abortion and prophec
Michael Courtney
>mic...@krypton.mit.edu (Michael Courtney) writes:
>
>|> I am against abortion in any circumstances. God calls it murder, so
>|> aborting a baby to end a pregnancy is no different than commiting
>|> a murder to avoid the consequence of an action.
>There are passages in the bible (mainly OT) that indicate that God may
>hold a lower value on the life of a child (born or unborn)
> - In Exodus 11:5 God kills the firstborn in Egypt.
> - Deuteronomy 21:18-21 states clearly that a legitimate punishment
> for a disobedient son is death by stoning.
God also commands that many other people be stoned under the covenant
he had with Israel. He also wiped out the entire Egyptian
army. These passages do not contain even a hint that God gives a lower
value to the life of a child. Hovever, in Jonah we find that the
presence of children in Nineveh is one of the factors in God's decision
not to destroy that city.
>Then, there is the passage about priests trying to induce a
>miscarriage in an unfaithful wife (Numbers 5:27). At least in the
>case of an unfaithful wife, abortion (induced miscarriage) seems to be
>acceptable. I don't know about the cases of rape, incest,
>endangerment of the mother's life, but if your wife cheats on you,
>trek on down to your local priest and ask for the bitter water
>treatment.
The procedure in Numbers 5:27 is not intended to induce abortion, but
rather to make a woman infertile if she has been unfaithful.
>There is also the passage about the punishment for causing a
>miscarriage (Exodus 21:22). A payment is made for the loss. The
>punishment is not the same as the punishment for murder (i.e. death).
>If causing a miscarriage is murder, then why is the punishment
>different?
This verse can be translated in two ways, which have very different
meanings. One possible translation seems favorable to the pro-life
perspective:
If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth
prematurely, but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined . . .
But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life ...
(Exodus 21:22 - 24 NIV)
This serious injury might mean serious injury to the child in which
case the offender's life must be taken.
However, the Hebrew here can also be translated in a way which is
favorable to the pro-choice view:
If men struggle with each other and strike a woman with child so that she
has a miscarriage, yet there is no further injury ... (Exodus 21:22 NAS)
Given that the meaning of the text is uncertain here, it is best to
look elsewhere in the Bible for God's view of abortion.
>Also, Genesis 2:7 can be interpreted as "life begins at the first
>breath (this is when the soul enters the body)". If I remember
>correctly, the Catholic church originally used this verse as the basis
>for their original stance on abortion (before they flip-flopped into
>their current anti-abortion stance).
This interpretation is not demanded from the text and is actually
reading something into it that is not demanded from the text.
The Hebrew understanding of life was connected with breath, but
we would do well not to read God's will into the limitations of
ancient Hebrew. The Catholic church reads things into the Bible
all over the place, and historical Christianity seldom gives an
accurate picture of God.
>Please quote the verse where God calls it murder. Your personal
>relationship with God and your private revelations from God are not
>admissible. Don't put words into your god's mouth. I don't think he
>would appreciate it.
I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
because of abortion.
Abortion is the terminating of a pregnancy. If the creature being
put to death in this termination of pregnancy is human, then abortion
is murder (assuming that the unborn child has not been found guilt
of a capital crime, which is unlikely). In Psalm 51:5, David says,
Surely I was sinful from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived
me.
David was confessing his human tendency to sin from the time his mother
became pregnant with him. It is obvious that David did not understand
the medical details of conception. But the Hebrew here can not mean
anything else than that David was sinful from the time his mother became
pregnant. It is not possible to be sinful without having a spirit and
a will, because sin is an act of the will.
If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
now planning. Let me be specific in this prophecy. This is what the Lord
has said:
Within 40 years the following things will happen:
1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
and,
Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
except by the blood of the one who shed it.
3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
can stop what God has decided to do.
God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
--
Michael Courtney |Reply by email if you really want an answer to a question
mic...@amo.mit.edu |about something in this post. I do consider flames,
|mocking or obscenity to be indications that you are not
|asking honest questions. P.S. I have the FAQ's.
DYER, ANGELA
(stuff deleted)
>I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
>prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
>because of abortion.
I just wanted to say that I used to think that Michael was an OK guy who was
just a little too taken in by his religion. Now, I think its clear that he is
not playing with a full deck. Michael, you're sounding a lot like one of
those Koresh - type cult leaders......
>Abortion is the terminating of a pregnancy. If the creature being
>put to death in this termination of pregnancy is human, then abortion
>is murder (assuming that the unborn child has not been found guilt
>of a capital crime, which is unlikely). In Psalm 51:5, David says,
>Surely I was sinful from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived
>me.
One of the worst characteristics of Christianity if you ask me. Therfore,
aborted baby's souls must go to hell, since they are sinful and have not yet
begged Christ's forgiveness.
Nice loving God hey?!
>David was confessing his human tendency to sin from the time his mother
>became pregnant with him. It is obvious that David did not understand
>the medical details of conception. But the Hebrew here can not mean
>anything else than that David was sinful from the time his mother became
>pregnant. It is not possible to be sinful without having a spirit and
>a will, because sin is an act of the will.
>If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
>be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
>now planning. Let me be specific in this prophecy. This is what the Lord
>has said:
SPECIAL REPORT: The world will end in X amount of time. Prepare
accordingly....
>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
>Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
>it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
What sort of government will we get?
>2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
>for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
>on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
Millions of Americans will die here. People usually die in their home country.
>If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
>and,
>Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
>except by the blood of the one who shed it.
But, you say all will be accoutable, not just those who have abortions...what
gives?
>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
A real live dragon? Scary. Never seen one before. Shit, I guess I better
stay on the pill.
>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
>can stop what God has decided to do.
Well, shit why bother, lets have a party.
>God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
Michael, go away preaching is not appreciated, debate is.
>That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
>when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
Michael, I hope I can see you in 40 years, and laugh in your pompous, preachy
face.
Angela
Mats Grahm
Michael, for a while you fooled mee. I thought you were just another
poor believer. One that interpreded everything good in your life as
comming from God, and therefore saw signs of him everywhere. But
here we go! A true prophet!
In article 5...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU, mic...@krypton.mit.edu (Michael Courtney)
(text deleted)
> I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
> prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
> because of abortion.
(text deleted)
> Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>
> 1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
> Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
> it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
>
> 2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
> for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
> on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
>
> If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
>
> and,
>
> Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
> except by the blood of the one who shed it.
>
> 3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
>
> 4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
> can stop what God has decided to do.
>
> God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
>
>
> That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
> when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
One good thing about this 'prophecy': It's so damn unconditional that
when it fails, you just HAVE to admit that it wasn't God you have been
talking with all your life.
Pitty it will take 40 years. You will be quite old when you realize that
you've been living on a lie all your life.
And about that dragon: If some cruel bastard order something like that, why
should he deserve my and other people's respect and worship? I'm of course
absolutely sure that this will never happen, but if it did, be sure that I
would be the first to curse him! I would commit the rest of my life fighting
that tyrann.
Michael, this is the final proof. You have serious problems. You definitely
should try to get some help.
Mats Grahm
Michael Cummings
>I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
>prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
>because of abortion.
I suppose one of those "gut feelings" told you this.
I've laid off flaming you, since a lot of people around here seemed
to think you're basically a sincere, if misguided individual. Actually,
the fact is, you are a deeply disturbed person in need of help.
[Courtney's delusion follows]
>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
>Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
>it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
>2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
>for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
>on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
>If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
>Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
>except by the blood of the one who shed it.
>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
I don't believe in dragons, either.
>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
>can stop what God has decided to do.
Then what's the point? Let's ignore you, since if you're right,
there's nothing we can do about it.
>God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
I don't mock nonexistant entities. Just fools like you.
Why do you keep posting here? You're just a Koresh wannabe, and
not a very good one. You will gain no converts here.
--
Michael Cummings NX7E
cumm...@u.washington.edu
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at
them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." - Jack Handey
David Wood
Holy hell, Michael! You are certainly an interesting case study here
on a.a, for you seem fairly lucid and intelligent, but you swing from
post to post from a routine dull Christian, to mildly provocative, to
stark raving madness. Your last post falls clearly in the latter
area. I think you need serious help.
mic...@krypton.mit.edu (Michael.Courtney) writes:
[discussion of proposed Biblical support for abortion deleted, in
which I mostly agree with Michael - the case presented by Dan Yergeau
is really pretty weak overall.]
>yer...@leland.Stanford.EDU (Dan Yergeau) writes:
>>Also, Genesis 2:7 can be interpreted as "life begins at the first
>>breath (this is when the soul enters the body)". If I remember
>>correctly, the Catholic church originally used this verse as the basis
>>for their original stance on abortion (before they flip-flopped into
>>their current anti-abortion stance).
>This interpretation is not demanded from the text and is actually
>reading something into it that is not demanded from the text.
Okay, maybe.
>The Hebrew understanding of life was connected with breath, but
>we would do well not to read God's will into the limitations of
>ancient Hebrew.
... something done by Christians more or less universally, and in fact
you do so later in the same post.
>The Catholic church reads things into the Bible
>all over the place, and historical Christianity seldom gives an
>accurate picture of God.
At this point, I couldn't agree with you more. I figured there must
be something strange lurking behind this odd sense of agreement, and
lo, I was right...
>>Please quote the verse where God calls it murder. Your personal
>>relationship with God and your private revelations from God are not
>>admissible. Don't put words into your god's mouth. I don't think he
>>would appreciate it.
>I have God's permission to call abortion murder.
Yow!
>I am a prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United
>States because of abortion.
Double yow!! So you are on a divinely sanctioned holy mission? Are
you sure you want to be put in the same category as Koresh, Hitler,
the Spanish Inquisitors, Jim Jones, the Crusaders, the KKK, etc.? Is
there some way in which we could distinguish between your holy mission
and theirs, given that mass murder is one common denominator? I am
quite serious about this, not just taking a cheap shot.
>Abortion is the terminating of a pregnancy. If the creature being
>put to death in this termination of pregnancy is human, then abortion
>is murder (assuming that the unborn child has not been found guilt
>of a capital crime, which is unlikely). In Psalm 51:5, David says,
Now look, you just got done saying, in effect, that we can't trust our
interpretations of the Bible to be accurate. How can you now be using
a Biblical interpretation as a reference?
>Surely I was sinful from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived
>me.
>
>David was confessing his human tendency to sin from the time his mother
>became pregnant with him. It is obvious that David did not understand
>the medical details of conception. But the Hebrew here can not mean
>anything else than that David was sinful from the time his mother became
>pregnant. It is not possible to be sinful without having a spirit and
>a will, because sin is an act of the will.
Grand. Can you explain in what imaginable way a fetus can be
willfully sinful? Do you realize how insane this sounds? Does your
world view allow for the possibility that David may not have been
infallible in his medical and spiritual proclamations? Or is any
quote attributable to any person accurate so long as it is in the
Bible?
Might I also note that, despite your castigation of Catholics for
"reading things into the Bible all over the place", that you are doing
exactly this by going to great lengths to interpret an innocuous
statement by David as a Biblical condemnation of abortion? You have
utterly failed to show a single example from the Bible directly and
clearly equating abortion with murder. Any quotes that are not direct
and clear (e.g., "Thou shalt not destroy the fruit of the womb, for
the Lord thy God consider this to be murder") don't count, because
then you would be "reading things into the Bible all over the place."
>If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
>be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
>now planning.
Why is it that you can detect logical flaws in the arguments of others
but not in your own arguments? Above, you've taken three assertions,
none of which have been shown true to the satisfaction of the
audience, and connected them into a grand, self-referencing, circular
assertion.
assertion 1: God exists (as you have portrayed it)
assertion 2: abortion is murder
assertion 3: God is going to destroy the US
new assertion: God exists and abortion is murder; this proves that
he is going to destroy the US
I suggest you step back, take a deep breath, and think this through again.
>Let me be specific in this prophecy. This is what the Lord
>has said:
>
>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
How handy that you can't be proven wrong for forty years! You'll
forgive me if I don't drop everything to follow you based on hearsay
that can't be verified for forty years, I hope.
I'm still waiting for the 1900 year-old prophecies of Revelation to be
fulfilled, not to mention the 2300 (??) year-old prophecies of Daniel.
Hey, an awful lot of Jews are waiting for the prophecies of the
Messiah to come true, and in this I'd have to agree with them. Then
there are the many modern-day prophecies of the Mormons, Jehovah's
Witnesses, David Koresh, Rev. Moon, Jack van Impe... lordy, the list
does go on, does it not? Have I mentioned Nostradamus?
Oh yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the prophecies of Jesus.
Didn't he predict that the Kingdom of God was "at hand" nearly 2000
years ago?
>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
>Constitution.
Well, maybe, if we allow reactionary Christians to succeed in their
campaign to bring down the first amendment (e.g., Institute for
Creation Research, Christian Coalition, Citizens for Excellence in
Education, Moral Majority, ...)
>The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
>it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
Could you be more specific? How exactly will this happen?
>2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
This is nothing new. Could you be more specific so that we can
differentiate between ordinary violence and divine slaughter?
>for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
>on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
Yes, your God most certainly is a murderous butcher, as the Bible
makes abundantly clear, and as Christians have shown time and again
for the last 2000 years. Well, not to put too fine a point on it:
Your God can go fuck himself, and you animals who have invented and
perpetuated him can do the same to yourselves. (Let me make perfectly
clear that I'm not lumping *all* Christians into this category,
especially those who are "believers by default"; these folks are
mostly harmless and good-intentioned, and would disassociate
themselves from ravings such as Michael's.)
>If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
>
>and,
>
>Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
>except by the blood of the one who shed it.
Whatever. More of the same divine "mercy".
>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
Oh, great. In your diseased head, God calls abortion murder, then
sanctions a "dragon" to commit more such murders. Are you sure you're
not pulling our collective legs here?
By the by, what exactly is a "dragon"?
>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
>can stop what God has decided to do.
How nice. See above, WRT divine mercy.
>God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
I don't mock God, Michael, least of all *your* god, for it would be
useless to mock a figment of your warped imagination. If I'm mocking
anyone, I'm mocking you because your perverse attitudes really anger
me. I have to apologize to anyone reading this for being so hostile,
but this sort of sick attitude really strikes a raw nerve with me. I
feel it viscerally, as our old pal George Bush might say.
Actually, I don't wish to mock even you Michael, because you are quite
clearly a sick individual in need of help. Help, I might add, that
you will not find on the internet. Please seek a professional before
it's too late and you decide to take action in the name of your God,
hopefully not against me.
>That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
>when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
Oh, let me fall on my hands and thank him for his kindness and mercy!
-------------------------------------------------------
Dave Wood
Faith is an island in the setting sun,
But proof is the bottom line for everyone.
-- "Proof", Paul Simon
-------------------------------------------------------
Kendall Auel
|>
|> I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
|> prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
|> because of abortion.
|>
to actually believe that religion is harmless; maybe even good for
certain people who need a purpose and moral guidance. He just blew
that fantasy all to Hell!
|> Within 40 years the following things will happen:
|>
|> 1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
|> Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
|> it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
This could mean A) the electoral college will be replaced with a direct
vote-per-voter system; B) the dollar will be replaced with NACU (North
American Currency Units) much as the Frank and Pound are being replaced
with ECU's. Interpretation is wide open on this prophecy, Mike ol' pal.
|>
|> 2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
|> for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
|> on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
|>
|> If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
|>
|> and,
|>
|> Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
|> except by the blood of the one who shed it.
|>
Other than sounding very much like the gang wars going on in virtually
every large city, this prophecy is also wide open to interpretation.
If you really believe you are God's spokesperson, you are doing an
awfully good job of making yourself look like a charlatan.
|> 3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
|>
I think you need a little fine-tuning on your demon-message filter.
This does not sound anything like something God would say. Other
than being silly, it sounds cruel and pointless.
|> 4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
|> can stop what God has decided to do.
|>
Well then it is a really good thing that He does not exist, isn't it?
|> God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
|>
There's that royal "we" creaping in. It used to really give me the
creaps when David Koresh did that.
|>
|> That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
|> when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
|>
Oh, please, Mr. Mutilate, Torture and Kill Christ, SAVE ME! It would
almost be funny if it wasn't so sick.
|> --
|> Michael Courtney |Reply by email if you really want an answer to a question
|> mic...@amo.mit.edu |about something in this post. I do consider flames,
|> |mocking or obscenity to be indications that you are not
|> |asking honest questions. P.S. I have the FAQ's.
--
Kendall Auel -- Mentor Graphics Corporation
kendal...@mentorg.com (503) 685-7000 x2853
[ The fact that I have no standard disclaimer in my ]
[ signature should in no way be construed to mean ]
[ that I am not disclaiming anything (or should that ]
[ be that I am claiming anything?). I'm not. ]
Eric Sieferman
Michael Courtney <mic...@krypton.mit.edu> wrote:
(snip)
>
>I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
>prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
>because of abortion.
Uh oh.
There are several countries in the world which have a higher rate of
abortions than the USA. Does God have a nasty surprise for them too?
And since there is no clear prohibition of abortion in the bible, in
contrast to clear prohibitions of actions like eating shellfish, why
would God choose this one particular "sin" as a cause of his wrath?
(snip)
>
>If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
>be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
>now planning. Let me be specific in this prophecy. This is what the Lord
>has said:
>
>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>
>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
>Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
>it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
>
>2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
>for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
>on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
>
>If a man sheds blood, by man shall his blood be shed.
>
>and,
>
>Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
>except by the blood of the one who shed it.
>
>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
>
>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
>can stop what God has decided to do.
One last question: how will you feel if none of these disasters occurs?
>God is not mocked, we will reap what we have sown.
>
>
>That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
>when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
Because of your polite and erudite manner, I thought that there was some
possiblity of dialogue, but this posting indicates that our methods of
thought are so different as to be irreconcilable.
You have attributed parts of yourself to God. You cannot face that your
anger is yours; instead, you have transferred it and other parts of your
personality to a mythological entity known as "God". You cannot
recognize in any meaningful way that we all start the same way, and will
end the same way. You'd rather transform your hatred into a maniacal
revenge fantasy against millions of simple, fallible, human beings. At
least, I hope it stays a fantasy ...
It's true that we are all sinners. It's also true that we are all saints.
Heal thyself.
--
--- As Seen In alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die: "Another similarity is
that Rush [Limbaugh] and B*rney are both purple, or would be if
someone had the good sense to wrap some piano wire around Rush's neck..."
Petri Pihko
> I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
> prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
> because of abortion.
No, you are not. You are merely a badly deluded person, in real need
of qualified professional help.
> If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
> be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
> now planning.
Since you seem to be quite serious about this, let me ask the following:
1) Has God informed you about her plans to punish any other countries
where abortion has been legal for 20-30 years by now, ie, most European
countries?
2) Your prophecy does not follow the typical Biblical pattern of
most prophecies, which start out with fair warnings and threats,
and, depending on the course of action people decide to take,
end either with a reward or direct punishment from God. You, on
the other hand, are already claiming that nothing cannot be done.
Were I still a Christian, I would have enough reasons to reject
your prophecy on purely scriptural grounds.
I could as well tell you that God is now talking to _me_, telling
me quite clearly that you are wrong. As an atheist, I prefer not
to interpret my instincts that way, but I can vividly remember
the time I did.
[part of the prophecy deleted]
> 3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
A real dragon? Wow.
> 4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
> can stop what God has decided to do.
However, a good professional psychiatrist _can_ do something about
those delusions of yours.
Petri
--
___. .'*''.* Petri Pihko kempmp@ Incest
!___.'* '.'*' ' . Pihatie 15 C phoenix.oulu.fi is a relative thing.
' *' .* '* SF-90650 OULU kempmp@
*' * .* FINLAND rieska.oulu.fi Jack F. Hamilton
Merlyn LeRoy
[about Archangel Michael Courtney's prophetic rantings]
>There are several countries in the world which have a higher rate of
>abortions than the USA. Does God have a nasty surprise for them too?
>And since there is no clear prohibition of abortion in the bible, in
>contrast to clear prohibitions of actions like eating shellfish, why
>would God choose this one particular "sin" as a cause of his wrath?
Because we have the LARGEST NUMBER of RED LOBSTER fine dining
restaurants in the KNOWN WORLD!
I don't even want to THINK about LONG JOHN SILVER'S!
Have you noticed that NOT ONE national chain of godly FISH & CHIP shops
has survived!? H. Salt Fish & Chips, Arthur Treacher's, and Skippers' -
ALL GONE!
Eat some COD for GOD!
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Quowong P. Liu
Michael Courtney <mic...@krypton.mit.edu> wrote:
>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the [...]
>2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets, [...]
>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing [...]
>That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
>when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
It might appear that those things are happening when looking
out from the compound. I expect that television cameras will
record all the nasty things happening around the compound when
the time comes.
--
qp...@princeton.edu Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.
Kent Sandvik
>> Within 40 years the following things will happen:
>
> 1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
> Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
> it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
I just love these 'within X years' definitions. I have to save this
entry in my CD-archive backup, so I could grep it back 40 years from
now. It's interesting to note that so far *all* Christian predictions
of the future have been wrong. From a scientific point of view
this would implicate something.
> 2. The blood of our young men will be poured out into the streets,
> for the Lord is a God of retribution. Millions of Americans will die
> on American soil in fulfillment of the Scriptures:
Doesn't this happen in Somalia already?
--Kent
--
Kent Sandvik
san...@newton.apple.com. ALink: KSAND -- Private activities on the net.
"Reality is a State of Mind."
Kent Sandvik
qp...@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (Quowong P. Liu) wrote:
> It might appear that those things are happening when looking
> out from the compound. I expect that television cameras will
> record all the nasty things happening around the compound when
> the time comes.
Yes. And if this happens, we really need Jesus instead of this
terrorizing evil God destroying people.
Jeffrey Clark
>>I am a prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United
>>States because of abortion.
This and Micheal's 4 prophecies are very very frightening, if they are
indeed serious.
I told you dudes, that Micheal wants to start his own religion. It has all
the hallmarks. Make prophecies that are soon enough that they may happen
tomorrow, but won't time out until Micheal has had forty years as a godhead
(in time for retirement). Use a current popular religion replete with it's
own book that can be interpreted any way you like. Make yourself the
connection to the deity with direct communication. Have very lucid logical
things to say that appeal to everyone and follow it up with the fire and
brimstone which though on it's own is ludicrous, when in conjunction with
the lucid stuff gains validation. It's textbook stuff.
Jeff.
Mats Grahm
it's obvious that he actualy believe in his interpretation of whatever happened
to him. He is not starting a new sect. He just believe that the normal, Christian
God has choosed to use him as a prophet.
I don't think anything we say here could change his mind about that. But because
he is honest and polite, I will give it a try. The occasions are rare, but there
ARE cases were people as convinced as Michael starts to listen if the arguments
are good. But for that to work, our voices have to be calm and polite. Nothing
is won by making fun of him, or by flaming him.
If it goes on too long, I guess I too will concider it a lost case. But I save
my sarcasms and arrogance until then.
Mats Grahm
no one of consequence
DYER, ANGELA <and...@zebu.cvm.msu.edu> wrote:
]In article <29mutg$5...@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> mic...@krypton.mit.edu (Michael Courtney) writes:
](stuff deleted)
]>I have God's permission to call abortion murder. I am a
]>prophet sent by God to declare the destruction of the United States
]>because of abortion.
]I just wanted to say that I used to think that Michael was an OK guy who was
]just a little too taken in by his religion. Now, I think its clear that he is
]not playing with a full deck. Michael, you're sounding a lot like one of
]those Koresh - type cult leaders......
Shh!! The BATF might use that as an excuse to go amuck again.. :(
]>Surely I was sinful from birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived
]>me.
]
]One of the worst characteristics of Christianity if you ask me. Therfore,
]aborted baby's souls must go to hell, since they are sinful and have not yet
]begged Christ's forgiveness.
]
]Nice loving God hey?!
One reason why I became disillusioned with Christianity.
]>If either God did not exist, or abortion was not murder, God would not
]>be planning to bring the retribution on the United States that he is
]>now planning. Let me be specific in this prophecy. This is what the Lord
]>has said:
]
]SPECIAL REPORT: The world will end in X amount of time. Prepare
]accordingly....
Well, I am not going to be on the planet at the time.. :)
]>Within 40 years the following things will happen:
]>1. The United States will cease to be governed as set forth in the
]>Constitution. The United States will also cease to enjoy the freedom
]>it declared for itself in the Declaration of Independence.
]What sort of government will we get?
Depends.. this is the only part which I find remotely plausible. Though, I
don't think God will have anything to do with it.
]>Atonement cannot be made for land on which blood has been shed,
]>except by the blood of the one who shed it.
]
]But, you say all will be accoutable, not just those who have abortions...what
]gives?
Because Mich.. er, God said so..
]>3. A dragon will rip open the pregnant women of the United States.
]
]A real live dragon? Scary. Never seen one before. Shit, I guess I better
]stay on the pill.
Heh.. B'HARNI'S TRUE PURPOSE REVEALED...
]>4. This prophecy is unconditional. No repentance can stop it. Nothing
]>can stop what God has decided to do.
]
]Well, shit why bother, lets have a party.
I like this idea.. :)
]>That's all of the prophecy, but I will add that if you are still alive
]>when it happens there is still forgiveness for your sins through Jesus Christ.
]
]Michael, I hope I can see you in 40 years, and laugh in your pompous, preachy
]face.
]
]Angela
I'd rather be in the afterlife to see God's <or the IPU's> reaction to
this.. ["Micheal, you have been very faithful to me. BUT, there is this
minor detail about claiming to be my messenger without consulting me..." :)]
--
|Patrick Chester (aka: claypigeon, Sinapus) wol...@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu|
|Member Lovely Angels Fan Club/Fire Support Team/Cleanup Crew |
|"Never pilot a mass produced Mobile Suit design"- Anaheim Custom MS's |
|Witty remarks always come to mind 20 minutes after sending your article|