aa alt.atheism question #62
mike
Mickey wrote:
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>
When my IQ hit 165, being smart fit my brain easier than being Christian.
>
> Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
>
> High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>
> send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>
> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
> The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
> the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Rev Chuck
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
I was born one. Also, my cat doesn't believe in god. She's
never wrong.
--
Creationism -- because the words are easier to spell.
Rev Chuck, Alt.Atheism #203, Ordained Reverend, ULC, 17 March, 1997.
Remove -REMOVE_THIS- from address to respond.
Mickey
theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
question.
#62. Why are you an atheist?
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
rando...@baawa.orgdontspamme
well, I was having doubts about religion...then I started reading books and
magazines about space, stars, etc, and I realized how insignificant people
were to the universe. I kind of put that in the back of my head, until I
came across an atheist web site,
http://www.california.com/~rpcman/FREEDOM.HTM to be exact. I read articles
there for a few hours, and finally decided that atheism makes much more
sense than religion. basically, once I admitted to myself that it is
possible that my religion was wrong, I became more open minded, and accepted
things much easier, then I realized exactly how badly I had been, well,
brainwashed into believing that religious crap, and I decided that I was
atheist, no doubt about it....
and that is how I became atheist.
--
Randomseed
--merwI'
http://wwp.mirabilis.com/8562260
Alt.Atheist #1366
Mickey wrote in message <364a1a1...@news.mindspring.com>...
Lynden1000
This is actually a two-part question: Why do you not believe in *a* god, and
why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
For the first part of the question, I am not atheist. I fully accept the
possibility that a creator/higher power/designer being might exist. I remain
skeptical, however, because most cosmologists are in disagreement as to whether
the universe necessitates such a creator/higher power/designer. If compelling
evidence comes along to suggest that such a being must exist, I will be glad to
lean in that direction.
For the second part of the question, i fit the traditional atheist model. I see
absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that out of the hundreds (or
thousands) of religions that have graced humankind, past and present, only one
is privy to the truth about god's nature. There are parallels among all the
world religions, and they share a suprising number of similiar elements:
creation legends, god and deities, flood stories, moral edicts, miracles,
saviors, martyrs, promised lands, devils and demons, and afterlife judgements.
After the advent of written language, they pretty much all developed *inspired*
scriptures as well.
To make a long story short: This god/creator/designer being might very well
exist, but I certainly do not presume to know the who, what, when, where, how
and why of his existence.
Blackguard
struck by inspiration and wrote:
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Never really saw a reason to believe in Gawd.
As a young child, my parents never talked to me about Gawd (even
though they were both raised as Catholics). I do remember my Dad
saying something about him once, but I was three at the time and
didn't really care.
You could say that I was an atheist growing up, since I never gave the
idea that there was a Gawd a second chance. By this I mean that he
never entered into "the equation" so to speak (yes, even back then I
had a tendency to put things in mathematical terms, simple ones mind
you, but math none the less).
As I grew up, the idea just seemed silly to say the least. Since then
I've gone from being a weak to a strong atheist. Don't believe in Gawd
of any sort, and doubt very much I ever will.
---
# 3.14159 Most Holy Blackguard, High Priest of the Church of
Iconoclasts
aa #869
Surveillance and Black Helicopter Division EAC
BAAWA!
to e-mail just use the appropriate numbers or letters, but beware, my
spamblock is up and running.
why you won for ate ate won three <at> yorku.ca
K & H Gilltrap
Im more of an agnostic than an atheist. Although when i listen to logic and common sense I lean heavily
towards hard atheism. I definitely dont believe in any religious god, although I dont deny the
possibility of some divine entity who created this place, but i attribute this more towards my
imagination and the the fact i have no education (nor do i want any) in quantum physics and other such
sciences. Basically what through me in the direction of athiesm was the 11 year old girl (the same age I
was then [im now 17] ) across the road developing cancer. When i asked me parents what cancer was and
realised my friend was going to die at a rather young age, I began to question what sort of sentient
being would let this happen if he/ she/ it had the power to stop it. Other such events (like the papau
new guinea tsunami) chizeled away at my belief throughout the years and im now at the assumption that at
the very least, God, Yahweh, Zues, Allah or whatever you call him is a creation of a delusional (or
perhaps brilliant) mind. On a side note, although I now live on the other side of the country, I havent
heard from my friend in 'bout 5 or 6 years and am now under the assumption she is dead....so much for
god.
Evan "The Jerry Atrick" Gilltrap.
Davidson
>
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
Because all the gods I've ever heard of make no sense,
have no predictive power, are wrong in talking about the
world, and look exactly like myths.
Scott #1045
Darwin
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because theism is absurd.
Darwin
Don Antropos
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
Once I was a theist and I was always scared, took everything personal,
saw everything we did as a threat and was extremely unhappy with the
silence... I spend years hoping that somebody or something would speak
to me and tell me that I'm kind of special. Really, no kidding.... :)
Then one day I decided it was enough. The silence became evidence for
the real lack of gods and once that was clear, I suddenly didn't take
everything personal anymore, wasn't so scared anymore and was actually
able to accept that things sometimes went wrong. It also became much
easier to carry my own responsibility, since I figured I was only
responsible for my direct surroundings and not for the whole
'creation'. Made life a whole lot easier to cope with. :)
I guess there are two reasons for me being an atheist: the lack of
gods and the fact that I feel a damn lot better this way.
----------------------------------------------------
Rev. Antropos Esq.
(Freethinker)
"Sell your soul for a fortune-cookie."
The alt.atheism related website:
http://www.signature.nl/alt.atheism/
----------------------------------------------------
tetrahydrocannabinol
--
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, ß227, any and
all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address is subject to
a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 US. E-mailing
denotes acceptance of these terms.
Mickey wrote in message <364a1a1...@news.mindspring.com>...
|#62. Why are you an atheist?
Welp, makes much more sense than the alternative.
-=THC=-
Dread
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because it pissed off my father??
Seriously.. At the age of 5, I was pressured and pressured to be this christian
little boy, and I wanted to make my father happy.. So I did whatever a good
little christian boy was supposed to do. I even went to Christian School for my
3rd and 4th grade. My mother kicked out my father when I was 9, and I prayed
and prayed to God, asking him all kinds of questions. I was told that I would
feel God moving in my life. I never received any answers. I never felt God.
Try as I might, I never felt God. After that I pretty much decided that there
wasn't a god. He just didn't make sense, which I started feeling after reading
the bible for the umpthteen time. As I grew older, I started researching more,
hoping that I might have missed something. 9 years later, I've learned that I
didn't miss anything. God now is as much bunk as god was then...
--
Do Svidania,
Dread Atheist #1299
Head of the Division for Theist Subversion of BAAWA
ICQ #3290602
"He who will not reason is a bigot, he who cannot is a fool, he who dares not is a slave."
-William Drummond
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
--Galileo Galilei
http://www.erinet.com/dread/ <-- Dread's Atheist Arena
Sign the Atheist Manifesto while you visit.
Dread
>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
>This is actually a two-part question: Why do you not believe in *a* god, and
>why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
>For the first part of the question, I am not atheist. I fully accept the
If you aren't an atheist, why are you answering the question???
Therion T. Ware
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Agnostic actually.
Because, on the evidence, it is the most rational position, and most
moral position.
--
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"
- attrib: Pauline Reage.
Therion T. Ware
<cdub@-REMOVE_THIS-erols.com> wrote:
>Mickey wrote:
>>
>> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>
>I was born one. Also, my cat doesn't believe in god. She's
>never wrong.
Your cat does not need to believe because She's aware of Her own
existence.
Jessica M. Wolfman
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
I never saw any reason to believe that gods were real.
>Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
>
>High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>
>send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
>the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Jessica Wolfman
"It is said that whomsoever the gods wish to destroy they must first make mad.
In fact, whomsoever the gods wish to destroy they must first hand the equivalent
of a stick with a fizzling fuse and Acme Dynamite Company written on the side.
It's more interesting, and it doesn't take so long."
--Terry Pratchett, "Soul Music"
The Adventurers Guild - Recently Updated!
http://members.tripod.com/~theguild
Replace nospam.com with boo <dot> net to reply via email.
Fred Stone
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
I'm an atheist because of the scientific method, and the way in which my mother's
church (Assemblies of God - Swaggart's old outfit) dealt with scientific topics
like evolution. Also, because of the lousy example set by some of the church members,
by the time I was 15 or so, I could not reconcile these "godly" people with the
alleged teachings that they were "born again" into.
It's all my mother's fault too. She taught me to read before I ever got to kindergarten,
then turned me loose in the library.
I found out that I could get two adult-level books on my kid's card, and I went berserk. I had read
biology texts by the time I was 8 or 9.
The main feeling that I had when I was 15 was "don't tell me what to think, I'll
think for myself."
This did lead to some false steps, I mean I fell for the Von Daniken/Velikovsky trash
before I developed a critical sense.
--
Fred
aa # 1369
EAC Microbiologist - Saccharomyces division
Rebecca Jo McLaughlin
: #62. Why are you an atheist?
The religion meme failed to reproduce.
Beck
Christopher A. Lee
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>
I simply have no reason whatsoever to be theist. Why
should one need any reason *not* to be something
(like theist) that needs a reason to be?
George Ricker
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
I'm an atheist because I don't believe in god(s). I have found no convincing evidence that a god does exist and no compelling reason why it should. In my view the god hypothesis is the product of fear and ignorance. The god idea answers nothing. It is simply a pietistic way of begging any question.
>
> Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
>
> High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>
> send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>
> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
> The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
> the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
> ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
--
George Ricker
"Theology is not what we know about God,
but what we do not know about Nature."
Robert G. Ingersoll - "Some Mistakes of Moses"
Robert Huey
>
"The intelligent man portions his belief to the evidence" -- Hume
No evidence, no belief.
(A = without) + (theism = belief in a god) = atheism.
Robert Huey
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
"I think, therefore I am an atheist."
Alvaro Vallejos
Thanks for your honesty.
(No intentions to follow a tread, just a comment.)
See you, Alvaro
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said,
streams of living water will flow from within him." John 7:38
Bill Thacker
Mickey <hyp...@B5B7STSW.com> wrote:
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
I was raised Presbyterian. My parents and my church had the good
sense not to explain things very well. Rather than teaching the
complexities of theology, they just gave me a set of fables and
rules, arbitrary but backed up with a big stick.
As I got older, my interest in science blossomed. I tried to
rationalize my religion with my growing knowledge of cosmology and
became one of the "God made the Big Bang happen" people. It got
harder and harder to do as I learned more about the roots of
religion, and ultimately, I reserved a certain part of my brain - the
"No Thinking" section - as a safe haven for God and kept my belief
alive there by the simple expedient of pretending there was no
conflict. I could analyze the mythologies of others without even
thinking about applying the same techniques to my own beliefs.
But my faith began to fail when I realized that religion was
democratic. If something becomes socially acceptable, religion will
find a way to embrace it. I started seeing this pattern everywhere.
It started with homosexuality, which I'd been taught was a terrible
sin; but churches began welcoming gay members and even ordaining gay
clergy. Womens' equality? The Bible is pretty clear that women are
subservient, and Christian nations kept them that way for centuries,
but now we have female pastors. A "personal relationship with God"?
For hundreds of years worship was conducted in churches where the
great bulk of the denomination couldn't even see the ceremony - nor
understand it, as it was conducted in Latin. They believed the God's
blessing rained down on you just because you were within earshot, no
need to understand. Race? Religion supported black slavery here
until it became unpopular, then it jumped ship to the abolitionist
side - except for the Southern Baptists, who split off the main
denomination so they could keep their slaves.
That's when the bottom fell out. If I'm going to take a 2000-year-old
book as the basis of my life, the lessons that book teaches had damned
well better be timeless and unchanging. But I saw that the practices
I was following would have seemed bizarre, even heretical, to someone
who worshipped the same God a few hundred years before. If religion
doesn't offer absolute, timeless truth, then even if it's a pretty
story and a teaches good values, it must be a sham.
So you might say I'm an anti-fundamentalist. I agree with the fundies
that you can't pick and choose Bible passages. You have to either
accept the whole thing literally, or reject it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Bill Thacker Atheist #1363 gun...@ds.net
Bill's Rail Buggy Page: http://www.ds.net/~gunner/buggy/buggy.html
"The things that you're liable to read in the Bible -
it ain't necessarily so." - George and Ira Gershwin
Walksalone
Having stopped their contemplations on the mystery of life & uttered the
following:
Apologies Scott, you got snipped. Mickey is easier on the eyes.
>Mickey wrote:
>> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>> question.
>>
>> #62. Why are you an atheist?
Was baptized early on, but developed a habit that seems fatal to the various
myths. Started paying attention to what was written, said, & done. Noticed
early on it was easy to justify what was done with the writs of the myth,
especially xianity. Drew the conclusion I was being lied to & haven't looked
back since. Course seeing all the children & people suffering from incurable
disease didn't help a loving deity image worth a damn. Being told it was for
the best for a god knew best was rather like the icing on a cake. Ther is
more of course, but I doubt me I will ever accept xianity for anything but
what it is. Now Ba'al or Bacchus, there is a pleasant thought. No less
unreal, but an improvement if one must have a DIC.
Take care, strive to be happy.
A smile is a whisper of a laugh.
The politically incorrect walksalone at ala net
Mike Ruskai
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because nothing detectable by humans in the entire universe suggests any
other position.
- Mike
SA/AG#1106
Remove 'spambegone' to send e-mail.
Paul Roberts
>
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
Because at no time in my life have I ever seen any reason to believe
that “God”, gods and goddesses have any form of existence outside of
people’s imagination of them.
When I was a kid it seemed to me that religious people were pretending
to believe. I kind of still think that way except I now think that, for
the majority of theists, each religious act is an act of faith
confronting an element of doubt. Faith and doubt seem to me to be flip
sides of the same theistic coin. If you have no doubt you would not have
faith, you would have instead certainty or knowledge but not faith.
There are theists who claim they have no doubt. These are the sort of
people who regularly turn up in a.a. to pontificate wildly on the theme
of sinful atheists in denial of the reality of Jesus etc etc ...
It is these people, sometimes shockingly intemperate (the noble Stix has
nothing on the violent diatribes of ‘mr obvious’ and his murderous
friends), often allied with totalitarian moralists on the right wing of
American politics and frequently revelling in the destruction of anyone
the bible says they should hate, it is these people that make me take
atheism seriously.
I may have no doubts about atheism, but that does not give me the right
to impose my views on others. People who think they have such a right
have already lost part of their humanity.
Regards
Paul
paul dot w dot roberts at bt DELETETHIS dot com
PS: My prediction for 1999 is that the Republican party will lose itself
in an orgy of self-recrimination over the issue of public morality. Any
takers?
Chris Nelson
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because I don't believe in gods. Never have, never will (unless their
existence can be demonstrated).
Chris Nelson
Lynden1000
>>why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
>>For the first part of the question, I am not atheist. I fully accept the
>
>If you aren't an atheist, why are you answering the question???
>
>
>--
>Do Svidania,
>Dread Atheist #1299
>Head of the Division for Theist Subversion of BAAWA
>ICQ #3290602
>"He who will not reason is a bigot, he who cannot is a fool, he who dares not
>is a slave."
> -William Drummond
>
>I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with
>sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.
>--Galileo Galilei
>
>
>http://www.erinet.com/dread/ <-- Dread's Atheist Arena
>Sign the Atheist Manifesto while you visit.
perhaps you should try something new and actually read ALL of what I wrote.
Xalan
Mickey wrote in message <364a1a1...@news.mindspring.com>...
|These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
|question.
|
|#62. Why are you an atheist?
Whay is an Egg egg shaped, why does the sun come up every morning. I am what
I am.
Xalan
Atheist #1211
EAC (UK) Toxic Waste Dept.
(We can handle your fundie)
-------------------------------------------
What about faith?
It's Defective!
It's corroded and it's frayed
What about your Gods?
They're Defective!
They forgot the warranty
-------------------------------------------
|Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
|
|High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
|
|send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
|
|^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
|The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
|the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
Lewis Beard
: These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
: theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
: from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
: questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
: message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
: question.
: #62. Why are you an atheist?
I am without a belief in a god or gods because there exists not even the
slightest amount of verified evidence whuch would require deities to
explain.
It is also clear that fear and a need to understand fueled man's belief
in deities early on. In addition to being useful to explain things to
superstitious minds, religion also allowed an unseen, unstoppable force
to back up societal needs and general concerns. That way, there is an
intangible and horrible reason to not do things that may harm the society
at large. Groups are given reason to band together, so they survive.
Unfortunately, this leads to polarization and built-in excuses to fight
others. All of these things are readily apparent when one looks back on
history. Sadly, it is a survival instinct that children believe what
they are told (generally). You know, "fire hot" and "snake kill." This
also allows "god in sky" to be accepted as truth as well. Later society
and aggressive theists and social pressure make it impossible for most
people to honestly take a look at the world. When one realizes that this
has been going on, atheism becomes a clear choice.
Lewis
le...@netdoor.com
le...@lwb.org
a.a #1362
Chani
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because there is no god, and no evidence to support any such a being/s.
Chani, Atheist #1118; cov...@worldnet.att.net
ICQ #12345332
http://homepages.infoseek.com/~chanileslie/chanileslie.html
************************************************************
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother,
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint; I do not feel ashamed.
I'm your hell, I'm you dream, I am nothing in between;
you know you wouldn't want it any other way, so take
me as I am; that may mean you have to be a stronger
man............
**************************************************************
Mickey
>cool, I'll speak first...I am atheist because:
>
>well, I was having doubts about religion...then I started reading books and
>magazines about space, stars, etc, and I realized how insignificant people
>were to the universe. I kind of put that in the back of my head, until I
>came across an atheist web site,
>http://www.california.com/~rpcman/FREEDOM.HTM to be exact. I read articles
>there for a few hours, and finally decided that atheism makes much more
>sense than religion. basically, once I admitted to myself that it is
>possible that my religion was wrong, I became more open minded, and accepted
>things much easier, then I realized exactly how badly I had been, well,
>brainwashed into believing that religious crap, and I decided that I was
>atheist, no doubt about it....
>
>and that is how I became atheist.
That makes you #16 on the deconverted by the Internet list. :)
Jake
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>question.
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because I choose to see the world in terms of how it is, not how I
want it to be.
Jake
atheist #678
God.
ULC minister.
E.A.C. member.
BAAWA scribe #2
ICQ# 2062023
Otherwise known as lilbudha1.
Remove the numbers 123 to send e-mail.
### ANY e-mail sent to me is done with the express consent
that it may be used by me in whatever form I deem apropriate.###
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
" While I was in Africa I shot an elephant in my pajamas.
How it ever got into my pajamas I'll never know."
Groucho Marx
*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*+*
My pages....
The HTML Temple... http://internet-temple.hypermart.net/htmltemple1.html
The Internet Temple.... http://internet-temple.hypermart.net/entrance.html
Lilbudha1's Comic book review... http://www.fortunecity.com/boozers/drummonds/209/
Speak! Co-operative Dog Training... http://speak.hypermart.net
My home page.... http://members.tripod.com/~lilbudha1/index.html
My XXX home page (adults only).. http://lilbudha1.x2z.com
Super Asia !!!... (adults only).. http://www.nettaxi.com/citizens/superac
Bauerda
I never had a really strong belief in either God or Santa Claus; when I got
proof that one didn't exist, I stopped believing in the other as well. It made
perfect sense and has led to my quote: "God is Santa Claus for grownups."
It still makes perfect sense:
Both of them are all-knowing. Both of them reward good behavior and punish bad
behavior. Both of them do the impossible. Neither of them are ever seen.
David Bauer #1326
2Sen Jen's kin
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
I'd like to describe my first encounter with religion
and my instinctive and heroic struggle for truth against the
oppression of mysticism and organised faith so that
others might be inspired by my manful efforts to throw
off the bleaters yoke.
_But I can't._
Because I encountered neither hide nor hair of it until
my first day of school.
On my first day the teacher asked the class to say the
Lord's Prayer. Most of the kids started chanting some
rhyme, I didn't know the words so I made some up on
the spot. A kid beside me asked what was being said
and I gave him my version complete with nonsense words.
Nobody noticed our gibberish and the God matter wasn't
raised, in my life, again until the fourth year of primary
school.
It was then that I found myself in a divided city – divided
by religion (and soccer). I was soon asked what my
religious convictions were and found it difficult to
explain that I had none.
I would like to lay down the story of my resistance
to peer pressure and the threat of being ostracized and unfairly
shunned by kids and parents alike so that other atheists
harbouring bad memories of childhood could know a kindred
spirit and offer me heaps of sympathy.
***But I Can't***
For this was as nothing to the trials of explaining that I did
not support a soccer team, (anathema!). Just as quickly as
God had appeared He took a back seat. Anyway this was
the first time I thought "Religion? You can stuff it!"
I would love to tell you how I stood up to the system,
cast off the docterines cruelly enforced by the educational
establishment and held myself out as a light against the
superstitious darkness.
+++ BUT I CAN'T +++
Secondary education: A new town and for the first time
in my life I encountered mandatory religious education,
in the thin and nervous form of Miss McNaughton.
When she taught my class it started out like giving a
lesson to the Easter Island statues: grim, grey stares.
I remember a call for hands: "Who belongs to a religion ?"
One girl (a catholic) raised her hand in a class of thirty.
The rest shared knowing looks and stoney expressions.
The conspiracy of silence would last until boredom set in
and then we fell back on deliberate displays of confusion
and intransigent doubt. "Wut?", "God?", "Who?"
Miss McN used bibles –
"What does this verse mean ?" "Dunno."
"It tells us about the Holy Spirit." "Eh?"
"Do you think the Holy Spirit plays a part in your life ?" "No."
She brought in ministers for talks and discussion (all one
way), she brought in born again †tians who did a little play
on how hell could be equated with frustration and you could
tell it was a captive audience: utter silence. Nothing worked.
After two years of this poor Miss McNaughton had a mental
breakdown and we never saw her again.
To fill – a philosophy lecturer from a local university came in and
the remainder of the national religious curriculum was swept
under the carpet and not a complaint from pupil or parent.
In the last assembly/registration of my secondary school life
to be taken by an ordained minister we were asked, by him
"How many are †tians here ?", of 200 a couple of dozen raised
hands, "Oh, well, we'll skip prayer then."
Who reading this has not encountered the "God Squad" ?
Those vigorous fanatics that haunt every place of tertiary education,
who with force of numbers and acceptance of far too many of the
rest of the academic population persecute the unbelievers,
mercilessly. I would tell you of the intimidation and hot blooded
verbal battles I engaged in that had the campus echoing and every
mans back turned to me...
**********************************
### B U T > I < C A N'T ###
**********************************
I had to wait six months, living in the halls of residence, before one
turned up to hold forth in the communal kitchen. He was the most
incompetent bleater I have ever met and yet the most honest.
The night before the argument I had spent half an hour with one of
the bibles to be found in every room, the first time I had of my own
volition read one. This was enough to put me streets ahead of the
would be bleater.
Me: "Do you know the Ten Commandments ? No ? Well look them
up. What ? Oh give the bloody thing to me."
Twenty minutes in, a few quotes from the bible (all by me) concerning
women and every female in earshot was ready to gut him.
Except for his girl, that is, who was an American transfer student
and was by that time looking around with obvious surprise at the
hostile reception †tianity was getting: nobody was interested in it.
After what was, for him, a painful couple of hours he swore never
to get into an argument with me again. And he was as good as
his word. That was the end of it!
So, I assert that I am an atheist. Over the years I've reasoned
it through and logically eliminated the possibility of "God", as per usual,
but this has almost been redundant. What a dismal failure of an atheist
that I have no experiences with which to envigour the cause with or
exhort the masses. Oh woe.
2Sen
(It's like a fairytale – grim)
clot...@ieee.org
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
>
>High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>
>send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
>the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
me from the church.
Later, reading the fundie drivel in alt.atheism hardened my
conviction, and made me resolutely determined against the posibility
of any such religious weakening in the future. Now, to me, all
religion is not only delusional nonsense, it is absolutely an
absurdity that should never have been imagined in the first place.
I am indebted to all of the alt.atheism regulars for their
intellectual support.
Clothaire
HAAWA
jas...@omnilinx.net
<piggybacking>
> Mickey <hyp...@B5B7STSW.com> wrote:
> : These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> : theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> : from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> : questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> : message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> : question.
>
> : #62. Why are you an atheist?
Consider the alternative.
Jason P.
"I shall be asked why I have really narrated all these little things [...].
It is precisely here that one has to begin to learn anew." -Nietzsche
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
RipTide
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>
Laziness, mainly.
--
RipTide (no return email - too much spam)
All opinions are mine. Any resemblance to any other opinions,
living or dead, is purely coincidental
|\ _,,,---,,_
ZZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Cat. The other white meat.
______|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ (____-'___________________
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Darryl L. Pierce
;#62. Why are you an atheist?
For the same reason that I breath, I have no choice in the matter. I
could hold my breath, but the oxygen deprivation would kill brain
cells. Same thing if I tried to go to a church... =)))
Mise le meas,
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Darryl L. Pierce Alt.Atheism Member #1142, Death 'Piper of the BAAWA |
| Visit me @ http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Thinktank/1335/ |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Unsolicited email to this address is acceptance of a $500 per day |
| storage expense to be paid within 30 days of the sending of the email. |
+-------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
Darryl L. Pierce
<cdub@-REMOVE_THIS-erols.com> wrote:
;Mickey wrote:
;>
;> #62. Why are you an atheist?
;
;I was born one. Also, my cat doesn't believe in god. She's
;never wrong.
Heathen pussy!
Mickey
>O
>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>>
Are you saying that the Internet, through alt.atheism, caused you to
become an atheist or that it simply strengthened an already made
decision?
Keith Brannen
>
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
>
It can all be summed up like this:
Fortunately, at an early age, I learned the difference
between reality and fantasy/wishful thinking.
--
Keith Brannen
#713
(Remove REMOVE to reply.)
clot...@ieee.org
>clot...@ieee.org wrote:
>>O
>>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>>>
Twenty years ago I threw off the yoke of religion. I became a benign
atheist. I knew that religion was absolute nonsense for me, but I
thought that it was a reasonable choice of others.
Now after reading alt.atheism for four years, I know that religion is
an evil for all time and for all people, without exception. I went
from a benign atheist to a hard core atheist.
Fundie posts to alt.atheism have made me despise fundies with almost
an illicit passion. There is no possibility that I will ever have any
religious experience.
Clothairee
HAAWA
Mickey
>This is actually a two-part question: Why do you not believe in *a* god, and
>why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
>For the first part of the question, I am not atheist.
These questions are only to be answered by atheist or agnostic. That
is why there is an aa at the front of the thread title. This is
explained in the weekly newsgroup FAQ, as well as in each question
post. If you wanted to answer this question, you should have removed
the aa to start a new thread. I just removed the aa, in case you want
to respond.
Lynden1000
>These questions are only to be answered by atheist or agnostic. That
>is why there is an aa at the front of the thread title. This is
>explained in the weekly newsgroup FAQ, as well as in each question
>post. If you wanted to answer this question, you should have removed
>the aa to start a new thread. I just removed the aa, in case you want
>to respond.
>
>
>Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
>
>High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>
>send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
>the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>
>
>
Damn, you people do not read, I am not atheist, I am Agnostic, and the title
says that agnostics may answer this question!
Dread
>>>This is actually a two-part question: Why do you not believe in *a* god, and
>>>why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
>>>For the first part of the question, I am not atheist. I fully accept the
>>
>>If you aren't an atheist, why are you answering the question???
>
>perhaps you should try something new and actually read ALL of what I wrote.
Why? " I am not atheist" was clear enough for me.
erikc
-- origin: alt.atheism:
>|These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>|question.
>|
>|#62. Why are you an atheist?
Lots of reasons. Around age nine or ten, I read a book on Roman,
Greek and other mythologies which caused it to dawn on me that xianity
was also a myth. Then there was this ongoing observation that this
God character that my parents always talked about didn't really seem
to give a damn, what with all the bad shit that went on in the world.
Even when I prayed, nothing happened. Period. I guess the long and
the short of it is that I just sort of came to realise that talking to
invisible beings was a load of hooey and gave it up.
Erikc (SA #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
| "The Truth against the World."
| -- Bardic Motto
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for
people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.
---- Noam Chomsky
Keith Brannen
>
> lynde...@aol.com (Lynden1000) wrote:
> >This is actually a two-part question: Why do you not believe in *a* god, and
> >why do you not believe in a *specific* god.
> >For the first part of the question, I am not atheist.
>
> is why there is an aa at the front of the thread title. This is
> explained in the weekly newsgroup FAQ, as well as in each question
> post. If you wanted to answer this question, you should have removed
> the aa to start a new thread. I just removed the aa, in case you want
> to respond.
>
Mickey, please re-read Lynden1000's post. My reading of it
is that he/she is an atheist with regards to the various
gods/religions that mankind has come up with, but if
cosmological evidence ever points to a creator/higher power/
designer then so be it, but is skeptical about their being
one.
Lynden1000
>Why? " I am not atheist" was clear enough for me.
>
For the zillionth time (others have asked the same question), I am AGNOSTIC,
and as far as i can tell, the title of this post implies that both atheists AND
agnostics are free to answer.
Alf Salte
>
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>
a special class held by the local priest. This guy told us that
God is above reason.
I had and still have serious problems with this statement. The problem
is that if ANYTHING is above reason then there's no point in being
rational at all. Reason is such that the only way it makes sense is if
it is such that there is nothing above it.
If god is above reason then it means that whatever rational argument you
may make during your life becomes useless the moment that god decided to
do something else. Hence, reason would be useless.
However, looking around me I know that rationality is there and it's
there because it is vital for us. The fact that reason is so important
in our lives contradict the idea that anything - including god - can be
above it.
What could be the motive for such a statement? Well, stating such a
thing is essentially the same as saying 'my decisions cannot be
questioned'. This is the kind of things a tyrant/dictator would say.
Still, the priest claimed that 'god is good'. Again, it made no sense.
However, one couldn't question it due to the 'god is above reason'
argument. In other words: once you believe, you're trapped.
This is worse than drugs. It's a crime against humanity, what this
priest is preaching. Yet, he got paid by the government to brainwash us
children by spreading these lies.
I then became certain I'm an atheist. well...not quite...
The problem was that I did have the ideas that I now recognize as
'atheist' ideas. I did not believe in any god. However, when I started
in high-school first grade my teacher in religion ('religion' is one of
the subjects all first-year high school students have to have in Norway)
insisted that I wasn't an atheist. An 'atheist' in his definition was a
person who somehow thinks he knows there is no god. I.e. strong atheism.
Well...him having a university degree on these things (theology)
probably knew better than me what I was...so for many years I then
believed myself to be agnostic. It wasn't until well over a year ago
that I managed to get that confusion cleared up. Partly because I hadn't
bothered much about it, who cares what label people put on me, I know
what I think.
However, as I have now indicated that I am a weak atheist - I'm not a
strong atheist - I should add that I am a strong atheist with respect to
certain specific gods. There is no doubt in my mind that the christian
or biblical god doesn't exist. I take that as a matter of fact. I
consider people who believe the biblical god to exist just doesn't know
the facts. I have numerous reasons as to why it is impossible for the
biblical god to exist, I have numerous reasons why I think this
fictional god still managed to get into the bible and that many people
at that time and still choose to believe in this fiction. However, I
have absolutely no reason at all to think that it is anything but
fiction.
> Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
Alf
Lynden1000
>is a slave."
> -William Drummond
>
I think you should take the advice of this quote that you seem to appreciate.
You would not even read my entire post before attacking me. If you had read it,
you would have seen that I am an agnostic. I really don't see the "reason" in
your hasty conclusions.
Bob and Suzanne Kessler
erikc wrote in message <>...
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT
>hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>-- origin: alt.atheism:
>
>>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>>|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>>|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>>|question.
>>|
>>|#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
>Greek and other mythologies which caused it to dawn on me that
xianity
>was also a myth. Then there was this ongoing observation that this
>God character that my parents always talked about didn't really seem
>to give a damn, what with all the bad shit that went on in the world.
>Even when I prayed, nothing happened. Period. I guess the long and
>the short of it is that I just sort of came to realise that talking
to
>invisible beings was a load of hooey and gave it up.
>
>
>
>Erikc (SA #002)
>
you were little, why do you think that nothing went on?
For example, say there was a war somewhere and you
saw the awful things on television that went on, and you
were so moved by the sadness and you prayed. Now, how
would you know that God did not carry out your prayer?
>
Suzanne
Bob and Suzanne Kessler
Alf Salte wrote in message <364A99A2...@funcom.com>...
>Mickey wrote:
>>
>> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>> question.
>>
>> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>>
The reason that I believe in Christ is not because
of intellectual reasoning. It is because, I felt his
presence in a strong way one day. I knew beyond
a shadow of a doubt that it was the Lord. My father
had been murdered and I was a child. The murderer
got away with it, and was not found. I feared that he
would come after me or my family. Through a series
of events the Lord revealed himself to me, and when
he did, and I knew that he was there, I still would not
accept him as my Savior. Finally, his presence was
just so fresh and loving, that I did make that decision.
Then I got peace which is not "happiness" but a joy...
This was something that is present when I am scared,
and when I am worried, etc. In my thoughts, he talks to
me in the thought process. I can give you an example.
I woke up one day, and the man next door came to my
mind. I had the thought about the fact that he needed
a job. I knew someone who could employ him. Yet,
I pushed that out of my mind. A little later, the thought
came back to me. Again I pushed that out of my mind.
The third time, about 15 minutes later. Suddenly there
in my thoughts, a strong feeling that I should call our
friend to see if he could give this person a job. The
call was a success, as there was a job for him. I went
to see his wife and told her. She was so excited. It
seems that she had been praying all morning for him
to get a job. So......it is all discerned spiritually. I believe
that it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking to me. He
did not need me. He wanted me to know he wanted me
though.
>
It is a matter of the heart and not of the intellect is what
I understand. All I know is that it works. The Lord gives
me joy and peace and comfort, when life dishes out
certain things. He also gives me direction, and guidance.
>
Suzanne
boog
>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
My first step towards atheism I can recall, is after watching The Ten
Commandments with my family( I'm not sure how old I was, probably 6-7)
When God decided he would kill the first born son of anyone who didn't
have the blood on their door I was appalled. I asked my mom why he would
kill the children, when they were in fact innocent. She chuckled at me and
said "Because he's God, he can do whatever he wants!" (BTW I think she was
serious) It seemed to me that was very cruel, and I had to wonder what was
stopping him from punishing me for my parents sins(I knew they had their
share) This commenced the thought that maybe God wasn't the good guy after
all.
Other things came to me later on, a little at a time, I became interested
in science at school etc.
Some music also influenced me. One song that got me thinking was "Dear
God" by XTC. At this point I was probably 12 or so.
Little by little god slipped far, far away, into never never land.
(That and the fact I am a tool for Satan) yeah he got me with those pesky
God blinder thingys.
Deb
Fritz
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
1. The complete lack of tenable evidence supporting the existence of
anything remotely resembling any religion's description of "god".
2. The logical paradoxes inherent in religious philosophies, such as the
claimed co-existence of god's omnipotence and man's free will.
3. The undeniable (and sometimes humorous) errors in religious texts,
supposedly written under the direction of this supreme being.
In general, the unmistakeable stamp of human creation on religion, and
thus the fallacy of the underlying premise. Oddly, even those who believe
can see this - they simply see it in every religion except their own.
Fritz
--
"If we assume that man actually does resemble God, then we are
forced into the impossible theory that God is a coward, an idiot
and a bounder." H.L. Mencken
Fritz
<cdub@-REMOVE_THIS-erols.com> wrote:
> Mickey wrote:
> >
> > #62. Why are you an atheist?
>
> I was born one. Also, my cat doesn't believe in god. She's
> never wrong.
My dog thinks I am a god of sorts while I am opening her can of food. Her
slavish devotion and worshipful attention during those moments would make
any fundamentalist proud.
Daniel Talso
kbra...@execulinkREMOVE.com says...
Agreed. Lynden is clearly a weak atheist or agnostic by the
defninitions in the FAQ. (S)he makes this very clear...to me at
least...in the rest of the post.
Dread also seems to have made this mistake.
:)
Dan (#236)
--
Daniel Talso
UNM Manufacturing Engineering Program
da...@unm.edu
Daniel Talso
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
>
Lots of reasons. But the real beginning was the spanking I (and my
evil cohorts) received in a Lutheran elementary school (spent 6 months of
second grade there) for collecting small fossils from the gravel covering
the recess yard. The principle of the school was interested when they
were just rocks...he was angry when I identified them as fossilized
plants. He took us to a back room, lectured us on some scripture, and
beat us (swatted really, it wasn't that hard) with an old ping pong
paddle. I was shocked that all this occured for collecting fossils and
that this punishment was somehow justified by this man's religious
tenets. It got me to thinking. The rest of my education and life filled
in the rest.
psych...@xpoint.at
"Bob and Suzanne Kessler" <bo...@cyberramp.net> wrote:
>
> erikc wrote in message <>...
> >On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT
> >hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
> >-- origin: alt.atheism:
> >
> >>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> >>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> >>|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> >>|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> >>|question.
> >>|
> >>|#62. Why are you an atheist?
> >
> >Greek and other mythologies which caused it to dawn on me that
> xianity
> >was also a myth. Then there was this ongoing observation that this
> >God character that my parents always talked about didn't really seem
> >to give a damn, what with all the bad shit that went on in the world.
> >Even when I prayed, nothing happened. Period. I guess the long and
> >the short of it is that I just sort of came to realise that talking
> to
> >invisible beings was a load of hooey and gave it up.
> >
> >
> >
> >Erikc (SA #002)
> >
> Erikc, could I ask you a question? When you prayed when
> you were little, why do you think that nothing went on?
> For example, say there was a war somewhere and you
> saw the awful things on television that went on, and you
> were so moved by the sadness and you prayed. Now, how
> would you know that God did not carry out your prayer?
> >
> Suzanne
>
When I was a child and traveling with my parents, I used to open the car
window and spread anti-lion powder.
See, it worked! No free-running lions in Austria!
(For the sarcasm-challenged: It took me quite a while to find an argument as
silly as the one in the previous post ...)
Hans-Richard Grümm
Stix
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
See .sig file.
Stix
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
"Mysticism is a disease of the mind."
*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Keith Brannen
>
> Alf Salte wrote in message <364A99A2...@funcom.com>...
> >Mickey wrote:
> >>
> >> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> >> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> >> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> >> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> >> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> >> question.
> >>
<snipped question and Alf's reply>
<snipped Suzanne's death-cult babble>
Suzanne, do you have a problem comprehending English?
These questions are for atheists/agnostics. If you
MUST add your religious clap-trap...
REMOVE THE aa FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE THREAD TITLE!
Understand?
mike
Fritz wrote:
> *snip*
> My dog thinks I am a god of sorts while I am opening her can of food. Her
> slavish devotion and worshipful attention during those moments would make
> any fundamentalist proud.
>
>*snip*
Wow, I really had a good laugh, thank you.
stoney
[>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
[>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
[>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
[>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
[>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
[>question.
[>
[>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Because I'm not a theist.
[it seems to be a silly question]
Regards,
Stoney
toto
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Ciao
起^
\
toto
aa#1286 EAC#128 UAAR
sh...@baawa.org
"Bob and Suzanne Kessler" <bo...@cyberramp.net> wrote:
<snip>
Only atheists/agnostics may post to threads marked "aa". Any theists wishing
to add to these threads must remove the "aa" from the beginning of the
subject header. Please read the FAQ. They were posted only yesterday, so
you can hardly have missed them unless you are being willfully ignorant.
Willfully ignorant? A xian? Never...
--
shan #1163
EAC TNA BAAWA(ssc)
CASHP #10-97 CASHK #97-002
Liz
<bo...@cyberramp.net> in alt.atheism wrote:
Read this ------->
>>>|These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>>>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>>>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>>>|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>>>|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>>>|question.
......^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
<snip question and Suzanne's response to an a.a. thread in which the
above was included as big as life>
>Suzanne
Suzanne, did you read the above instructions for a.a. threads. These
threads are limited to atheists. You impolitely barged into a private
conversation to which you were specifically disinvited -- twice. If
you wish to respond to something written in an a.a. thread, follow the
instructions and START A NEW THREAD like I have just done,
Oh, I get it. You think the above instructions couldn't possibly
apply to you. You're Suzanne and you are special because GodŽ loves
you so you can just ignore the atheists' conventions in their own
newsgroup.
>It is a matter of the heart and not of the intellect is what
>I understand. All I know is that it works. The Lord gives
>me joy and peace and comfort, when life dishes out
>certain things. He also gives me direction, and guidance.
Ask him to give you direction and guidance about the rudeness of your
present behavior or try using your intellect just a little bit. It
may hurt at first, but after a while, thinking for yourself becomes a
joy.
You may express your thoughts in this thread or start one with your
own as long as it does not include "a.a." in the title. If you
possess any social skills whatsoever, you will cease from posting in
an atheist only thread. Persist in your discourtesy and I shall taunt
you a second time, however not quite so gently.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Christian: one who believes that the New Testament is a
divinely inspired book admirably suited to the spiritual
needs of his neighbors. -- Ambrose Bierce
Frank Wustner
> #62. Why are you an atheist?
Because I was never anything else. I was not raised into any
religion. So by the time I realized that anyone actually took
religion seriously, I was too far gone into my education to take
up a religion.
--
The Deadly Nightshade
http://members.tripod.com/~deadly_nightshade
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
|"I, too, believe in fate... |"Ack. Thpppbt." Bill the Cat |
|the fate a man makes for himself." |-----------------------------------|
|Lord Soth | Atheist #119 |
|-----------------------------------| Knight of BAAWA! |
|"Quoth the raven, 'Eat my shorts!'"|-----------------------------------|
|Edgar Allan Bart | niteshade(at)mindspring(dot)com |
|-----------------------------------|-----------------------------------|
Dave Holloway
"Bob and Suzanne Kessler" <bo...@cyberramp.net> wrote:
>
> erikc wrote in message <>...
> >On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT
> >hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
> >-- origin: alt.atheism:
> >
> >>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> >>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> >>|questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> >>|message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> >>|question.
> >>|
> >
> >Greek and other mythologies which caused it to dawn on me that
> xianity
> >was also a myth. Then there was this ongoing observation that this
> >God character that my parents always talked about didn't really seem
> >to give a damn, what with all the bad shit that went on in the world.
> >Even when I prayed, nothing happened. Period. I guess the long and
> >the short of it is that I just sort of came to realise that talking
> to
> >invisible beings was a load of hooey and gave it up.
> >
> >
> >
> >Erikc (SA #002)
> >
> Erikc, could I ask you a question? When you prayed when
> you were little, why do you think that nothing went on?
> For example, say there was a war somewhere and you
> saw the awful things on television that went on, and you
> were so moved by the sadness and you prayed. Now, how
> would you know that God did not carry out your prayer?
You can use that kind of illogic to "prove" anything. Example:
1) I prayed to Bob the Rain God* to keep koala bears far away from me.
2) There are no koala bears within hundreds of miles of Fargo.
Therefore,
3) Bob the Rain God exists.
I know that the Judeo-Christian God didn't carry out the prayer because the
Judeo-Christian God does not exist. This has been substantiated to me well
enough so that I can call it a fact. Not only do the arguments from
incoherence, evil and nonbelief prove it, but Bob the Rain God said so.
Incidentally, theists may not talk in threads which begin with aa. They have
to either ignore those threads, or take the aa out of the subject line when
replying. If you had read the FAQ you would know that.
Dave
*With thanks to Judith Hayes
--
From the warped mind of Dave Holloway, #1184
http://members.xoom.com/silentdave/atheist.html
Dave Holloway
"Bob and Suzanne Kessler" <bo...@cyberramp.net> wrote:
[snip]
> The reason that I believe in Christ is not because
> of intellectual reasoning. It is because, I felt his
> presence in a strong way one day. I knew beyond
> a shadow of a doubt that it was the Lord.
You're wrong. It was Bob the Rain God. The Christian god does not exist. I
know this because Bob told me.
> My father
> had been murdered and I was a child. The murderer
> got away with it, and was not found. I feared that he
> would come after me or my family. Through a series
> of events the Lord revealed himself to me, and when
> he did, and I knew that he was there, I still would not
> accept him as my Savior. Finally, his presence was
> just so fresh and loving, that I did make that decision.
> Then I got peace which is not "happiness" but a joy...
> This was something that is present when I am scared,
> and when I am worried, etc. In my thoughts, he talks to
> me in the thought process.
That would be yourself talking to yourself. Or Bob the Rain God. Sometimes he
sounds like the Christian god (whatever -he- would sound like) just to confuse
you.
> I can give you an example.
> I woke up one day, and the man next door came to my
> mind. I had the thought about the fact that he needed
> a job. I knew someone who could employ him. Yet,
> I pushed that out of my mind. A little later, the thought
> came back to me. Again I pushed that out of my mind.
> The third time, about 15 minutes later. Suddenly there
> in my thoughts, a strong feeling that I should call our
> friend to see if he could give this person a job. The
> call was a success, as there was a job for him. I went
> to see his wife and told her. She was so excited. It
> seems that she had been praying all morning for him
> to get a job. So......it is all discerned spiritually. I believe
> that it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking to me. He
> did not need me. He wanted me to know he wanted me
> though.
He wants you, and if he can't have you, he'll torture you for eternity. Nice
inscentive, eh?
> It is a matter of the heart and not of the intellect is what
> I understand. All I know is that it works. The Lord gives
> me joy and peace and comfort, when life dishes out
> certain things. He also gives me direction, and guidance.
I'm not questioning the reality of your religious experiences. But I -am-
saying that that's all they are: experiences. They do not necessarily point to
anything outside of your own mind.
Please see the notation about the aa in subject threads.
Dave
Mickey
>>
>You are very honest with yourself and that is good.
>The reason that I believe in Christ is not because
>of intellectual reasoning. It is because, I felt his
>Suzanne
>
>
If you had had the courtesy to read the newsgroup FAQ that is posted
every Wednesday, you would know that theists are not supposed to
respond to threads that have aa in front of the title. Obviously, you
haven't. Your discourtesy is noted.
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
Mickey
>>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT
>>hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>>-- origin: alt.atheism:
>>
>>>|theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>>>|from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread.
snip
>Erikc, could I ask you a question? When you prayed when
>you were little, why do you think that nothing went on?
>For example, say there was a war somewhere and you
>saw the awful things on television that went on, and you
>were so moved by the sadness and you prayed. Now, how
>would you know that God did not carry out your prayer?
>>
>Suzanne
>
>
Your deliberate discourtesy has been noted.
Mark Richardson
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>>
>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>Because there are too many gods.
>toto
>aa#1286 EAC#128 UAAR
Not only that, but all the available gods "fail to meet minimum
standards".(of morality and "saneness" for a start)
If I was to worship a god it would have to be WORTHY of worship.
I guess I am an atheist because I have high standards.
I couldn't worship a god that demanded human sacrifice or could "visit
the sins of the fathers onto the sons" or sanctioned that women be
treated as possessions of men.
That is why in one sense I would be an atheist (without god) even if
they existed!
Luckily they are all non existent so I dont have to make such
powerfull enemies.
8-)
Mark.
------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Richardson
m.rich...@utas.edu.au
____________________________________________________________
Mickey
>On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 02:27:03 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>
>>clot...@ieee.org wrote:
>>>O
>>>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>>>>
>>>me from the church.
>>>
>>> Later, reading the fundie drivel in alt.atheism hardened my
>>>conviction, and made me resolutely determined against the posibility
>>>of any such religious weakening in the future. Now, to me, all
>>>religion is not only delusional nonsense, it is absolutely an
>>>absurdity that should never have been imagined in the first place.
>>>
>>>I am indebted to all of the alt.atheism regulars for their
>>>intellectual support.
>>>
>>>Clothaire
>>>HAAWA
>>
>>Are you saying that the Internet, through alt.atheism, caused you to
>>become an atheist or that it simply strengthened an already made
>>decision?
>>
>Twenty years ago I threw off the yoke of religion. I became a benign
>atheist. I knew that religion was absolute nonsense for me, but I
>thought that it was a reasonable choice of others.
>
>Now after reading alt.atheism for four years, I know that religion is
>an evil for all time and for all people, without exception. I went
>from a benign atheist to a hard core atheist.
>
>Fundie posts to alt.atheism have made me despise fundies with almost
>an illicit passion. There is no possibility that I will ever have any
>religious experience.
>
>Clothairee
>
>HAAWA
Thanks for your response. We're still at 16, then. Atheists - 16,
fundies - 0
I have to say that I've gone through similar changes to yours, since
finding alt.atheism. This newsgroup is a real eye-opener.
Mickey
If that is so, my apologies to Lynden.
Mickey
>>
>>These questions are only to be answered by atheist or agnostic. That
>>is why there is an aa at the front of the thread title. This is
>>explained in the weekly newsgroup FAQ, as well as in each question
>>post. If you wanted to answer this question, you should have removed
>>the aa to start a new thread. I just removed the aa, in case you want
>>to respond.
>>
>>
>>
>>High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
>>
>>send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
>>
>>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>>The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
>>the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
>>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>>
>>
>>
>
>says that agnostics may answer this question!
I was hoping you would write back so I could apologize. You're right.
I didn't read the entire article as well as I should have.
Mickey
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>>
>°_^
> \
>toto
>aa#1286 EAC#128 UAAR
One is too many.
Lynden1000
>
>
>
Thanks, Mickey, I appreciate it.
If there is one thing I hate being accused of, its being a Christian <shudder>.
Mickey
>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>
>[>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>[>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>[>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>[>question.
>[>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
> Because I'm not a theist.
>
>[it seems to be a silly question]
>
>Regards,
>Stoney
Well, it was asked by a theist.
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
Mickey
>>
>
>If there is one thing I hate being accused of, its being a Christian <shudder>.
Understandable. :)
ot...@tn.village.it
(Mickey) wrote:
>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread.
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
Well, because I was not convinced by any religion!
Maybe it's lack of evidence about God/s, maybe it's the
intrinsic non rational crap ("Believe it and it'll become
true!"), maybe because religions require a partially sick
mind to be followed entirely (I'm referring to the Catholics
and their senses of guilty) or simply because I hate
tyrants. Or maybe it's a mix of the said three (and more).
>Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
[...]
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
>The man who worships a tyrant in heaven naturally submits his neck to
>the yoke of tyrants on earth. - George W. Foot, Flowers of Freethought
>^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
About tyrants... Just on the spot!
---
otto, a.a a. #0000584
Genova, Italia
remove god from my e-mail (and from the world)
"I don't hate the inferior races" (Alex Vange, Xian on a.atheism)
Check your # in a.a List!
http://www.alger.it/otto/default.html
Alf Salte
>
> Alf Salte wrote in message <364A99A2...@funcom.com>...
> >Mickey wrote:
> >>
> >>
> > want the details>
> >
> You are very honest with yourself and that is good.
to have a problem in that particular realm....
> The reason that I believe in Christ is not because
> of intellectual reasoning. .
You should try, it might move you away from the death cult.
> It is because, I felt his
> presence in a strong way one day. I knew beyond
> a shadow of a doubt that it was the Lord.
Granted, you felt it was 'the Lord' but do you really know WHICH lord?
You THINK it was the one described in the bible. How can you be so sure
about that? You felt some 'power' perhaps but one thing is feeling such
a thing, a completely different thing is concluding that it must be 'the
Lord as described in the bible'. There are two major obstacles from
jumping to such conclusion.
1. FEELING a presence and deducing that it really was SOMETHING
(external to yourself) which caused this feeling. I.e. How do you know
you weren't just imagining things?
2. IF you manage to conclude that you weren't imagining things and there
really was 'someone' there. Then you get the question who this 'someone'
is. Ok, you felt it was 'the Lord' but which lord is that? How do you
know it was the one described in the bible?
If you are honest with yourself and you picture yourself in the shoes of
someone who has never read the bible but instead read some religious
writings from other religions. Wouldn't you then feel a 'strong
presence' and then draw the conclusion that it was the god from that
particular writing. You would feel a 'strong presence' and immediately
conclude that it was whatever god-figure you already know about and are
familiar with. Since you grew up in the part of the world which is
largely dominated by christianity your conclusion that 'this must be
Jesus' may be a product of this fact and not due to it really being
Jesus if you get my point.
In other words, it is overwhelmingly possible that you have fooled
yourself and very very slim chance that it really was what you believe
it was. The slim chance is that you can confidently dismiss all the
objections which I am pointing out here. (there are more actually but
these should suffice for a starter).
> My father
> had been murdered and I was a child. The murderer
> got away with it, and was not found. I feared that he
> would come after me or my family. Through a series
> of events the Lord revealed himself to me,
Did he tell you the identify of the murderer?
> and when
> he did, and I knew that he was there, I still would not
> accept him as my Savior. Finally, his presence was
> just so fresh and loving, that I did make that decision.
The warm and fuzzy feeling, it's nice isn't it?
That's what drug addicts think as well.
> Then I got peace which is not "happiness" but a joy...
> This was something that is present when I am scared,
Yes, the 'warm and fuzzy' feeling is quite addictive.....
Alcoholics also find comfort in the bottle when they get scared....
> and when I am worried, etc. In my thoughts, he talks to
> me in the thought process. I can give you an example.
> I woke up one day, and the man next door came to my
> mind. I had the thought about the fact that he needed
> a job. I knew someone who could employ him. Yet,
> I pushed that out of my mind. A little later, the thought
> came back to me. Again I pushed that out of my mind.
> The third time, about 15 minutes later. Suddenly there
> in my thoughts, a strong feeling that I should call our
> friend to see if he could give this person a job. The
> call was a success, as there was a job for him. I went
> to see his wife and told her. She was so excited. It
> seems that she had been praying all morning for him
> to get a job. So......it is all discerned spiritually.
Well, I don't know the exact circumstances but I can offer other
explanations under various assumptions. ALthough, I'm afraid that my
explanations are not so fantastic as yours...
You probably already knew that your neighbor didn't have a job. Either
you flat out knew it or you may have guessed from various chats with his
wife or himself. So the way that you knew he didn't have a job isn't
that mysterious after all. Of course, I am guessing a lot here but I
think it is a reasonable guess I am making.
Secondly, your brain - is a wonderful thing - you can sometimes think
about a problem without being aware that you think about a problem. You
are probably a 'nice and caring' person so even if you wasn't aware of
it you cared about your neighbor's situation.
You probably came up with the idea that he would fit nicely for this
job. Perhaps your friend had previously hinted that it would be nice to
get some help for this job.
As I already said, I am guessing here so it may be that some details are
different but it is amazing how often people seek for a supernatural
explanation when a perfectly natural explanation is the one that is most
immediately available.
> I believe
> that it was the Holy Spirit that was speaking to me. He
> did not need me. He wanted me to know he wanted me
> though.
You interpret this as you wish but that doesn't mean it really is the
way you think it is. Keep an open mind, be aware that there may be a
zillion other explanations that will also explain what is going on. Some
or more of these are not fantastic or extraordinary.
> It is a matter of the heart and not of the intellect is what
> I understand.
It's many years since people believed the heart was the center of
feelings. I therefore assume that you use this expression as a 'figure
of speech' as I myself sometimes use it.
However, you must be aware that it is only that - a figure of speech.
Feelings, just like what people normally call 'intellect' are BOTH
centered in the brain. The heart is nothing more than a blood pump - a
muscle which pumps your blood through your veins, no more - no less.
Thus, although many people tend to put intellect and feelings up against
each other they are actually not that different. They are both
activities that takes place in the brain and they are done by
associating things with other things.
However, intellect is based on REASON. This makes it in many ways
superior. In some situations the feelings part is the better, since you
often do not have time or resources to make out the rational choice or
come up with a thorough reason why you choose something over another.
Often such a choice isn't that important - for example, people rarely
make a rational choice if they choose blue socks over green socks in any
particular day, they just pick some socks - who cares what color they
are! Thus a non-rational choices are in many situations superior over
rational choices as the rational choice would make you spend a lot of
time finding rational explanations when you don't have any.
When it comes to religion, it is more or less by definition so that
people consider they don't have the resources to come up with rational
explanations and so they just BELIEVE. The problem is that religion
tells the religious that IT is so IMPORTANT. It is the MOST IMPORTANT
aspect of your life. Thus, you REALLY SHOULD make a rational choice. If
you don't have the resources to do so you may escape to just BELIEVE but
it really isn't a good choice. A better choice would be to spend some
more time and reflect over a choice that is so important to your life.
This means that you should try to make a rational choice in this case
and just believing isn't good enough.
> All I know is that it works.
Are you sure it works?
> The Lord gives
> me joy and peace and comfort,
What if is all fake? What happens when someone or the wind catches one
of the bottom cards in your house of cards?
> when life dishes out
> certain things. He also gives me direction, and guidance.
If it is all fake that direction and guidance is also fake. You
shouldn't trust it.
> Suzanne
Alf
Carl Funk
> >
>
> evil cohorts) received in a Lutheran elementary school (spent 6 months of
> second grade there) for collecting small fossils from the gravel covering
> the recess yard. The principle of the school was interested when they
> were just rocks...he was angry when I identified them as fossilized
> plants. He took us to a back room, lectured us on some scripture, and
> beat us (swatted really, it wasn't that hard) with an old ping pong
> paddle. I was shocked that all this occured for collecting fossils and
> that this punishment was somehow justified by this man's religious
> tenets. It got me to thinking. The rest of my education and life filled
> in the rest.
>
spanking!
Seriously, I think I could've avoided years of pain if *my* Lutheran
school principal paddled me. When I went to him with my questions of
why science conflicted with the Bible, I got some very gentle, fatherly
lectures. They (my parents, pastor, teachers) were able to keep me
coming back to the fold for *years*, mainly because it was clear they
cared very much for me, and were worried about me. I trusted them,
which was the main cause of most of the suffering that followed.
--
Carl Funk "nil illegitimi carborundum" ICQ#16282427
a.a atheist #1229 member, EAC Decryption Squad
to bypass my SPAM-deflector, it helps if you realize I am
asthmatic. i.e. no SMOKING please!
Liz
<kbra...@execulinkREMOVE.com> in alt.atheism wrote:
>Mickey wrote:
>>
>> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>> question.
>>
>> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>>
>
>It can all be summed up like this:
>Fortunately, at an early age, I learned the difference
>between reality and fantasy/wishful thinking.
The other day when listening to Christian radio (I know), a program
called Family Life Today instructed parents how to ensure that their
toddlers understood the difference between fantasy, like Red Riding
Hood, and truth, like Noah's Ark. These same people bemoan the lack
of critical thinking in the present younger generation and blame it on
the lack of prayer in schools.
I am an atheist because it is the only rational position I can hold.
I can not believe the unbelievable, grovel to the nonexistent, nor
feel love from a myth.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Ideas without truth are hallucinations. - Don Antropos
Bud
<364C0D...@SMOKINGameritech.net>...
> Daniel Talso wrote:
> >
> > In article <364a1a1...@news.mindspring.com>, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com
> > says...
> > >
> > >
> >
> > evil cohorts) received in a Lutheran elementary school (spent 6 months
of
> > second grade there) for collecting small fossils from the gravel
covering
> > the recess yard. The principle of the school was interested when they
> > were just rocks...he was angry when I identified them as fossilized
> > plants. He took us to a back room, lectured us on some scripture, and
> > beat us (swatted really, it wasn't that hard) with an old ping pong
> > paddle. I was shocked that all this occured for collecting fossils and
> > that this punishment was somehow justified by this man's religious
> > tenets. It got me to thinking. The rest of my education and life
filled
> > in the rest.
> >
> Oh, you were *so* lucky, you got a *spanking*. I *never* got a
> spanking!
>
> Seriously, I think I could've avoided years of pain if *my* Lutheran
> school principal paddled me. When I went to him with my questions of
> why science conflicted with the Bible, I got some very gentle, fatherly
> lectures. They (my parents, pastor, teachers) were able to keep me
> coming back to the fold for *years*, mainly because it was clear they
> cared very much for me, and were worried about me. I trusted them,
> which was the main cause of most of the suffering that followed.
>
Lutheran grade school principal made a special point to lecture to us about
the evils of taking any science-related subjects in either high school or
college. We were told that science was the work of the devil. Prehaps he
was right because it opened my eyes about many of the so-called "truths"
of the Bible. No wonder God's biggest fear was that man should eat of the
tree of knowledge.
leel...@geocities.com
hyp...@B5B7STSW.com wrote:
> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
> question.
>
>
>
Because the god-thingy isn't necessary.
Daniel Talso
nos...@nospamxxx.net says...
> Carl Funk <cf...@SMOKINGameritech.net> wrote in article
> <364C0D...@SMOKINGameritech.net>...
> > Daniel Talso wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > #62. Why are you an atheist?
> > > >
> > >
> > > evil cohorts) received in a Lutheran elementary school (spent 6 months
> of
> > > second grade there) for collecting small fossils from the gravel
> covering
> > > the recess yard. The principle of the school was interested when they
> > > were just rocks...he was angry when I identified them as fossilized
> > > plants. He took us to a back room, lectured us on some scripture, and
> > > beat us (swatted really, it wasn't that hard) with an old ping pong
> > > paddle. I was shocked that all this occured for collecting fossils and
> > > that this punishment was somehow justified by this man's religious
> > > tenets. It got me to thinking. The rest of my education and life
> filled
> > > in the rest.
> > >
> > Oh, you were *so* lucky, you got a *spanking*. I *never* got a
> > spanking!
> >
> > Seriously, I think I could've avoided years of pain if *my* Lutheran
> > school principal paddled me. When I went to him with my questions of
> > why science conflicted with the Bible, I got some very gentle, fatherly
> > lectures. They (my parents, pastor, teachers) were able to keep me
> > coming back to the fold for *years*, mainly because it was clear they
> > cared very much for me, and were worried about me. I trusted them,
> > which was the main cause of most of the suffering that followed.
> >
Interesting perspective :). Yes, I do feel somewhat lucky with regards
to that particular incident in my life; afterall it galvanized my desire
to learn more about the world around me rather than hide from it. I am
also lucky that my parents were not and have not been particulary active
in any religion (it turns out my attending that school was more related
to it volunteering to handle the public school overflow near Redstone
Arsenal, Alabama and the fact that my parents saw no harm in it...at
the time :) ). That would have been a struggle.
> Just before my 8th grade class finished up our last day of class, my
> Lutheran grade school principal made a special point to lecture to us about
> the evils of taking any science-related subjects in either high school or
> college. We were told that science was the work of the devil. Prehaps he
> was right because it opened my eyes about many of the so-called "truths"
> of the Bible. No wonder God's biggest fear was that man should eat of the
> tree of knowledge.
>
Amen.
Dan (#236)
--
Daniel Talso
UNM Manufacturing Engineering Program
da...@unm.edu
stoney
[>sto...@stoney.net (stoney) wrote:
[>>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
[>>
[>>[>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
[>>[>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
[>>[>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
[>>[>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
[>>[>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
[>>[>question.
[>>[>#62. Why are you an atheist?
[>> Because I'm not a theist.
[>>[it seems to be a silly question]
[>Well, it was asked by a theist.
Ah, that explains the silly question, Thank you... :)
Regards,
Stoney
stoney
wrote:
[>On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 22:10:51 GMT, mini...@tin.it (toto) wrote:
[>
[>>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
[>>>
[>>>#62. Why are you an atheist?
[>>Because there are too many gods.
[>
[>>toto
[>>aa#1286 EAC#128 UAAR
[>Not only that, but all the available gods "fail to meet minimum
[>standards".(of morality and "saneness" for a start)
[>If I was to worship a god it would have to be WORTHY of worship.
[>I guess I am an atheist because I have high standards.
Umm, if I may. Would it be more accurate to indicate you are an atheist because
you have *standards?* [meaning theism exists because of a lack of standards, or
morals]
[>I couldn't worship a god that demanded human sacrifice or could "visit
[>the sins of the fathers onto the sons" or sanctioned that women be
[>treated as possessions of men.
[>That is why in one sense I would be an atheist (without god) even if
[>they existed!
[>Luckily they are all non existent so I dont have to make such
[>powerfull enemies.
[>8-)
[>
[>Mark.
Regards,
Stoney
[>------------------------------------------------------------
[>Mark Richardson
[>m.rich...@utas.edu.au
[>
[>____________________________________________________________
Andrew Lias
Mickey <hyp...@B5B7STSW.com> wrote:
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
The utter lack of any compelling reason to suppose that any gods might
exist.
--
Please direct all replies to anrwlias AT hotmail.com | Siste viator
*-----------*------------------*-----------------------*------------*
Christian Fundamentalism: The doctrine that there is an absolutely
powerful, infinitely knowledgeable, universe spanning entity that is
deeply and personally concerned about my sex life.
*-----------*------------------*-----------------------*------------*
http://www.wco.com/~anrwlias
Mickey
>> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>> question.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Because the god-thingy isn't necessary.
That wopuld make him a very small god indeed. I wonder when he'll turn
into a little turtle.
>
>-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
>http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Mickey (Michelle Malkin) BAAWA knight
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
send e-mail to:moc.gnirpsdnim@7bniklam
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Mickey
>On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:32:55 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>
>[>>On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 05:05:14 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
>[>>
>[>>[>These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>[>>[>theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>[>>[>from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>[>>[>questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>[>>[>message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>[>>[>question.
>
>[>>[>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
>
>[>>[it seems to be a silly question]
>
>[>Well, it was asked by a theist.
>
>Ah, that explains the silly question, Thank you... :)
>
>Regards,
>Stoney
It's also gotten more responses than any other question.
Puck Greenman
>
>#62. Why are you an atheist?
>
Because my childhood indoctrination didn't work?
I probably should add to that, that as the whole village went through
the same rituals, of church, sunday school, school prayers, evening
bible classes, etc, etc, my lack of belief went unnoticed, by
everybody, me as well.
When asked religious questions, what I believed, etc, I always gave
the expected, unthinking, answer, because I had been taught that that
was the right answer, it never occured to me, that the rest of my
peers actualy believed it all.
I dont think that I ever thought about believing it, it was like my
multiplication tables, just something else that I had to learn, it
was not for quetioning, just for learning.
I enjoyed it, I won prizes, for attendance, for learning hymns,
for bible knowlage, and a few other things;
I was good at it, I just never realised that it was supposed to be
real.
Being told at 14, that I was a heathen and an atheist, came as a bit
of a shock, aside that is, that I had no idea what an atheist was.
Other atheists have said that they admired my ability to break free
from it all, but the fact is, I didn't break free, I was chucked out,
did everything that I could, to try and get back in:
I ask you, who wants to be the only nigger at a KKK revival.
That isn't intended as racist, please don't take it that way.
Eventualy you realise that that is who you are.
So I suppose that the realy honest answer is:
I don't know why I am an atheist, I must have been born this way.
#################################################
# #
# The spelling, like any opinion stated here #
# #
# is purely my own. #
# #
# Puck #162 #
# #
# Headers are forged, to reach , use : #
# #
# ICQ 15096558 #
# #
#################################################
.
Puck Greenman
wrote:
>
>
>Mickey wrote:
>
>> These questions are to be answered only by atheists/agnostics. If a
>> theist wants to answer any of these questions, please remove the aa
>> from the beginning of the tread title to form a new thread. New
>> questions are welcome from anyone. Today's question comes from a
>> message sent to the newsgroup by a theist. So does next week's
>> question.
>>
>> #62. Why are you an atheist?
>>
>
>When my IQ hit 165, being smart fit my brain easier than being Christian.
>
>>
Buy that man a bigger hat! (:-)
Keith Brannen
>
> On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 00:11:19 -0500, Keith Brannen
> <kbra...@execulinkREMOVE.com> in alt.atheism wrote:
>
> >Mickey wrote:
> >>
<snip>
> >>
> >> #62. Why are you an atheist?
> >>
> >
> >It can all be summed up like this:
> >Fortunately, at an early age, I learned the difference
> >between reality and fantasy/wishful thinking.
>
> The other day when listening to Christian radio (I know), a program
> called Family Life Today instructed parents how to ensure that their
> toddlers understood the difference between fantasy, like Red Riding
> Hood, and truth, like Noah's Ark. These same people bemoan the lack
> of critical thinking in the present younger generation and blame it on
> the lack of prayer in schools.
>
> I am an atheist because it is the only rational position I can hold.
> I can not believe the unbelievable, grovel to the nonexistent, nor
> feel love from a myth.
>
Critical thinking Xians <?????>
Critical thinking Xians <== push>
Critical thinking Xians <== extremely hard push>
<lets go...>
Critical thinking Xians
Sorry, can't seem to get those three words to
stay together :-)
Yes, I have heard the same think from Fundies
about Santa Claus, don't want to perpetuate myths
(nearly choked when I heard that one, I must say).
I'd rather have a kid believe in Santa Claus (if
you're bad, a lump of coal, try again next year)
than a psycho god (kills at a whim, sends people
to hell for eternal torture). Fewer nightmares
or psychological damage, I would think.
--
Keith Brannen
#713
(Remove REMOVE to reply.)
Chris Nelson
Bud wrote in message <01be0f44$5ed28400$3530...@bwagner.ionet.net>...
>Just before my 8th grade class finished up our last day of class, my
>Lutheran grade school principal made a special point to lecture to us about
>the evils of taking any science-related subjects in either high school or
>college. We were told that science was the work of the devil. Prehaps he
>was right because it opened my eyes about many of the so-called "truths"
>of the Bible. No wonder God's biggest fear was that man should eat of the
>tree of knowledge.
Wow, this all comes as a complete shock to me. Most of the members of my
extended family are Lutheran, and they all (with the exception of a fundie
uncle) all accept evolution as fact. I've always considered Lutherans to be
quite level-headed when it comes to non-religious subjects. I even went to
a Lutheran college (though I was and am an atheist...I went for its
excellent math program), and most people I met there accepted evolution as
fact. My biology professor there even scoffed at Creationism, saying, "This
is a *science* class. If you want to learn about creation, take a religion
class." By the way, I met quite a few atheists at that Lutheral college.
Chris Nelson
stoney
[>sto...@stoney.net (stoney) wrote:
[>>On Fri, 13 Nov 1998 02:32:55 GMT, hyp...@B5B7STSW.com (Mickey) wrote:
[snip]
[>>[>>[>#62. Why are you an atheist?
[>>[>> Because I'm not a theist.
[>>[>>[it seems to be a silly question]
[>>[>Well, it was asked by a theist.
[>>Ah, that explains the silly question, Thank you... :)
[>It's also gotten more responses than any other question.
I've replied to the ones that applied....
BTW: I dumped the load of quotes on MRA. He actually answere, which was a
surprise, I thought he had kill-filed me.. :) Of course his 'answers' were as
vapourous as his brain. Shooting fish in a barrel...He does have his amusement
potential though.
Regards,
Stoney
Liz
<kbra...@execulinkREMOVE.com> in alt.atheism wrote:
<snip prior>
>Critical thinking Xians <?????>
>Critical thinking Xians <== push>
>Critical thinking Xians <== extremely hard push>
><lets go...>
>Critical thinking Xians
>
>Sorry, can't seem to get those three words to
>stay together :-)
I hope you weren't caught in the back wash. You could have sustained
severe whiplash.
>Yes, I have heard the same think from Fundies
>about Santa Claus, don't want to perpetuate myths
>(nearly choked when I heard that one, I must say).
I agree. Eventually, in our culture, children find out that Santa is
merely a pleasant myth perpetuated by well-meaning adults. In
contrast, Christian children are encouraged, nay forced, to accept the
not-so-pleasant GodŽ myth as unquestionably real.
>I'd rather have a kid believe in Santa Claus (if
>you're bad, a lump of coal, try again next year)
>than a psycho god (kills at a whim, sends people
>to hell for eternal torture). Fewer nightmares
>or psychological damage, I would think.
This is another reason I am an atheist. I can not imagine putting my
child in a box either real or psychological.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Among life's perpetually charming questions is whether the
truly evil do more harm than the self-righteous and wrong.
-- Jon Margolis
zach
I'm smart. I can handle it.
zach #33 the ultimate nonbeliever
Mickey
I killfiled him several weeks ago. Just killfiled Rick Carroll, too.
He makes just as little sense as he ever did.