English class turned Sunday school
DogEGrrrl
studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
separation of church and state and all?
Paula
Dan Fake
> Hi. I am an atheist high school student. Recently, my English class has been
Hi, Paula. As you are probably aware, many religious folks
don't have a clue when it comes to what's in the bible. They
merely repeat the positives they've been brainwashed into
accepting as the word of god.
Despite your young age, since you've posted to alt.atheism
as an Atheist, I'm confident you are mature enough to
write a thesis on something to the effect of "Why the
Bible is Immoral Literature", using the following material
for reference/research. Good luck!
The X-Rated Bible : An Irreverent Survey of Sex
in the Scriptures, by Ben Edward Akerley
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0922915555
"Incest, rape, adultery, exhibitionism, prostitution,
homosexuality, abortion, mate swapping, bestiality -- it's
all there in the book held sacred by three of the world's
major religions."
The bible as a basis for morality? No, thanks. From
a post I made on September 16, 1999: Bible stuff (no
children allowed) ...
Far too much baggage for my taste and it's really poorly
written but what do you expect with an amalgamation of
absurdities assembled and interpolated over the centuries.
Certain portions of the bible have been used as justification
for murder, genocide, rape, torture, hate, book burnings,
and witch burnings.
All of these acts were committed by people? Yes. Would
they have occurred without the inspiration of the bible or
other such religious inspiration? No. I've got a stack of
close to 100 books to get through and the bible isn't one
of them although quite a few are about the bible.
If you want guilt-trips, slavery, fear, and hate, jump write
in - the bible is full of it.
A few examples follow, for reference and as a reminder
of the parts of the bible churches would like to forget:
Highlights from "Ken's Guide to the Bible", by Ken Smith
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0922233179
- - - excerpts, all from "Ken's Guide to the Bible" - - -
"Ken's Guide to the Bible" has been written to stand on its
own, but some readers may want to refer to an actual Bible
as they read it. Which Bible should you trust? Here is Ken's
"litmus test" verse for ascertaining a Bible's politics:
Ezekiel 23:20
New International Bible: "There she lusted after her lovers,
whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission
was like that of horses."
New Revised Standard Bible: "She lusted after her paramours
there, whose members were like those of donkeys and whose
emission was like that of stallions."
King James Bible: "She dotes upon their paramours, whose
flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue
of horses."
Good News Bible: "She was filled with lust for oversexed men
who had all the lustfulness of donkeys or stallions."
...
}}} aside from Dan Fake . . . Ken's icon notations are used
throughout Ken's Guide to the Bible, such as icons for
sex, god wrath, unbelievable, weird, death, anti-women,
and more; a few samples follow - buy Ken's book for
complete details and whatever you do, KEEP THE BIBLE
AWAY from your children . . . YIKES (unless, of course,
you have older children and wish to share with them the
aspects of the christian faith they won't hear in any church
that teaches the joy and love of the christian god [myth])! {{{
...
SEX
God's sons come down from heaven and have sex with
earth women. Genesis 6: 1-2, 4
Abraham is married to Sarah, his beautiful half-sister. He
curries favor (and grows rich) by allowing the Pharaoh of
Egypt to have sex with her. He tells the Pharaoh that Sarah
is his sister. He fails to mention that she is also his wife.
Genesis 12: 10-20
Jacob wants to have sex with lovely Rachel (his first cousin),
but her father demands seven years of labor in exchange.
Jacob does his time, and then on the wedding night Rachel's
father tricks Jacob into having sex with (and thereby marrying)
Leah, Rachel's ugly sister (another first cousin). Rachel's
father then gladly gives Rachel to Jacob as a second wife - in
exchange for seven more years of labor. Genesis 29: 15-30
Rachel and Leah battle for Jacob's favor by giving him their
maids as sex partners. Genesis 30: 1-11
Rachel makes a barter deal with Leah: a night of sex with
Jacob for some mandrake plants. Genesis 30: 14-16
Judah, one of Jacob's sons, has sex with his daughter-in-law
after she tricks him into thinking that she's a prostitute.
Genesis 38: 11-19
Sex hang-ups?
The book of The Proverbs, which are nuggets of God-approved
wisdom, was supposedly written by Solomon. Chapters 5-7
are devoted primarily to decrying the evils of lusty women and
of having sex with other men's wives. This discourse comes from
the most notorious polygamist in the Bible.
...
DEATH
You shall not permit a female sorcerer to live. Exodus 22:18
(also Leviticus 20:27)
Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death. Exodus 22:17
(also Leviticus 20:9)
Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put
to death. Exodus 22:19 (also Leviticus 20:15-16)
Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to
death. Exodus 31:15 (also 35:2)
One who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall be put to death.
Leviticus 24:16
Judas, according to the book of Acts, didn't hang himself after
he betrayed Jesus (see Matthew 27:3-5 for that account). He
outlived the Son of Man and bought a field with this thirty
pieces of silver. However, God's vengeance wasn't long in
coming: Judas exploded in the middle of his field, "and all
his bowels gushed out." Acts 1:18
...
References to Pregnant Women Being Ripped Open
By the Syrians. II Kings 8:12
By Menahem, the King of Israel. II Kings 15:16
By unidentified attackers, with God's approval. Hosea 13:16
By the Ammonites. Amos 1:13
...
References to Children Being Murdered
Medianite children, with God's approval. Numbers 31:17
Heshbonite children, with God's approval. Deuteronomy 2:34
Bashanite children, with God's approval. Deuteronomy 3:6
Israelite children. II Kings 8:12
Babylonian children, with God's approval. Psalms 137:9
Babylonian children, with God's approval. Isaiah 13:16
Beth-Arbelite children. Hosea 10:14
Israelite children, with God's approval. Hosea 13:16
Thebian children. Nahum 3:10
Bethlehemite children. Matthew 2:16
-end quote-
---
-Dan Fake, Atheist #1468 - Freethinker #2b - Humanist #2b2
Davidson
>
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> separation of church and state and all?
> Paula
Hi Paula,
Well, if you're brave, you can write about how this shepherd murders his
sheep (check out the flood story.) If the teacher
flips, you've got her.
Did you have to memorize parts of Shakespeare also? If so,
you can't complain about that part. The Bible is indeed
literature - that is all that it is.
I had the Bible in English class in HS 30 years ago. No
attempt to make it real, and the introduction to the one
we used was the first place I learned about the different
editors/authors of the bible (J, etc.) It was a major
impetus to be becoming an atheist.
Scott #1045
soope...@my-deja.com
davi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
> DogEGrrrl wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class
has been
> > studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly
as "literature".
> > We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also
had a quiz,
> > basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> > my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the
only way,
> > the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
considering
> > separation of church and state and all?
> > Paula
>
> Hi Paula,
>
> Well, if you're brave, you can write about how this shepherd murders
his
> sheep (check out the flood story.) If the teacher
> flips, you've got her.
I would say just write what you honestly think, you dont have
to go overboard trying to piss her off if thats not what you
really think. Be fair and objective.. then if she flips out
you are even more morally right.
-Scott
#1733
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mark Gradwell
DogEGrrrl wrote:
>
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student.
So was I.
> Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
Blatant prosletysing. Unconstitutional in your country. I take it you
are a U.S. citizen?
> We've also had a quiz,
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> separation of church and state and all?
Quite wrong. Try contacting a local or national atheist or humanist
organization if you really feel the need to teach your school a lesson.
They would be very pleased to hear from you if you wish to go down the
road of litigation.
That is if you really want the attention and aggravation. Have a good
read at these first:
http://www.AmericanAtheist.org/
("American Atheist" magazine webpage)
http://idt.net/~shiro4/atheistclub/inde.html
(Grand Blanc High School Atheist Club)
http://www.abarnett.demon.co.uk/atheism/index.html
(My own personal favourite site published by an individual)
> Paula
--
Yours,
Mark Gradwell
http://www.marks.diving.photos.mcmail.com
mailto:mark...@cwcom.net
aa#1478
Jack Thornton
soope...@my-deja.com writes:
>In article <388AB9...@worldnet.att.net>,
> davi...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>> DogEGrrrl wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class
>has been
>> > studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly
>as "literature".
>> > We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also
>had a quiz,
>> > basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>> > my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the
>only way,
>> > the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
>considering
>> > separation of church and state and all?
>> > Paula
>>
>> Hi Paula,
>>
>> Well, if you're brave, you can write about how this shepherd murders
>his
>> sheep (check out the flood story.) If the teacher
>> flips, you've got her.
> I would say just write what you honestly think, you dont have
>to go overboard trying to piss her off if thats not what you
>really think. Be fair and objective.. then if she flips out
>you are even more morally right.
>-Scott
>#1733
You can't get away from religion in teaching Anglo literature, it's worthless
to even try. Our earliest written stories (Circa Beowolf) are based on
the tradtion. As I recall, Great Grendle -- one of the monsters from
that story -- is descended from Cain, as are all other lesser beings like
fairies, trolls, and such. Trust me on this one, but keep in mind
that a lot of English teachers understand the difference between Realism
and Romanticism.
Jack
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Jack Thornton, a.a. # 1499
Night Editor
EAC News Service
BAAWA; EAC Decryption Squad #49; EAC Seti Search Team #10
(The unicorn you must eliminate is not Her Pinkness!)
Vance Incarnate
to take with it:
"Only sheep need a shepherd"
DogEGrrrl <doge...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000123014313...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
Patrick Alexander
: Hi. I am an atheist highschool student.
Woohoo, so am I.
: Recently, my English class has been
: studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
Yeah, my sophomore English class did that.
: We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
By all means do so. Say whatever you truly think of the matter,
and if she doesn't mind your opinion differing from hers then you're fine,
and if she does get pissed then she's obviously in the wrong and you're
put in an excellent position to try to do something about it.
: We've also had a quiz, basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As
: in "The lord is my...blank...."- fill in the blank.
Have you had to do anything similar for other literature?
: While not saying her way is the only way,
: the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
: separation of church and state and all?
Personally I think that, yeah, if she doesn't try to mandate
opinions in any way and if she actually *does* treat the Bible as
literature, then I wouldn't worry about it. The Bible *is* a very
important piece of literature, and Christianity in general is a major
(entirely too major, if you ask me) part of American culture, so studying
them in that light is certainly a very reasonable thing to do. If she
presents the Bible as "truth", tries to discourage un-Christian opinions,
etc, then she's quite obviously violating the first amendment and if I
were you I'd try to do something about it.
Patrick Alexander
"How do you know but ev'ry Bird that cuts the airy way,
Is an immense world of delight, clos'd by your senses five?"
--William Blake
Ted King
doge...@aol.com (DogEGrrrl) wrote:
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as
"literature".
> We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a
quiz,
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
considering
> separation of church and state and all?
> Paula
Does this literature book also have excerpts from books of other religions
as literature examples that your class has addressed in very much the same
way? If not, it would be appropriate of you to respectfully ask your
teacher why not. It would also be appropriate for you to suggest that this
be done or the teacher should refrain from doing so with Bible excerpts
until she is willing and able to do the same for all religious books. If
you choose to question your teacher you may want to enlist your parents as
a support in these efforts. If your teacher is reasonable and you and your
parents are reasonable and considerate, then the matter should be
resolvable.
Without knowing the particulars it is difficult to assess the
appropriateness the essay assignment and questions that require memorizing
Psalm 23, but on face value they certainly do seem to be designed as much
to advance the teacher's preferred religion as they are for legitimate
literature curriculum purposes. Having students write an essay comparing
god to a shepherd? - wouldn't it be a much better assignment to study
similes and metaphors used in different religious texts and then write an
essay comparing them? I also have a hard time imagining the literary value
in having students being able to fill in blanks on particular quotes from
the Bible.
Ted King
Euri
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has
been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as
"literature".
> We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a
quiz,
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only
way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
considering
> separation of church and state and all?
> Paula
Growing up in Ireland, I was made to read large parts of the bible. And I
think I am better because of it. A huge amount of western literature has
~much~ to do with the bible, and if we understand the bible then we can
better understand more contemporary authors. It was a class called
'Theological and Spiritual Literature" and the bible was obviously the main
focus because of where I lived. My advice is to rile up your teacher by
showing all the bibles flaws, but absorbing how the bible is written;)
--
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
<><><>
One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making
the darkness conscious
*Carl Jung*
Atheist #1712
ICQ 21982971
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Stage/2482/
William Barwell
DogEGrrrl <doge...@aol.com> wrote:
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
>separation of church and state and all?
>Paula
No, it ain't right. Tell yer parents and principle.
Studying the Bible as literature is one thing, proselytizing
under that claim of study of literature is another.
If you get resistance, (you will) mention the ACLU,
Americans United for Seperation, and stick to your guns.
Contact both of these organizations if you want to
take this to the mat.
****************************************************************
Testing the Bible FAQ
Christianity is one of the few religions that can actually
be tested scientifically. Testing claims is the very essence
of science and is why science works so well. Testing discards
errors. The New Testament represents Jesus as making claims that
can readily be tested. Below are four NT texts that are testable,
and that fail such testing, showing that Christianity cannot be
true.
*******************************************************************
Mark 11:22-3
22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have Faith in God.
23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto
this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the
sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe
that these things he saith shall come to pass; he shall have
whatsoever he saith.
Jesus promises obvious and spectacular miracle working abilities
to those who "shall not doubt in his heart". But it does not work.
Nobody gets "whatever he saith" merely from lacking doubt.
Nobody moves mountains or similar such tricks.
********************************************************************
Matthew 21:21
21 And all things, whatsoever you ask in prayer, believing,
you shall recieve.
Nobody gets all they ask in prayer, as promised by Jesus.
*********************************************************************
John 14:12-14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me,
the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works shall
he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that
the Father may be glorified in the son.
14 If ye ask anything in my name, I will do it.
Nobody changes water to wine, finds his tax money in a fish,
feeds thousands with a few fishes and loaves, walks on water.
Much less betters these works. Nobody gets "whatever ye shall
ask" despite this promise, even asking in the name of Jesus.
***********************************************************************
Matthew 18:18-19
19 Verily I say unto you, if two of you shall agree on earth
as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done
for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am
in the midst of them.
No two Christians get "any thing they shall ask" despite this
solemn promise from Jesus.
***********************************************************************
These are easily testable and unmistakable promises from
Jesus, alledged son of God, as found readily in the New
Testament. These promises are not attainable. Thus Jesus
was wrong, the New Testament is wrong, all of Christianity
is based on errors. If one cannot trust the solemn promises
of Jesus that can readily be tested, obviously, nobody can
trust those not so readibly testable, such as the existance
of heaven or the claim only through Jesus can one get there.
Seeing how badly readily testable claims of Jesus fail, it is
safe to assume all other promises are equally false, equally
erroneous.
Christianity is simply another superstition, nothing more.
These simple verses, easily tested, prove it.
William C. Barwell 4-6-96
************************************************************************
Paul Wenthold
>
> if you haven't already done your essay, here's a possible title, and angle
> to take with it:
>
> "Only sheep need a shepherd"
>
Good answer. I was going to suggest something
similar, using the theme that if God is a
shepherd, then people are sheep. Then spend
the entire essay talking about how sheep are
the stupidest animals in the world. Conclude
that God is a shepherd only for stupid people.
paul
DJ Nozem
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
You didn't forget to compare believers to bleating sheep, I hope.
>We've also had a quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
>separation of church and state and all?
I don't know, might be a borderline case, fill in "the lord is my
......" isn't the most fortunate quote from the bible, it's loaded to
anyone who isn't christian. You could intentionally fill in something
offensive, or give some commentary on questions you dislike, I did
that quite often when I was locked in battle with my teachers on high
school....... ah, those beautiful days when I cared little about my
marks...
The bible most certainly doesn't qualify for English literature,
in any way.
>Paula
Existence is futile - Everything is going to be -
Nothing was meant to be - We give meaning to eachother
DJ Nozem #1465 zwag...@multiweb.nl
SyNiC
doge...@aol.com says...
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> separation of church and state and all?
>
*shrug* I had to read all the Greek Myths, so I guess the Bible is the
same thing. As long as your teacher isn't proselytizing I don't see the
big deal. The Bible, after all, is a fascinating work of fiction.
--
SyN
A.A.#1722
Don Kresch
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23
You can get the ACLU in on that.
>. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
>separation of church and state and all?
Bring it to the attention of the principal. What she is doing is clearly
wrong.
Don
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, EAC Decryption squad
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
Decimal
> DogEGrrrl wrote:
>
>> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has
>> been studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as
>> "literature". We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
>
>
>> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the
>> only way, the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this
>> right, considering separation of church and state and all?
>
> ......" isn't the most fortunate quote from the bible, it's loaded to
> anyone who isn't christian. You could intentionally fill in something
> offensive, or give some commentary on questions you dislike, I did
> that quite often when I was locked in battle with my teachers on high
> school....... ah, those beautiful days when I cared little about my
> marks...
"The lord is my _CRUTCH_"? =)
EGirl, be sure to let us know what happens!
-- Decimal [a.a. #482]
"An eye for an eye guarantees nothing but blindness."
-- Charles Xavier, X-MEN comics
The correct prefix for the return address is 'marble'.
Brian Westley
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
>separation of church and state and all?
No. You in Florida? Check out
http://www.pfaw.org/issues/liberty/florida-bible.shtml
Don't forget, shepherds keep sheep to be clipped and eaten.
---
Merlyn LeRoy
Starguard
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> separation of church and state and all?
> Paula
I don't know what the curriculum is like at your school, but when I was in high
school (not so many years ago) we also learned about parts of bible (some Genesis)
in English class. I never really thought much about it at the time since we were
previously doing Greek Mythology; I just presumed the bible section was Christian
mythology. Looking back, I should have put some sort of disclaimer on the bottom
of the quizzes just to see what the reaction would be: "The above answers do not
in any way indicate my belief (or lack of) in the material, but only my knowledge
of the subject."
Starguard
Al Klein
wrote:
>Quite wrong. Try contacting a local or national atheist or humanist
>organization if you really feel the need to teach your school a lesson.
Or the local ACLU.
--
Al - Unnumbered Atheist #infinity
aklein at villagenet dot com
Davidson
>
> On 23 Jan 2000 06:43:13 GMT, doge...@aol.com (DogEGrrrl) wrote:
>
> > Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> >studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> >We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
>
>
> >basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> >my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> >the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> >separation of church and state and all?
>
> ......" isn't the most fortunate quote from the bible, it's loaded to
> anyone who isn't christian. You could intentionally fill in something
> offensive, or give some commentary on questions you dislike, I did
> that quite often when I was locked in battle with my teachers on high
> school....... ah, those beautiful days when I cared little about my
> marks...
>
> in any way.
I respectfully disagree. The King James Bible does - though it
was not originally in English, the translation seems to qualify.
Also, so many plots, titles and references in English literature
come from the Bible, that a knowledge of it is necessary to be
literate.
The telling point would be if the teacher made students treat
it as the truth. If it was treated in the same way as a Greek
myth, there would be nothing wrong with reading it.
Scott #1045
Michelle Martin
nxy...@ivyyntrarg.pbz wrote:
When I was in high school, Bible as Literature (and Mythology, for that
matter) was an elective. I took both voluntarily, but I don't think I
would have been as sanguine if the bible, in particular, was part of a
*required* class, and I would have been even more leery if the teacher
told everyone what her religious preferences were in relationship to it.
I'd have been concerned about writing my true feelings in an essay on any
of the subjects, for fear of annoying the teacher involved. When I took
the Bible as Lit class, the teacher went out of her way to avoid any signs
of religiousity (unfortunately, many of the students didn't), which is as
it should be.
Michelle Martin, #1474
--
A man who is always ready to believe what is told him will
never do well. -- Petronius
Matthias Weiss
>
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
> basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
> the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
> separation of church and state and all?
Paula,
If what you say is true, I'd say it's a violation. If you had been free
to voice your own opinion about the text (make a case for or against
it), I'd have said it's borderline. However, it seems to me that you had
to interpret a Christian text within the context of Christian
ideology...and that's clearly a no-no because it "establishes" Christian
religion.
Why don't you go to http://www.au.org and drop them a line? They're
always happy to have a lawyer send a letter to a bible thumping public
high school.
Cheers,
Matthias.
CC: Paula
Budikka
"Recently, my English class has been studying parts of the bible in out
literature book, supposedly as "literature". We've had to write an essay
comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz, basically requiring us
to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is my...blank...."- fill in the
blank."
Paula - this seems somewhat suspicious to me, but if you are going to start
anything, you need to be aware that you are going to be reviled for taking a
stand against religious instruction in school, even when you are completely in
the right. The first thing is to be sure of the ground you are standing on,
and consider whether you are over-reacting.
In my opinion, the best thing you could do is ask this teacher if you will be
getting a chance to study other religious literature in class, such as the
Koran (the holy book of Islam) and the Bhagavad Gita (a part of the
Mahabharata, the holy book of the Hindus), and so on. These are works of the
same stature as the Bible, and this might help test if your teacher is open to
a variety of such literature or id she has some sort of agenda to preach
Christianity in her class.
If she does not plan on covering any other religious literature, then get
access to a Bible concordance, or use an online Bible to search for the many
passages in the Bible which you never see posted outside churches: episodes of
mass slaughter authorized by god, stories of Jesus telling people to take up a
sword and deny their family, things along those lines. Write down some good
quotes with chapter and verse and ask your teacher if you can cover these in
class! If you need assistance with this, post again in alt.atheism or email
me.
Does your school publish a curriculum - a description of the kinds of things
you ought to be studying during your current year? This might offer some sort
of guidance as to what is to be taught and what approach is to be taken.
Does your school have a published policy on separation of church and state?
This might be a way to check if your teacher may have overstepped the bounds.
Is there any evidence that your teacher pursued this book in a manner different
from the way she pursued other books you have covered? If she did not, then
even if she was pushy about it, it would be hard to make any real case against
her.
This is the beginning of the time, Paula, when you really have to understand
that life is not a series of black and white issues, but some very muddy grey
ones! Tread cautiously and learn everything you can each step of the way.
Budikka
Patrick Alexander
: *******************************************************************
: Mark 11:22-3
: 22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have Faith in God.
: 23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto
: this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the
: sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe
: that these things he saith shall come to pass; he shall have
: whatsoever he saith.
:
: Jesus promises obvious and spectacular miracle working abilities
: to those who "shall not doubt in his heart". But it does not work.
: Nobody gets "whatever he saith" merely from lacking doubt.
: Nobody moves mountains or similar such tricks.
Simple. No one's ever moved a mountain merely by asking it to
move? Well, obviously no one truly without doubt in his heart has ever
asked a mountain to move.
: ********************************************************************
: Matthew 21:21
: 21 And all things, whatsoever you ask in prayer, believing,
: you shall recieve.
:
: Nobody gets all they ask in prayer, as promised by Jesus.
Or no one who's asked for something in prayer truly believed.
: John 14:12-14
: 12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me,
: the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works shall
: he do; because I go unto my Father.
: 13 And whatever ye shall ask in my name, that I will do, that
: the Father may be glorified in the son.
: 14 If ye ask anything in my name, I will do it.
:
: Nobody changes water to wine, finds his tax money in a fish,
: feeds thousands with a few fishes and loaves, walks on water.
: Much less betters these works. Nobody gets "whatever ye shall
: ask" despite this promise, even asking in the name of Jesus.
Can you prove that anyone who believeth in "God" has asked
anything in Jesus' name?
: Matthew 18:18-19
: 19 Verily I say unto you, if two of you shall agree on earth
: as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done
: for them of my Father which is in heaven.
: 20 For where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am
: in the midst of them.
:
: No two Christians get "any thing they shall ask" despite this
: solemn promise from Jesus.
I think you're coming to the wrong conclusion here. Rather than
proving that the Bible is contradictory, the above passages prove merely
that Christians do not, in fact, exist. If Christians did exist they'd
obviously be able to accomplish the above feats. No one has accomplished
the above feats. Therefore Christians do not exist.
Patrick Alexander
"Lover of the black and white - - - - - it's your first night.
The Passion Play / goes all the way / spoils your insight."
--Jethro Tull
Panama Floyd
>From: doge...@aol.com (DogEGrrrl)
>Date: Sun, 23 January 2000 01:43 AM EST
>Message-id: <20000123014313...@ng-fi1.aol.com>
>
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as
>"literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd.
Hmm..an essay! Teach has made a mistake. Mention in the essay that the only
reason people keep sheep around is to use them (shear the fur for warmth, or
kill them, and use the meat for food) for personal gain.
Basically, just put forth the thought that being a sheep is not a good thing,
from the sheep's point of view...and if "god" is a shepherd, then humans should
be smart enough to run away from before it's too late for them!
We've also had a
>quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
>considering
>separation of church and state and all?
No, it's not right.
Problem is...even though sep of C&S is there on paper for everyone to see, the
folks actually elected to the US government these days ignores it.
If you don't need the quiz score to pass the class, just say the lard iz my
"nightmare".
You're not alone. I highly reccomend
http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/intro.html to begin with. Look around at
the rest of the place, lots of good stuff there.
Also, try http://www.atheists.org/
The "Flashline" will have stories that show just how hard it is to actually
seperate Crutch & State.
-Panama Floyd, Atlanta
"The altar cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain, Notebook, 1898
I'm the EAC, and I vote!!
chibiabos
<davi...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> DogEGrrrl wrote:
> >
> > Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
> > studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as
> > "literature".
> > We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a
> > quiz,
> > basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
> > my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only
> > way,
> > the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right,
> > considering
> > separation of church and state and all?
> > Paula
>
> Hi Paula,
>
> Well, if you're brave, you can write about how this shepherd murders his
> sheep (check out the flood story.) If the teacher
> flips, you've got her.
>
> Did you have to memorize parts of Shakespeare also? If so,
> you can't complain about that part. The Bible is indeed
> literature - that is all that it is.
Yes, but compared to almost any other book ever published, the bible is
piss-poor literature.
-chib
--
wild(at our first)beasts uttered human words
--our second coming made stones sing like birds--
but o the starhushed silence which our third's
--e.e. cummings
Carl Christensen
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
The same thing happened to me in college English; Georgia Tech, 1983,
my sophomore year. I guess that's equivalent to a high school class!
Anyway, we were supposed to be studying Western Literature and the
bible got tossed in. I realize that it is old literature, but the
teacher and class came to it from a fundie point, where it wasn't just
read and discussed as literature. Everybody had to do a speech about
a biblical topic and probably half the class was rabid proseletyzing.
But I just picked out the nasty bits and spoke about them and what a
nasty book it was (e.g. dashing babies brains against rocks, raping &
pillaging, etc).
What's the rest of the students in the class like? If you're not too
psyched out by peer pressure (e.g. it is high school after all, and
perhaps there are a lot of fundies in the class that would go nuts)
maybe you could raise your hand and ask if all this bible stuff is
really necessary. Or ask if everyone will be studying the Koran next
or the Bhagavad Gita (equal time). Or ask for the class to watch
"Contact" or something! :-)
Cyclone Ambiguous
>my sophomore year. I guess that's equivalent to a high school class!
>Anyway, we were supposed to be studying Western Literature and the
>bible got tossed in. I realize that it is old literature, but the
>teacher and class came to it from a fundie point, where it wasn't just
>read and discussed as literature. Everybody had to do a speech about
>a biblical topic and probably half the class was rabid proseletyzing.
>But I just picked out the nasty bits and spoke about them and what a
>nasty book it was (e.g. dashing babies brains against rocks, raping &
>pillaging, etc).
Out of curiousity, what was the class' reaction?
Cyclone Ambiguous
In prophecy of FF9's main character
Sadist in Chief of the EAC and High Bakesale Coordinator
AGFF Neutral Guy (think of me as Switzerland, kay?)
Wondering why AOL limits me to a 254 character sig in ngs
Emma Pease
>doge...@aol.com (DogEGrrrl) posts:
>
>"Recently, my English class has been studying parts of the bible in out
>literature book, supposedly as "literature". We've had to write an essay
>comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz, basically requiring us
>blank."
...
>In my opinion, the best thing you could do is ask this teacher if you will be
>getting a chance to study other religious literature in class, such as the
>Koran (the holy book of Islam) and the Bhagavad Gita (a part of the
>Mahabharata, the holy book of the Hindus), and so on. These are works of the
>same stature as the Bible, and this might help test if your teacher is open to
>a variety of such literature or id she has some sort of agenda to preach
>Christianity in her class.
Actually I would check whether Greek/Roman mythology is covered and
treated the same way. Though the Koran and Bhagavad Gita are of
similar status as religious works, they have had relatively little
influence so far on English literature. Greek/Roman mythologies are a
major influence.
Another thing is to check how the history of the Bible is treated.
For example, does the teacher discuss the four source theory for the
first five books of the Bible ('Who wrote the Bible' by Richard
Elliott Friedman is interesting reading and gives a layman's
introduction to the theory though note the author does express some of
his own ideas that are not necessarily shared by his peers in the
field). Does she discuss the different translations (for instance
look up an old and influential Scottish version of psalm 23,
http://www.cgmusic.com/workshop/smpsalter/psalm-23.htm ). Are you
shown Biblical influences in other works of English literature (or
art) in particular, since you seem to be covering it in depth,
references to Psalm 23 both negative and positive[1]?
Emma
[1] For fun, read 'Small Gods' by Pratchett; he has a brief reference
to shepherds and gods (and it isn't positive towards gods who want to
act like shepherds).
--
\----
|\* | Emma Pease Net Spinster
|_\/ Die Luft der Freiheit weht
Clothaire
> Hi. I am an atheist highschool student. Recently, my English class has been
>studying parts of the bible in out literature book, supposedly as "literature".
>We've had to write an essay comparing god to a shepherd. We've also had a quiz,
>basically requiring us to've memorized Psalm 23. As in "The lord is
>my...blank...."- fill in the blank. While not saying her way is the only way,
>the teacher has told us her beliefs. My question is: Is this right, considering
>separation of church and state and all?
>Paula
>>>>>>>>>>>>
As long as you know the difference, don't worry about it. Just treat
it in your own mind as a class in writing fiction. You are going to
run into a lot of this in the future--just learn to deal with it.
Leave the heavy lifting on 'The Separation of Church and State' to
others more in a position to do something about it.
Clothaire #1392
Davidson
>
> chibiabos <chib...@SPAMBLOCK.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> =Yes, but compared to almost any other book ever published,
> =the bible is piss-poor literature.
>
> "Yargo" by Jacqueline Susann is the worst SF book -- possibly the
> worst book in any genre -- I've ever read. Of course, she probably
> had a deadline :-)
Shoot, I'm going to have to look for that one. I read an article
about her in the NY Times (a movie about her is coming out) and
if the article is even a bit true, she didn't write badly
because of a deadline!
Scott #1045
> __________________________________________
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> Mike Smith | aa #1164 | ULC Ordained Minister
>
> Air Traffic Controller - EAC Lunar Oil Rig
> __________________________________________
> ¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
> I would never die for my beliefs. I might be wrong.
> -Bertrand Russell
Carl Christensen
Ambiguous) wrote:
>>But I just picked out the nasty bits and spoke about them and what a
>>nasty book it was (e.g. dashing babies brains against rocks, raping &
>>pillaging, etc).
>
>Out of curiousity, what was the class' reaction?
Well the professor and class weren't raving mad or anything. If
anything they just seemed stunned as if they couldn't believe there
was somebody who wasn't a Christian. I just read choice nasty bits of
the bible so you figure they would have come across it sometime but
they seemed totally confused.
It was pretty absurd though and it was weird being in this
conservative, mostly male engineering school (Ga Tech) in the Bible
Belt that pretty much fed the defense industry during the Ronald
Reagan years. I should have gone to Berkeley in the 60's and here I
was in a conservative college during some of the most conservative
years! :-)
There were some good people there but there were so many babbling
fundies that paid lip service to Jesus & the bible and went happily
off to make nuclear weapons and "Star Wars" defense systems. One of
my roommates was a fundie who tried to lecture me about Jesus
everynight and his job was to slice up cute little doggies for
scientific research. He also had some cutesy religious poster hanging
in the room, so to be fair I hung up Playboy Playmate of the Month
October 1984 centerfold and he was so upset he had his parents' call
me to say how evil it was (a naked women standing there smiling is
evil?) One funny thing is the guys in the suite next door were also
acting like southern fundie-bots but one of them admitted to me before
the semester was over that he just said all that stuff to "get in his
girlfriends panties (a minister's daughter)!"
chibiabos
> chibiabos <chib...@SPAMBLOCK.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> =Yes, but compared to almost any other book ever published,
> =the bible is piss-poor literature.
>
> "Yargo" by Jacqueline Susann is the worst SF book -- possibly the
> worst book in any genre -- I've ever read. Of course, she probably
> had a deadline :-)
Jacqueline Susanne wrote an SF novel? Is this the same JS who wrote
_Valley of the Dolls_?
Michelle Malkin
>chibiabos <chib...@SPAMBLOCK.earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>= <sm...@rah.ssl> wrote:
>=>
>=> =Yes, but compared to almost any other book ever published,
>=> =the bible is piss-poor literature.
>=>
>=> "Yargo" by Jacqueline Susann is the worst SF book -- possibly the
>=> worst book in any genre -- I've ever read. Of course, she probably
>=> had a deadline :-)
>=
>=Jacqueline Susanne wrote an SF novel? Is this the same JS who wrote
>=_Valley of the Dolls_?
>
>Sure is. At the risk of sounding like a bigot, there aren't many female
>SF writers. This could be *the* book that discouraged publishers :-)
I wouldn't call you a bigot; merely misinformed. There are
tons of female sf and fantasy writers. At this point, there
is probably close to a fifty/fifty count. And, there may
even be more female fantasy writers than male. I wonder if
anyone has a web site with information about this. All I
know is that I've watched the number of female science
fiction and fantasy writers increase by leaps and bounds
over the last 30 years.
Just going through my own collection of sf and fantasy
books, I see: Lynne Abby, Marion Zimmer Bradley (who
recently passed away), Lois McMaster Bujold, C.J. Cherryh,
Mercedes Lackey, Andre Norton, Usula K. LeGuinn, Anne
McCaffrey, Nancy Springer, Joan Cox, Barbara Hambly,
Nancy Harding, Diane Duane, Tanya Huff, Elizabeth A. Lynn,
Tanith Lee, Jody Lynn Nye, Elizabeth H. Boyer, Ardath
Mayhar, Elizabeth Moon, Elizabeth Scarborough, Ann Rice,
Marta Randall, Paula Volsky, Evangeline Walton, Joy Chant,
Vonda McIntyre,Patricia Wrede, Pamela Dean, Esther Freisner,
Josepha Sherman, Katherine Kurtz, Diana Paxson, Jane Yolen,
R.A. McAvoy, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, Suzette Hadin Elgin,
Joanna Russ (is she still alive?), Joy Clayton, Marcia
Bennett, Phyllis Eisenstein, Ellen Guon, Sherri S. Tepper &
Jennifer Roberson. I can even think of a few writers who
came out of fandom - Mary Schaub, Susan Casper, Susan
Matthews and Camille Bacon-Smith.
These are just some of the ones from my collection. I know
that there are many,many more.
to name a few.
Michelle Malkin (Mickey)
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
aa atheist/agnostic list #1 ULC #3 ~EAC list #1
High Priestess Bastet of the Non-Church Temple of Si & Am
EAC Bible Thumper Thumper BAAWA Knight Who Says SPONG!
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
All religions united with governments are more or less inimical to
liberty. All separated from government are compatible with liberty.
Henry Clay - Speech in the U.S. House of Representatives
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin
>Michelle Malkin <malk...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>=Just going through my own collection of sf and fantasy
>=books, I see: Lynne Abby, Marion Zimmer Bradley (who
>=recently passed away), Lois McMaster Bujold, C.J. Cherryh,
>=Mercedes Lackey, Andre Norton, Usula K. LeGuinn, Anne
>=McCaffrey, Nancy Springer, Joan Cox, Barbara Hambly,
>=Nancy Harding, Diane Duane, Tanya Huff, Elizabeth A. Lynn,
>=Tanith Lee, Jody Lynn Nye, Elizabeth H. Boyer, Ardath
>=Mayhar, Elizabeth Moon, Elizabeth Scarborough, Ann Rice,
>=Marta Randall, Paula Volsky, Evangeline Walton, Joy Chant,
>=Vonda McIntyre,Patricia Wrede, Pamela Dean, Esther Freisner,
>=Josepha Sherman, Katherine Kurtz, Diana Paxson, Jane Yolen,
>=R.A. McAvoy, Chelsea Quinn Yarbro, Suzette Hadin Elgin,
>=Joanna Russ (is she still alive?), Joy Clayton, Marcia
>=Bennett, Phyllis Eisenstein, Ellen Guon, Sherri S. Tepper &
>=Jennifer Roberson. I can even think of a few writers who
>=came out of fandom - Mary Schaub, Susan Casper, Susan
>=Matthews and Camille Bacon-Smith.
>
>Wow. Sorry. The only one that came to mind was Anne
>McCaffrey. I have to get out more.
It's just about impossible to read all the fantasy and sf
books coming out nowadays. There are too darn many
of them by both men and women writers. (What a compaint! )
:-)
And, the above list doesn't include many female sf & fantasy
writers who have passed away such as Leigh Bracket and
C.L. Moore. And, I forgot to place Olivia Butler in the long
list above.
Johnny Bravo
>Sure is. At the risk of sounding like a bigot, there aren't many female
>SF writers. This could be *the* book that discouraged publishers :-)
Offhand I can't think of a memorable one other than Ursula K LeGuin.
The Left Hand of Darkness was pretty good. SF isn't the only category
where this is true, how many of the classical works were written by women,
or westerns? It was only recently (in historical terms), that people
would even care what a woman wrote. Much less care enough to make them a
famous writer. It would be very hard to establish your fame when you are
competing with the likes Clarke, Heinlein and Asimov. <g>
Just a quick survey of my bookshelves reveals a rather singular lack of
female writers. Other than the classical three above, I recommend the
following authors and works from my collection. (Just the ones I can spot
without getting up and moving them around. :)
Alan Dean Foster - "Nor Crystal Tears" and "Sentenced to prism."
Piers Anthony - "On a Pale Horse." (then the rest of the series).
William Gibson - "Neruomancer"
Steven Barnes - "Street Lethal" and "Gorgon Child"
George Alec Effinger - "When Gravity Fails"
And for short stories, try "For I am a Jealous People" by Lester Del
Ray, most amusing and interestingly on topic for the group. :)
Best Wishes,
Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo
wrote:
>me to say how evil it was (a naked women standing there smiling is
>evil?)
LOL, she was just as "god" made her, and wearing nothing more than "god"
gave her. How could a fundy find a problem with that? :)
Best Wishes,
Johnny Bravo
DogEGrrrl
other religious texts. The teacher said that we weren't because they didn't
have much influence on British literature (what the course is on). However, the
bible and christianity were major influences on British writers.
Paula
Therion Ware
alt.atheism:
Richard Burton wrote a few things I diligently studied in school.
--
"Do Unto Others As You Would Have Them Do Unto You."
- Attrib: Pauline Reage.
.......
HELL? <http://www.city-of-dis.co.uk/entry/hell.html>
Inexpensive video to mpeg-1 conversion? See: <http://www.video2cd.co.uk>
Jack Thornton
doge...@aol.com (DogEGrrrl) writes:
>Hi again. Another sudent asked if we were going to be reading the Koran or
>other religious texts. The teacher said that we weren't because they didn't
>have much influence on British literature (what the course is on). However, the
>bible and christianity were major influences on British writers.
>Paula
Well, teacher is correct. Sorry, but it's true. I would argue that over 90%
of Anglo lit comes to us from the bible. Not much of a surprise, when you
understand the bible as literature.
However, you might get some insight into this problem if you think in terms
of stories rather than literature. I won't post it here, but there's not
much difference between the *Shinto* goddess of the sun and our god of the
son.
What you need to think of is that in literature, we're dealing with symbols.
Symbols are everything. The difference between a cross and a hanging, looped
roped is that the xians have a better PR shop than the EAC. But then the
EAC, if it really existed, is just getting organized.
All gods die and are then born again, because--hey! Who wants to die? Right?
Try to understand the person, not the shit he puts out.
Some people just don't understand the difference between symbols and
fact.
Hope this helps.
Jack
Jack Thornton, a.a. # 1499
Night Editor
EAC News Service
BAAWA; EAC Decryption Squad #49; EAC Seti Search Team #10
(The unicorn you must eliminate is not Her Pinkness!)
stoney
wrote:
I would suggest 'Andre' Norton-born Alice Mary Norton. "The Time
Traders" for one and the sequels. She also writes Fantasy and has
written at least one Civil War novel.
]> Best Wishes,
]> Johnny Bravo
Stoney
jbur...@indiana.edu
literature, but the selections at hand are a bit skewed. Perhaps a
study of irony as it relates to the story of Moses? Wherein he climbs
off the mountain, commandments in hand, and proceeds to incite hald
the crowd to slay the other half (including kin)...kinda ironic, in
that Thou Shalt Not Murder and Respect Thy Parents were still hot off
the press....
Jim
On Tue, 25 Jan 2000 18:59:02, jt...@unicorn.psu.edu (Jack Thornton)
wrote:
Tom Murray
<bravo...@usa.net> wrote:
Might it have been the airbrushing he was complaining about?
--
Please remove "u." to reply. EAC Nit Picking Division
Tom Murray Tweezer Specialist
Jack Thornton
jbur...@indiana.edu writes:
<Previously post to Jim via E-mail>
>Well now, the use of the Bible is certainly valid in a study of
>literature, but the selections at hand are a bit skewed. Perhaps a
>study of irony as it relates to the story of Moses? Wherein he climbs
>off the mountain, commandments in hand, and proceeds to incite hald
>the crowd to slay the other half (including kin)...kinda ironic, in
>that Thou Shalt Not Murder and Respect Thy Parents were still hot off
>the press....
>Jim
Hey! This works for me, Jim. My point was if we toss the bible out
of the classroom, we toss a big hunk of allusion with it. Now, what
a person makes of that background to Anglo Lit is up to the individual. In
the instance case, we probably do have an English teacher who's crossed
the line between literature and preaching.
Cheers,