Noah's Ark Found?
Budikka
have found Noah's ark - or at least the imprint of it in a landslide, and bits
of wood from it. They are also convinced that the Biblical Joseph is the same
as the once obscure Egyptian architect, Imhotep! More on this in another
article.
I posted a couple of messages in their comments book at the site, correcting
some of their most obvious errors. I have been forced to come to the "obvious"
conclusion that, since my posted corrections magically disappeared without
comment, whereas blindly positive offerings, both before and after my messages,
remained intact, the comments book must be a miracle in motion. Two emails on
the subject were also ignored. If there is a more boning-fido case of
fundamentalists having their heads in the sand I have yet to hear of it.
In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who is
willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so very
much faith. Telling, isn't it?
Since the Anchor Stoners seem to be so adrift, I guess the debate is carried in
my favor by default. However, I cannot take such a give-away victory, so let's
look at the ark, using the material from their site.
They open with a photo of a apparent boat-shape in what is described as a
landslide photographed from 10,000 feet. There is nothing to show scale. The
newspaper article says the shape is at 7,000 feet on the mountain. That means
the photo was taken from a distance of only 1,000 yards, but it doesn't look
like that. There is nothing indicative of a landslide. It looks more like a
lava flow. There is no explanation offered as to how such a landslide managed
to preserve the boat shape (note this is not a boat, merely a boat shape with
nothing to hold it together) while everything else got jumbled.
This could well be a picture of a scale model for all I can tell. It appears
to be from a Life Magazine story published September 5th, 1960. The caption to
the article pretty much puts it away ("...A quick two-day survey revealed no
sign that the object was man-made...."). Only one of the original concluded
that there was anything to investigate, but here we are, 40 years later, and
the floundering faithful at Anchorstone are not even close to scientifically
investigating the shape, let alone offering any sort of proof whatsoever that
their flood claims hold water.
As long as we're identifying items in the "landslide", let me add a few I can
also see in the picture. In addition to the obvious parts of male and female
anatomy, there is also a Lockheed F117A Stealth Fighter-Bomber in the lower
left corner, which seems to be the same scale as "the ark," a Pillsbury
Dough-boy about one-third the way up the right hand side, the Statue of liberty
in the lower right corner (you can only see the tiara, and most of the spikes
appear to have broken off in the landslide), God's huge nose, with two somewhat
pinched nostrils, in the upper left corner, and what appears to be a small
sculpture of the main character in Edvard Munch's "The Scream" in the upper
right corner.
Clearly all of these need to be thoroughly investigated. Why Anchorstone is
silent about them I cannot imagine.
This landslide is claimed to be on a(n unnamed) mountain 20 miles south of Mt.
Ararat. As Jeremiah 51:27 reveals, there was never was a Mount Ararat in the
Bible, it was actually a kingdom in ancient Biblical times (until the 7th
century BC). The word means sacred (or high) land. Given that the Biblical
God was a God of the mountains (which is why, in Judges 1:19 he could not help
Judah drive out the inhabitants of the valley), it is no surprise that the ark
rested in his sacred land - supposedly on "the mountains of Ararat."
These mountains are actually where Armenia stands today. Oddly enough, Armenia
is just up the hill from the Black Sea, where (in "Noah's Flood" by William
Ryan and Walter Pittman - Simon & Schuster, 1998) evidence is discovered for a
real, but local flood, some 7,600 years ago. But of course, this couldn't
possibly be the source of the mythical global flood legend....
Further pictures taken at ground-level reveal nothing boat-shaped at all, but
an off-center mound and gullies on a relatively flat area (which makes one
wonder how there can be a landslide when there is nowhere for the land to
slide...).
Ron Wyatt decided that the best way to investigate this was not to check the
obvious - and see if underlying rock formations accounted for the shape - but
instead, to build a scale model boat and float it down mountain streams. How
he considered that this, in any way, shape or form, represented an impossibly
huge wooden ark on a violently tossing ocean being unceremoniously dumped onto
a mountain is anybody's guess. You have the see the photo of Ron's model ark.
What a treat!
Ron decided from this that the only possible way the ark could beach would be
in the concave of a crescent-shaped mountain. Next he translated the length of
the ark (300 "Royal Egyptian Cubits") into English measures and concluded that
the 500 foot object in Turkey was an exact fit.
Why did did Ron think that Noah would be using a royal Egyptian measure? Well
he "knew" that Genesis was written by Moses, who was raised in the Egyptian
court! The small fact that Moses never met Noah and never saw the ark is
irrelevant, of course. One is forced to wonder who is the real Turkey here.
Next we are treated to an amazingly accurate diagram of the ark, based on Ron's
model. This is all the science we need, apparently, so Ron decides to go visit
the ark! Not knowing where the site was, Ron prayed that the taxi would stall
to show them the location. It stalled three times. In the end they had to get
local guides to show them. So much for prayer! Why didn't he just pray for a
thunderbolt out of a clear blue sky? Or, forget the taxi - why didn't he pray
to be miraculously transported there as has happened, according to the Old
Testament?
Next Ron finds what he assumes to be an anchor stone, which has crosses carved
in it. This is scientific proof for Ron. He claims he was shown several such
stones, all with crosses on them and provides a poor quality picture. The
point of these claims is a mystery given that in Noah's time, the cross would
have had no significance whatsoever. Next he claims to have been shown a very
ancient graveyard which had strange "monuments" in it which looked like simple
representations of a three story boat. He also provides a picture of this, but
it is so lousy you cannot see anything but a miserable black shape.
Ron claims he found Noah's house, with an altar, with a graphic of the ark on
the ocean, and eight people walking away from it! (Apparently there was no
procreation on the ark, not animal, not plant, not human.... He shows a photo
of "the house" but it looks just like a pile of rocks to me.... The oddest
thing is that the Bible makes no mention whatsoever of a stone house. It does,
however, make mention of Noah in his tent....
It never once occurs to Ron or to anyone at Anchorstone that all of this might
be recent, perpetrated by those who, believing the flood story, decided to
venerate the very mountains where the ark was thought to have set down
What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were about to
be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the stairs
making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his faith in
God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would come
through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they got away
in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only guess, but
Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
Sure I believe it.
Budikka
georgann
> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
georgann:
My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด `'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)
Wolf333
news:B842C1CC.607C6%chen...@mindspring.com...
Add a couple of "ha's" in there and you will sound just like boatwright.
--
_____
"Radioactive stuff doesn't glow, muchacho."
- Cecil Adams
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
_____
Liz
<B842C1CC.607C6%chen...@mindspring.com>, wrote:
>Budikka:
>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
>> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
>> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
>> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>georgann:
>My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
Liz #658 BAAWA
"Making shit up" is as much a part of being human as
using language and tool use. -- Mark Richardson
Liz
<20011216205701...@mb-mh.aol.com>, wrote:
[-----]
>What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were about to
>be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the stairs
>making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his faith in
>God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would come
>through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they got away
>in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only guess, but
>Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
Is this where the $800 dive light comes in?
Liz #658 BAAWA
I could not believe that anyone who had read this book
would be so foolish as to proclaim that the Bible in every
literal word was the divinely inspired, inerrant word of
God? Have these people simply not read the text? Are they
hopelessly uninformed? Is there a different Bible? Are
they blinded by a combination of ego needs and naivete?
-- Bishop John Shelby Spong!
georgann
>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>> georgann:
>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
Liz:
> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
georgann:
Yup.
The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life
reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided
earth (4 quadrants).
See?
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
Liz
<B842D2F1.60832%chen...@mindspring.com>, wrote:
>>> Budikka:
>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>>> georgann:
>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
>Liz:
>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>
>georgann:
>Yup.
>
>The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
>the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life
>reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided
>earth (4 quadrants).
>
>See?
I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make it true. You
don't understand that your diagram has no probative value. None. Zip.
Zilch. Nada. (as you are fond of saying)
Liz #658 BAAWA
If something is claimed as truth, but it is not testable,
then it is worthless. -- John Hattan
Adam Marczyk
> >> Budikka:
> >>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
> >>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a
single
> >>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in
whom
> >>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
> >> georgann:
> >> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
> Liz:
> > Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>
> georgann:
> Yup.
>
> The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
> blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
> the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
> square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
life
> reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided
> earth (4 quadrants).
>
> See?
Hmm, is it just me or is Georgann getting nuttier? I never paid much
attention to her past posts, but they seemed marginally more sane than this.
This just reminds me of that Time Cube guy.
--
a.a. #2001
"Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
Director, EAC Black Monolith Division - "My God, it's full of stars"
Operative: EAC Electronic Warfare Division
EAC Subversive Fiction Division
http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843
Wolf333
news:u1qsqt9...@corp.supernews.com...
Well, she does have an election coming up.
>
> --
> a.a. #2001
> "Blasphemy is a victimless crime."
> Director, EAC Black Monolith Division - "My God, it's full of stars"
> Operative: EAC Electronic Warfare Division
> EAC Subversive Fiction Division
>
> http://www.ebonmusings.org ICQ: 8777843
>
--
Gregory A Greenman
bud...@aol.com says...
> The mindlessly clueless gather at http://www.anchorstone.com. They think they
> have found Noah's ark - or at least the imprint of it in a landslide, and bits
> of wood from it. They are also convinced that the Biblical Joseph is the same
> as the once obscure Egyptian architect, Imhotep! More on this in another
> article.
>
> I posted a couple of messages in their comments book at the site, correcting
> some of their most obvious errors. I have been forced to come to the "obvious"
> conclusion that, since my posted corrections magically disappeared without
> comment, whereas blindly positive offerings, both before and after my messages,
> remained intact, the comments book must be a miracle in motion. Two emails on
> the subject were also ignored. If there is a more boning-fido case of
> fundamentalists having their heads in the sand I have yet to hear of it.
Thanks for pointing out this site. It is quite amusing. I
especially enjoyed his model ark, which he floated
downstream in order to see how the real ark on the open sea
would behave!
Although I usually avoid posting on christian sites
(although I see no reason to respect their beliefs, I do
think it's right to respect their turf), I went ahead and
made a short post in their guest book. It's #280. It'll be
interesting to see how long it lasts.
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
Michael Painter
"Liz" <ehu...@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:rppq1usjt2dt9p758...@4ax.com...
> On 17 Dec 2001 01:57:01 GMT, bud...@aol.com (Budikka),
> <20011216205701...@mb-mh.aol.com>, wrote:
>
>
> [-----]
> >What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were
about to
> >be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the stairs
> >making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his
faith in
> >God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would come
> >through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they
got away
> >in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only guess,
but
> >Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
>
> Is this where the $800 dive light comes in?
I think that had more to do with the chariot wheel in the Red sea.
Even the fundies say he was a fraud.
Incidently I do have some wood from the ark for sale as well as nails from
the cross. (only 30 left)
Michelle Malkin
>On 17 Dec 2001 01:57:01 GMT, bud...@aol.com (Budikka),
><20011216205701...@mb-mh.aol.com>, wrote:
>
>
>[-----]
>>What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were about to
>>be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the stairs
>>making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his faith in
>>God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would come
>>through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they got away
>>in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only guess, but
>>Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
>
>Is this where the $800 dive light comes in?
>
And the chariot wheels from the chariots drawn by Pharoah's
prized battle hogs?
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
aa atheist list #1 ULC list #3 SMASH member
High Priestess Bastet of the non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC Bible Thumper Thumper BAAWA Knight Who Says SPONG!
makym# SPONG!!
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com/
http://www.geocities.com/hypatiab7/
Clayton
> >>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
> >>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a
single
> >>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in
whom
> >>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
> >> georgann:
> >> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
> Liz:
> > Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>
> georgann:
> Yup.
>
> The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
> blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
> the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
> square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
life
> reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided
> earth (4 quadrants).
>
> See?
You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
Clayton
"Michael Painter" <m.pa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:D5gT7.168563$WW.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Liz" <ehu...@donotspam.com> wrote in message
> news:rppq1usjt2dt9p758...@4ax.com...
> > On 17 Dec 2001 01:57:01 GMT, bud...@aol.com (Budikka),
> > <20011216205701...@mb-mh.aol.com>, wrote:
> >
> >
> > [-----]
> > >What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were
> about to
> > >be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the
stairs
> > >making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his
> faith in
> > >God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would
come
> > >through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they
> got away
> > >in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only
guess,
> but
> > >Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
> >
> > Is this where the $800 dive light comes in?
>
> I think that had more to do with the chariot wheel in the Red sea.
>
> Even the fundies say he was a fraud.
>
> Incidently I do have some wood from the ark for sale as well as nails from
> the cross. (only 30 left)
There are enough peices of wood from the "True Cross" around to build the
"True Ark" several times over.
Taiss
>>> Budikka:
>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>>> georgann:
>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
>Liz:
>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>
>georgann:
>Yup.
>
>The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
>the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life
>reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided
>earth (4 quadrants).
I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
--
Taiss
aa (malkinite)#1888
makynian #"thinkit"
Liz
<zLeT7.174229$kf1.54...@news1.rdc1.ne.home.com>, wrote:
>"Adam Marczyk" <ebon...@hotmailNOTexcite.com> wrote in message
>news:u1qsqt9...@corp.supernews.com...
[-----]
>> Hmm, is it just me or is Georgann getting nuttier? I never paid much
>> attention to her past posts, but they seemed marginally more sane than
>this.
>> This just reminds me of that Time Cube guy.
>
>Well, she does have an election coming up.
D'oh! I forgot about that.
Liz #658 BAAWA
"I believe in a forgiving God, a God who sees in my heart. I
will take my chances with Him forgiving me because I think He
is more accepting and forgiving of my posing nude for Playboy
than the rest of the public." -- Darva Conger
/\tomkinder
news:3c1da7ce$0$22498$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
It'll be her pride and joy I'm sure.
> >
> > --
> > (`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
> > «´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
> > All your mystery are belong to Christinsanity!
> > http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
> > (¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
--
/\tom
aa #1984
georgann
>>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>>>> georgann:
>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>> Liz:
>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>> georgann:
>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>> quadrants). See?
Liz:
> I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make it true. You
> don't understand that your diagram has no probative value. None. Zip. Zilch.
> Nada. (as you are fond of saying)
georgann:
Its true if the source is true. You only say it has no probative value cause
you haven't given credit for its demonstrative value first. Maybe if you
would consider its illustrative value you could progress from there.
Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most ardent
of atheist intellectuals.
georgann
>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>> quadrants).
Taiss:
> I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
> if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
> in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
georgann:
Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to do. That would
be divination.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
georgann
>>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>>>> georgann:
>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>> Liz:
>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>> georgann:
>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>> quadrants). See?
Clayton:
> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
georgann:
I didn't know I was nominated.
And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
have another moment's lucidity.
Let it shine shine shine LORD,
let it shine! :p
Madame Osiris Gnomeclencher
>Budikka:
>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
>> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
>> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
>> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>georgann:
>My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
At last, somone who makes David Icke look sane.
Robibnikoff
>
>Budikka:
>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
>> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
>> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
>> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>georgann:
>My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
You don't think this actually proves that the flood happened, do you? ;)
Oops - that's right, you do.
Unfortunately for you, your diagram doesn't mean anything outside of the sad
confines of your own mind. Or has a reputable scholar of some sort analyzed
yet?
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Delighted Member of SMASH
B. Kildow
>
> The mindlessly clueless gather at http://www.anchorstone.com. They think they
> have found Noah's ark - or at least the imprint of it in a landslide, and bits
> of wood from it. They are also convinced that the Biblical Joseph is the same
> as the once obscure Egyptian architect, Imhotep! More on this in another
> article.
>
<snippage for length only>
If you can still find a copy of the December "Fortean Times" on the
newsstand, it has an extensive article on Ron Wyatt and his
"archaeology" (using the term so loosely, bits are falling off of it).
Here's a good quote:
"Cynics find ammunition in the naive way Ron's reports are written up.
Their somewhat self-righteous tone loses some gloss from misspellings,
vaguely relevant biblical quotes, whimsical interpretations of
scientific facts, and muzzy photos of various digs. The implication is
that their naivety is synonymous with honesty. Ron's video evidence
collapses under scrutiny, and not all believers go along with what has
been called "The Great Christian Scam." Seventh Day Adventists, for
instance, have been among Ron's harshest and loudest critics, while
scientists who are Christians remain aghast at Ron's cavalier
interpretations. Ron was sometimes his own worst enemy, issuing bizarre
statements on his lecture tours which were guaranteed to give ammunition
to his critics. For one demanding to be taken seriously, Ron had a
perverse way of going about it."
He has supposed discovered both the hiding place of the Ark of the
Covenant and the crucifixion (amazingly(!) in the same place!!). But,
"Ron's covering-up of the excavation means that no-one can now verify
(or refute) his claims. Furthermore, what should be a site of reverence
and devotion has - for the short term at least - been once again lost.
This immediately casts doubts on the discovery; but according to Ron,
the site was of far greater importance than anyone could imagine."
BK <devoted reader of the Fortean>
(aa#1992)
Ichimusai
> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
At least that part is an error of your diagram.
--
AA #769 ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
Mailinglist ATAGUN http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atagun
PGP - ID:0x7B83CC8B FP:41F9 597D 9E84 D922 917F D4E3 E8EB 6D76 7B83 CC8B
Swedish born and Swedish bred - strong in arm and good in bed.
Ichimusai
> Its true if the source is true. You only say it has no probative
> value cause you haven't given credit for its demonstrative value
> first. Maybe if you would consider its illustrative value you could
> progress from there.
Well, it does not since what you build it on is not necessarily
true. And the method you use when making the diagram is unlike every
other method of data organization I have ever heard of and thus it
would have to be verified in another more strict context first to see
if there is a value in your way of organizing things.
If you list your rules in order of precendence that you apply to data
to build your diagram perhaps they can be examined?
> Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the
> most ardent of atheist intellectuals.
Some evidence would be nice though. And unfortunately for you there is
quite a lot of evidence against a world wide flood. In fact, there is
*nothing* in the geological column that indicates it and it would
surely be the case if it happened as described in the bible.
Ichimusai
> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
> do. That would be divination.
How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
georgann
>> do. That would be divination.
Ichimusai:
> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
georgann:
Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
God's.
Al Klein
<ebon...@hotmailNOTexcite.com> posted in alt.atheism:
>Hmm, is it just me or is Georgann getting nuttier? I never paid much
>attention to her past posts, but they seemed marginally more sane than this.
>This just reminds me of that Time Cube guy.
Nuttier than "heaven is a place just past the speed of light"?
--
Al - rukbat at optonline dot net
Packman
>
> >> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
> >> do. That would be divination.
>
> Ichimusai:
> > How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
> georgann:
> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
> God's.
LOL!
Robibnikoff
>
>>> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
>>> do. That would be divination.
>
>Ichimusai:
>> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
>georgann:
>Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
>that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
>God's.
So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
Um....prove it ;)
Ichimusai
> >> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
> >> do. That would be divination.
>
> Ichimusai:
> > How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
> georgann:
> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
> God's.
Your god.
georgann
>>>> do. That would be divination.
>> Ichimusai:
>>> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>> georgann:
>> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
>> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
>> God's.
Robibnikoff:
> So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
> Um....prove it ;)
georgann:
I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis, Exodus and
Revelation.
Al Klein
>Budikka:
>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
>> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
>> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
>> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>georgann:
>My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most ardent
>of atheist intellectuals.
No, we're demanding absolute proof that there's enough H2O on this
planet to cause a flood of every square inch of land.
Since we know the land, and we know how much H2O there is, you'll have
to come up with some magic "out". Like god made there be more water
for a year, then made it vanish. Or like god squashed the mountains
down and pulled the seabeds up, so that the existing water flooded the
entire planet, then pushed the mountains up and the sea beds down
again. Without leaving a trace of his having done it.
(Yes, georgann, we know exactly how much H2O there is on, above and
inside the planet. We also know precisely how much water would be
needed to flood the entire planet. And the two numbers aren't even
within an order of magnitude close.)
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>Clayton:
>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>georgann:
>I didn't know I was nominated.
You're in the top 5. Top 3, actually, I think.
As far as I'm concerned, your "diagram" (it's cute art, but indicative
of nothing at all) and your claim that the speed of light is a place
puts you ahead of first place by a wide margin.
Along with a few other lunatics.
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>Taiss:
>> I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
>> if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
>> in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
>georgann:
>Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
>Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to do. That would
>be divination.
No, that would be proving that your claim has at least the smallest
bit of merit. Which you aren't about to do, since it would make you a
laughing-stock.
georgann
>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>> georgann:
>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
Al Klein:
> Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
georgann:
Nope. Just shows it completely surrounding the earth and "covering" it. I
figure that's one of the things I'll have to ask Him face to face one day.
georgann
>> of atheist intellectuals.
Al Klein:
> No, we're demanding absolute proof that there's enough H2O on this
> planet to cause a flood of every square inch of land.
> Since we know the land, and we know how much H2O there is, you'll have
> to come up with some magic "out". Like god made there be more water
> for a year, then made it vanish. Or like god squashed the mountains
> down and pulled the seabeds up, so that the existing water flooded the
> entire planet, then pushed the mountains up and the sea beds down
> again. Without leaving a trace of his having done it.
> (Yes, georgann, we know exactly how much H2O there is on, above and
> inside the planet. We also know precisely how much water would be
> needed to flood the entire planet. And the two numbers aren't even
> within an order of magnitude close.)
georgann:
Why do you assume it was the depth of water in the flood that killed
everyone? I think it means everyone but Noah and his family died at the same
time it flooded. I admit I don't understand the 15 cubits above the
mountains bit, but if its anything like the other stuff I've found in my
diagram its more like coordinates info and data than a real physical
description. Remember how long this info had to get passed down from father
to son before it was written down.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
georgann
>>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>> georgann:
>> I didn't know I was nominated.
Al Klein:
> You're in the top 5. Top 3, actually, I think.
> As far as I'm concerned, your "diagram" (it's cute art, but indicative
> of nothing at all) and your claim that the speed of light is a place
> puts you ahead of first place by a wide margin.
georgann:
I don't think the speed of light is a place. I think there's other
dimension(s) at light speed.
--
(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
Packman
>
> >> Budikka:
> >>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
> >>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
> >>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
> >>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
> >> georgann:
> >> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
> Al Klein:
> > Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
>
> georgann:
> Nope. Just shows it completely surrounding the earth and "covering" it. I
> figure that's one of the things I'll have to ask Him face to face one day.
Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
Liz
This isn't necessarily so. You, yourself, said that you have made other
diagrams using the same data that "don't work the same". It shows only
your illustrative representation of stories in a book. It shows what you
want it to show. Your second problem is with your source material. The
Bible has not been demonstrated to be "true".
>You only say it has no probative value cause
>you haven't given credit for its demonstrative value first. Maybe if you
>would consider its illustrative value you could progress from there.
The biggest detriment to your diagram is that the data you have drawn does
not reflect "real world" evidence. I could plot the "Wizard of Oz" and
come up with a pretty diagram and say that it shows that ruby slippers can
take you to Kansas. This, of course, would be true if one did not consider
the lack of objective evidence that such an event could actually happen.
>Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most ardent
>of atheist intellectuals.
I didn't demand "flat out proof". I said that your diagram has no
probative value. It does not. Evidence for a world wide flood or
translocation using ruby slippers do not come from diagrams or even books.
Evidence for Noah's Flood would be found in the geology of the Earth.
Evidence for quick transportation to Kansas would be found by clicking the
heels of ruby slippers and repeating the phrase, "There's no place like
home," AND suddenly arriving in Kansas. As yet, no objective evidence for
either of these events has been discovered.
Your diagram means nothing.
Liz #658 BAAWA
You can define anything you want, any way you want. Defining it as such
is not the same as offering real world evidence to support your
assertion. -- Woden
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>In article <20011216205701...@mb-mh.aol.com>,
>bud...@aol.com says...
>> The mindlessly clueless gather at http://www.anchorstone.com.
>Thanks for pointing out this site. It is quite amusing.
P. T. Barnum missed by orders of magnitude. There are thousands of
them born every minute.
>Although I usually avoid posting on christian sites
>(although I see no reason to respect their beliefs, I do
>think it's right to respect their turf), I went ahead and
>made a short post in their guest book. It's #280. It'll be
>interesting to see how long it lasts.
It sticks out like a sore thumb. No spelling or grammatical errors.
Medieval Knievel
"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B843ED15.60D02%chen...@mindspring.com...
georgann:
> Nope. Just shows it completely surrounding the earth and "covering" it. I
> figure that's one of the things I'll have to ask Him face to face one day.
Too bad he doesn't exist and you'll be dead.
--
********************
Medieval Knievel
ICQ # 26667824
"No, you can't change the password. You can erase it and create a new one,
but you can't "change" it. "--Chief schools ok.general on passwords
***********************
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
Medieval Knievel
> Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
>
Sure they are. Now go take your meds.
Medieval Knievel
> And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
> have another moment's lucidity.
> Let it shine shine shine LORD,
> let it shine! :p
<Knievel has to get up off the floor, having been knocked backwards by a
gust of laughter.>
Medieval Knievel
>Remember how long this info had to get passed down from father
> to son before it was written down.
So much for your divinely inspired holy book, huh?
georgann
Packman:
> Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
georgann:
I figure it isn't particularly relevant. Except, of course, to my diagram.
And that's going swimmingly, thanks.
georgann
>>>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>>>> georgann:
>>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>>>> blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
>>>> the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>>>> square >>>> = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
>>>> life reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the
>>>> divided earth (4 quadrants). See?
>> Liz:
>>> I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make it true. You
>>> don't understand that your diagram has no probative value. None. Zip.
>>> Zilch. Nada. (as you are fond of saying)
>> georgann:
>> Its true if the source is true.
Liz:
> This isn't necessarily so. You, yourself, said that you have made other
> diagrams using the same data that "don't work the same". It shows only your
> illustrative representation of stories in a book. It shows what you want it
> to show. Your second problem is with your source material. The Bible has not
> been demonstrated to be "true".
georgann:
I only got a slightly different diagram because not all the data had been
added. It means something to the before and after of the Creation Days but
not much to the space-time continuum we are in. :p
>> You only say it has no probative value cause you haven't given credit for its
>> demonstrative value first. Maybe if you would consider its illustrative value
>> you could progress from there.
Liz:
> The biggest detriment to your diagram is that the data you have drawn does not
> reflect "real world" evidence. I could plot the "Wizard of Oz" and come up
> with a pretty diagram and say that it shows that ruby slippers can take you to
> Kansas. This, of course, would be true if one did not consider the lack of
> objective evidence that such an event could actually happen.
georgann:
The evidence is in the fact that all the data comes from OT which was penned
between 2500 and 3500 years ago. Since that data produces an inescapable
illustration of such enormous complexity, complexity that only a
supercomputer could otherwise decipher, you're forced to admit the Bible
reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that Intelligent
Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
>> Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most ardent
>> of atheist intellectuals.
Liz:
> I didn't demand "flat out proof". I said that your diagram has no probative
> value. It does not. Evidence for a world wide flood or translocation using
> ruby slippers do not come from diagrams or even books. Evidence for Noah's
> Flood would be found in the geology of the Earth. Evidence for quick
> transportation to Kansas would be found by clicking the heels of ruby slippers
> and repeating the phrase, "There's no place like home," AND suddenly arriving
> in Kansas. As yet, no objective evidence for either of these events has been
> discovered.
georgann:
You better watch out how demanding you get on physical proofs Liz. Some of
your most cherished formulas in physics are persistently theoretical.
> Your diagram means nothing.
georgann:
You wish.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
Michael Painter
> >> Clayton:
> >>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't
you?
>
> >> georgann:
> >> I didn't know I was nominated.
>
> Al Klein:
> > You're in the top 5. Top 3, actually, I think.
>
> > As far as I'm concerned, your "diagram" (it's cute art, but indicative
> > of nothing at all) and your claim that the speed of light is a place
> > puts you ahead of first place by a wide margin.
>
> georgann:
> I don't think the speed of light is a place. I think there's other
> dimension(s) at light speed.
There's a newspaper that does a "Best of Chico" every year for a variety of
subjects. After a few years they just retired some of the places because
they *always* won and by a large margin.
I've just looked at geaorgann's site and think she should be retired - from
the contest also.
I do wonder about her rainbow however. Her bible says god placed a sign in
the clouds and I've never seen a rainbow in a cloud.
stoney
<4dpq1u80gk9o811ni...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 02:25:22 GMT, georgann <chen...@mindspring.com>,
><B842C1CC.607C6%chen...@mindspring.com>, wrote:
>
>>Budikka:
>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
>>> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who
>>> is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so
>>> very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>>
>>georgann:
>>My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
>
>Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
It is. True(tm) Georgannic fecal matter.
>Liz #658 BAAWA
>
>"Making shit up" is as much a part of being human as
>using language and tool use. -- Mark Richardson
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
stoney
Message ID: <zLeT7.174229$kf1.54...@news1.rdc1.ne.home.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
>"Adam Marczyk" <ebon...@hotmailNOTexcite.com> wrote in message
>news:u1qsqt9...@corp.supernews.com...
>> georgann <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:B842D2F1.60832%chen...@mindspring.com...
>> > >> Budikka:
>> > >>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate
>the
>> > >>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a
>> single
>> > >>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in
>> whom
>> > >>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>> >
>> > >> georgann:
>> > >> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>> >
>> > Liz:
>> > > Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>> >
>> > georgann:
>> > Yup.
>> >
>> > The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>> > triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>> > blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle
>became
>> > the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>> > square = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
>> life
>> > reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the
>divided
>> > earth (4 quadrants).
>> >
>> > See?
>>
>> Hmm, is it just me or is Georgann getting nuttier? I never paid much
>> attention to her past posts, but they seemed marginally more sane than
>this.
>> This just reminds me of that Time Cube guy.
>
>Well, she does have an election coming up.
Don't forget this is the tradition time for fruitcakes, like Georgann, to really
pop up.
stoney
ID: <B8435C9A.609CF%chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>>>>> Budikka:
>>>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>>>>> georgann:
>>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
>>> Liz:
>>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>
>>> georgann:
>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>>> quadrants). See?
>
>Clayton:
>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>
>georgann:
>I didn't know I was nominated.
>
>And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
>have another moment's lucidity.
>Let it shine shine shine LORD,
>let it shine! :p
(shriek!!!!)
(taps plays for Georgann's last neuron)
Liz
So are you now saying that it doesn't really matter how you draw your
diagram? I think that would be frustrating after you spent years
designing it.
>>> You only say it has no probative value cause you haven't given credit for its
>>> demonstrative value first. Maybe if you would consider its illustrative value
>>> you could progress from there.
>
>Liz:
>> The biggest detriment to your diagram is that the data you have drawn does not
>> reflect "real world" evidence. I could plot the "Wizard of Oz" and come up
>> with a pretty diagram and say that it shows that ruby slippers can take you to
>> Kansas. This, of course, would be true if one did not consider the lack of
>> objective evidence that such an event could actually happen.
>
>georgann:
>The evidence is in the fact that all the data comes from OT which was penned
>between 2500 and 3500 years ago. Since that data produces an inescapable
>illustration of such enormous complexity, complexity that only a
>supercomputer could otherwise decipher, you're forced to admit the Bible
>reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that Intelligent
>Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
LOL No, I'm not forced to admit that. Understanding of the universe
will not be gleaned from your diagram. Adding more lines does not make a
picture profound. The universe does not conform to your diagram, nor does
your diagram even conform to the universe. If there was a world wide
flood, there should be physical evidence for that event. Pointing to your
pretty picture and saying "See" without out any other evidence falls
hilariously short of convincing.
>>> Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most ardent
>>> of atheist intellectuals.
>
>Liz:
>> I didn't demand "flat out proof". I said that your diagram has no probative
>> value. It does not. Evidence for a world wide flood or translocation using
>> ruby slippers do not come from diagrams or even books. Evidence for Noah's
>> Flood would be found in the geology of the Earth. Evidence for quick
>> transportation to Kansas would be found by clicking the heels of ruby slippers
>> and repeating the phrase, "There's no place like home," AND suddenly arriving
>> in Kansas. As yet, no objective evidence for either of these events has been
>> discovered.
>
>georgann:
>You better watch out how demanding you get on physical proofs Liz. Some of
>your most cherished formulas in physics are persistently theoretical.
My most cherished formulas? Which ones would those be? Do you think that
the physical universe would change if a new formula was developed or a new
theory was presented. The world would be the same as it ever was. Only
our understand of it would change. Your grasp of physics is tenuous at
best.
I still haven't asked you for proof. I've asked you for real world
evidence. Gravity can be physically demonstrated without ever knowing a
formula. Electricity can be physically demonstrated without ever knowing a
formula. I've not asked you for any theory that requires a formula. I've
asked you to show that your diagram has any relationship at all to the real
world.
>> Your diagram means nothing.
>
>georgann:
>You wish.
ROTFL Silly girl. It's worthless except to tack up on your wall.
Liz #658 BAAWA
The universe is under no obligation to conform to our
preferences. -- N M Stevens
Liz
<l19t1uso1unne044h...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:25:53 GMT, georgann <chen...@mindspring.com>, Message
>ID: <B8435C9A.609CF%chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>
>>>>>> georgann:
>>>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>>
>>>> Liz:
>>>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>>
>>>> georgann:
>>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>>>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>>>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>>>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>>>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>>>> quadrants). See?
>>
>>Clayton:
>>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>>
>>georgann:
>>I didn't know I was nominated.
>>
>>And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
>>have another moment's lucidity.
>>Let it shine shine shine LORD,
>>let it shine! :p
>
>(shriek!!!!)
>(taps plays for Georgann's last neuron)
I don't think that she really needs to worry about having another moment of
lucidity. That last moment already has come and gone.
Liz #658 BAAWA
One of the ugly realities of this world is that it is possible
to grow old without ever learning anything besides religious
superstitions. -- Clothaire
Medieval Knievel
> you're forced to admit the Bible
> reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that
Intelligent
> Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
Maybe if you're totally fucking nuts.
Medieval Knievel
>. Except, of course, to my diagram.
> And that's going swimmingly, thanks.
Did you open up your Christmas crayons and work on it some more?
Liz
<stinky_c...@hotmail.com>, <3c1eadbb$1...@corp.newsgroups.com>, wrote:
>
>"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:B844023B.60D4D%chen...@mindspring.com...
>
>
>> you're forced to admit the Bible
>> reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that
>>Intelligent Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
>
>Maybe if you're totally fucking nuts.
Yes, that's what I meant to say, but it took me 110 lines. :(
Memo to self: Think pithy.
Liz #658 BAAWA
I could not believe that anyone who had read this book
would be so foolish as to proclaim that the Bible in every
literal word was the divinely inspired, inerrant word of
God? Have these people simply not read the text? Are they
hopelessly uninformed? Is there a different Bible? Are
they blinded by a combination of ego needs and naivete?
-- Bishop John Shelby Spong!
/\tomkinder
news:3c1e8...@corp.newsgroups.com...
>
> "georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:B8435D56.609D2%chen...@mindspring.com...
>
> > Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
> >
>
> Sure they are. Now go take your meds.
God doesn't want her taking her meds, that would make her sane.
> --
>
> ********************
> Medieval Knievel
> ICQ # 26667824
> "No, you can't change the password. You can erase it and create a new
one,
> but you can't "change" it. "--Chief schools ok.general on passwords
> ***********************
--
/\tom
aa #1984
Chris Nelson
news:D5gT7.168563$WW.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Incidently I do have some wood from the ark for sale as well as nails from
> the cross. (only 30 left)
And I've got about 2 tons of pieces of the True Cross for sale, for the low,
low price of $1,999.95 an ounce! And if you act now, I'll throw in a FREE
vial of holy water fresh from the Ohio River!
--
Chris
AUDIO VIDEO DISCO - "I hear, I see, I learn"
Steve Knight
wrote:
>Packman:
>> Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
>
>georgann:
>I figure it isn't particularly relevant. Except, of course, to my diagram.
>And that's going swimmingly, thanks.
Yeah. Swimmingly like a 94 pound bag of cement.
Warlord Steve
BAAWA
Medieval Knievel
"Liz" <ehu...@donotspam.com> wrote in message
news:hqct1ukbolsolbkna...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:02:33 -0600, "Medieval Knievel"
> <stinky_c...@hotmail.com>, <3c1eadbb$1...@corp.newsgroups.com>,
wrote:
>
> >
> >"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> >news:B844023B.60D4D%chen...@mindspring.com...
> >
> >
> >> you're forced to admit the Bible
> >> reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that
> >>Intelligent Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
> >
> >Maybe if you're totally fucking nuts.
>
> Yes, that's what I meant to say, but it took me 110 lines. :(
>
>
> Memo to self: Think pithy.
>
I'm a poet married to a novelist. I've learned to use words economically
<g>
John McCoy
> The mindlessly clueless gather at http://www.anchorstone.com. They think they
> have found Noah's ark - or at least the imprint of it in a landslide, and bits
> of wood from it. They are also convinced that the Biblical Joseph is the same
> as the once obscure Egyptian architect, Imhotep! More on this in another
> article.
>
> I posted a couple of messages in their comments book at the site, correcting
> some of their most obvious errors. I have been forced to come to the "obvious"
> conclusion that, since my posted corrections magically disappeared without
> comment, whereas blindly positive offerings, both before and after my messages,
> remained intact, the comments book must be a miracle in motion. Two emails on
> the subject were also ignored. If there is a more boning-fido case of
> fundamentalists having their heads in the sand I have yet to hear of it.
>
> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the Genesis
> flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single fundie who is
> willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom they have so very
> much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
> my favor by default. However, I cannot take such a give-away victory, so let's
> look at the ark, using the material from their site.
>
> They open with a photo of a apparent boat-shape in what is described as a
> landslide photographed from 10,000 feet. There is nothing to show scale. The
> newspaper article says the shape is at 7,000 feet on the mountain. That means
> the photo was taken from a distance of only 1,000 yards, but it doesn't look
> like that. There is nothing indicative of a landslide. It looks more like a
> lava flow. There is no explanation offered as to how such a landslide managed
> to preserve the boat shape (note this is not a boat, merely a boat shape with
> nothing to hold it together) while everything else got jumbled.
>
> This could well be a picture of a scale model for all I can tell. It appears
> to be from a Life Magazine story published September 5th, 1960. The caption to
> the article pretty much puts it away ("...A quick two-day survey revealed no
> sign that the object was man-made...."). Only one of the original concluded
> that there was anything to investigate, but here we are, 40 years later, and
> the floundering faithful at Anchorstone are not even close to scientifically
> investigating the shape, let alone offering any sort of proof whatsoever that
> their flood claims hold water.
>
> As long as we're identifying items in the "landslide", let me add a few I can
> also see in the picture. In addition to the obvious parts of male and female
> anatomy, there is also a Lockheed F117A Stealth Fighter-Bomber in the lower
> left corner, which seems to be the same scale as "the ark," a Pillsbury
> Dough-boy about one-third the way up the right hand side, the Statue of liberty
> in the lower right corner (you can only see the tiara, and most of the spikes
> appear to have broken off in the landslide), God's huge nose, with two somewhat
> pinched nostrils, in the upper left corner, and what appears to be a small
> sculpture of the main character in Edvard Munch's "The Scream" in the upper
> right corner.
>
> Clearly all of these need to be thoroughly investigated. Why Anchorstone is
> silent about them I cannot imagine.
>
> This landslide is claimed to be on a(n unnamed) mountain 20 miles south of Mt.
> Ararat. As Jeremiah 51:27 reveals, there was never was a Mount Ararat in the
> Bible, it was actually a kingdom in ancient Biblical times (until the 7th
> century BC). The word means sacred (or high) land. Given that the Biblical
> God was a God of the mountains (which is why, in Judges 1:19 he could not help
> Judah drive out the inhabitants of the valley), it is no surprise that the ark
> rested in his sacred land - supposedly on "the mountains of Ararat."
>
> These mountains are actually where Armenia stands today. Oddly enough, Armenia
> is just up the hill from the Black Sea, where (in "Noah's Flood" by William
> Ryan and Walter Pittman - Simon & Schuster, 1998) evidence is discovered for a
> real, but local flood, some 7,600 years ago. But of course, this couldn't
> possibly be the source of the mythical global flood legend....
>
> Further pictures taken at ground-level reveal nothing boat-shaped at all, but
> an off-center mound and gullies on a relatively flat area (which makes one
> wonder how there can be a landslide when there is nowhere for the land to
> slide...).
>
> Ron Wyatt decided that the best way to investigate this was not to check the
> obvious - and see if underlying rock formations accounted for the shape - but
> instead, to build a scale model boat and float it down mountain streams. How
> he considered that this, in any way, shape or form, represented an impossibly
> huge wooden ark on a violently tossing ocean being unceremoniously dumped onto
> a mountain is anybody's guess. You have the see the photo of Ron's model ark.
> What a treat!
>
> Ron decided from this that the only possible way the ark could beach would be
> in the concave of a crescent-shaped mountain. Next he translated the length of
> the ark (300 "Royal Egyptian Cubits") into English measures and concluded that
> the 500 foot object in Turkey was an exact fit.
>
> Why did did Ron think that Noah would be using a royal Egyptian measure? Well
> he "knew" that Genesis was written by Moses, who was raised in the Egyptian
> court! The small fact that Moses never met Noah and never saw the ark is
> irrelevant, of course. One is forced to wonder who is the real Turkey here.
>
> Next we are treated to an amazingly accurate diagram of the ark, based on Ron's
> model. This is all the science we need, apparently, so Ron decides to go visit
> the ark! Not knowing where the site was, Ron prayed that the taxi would stall
> to show them the location. It stalled three times. In the end they had to get
> local guides to show them. So much for prayer! Why didn't he just pray for a
> thunderbolt out of a clear blue sky? Or, forget the taxi - why didn't he pray
> to be miraculously transported there as has happened, according to the Old
> Testament?
>
> Next Ron finds what he assumes to be an anchor stone, which has crosses carved
> in it. This is scientific proof for Ron. He claims he was shown several such
> stones, all with crosses on them and provides a poor quality picture. The
> point of these claims is a mystery given that in Noah's time, the cross would
> have had no significance whatsoever. Next he claims to have been shown a very
> ancient graveyard which had strange "monuments" in it which looked like simple
> representations of a three story boat. He also provides a picture of this, but
> it is so lousy you cannot see anything but a miserable black shape.
>
> Ron claims he found Noah's house, with an altar, with a graphic of the ark on
> the ocean, and eight people walking away from it! (Apparently there was no
> procreation on the ark, not animal, not plant, not human.... He shows a photo
> of "the house" but it looks just like a pile of rocks to me.... The oddest
> thing is that the Bible makes no mention whatsoever of a stone house. It does,
> however, make mention of Noah in his tent....
>
> It never once occurs to Ron or to anyone at Anchorstone that all of this might
> be recent, perpetrated by those who, believing the flood story, decided to
> venerate the very mountains where the ark was thought to have set down
>
> What happened to all the evidence? Ron Lost it. He claims they were about to
> be robbed on the last night. They heard the bandits coming up the stairs
> making a lot of noise. At this point he seems to have lost all of his faith in
> God, for rather than pray for deliverance, confident that God would come
> through for him, he climbed out the window, his kids in tow. How they got away
> in the dark, in a strange land, without transportation, I can only guess, but
> Ron had to leave a bunch of his film evidence behind....
>
> Sure I believe it.
Your post is one of the dumbest I've ever seen on this subject. You
should quit while you're ahead. You lie alot too.
John McCoy
>
> Budikka
Medieval Knievel
>Your grasp of physics is tenuous at
> best.
>
As is her grasp of geometry, history, logic.....ad nauseum.
I have sophomore special ed students that know more about these things than
Georgann.
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>georgann:
>Why do you assume it was the depth of water in the flood that killed
>everyone?
No one assumes that. The bible STATES that the water covered ALL the
land. That's land that's 29,500 feet above sea level, so that's the
height of the flood waters. either that, or "all" doesn't mean "all".
> I think it means everyone but Noah and his family died at the same
>time it flooded. I admit I don't understand the 15 cubits above the
>mountains bit
Fifteen cubits (22.5 feet) higher than the highest mountain top, which
would be Mt. Everest.
> but if its anything like the other stuff I've found in my
>diagram
Who gives a fluff what's in your diagram? We're talking about what's
in the bible - the DIRECT word of your god.
>Remember how long this info had to get passed down from father
>to son before it was written down.
ALL the land isn't open to much interpretation, georgann. It's either
ALL the land, or it's a local flood - not much room for "sorta-all"
there.
Now go and make up some nonsense to counter your bible's claim of a
flood that enough water doesn't exist for, and couldn't have gone
anywhere if it did exist.
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>georgann:
>I don't think the speed of light is a place.
You claimed that heaven is a place beyond (or past, or something of
the sort) the speed of light.
> I think there's other dimension(s) at light speed.
Light speed isn't a place, so there can't anything "there".
It's cute, but it's too dumb even for you.
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>>> georgann:
>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>Al Klein:
>> Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
>georgann:
>Nope. Just shows it completely surrounding the earth and "covering" it.
Then we're still under water now, since there's no way all those
trillions of tons of water could have gone anywhere.
Oops.
If someone is really feeding you this crap, he's not god - he's the
village idiot with a working telepathone.
Al Klein
in alt.atheism:
>Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
He took off for the holidays. His birthday is coming up, you know.
Dethstryk
>> So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
>> Um....prove it ;)
>
> georgann:
> I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis,
> Exodus and Revelation.
You took things out of those three books and applied them with your own
hand. Not God's.
And besides, you said yourself Revelation wasn't very understood. What
makes you think you understand it? (Especially when you've dismissed it
in the past..)
--
Dethstryk aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
http://www.cox-internet.com/dethstryk/
"All you know about me is what I've sold you, dumb fuck. I sold out long
before you ever heard my name. I sold my soul to make a record dip shit,
and you bought it." - Tool, "Hooker with a Penis"
Al Klein
posted in alt.atheism:
>Packman:
>> Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
>georgann:
>I figure it isn't particularly relevant. Except, of course, to my diagram.
And to the fact that the bible makes physically impossible assertions,
like 5 miles of water appearing out of nowhere and not destroying the
planet. I guess Jesus doesn't know anything about kinetic energy, and
how hot it would get if 5 miles of water fell in 40 days. (It would
get so hot that no water would reach the ground - it would all turn to
superheated steam before that. Taking all life with it, of course,
and totally destroying anything made of wood or flesh.)
Oops - seems the morons who wrote the OT goofed.
Either that or georgann is privy to secrets heretofore not known in
this universe.
I'd bet everything I had on the former.
Wolf333
> >> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
> >> do. That would be divination.
>
> Ichimusai:
> > How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
> georgann:
> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
> God's.
The heated race for looney theist 2001 continues. We've just heard from
Georgann and her "diagram from god." How will this stand up to boatwright's
"Photoshop altered pictures from god?" Boatwright does have more experience,
but georgann could be a front runner if she keeps this up.
>
> --
> (`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ(`'ท.ธ ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)ธ.ท'ด)
> ซดจ`ท.ธธ ธธ.ทดจ `ป
> All your mystery are belong to Christ!
> http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
> (ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด(ธ.ท'ด `'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)`'ท.ธ)
>
>
--
_____
"Radioactive stuff doesn't glow, muchacho."
- Cecil Adams
Michael Wolfe
AA# 1912
_____
Wolf333
> >>>> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
> >>>> do. That would be divination.
>
> >> Ichimusai:
> >>> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
> >> georgann:
> >> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the
idea
> >> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
> >> God's.
>
> > So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
> > Um....prove it ;)
>
> georgann:
> I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis, Exodus
and
> Revelation.
An oldie but a goodie, georgann claims that her diagram is taken from the
bible and therefore must be gods word. While this is a tried and true
approach, georgann gives it a different slant by not using random
capitalization, misspellings and use the of the "Haha" made famous by
boatwright. Her subtlety may just give her the edge.
Wolf333
> >> georgann:
> >> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2
(the
> >> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the
biggest blue
> >> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
the
> >> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
square =
> >> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life
reaches
> >> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth
(4
> >> quadrants).
>
> > I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
> > if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
> > in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
>
> georgann:
> Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
>
would
> be divination.
And there is the fact that it would probably prove you wrong.
Wolf333
news:8TyT7.32815$va.14...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> "Michael Painter" <m.pa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:D5gT7.168563$WW.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > Incidently I do have some wood from the ark for sale as well as nails
from
> > the cross. (only 30 left)
>
> And I've got about 2 tons of pieces of the True Cross for sale, for the
low,
> low price of $1,999.95 an ounce! And if you act now, I'll throw in a FREE
> vial of holy water fresh from the Ohio River!
(shudder) I didn't grow up around the Ohio river, but I did grow up where
the Muskingum and Licking come together before entering the Ohio (Zanesville
Ohio! The Y-Bridge City!). Holy is right, if you use the phrase "Holy Shit."
>
> --
> Chris
> AUDIO VIDEO DISCO - "I hear, I see, I learn"
>
>
--
Taiss
wrote:
>>> georgann:
>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>>> quadrants).
>
>Taiss:
>> I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
>> if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
>> in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
>
>georgann:
>Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
I did a google search so that I could find your diagram again. I'm
afraid I don't understand how it works.
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/creation/EventsofGenerations.pdf
Is there a newer version that this one? One that explains what the
lines and stuff are for?
I can see that in the bottom left quadrant, there is a chronological
progression of people from Adam in the very bottom left to the cross
in the center which I assume has something to do with Jesus if it's
not the actual crucifiction event. I can also see that events are
represented by yellow lines which are perpendicular to the timeline.
That is all I can tell about it.
So now I've got a few questions. What are the other four quadrants
for? I'm guessing that the top two are heaven and the bottom two are
the earth. Would events that happen now be in the bottom right
quadrant? And what is "the land of promise" and why is it there?
I don't understand the red lines at all. All I can tell is that when
they cross each other, there is a white dot.
What's the giant circle for?
What's are all the blue squares for?
What's the basketball hoop thing at the top of everything to which
many of the red lines connect?
>Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to do. That would
>be divination.
Please have patience with me because I don't know much about the
bible. Is there a rule against divination?
Thank you.
--
Taiss
aa (malkinite)#1888
makynian #"thinkit"
georgann
>> I only got a slightly different diagram because not all the data had been
>> added. It means something to the before and after of the Creation Days but
>> not much to the space-time continuum we are in. :p
Liz:
> So are you now saying that it doesn't really matter how you draw your
> diagram? I think that would be frustrating after you spent years
> designing it.
georgann:
No. That's not what I'm saying. It can be drawn similarly. But it only works
this way to get all the data on it. The other way is a more perfect diagram
but its "closed". That is it shows the creation with God IN IT but without
the cross section that you see on mine that "allows" entry. IOW once this
baby closes up, the references to gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness
becomes more than just allegorical.
>>>> You only say it has no probative value cause you haven't given credit for
>>>> its demonstrative value first. Maybe if you would consider its illustrative
>>>> value you could progress from there.
>> Liz:
>>> The biggest detriment to your diagram is that the data you have drawn does
>>> not reflect "real world" evidence. I could plot the "Wizard of Oz" and
>>> come up with a pretty diagram and say that it shows that ruby slippers can
>>> take you to Kansas. This, of course, would be true if one did not consider
>>> the lack of objective evidence that such an event could actually happen.
>> georgann:
>> The evidence is in the fact that all the data comes from OT which was penned
>> between 2500 and 3500 years ago. Since that data produces an inescapable
>> illustration of such enormous complexity, complexity that only a
>> supercomputer could otherwise decipher, you're forced to admit the Bible
>> reflects both an Intelligent Designer for the universe and that Intelligent
>> Designer's name is Jesus Christ.
Liz:
> LOL No, I'm not forced to admit that. Understanding of the universe will
> not be gleaned from your diagram. Adding more lines does not make a picture
> profound. The universe does not conform to your diagram, nor does your
> diagram even conform to the universe. If there was a world wide flood, there
> should be physical evidence for that event. Pointing to your pretty picture
> and saying "See" without out any other evidence falls hilariously short of
> convincing.
georgann:
Understanding of the spiritual universe CAN come from the diagram. It
parallels the Bible. And we all already know that spirit leads physical. IOW
God's spirit moved over the "face of the waters" then He became a man. Like
us. God is no longer only "spirit". I doubt He ever was because He preexists
everything of the physical universe.
>>>> Demanding flat out proof seems to be too big a bite even for the most
>>>> ardent of atheist intellectuals.
>> Liz:
>>> I didn't demand "flat out proof". I said that your diagram has no probative
>>> value. It does not. Evidence for a world wide flood or translocation using
>>> ruby slippers do not come from diagrams or even books. Evidence for Noah's
>>> Flood would be found in the geology of the Earth. Evidence for quick
>>> transportation to Kansas would be found by clicking the heels of ruby
>>> slippers and repeating the phrase, "There's no place like home," AND
>>> suddenly arriving in Kansas. As yet, no objective evidence for either of
>>> these events has been discovered.
>> georgann:
>> You better watch out how demanding you get on physical proofs Liz. Some of
>> your most cherished formulas in physics are persistently theoretical.
Liz:
> My most cherished formulas? Which ones would those be? Do you think that
> the physical universe would change if a new formula was developed or a new
> theory was presented. The world would be the same as it ever was. Only our
> understand of it would change. Your grasp of physics is tenuous at best.
> I still haven't asked you for proof. I've asked you for real world evidence.
> Gravity can be physically demonstrated without ever knowing a formula.
> Electricity can be physically demonstrated without ever knowing a formula.
> I've not asked you for any theory that requires a formula. I've asked you to
> show that your diagram has any relationship at all to the real world.
georgann:
Uh huh. And just where do you think the laws of nature came from? Order out
of chaos or even potential chaos is a mandate for belief in God.
>>> Your diagram means nothing.
>> georgann:
>> You wish.
Liz:
> ROTFL Silly girl. It's worthless except to tack up on your wall.
georgann:
A little music and its going on the road!
georgann
>>>> georgann:
>>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>>>> blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
>>>> the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>>>> square >>>> = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
>>>> life reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the
>>>> divided earth (4 quadrants).
>> Taiss:
>>> I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
>>> if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
>>> in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
>> georgann:
>> Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
Taiss:
> I did a google search so that I could find your diagram again. I'm afraid I
> don't understand how it works.
> http://www.lexington-on-line.com/creation/EventsofGenerations.pdf
georgann:
Old stuff. See new stuff on the sig page.
> Is there a newer version that this one? One that explains what the lines and
> stuff are for?
georgann:
Explaining the lines specifically isn't included on much of it. It really
doesn't want to be explained that way. It just is. As a result of analyzing
Genesis and Exodus and some Revelation. Its the BIG picture. God's plan. In
time, out of time, on heaven, on earth, real people, ancient history, our
future. Its all there.
Taiss:
> I can see that in the bottom left quadrant, there is a chronological
> progression of people from Adam in the very bottom left to the cross in the
> center which I assume has something to do with Jesus if it's not the actual
> crucifiction event. I can also see that events are represented by yellow
> lines which are perpendicular to the timeline. That is all I can tell about
> it.
georgann:
Download the largest PDF on the top right of the page in my sig. They are
the latest additions. That will help. My overall take on it is that the
Genesis Creation Days are more like timeless events. They apply to segments
of the diagram and are indicative of more than some order of the
"manufacture" of the universe. What we know of as time and space is limited
to the 4 quadrants inside the blue square. I can't really decide where time
as we know it begins but I suspect its on the line where Enoch was raptured
- age 365 - at the same vertical line as Abraham's birth, the first altar
(beginning of sacrifice), the birth of Isaac and Ishmael (our Islamic
friends) and the destruction of Sodom. Some very important events and all
falling on what would be the Third Creation Day.
Taiss:
> So now I've got a few questions. What are the other four quadrants for? I'm
> guessing that the top two are heaven and the bottom two are the earth. Would
> events that happen now be in the bottom right quadrant? And what is "the land
> of promise" and why is it there?
georgann:
You're pretty good at this. Heaven and earth yes. Land of Promise is the
point at which the Jews to the Land of Promise after the Exodus from Egypt.
Its the culmination of God's info to us on it. And the Land of Promise is
universal to all men because it is Eden returned. Only until it gets to the
Cross (in the cross section) it seems only to apply to the Jews. At the
cross it begins to apply to all men ... following either of the 45บ lines to
the far right. Even beyond the 4 quadrants. That would be the point at which
God will live with us in the new heaven and new earth.
> I don't understand the red lines at all. All I can tell is that when they
> cross each other, there is a white dot.
georgann:
The red lines are the most "Creation" oriented lines on the whole thing.
They all originate from the green ring that represents the Throne of God at
the top in the middle. They essentially form the 6 Days of active Creation
and when in a snapshot or still frame as shown looking directly at the
cross. If you look close up at the Throne of God you'll see its seven red
lines and (obviously) six spaces between them.
Those same Six Days are seven red lines that come out from the Throne of
God, like God's seven spirits spoken of in Revelation. Once the red lines
strike the edge of the creation area they reflect or ricochet back upwards
to the far upper corners. But you'll notice they remain connected and are
never ending. At least until God comes out of "rest".
They have a white dot (star?) where they cross because that's if major
significance to the whole creation.
> What's the giant circle for?
georgann:
I don't know which version you're looking at but if you mean the very large
circle that rings most of the 4 quadrants, that's a mirror reflection of the
heart of the cross (cross section) and the Throne of God. I figure its "the
Word of God"... both as Jesus is the first Word and the speaking into being
the creation.
> What's are all the blue squares for?
georgann:
Blue squares??
> What's the basketball hoop thing at the top of everything to which many of the
> red lines connect?
georgann:
The Throne of God.
>> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to do. That would
>> be divination.
> Please have patience with me because I don't know much about the bible. Is
> there a rule against divination?
georgann:
Yes there is a very big "rule" against divination.
Chris Nelson
news:2yBT7.176020$kf1.55...@news1.rdc1.ne.home.com...
> "Chris Nelson" <cris...@REMOVEhome.com> wrote in message
> news:8TyT7.32815$va.14...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com...
> > "Michael Painter" <m.pa...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:D5gT7.168563$WW.10...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > Incidently I do have some wood from the ark for sale as well as nails
> from
> > > the cross. (only 30 left)
> >
> > And I've got about 2 tons of pieces of the True Cross for sale, for the
> low,
> > low price of $1,999.95 an ounce! And if you act now, I'll throw in a
FREE
> > vial of holy water fresh from the Ohio River!
>
> (shudder) I didn't grow up around the Ohio river, but I did grow up where
> the Muskingum and Licking come together
Licking come together? Ew..
> before entering the Ohio (Zanesville
> Ohio! The Y-Bridge City!). Holy is right, if you use the phrase "Holy
Shit."
Aargh! I live downstream from there....and the water we drink comes from the
river.....
AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH!
Robibnikoff
>
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:58:19 -0600, Packman <pma...@yahoo.com> posted
>in alt.atheism:
>
>>Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
>
>He took off for the holidays. His birthday is coming up, you know.
It's actually not for another 3 to 6 months, but what the hey ;)
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo and EAC Spellcaster
#1557
Delighted Member of SMASH
Gregory A Greenman
chen...@mindspring.com says...
> >>>> Budikka:
> >>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
> >>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
> >>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
> >>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
> >>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
> >> Al Klein:
> >>> Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
>
> >> georgann:
> >> figure that's one of the things I'll have to ask Him face to face one day.
>
> Packman:
> > Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
>
> I figure it isn't particularly relevant. Except, of course, to my diagram.
Good point. Your jesus didn't even bother to respond to the
attack on The World Trade Center, so why should we expect
it to respond to a relatively insignificant question like
this.
Greg the Reprobate
Missionary of Death
-------------------
greg -at- spencersoft -dot- com
Elroy Willis
>> What's the basketball hoop thing at the top of everything to which many of the
>> red lines connect?
> georgann:
> The Throne of God.
God sits on a throne?
--
Elroy Willis
EAP Chief Editor and Newshound
http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news
Gregory A Greenman
chen...@mindspring.com says...
>
> Clayton:
> > You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>
> georgann:
> I didn't know I was nominated.
>
> And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
> have another moment's lucidity.
> Let it shine shine shine LORD,
> let it shine! :p
At last someone prays a prayer that will probably be
answered.
Robibnikoff
>
>>>>> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
>>>>> do. That would be divination.
>
>>>> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
>>> georgann:
>>> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
>>> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
>>> God's.
>
>Robibnikoff:
>> So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
>> Um....prove it ;)
>
>georgann:
>I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis, Exodus and
>Revelation.
Oh DO you now.
I fail to see how some bad art proves the existence of supernatural beings.
And you just saying that it does, does NOT make it so. Does anyone else on the
face of the planet agree that your diagram proves the existence of your god?
Darran Ho
loonies out there hooting for inane theories like that... I thought I would
only get to see them on TV!
georgann: we thought it would be nice to give you an special surprise! the
award prize is a lifetime stay in the Penthouse! Loonybin version of
course....
JY
"Gregory A Greenman" <s...@sig.below> wrote in message
news:MPG.1689165f3...@netnews.attbi.com...
Medieval Knievel
> georgann:
> A little music and its going on the road!
Opening up for Spinal Tap, are you?
Medieval Knievel
> > What's the basketball hoop thing at the top of everything to which many
of the
> > red lines connect?
>
> georgann:
> The Throne of God.
God shoots hoops?
Dethstryk
>> A little music and its going on the road!
>
> Opening up for Spinal Tap, are you?
It's all a rock and roll creation, right? ;)
--
Dethstryk aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
http://www.cox-internet.com/dethstryk/
"Better to reign in hell, than serve in heaven."
- Paradise Lost, John Milton
stoney
<stinky_c...@hotmail.com>, Message ID: <3c1e8...@corp.newsgroups.com>
wrote in alt.atheism;
>
>"georgann" <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>news:B843EFA9.60D08%chen...@mindspring.com...
>>Remember how long this info had to get passed down from father
>> to son before it was written down.
>
>So much for your divinely inspired holy book, huh?
Game. Set. Match. But then she draws on the same pile of excrement to support
the excrement she spouts.
--
Stoney
"Designated Rascal and Rapscallion
and
SCAMPERMEISTER!"
When in doubt, SCAMPER about!
When things are fair, SCAMPER everywhere!
When things are rough, can't SCAMPER enough!
stoney
<j88t1u014lu5qa01h...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 01:12:31 GMT, georgann <chen...@mindspring.com>,
><B844023B.60D4D%chen...@mindspring.com>, wrote:
>
>>>>>> Liz:
>>>>>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>>
>>>>>> georgann:
>>>>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>>>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest
>>>>>> blue square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became
>>>>>> the square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue
>>>>>> square >>>> = the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's
>>>>>> life reaches exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the
>>>>>> divided earth (4 quadrants). See?
>>
>>>> Liz:
>>>>> I understand what you are saying, but it still doesn't make it true. You
>>>>> don't understand that your diagram has no probative value. None. Zip.
>>>>> Zilch. Nada. (as you are fond of saying)
>>
>>>> georgann:
>>>> Its true if the source is true.
>>
>>Liz:
>>> This isn't necessarily so. You, yourself, said that you have made other
>>> diagrams using the same data that "don't work the same". It shows only your
>>> illustrative representation of stories in a book. It shows what you want it
>>> to show. Your second problem is with your source material. The Bible has not
>>> been demonstrated to be "true".
>>
>>georgann:
>>I only got a slightly different diagram because not all the data had been
>>added. It means something to the before and after of the Creation Days but
>>not much to the space-time continuum we are in. :p
>
>So are you now saying that it doesn't really matter how you draw your
>diagram? I think that would be frustrating after you spent years
>designing it.
Prime example of GIGO (garbage in garbage out).
(snip)
stoney
<5r9t1ugltvfe83arq...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:06:44 GMT, stoney <sto...@stoneynet.net>,
><l19t1uso1unne044h...@4ax.com>, wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:25:53 GMT, georgann <chen...@mindspring.com>, Message
>>ID: <B8435C9A.609CF%chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>>
>
>>>>>>> georgann:
>>>>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>>>
>>>>> Liz:
>>>>>> Voilà! If it's in georgann's diagram, it must be True®.
>>>
>>>>> georgann:
>>>>> Yup. The waters above and the waters below that God separated on Day 2 (the
>>>>> triangle = firmament = heaven) is the same "waters" that are the biggest blue
>>>>> square. When He brought the flood upon the earth the triangle became the
>>>>> square (Day 3) and the square was completely surrounded by the blue square =
>>>>> the waters. That plus the line indicating the Flood on Noah's life reaches
>>>>> exactly from corner to corner on the earth portion of the divided earth (4
>>>>> quadrants). See?
>>>
>>>Clayton:
>>>> You're really campaigning hard for that loony theist award, aren't you?
>>>
>>>georgann:
>>>I didn't know I was nominated.
>>>
>>>And if THIS is lunacy, may I never
>>>have another moment's lucidity.
>>>Let it shine shine shine LORD,
>>>let it shine! :p
>>
>>(shriek!!!!)
>>(taps plays for Georgann's last neuron)
>
>I don't think that she really needs to worry about having another moment of
>lucidity. That last moment already has come and gone.
It was a delayed transmission.... :) (it took awhile to find the exit from the
"Gordian Knot")
stoney
ID: <B843E175.60C72%chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>>>>> Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to
>>>>> do. That would be divination.
>
>>> Ichimusai:
>>>> How convenient. I guess we should just take your word for it.
>
>>> georgann:
>>> Well since it shows everything PAST that should lend credence to the idea
>>> that it also have everything FUTURE in it too. Its not my diagram. Its
>>> God's.
>
>Robibnikoff:
>> So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
>> Um....prove it ;)
>
>georgann:
>I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis, Exodus and
>Revelation.
IOW, Larry, Curley, and Moe.
stoney
Message ID: <Xns917B2CBA49ACje...@207.126.101.100> wrote in
alt.atheism;
>[alt.atheism] georgann (chen...@mindspring.com):
>
>>> So that thing of yours is actually God's diagram?
>>> Um....prove it ;)
>>
>> georgann:
>> I know its God's diagram because I took it directly from Genesis,
>> Exodus and Revelation.
>
>You took things out of those three books and applied them with your own
>hand. Not God's.
>
>And besides, you said yourself Revelation wasn't very understood. What
>makes you think you understand it? (Especially when you've dismissed it
>in the past..)
That was in *those* posts which differs from *this* post.
(eyes roll)
stoney
<ge0t1us2mqfgp7c9p...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>On Mon, 17 Dec 2001 13:29:00 GMT, georgann <chen...@mindspring.com>
>posted in alt.atheism:
>
>>Taiss:
>>> I don't know a great deal about your diagram, so I hope you don't mind
>>> if I ask a possibly silly question. Does it show events that happen
>>> in the future as well as the past? Thank you.
>
>>georgann:
>>Yes. Events of the future are ALL in there.
>
>>Now determining what they are is NOT something I'm willing to do. That would
>>be divination.
>
>No, that would be proving that your claim has at least the smallest
>bit of merit. Which you aren't about to do, since it would make you a
>laughing-stock.
She alread has that status.
stoney
<EA9F4CD8DA897F4A.8A659F34...@lp.airnews.net> wrote in
alt.atheism;
>georgann <chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
>
>>> What's the basketball hoop thing at the top of everything to which many of the
>>> red lines connect?
>
>> georgann:
>> The Throne of God.
>
>God sits on a throne?
Porcelin.
stoney
ID: <B843FF92.60D4A%chen...@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
>>>>> Budikka:
>>>>>> In one of my emails, I challenged anyone from the group to debate the
>>>>>> Genesis flood story. In 12 months of asking, I have yet to find a single
>>>>>> fundie who is willing to step up to the bat and support this God in whom
>>>>>> they have so very much faith. Telling, isn't it?
>
>>>>> georgann:
>>>>> My diagram shows the waters covering the whole earth.
>
>>> Al Klein:
>>>> Does it explain where they came from? Where they went?
>
>>> georgann:
>>> Nope. Just shows it completely surrounding the earth and "covering" it. I
>>> figure that's one of the things I'll have to ask Him face to face one day.
>
>Packman:
>> Why can't Jesus give you the answer now?
>
>georgann:
>I figure it isn't particularly relevant. Except, of course, to my diagram.
>And that's going swimmingly, thanks.
Says Georgann from the bottom of the Marrianas Trench.
stoney
Message ID: <N8IT7.33453$va.15...@news2.rdc1.mi.home.com> wrote in
alt.atheism;
Oh, but its perfectly safe to drink....Don't worry...drink deeply..... :)))
georgann
>>> to son before it was written down.
>> So much for your divinely inspired holy book, huh?
stoney:
> Game. Set. Match. But then she draws on the same pile of excrement to
> support the excrement she spouts.
georgann:
You guys are so easy on yourselves. You forget God worked through people to
have His will done. Consider Tamar who opted into the LORD's family tree
while having to deceive Judah (who almost opted out) in order to do it. A
holy woman who according to your way of thinking just wanted to screw her
father-in-law. Shows what YOU know. HA!
Liz
<B844A8BF.60FA3%chen...@mindspring.com>, wrote:
>>> georgann:
>>> I only got a slightly different diagram because not all the data had been
>>> added. It means something to the before and after of the Creation Days but
>>> not much to the space-time continuum we are in. :p
>
>Liz:
>> So are you now saying that it doesn't really matter how you draw your
>> diagram? I think that would be frustrating after you spent years
>> designing it.
>
>
>georgann:
>No. That's not what I'm saying. It can be drawn similarly. But it only works
>this way to get all the data on it. The other way is a more perfect diagram
>but its "closed". That is it shows the creation with God IN IT but without
>the cross section that you see on mine that "allows" entry. IOW once this
>baby closes up, the references to gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness
>becomes more than just allegorical.
Georgann, your diagram does not affect reality. The "gnashing of teeth"
doesn't become real simply because you draw your diagram in a certain way.
No, we don't *know* that. This idea is pure speculation. You can't even
produce evidence for "spirit".
No, it is not. The "laws of nature" as you call them are descriptive, not
prescriptive. The universe works the way it does because of the properties
inherent in the elemental particles and forces that comprise it. The fact
that the universe behaves as it behaves may mandate *your* belief in GodŽ,
but there is absolutely no reason to think that the universe needs a
supernatural lawgiver to make it "obey" the law.
>
>>>> Your diagram means nothing.
>
>>> georgann:
>>> You wish.
>
>Liz:
>> ROTFL Silly girl. It's worthless except to tack up on your wall.
>
>georgann:
>A little music and its going on the road!
If you enjoy it, fine. It's as good a hobby as genealogy. However, you
put far too much significance in an artist's interpretation of the Bible,
even if you happen to be the artist.
Liz #658 BAAWA
There is nothing wrong with having a belief (or lacking one). It's the
confusion of belief with knowledge - and of knowledge with
mathematical certainty - which is the problem of many people.
-- HR Gruemm
Randy Day
>
> On Tue, 18 Dec 2001 02:23:38 GMT, Liz <ehu...@donotspam.com>, Message ID:
> <5r9t1ugltvfe83arq...@4ax.com> wrote in alt.atheism;
[snip]
> >>(shriek!!!!)
> >>(taps plays for Georgann's last neuron)
> >
> >I don't think that she really needs to worry about having another moment of
> >lucidity. That last moment already has come and gone.
>
> It was a delayed transmission.... :) (it took awhile to find the exit from the
> "Gordian Knot")
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "Moebius Strip".
R
Atheist Chair,
EAC Disciplinary Committee
--
georgann
>>>> I only got a slightly different diagram because not all the data had been
>>>> added. It means something to the before and after of the Creation Days but
>>>> not much to the space-time continuum we are in. :p
>> Liz:
>>> So are you now saying that it doesn't really matter how you draw your
>>> diagram? I think that would be frustrating after you spent years
>>> designing it.
>> georgann:
>> No. That's not what I'm saying. It can be drawn similarly. But it only works
>> this way to get all the data on it. The other way is a more perfect diagram
>> but its "closed". That is it shows the creation with God IN IT but without
>> the cross section that you see on mine that "allows" entry. IOW once this
>> baby closes up, the references to gnashing of teeth in the outer darkness
>> becomes more than just allegorical.
Liz:
> Georgann, your diagram does not affect reality. The "gnashing of teeth"
> doesn't become real simply because you draw your diagram in a certain way.
georgann:
I'm not attempting to "affect reality". Simply describe it.
Liz:
> No, we don't *know* that. This idea is pure speculation. You can't even
> produce evidence for "spirit".
georgann:
Don't have to. Its obvious.
Liz:
> No, it is not. The "laws of nature" as you call them are descriptive, not
> prescriptive. The universe works the way it does because of the properties
> inherent in the elemental particles and forces that comprise it. The fact
> that the universe behaves as it behaves may mandate *your* belief in God®, but
> there is absolutely no reason to think that the universe needs a supernatural
> lawgiver to make it "obey" the law.
georgann:
The "properties inherent in the elemental particles and forces that comprise
it" are designed by my God. Not superfluous afterthoughts.
>>>>> Your diagram means nothing.
>>>> georgann:
>>>> You wish.
>> Liz:
>>> ROTFL Silly girl. It's worthless except to tack up on your wall.
>> georgann:
>> A little music and its going on the road!
Liz:
> If you enjoy it, fine. It's as good a hobby as genealogy. However, you put
> far too much significance in an artist's interpretation of the Bible, even if
> you happen to be the artist.
georgann:
Its not my "placing of significance" here. Its God's. He dedicated an entire
book to what He thought mankind should know about Him. 66 books to be
precise. Through the hands of men and women.
re: http://www.khouse.org/6640/technical/20001009-149.html
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
All your mystery are belong to Christ!
http://www.lexington-on-line.com/Creation_Intro.html
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
Dethstryk
> Its not my "placing of significance" here. Its God's. He dedicated an
> entire book to what He thought mankind should know about Him. 66 books
> to be precise. Through the hands of men and women.
That very last sentence is the problem, georgann.
--
Dethstryk aa #75C
BAAWA Knit
http://www.cox-internet.com/dethstryk/
"Are you telling me that Dolphins can masturbate? I'd like to see some
videos of that if you can find them."
- Clark West, alt.atheism (10.31.2001)