Eternal torment

[Galen Hekhuis]

Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

[hypatiab7]

On Monday, October 29, 2012 5:49:42 PM UTC-4, Galen Hekhuis wrote:
> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>
> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

And it's very human. Only a vengeful primitive human mind would conceive of
such a thing.

[james g. keegan jr.]

In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,

Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

isn't that the christian ideal?

[•R.Measures]

In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>, "james g.

*** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th century.
It apparently increased church attendance. The only enhancement in
modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which was apparently
about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

[duke]

On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

The dukester, American - American
********************************************
A vote for obama is a vote for the end of
democracy in America as we know it. Let the
rolling thunder guide your decision at the
ballot box to put an end to Imperial Obama.
May God bless America.
********************************************

[duke]

rl has trouble with bible dates, thinking Jesus walked this earth in the 5th
century.

[Don Martin]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (�R.Measures) wrote:

>about 300�C hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.

--

aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

Um, no. Who created hell? Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
that's where you go? Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
exist.

--
__ _ | What the scientists have in their briefcases
(_ |_) | is terrifying.
__)|_) | -- Nikita Khrushchev

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to
> do
> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.

Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
psychopath.

--
JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Smiler]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (•R.Measures) wrote:
>
>>In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>, "james
>>g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>> > love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>>
>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>
>>*** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th century.
>>It apparently increased church attendance. The only enhancement in
>>modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which was apparently

>>about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

>
> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.

And furnaces.

--
Smiler,

The godless one. a.a.# 2279

All gods are tailored to order. They're made to

exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[duke]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:

>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>
>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>
>Um, no. Who created hell?

Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
that refuse God.

> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>that's where you go?

YOU do.

> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>exist.

Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".

[duke]

On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>
>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to
>> do
>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>
>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>
>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>psychopath.

Thanks be to God that I chose God.

[Galen Hekhuis]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:03:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>
>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>
>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>
>Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>that refuse God.

I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
*everything*.

>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>that's where you go?
>
>YOU do.
>
>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>exist.
>
>Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".

I don't think I could bear eternal existence of some type while
knowing that others have to endure some kind of eternal torment. I
also have a hard time respecting, much less loving or worshiping, an
entity (Supreme Being, God, whatever) that is portrayed as having
pure, unconditional love but can allow such eternal torture.

[Don Martin]

Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (•R.Measures) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>, "james
>>> g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>
>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th century.
>>> It apparently increased church attendance. The only enhancement in
>>> modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which was apparently
>>> about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>
>> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.
>
> And furnaces.

Those "dark, satanic mills" needed them for their nefarious purposes.

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>
>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>
>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>
> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
> that refuse God.

So, I'm in hell now? Hell's pretty sweet. All my friends are here, there's
beer whenever I want it, nice sunsets, boat rides... why are you guys so down
on Hell?

>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>that's where you go?
>
> YOU do.

Well, since according to you, I'm already there, best decision I've ever made.

>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>exist.
>
> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".

Oh, more than a clue. I've actually attended autopsies and funerals, and read
a lot on what happens to your body after death.

http://fac.utk.edu/

There you can find a lot of detailed information on what's on "the other side".

> But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".

I do.

--
__ _ | Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,
(_ |_) | doesn't go away.
__)|_) | -- Philip K. Dick

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:03:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>
>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>
>>Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>that refuse God.
>
> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
> *everything*.
>
>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>that's where you go?
>>
>>YOU do.
>>
>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>>exist.
>>
>>Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>>But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".
>

> I don't think I could bear eternal existence <snip>

I think *that* is the fundamental point. For a sentient being, *eternity*,
either in heaven or hell, would be the most horrible torture. Imagine, you've
already lived for:

100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Years, and it's just beginning. No matter how many zeros I tack on there, it's
never going to quit, never going to end. If you imagine a googol years for
every subatomic particle in the universe, you haven't even made a scratch in
"eternity".

Why would anyone *want* that?

--
__ _ | Books are lighthouses erected in the great sea of time.
(_ |_) | -- Edwin P. Whipple
__)|_) |

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to
>>> do
>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>
>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>
>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>psychopath.
>
> Thanks be to God that I chose God.

That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.

--
__ _ | Nullius in verba ("Take nobody's word for it")
(_ |_) | -- Motto of the Royal Society
__)|_) |

[The Chief Castrator Of The Jews]

On Oct 29, 5:49 pm, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> love.  Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

So....?

[Malcolm McMahon]

On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 11:45:38 UTC, duke wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (�R.Measures) wrote:
>
>
>
> >In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>, "james g.
>
> >keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>
> >> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> > Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>
> >> > love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> isn't that the christian ideal?
>
> >
>
> >*** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th century.
>
> >It apparently increased church attendance. The only enhancement in
>
> >modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which was apparently
>

> >about 300�C hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

>
>
>
> rl has trouble with bible dates, thinking Jesus walked this earth in the 5th
>
> century.
>

No, Jesus has nothing to do with it. I don't think Jesus, if he existed, believed in hell.

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <7d12989jibjpff2bd...@4ax.com>,

duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
> > duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> >> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
> >>
> >> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything
> >> to
> >> do
> >> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
> >> wish.
> >
> >Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
> >
> >Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
> >psychopath.
>
> Thanks be to God that I chose God.

So which one are you--coward or psychopath?

[Father Haskell]

On Oct 31, 7:03 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> Hell is a state or condition, not a place,
> created by those for those that refuse God.

Hell was invented as an effective way to cow the fearful.

[Smiler]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:45:53 +0000, Don Martin wrote:

> Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (•R.Measures) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>>
>>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which
>>>> was apparently about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>>
>>> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.
>>
>> And furnaces.
>
> Those "dark, satanic mills" needed them for their nefarious purposes.

Blast your irony.

[Father Haskell]

On Oct 29, 5:49 pm, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> love.  Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

The only character worthy of Hell is its creator.

[Smiler]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:

> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>> anything to do
>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>>>> wish.
>>>
>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>
>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>psychopath.
>>
>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>
> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.

I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.

[Father Haskell]

On Oct 30, 7:44 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net>

> wrote:
>
> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> >love.  Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> No, it's not.  It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
> with him, now or ever.  He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

Religion sounds a LOT like codependency.

[Don Martin]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:33:25 +0000, Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:
>
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>>>>> wish.
>>>>
>>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>
>>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>>psychopath.
>>>
>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>
>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.
>
>I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.

One wouldn't know where that thing had BEEN.

[Don Martin]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:30:20 +0000, Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com>
wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:45:53 +0000, Don Martin wrote:
>
>> Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (•R.Measures) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>>>
>>>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell - which
>>>>> was apparently about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>>>
>>>> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.
>>>
>>> And furnaces.
>>
>> Those "dark, satanic mills" needed them for their nefarious purposes.
>
>Blast your irony.

I was steeled for your response.

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism Smiler <Youm...@joeking.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:
>
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>>>>> wish.
>>>>
>>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>
>>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>>psychopath.
>>>
>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>
>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.
>
> I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.

Well, certainly not the brain, anyway.

--
__ _ | When I got my library card, that's when my life began.
(_ |_) | -- Rita Mae Brown.
__)|_) |

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:vdfv88hg9hq512t7c...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (.R.Measures) wrote:
>
>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>>
>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>
>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell -

>> which was apparently about 300�C hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

>
> rl has trouble with bible dates, thinking Jesus walked this earth in
> the 5th century.
>

Apparently you don't know the meaning of "model of Christian Hell".


--
Religions breed hypocrisy and self-righteousness.

Many Christians spend more time looking down on other people than up
towards Christ.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com

> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
> your own expressed wish.
>

We have to meet him before we can decide that.
Your church's version is not very desirable nor makes much sense.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:j212989nb7o4e3ioi...@4ax.com

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>> your own expressed wish.
>>
>> Um, no. Who created hell?
>
> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those
> for those that refuse God.
>

How long have you believed that hell was just a state or condition? Actually
that's true.
But until recently you believed that hell was a place with flames and a
satan.
If its a condition that people create then 'satan' is also a created
concept.
Nice to see you've progressed in your thinking.

>
>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>> that's where you go?
>
> YOU do.
>

Ah, so God no longer judges people. Interesting.
That's not what your church taught long ago.
Finally you're starting contradicting your church on more and more of the
old fundamentals.
Congratulations.

>
>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>> die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you
>> cease to exist.
>
> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the
> other side".
>

Neither do you.

[duke]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:05:54 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:vdfv88hg9hq512t7c...@4ax.com
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (.R.Measures) wrote:
>>
>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>
>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell -

>>> which was apparently about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.

>>
>> rl has trouble with bible dates, thinking Jesus walked this earth in
>> the 5th century.

>Apparently you don't know the meaning of "model of Christian Hell".

You're right. I never heard of it. Why don't you advise something about it?

[duke]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>

wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:03:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>
>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>
>>Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>that refuse God.

>I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>*everything*.

That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.

>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>that's where you go?
>>YOU do.

Wow, no response?

>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>>exist.
>>
>>Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>>But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".

>I don't think I could bear eternal existence of some type while
>knowing that others have to endure some kind of eternal torment.

Yet it's all in each individuals choice. God offers eternal love to all. Man
elects eternal punishment, not God.

> I
>also have a hard time respecting, much less loving or worshiping, an
>entity (Supreme Being, God, whatever) that is portrayed as having
>pure, unconditional love but can allow such eternal torture.

But, but, but it's YOUR choice. And what YOU want, God lets you choose.

[duke]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:27:46 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:

>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>
>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>
>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>> that refuse God.

>So, I'm in hell now? Hell's pretty sweet. All my friends are here, there's
>beer whenever I want it, nice sunsets, boat rides... why are you guys so down
>on Hell?

And then you die. And then you are judged.

>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>that's where you go?
>> YOU do.
>Well, since according to you, I'm already there, best decision I've ever made.

This is your test, not the grade.

>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>>exist.
>>
>> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>
>Oh, more than a clue. I've actually attended autopsies and funerals, and read
>a lot on what happens to your body after death.

Well, the good news is that "from dust you came, to dust you will return">

>http://fac.utk.edu/
>
>There you can find a lot of detailed information on what's on "the other side".
>> But your kind said "no" to God, so you have a lot of friends "there".
>I do.

But which side?

[duke]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:22:49 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:j212989nb7o4e3ioi...@4ax.com
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
>> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>>> your own expressed wish.
>>>
>>> Um, no. Who created hell?
>>
>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those
>> for those that refuse God.

>How long have you believed that hell was just a state or condition? Actually
>that's true.

Why, thank you, aw.

>But until recently you believed that hell was a place with flames and a
>satan. If its a condition that people create then 'satan' is also a created
>concept. Nice to see you've progressed in your thinking.

My position is based on knowledge gained. And we know next to nothing about the
downside - the only reference type being the city dump and the flames consuming
everything.

>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>> that's where you go?

>> YOU do.

>Ah, so God no longer judges people. Interesting.

??? No, this is your test time. I hope you studied hard.

>That's not what your church taught long ago.
>Finally you're starting contradicting your church on more and more of the
>old fundamentals.
>Congratulations.

>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>> die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you
>>> cease to exist.

>> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the
>> other side".
>Neither do you.

But I do have a man who went to one of two sides and came back to talk about it.

[duke]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:

>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to
>>>> do
>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>
>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>
>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>psychopath.
>>
>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>
>That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.

If the want it, they can have it. That's called love. When the body dies, the
indestructible soul moves on.

[duke]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:33:25 +0000, Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:
>
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>>>>> wish.
>>>>
>>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>
>>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>>psychopath.
>>>
>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>
>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.

>I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.

Why? It would be a high quality item to go along with yours not diseased.

[duke]

When I go, I'm taking all knowledge with me.

[duke]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:27:31 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>

wrote:

>In article <7d12989jibjpff2bd...@4ax.com>,
> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>> > duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> >> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>> >>
>> >> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything
>> >> to
>> >> do
>> >> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>> >> wish.
>> >
>> >Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>> >
>> >Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>> >psychopath.
>>
>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>
>So which one are you--coward or psychopath?

Super intelligent.

[duke]

So does eating and sleeping along with breathing and walking.

[duke]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:08:30 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>
>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>> your own expressed wish.

>We have to meet him before we can decide that.

God already knows your decision.

>Your church's version is not very desirable nor makes much sense.

That's your problem, not mine.

[linuxgal]

duke wrote:

> If the want it, they can have it. That's called love. When the body dies, the
> indestructible soul moves on.
>

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead
know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory
of them is forgotten.

Dern that materialist Solomon.

--
What a country! In America, you follow other Tweeters. In Soviet Russia,
Twitter follows YOU

[duke]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 04:12:12 -0700, linuxgal <linu...@cleanposts.com> wrote:

>duke wrote:
>
>> If the want it, they can have it. That's called love. When the body dies, the
>> indestructible soul moves on.

>Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead
>know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory
>of them is forgotten.

>Dern that materialist Solomon.

That's Christianity also.

[ghek...@earthlink.net]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:50:23 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:03:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>>
>>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>
>>>Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>>that refuse God.
>
>>I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>*everything*.
>
>That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.

You said that God created everything. That includes "evolution."
Trace it back through whatever you present and you will find that it
isn't money, or love of money, or Satan (or Satin), but in your belief
God is the root of all evil.

[Steve O]

On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:


>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>> *everything*.
>
> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>

Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?

[duke]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 10:26:20 -0400, ghek...@earthlink.net wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 05:50:23 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 06:03:37 -0500, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>>>
>>>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>>
>>>>Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>>>that refuse God.
>>
>>>I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>*everything*.
>>
>>That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.

>You said that God created everything. That includes "evolution."

It's simpler to say that all things come from God. If you wish to word it
somewhat differently, that's ok.

>Trace it back through whatever you present and you will find that it
>isn't money, or love of money, or Satan (or Satin), but in your belief
>God is the root of all evil.

Belief in a supreme creator is the root of all evil? Interesting when our very
God calls us to love one another as he loves us. If you want to reference a
root of all evil, it's the free will that he gave us, a will in which we can
choose God's way or our way. You see, he wants us to see his love and choose to
turn to him, but if we prefer to do things our way instead of his way, we're
free to do so.

Personally, I'm all in with God's love.

[duke]

We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.

[Father Haskell]

On Nov 1, 7:03 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:36:32 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
>

> <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 30, 7:44 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net>
> >> wrote:
>
> >> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> >> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
> >> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
> >> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>
> >Religion sounds a LOT like codependency.
>
> So does eating and sleeping along with breathing and walking.

None of those involve kissing ass as a way of not
getting eternally tortured.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:plk4989hc31aoa7ab...@4ax.com

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:05:54 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:vdfv88hg9hq512t7c...@4ax.com
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (.R.Measures) wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>>
>>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell -
>>>> which was apparently about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>>
>>> rl has trouble with bible dates, thinking Jesus walked this earth in
>>> the 5th century.
>
>> Apparently you don't know the meaning of "model of Christian Hell".
>
> You're right. I never heard of it. Why don't you advise something
> about it?
>

I know you've never heard of it. What else is new.
I'm not here to educate people about their own religions, just to make them
aware so they start seeking the truth on their own.

Basically religions like the RCC spin things their own way.
Every educated person knows something about the RCC's nefarious activities,
plus their twisting and adding of information about the past to set
themselves up as an earthly power.
If you don't know that much about your religion and don't want to know then
you're totally beyond hope.
If you do ever decide to seek the real truth about your large organised
religion (Jesus disliked organised religions) then read below. Beyond that
I'm not going to bother with you any more.

http://www.soundanalarm.net/PetertheFirstPope.html

http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rc129.htm

http://www.bible.ca/cath-peter=pope.htm

http://www.bible.ca/cath-why-I-left.htm

http://www.stuartwilde.com/2012/10/vatican-pedo-rings/

[Jeanne Douglas]

In article <mjl498tqtg5oddd84...@4ax.com>,

Irrelevant, even if true. A super intelligent person would NOT worship a
genocidal torturing psychopathic monster unless he were either an abject
coward or another psychopath.

So which are you--coward or psychopath?

--
JD

"Osama Bin Laden is dead and GM is alive."--VP Joseph Biden

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:86l498tcfnbkqn3r5...@4ax.com

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:22:49 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:j212989nb7o4e3ioi...@4ax.com
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
>>> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>>>> your own expressed wish.
>>>>
>>>> Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>
>>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by
>>> those for those that refuse God.
>
>> How long have you believed that hell was just a state or condition?
>> Actually that's true.
>
> Why, thank you, aw.
>

So how long have you believed it?

>
>> But until recently you believed that hell was a place with flames
>> and a satan. If its a condition that people create then 'satan' is
>> also a created concept. Nice to see you've progressed in your
>> thinking.
>
> My position is based on knowledge gained. And we know next to
> nothing about the downside - the only reference type being the city
> dump and the flames consuming everything.
>

So basically you know next to nothing about it. No real verifiable knowledge
has been gained.
Yet why do you keep warning people here every day that they're going to go
there?
You are obviously motivated only by fear.

>
>>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>> that's where you go?
>
>>> YOU do.
>
>> Ah, so God no longer judges people. Interesting.
>
> ??? No, this is your test time. I hope you studied hard.
>

I have studied about these matters, which is more then I can say about you.
But what test?
Life is an experience. If *we* decide where we go after this life then
there's no test or judgement by anyone.

>
>> That's not what your church taught long ago.
>> Finally you're starting contradicting your church on more and more
>> of the old fundamentals.
>> Congratulations.
>
>>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>> die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you
>>>> cease to exist.
>
>>> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the
>>> other side".
>> Neither do you.
>
> But I do have a man who went to one of two sides and came back to
> talk about it.
>

Who do you have?

If you're referring to Christ, what he allegedly said was symbolic and
highly open to interpretation. No one can be sure what it meant.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:dol498hv91qn1jce5...@4ax.com

> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:08:30 +1100, "Andrew W"
> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com
>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>
>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>> your own expressed wish.
>
>> We have to meet him before we can decide that.
>
> God already knows your decision.
>

Then our having to decide is pointless and meaningless.
Just more senseless from a know nothing religion/cult follower.

>
>> Your church's version is not very desirable nor makes much sense.
>
> That's your problem, not mine.
>

Its your church's problem because it created the undesirable and nonsensical
version from its faulty interpretations and propagations of different
conflicting scriptures.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:mjl498tqtg5oddd84...@4ax.com

> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:27:31 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <7d12989jibjpff2bd...@4ax.com>,
>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to
>>>>> do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own
>>>>> expressed wish.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>
>>>> Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or
>>>> another psychopath.
>>>
>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>
>> So which one are you--coward or psychopath?
>
> Super intelligent.
>

So you keep telling us.

An intelligent man never boast about his intelligence because he's
intelligent enough to be humble and realise how little he actually knows in
the scheme of things.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:7il4989gdr5fuseu7...@4ax.com

You misspelt 'beliefs'.

[Andrew W]

"sbalneav" <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in message
news:k6sh8j$bre$1...@dont-email.me

> In alt.atheism Smiler <Youm...@joeking.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even
>>>>>>> "tough" love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>>> anything to do
>>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own
>>>>>> expressed wish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or
>>>>> another psychopath.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>>
>>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.
>>
>> I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.
>
> Well, certainly not the brain, anyway.
>

Why? Its never been used so it would be like new.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:ubb5989tvteb8blva...@4ax.com

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create
evil: I the LORD do all these things."

Isaiah 45:7 KJV

>
>> Trace it back through whatever you present and you will find that it
>> isn't money, or love of money, or Satan (or Satin), but in your
>> belief God is the root of all evil.
>
> Belief in a supreme creator is the root of all evil?
>

An evil one yes.

>
Interesting
> when our very God calls us to love one another as he loves us.
>

That was Jesus who allegedly said that, not the OT god.
But you and others don't follow that call anyway.

>
> If you want to reference a root of all evil, it's the free will that he
> gave us,
>

Free will is evil??
Only to a tyrant it definitely is. Thanks for making clear what your god is.

>
> a will in which we can choose God's way or our way.
>

Typical tyrant modality.

>
You
> see, he wants us to see his love and choose to turn to him, but if we
> prefer to do things our way instead of his way, we're free to do so.
>

Free to do so on pain of death? How is that freedom?

He sounds very insecure in himself and his acclaimed power.
Typical of a false god.
Needs to constantly enforce love and allegiance to himself.

>
> Personally, I'm all in with God's love.
>

Of course. You'll follow anyone who talks with authority. You're an
authority worshipper.
Jesus warned us not to trust authority figures and secretive organisations.
Fool.

[Smiler]

On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:44:53 -0500, Don Martin wrote:

> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:30:20 +0000, Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:45:53 +0000, Don Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:

>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (�R.Measures) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,

>>>>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>>>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>>>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell -

>>>>>> which was apparently about 300�C hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.
>>>>
>>>> And furnaces.
>>>
>>> Those "dark, satanic mills" needed them for their nefarious purposes.
>>
>>Blast your irony.
>
> I was steeled for your response.

Are you casting yourself as a pig for neferrous purposes?

--
Smiler,

The godless one. a.a.# 2279

All gods are tailored to order. They're made to

exactly fit the prejudices of their believers.

[Smiler]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:54:45 +0000, sbalneav wrote:

> In alt.atheism Smiler <Youm...@joeking.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000, sbalneav wrote:
>>
>>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,

>>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis

>>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>>> anything to do
>>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own
>>>>>> expressed wish.
>>>>>

>>>>>Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>>>>>psychopath.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>>
>>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.
>>
>> I wouldn't WANT an organ donated by him.
>
> Well, certainly not the brain, anyway.

What brain?

[sbalneav]

In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:27:46 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>
>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>>
>>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>
>>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>> that refuse God.
>
>>So, I'm in hell now? Hell's pretty sweet. All my friends are here, there's
>>beer whenever I want it, nice sunsets, boat rides... why are you guys so down
>>on Hell?
>
> And then you die.

Correct.

> And then you are judged.

Bald assertion.

>>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>>that's where you go?
>>> YOU do.
>>Well, since according to you, I'm already there, best decision I've ever made.
>
> This is your test, not the grade.

Says your holy book.

>>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>>>exist.
>>>
>>> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>>
>>Oh, more than a clue. I've actually attended autopsies and funerals, and read
>>a lot on what happens to your body after death.
>
> Well, the good news is that "from dust you came, to dust you will return">

Well, there's kind of a gooey bit before the dust bit. And yes, it is good
news. Who the heck would want to live forever?


--
__ _ | There's small choice in rotten apples.
(_ |_) | -- William Shakespeare, "The Taming of the Shrew"
__)|_) |

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:mtb598177am7bccen...@4ax.com

> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
> wrote:
>
>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>> *everything*.
>>>
>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your
>>> head. Yes, God created and then turned it over to evolution with
>>> the mandate that humankind will learn to overcome evil and hence
>>> "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>
>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an
>> omniscient being, he is supposed to already know the results of the
>> test?
>
> We..........don't.
>

You don't? All humans have to do the same, even the Pope.
Are you now claiming that you and other Catholics aren't a human and are
somehow above everyone else?
Your arrogance and self-righteousness are now fully apparent.

>
> You have the choice to make, not God.
>

Lol. No one suggested that God had to make a choice.
Dork.

[Andrew W]

"sbalneav" <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in message

news:k6v2mr$sr$1...@dont-email.me

Those whose fun and pleasures in life have been virtually outlawed by their
religion/cult in this life, making them desperate for happiness and
pleasures in a next life, and because of that desperation they want to
experience it forever.

[Steve O]

On 01/11/2012 17:22, duke wrote:
> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>
>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>> *everything*.
>>>
>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>
>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
>> being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?
>
> We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.
>

How does the fact that we don't know the end result change anything?
You're not thinking about this properly at all.
You see, I reject God as an atheist, and I expect I will continue to
reject God until the end of my life.
If that happens, then God will supposedly have already known that from
the moment I was born.
So once again, what exactly is the need for the test?

[Steve O]

I think we've already ascertained he's a bit of both.

[Calvin Ramsey]

So you will be fully aware of the extremity of your guilt.

[Mike Duffy]

sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in news:k6v2mr$sr$1...@dont-email.me:

> ... Who the heck would want to live forever?

I thought we all did. Obviously, it is a naturally selected instinct. Also,
it seems clear that it is strong enough to cause delusion in some people.

--
http://pages.videotron.ca/duffym/index.htm

[Calvin Ramsey]

On 11/1/2012 4:49 PM, Jeanne Douglas wrote:

[snip]

> A super intelligent person would NOT worship a
> genocidal torturing psychopathic monster unless he were either an abject
> coward or another psychopath.

And yet another "agnostic" who believes in God.

I hope you know you are an embarrassment to real Agnostics.

[Christopher A. Lee]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 00:25:26 +0000 (UTC), Mike Duffy
<Use_guest...@website.in.sig> wrote:

>sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in news:k6v2mr$sr$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> ... Who the heck would want to live forever?
>
>I thought we all did. Obviously, it is a naturally selected instinct. Also,

No, it isn't.

Survival is an instinct.

But when one isn't taught theism or afterlife, and when one sees the
death of grandparents and has it explained honestly rather than the
comforting lie, it doesn't mean the same as it does to theists.

The main concern of the elderly atheists I have known, was for their
loved ones not themselves.

And now I am among that group.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:7dl498lv8m05mavng...@4ax.com
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:34:07 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:

>
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>

>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>> anything to do
>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own
>>>>> expressed wish.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>

>>>> Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or
>>>> another psychopath.
>>>

>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>

>> That's nice, but fill out your organ donor card.
>

> If the want it, they can have it. That's called love. When the body
> dies, the indestructible soul moves on.
>

Love is giving someone something when you're dead and don't need it any
more??

[Seth lePod]

On Oct 30, 4:44 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net>

> wrote:
>

:
> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.

:
> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

Odd, I don't recall ever expressing a wish to be
"cast into the lake of fire".


Seth

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 07:30:58 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>

Why should anyone have heard of it?

>I'm not here to educate people about their own religions, just to make them
>aware so they start seeking the truth on their own.

Ok, so you were just bullshitting and got caught.

>Basically religions like the RCC spin things their own way.

So what is the "model of Christian hell"? Why should any lay person know about
some concept that we have nothing to with or can do anything about it? I await
your educated answer on this one.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:48:25 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

That's not the answer. Your evil comes directly from you. Given a chance, it's
the one you choose to embrace, and then accept the flames of hell over.

>>> Trace it back through whatever you present and you will find that it
>>> isn't money, or love of money, or Satan (or Satin), but in your
>>> belief God is the root of all evil.
>> Belief in a supreme creator is the root of all evil?
>An evil one yes.

That would be your evil (g)od. Mine is all love.

>> Interesting
>> when our very God calls us to love one another as he loves us.

>That was Jesus who allegedly said that, not the OT god.

God is God. There is only one - OT/NT.

>But you and others don't follow that call anyway.

Oh, we do. Take my word for it.

>> If you want to reference a root of all evil, it's the free will that he
>> gave us,
>Free will is evil??

What you do with you free will opened the door to evil by you, gobbler gonads.
Are you not intelligent enough to understand that?

>You
>> see, he wants us to see his love and choose to turn to him, but if we
>> prefer to do things our way instead of his way, we're free to do so.

>Free to do so on pain of death? How is that freedom?

Freedom of choice. I can't believe you yourself could be so stupid to accept
that condition, but accept you do.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:07:40 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>news:mtb598177am7bccen...@4ax.com
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>>> *everything*.
>>>>
>>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your
>>>> head. Yes, God created and then turned it over to evolution with
>>>> the mandate that humankind will learn to overcome evil and hence
>>>> "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>>
>>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an
>>> omniscient being, he is supposed to already know the results of the
>>> test?
>>
>> We..........don't.

>You don't? All humans have to do the same, even the Pope.

Right. But the door is narrow and only a few will get thru. The less you try,
as is your plan, the less chance of getting thru.

>Are you now claiming that you and other Catholics aren't a human and are
>somehow above everyone else?
>Your arrogance and self-righteousness are now fully apparent.

Strawman.

>> You have the choice to make, not God.
>Lol. No one suggested that God had to make a choice.
>Dork.

Yes you did when you asked "Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything

when, as an omniscient being, he is supposed to already know the results of the
test?"

And my response is that God knows, but we don't know what our final decision
will be. And that will decide our demise or lack thereof.

[duke]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 00:19:28 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:

>On 01/11/2012 17:22, duke wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>>> *everything*.
>>>>
>>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>>> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>>> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>>
>>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
>>> being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?
>>
>> We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.

>How does the fact that we don't know the end result change anything?

How??? You could still become a model Christian or elect to move to the depths
of hell. It's all a function of your future way of life. Live wisely. Once
you die, your decision making is over.

>You're not thinking about this properly at all.
>You see, I reject God as an atheist, and I expect I will continue to
>reject God until the end of my life.
>If that happens, then God will supposedly have already known that from
>the moment I was born.
>So once again, what exactly is the need for the test?
>

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 00:04:45 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:

>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:27:46 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>>love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>>>>
>>>>>Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>>
>>>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by those for those
>>>> that refuse God.
>>
>>>So, I'm in hell now? Hell's pretty sweet. All my friends are here, there's
>>>beer whenever I want it, nice sunsets, boat rides... why are you guys so down
>>>on Hell?
>>
>> And then you die.
>Correct.

>> And then you are judged.
>Bald assertion.

Not according to God. You don't get a vote.

>>>>> Hypothetically, of course, because we all know when you
>>>>>die, your elements simply disperse back to the environment, and you cease to
>>>>>exist.
>>>>
>>>> Technically, of course, you don't have a clue as to what's "on the other side".
>>>
>>>Oh, more than a clue. I've actually attended autopsies and funerals, and read
>>>a lot on what happens to your body after death.
>>
>> Well, the good news is that "from dust you came, to dust you will return">
>
>Well, there's kind of a gooey bit before the dust bit. And yes, it is good
>news. Who the heck would want to live forever?

God told us about eternal life in heaven. And he advised us of the eternal
fires of hell. When he speaks of "living forever", he's talking about firstly
spiritually and not physically.

Only those that choose hell will ever learn if he meant physically. Maybe so,
maybe not. You're establishing your final location now. Choose wisely.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 11:15:40 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"sbalneav" <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in message
>news:k6v2mr$sr$1...@dont-email.me
>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 15:27:46 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
>>> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh, more than a clue. I've actually attended autopsies and
>>>> funerals, and read a lot on what happens to your body after death.
>>>
>>> Well, the good news is that "from dust you came, to dust you will
>>> return">
>>
>> Well, there's kind of a gooey bit before the dust bit. And yes, it
>> is good news. Who the heck would want to live forever?
>>
>
>Those whose fun and pleasures in life have been virtually outlawed by their
>religion/cult in this life, making them desperate for happiness and
>pleasures in a next life, and because of that desperation they want to
>experience it forever.

Wrong, little gobbler gonads. It's eternal love in the next life. Nothing
about "pleasures". On the other side, it's eternal flames.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:19:41 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

>news:86l498tcfnbkqn3r5...@4ax.com

>> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:22:49 +1100, "Andrew W"
>> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

>>> news:j212989nb7o4e3ioi...@4ax.com

>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 14:01:10 +0000 (UTC), sbalneav
>>>> <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In alt.atheism duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>>>>> your own expressed wish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Um, no. Who created hell?
>>>>
>>>> Um, yes. Hell is a state or condition, not a place, created by
>>>> those for those that refuse God.
>>

>>> How long have you believed that hell was just a state or condition?
>>> Actually that's true.
>>
>> Why, thank you, aw.

>So how long have you believed it?

A long time. I can't really personally define hell as a "place" of eternal
fires or a "place" of eternal wandering. Either way, it's a state of existence,
or condition, not necessarily a location.

>>> But until recently you believed that hell was a place with flames
>>> and a satan. If its a condition that people create then 'satan' is
>>> also a created concept. Nice to see you've progressed in your
>>> thinking.
>>
>> My position is based on knowledge gained. And we know next to
>> nothing about the downside - the only reference type being the city
>> dump and the flames consuming everything.

>So basically you know next to nothing about it.

Just like I said above.

> No real verifiable knowledge has been gained.

Haahaahaa. That's one thought that will lead you right to hell - "real,
verifiable knowledge." Heeheehee.

>Yet why do you keep warning people here every day that they're going to go
>there?
>You are obviously motivated only by fear.

Like it or not, you're now backed into a corner.

>>>>> Who decided that if you DON'T believe in him,
>>>>> that's where you go?
>>
>>>> YOU do.
>>

>>> Ah, so God no longer judges people. Interesting.
>>
>> ??? No, this is your test time. I hope you studied hard.

>I have studied about these matters, which is more then I can say about you.

Yet you can't say one solid thing.

>But what test?
>Life is an experience. If *we* decide where we go after this life then
>there's no test or judgement by anyone.

This is your FINAL chance to do it God's way or your way. Your way leads to the
flames.

>> But I do have a man who went to one of two sides and came back to
>> talk about it.
>Who do you have?

>If you're referring to Christ, what he allegedly said was symbolic and
>highly open to interpretation. No one can be sure what it meant.

And therein lays your eternal demise.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:16:18 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

"Misspelt"? Haahaahaa.

[duke]

Mine that continues to hold you in check. Heeheehee.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 12:26:40 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
wrote:

What is it called if you refuse to donate?

[duke]

On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 13:49:31 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <mjl498tqtg5oddd84...@4ax.com>,
> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:27:31 -0700, Jeanne Douglas <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <7d12989jibjpff2bd...@4ax.com>,

>> > duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>> >> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>> >> > duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>> >> >> <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> >> >> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>> >> >> anything
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> do
>> >> >> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed
>> >> >> wish.
>> >> >
>> >> >Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>> >> >
>> >> >Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or another
>> >> >psychopath.
>> >>
>> >> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>> >

>> >So which one are you--coward or psychopath?
>>
>> Super intelligent.
>

>Irrelevant, even if true. A super intelligent person would NOT worship a
>genocidal torturing psychopathic monster

There you go. That's not at all what my all-loving God is.

>unless he were either an abject
>coward or another psychopath.

>So which are you--coward or psychopath?

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:14:50 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>

wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

>news:mjl498tqtg5oddd84...@4ax.com

>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 14:27:31 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <7d12989jibjpff2bd...@4ax.com>,
>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:14:49 -0700, Jeanne Douglas
>>>> <hlwd...@NOSPAMgmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com>,
>>>>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>>>> anything to
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own
>>>>>> expressed wish.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep, it's a genocidal torturing psychopathic monster.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which makes anyone who worships it either an abject coward or
>>>>> another psychopath.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks be to God that I chose God.
>>>
>>> So which one are you--coward or psychopath?
>>
>> Super intelligent.
>>
>

>So you keep telling us.
>
>An intelligent man never boast about his intelligence because he's
>intelligent enough to be humble and realise how little he actually knows in
>the scheme of things.

But when discussing with a fireplug like you, I just can't keep it in check.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:28:21 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>

wrote:

>"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

>news:dol498hv91qn1jce5...@4ax.com
>> On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 16:08:30 +1100, "Andrew W"

>> <remove_...@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

>>> news:v8fv8891qhae3dkq0...@4ax.com

>>>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis
>>>> <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>
>>>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want
>>>> anything to do with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to
>>>> your own expressed wish.
>>

>>> We have to meet him before we can decide that.
>>
>> God already knows your decision.

>Then our having to decide is pointless and meaningless.

Just as long as you don't care what kind of eternal demise you will experience.

>Just more senseless from a know nothing religion/cult follower.
>
>>
>>> Your church's version is not very desirable nor makes much sense.
>> That's your problem, not mine.

>Its your church's problem because it created the undesirable and nonsensical
>version from its faulty interpretations and propagations of different
>conflicting scriptures.

Good luck with your demise.

[duke]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 18:58:04 -0700 (PDT), Seth lePod <v.infe...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Oct 30, 4:44 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>:
>> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>
>:
>> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.

>Odd, I don't recall ever expressing a wish to be
>"cast into the lake of fire".
>Seth

It's simple. Follow God or follow yourself.

[Andrew W]

"duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message

news:cj7798lp3n2h4k98g...@4ax.com

Every religion has their version of hell.
The Catholic church came up with the most nasty version/model.

>
>> I'm not here to educate people about their own religions, just to
>> make them aware so they start seeking the truth on their own.
>
> Ok, so you were just bullshitting and got caught.
>

I see you could not even comprehend what I said.
Sad.
You are uneducable.
You can only be indoctrinated by old religions.

>
>> Basically religions like the RCC spin things their own way.
>
> So what is the "model of Christian hell"? Why should any lay person
> know about some concept that we have nothing to with or can do
> anything about it? I await your educated answer on this one.
>

Your religion's model of hell is eternal flames and a satan, and is
strangely the only other alternative to living with your version of a
control freak god.
Apparently you still don't understand what was even said.
No wonder you just believe in dumb senseless crap from the dark ages.

[Don Martin]

Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 19:44:53 -0500, Don Martin wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 00:30:20 +0000, Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 12:45:53 +0000, Don Martin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Smiler <Youm...@JoeKing.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 07:22:44 -0500, Don Martin wrote:

>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 03:52:00 -0700, r...@somis.org (•R.Measures) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In article <jgkeegan-847BC9...@news.individual.net>,
>>>>>>> "james g. keegan jr." <jgke...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In article <3aut8854ij7qa68h7...@4ax.com>,
>>>>>>>> Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>>>>>>>>> love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> isn't that the christian ideal?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *** The current model of Christian Hell originated c. the 5th
>>>>>>> century. It apparently increased church attendance. The only
>>>>>>> enhancement in modern times was late 19th Century Baptist Hell -
>>>>>>> which was apparently about 300ºC hotter than 5th Century RC Hell.
>>>>>>

>>>>>> By the 19th century, humanity had advanced to steam power.
>>>>>
>>>>> And furnaces.
>>>>
>>>> Those "dark, satanic mills" needed them for their nefarious purposes.
>>>
>>> Blast your irony.
>>
>> I was steeled for your response.
>
> Are you casting yourself as a pig for neferrous purposes?

Bet your sweet brass!

--
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
BAAWA Chief Assistant to the Assistant Chief Heckler
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/

[Steve O]

You're not thinking too clearly either, are you?
How would the test make me fully aware of the extremity of my guilt?
The only time I would become aware of the extremity of my error would be
after death (or so you would have us believe)
So, as I said, if from the day I was born it was already ordained that I
would burn in hell for not believing,and God was already aware that I
was not going to repent before death, then what exactly is the need for
the test?
Take your time.
By the way, while you're at it, care to explain exactly what this "test"
is supposed to be, or are you just making it all up?

[Steve O]

On 02/11/2012 10:37, duke wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 00:19:28 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>
>> On 01/11/2012 17:22, duke wrote:
>>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>>>> *everything*.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>>>> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>>>> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>>>
>>>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
>>>> being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?
>>>
>>> We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.
>
>> How does the fact that we don't know the end result change anything?
>
> How??? You could still become a model Christian or elect to move to the depths
> of hell.

It appears you haven't understood the question.
Let's say there was no chance of me repenting whatsoever, which is
probably likely, as I have absolutely no belief in this stuff at all.
So, as I said, if God already knows from the moment I am born- even
BEFORE I was born, then why does he need to set up some kind of test to
see if I woukd repent or not?
If he already knows I can't be "saved", then why not just send me
straight to hell, or for that matter , create me at all in the first place?
What, did he just create me as a destined non believer just for the fun
of torturing me for the rest of eternity after I die?
That's just crazy.

It's all a function of your future way of life. Live wisely. Once
> you die, your decision making is over.

On that we agree.
There will be absolutely no decisions for me to make after death- in
fact, any decision at that stage would be pretty much impossible.
I have seen a lot of corpses in my life, but have never seen one make a
decision.

[Steve O]

On 02/11/2012 01:11, Christopher A. Lee wrote:


> But when one isn't taught theism or afterlife, and when one sees the
> death of grandparents and has it explained honestly rather than the
> comforting lie, it doesn't mean the same as it does to theists.
>
> The main concern of the elderly atheists I have known, was for their
> loved ones not themselves.
>
> And now I am among that group.
>

Am I reading something into the above sentence that isn't there, Chris?
What I mean is, just after my father was diagnosed with a terminal
illness, all his concerns were for his family and not himself

[Steve O]

On 02/11/2012 10:29, duke wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:48:25 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
> wrote:
>
>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:ubb5989tvteb8blva...@4ax.com

>> You
>>> see, he wants us to see his love and choose to turn to him, but if we
>>> prefer to do things our way instead of his way, we're free to do so.
>
>> Free to do so on pain of death? How is that freedom?
>
> Freedom of choice. I can't believe you yourself could be so stupid to accept
> that condition, but accept you do.
>

If a nice man from Nigeria writes and offers to put $10m in your bank
account for nothing, my guess is that you would be stupid enough to
accept his conditions too.
You have simply fallen for one of the oldest con-tricks in the book,
invented by men and practiced upon idiots.
The only difference with the religion con is that the practitioners have
(usually) fallen for the con themselves as well.

[Steve O]

><sigh>I'll repeat it again for the hard of thinking...
If God "knows" then why does there need to be a test?
Please feel free to squirm out of this one if it suits you.

[Calvin Ramsey]

The "test", or "examination", better known as the "final judgement", is
where you will (supposedly) give an account of yourself before your Creator.

When you become aware that you are not able to give a "passing" account
of yourself and the life you were given, that is when you will realize the
extremity of your guilt, and the punishment it will require.

[Father Haskell]

On Nov 2, 1:47 pm, Calvin Ramsey <calvinlram...@live.com> wrote:
>
> The "test", or "examination", better known as the "final judgement", is
> where you will (supposedly) give an account of yourself before your Creator.
>
> When you become aware that you are not able to give a "passing" account
> of yourself and the life you were given, that is when you will realize the
> extremity of your guilt, and the punishment it will require.

If that ever came to pass, it'd be ME putting the
bastard on trial. No sentencing phase, no appeals,
either, I'd go straight to the hanging, then it's pizza
for everyone.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 22:56:35 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>

But the OT and NT God are one and the same. Do you ever wonder if you're booked
to go?

>>> I'm not here to educate people about their own religions, just to
>>> make them aware so they start seeking the truth on their own.
>> Ok, so you were just bullshitting and got caught.

>I see you could not even comprehend what I said.

YOU........ could not even comprehend what you said.

>>> Basically religions like the RCC spin things their own way.
>> So what is the "model of Christian hell"? Why should any lay person
>> know about some concept that we have nothing to with or can do
>> anything about it? I await your educated answer on this one.

>Your religion's model of hell is eternal flames and a satan, and is
>strangely the only other alternative to living with your version of a
>control freak god.

That's the way the bible, a book you're not familiar with, says it.

[duke]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 17:02:38 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:

>On 02/11/2012 10:29, duke wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 10:48:25 +1100, "Andrew W" <remove_...@optusnet.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "duke" <duckg...@cox.net> wrote in message
>>> news:ubb5989tvteb8blva...@4ax.com
>
>>> You
>>>> see, he wants us to see his love and choose to turn to him, but if we
>>>> prefer to do things our way instead of his way, we're free to do so.
>>
>>> Free to do so on pain of death? How is that freedom?
>>
>> Freedom of choice. I can't believe you yourself could be so stupid to accept
>> that condition, but accept you do.

>If a nice man from Nigeria writes and offers to put $10m in your bank
>account for nothing, my guess is that you would be stupid enough to
>accept his conditions too.

My offer is for eternal love of God. What does the dude form nigeria offer?

>You have simply fallen for one of the oldest con-tricks in the book,
>invented by men and practiced upon idiots.

You sound..........hmmmmmmmm, rather experienced in this one. Did you get bit?

>The only difference with the religion con is that the practitioners have
>(usually) fallen for the con themselves as well.

You pays you $, you takes you chance.

[duke]

YOU don't. You still have to think about it and do something about it.
<sigh>

[duke]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 00:19:28 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:

>On 01/11/2012 17:22, duke wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>>> *everything*.
>>>>
>>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>>> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>>> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>>
>>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
>>> being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?
>>

>> We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.

>How does the fact that we don't know the end result change anything?

Most of us, although maybe not you, see what's coming if we DON'T change. I
definitely did.

>You're not thinking about this properly at all.
>You see, I reject God as an atheist, and I expect I will continue to
>reject God until the end of my life.
>If that happens, then God will supposedly have already known that from
>the moment I was born.

<sigh>

>So once again, what exactly is the need for the test?

[duke]

On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 16:54:15 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:

>On 02/11/2012 10:37, duke wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Nov 2012 00:19:28 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>
>>> On 01/11/2012 17:22, duke wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:19:31 +0000, Steve O <nos...@here.thanks> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 01/11/2012 10:50, duke wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 08:44:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghek...@earthlink.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was under the impression that the claim was that God created
>>>>>>> *everything*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's true, from the universe itself to a particular hair on your head. Yes,
>>>>>> God created and then turned it over to evolution with the mandate that humankind
>>>>>> will learn to overcome evil and hence "pass the test" for eternal love with God.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Why does God need to "test" anyone for anything when, as an omniscient
>>>>> being, he is supposed to already know the results of the test?
>>>>
>>>> We..........don't. You have the choice to make, not God.
>>
>>> How does the fact that we don't know the end result change anything?
>>
>> How??? You could still become a model Christian or elect to move to the depths
>> of hell.
>
>It appears you haven't understood the question.

You're still confused.

>Let's say there was no chance of me repenting whatsoever, which is
>probably likely, as I have absolutely no belief in this stuff at all.

And maybe you stop long enough to realize your eternal demise can change
directions.

>So, as I said, if God already knows from the moment I am born- even
>BEFORE I was born, then why does he need to set up some kind of test to
>see if I woukd repent or not?
>If he already knows I can't be "saved", then why not just send me
>straight to hell, or for that matter , create me at all in the first place?
>What, did he just create me as a destined non believer just for the fun
>of torturing me for the rest of eternity after I die?
>That's just crazy.

> It's all a function of your future way of life. Live wisely. Once
>> you die, your decision making is over.

>On that we agree.
>There will be absolutely no decisions for me to make after death- in
>fact, any decision at that stage would be pretty much impossible.

That's what I said. If you want to change, you need to do it now when you can.

>I have seen a lot of corpses in my life, but have never seen one make a
>decision.

Heeheehee.

[duke]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
<father...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Nov 1, 7:03 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:36:32 -0700 (PDT), Father Haskell
>>
>> <fatherhask...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> >On Oct 30, 7:44 am, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 29 Oct 2012 17:49:34 -0400, Galen Hekhuis <ghekh...@earthlink.net>

>> >> wrote:
>>
>> >> >Face it, eternal torture (Hell) isn't love, it isn't even "tough"
>> >> >love. Eternal torment is just revenge, pure and simple.
>>

>> >> No, it's not. It's what's left when you tell God you don't want anything to do
>> >> with him, now or ever. He lets you go according to your own expressed wish.
>>

>> >Religion sounds a LOT like codependency.
>>
>> So does eating and sleeping along with breathing and walking.
>
>None of those involve kissing ass as a way of not
>getting eternally tortured.

Neither does making a decision to spend all eternity with God.

[duke]

On Fri, 2 Nov 2012 00:25:26 +0000 (UTC), Mike Duffy
<Use_guest...@website.in.sig> wrote:

>sbalneav <sbal...@alburg.net> wrote in news:k6v2mr$sr$1...@dont-email.me:
>
>> ... Who the heck would want to live forever?
>
>I thought we all did. Obviously, it is a naturally selected instinct. Also,
>it seems clear that it is strong enough to cause delusion in some people.

For those that want to past the test, it is easy. For those that don't care,
the reverenced result as discarding the wheat hulls as fuel in the village
garbage dump.