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From: David Fritzinger <dfrit...@nospamtome.hotmail.com>
Newsgroups: alt.atheism,talk.atheism,alt.talk.creationism
Subject: Re: Jason Accepts a "Discussion" in Place of Creationist Coward Andrew-a-Blank.
Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:08:48 -0500
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In article <qmj7bkvlouvt$.1vsbxavmy3fky....@40tude.net>,
 "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 09:16:30 -0500, David Fritzinger wrote:
> 
> > In article <jsozqhpkgzh4.1g11nrzq2gcei$....@40tude.net>,
> >  "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > 
> >> On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 07:24:47 -0500, David Fritzinger wrote:
> >> 
> >>> In article <dv9n2rcefsc3.xww1l0e41y0m$....@40tude.net>,
> >>>  "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> 
> >>>> On Fri, 09 Nov 2012 06:51:09 -0500, David Fritzinger wrote:
> >>>> 
> >>>>> In article <1h8yto6uvk2nz$.vgnm9bvzlh18....@40tude.net>,
> >>>>>  "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>> On Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:01:16 -0500, David Fritzinger wrote:
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> In article <12tdlf9l6xftq$.1c47dp9ltxy54$....@40tude.net>,
> >>>>>>>  "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 07 Nov 2012 09:32:06 -0500, David Fritzinger wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> In article <1qcaoaqxodqm3.1g31qn2ipeqf7$....@40tude.net>,
> >>>>>>>>>  "Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, who invented the Stiff Upper Lip, eh?  We don't all sit
> >>>>>>>>>>>> on Oprah's couch to spread out our miserable dirty linen for all
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the world to gloat over.  Nor do we ring up Dr Ruth when our
> >>>>>>>>>>>> marital performance stats go all British on us!  Americans do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Springer, we go to the pub and talk about the weather -- who do
> >>>>>>>>>>>> you think is healthier?
> >>>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>>> Depends on how much beer you drink, and the quality of the beer.
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> Bah.
> >>>>>>>>>> You may drink more beer than we do (78 versus 74 litres per
> >>>>>>>>>> capita annually) but our beer is WAY, WAY, WAHAY batter than
> >>>>>>>>>> yours.  Want proof?  OK, one word: Budweiser.  Not enough?  One
> >>>>>>>>>> more word: Schlitz.  Two more words: Michelob Ultra.  Three more
> >>>>>>>>>> words: Pabst Blue Ribbon.  It is scientifically impossible to
> >>>>>>>>>> chemically formulate let alone drink worse beer than these.
> >>>>>>>>>> Generously speaking, it is probably a superior taste experience
> >>>>>>>>>> to slug down a pint of warm syphilitic armadillo piss strained
> >>>>>>>>>> through a defensive lineup player's post-match socks.  
> >>>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>>> QED, cheers, down the hatch and up your bottoms!
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> Hey, I'm not arguing about the quality of British vs mass market 
> >>>>>>>>> American beer. The latter is horrible. However, the US does have 
> >>>>>>>>> quite 
> >>>>>>>>> a 
> >>>>>>>>> number of microbreweries that make some very presentable beers. 
> >>>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>>> IIRC, Britain had the same problem a number of years ago. In fact, 
> >>>>>>>>> I 
> >>>>>>>>> was 
> >>>>>>>>> living there during the CAMRA (Campaign for Real Ale) days.
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> We have the same phenomenon: even though our pubs are dying off
> >>>>>>>> at an alarming rate, there are now twice as many breweries than
> >>>>>>>> twenty years ago.  However, unless one knows where to go and what
> >>>>>>>> to order, the supply bottleneck remains.  On top of that, we see
> >>>>>>>> the same sort of corporate takeover that bedevils boutique
> >>>>>>>> beermaking in the US: they wait until a small brewery has put in
> >>>>>>>> all the sweat and effort to create a decent beer and, more
> >>>>>>>> importantly for them, a generous dollop of credibility and
> >>>>>>>> reputation, and then they woop in to buy the place and turn it
> >>>>>>>> into a premium niche-appeal moneyspinner.  
> >>>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>>> Sometimes capitalism is not very likeable...
> >>>>>>> 
> >>>>>>> Actually, from what I have seen, there are more and more boutique 
> >>>>>>> breweries in the US. From my time in Hawaii, I saw three or four 
> >>>>>>> local 
> >>>>>>> breweries, and there are multiple ones on the east coast. Just find 
> >>>>>>> the 
> >>>>>>> right liquor store, or the right bar (our word for pub), and you will 
> >>>>>>> see multiple beers on tap.
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> That's always the most interesting part, for me: some beers will
> >>>>>> be shite, some will be interesting experiments that may or may
> >>>>>> not come of, and some will be worth the trip all by themselves.
> >>>>>> It's boring to always see, hear, smoke, eat or drink the same,
> >>>>>> however delicious.  Variety is the spice of life, and to see what
> >>>>>> an inspired young brewer can come up with is *interesting*.  
> >>>>>> 
> >>>>>> Ditto winemakers...
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> I agree wholeheartedly. I don't drink as much beer as I used to, but do 
> >>>>> enjoy wine, and like trying different wines when I have the chance.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Drinking "much beer" is a young man's foolish game.  When I hit
> >>>> 35 or thereabouts, I realised that quality matters more than
> >>>> quantity.  Six ounces of three year old artisan cheddar are
> >>>> vastly preferable to a six-pound supermarket brich of generic
> >>>> "cheddar".  Two pints of well-crafted real ale are rather tastier
> >>>> and far superior than two gallons of donkey piss.  It's really
> >>>> why I stopped smoking cigarettes and switched to cigars: two
> >>>> packets of mass-produced drug are rather less worth the money
> >>>> than one handmade well-aged Cuban cigar.  
> >>> 
> >>> I agree with you on all but the cigar bit. I find tobacco to be 
> >>> repellant to me. That it is most unhealthy only confirms my opinion. 
> >> 
> >> Everything is unhealthy in its own fashion and when consumed in
> >> excess or in the wrong way.  For instance, I am very wary of
> >> organically grown vegetables because of the significantly higher
> >> risk of e.coli and salmonella (shit happens when you use organic
> >> fertiliser (1)).  Also, I try to avoid the combination of alcohol
> >> and tobacco, since alcohol is as big a risk factor for heart
> >> disease and cancers as tobacco, and in combination acts as a
> >> catalyst raising the risk by orders of magnitude.
> > 
> > You've got a point about organic food. However, one needs to balance the 
> > damage done by pesticides, etc (and especially antibiotics fed to cattle 
> > and pigs) with the possibility of infection from E. coli. 
> 
> I didn't say that I buy any old meat and veg off any old
> supermarket shelf.  I do tak care what I buy, and if at all
> possible will buy directly from the farmer.  There's one
> farmer-turned-butcher where I have been buying my Christmas geese
> (last year's was called Bertha, if you must know) for twenty
> years or so (plus all sorts of other meats): he only slaughters
> and sells animals from local farmers so he knows exactly what he
> gets: free-range grass-fed calves and lambs, for instance.  Then
> there's the City investment banker-turned-pig farmer who
> specialises in slow-growth free-range rare breeds: his pigs take
> years rather than months to grow, but oh my, is that bacon ever
> worth the wait!

We don't really know any local farmers, and that sort of farmer is not 
common in NJ, I am afraid. 
> 
> 
> >> 
> >> Certainly, my cigars have less of an impact on my lifestyle and
> >> mental faculties than many other pleasures.  Smoking a stogie
> >> will not send me into a feeding frenzy as it would with a doobie,
> >> and it does not impair my ability to work, operate heavy
> >> machinery or complex gadgets like a telephone, or indeed perform
> >> in bed as alcohol might.  
> > 
> > I have to disagree with you on this. Nicotine is a very potent 
> > carcinogen, and it is best avoided under all circumstances. 
> 
> Bad thinking, there: nicotine by itself is not a carcinogen --
> that's the job of the tar, polyaromatic hydrocarbons and all the
> other chemicals when combusted.  If it were, the FDA would never
> have approved it for use in cessation aids.  
> 
My bad. However, smoking cigars gives you the whole cocktail. If you 
don't inhale, you've still got to worry about throat or mouth cancer. 
Besides, and this is a personal opinion, I find cigars to really smell 
awful. Pipes less so. 
> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Wine is especially good in this regard, I find, because there is
> >>>> a whole lifestyle approach associated with it.  Wine encourages
> >>>> moderation, enjoyment, conviviality.  It complements all manner
> >>>> of other pastimes like music or good food.  Not to mention that
> >>>> one tends to meet a rather better class of people on a wine tour
> >>>> than on a pub crawl....
> >>> 
> >>> That is so, but boy, I had some good times on my various pub crawls when 
> >>> I lived in England.
> >> 
> >> So have I, but it does tend to be hard on liver, memory and your
> >> chances of chatting up local birds, don't you find?
> > 
> > Of course. I don't recommend doing it all the time, or even somewhat 
> > regularly. And, now that I am no longer the youngster I was when I lived 
> > in Bristol, over drinking is probably best avoided. 
> 
> Unless you're knee-deep in your midlife crisis, in which case
> over-indulgence is probably unavoidable...
> :-)
> 
> 
> >> 
> >> BTW, a fun pub crawl if and when you happen to find your good
> >> self back in Blighty is the Donnington Run.  The Donnington
> >> Brewery is located in the Cotswolds -- quite possibly England's
> >> most picturesque part -- and is distributed in only 15 pubs.  The
> >> challenge is to visit all 15 pubs in one day.
> >> 
> >> http://donningtonbrewery.net/
> >> 
> >> (1) pun intended.
> > 
> > First, while I found the Cotwolds to be very picturesque, I preferred 
> > the Lake District, which I found to be one of the prettiest places I 
> > have seen anywhere. Regarding pub crawls, my best (worst?) was when 
> > Courage had a thing going where you had to visit a certain number of 
> > pubs in the Bristol area and drink a pint to get a book stamped. When 
> > one got stamps from all the books, they got a Courage sweat shirt. I 
> > believe a group of friends and I managed something like 7 or 8 in one 
> > day. Wouldn't want to try more than that.
> 
> Must have been in the days of yore when one had to do these
> things the hard way instead of ordering a sweatshirt off the
> interweb ...
> :-)

No, man, it was the sport of it, trying a whole group of pubs I never 
would have gone to before. 
> 
> The Lake District is beautiful alright, but the villages (and
> hence the pubs) are too far apart for my taste.  Some guide book
> even had the gall to suggest I *walk* through the landscape!

Perhaps so, but I found it to be far prettier than the Cotswolds, though 
they were nice as well.