Hello,

There has been a small but heated discussion lately in alt.atheism
concerning the Church of Scientology.  I have refrained from posting
until now because I didn't think that that was the best forum for this
discussion and because it has taken me this long to calm down enough
to be coherent.  Here is my story.  I will follow it with a series
of easily supportable facts about the organization.

Last year a former friend of mine announced to me that he had joined
the Church of Scientology.  I knew nothing about this organization at
the time except that it was founded by pulp Sci Fi writer L. Ron Hubbard
and had been implicated in several criminal investigations.  I didn't
know the nature of these investigations, and I didn't know anything
about the 'Church' itself.  I immediately told my friend what I had
heard.  His response was "I didn't know that, but I'm sure we beat
those charges."  I then asked him for a description of his new belief
system, trying to be open minded.  He was unable to answer any of my
questions and simply recommended that I read _Dianetics_ by Hubbard.

So I went out and bought a copy of _Dianetics_ and started to read it.
I decided that whenever I had a question or a disagreement with the text,
I would underline the passage and write my comments in the margin.  I
don't have it with me right now, but the margins of my copy of the book
very quickly filled.  In the first 5 or 6 chapters (all the further
I got using this systematic criticism), there is not a single page with
less than three of my criticisms.  It is therefore pointless to detail them
here.  For a succint criticism of this atrocious work, I recommend reading
the book review published in Scientific American (Jan 1951).

I told my friend that I was afraid a great deal of his new religion was
bogus.  He told me to relax and to read another book.  Among other things
he showed me (with great pride) the 'Creed' of Scientology.  I pointed out
to him that the article in this creed which stated 'never fear to hurt another
in a just cause' was practically a call to violence against the church's
detractors.  He, of course, thought that this was preposterous.

At his invitation I went to a 'Flag' meeting.  This is really nothing
more than a recruiting exercise for the 'Sea Org,' an elite group of
Scientologist who get to ride around in boats and wear snappy uniforms.
I went with a few friends and my friend's mother who had taken an interest
in this strange case and my friend's mother who was, needless to say, worried
sick.  We were quickly shunted off into another room for people who were
'new to Dianetics.'  Quite a few people went with us.  Virtually all of
them claimed in voices loud enough so that we could hear that they knew
nothing about this, but they were keen to learn.  We then heard a standard
introductory lecture in Dianetics.  During the talk, a photographer came
into the room and painstakingly took pictures of me and each of my friends.
Fortunately we were able to ask questions at the end.  My friends and I
attacked several points he made and he defended himself by laughing at
our foolishness and telling us to read this or that book. I found it
interesting that several times when I had the speaker back peddaling his
way out of a contradiction, audience members quickly piped up with text book
answers.  They apparantly were more experienced than they had let on.  Later
I made an effort to eavesdrop on conversations that some of them were having
in the lobby.  Sure enough, they all had taken at least a few Scientology
courses at the 'org' as well as having undergone 'auditing'.  They were
all lying.  This incident (which was obviously engineered by the Church's
higher officers) is part of why I claim that every Scientologist I have
ever met has at one time or another blatantly lied to me.  We were able
to nail the speaker on only one point:  One of my friends is a wine expert
who told him that, contrary to his claims, no Hubbard ever had anything
to do with vineyards in Portugal.  This is apparantly part of the ficticious
biography of LRH which all Scientologists seem to believe.  (He also
wasn't a nuclear physicist or the first casualty of WWII....He WAS a
consumate liar.)  It turned out that the photographs must have been distributed
at least among the higher ranking 'org' officials because they all immediately
recognized me (even the people whom I had never met!) the next time I went
down to the 'org'.  I am a registered 'Suppressive Person'.

By this time, my friend's eyes had begun to show that classic 'glazed'
appearance which you hear about in stories about cults.  He was unable
to answer direct questions about the organization without first consulting
one of the many books which he carried with him.  When caught in a
contradiction there was always another book which explained it all.
He had utterly lost his sense of humour.  All of our meetings seemed to
focus around trying to convert me and my friends.  He was not able to
carry on a conversation about anything but Scientology (perhaps because
he had been told that we were Suppressive and should be watched).  He
had dropped out of school at the insistence of the 'org' so that he
could spend more time working for them.  He was told by them that a
college education was worthless and that he would be better off just
persuing a Scientology education.  It was at this point that we realized
that we in far over our head and needed help.

In Toronto, there is an organization called C.O.M.A. (the Council on Mind
Abuse); a non-profit organization which takes no money from any religious
or government agency in order to avoid any accusations of conflict of
interest.  They offer counseling to the family and friends of cult members,
and the cult members themselves if they are willing to listen.  My friends
and I (there were actually three of us involved in trying to help this
fellow), along with his parents contacted C.O.M.A. for help.  They were
very supportive.  They even supplied us with a superb counsellor without
charge (a former high ranking Scientologist who left the 'org' because
of the extreme corruption and criminal activities which are the Church's
real business).

As it turns out, my former friend had been spying on us.  We had been
followed, and all of our conversations, which he promised were in the strictest
confidence, were dutifully reported back to 'Ethics'.  He told them where
we all lived, and where we all worked.  All of us started noticing leaflets
in our mailboxes and under our doors advertising _Dianetics_.  The day when
he agreed to meet with the counsellor, he had been supplied with a pocket tape
recorder.  He hoped to record the conversation and catch this former
Scientologist revealing information which had been sealed in an old law suit
against the Church.  This would put C.O.M.A. in contempt of court and hopefully
(to the 'org' that is) bring to an end all such counselling.  (This intent
was verified by my culty friend later...it was not his idea, but was
being carefully orchestrated by the good folks in 'Ethics'.)  It failed because
no such information was revealed despite deliberately leading questions on his
part.  At every turn we acted in complete faith hoping to alert a friend to
the danger he was in.  At every turn he violated our trust and spied on us.
They had turned him into somebody whose friendship was no longer worth anything
to me.  Scientology changed my friend from an interesting, funny (if somewhat
unmotivated in life) person into a thoroughly untrustworthy lying jerk.

In the end, I confronted him about his lies.  He confessed but refused
to apologize, saying that he would do it again given the opportunity.
I told him that I was going to leave him to his fate.  I was tired of
being betrayed and lied to.  I added, though that if I ever saw any
evidence that the 'org' was attempting to recruit on campus, I would
come back and cause some REAL trouble.  No doubt in an effort to call
my bluff, my office was broken into and my home leafletted a few days
later.  I didn't cause my promised trouble.  I just called the police.
They agreed that all the evidence pointed to you-know-who.  There were
witnesses to my office break-in.  Yes, I have conclusive proof that it
was a Scientologist (not my ex-friend) who did it.  What happened to me
was trivial compared the death threats and murder attempts that the
counsellor from C.O.M.A. told me they had received (car brake wires
cut, mock funerals in front of peoples' homes, that sort of thing).
I have no interest in pressing charges because I don't care about the
poor 'div 6' flunky who did the B&E.  I would rather see the Church
of Scientology itself finally held responsible for it long criminal
legacy.

Stay tuned for another posting about Scientology.  The next one concern
some of the information which I uncovered while all of the above was
happening.

Kevin Dooley
(NB.  This is not my account; please do not send e-mail to this address)

I am glad that someone has posted the truth about this bogus cult.
After lurking here for a month or so, I now have to speak up.
After a friend of mine had gone through The Way, Int'l, I have
been on a crusade to rid the world of cults.  My own experiences
aren't as terrifying as yours, but have been limited to being
cornered on the breezeway by the Union at the University of Florida,
and subjected to having several members of some group trying to get
me to go to some "Bible Study" session, against my will.  I luckily
knew what was happening and finally threatened to use forceful
violence in order to make my departure from their "company."

The Way, Int'l is another cult, but they're very subtle.  You'll never
hear about them on the T.V., but they are bigger than Scientology.
My friend was lucky, his parents had enough money to save him.
here is the story:

A common target for cults are young, single, jewish males.  My friend,
call him 'Bob,' was attending a large (40,000 student) university
in Florida which shall remain nameless (the initials are UF).
He was older than I am, and I was still in High School at the time.
He was also alone, not uncommon for Freshmen in college.  He was
looking to make new friends, and that's where they stepped in.
In the cafeteria, it is easy to spot lonely people.  They eat alone,
normally looking around at others to see their faces, looking for
a smile, or a glance to meet their own.  He ate in the same place,
every day.  They saw their prey, and moved in for the kill, much
the same way that a great white shark circles before going in for
the kill.  One day, Bob was eating lunch and someone walked over
to him and asked him if he could join him.  Well, certainly Bob
was overjoyed, and eagerly made room at the table for his new
'friend.'  They talked as they ate, and they quickly found out
that they had several interests (this was no coincidence!).
They finished, and my friend parted company feeling refreshed.
At dinner, curiously enough, he ran into his new friend again.
This time, he had a female with him.  They ate and talked, and the
girl took a lot of interest in everything he did. (Wow!)
This went on for about a week and a half before they went to the
next phase.

Now that they were 'friends,' he trusted them.  More 'friends'
started joining them at meals, and they began studying together.
Summer was approaching, and people started talking about their
plans for their vacations.  His friends invited him to a "Sports
Camp."  It was going to be fun, it was going to be great.  Six weeks
of fun in the sun, playing baseball, etc. and getting a tan too.
(He later admitted that in six weeks, he played 15 minutes of
volleyball during that time.)

Much to his parents surprise, their quiet son had managed to make
new friends at school.  He was making good grades, and had earned
a trip to the mountains to have some fun.  They gladly paid for
his "vacation," and off he went to have some fun, and maybe get
into the pants of one or two girls as well.  When he got there,
there was no fun.  There was, however, lectures all day.  Lectures
on the world, religion, politics, all providing answers new to him.
No fun, no volleyball, no women (they separated men and women).
He found that his 'friends' were encouraging him to join this thing
called "The Way," an orginization devoted to changing the world.
The lectures were 4 hours long, and they ran 3 of them a day.
In between, they ate meals mostly consisting of potatoes, no protein,
some bread, and water.  SIX WEEKS of this weakened his objections,
and he found himself constantly bombarded by the preaching of this
new "Way."  Upon his return, his will was not his own.  They coerced
him into moving into this "boarding house."  It wasn't THAT expensive,
and this way he could live with his 'friends.'  They convinced him
(over time) that his parents were trying to keep him from having
a good time in life, and that they were evil.  In fact, all of
his relatives were evil, and that he didn't need them now that he
had his friends looking out for him.  He found them asking for part
of his earnings (he worked part time), and eventually they got him
to give them all of his money and his car.  His parents became
disturbed at his refusal to talk to them, and suggested he get
some help (at their expense).  Well, this just proved his 'friends'
points: obviously they didn't want him to have fun, and he wasn't
normal.  His mind already shrinking away to oblivion, he agreed,
and that was the last time he spoke to his parents for the next
year-and-a-half.

He dropped out of school, and started working for his friends.
They got all of his money, all of his time, and all of his effort.
His will became theirs, and he became yet another puppet at their
disposal.  He left Florida, and went to a lumber camp in the
northwest (Minnesota, if memory serves correct).  He worked for them
all day, and got low-protein, high-starch food for his labor.
He lost 30 lbs., and he lost all of his health.  His parents had
no idea where to find him, and they grew worried, even going
to the extreme, hiring a private detective to find him.  The PI
found out, through a combination of 'efforts,' where Bob was.
It was now up to his parents to either do something for him, or
else lose him forever.

They contacted an organization devoted to the destruction of cults
in Miami called the Central Agency.  CA has the 'resources' to
'extract' someone who has lost his will.  His parents dipped in to
their savings to get the $10,000 fee, but, they later reflected,
it was worth it to get their son back.  CA sent a van into the
lumber camp, under false pretenses.  They then located their
'victim,' and they drove over to where he was.  The door to the van
opened, and two of the largest people on the planet plucked his
weakened body from the earth.  They then ran through the gates,
destroying them with the re-inforced van, and drove him across
the state line.  Sure this broke a few laws, but it is necessary.

Then came the tough part.  The parents were flown in, but not allowed
to see their son.  Not like this.  He was held in a dark room,
much like the movies, with a bright light in his face.  Voices
beyond the glare spoke to him constantly, not letting him eat
or sleep for 48 hrs. until he broke.  Finally, he came around.
He realized what was happening, admitted his errors, and was let up.
His parents were allowed to see him, but he was under observation,
due to the fact that he now had horrible nightmares (a condition
that still persists to this day!).  He now lectures youngsters on
the evil which he survived.  His parents are glad to have him
back, and he is glad that his parents loved him, and also had the
resources to recover him from the depths to which he had sunken.

This should be a lesson to all you out there, and if I have saved just
one person out there from the fate that Bob suffered, my time has
not been a waste.  Scum like Scientology is just another way some
maniacal lunatic can part you from your money and you family.
I will spend at least part of my life trying to end their reign,
and if they want to find me, I'm in full view.  I know
how to deal with people of this sort.  I can always call CA and
we can end their terror wherever they may be.  Scientologists,
your time is coming...  terrorism can be beaten, and I, for one,
have the tools!

I know that I don't need anyone to tell me answers for which I seek.
No book ever written can provide for everything and everyone.
If even the 'Bible,' truly a great piece of literature, falls short
in its quest for all-capturing, then Hubbard and his followers
are suffering from critical short-sightedness.

DaVE

In article <XZ1Xs3w1...@cs.fau.edu> d...@cs.fau.edu (David Edward Weiss) writes:

Great story, very inspiring.  Just a quick question: what is The Way's
ostensible benefit?  Scientology claims to be able to cure you of
whatever ails you (be it physical or mental) and many people stick
with it because they are convinced they will become healthy if they
just apply themselves to the program diligently.  Of course, when it
doesn't work, they are taught that they screwed up and the program is
perfect...

So, what do you supposedly "get" out of being in The Way?

Uh oh, I better watch out!

This doesn't sound so great - substituting one form of conditioning
for another... or maybe I'm reading this wrong?

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+
|  |   |\       | j...@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, |
| \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make.       |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --+

In article <XZ1Xs3w1...@cs.fau.edu> d...@cs.fau.edu (David Edward Weiss) writes:

Great story, very inspiring.  Just a quick question: what is The Way's
ostensible benefit?  Scientology claims to be able to cure you of
whatever ails you (be it physical or mental) and many people stick
with it because they are convinced they will become healthy if they
just apply themselves to the program diligently.  Of course, when it
doesn't work, they are taught that they screwed up and the program is
perfect...

So, what do you supposedly "get" out of being in The Way?

Uh oh, I better watch out!

This doesn't sound so great - substituting one form of conditioning
for another... or maybe I'm reading this wrong?

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+
|  |   |\       | j...@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, |
| \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make.       |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --+

+---------------------- Is there any ESCAPE from NOISE? ---------------------+
|  |   |\       | j...@gaffa.mit.edu | ZIK ZAK - We make everything you need, |
| \|on |/rukman | -Fight The Power- | and you need everything we make.       |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------- --+

This is all pretty funny in a way.  At the moment I am completing a
Ph.D. in Geology at the University of California, Riverside.  My field
area is the San Jacinto Valley in Riverside County...just east of Riverside
California.  `Ron Hubbard' has a `compound' smack in the middle of my
field area.  Perhaps you will find what I know about this compound to
be interesting.

The compound has a very `nice' sounding name like `Golden Studios' or
something like that....I'll catch the offical sign next time I am down
there.  It is heavily gated and the guards are armed (semi-automatic
rifles). It is also heavily barbed in places.  Additionally there are signs
extending for a couple of miles around the compound that say STAY OUT!
etc. etc.. Now this is no big deal because there are a lot of places with
no tresspassing signs...but wait til you hear this...

The compound is flanked to the norteast by very high and steep mountains.
Actually the compound is located smack on top of the San Jacinto
Fault (another story, another time). To the southwest the
compound opens into the San Jacinto Basin.  The mountains to the northeast
also include public property...as such hang gliders use this area as
a launch to some pretty spectacular rides over the valley.  My brother
lived in Hemet for a while and a friend of his was up on the mountains
to catch a draft.  The lines for the Hubbard compound are not marked
in many of the most trecherous areas (were talking STEEP terrain).  My
brothers friend apparently stepped over the line a few 10's of yards.  There
is one small road (accessable by 4x4) which these people use to haul their
gear to the summit.  Within a few minutes 2 Hubbard `cops' and a truck
drove to the top (semi automatics and everything) and told my brothers
friend that he was tresspassing. My brother's friend (half clad in hang
gliding gear) apologized and told the guards he would immediately leave the
area.  Rather than escorting him off the property, theyu told him he would
be comming with them and that he would ride in the 3x3 foot tin `box'  
mounted in the back of their truck.  To say the least my brothers friend
refused and started to walk away from the compound...leaving his glider
and everything.  They fired in the air once and told him not to move or
they would shoot him.  He got in the truck.  They kept him over night in the
box. In the morning the sheriff came looking for my brothers friend as
two of his gliding companions reported him missing (fearing he ditched
somewhere and was hurt). The Sheriff then got a call from the compound and
said they had my brothers friend.  He was released to the Sheriff. He filed
a complaint (I don't know the outcome) and he was told by the Sheriff's
department to be careful in that area as `they have reason to believe
hikers have been murdered behind the compound'.  This is all too scary
for me.  To say the least I give a wide bearth to the compound. THese
Scientologists are crazy screwed up people.

Oh, the reason they knew my brothers friend was up their...They said
that he tripped their `alarms'?????

a...@trixie.caltech.edu