What is out there after death?
00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu
how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
simply because I believe in afterlife)
Okay! How about this...
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Ray Ingles
[deletions]
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
>
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
I hope you won't be too surprised that people have asked this question
before. Here is my response to this sort of question:
I'm walking down the street, minding my own business, when this guy walks
up and says, "Excuse me? Mr. Ingles? I understand that you've been meaning
to meet me. Well, by way of introduction..." and he snaps his fingers.
Suddenly, everything gets blurry. I take off my glasses. "Yes, that's
right. You now have 20/15 vision without glasses. You've said before that
if someone could do this, you'd give them your attention for a few hours,
as they explained what was up. Well, do you have a few hours to spare?"
"Uhh, well, uh... sure. Um, excuse me, I've never seen a miracle before."
"No matter. Come, let's sit down over here. Now, about this 'free will'
thing..."
Now, assuming that the answers he gave were clear, cogent, and believable,
he would have a convert!
(Note that the gender of the emissary is unimportant. Actually, a cute
female might even be *more* of a selling point. :-> )
Nothing in this is beyond the power of any deity *I've* heard of. And if
they're interested in my belief, this is a guaranteed conversion. So,
the ball is in It's court...
Sincerely,
Ray Ingles ing...@engin.umich.edu
"An apple every eight hours keeps three doctors away." - B. Kliban
Bryan M. Cristina
In a previous article, 00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () says:
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Would I die for a cause worthy.. well, I doubt there's any cause that's
worthy. Why? Well.. when you die, that's it. Why blow that? I mean, no
real matter, you won't know when you're dead, you're just going to be dead,
but none the less.. no reason to waste what you've got here.
>
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
A lot more than you've got to offer.
--
Power is the morality of men who stand out from the rest...
...and it is also mine.
--Ludwig Van Beethoven
Tracker
Bryan M. Cristina
In a previous article, ing...@engin.umich.edu (Ray Ingles) says:
>
> Now, assuming that the answers he gave were clear, cogent, and believable,
>he would have a convert!
> (Note that the gender of the emissary is unimportant. Actually, a cute
>female might even be *more* of a selling point. :-> )
>
> Nothing in this is beyond the power of any deity *I've* heard of. And if
>they're interested in my belief, this is a guaranteed conversion. So,
>the ball is in It's court...
I guess I didn't say enough before, wasn't thinking too much.. Duh :)
Well, I'll expand on your idea there.. If they're all so powerful or he
is, or whomever.. they should easily do one simple thing to make people
convert. Why not? I mean, GOD should have enough time in his day to make
one public vision and say "Look, I AM real, believe in me." Wow, is that
so much to ask? Hey, if I saw that, I'd be a believin'. I didn't think
one of my friends had enough competence to juggle, but when he showed me, I
believed. Wow, if that's all it would take to get some people to convert,
then He should do it. If he doesn't, well, you either have one lazy god,
or none at all.. which is it?
Fulk Nerra
<00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu> wrote:
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself?
It's a vexing thing because no one truly knows anything about it, but as
I cannot know myself until I reach it, I see no reason to fret overly about
it.
Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy?
Certainly.
Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
>
I am still perfectly able to say that killing another human being is
morally wrong. Evidence shows me that, at the least, I would be
depriving them of their consciousness in this realm, and if this is
the only existence they have, then I am depriving them of something
I feel they are fundamentally entitled to as much as myself. Others
on this newsgroup can go so far to extend this to animals.
>
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Proof.
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
I have no difficulty believing in the Dallas Cowboys. They exist.
I have no difficulty believing in Rush Limbaugh. He exists. Unfortunately.
I have no difficulty believing in FDR. He existed.
I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy. I have no proof.
I don't believe in Santa Claus. I have no proof.
I don't believe in God. I have no proof.
>
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
keep going! almost there!
--heretic
"Monogamy leaves a lot to be desired."
Michael Cummings
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
EVIDENCE.
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
EVIDENCE.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Somehow I doubt that. I case you are, let me give an example of
evidence:
God showing his face to me, along with a couple miracles. (Don't tell me
this is unreasonable . He didn't have a problem doing this in the Bible.)
You might say I'm asking for too much, since belief in God is a matter of
faith. Yet christians are always trying to show me evidence. They point
to diseases as plagues sent by God, they show us the Bible, they say prayer
works, etc. Which is it going to be? Faith, or proof? And if it's proof,
why is the evidence of such low quality?
--
Michael Cummings NX7E cumm...@u.washington.edu
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at
them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." - Jack Handey
Stryder
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
I would think that it would be the other way around, that one would be
more likely to kill someone else if he/she thought there was an afterlife
waiting for that person.
You mouth questions like you're a tape recorder. You have a mind, damn
it. Use it.
And yes, I think I would die for a cause I deem worthy. Of course, none
of us can say for sure, and they certainly can't say after the fact,
regardless of what you say about an afterlife.
Belief in God (tm) is by no means a guarantee that a person is moral.
Like the old joke goes,
How do you get a nun pregnant? Dress her up as a choir boy.
That may seem like a "naughty" joke to you, but it's implications are
deadly, deadly serious.
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
If you set aside your assumptions about atheists and take the time to
follow some of the threads in this news group (and read the FAQ), you
will be surprised at what you read.
Maybe not, though. A lot of believers are amazingly resistant to reality.
________________________________________________________________________
| | |
| "Woods and crags know how to keep a | |
| dignified silence with you." | Stryder |
| | |
| Nietzsche, _Thus Spoke Zarathustra_ | |
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dennis Francis Heffernan
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy?
Yes.
>Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Yes. Every day scores of living creatures die so that I can
continue to live.
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Physical manifestation of a being with "godlike" powers. I'd be
happy to call such a being a god if it wanted to be called that, but....
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
...since such a being could easily fake any evidence needed, I
could never believe it was any particular god described by a human religion.
--
Dennis Francis Heffernan dfra...@io.com
Email to heff...@icarus.montclair.edu, please.
Xian the Desk Lizard
~Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
~how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
~a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
~there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
~simply because I believe in afterlife)
Death is a positive thing. It provides a conclusion to life, a point to
stop. Oblivion is not to be feared. I would die for a cause I deemed
worthy, yes, but I am never likely to deem a cause more worthy than my
own life, and I think dying for my life is a contradiction here... I do
my best not to kill anything anyway, given that I enjoy meat, and
dislike flies and gnats. I believe that life is significant, so if you
have any achievements to make, make them now.
~Okay! How about this...
~WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Nothing. If a God came along and proved himself, I would spurn him.
Especially your god. I haven't got time for that kind of hassle!
~WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Believe in God? Well, if He proved himself I'd have little choice. But
if he wanted me to trust him for my salvation, I would suggest where he
could shove it.
~Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Ryan: don't bother, if you open your mind there's every chance you'll
lose your faith, and I get the feeling you know that and don't want to
risk it.
Xian.
Bill Stuart
In a previous article, 00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () says:
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
I would die for someone else. That is actually the way i would
like to die. I have no problems with killing insects. I do not like
killing animals and i do not approve of killing humans. Sometimes i talk
tough and say "let's burn down churches", but i do not think i could kill
a person.
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
If christians would stop being so irritating.
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
A miracle. Something like waking up one morning and finding that i
am now a perfectly capable male or female person, able to have kids and
everything, and not what i am currently.
I did beleive, and religion made me more miserable than anything i
could possibly imagine.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
You opened it too far! Some fell out! :)
Frank Stuart
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Most atheists don't believe in an afterlife. I'm sure there are some who
are uncertain or who do.
I can easily imagine situations where I would be willing to risk or even give
my life. To not do so, I would live an unproductive, shame-filled life that
wouldn't (for me) be worth living anyway. I can also envision situations
where killing others, even innocents, would be necessary for the greater good.
To not do so would be to condemn others to death. I don't mean to say that
these choices are easy, and thankfully, they don't come up very often.
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
A shred of evidence.
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Compelling evidence.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Stick around. Try not to blindly accept your preconceived notions and think
for yourself. If it turns out your original ideas are true, surely they can
stand up to examination.
Frank Stuart | Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you ex-
fst...@eng.auburn.edu | pect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.
CR TURVEY
00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu wrote:
: Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
: how do you feel about death in itself?
: Would any of you die for a cause you deam worthy?
Yes.
: Would any of you kill anything, knowing that there is nothing left for
the person after death? (Not saying I would simply because I believe in
afterlife)
Yes. Hello Hitler. Hello Stalin.
: Okay! How about this...
[drum roll]
: WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
: WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
One and the same. To change my mind I would have to know that
he exists. An end to all pain, suffering, illness, and harm on
this planet. He's omnipotent. Shouldn't be too hard a thing to do.
: Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Cheers
Colin
David O Hunt
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
A flat plane tesselated with regular octagons. Rug patterns would
do nicely, thank you.
David Hunt, PhD Grad. Slave | My mind is my own. So are | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering | these ideas and opinions! | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>> | Jewish homeland!
============ An anagram of 'Jesus Christ' is 'Sir, such jest'! ============
When in doubt, be ruthless. -- The Grand Negis
Leif Magnar Kj|nn|y
>how do you feel about death in itself?
Don't really know. Haven't tried it yet. I've lost a few (elderly)
relatives that were dear to me, and experienced grief etc., and I
really do believe that those people are now gone. Someday I, too,
will be gone. There's nothing I can do to prevent this, the best I
can try for is delaying the inevitable. I will do my best to delay
the inevitable as long as I still feel that life is worth it -- which
will probably be for about another half-century or more (I'm 21).
> Would any of you die for a cause you deam worthy?
Well, of course anyone would die for a cause he deemed worthy to die
for, wouldn't he? I guess the real question is whether there would
be any causes I'd deem worthy; and I'd like to think there are some
such causes. Examples: Saving the life of another person (or several
persons) -- in particular someone I knew or who was genetically
related to me, but most people would do in a pinch.
> Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Well, my immune system kills microbes all the time, and I sometimes
swat a fly, and I do eat meat (and don't feel bad about it, either).
Haven't killed any humans (or even primates), though; and I don't
approve of killing humans for any cause except in defense (wether
defense of self or of someone else who needs help). Nor do I approve
of killing animals for fun, only for food and other useful resources.
But if someone did threaten my life or the life of someone else I
cared about, I would not hesitate to use force -- even unto the point
of permanently damaging or killing that someone. In addition, there
are some people I don't think I'd lose too much sleep over killing;
for instance, if I was driving along the road and some neo-Nazi
skinhead walked out in front of my car, I don't know for sure if
I'd step on the brake pedal or "mistakenly step on the wrong pedal".
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Same as for just about any other atheist: Some measure of evidence,
better than anything I've seen so far (and I've seen quite a bit of
purported "evidence" about this matter.)
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
More evidence.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Are you, really?
--
Leif Kj{\o}nn{\o}y (lei...@kari.fm.unit.no)
GS/M -d+(-) -p+(-) c++ l+ u e+ m---(*) s++/++ n+(--) h f+ g++(-) w+ t- r++ y?
Mr. Bungle says: "I will kill for isolation, sacrifice the energy,
to enjoy the breath of silence when the blood comes naturally."
Terence M. Rokop
> Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
> how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
> a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
Yes, there are causes for which I would be willing to die.
> there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
> simply because I believe in afterlife)
I doubt I could ever kill anyone, except perhaps to keep him from
killing someone else.
> Okay! How about this...
> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Well, I tried the international atheists' phone experiment a couple
months ago. I had my phone at home unplugged. If someone had managed
to call me on an unplugged phone, I would have to consider seriously
that said individual might be a "deity." My family reports, however,
that the unplugged phone did not ring. Of course, any deity wishing to
convince me of its existence is welcome to show up at my dorm and
demonstrate inexplicable powers.
Terry
arnold v. lesikar
> how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
> a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
> there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
> simply because I believe in afterlife)
>
Here is a Zen master's advice:
"In birth there is nothing but birth and in death there is nothing but
death. Accordingly, when birth comes, face and actualize birth, and when
death comes, face and actualize death. Do not avoid them or desire them."
- Eihei Dogen
from the Shobogenzo
>
> Okay! How about this...
>
> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Any being that appeared on my door step and performed miracles would be
regarded as a strange being of nature. That he showed up on my door step
would prove him to be a natural being. That he performed miracles shows
merely a command of nature. We have that to some extent now. Remember that
Arthur C. Clarke said that high technology always looks like magic to those
who are not used to living at the level of that technology. I doubt that
there would be any act that this being performed that could not be imagined
to be a technological feat. Heck, there are even serious papers on _time
travel_ appearing in physics journals these days!
So walking on water won't do it, instantaneous healing won't do it, and I
wouldn't even be convinced by a big face appearing in the middle of the sky
with a loud voice shouting and claiming to be God. There are always
alternative explanations.....
The important point here is that a genuine God cannot be a creature of this
world. As creator he must be _beyond_ existence. Any God that appears in
this world, however large and powerful he may appear to in his appearance
represent something far smaller and less powerful than the creator of the
cosmos. Now indeed he might be a projection or an appendage of the creator,
but again you'd have to take that on faith. Whatever appears inside the
universe is part of the universe and cannot in itself represent the God
responsible for the existence of the universe. So even the appearance of
the big face in the sky and angel voices singing proves nothing.
Anyone aware of the size of the universe would wonder as well why the
creator would so demean his dignity as to do magic tricks to impress the
inhabitants of this negligible planet.
> WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
>
I hope that you have realized that the question above does not make sense.
The verb "believe" requires an object. One cannot just believe; one must
believe _something_. Probably this question is meant to ask for the
conditions for belief in the existence of some kind of big G god or
another. Well here's a nice quote from a believer, Father Thomas Hopko, an
Eastern Orthodox Priest and theologian and seminary teacher:
____
If someone asks you, "Does God exist?" you can say, "Well if you mean, 'Is
there emptiness, or God, or ultimate reality?' the answer is 'Yes.' But if
you mean, 'Does God exist like everything else exists?' he does not exist."
And in fat you had better say that he does not not-exist and he does not
even not not-not-exist....
____
I am sure that Father Hopko would agree with me that you blaspheme when you
assert the existence with too little thought as to what you are really
saying,
"for Thou, O God are ineffable, inconceivable, invisible, incomprehensible,
ever-existing, and eternally the same." (Father Hopko attributes the quote
to the golden tongued Saint John Chrysostom).
Now there is a puzzlement - what did Saint John mean by "ever-existing?"
> Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
If you succeed in prying open your mind, be careful your brains don't fall
out! :)
sincerely,
arn
les...@tigger.stcloud.msus.edu
---
Although, as from a prison walled with hate,
each from his own self labors to be free,
the world yet holds a wonder, and how great!
ALL LIFE IS LIVED: now this comes home to me.
But who, then, lives it?
- Rainer Maria Rilke
from the Book of Hours
Dewey Henize
Death sounds like a real bummer. Haven't got any reputable reports except
bad movies and books of superstition that aren't verifiable. Seems like
it would be the period to the sentence though.
C'mon Ryan, think about what you're posting. By definition, if we deem it
worthy we'd die for it. I think you'll find a lot of variation regarding
what's worthy though (kinda like you would from theists, probably).
Would I kill? Sure would, given certain circumstances.
Before I get to the all caps parts, aren't you really implying that your
ethical foundation appears to you to be based in your belief in God? If
so, I'll save you some time. This atheist does have an ethical foundation,
but it isn't based on God but rather on lots of searching and studying
and questioning on my own. Like many others I've been able to stand on`
the shoulders of lots of folks who've wrestled with many of the same
ethical issues themselves, and reading how they've worked things our has
helped me come to my own decisions. I also know there are things that
I'm not sure of yet for myself.
BTW, notice all the 'I's up there? That's because the only think most
atheists share is a lack of belief in a God. After that it's pretty much
everyone for themselves as far as what is a belief.
Back to your all caps shouting - Very simple for me. Clean up this total
disaster of a world, get some reasonable care and hope to the majority
of the population of the planet, and take all the people who rip off others
and otherwise attempt to oppress humans in the name of God to the kind
of Hell the claim is coming - and keep it televised. Or, if there's a
God all he/she/it has to do is read my mind/soul/atman/blither and what
is needed will be obvious.
Ok? Anything non-trite to contribute now?
Dew
--
Dewey Henize Sys/Net admin RISC hardware (512) 891-8637 pager 928-7447 x 9637
Kelley Miller
In a previous article, 00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu () says:
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself? Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
The first question is impossible to answer. An individual can't know with any
certainty until such a situation arises (I know, many say they would risk
death to save a loved on in peril, but I submit that there are many times
this simply isn't the case. Our self-preservation subrouteen sometimes
overides.)
As to the second question, no, I would not kill, if I could avoid it, simply
because I am truly moral. I don't allow the threat of prison or Hell to
enforce my morality, but my OWN sence of what is right and correct.
Can you say the same?
>
>
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Clear, consise, tangible and irrefutable evidence, which, to this point,
theists have been totally unable to supply.
>
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
>
--
*.....your Friendly Neighborhood Atheist /\/\ Annoy Rush Limbaugh *
* ae...@yfn.ysu.edu/Kelley L. Miller / /__\ Think for yourself *
*---------------------------------------/____\--------------------------*
*Support your local trucker--remember, if you got it, a truck brought it*
James R. McGowan
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
CLARKE'S LAW: Sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic.
Answer to your question: Since I don't know if gODD or space aliens
are behind whatever miracle might occur, my answer is - NOTHING would
make me believe.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Keep trying. You've got a ways to go yet.
Quowong P. Liu
>how do you feel about death in itself?
Death and taxes...
> Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy?
Tautologically, yes. (I assume that "deam worthy" means "deem
worthy of dying for".)
> Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Myths of afterlives don't have any bearing on whether I would
or would not kill something or someone.
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
If there is a god that wants me to believe that it exists, it
ought to have to ability to cause me to. Evidently there isn't.
--
qp...@princeton.edu Standard opinion: Opinions are delta-correlated.
Hsien-Chung Woo
>how do you feel about death in itself?
I dont know what will happen after death, my guess is I decomposed. Death
is part of our life, there is no difference between birth, grow up and
death, just part of the process. I dont feel bad about having to die and
I dont feel good.
>Would any of you die for a cause you deam worthy?
I would.
>Would any of you kill anything, knowing that there is nothing left for
>the person after death? (Not saying I would simply because I believe
>in afterlife)
Knowing that there is nothing left for a person after death, I will consider
taking any life as a serious and irrevisiable procedure. That is why I dont
support captial punishment, but on the other hand, if I come to a point that
I have to depend humanity by fighting and I have to kill, I will.
>
>
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
Reason and Evidence.
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
I dont believe in thinks, I need enough reason and evidence to be
convinced that something is true.
>
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Cheers
Hsien
Matt McIrvin
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
Lengthy psychological torture and brainwashing might well do the trick.
--
Matt 01234567 <-- Indent-o-Meter (mod 8)
McIrvin ^ Harnessing tab damage for humanity!
Keith Justified And Ancient Cochran
Who said atheists don't believe in some sort of afterlife? I know
a great many atheists who believe in reincarnation.
>then how do you feel about death in itself?
You live, you die, you become plant food. What's the big deal?
>Would any of you die for a cause you deam worthy?
Been there. Done that.
>Would any of you kill anything,
Depends on the circumstances. It's not a good idea to get me mad
at you.
>knowing tha
>there is nothing left for the person after death?
Whoever said there's nothing after death?
>(Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
Why not?
>Okay! How about this...
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
WELL MAYBE IF YOU STOP SHOUTING I'LL ANSWER YOU!
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
LESS RELIGIOUS FUNDIES WHO COME INTO ALT.ATHEISM SHOUTING THAT WE'RE
ALL GOING TO BURN IN HELL!
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Sure you are.
--
=kcoc...@nyx.cs.du.edu | B(0-4) c- d- e++ f- g++ k(+) m r(-) s++(+) t | TSAKC=
=My thoughts, my posts, my ideas, my responsibility, my beer, my pizza. OK???=
="Please do not ask ridiculous questions." -- Darius Lecointe, talk.origins. =
Dave Jones
Jay=Prince%En...@bangate.compaq.com
>00rl...@leo.bsuvc.bsu.edu writes:
>
>>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
>
>Lengthy psychological torture and brainwashing might well do the trick.
You mean like having your emotions and doubts manipulated every sunday for
a couple of years? That might do the trick!
(But, luckily, I made the saving throw.)
Jay
Mike McAngus
>Okay, because you athiests believe there is no God, nor afterlife, then
>how do you feel about death in itself?
I "feel" nothing. Why? Should I?
Maybe you really want to know what my opinion is about death. I think
death is like birth, but in the other direction.
> Would any of you die for
>a cause you deam worthy?
Yes. Do you believe me?
> Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
If necessary, yes, I would try.
>Okay! How about this...
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
You're probably getting tired of this answer: EVIDENCE, EVIDENCE,
EVIDENCE. I like Ray Ingles' idea of evidence, though I would prefer to
have perfect recall.
>Ryan (Still trying to open my mind)
Maybe this will help; why do you believe?
--
Cheers,
Mike (please be patient, my newsfeed is slow) McAngus
m...@mouse.cmhnet.org
I pledge allegiance to my flag and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with
liberty and justice for all.
- Original Pledge of Allegiance (1892)
Michael Sandy
>a cause you deam worthy? Would any of you kill anything, knowing that
>there is nothing left for the person after death? (Not saying I would
>simply because I believe in afterlife)
>
>
>
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO CHANGE YOUR MIND ABOUT GOD?
>WHAT WOULD IT TAKE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE?
>
Let's see:
If you conducted brain-surgery on me, gave me amnesia and regressed
my mind to that of a child, and they put me on a reward punishment
cycle with a thought monitoring device I'd 'believe'.
Roughly. I'd also believe a demonstration. 'Let there be light!'
At that point I'd still only believe that it was possible for someone
or something to Create _a_ universe. A bit of a quibble. The requirements
are rather high, don't you see. As to life after death, well, that is
only somewhere between two hundred and twenty thousand years from *now*
depending on the computer theorist you talk to.
Are you saying that it is okay to kill things only because they have
an immortal existence we can't touch? Was the suffering of the unfree
peoples of the previously Soviet Bloc countries 'justified' by their
eventual liberation? Is our suffering on this Earth deleted from memory
when we die?
Is there any cause I'd die for, knowing that that is the end? Of
course? How not? There is more that I care about than just this
fleshly shell. I don't play a game to win, but to learn and teach how
it is played. Why care that I will feel eternal pleasure in Heaven?
I need none of my hard earned knowledge to cope with either eternal
pleasure or eternal pain.
Since we're going to bash our way back into paradise on our own in another
few centuries what care I for the fickle promises of an archaic deity?
--
Michael Sandy
meh...@agora.rain.com
"The truly paranoid are clever enough to not _act_ paranoid."
"When everyone _is_ out to get to you, being paranoid isn't going to help."
Michael Sandy
to die. None of us is indispensible to the existence of the world, or
morality.
As to a cause I'd be willing to die for, I am perfectly willing to die of
old age for a whole host of causes. :+) As to those causes where I am
willing to dramaticly decrease my probable lifespan, my selfishness
extends beyond myself. My genetic construction is selfish, compelling
to choose options which recreate themselves. I want my intellectual
accomplishments, such as they are, to last and influence other people,
and so preserve myself.
However, the interests of my body are _prior_ to all these, because
my experience of them is more definite as is my control. It is only when
faced with the realization that I am going to die anyway that any of these
get a high value.
The really sad thing about death is that there will always be a story
I won't get to read the ending of. I won't get to see 'Next Week's Episode'.
I don't want some well meaning paternal figure saying to me, 'Don't worry,
if you are a good boy you will get to see _all_ of those movies in Heaven.'
I don't want that sort of anxiety, that pressure.