a little circuit on their
backs and remove their wings."
--Raphael Holzer
a.a. # 1811
To email replace 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'
Lord Calvert
>composers of this document the point they are trying to make and the point
>Ashcroft was most likely eluding to is that your freedom was granted to you
>by something other than another man, therefore, no man can ever rightly take
>it away from you.
Jefferson was primitive and uneducated? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
>Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
"America has been different. We have no king but Jesus" - Senator John
Ashcroft, from a speech at Bob Jones University in 1999.
Yes...he's the boogeyman.
Rich Goranson, Amherst, NY, USA (aa#MCMXCIX)
"When dogma enters the brain, all intellectual activity ceases." - Robert Anton
Wilson
Sean C
> Last night on Alan Keyes' program "Alan Keyes Is Making Sense,"
So Alan Keyes thinks Alan Keyes is making sense? Or did he just
misspell "cents?"
Anybody who gave this nimrod his own program has no sense, but I'm glad
to see the atheist community is watching for amusement. Probably more
fun than TBN, I imagine.
Sean C
Dr. Smartass
news:220220020314086596%red...@hvc.rr.com:
I sat through maybe 20 minutes, just to see whether he started making sense
or not...he was talking about Harry Potter books. I lost interest when he
started sounding religious, so I really don't remember his stance on it.
I've since found more entertainment in painting my room nightly just to
watch it dry *g*
--
Dr. Smartass
aa11110010011 / BAAWA Mad Scientist, Medicine Man, and Troll Veterinarian
"He who began Good Works in you will perform them until the days of
Christ"--or until that priest is arrested. (Doc. S.)
redundantman
Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea that life,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that have been granted to us
by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
>
> >
> > However, I wonder what the statistics are on the religion of the
lawmakers
> > in the course of American history. Things appear to have gone well
enough
> > up until this point, I wonder if any of the Presidents or Congressmen
were
> > Christians. Most likely not because everyone knows that Christians are
> > entirely consumed with a desire to force other people to follow their
faith
> > system and if nothing else it seems that that is not coming to pass.
>
> No, I don't think most christians are consumed with any such desire.
> Look at the subject line: nobody is accusing christians in general of
> such a thing, the target of criticism is specifically *Ashcroft*.
>
>
> > Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
>
> Your logic makes no sense. Previous members of the American government
> have been christians, therefore Ashcroft cannot possibly be a
> reactionary evangelical christian who favors a theocracy?
Actually I was just arguing to argue. I'd haven't seen the quote in full
and I thought it would be fun to take the other side of the argument.
Thanks for being so cool about it. Ashcroft is who he is, some would say
its foolish to expect the best of people.
>
> --
> pz
redundantman
"Lord Calvert" <forl...@aol.complicated> wrote in message
news:20020221183907...@mb-fk.aol.com...
> >Regardless of whether you agree with these primitive and uneducated
> >composers of this document the point they are trying to make and the
point
> >Ashcroft was most likely eluding to is that your freedom was granted to
you
> >by something other than another man, therefore, no man can ever rightly
take
> >it away from you.
>
> Jefferson was primitive and uneducated? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA!!!
I was being facetious. I have a lot of respect for the intellectual
prowress of the founding fathers.
>
> >Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
>
> "America has been different. We have no king but Jesus" - Senator John
> Ashcroft, from a speech at Bob Jones University in 1999.
>
> Yes...he's the boogeyman.
I wonder what the context of this speech is? I wouldn't be suprised if he
was comparing America to Great Britain and illustrating that the founding
fathers understood our rights derive not from the King of England, but the
"King" of Creation? Do you know where the entire text of that particular
speech can be located?
Christopher A. Lee
<redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Really? I have no problem with someone saying my freedom is provided by
>> the rule of law, or the constitution...something other than another man.
>> Contrary to what you are claiming, though, that's not what Ashcroft
>> said. He was a bit more specific than that. He said my freedom is NOT a
>> grant from government or a document, but "is our endowment from God."
>>
>> Are you having a bit of a reading comprehension problem? What he said
>> directly contradicts what you suggest that he might have been implying.
>
>Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea that life,
>liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that have been granted to us
>by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your deity. I
was created by my parents. Which means I have certain innate rights.
The constitution enshrines those rights into law.
What a maroon.
Christopher A. Lee
<redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I wonder what the context of this speech is? I wouldn't be suprised if he
>was comparing America to Great Britain and illustrating that the founding
>fathers understood our rights derive not from the King of England, but the
>"King" of Creation? Do you know where the entire text of that particular
>speech can be located?
Only if you're too stupid to realise that the modern fundies are a
more recent phenomenon a century or so after the founding fathers.
And that the founding fathers understood no such thing.
What a maroon.
redundantman
"Robert M. Templeton" <tem...@nospamvplayground.com> wrote in message
news:ajra7uk2uto74afl4...@4ax.com...
"redundantman"
> <redund...@hotmail.com>'s mind:
>
> >
> >"Termite of Temptation" <womanl...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> <snip>
>
> >> The phrase "Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews..." makes
it
> >> perfectly clear that he simply clarifying what he means by civilized
> >people.
> >
> >Well yeah, but it doesn't appear to be the focal point of the quote and
only
> >an idiot assumes that he's giving an exhaustive listing of all people he
> >considers to be "civilized" in a quote on an entirely different topic.
>
> Why not just say "Civilized people - human beings" and be done with it?
Could
> even drop the "human beings" and it would be clear that the intention
would be
> people living within a civilized nation.
Awww man, come ON. We have this out of context quote about which you want
to debate word choice?! You can't be serious. Without reading the entire
text and taking into consideration his audience we are simply blathering
about nothing at all. Perhaps the context mandated that he include Muslims
in a mix with Christians and Jews. I don't know, but I'm willing to give
him the benefit of the doubt and hear him out about it.
>
> He intentionally focuses attention on what a "civilized person" is by
> qualifying it with "Muslims, Christians, and Jews". IIRC, Herr Hitler
used
> the same tactics in defining civilized people as "blue-eyed, blonde haired
> Germanics" (IOW: Aryans), thereby making it easier to demonize and
subhumanize
> other groups of people (Jews, physically handicapped, mentally
handicapped,
> homosexuals, Poles, Russians, and so on as needed).
Possibly, but as we all know, anecdotal evidence is good for nothing more
than proving that anecdotal evidence is irrelevant.
>
> Was it not Pres. George Bush who said something to the effect that
atheists
> were not citizens of the United States?
I thought I saw a quote to that effect somewhere ...
http://www.visi.com/~markg/shame.html
...hm ... W supports the seperation of church and state! I guess Atheists
the world over will rise up and call his name blessed now huh? ... oh wait,
that's not a good sound bite. Lets just ignore that and focus on what we
can make hay out of instead.
Same rhetoric, different day. To
> rebut Ashcroft's use of the Declaration of Independence, it also declares
> something interesting concerning these types of infringements and
derogations:
>
> "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men,
deriving
> their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any
Form
> of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the
People
> to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its
> foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as
to
> them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
>
> If it comes to it, I will be on the side fighting for the rights of
humans,
> not for the rights of the government.
I'd be honored to join you in that fight. Govt sucks.
redundantman
Well none of those people appeared to take part in writing the Declaration
of Independence then ..... Man does not grant out freedom, therefore no man
can rightfully take our freedom away.
Christopher A. Lee
<redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Well none of those people appeared to take part in writing the Declaration
>of Independence then ..... Man does not grant out freedom, therefore no man
>can rightfully take our freedom away.
Neither do pretend friends. We are born with certain innate rights.
NOBODY gives them to us. They're ours by right of being born.
What a maroon.
redundantman
"Christopher A. Lee" <chri...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:55ec7u8drrat9tadq...@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:20:30 -0600, "redundantman"
> <redund...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >> Really? I have no problem with someone saying my freedom is provided by
> >> the rule of law, or the constitution...something other than another
man.
> >> Contrary to what you are claiming, though, that's not what Ashcroft
> >> said. He was a bit more specific than that. He said my freedom is NOT a
> >> grant from government or a document, but "is our endowment from God."
> >>
> >> Are you having a bit of a reading comprehension problem? What he said
> >> directly contradicts what you suggest that he might have been implying.
> >
> >Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea that
life,
> >liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that have been granted to
us
> >by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
>
> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your deity. I
> was created by my parents.
who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
redundantman
I say it, therefore it is true.
redundantman
So you didn't write the Declaration of Independence?
Mark Whickman
Lord Calvert
>>
>> "America has been different. We have no king but Jesus" - Senator John
>> Ashcroft, from a speech at Bob Jones University in 1999.
>>
>> Yes...he's the boogeyman.
>
>I wonder what the context of this speech is? I wouldn't be suprised if he
>was comparing America to Great Britain and illustrating that the founding
>fathers understood our rights derive not from the King of England, but the
>"King" of Creation? Do you know where the entire text of that particular
>speech can be located?
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ashcroft_bjutranscript01
0112.html
Here is the full, in context quote.
"Thank you very much, Dr. Bob. I want to thank each of you for investing
yourselves in the mission of Christ — in redemption and forgiveness, and for
preparing yourselves in the way that you have.
A slogan of the American Revolution which was so distressing to the emissaries
of the king that it was found in correspondence sent back to England was the
line, "We have no king but Jesus." Tax collectors came, asking for that which
belonged to the king, and colonists frequently said, "We have no king but
Jesus." It found its way into the fundamental documents of this great country.
You could quote the Declaration with me. "We hold these truths to be
self-evident that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their Creator
with certain inalienable rights." Unique among the nations, America recognized
the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic and
temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal, America
has been different. We have no king but Jesus."
It is basically a refutation of the words and deeds of the founding fathers and
the erroneous belief that they set up a Christian State, like Calvin's
dictatorial Geneva.
redundantman
"Mark Whickman" <mark.w...@ic.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:a55jkt$ne7$1...@jura.cc.ic.ac.uk...
Sure thing! But first you must prove that you took a shower yesterday.
redundantman
"Lord Calvert" <forl...@aol.complicated> wrote in message
> >> >Maybe Ashcroft isn't the boogeyman after all.
> >>
> >> "America has been different. We have no king but Jesus" - Senator John
> >> Ashcroft, from a speech at Bob Jones University in 1999.
> >>
> >> Yes...he's the boogeyman.
> >
> >I wonder what the context of this speech is? I wouldn't be suprised if
he
> >was comparing America to Great Britain and illustrating that the founding
> >fathers understood our rights derive not from the King of England, but
the
> >"King" of Creation? Do you know where the entire text of that particular
> >speech can be located?
>
> http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/ashcroft_bjutranscript01
> 0112.html
>
> Here is the full, in context quote.
>
> "Thank you very much, Dr. Bob. I want to thank each of you for investing
for
> preparing yourselves in the way that you have.
> A slogan of the American Revolution which was so distressing to the
emissaries
> of the king that it was found in correspondence sent back to England was
the
> line, "We have no king but Jesus." Tax collectors came, asking for that
which
> belonged to the king, and colonists frequently said, "We have no king but
> Jesus." It found its way into the fundamental documents of this great
country.
> You could quote the Declaration with me. "We hold these truths to be
> self-evident that all men are created equal, and are endowed by their
Creator
> with certain inalienable rights." Unique among the nations, America
recognized
> the source of our character as being godly and eternal, not being civic
and
> temporal. And because we have understood that our source is eternal,
America
> has been different. We have no king but Jesus."
ah! interesting quote. Thanks!
Mark Whickman
Easy, I share a room, just ask my room mate. If you want corroborating
evidence, sniff my pits!
Jeremy Martin
>> > Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea
>> > that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that
>> > have been granted to us by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
>>
>> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your deity. I
>> was created by my parents.
>
> who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
Just like you, your parents were created by their own parents. Boy,
Christers get more silly every day.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"I'm not a nerd. I'm a pale friendless virgin."
- XeeD, SA Forums
redundantman
ewww! No thanks. That's not the kid of evidence I prefer.
>
>
redundantman
"Jeremy Martin" <jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com> wrote in message
news:Xns91BD638E574D2je...@209.249.90.101...
> [alt.atheism] redundantman (redund...@hotmail.com):
>
> >> > Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea
> >> > that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that
> >> > have been granted to us by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
> >>
> >> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your deity. I
> >> was created by my parents.
> >
> > who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
>
> Just like you, your parents were created by their own parents. Boy,
> Christers get more silly every day.
You lost me, that makes no sense.
Mark Whickman
The Plasmatron
Goodness, are you so delusional that you think any of the authors of
the Declaration of independance are still alive, or what?
The Plasmatron
> "The Plasmatron" <plasmatron@godis*bullshit*dead.com> wrote in message
> news:a53ouo$ogs$1...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
>> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:07:35 -0600 redundantman <redund...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> > "The Plasmatron" <plasmatron@godis*bullshit*dead.com> wrote in message
>> > news:a53h2v$ko8$1...@coward.ks.cc.utah.edu...
>> >> On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:34:26 -0600 redundantman
> <redund...@hotmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > Seems to me that the quote is not a statement on "who is civilized".
> Even
>> > taken out of context it appears that this statement seems to be saying
>> > something about the American understanding of freedom?
>>
>> He states quite clearly that he believes that civilized people all
>> understand that the source of freedom and human dignity is the
>> Creator. Well, here's a partial list of people who do not believe in ANY
>> sort of a creator:
> Well none of those people appeared to take part in writing the Declaration
> of Independence then ..... Man does not grant out freedom, therefore no man
> can rightfully take our freedom away.
The Declaration of Independence is not holy writ. The country is not
based on it as it is based on the Constitution. Even if it was, what
right does that give Ashcroft to pass judgment that the peoples of other
nations which do NOT believe in a god who is the source of freedom and
such are uncivilized?
Robibnikoff
Nice dodge - put up or shut up.
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
Delighted Member of SMASH
#1557
Chris Nelson
>
> "Jeremy Martin" <jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns91BD638E574D2je...@209.249.90.101...
> > [alt.atheism] redundantman (redund...@hotmail.com):
> >
> > >> > Nah. I thought the thrust of the quote indicated that DOI idea
> > >> > that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are rights that
> > >> > have been granted to us by a Creator. Sorry for any confusion.
> > >>
> > >> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your deity. I
> > >> was created by my parents.
> > >
> > > who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
> >
> > Just like you, your parents were created by their own parents. Boy,
> > Christers get more silly every day.
>
> You lost me, that makes no sense.
Your parents were each created by their parents (your grandparents) And
they, in turn, were created by their parents (your great-grandparents). And
so on.
No deity involved.
--
Chris
AUDIO VIDEO DISCO - "I hear, I see, I learn"
Carol Lee Smith
<<Actually I was just arguing to argue. I'd haven't seen the quote in
full and I thought it would be fun to take the other side of the argument.
Thanks for being so cool about it. Ashcroft is who he is, some would say
its foolish to expect the best of people.>>
someone posted a more full quote on this newsgroup, but this is what I
posted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Considering the audience he was addressing in the clip, Ashcroft was
"preaching to the choir."
This is what transpired:
Alan Keyes [AK]: "Speaking of the separation of church and state, here's
my outrage for the day: This is what attorney General John Ashcroft said
to the National Religious Broadcasters Association the other day:"
[Ashcroft:] "Civilized individuals, Christians, Jews and Muslims, all
understand that the source of freedoms and human dignity is the creator."
AK: "And here's how Robert Boston of Americans United for Separation of
Church and State responded:"
Rob Boston: "One of the things he's [Ashcroft] never understood is that
true pluralism in our society includes those who would chose not to
believe, and there are millions of Americans who fall under that
umbrella."
AK [shaking his finger at the camera]: "Well, one of the things that Mr.
Boston ought to understand is that the founders of this country put in the
Declaration of Independence these clear words: 'We hold these truths to
be self evident, that all men are endowed by their creator with certain
unalienable rights.' When a public official refers to the creator in that
sense he is not borrowing from some religion, he is actually standing on
the strong common ground of the American creed. Does Mr. Boston think we
ought to throw the Declaration out the window in order to appease the
feelings of a few folks who feel uncomfortable every time they hear even
the slightest hint of god mentioned anywhere in America? I think not,
because our freedoms would go out the window with those principles.
That's my sense of it this evening."
Keyes' eddress, as flashed on the screen during the program was:
alan...@msnbc.com - there was also a phone number.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It appears as though http://www.msnbc.com/news/alankeyeshidden_front.asp
Carol Lee Smith
> What a maroon.
Is that a racial slur?
Brian Westley
No, a rabbit slur.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Robibnikoff
Lee Smith says...
>
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>> What a maroon.
>
>Is that a racial slur?
Either you're just kidding (I hope) or you've never watched Bugs Bunny.
Mark Whickman
Brian Westley <wes...@visi.com> wrote in message
news:Lqwd8.1510$N7.2...@ruti.visi.com...
What's up Doc?
Mark Whickman
Robibnikoff <nos...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:Rxwd8.3366$15....@www.newsranger.com...
> In article <Pine.OSF.3.96.102022...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
Carol
> Lee Smith says...
> >
> >On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> >> What a maroon.
> >
> >Is that a racial slur?
>
> Either you're just kidding (I hope) or you've never watched Bugs Bunny.
>
Robibnikoff
Firecracker, firecracker, siss boom baa!
Bugs Bunny, Bugs Bunny!
Rah, rah, rah!!
He don't know me very well, do he?
:)
pz
<Pine.OSF.3.96.102022...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu>,
Do you think he's insulting people with dark purple skin?
--
pz
redundantman
redundantman
That would be more of a waste of time than trying to get into John
Ashcroft's head based on oe oout of context quote.
redundantman
"Chris Nelson"
<cris...@insightBBB.Replace_BBB_with_BB_and_put_dot-com_after_it> wrote in
message news:v9wd8.207$vP....@rwcrnsc51.ops.asp.att.net...
You've never met my grandmother ...
So, infinite numbers of ancestors. Makes for a crowded family reunion.
redundantman
Are you so delusional as to think there's a point to this thread?
redundantman
What right do you have to pass judgement on his passing judgement?
gads this thread really sucks, you know it?!
Sean C
<nos...@newsranger.com> wrote:
> In article <a5648a$t3j$1...@jura.cc.ic.ac.uk>, Mark Whickman says...
> >
> >
> >Brian Westley <wes...@visi.com> wrote in message
> >news:Lqwd8.1510$N7.2...@ruti.visi.com...
> >> Carol Lee Smith <hu...@csd.uwm.edu> writes:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> >> >> What a maroon.
> >>
> >> >Is that a racial slur?
> >>
> >> No, a rabbit slur.
> >>
> >
> >What's up Doc?
>
> Firecracker, firecracker, siss boom baa!
> Bugs Bunny, Bugs Bunny!
> Rah, rah, rah!!
>
> He don't know me very well, do he?
>
> :)
>
Maybe he's suffering from Rabbititis!
Let's give him a twusty shotgun, and have him moiderlize that bum,
Asscrack.
Hey, anyone ever hear Metallica's song, "Kill the Wabbit?" It's
hilarious.
Sean C
Jeremy Martin
>> >> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your
>> >> deity. I was created by my parents.
>> >
>> > who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
>>
>> Just like you, your parents were created by their own parents. Boy,
>> Christers get more silly every day.
>
> You lost me, that makes no sense.
I'm not surprised that you're lost on common sense and reality.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"There is no sense to me in elevating somebody above everybody else just
because they show their tits off." - Bobby, SA Forums
Mark Whickman
Sean C <red...@hvc.rr.com> wrote in message
news:220220021502004253%red...@hvc.rr.com...
And the night air echos! KILL THE WABBIT!
Mark Whickman
*Gets very angry and beats redundantman to death with a cumberland sausage*
*snarl*
redundantman
oh! ... German huh?
> *snarl*
>
>
redundantman
"Jeremy Martin" <jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com> wrote in message
> [alt.atheism] redundantman (redund...@hotmail.com):
>
> >> >> Only if you're so ignorant you think that can only mean your
> >> >> deity. I was created by my parents.
> >> >
> >> > who were in turn Created by my deity. so there.
> >>
> >> Just like you, your parents were created by their own parents. Boy,
> >> Christers get more silly every day.
> >
> > You lost me, that makes no sense.
>
> I'm not surprised that you're lost on common sense and reality.
oh stop it. be nice
Robibnikoff
Wow - it definitely sounds it. My kid's a Cartoon Network freak, so I'm
probably seeing as much Bugs Bunny now as I did as a kid. The funniest new Bugs
Bunny cartoon was his 51st birthday celebration featuring all these "out takes"
from the opening of the show. There's one where Daffy Duck goes up to Bugs and
says "You son of a BLEEP!" That was hilarious :)
Mark Whickman
*livid*
*uses cricket bat*
The Plasmatron
Not infinite. They get simpler as you go back, and about 1.5 billion
years ago all you have is primordial gunk. Mind you, even so it's still a
good thing that most of them are dead, or you'd have a few hundred billion
Homo Sapiens alone showing up. Even more if you let the proto-humans on
back in. I dare say you'd run out of potato salad fairly quick.
The Plasmatron
Actually the point was stated pretty damned clearly right at the
begining. Ashcroft is being a religious bigot by ignoring everyone,
religious or not, who fails to believe there is a creator god who also
gave humans freedom and dignity. Other quotes by him have supported the
accusation, as listed on this same thread.
You're a bit slow on the uptake, aren't you?
The Plasmatron
I have the right to point out that he has expressed strong bias which
cause a conflict of intrest when it comes to him actually performing his
job duties.
As for this thread sucking, it would appear that the only reason you
think that is that you are losing.
Chris Nelson
Not if you understand the history of life on earth. Evolution, etc.
Jeremy Martin
>> I'm not surprised that you're lost on common sense and reality.
>
> oh stop it. be nice
I guess ignorance isn't something I enjoy being subjected to.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"Programmers deserve much oral sex for the high quality products they
bring us." - Euri, SA Forums
Mike Ruskai
>
>The US Attorney General, protector of the constitution, says:
>
> "Civilized people -- Muslims, Christians and Jews -- all understand
> that the source of freedom and human dignity is the Creator.
> Civilized people of all religious faiths are called to the defense
> of His creation. We are a nation called to defend freedom -- a
> freedom that is not the grant of any government or document, but is
> our endowment from God."
>
>It's too depressing.
Not as depressing as the fact that there are enough stupid people in this
country to elect (albeit not legitimately) an idiot like Bush to office, the
guy who appointed Ashcroft, and the the other ultra-conservative (i.e.
"ignorant and backwards") morons to government positions.
Incidentally, what Ashcroft is saying is that the majority of the people
living on earth are uncivilized.
--
- Mike
Remove 'spambegone.net' and reverse to send e-mail.
Ichimusai
> > Just like you, your parents were created by their own
> > parents. Boy, Christers get more silly every day.
>
> You lost me, that makes no sense.
You know, a man and a woman has intercourse and the man ejects his
semen into the woman where it might merge with one of her eggs. If
things go right they will have a baby in about 9 months.
Don't tell me you never heard of this?
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
IRC: #AmigaSWE!Ichimusai@IRCnet Plan? Mail: krikki...@algonet.se
/Support the ASCII ribbon campaign - No HTML, RTF or MS Word in mail\
The Meaning of life is to give life meaning
-- Renee Roberts
Ichimusai
_Cumberland_
Gosh. This is really bad.
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
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"A witty saying proves nothing."
-- Voltaire
Ichimusai
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
> > What a maroon.
>
> Is that a racial slur?
A colourful one.
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
IRC: #AmigaSWE!Ichimusai@IRCnet Plan? Mail: krikki...@algonet.se
/Support the ASCII ribbon campaign - No HTML, RTF or MS Word in mail\
"Never trust something that can think for itself if you can't see
where it keeps its brain!"
--Arthur Weasley, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
quibbler
a claim, then presumable material evidence should remain in the
shower, including small bits of hair and skin which would provide dna
confirmation that said person was in the shower a short time ago.
There might also be finger prints on the soap and other evidence which
would make the case beyond a reasonable doubt. Try doing the same for
god.
Kevin Anthoney
> "redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> > Just like you, your parents were created by their own
>> > parents. Boy, Christers get more silly every day.
>>
>> You lost me, that makes no sense.
>
> You know, a man and a woman has intercourse and the man ejects his
> semen into the woman where it might merge with one of her eggs. If
> things go right they will have a baby in about 9 months.
>
> Don't tell me you never heard of this?
>
Don't tell him, he might procreate!
I work for a company that sells welding equipment. I remember one of
the sales guys, once, trying to explain to a customer what the
difference was between a male and female connector. "Think of a man and
a woman!" Apparently, he still didn't get it.
--
Kevin Anthoney
kant...@clara.co.uk
Ichimusai
When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every connector
is _both_ male and female. :-)
http://nocat.net/connectors.html
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
IRC: #AmigaSWE!Ichimusai@IRCnet Plan? Mail: krikki...@algonet.se
/Support the ASCII ribbon campaign - No HTML, RTF or MS Word in mail\
"It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold..."
-- Hunter S. Tolkien - "Fear and Loathing in Barad-dūr"
pz
wrote:
> Kevin Anthoney <kant...@clara.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Ichimusai wrote:
> >
> > > "redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> > Just like you, your parents were created by their own
> > >> > parents. Boy, Christers get more silly every day.
> > >>
> > >> You lost me, that makes no sense.
> > >
> > > You know, a man and a woman has intercourse and the man ejects his
> > > semen into the woman where it might merge with one of her eggs. If
> > > things go right they will have a baby in about 9 months.
> > >
> > > Don't tell me you never heard of this?
> >
> > Don't tell him, he might procreate!
> >
> > I work for a company that sells welding equipment. I remember one of
> > the sales guys, once, trying to explain to a customer what the
> > difference was between a male and female connector. "Think of a man
> > and a woman!" Apparently, he still didn't get it.
>
> When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
> microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every connector
> is _both_ male and female. :-)
>
> http://nocat.net/connectors.html
You just tell people, "Think of two hermaphrodites!", and they should be
able to figure it out, right?
--
pz
Wolf333
news:k7t4q7...@ichimusai.org...
> Kevin Anthoney <kant...@clara.co.uk> writes:
>
> > Ichimusai wrote:
> >
> > > "redundantman" <redund...@hotmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> > Just like you, your parents were created by their own
> > >> > parents. Boy, Christers get more silly every day.
> > >>
> > >> You lost me, that makes no sense.
> > >
> > > You know, a man and a woman has intercourse and the man ejects his
> > > semen into the woman where it might merge with one of her eggs. If
> > > things go right they will have a baby in about 9 months.
> > >
> > > Don't tell me you never heard of this?
> >
> > Don't tell him, he might procreate!
> >
> > I work for a company that sells welding equipment. I remember one of
> > the sales guys, once, trying to explain to a customer what the
> > difference was between a male and female connector. "Think of a man
> > and a woman!" Apparently, he still didn't get it.
>
> When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
> microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every connector
> is _both_ male and female. :-)
>
> http://nocat.net/connectors.html
>
I used to use those back when I worked on something that at least resembled
electronics (as opposed to just chunking big boxes into a big, old
aircraft)... sigh...
--
_____
"You have annoyed the wrong clerk, you skinny freak! Now, feel my Devil
Doom-Evil!!! I GIVE YOU SATANIC HEAD BITEY!!!"
- Jhonen Vasquez - JTHM
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
_____
Thomas P.
>Carol Lee Smith <hu...@csd.uwm.edu> writes:
>
>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Christopher A. Lee wrote:
>> > What a maroon.
>>
>> Is that a racial slur?
>
>A colourful one.
It is Bugs Bunny's contribution to culture.
>
>--
>\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
> IRC: #AmigaSWE!Ichimusai@IRCnet Plan? Mail: krikki...@algonet.se
>/Support the ASCII ribbon campaign - No HTML, RTF or MS Word in mail\
>"Never trust something that can think for itself if you can't see
>where it keeps its brain!"
> --Arthur Weasley, Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets
Thomas P.
aa # 2009
"Adam was only human - this explains it all. He did not want the apple for the apple's sake, he wanted it only
because it was forbidden. The mistake was in not forbidding the serpent; then he would have eaten the serpent."
Ichimusai
> > When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
> > microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every connector
> > is _both_ male and female. :-)
> >
> > http://nocat.net/connectors.html
>
> You just tell people, "Think of two hermaphrodites!", and they should be
> able to figure it out, right?
I guess so :)
--
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The real boundaries has a tendency to be orthogonal to the imagined.
-- Ichimusai, February 15, 2002
Ichimusai
Great connectors when you move upwards from 3 GHz when the
N-connectors get too much loss. I really love them.
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
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"All power corrupts, but absolute power is kind of neat"
Jeremy Martin
>> > When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
>> > microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every
>> > connector is _both_ male and female. :-)
>> >
>> > http://nocat.net/connectors.html
>>
>> I used to use those back when I worked on something that at least
>> resembled electronics (as opposed to just chunking big boxes into a
>> big, old aircraft)... sigh...
>
> Great connectors when you move upwards from 3 GHz when the
> N-connectors get too much loss. I really love them.
What do you do in a microwave lab?
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"Nothing wrong with a cheap thrill. The only difference between a cheap
thrill and an expensive thrill is the satin bedsheets, anyway."
- The Great Hairy One, alt.atheism (12.29.01)
Ichimusai
> [alt.atheism] Ichimusai (ic...@ichimusai.org):
>
> >> > When it comes to the APC-7 connectors I handle at work in the
> >> > microwave lab it does get complicated since each and every
> >> > connector is _both_ male and female. :-)
> >> >
> >> > http://nocat.net/connectors.html
> >>
> >> I used to use those back when I worked on something that at least
> >> resembled electronics (as opposed to just chunking big boxes into a
> >> big, old aircraft)... sigh...
> >
> > Great connectors when you move upwards from 3 GHz when the
> > N-connectors get too much loss. I really love them.
>
> What do you do in a microwave lab?
I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
--
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-- Nisse
Jeremy Martin
>> What do you do in a microwave lab?
>
> I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
> manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
> applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
> for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
Rad. I was looking at the page with all of those different things you
posted, and all I could think of was, "It all looks like weird coax
connectors." ;)
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"It's interesting how much of his 14th century theology is still current
while the science and philosophy of the Divine Comedy is seven centuries
out of date." - Fred Stone
Ichimusai
> [alt.atheism] Ichimusai (ic...@ichimusai.org):
>
> >> What do you do in a microwave lab?
> >
> > I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
> > manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
> > applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
> > for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
>
> Rad. I was looking at the page with all of those different things you
> posted, and all I could think of was, "It all looks like weird coax
> connectors." ;)
They sure are :) And the APC-7 is one of the best I have used so
far. Less then 2 dB attenuation at 60 GHz. That's pretty cool. Of
course at that frequency you only have to bend the coax slightly to
make the attenuation 30 dB or more :)
--
\AA#769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo & MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
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Noone is perfect, but some parts of you are rather exquisite!
-- Ichimusai (7 beers later 3 seconds before the slap)
Dave W
jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com says...
> [alt.atheism] Ichimusai (ic...@ichimusai.org):
>
> >> What do you do in a microwave lab?
> >
> > I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
> > manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
> > applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
> > for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
>
> Rad. I was looking at the page with all of those different things you
> posted, and all I could think of was, "It all looks like weird coax
> connectors." ;)
>
>
There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
--
Dave W a.a.#.---- ----. -.... --...
Revenge is a dish best served cold, so is ice cream.
ICQ#105755568
Jeremy Martin
> There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
Yeah, but do they make ones that aren't the annoying screw-in kind? Damn. I
wish they would make ones you could just PLUG IN, like everything else I
have. That stupid pin always gets bent, too.
--
Jeremy Martin (Dethstryk) aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
My band, Flatline -> http://flatline.neethost.com/
"Alea iacta est."
- Julius Caesar, after crossing the Rubicon in 49 BC
Ichimusai
> In article <Xns91BEBBF6CCE4Eje...@209.249.90.101>,
> jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com says...
> > [alt.atheism] Ichimusai (ic...@ichimusai.org):
> >
> > >> What do you do in a microwave lab?
> > >
> > > I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
> > > manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
> > > applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
> > > for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
> >
> > Rad. I was looking at the page with all of those different things you
> > posted, and all I could think of was, "It all looks like weird coax
> > connectors." ;)
> >
> >
> http://www.andrew.com/catonline/
> There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
Only a few really good ones though :)
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Ichimusai
> [alt.atheism] Dave W (n...@nope.net):
>
> > There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
>
> Yeah, but do they make ones that aren't the annoying screw-in kind? Damn. I
> wish they would make ones you could just PLUG IN, like everything else I
> have. That stupid pin always gets bent, too.
There are such connectors, often used with cable TV etc. But they all
invariably suffer from much more loss then the screw tight connectors
and are unusable for high frequency signals.
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Dave W
jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com says...
> [alt.atheism] Dave W (n...@nope.net):
>
> > There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
>
> Yeah, but do they make ones that aren't the annoying screw-in kind? Damn. I
> wish they would make ones you could just PLUG IN, like everything else I
> have. That stupid pin always gets bent, too.
>
>
No, that would be too easy. The coax "tips" I deal with are all
aluminum. The male and female are both aluminum and that sucks. Aluminum
does not thread well on aluminum. It is a pain in the ass. The BNC tips
are pretty easy to plug in, it is just a quarter turn to lock. The DS-3
patch panels make up for their ease by putting them in such close
proximity so that if you are working in a panel that is in service, you
risk dumping one of the DS-3s that are on either side!
<going to sleep now>
Dave W
> Dave W <n...@nope.net> writes:
>
> > In article <Xns91BEBBF6CCE4Eje...@209.249.90.101>,
> > jema...@NOtcaSPAMinternet.com says...
> > > [alt.atheism] Ichimusai (ic...@ichimusai.org):
> > >
> > > >> What do you do in a microwave lab?
> > > >
> > > > I measure stuff :) I work as a test engineer at a company which
> > > > manufacture radio equipment for the telecom business and other
> > > > applications. Mainly repeaters for indoor coverage as in tunnels etc
> > > > for cellular phone systems (mainly GSM but others as well).
> > >
> > > Rad. I was looking at the page with all of those different things you
> > > posted, and all I could think of was, "It all looks like weird coax
> > > connectors." ;)
> > >
> > >
> > http://www.andrew.com/catonline/
> > There are more types of coax connectors than you can shake a stick at...
>
> Only a few really good ones though :)
>
>
We use a lot of LDF4 and LDF5 and I only see tips from Andrew and Huber
and Suhner. Both the solder on and non solder(name escapes my currently
pickled brain) The site master seems to like the non solder type,
especially when you are dealing with fixed wireless(2.3 Ghz). I am not
particularly fond of the DIN type...
Ichimusai
> We use a lot of LDF4 and LDF5 and I only see tips from Andrew and Huber
> and Suhner. Both the solder on and non solder(name escapes my currently
> pickled brain) The site master seems to like the non solder type,
> especially when you are dealing with fixed wireless(2.3 Ghz). I am not
> particularly fond of the DIN type...
I prefer non-solder connectors myself. On equipment and coax for
installation I use 7/16 connectors which works pretty well up to
decently high frequencies. The soldered connectors have the problem of
yet another material introduced into the contact and also that they do
not tolerate the same swing in temperatures.
For lab equipment, APC-7 is just great!
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Ichimusai
BNC connectors are crap in higher frequencies though, I would not use
them for frequencies over 70 MHz myself.
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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence
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