Young Activists In St. Petersburg Protest Against Blasphemous "Art"
Sound of Trumpet
http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
25 July 2006, 13:26
Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
of a reputed gallerist
St. Petersburg, July 25, Interfax - Molodaya Gvardia - Petrograd
activists held a protest action against Marat Gelman, a reputed
gallerist, who they believe is 'a friend of fascists and
blasphemers'.
They placed reproductions of some of his pictures at Malaya
Konyushennaya Street, calling passersby to coat them with spray paint,
the Vecherniy Peterburg daily has reported on Tuesday.
One of the pictures features the face of Jesus Christ and a bottle of a
popular drink and carries the inscription 'Coca Cola is my blood'.
On another one, the Saviour lights a candle together with Alexander
Pushkin.
According to the newspaper, 'the inscriptions and drawings on some of
the pictures are simply indecent for a newspaper to retell'.
'It is not even avant-guard, but pure blasphemy', the organizers of
the action believe.
The Molodaya Gvardia activists in St. Petersburg intend to continue
fighting with Gelman's creative work and hope that after their action
'people will at least forebear to take their children to Gelman's
shows'.
omare...@aol.com
hysterical dipshits on the left would blow themselves up :)
Cary Kittrell
> Of course if "blasphemous" paintings of Muslimes were shown, the
> hysterical dipshits on the left would blow themselves up :)
"of course", hmmmm?
Here's an "of course: for you:
Of course when "Free Inquiry", probably the leading magazine for
secular humanists, pointedly re-printed those infamous cartoons
of Muhammed, it was stores such as Wal-mart who refused to
carry that issue.
-- cary
Lucifer
'Nuff said
raven1
<sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
>of a reputed gallerist
Your point being?
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
johac
"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
> http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>
> 25 July 2006, 13:26
>
> Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
> of a reputed gallerist
>
>
>
So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
captain.
"Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
wouldn't it have been funny if someone, when invited to spray paint the
pictures, painted a satanic star or an upside down cross and ran away
laughing before the guys could stop him?
captain.
<omare...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1153940425.5...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Of course if "blasphemous" paintings of Muslimes were shown, the
> hysterical dipshits on the left would blow themselves up :)
>
you're right. flushing the koran down the toilet was no big deal. i'd do it.
you wouldn't mind if they flushed a bible down the toilet would you? :)
wcb
> In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>>
>> 25 July 2006, 13:26
>>
>> Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
>> of a reputed gallerist
>>
>>
>>
> So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
Now? the Russian Orthodox church has long been
filled with bastards. When the revolution occured
in Russia in 1917, so many were tired of 'em they
welcomed the godless commies. Not too different
from the revolt against royalty and the church in
revolutionary France and for the same reasons.
Too bad the Tzar's replacements weren't any better.
These bastards were crazy way back to the Middle Ages.
--
During the reign of Tiberius (A.D. 14-37), the news of
Pan's death came to one Thamus, a sailor on his way to
Italy by way of the island of Paxi. A divine voice hailed
him across the salt water, "Thamus, are you there?
When you reach Palodes, take care to proclaim that
the great god Pan is dead."
Cheerful Charlie
josef....@sympatico.can
In a message sent 'round the world, Sound of Trumpet poured fuel on the
fire with the following:
> Young Activists In St. Petersburg Protest Against Blasphemous "Art"
< chuckle! > WoT/SoT is peddling political correctness!
Whooda thunkit?!
Regards,
Josef
Social stagnation results not from a lack of answers but from the
absence of the impulse to ask questions.
-- Eric Hoffer
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>
>>http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>>
>>25 July 2006, 13:26
>>
>>Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
>>of a reputed gallerist
>>
>
> So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
Ok. The gallerist is without good taste and blasphemous.
But why do you consider him to be a nutcase on religious
issues?
>"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you
>commit atrocities"
> -Voltaire
Indeed! Witness the acts of the Communists in Russia
who claimed to be true believers.
The Black Monk
LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
kill? 300,000 or so?
BM
johac
wcb <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
> johac wrote:
>
> > In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >
> >> http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
> >>
> >> 25 July 2006, 13:26
> >>
> >> Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
> >> of a reputed gallerist
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
>
> Now? the Russian Orthodox church has long been
> filled with bastards. When the revolution occured
> in Russia in 1917, so many were tired of 'em they
> welcomed the godless commies. Not too different
> from the revolt against royalty and the church in
> revolutionary France and for the same reasons.
> Too bad the Tzar's replacements weren't any better.
> These bastards were crazy way back to the Middle Ages.
I goes back even further than that, I'll bet. After being out of
business for so long they seem to have made a surprisingly rapid
comeback.
johac
Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
seem to be so fond of.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
johac
Communism has been described as a substitute religion, complete with
dogma (dialectics), saints (Stalin, Lenin, Marx, et al.), sinners
(capitalists, rich peasants, the West, etc.) And on close study, it is
absurd too.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
wcb
> In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> johac wrote:
>> > In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
>> > atrocities"
>> > -Voltaire
>> >
>>
>> LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
>> kill? 300,000 or so?
>>
>> BM
>
> Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> seem to be so fond of.
40,000 or so is the usual estimate given, over about
4 years or so. After Robspierre (A deist by the way)
was deposed, the "white terror" took place where many of those
who with Robspierre had been resonsible for many deaths
were hunted down and guillotined for their troubles.
The Vendee, wars in the countryside between factions
of revolutionaries and counter-revoutionaries probably
were responsible for most deaths.
Robspierre's faction, responssible for the terror
were Deists, god believers, who eventually destroyed the Athistics
"Herbertists".
Far more died in the wars between Catholics and Huguenots
in their internecine religious wars. Nobody knows how many
deaths occured in the three months that followed the St.
Bartholomew's day massacre, I have seen 30,000 quotes in
several places, with highs estimated of 100,000.
There were a number of earlier massacres over France for a
decade before this.
Wars raged over France for several decades after that.
And we had the wars of religion in Holland.
So we had religious wars in France from 1560,
the start ofthe Hugeuenot massacres, until,
about 1794 when Robspierre was executed.
234 years of Christian wars and massacres and
then Deist terrorism. Which did not help the Deist
cause.
Nobody blame it on Atheism, please.
Nobody has any idea how many people died
in the religous wars in France. But it
was many.
wcb
> In article <12chbou...@corp.supernews.com>,
> wcb <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
>
>> johac wrote:
>>
>> > In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> > "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>> >>
>> >> 25 July 2006, 13:26
>> >>
>> >> Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous
>> >> paintings of a reputed gallerist
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
>>
>> Now? the Russian Orthodox church has long been
>> filled with bastards. When the revolution occured
>> in Russia in 1917, so many were tired of 'em they
>> welcomed the godless commies. Not too different
>> from the revolt against royalty and the church in
>> revolutionary France and for the same reasons.
>> Too bad the Tzar's replacements weren't any better.
>> These bastards were crazy way back to the Middle Ages.
>
> I goes back even further than that, I'll bet. After being out of
> business for so long they seem to have made a surprisingly rapid
> comeback.
The ROC has long been a pain to other churches,
Catholics, Ukrainain churches, Polish and others.
A nasty bunch and not vary charitable to other
Christian church's. The history of this seems to
be long and very complex.
Until WWI, Russia was stil a feudal state, many were
peasants locked to the land, treated little better
than slaves. While some village priests were respected,
many others saw the ROC has part of a power structure
the resisted all attempts at reformation of Russia's feudal
society and its horrors.
Many people deeply hated it for that. There were any numbers
of revolts and revolutions that were attempted before Russia
collapsed in WWI and the Tzar abdicated.
The comeback of the ROC started with Stalin relaxing
his strictures on the ROC starting during WWII
Early on, the Bolsheviks under Lenin had
ousted the ROC as onlty tolerated church and
officialy tolerated church and allowed freedom
of religion for all churches. And Atheists who
had been banned up to then. The big crackdown on
churches began in earnest with Stalin starting
after Lenin was stricken with strokes and was dying.
In 1988 the ROC was again pretty much allowed
to operate freely, except Russia does have freedom
of religion and they are not allowed as per Tzarist
days to rule religious life in Russia to exclusion
of freedom of other churches to operate freely in Russia.
Churches in Poland and Ukraine have broken away
years ago and are no longer under their thumb.
The RCC is moving into Russia which infuriates
the ROC. The most serious era of persecution for
thd ROC was during the era of about 1924 or so
until 1948, 24 years. Stalin died in 1956.
The Black Monk
> In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > johac wrote:
> > > In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> > > "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
> > > -Voltaire
> > >
> >
> > LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
> > kill? 300,000 or so?
> >
> > BM
>
> Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> seem to be so fond of.
You are comparing four years of work to centuries of conflicts. And
changing the subject. Numerous instances of Christian atrocities over
the centuries don't diminish the crimes of Robespierre. Voltaire
stated, "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
atrocities." His colleague Diderot said "Man will never be free until
the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
Given the context of the subsequent decades of mass murder those words
take on a very sinister meaning.
BM
Mohammed Silverstein
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:B%7yg.17979$ly....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> johac wrote:
>
>> In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>>>
>>>25 July 2006, 13:26
>>>
>>>Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
>>>of a reputed gallerist
>>>
>>
>> So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
>
Any word on how the old inactivists will respond?
The Black Monk
wcb wrote:
> johac wrote:
>
> >
> > Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> > Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> > seem to be so fond of.
>
> 40,000 or so is the usual estimate given, over about
> 4 years or so.
Any reference for "the usual estimate?" My book on European history
(New York Times Notable Book of the Year and has been praised by the
Guardian, The Times, etc), written by Norman Davies (senior member of
the Wolfson College, Oxford, a fellow of
the British Academy) claims about 30,000 guillotines in the cities
about about ten times that number slaughtered in the countryside (much
like the Bolshevik purges, people remember the literate urban victims
more than the faceless peasant victims of terror). Wikipedia gives
estimates of the dead int he Vendee alone (not PAris or other regions)
as 40,000 - 250,000 out of a total population of 800,000. The higher
figures approach the level of genocide committed by Pol Pot. Accordng
to General Westermann, client of Danton, reported to the Convention:
"The Vendee is no more...I have buried it in the woods and marshes of
Savenay...According to your orders, I have trampled their children
beneath our horses' feet; I have massacred their women, so they will no
longer give birth to brigands. I do not have a single prisoner to
reproach me. I have exterminated them all. The roads are sown with
corpses..."
In contrast, the Christian Vendeen leader Bonchamps showed mercy to his
Republican prisoners by pardoning 5,000 of them on his deathbed.
Also in contrast, acxcording to the Encyclopedia Americana (the only
source where I could get concrerete figures,during my short search),
the infamous Spanish Inquisition executed only 2,000 people during the
height of its activity in the late 15th/early 16th centuries. Most of
the arrested were granted mercy after repenting.
> After Robspierre (A deist by the way) was deposed, the "white terror" took place
> where many of those who with Robspierre had been resonsible for many deaths
> were hunted down and guillotined for their troubles.
I am opposed to the death penalty but consider those crimes to be
completely different from the earlier ones.
> The Vendee, wars in the countryside between factions
> of revolutionaries and counter-revoutionaries probably
> were responsible for most deaths.
The deaths mostly consisted of local peasants killing Republicnas sent
from the city to exploit them, and of retaliatory massacres by soldiers
against peasant guerrillas/monarchists. There are very very many
parallels between the Vendee and the Bolshevik seizure and maintanance
of power in rural Russia and Ukraine.
> Robspierre's faction, responssible for the terror
> were Deists, god believers, who eventually destroyed the Athistics
> "Herbertists".
The atheist Herbertists were active particpants and strong allies of
Robespierre in the early phases of the Revolution, and the falling out
between them and Robespierre is comparable to that between Stalin and
Trotsky.
Deism was the closest the "mainstream" 18th century came to atheism.
Modern American Christian fundamentalist politicians who pretend that
the American founding fathers were Christians conveniently forget that
they were actually deists who, in the context of the 18th century,
could be considered non-or anti-Christian.
> Far more died in the wars between Catholics and Huguenots
> in their internecine religious wars.
Over decades, not four years. And I'm not sure about the numbers.
Your claim of only 40,000 is false; while the death toll from the
Catholic-Huguenot wars is higher than 40,000 I'm not sure it surpasses
the 100,000s of the French Revolutionary Terror.
At any rate, the religious wars in France ended decades before the
French Revolution, so the ending of religious wars can't be used as an
excuse for the massacres committed by French Republicans.
regards,
BM
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>johac wrote:
>>
>>>In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
>>> -Voltaire
>>>
>>
>>LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
>>kill? 300,000 or so?
>>
>>BM
>
> Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> seem to be so fond of.
Perhaps :) But you really had to beat the bushes to come up with enough
to counter just the number done in by Robespierre et al. :)
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
> In article <B%7yg.17979$ly....@bignews6.bellsouth.net>,
> "Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
>
>>johac wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>http://www.interfax-religion.com/?act=news&div=1761
>>>>
>>>>25 July 2006, 13:26
>>>>
>>>>Young activists in St. Petersburg protest against blasphemous paintings
>>>>of a reputed gallerist
>>>>
>>>
>>>So now Russia has its own religious nutcases too.
>>
>>Ok. The gallerist is without good taste and blasphemous.
>>But why do you consider him to be a nutcase on religious
>>issues?
>>
>> >"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you
>> >commit atrocities"
>> > -Voltaire
>>
>>Indeed! Witness the acts of the Communists in Russia
>>who claimed to be true believers.
>
> Communism has been described as a substitute religion, complete with
> dogma (dialectics), saints (Stalin, Lenin, Marx, et al.), sinners
> (capitalists, rich peasants, the West, etc.) And on close study, it is
> absurd too.
Yes. I agreed with you. :) and gave an example :)
But you did not answer,
why do you consider the gallerist (Gelman ?) to be a nutcase
on religious issues?
Cary Kittrell
Which underscores the peril that lurks any time any ideology,
secular or religious, becomes more important than the people
it is meant to save.
-- cary
captain.
"The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1154094728....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
The Black Monk
captain. wrote:
> an interesting post BM.
Thank you, captain.
regards,
BM
wcb
> johac wrote:
>
>> In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>> "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>johac wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
>>>> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
>>>>atrocities"
>>>> -Voltaire
>>>>
>>>
>>>LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
>>>kill? 300,000 or so?
>>>
>>>BM
>>
>> Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
>> Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
>> seem to be so fond of.
>
> Perhaps :) But you really had to beat the bushes to come up with enough
> to counter just the number done in by Robespierre et al. :)
The inquisition came about after the Albigensian crusade,
where as much as a million people may have died
over the course of these crusades. It was meant to hunt down
last of the Albigensians and oteher sects.
The inquisition didn't have much to do as entire towns
and villages had been exterminated. later inquistions
in France did not deal with Huguenots, mass murder
and war was used instead. Same with the Spanish in
the Netherlands.
We had other massacres, the Holy Vehm was a horror
outside of the Inquisition proper that kill many more
than the Inquisition in the name of the Catholic church.
It was a self elected inquisition unto its self.
johac
Oops! I didn't see the first line. I wasn't referring to the gallerist
but to the protesters. In a free society why shouldn't he be allowed to
hang up the paintings that he wants?
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
johac
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" <urj...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> johac wrote:
>
> > In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>johac wrote:
> >>
> >>>In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >>> "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
> >>> -Voltaire
> >>>
> >>
> >>LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
> >>kill? 300,000 or so?
> >>
> >>BM
> >
> > Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> > Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> > seem to be so fond of.
>
> Perhaps :) But you really had to beat the bushes to come up with enough
> to counter just the number done in by Robespierre et al. :)
No one knows the exact figures, but the Thirty Years War alone may have
wiped out 30% of the German population. May have been one of the ones to
light the fuse to set off the French Revolution, but I think that he can
hardly be blamed for the excesses of the Jacobins.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
johac
Voltaire died in 1778, eleven years before the start of the French
Revolution. His writings might have in part inspired the revolution, but
I find it hard to hold him responsible for the slaughter that followed.
None of that takes away from Voltaire's statement. You may try to duck
the issue, but throughout history belief in absurdities such as
religion. Communism, National Socialism, etc. have caused enormous pain,
misery, death, destruction and countless other atrocities. If you don't
believe me, just ask the people in the Middle East today where you can
be killed just for going to the wrong place of worship.
johac
wcb <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
> johac wrote:
>
> > In article <1154026953.8...@s13g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> johac wrote:
> >> > In article <1153939966.9...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
> >> > "Sound of Trumpet" <sound_of...@lycos.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
> >> > atrocities"
> >> > -Voltaire
> >> >
> >>
> >> LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
> >> kill? 300,000 or so?
> >>
> >> BM
> >
> > Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> > Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> > seem to be so fond of.
>
> 40,000 or so is the usual estimate given, over about
> 4 years or so. After Robspierre (A deist by the way)
> was deposed, the "white terror" took place where many of those
> who with Robspierre had been resonsible for many deaths
> were hunted down and guillotined for their troubles.
> The Vendee, wars in the countryside between factions
> of revolutionaries and counter-revoutionaries probably
> were responsible for most deaths.
Voltaire himself died before the revolution. We don't know what Voltaire
would have made of the slaughter.
>
> Robspierre's faction, responssible for the terror
> were Deists, god believers, who eventually destroyed the Athistics
> "Herbertists".
>
> Far more died in the wars between Catholics and Huguenots
> in their internecine religious wars. Nobody knows how many
> deaths occured in the three months that followed the St.
> Bartholomew's day massacre, I have seen 30,000 quotes in
> several places, with highs estimated of 100,000.
>
> There were a number of earlier massacres over France for a
> decade before this.
>
> Wars raged over France for several decades after that.
> And we had the wars of religion in Holland.
> So we had religious wars in France from 1560,
> the start ofthe Hugeuenot massacres, until,
> about 1794 when Robspierre was executed.
Don't forget the Thirty Years War which wiped out anywhere from 15 to
thirty percent of the population of Germany. Many think that the bad
behavior of Germany in the last century was due in part to the suffering
during that period.
>
> 234 years of Christian wars and massacres and
> then Deist terrorism. Which did not help the Deist
> cause.
>
> Nobody blame it on Atheism, please.
>
> Nobody has any idea how many people died
> in the religous wars in France. But it
> was many.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com
johac
wcb <wbar...@mylinuxisp.com> wrote:
I know that they are fighting tooth and nail to keep other religions
out.
>
> Until WWI, Russia was stil a feudal state, many were
> peasants locked to the land, treated little better
> than slaves. While some village priests were respected,
> many others saw the ROC has part of a power structure
> the resisted all attempts at reformation of Russia's feudal
> society and its horrors.
> Many people deeply hated it for that. There were any numbers
> of revolts and revolutions that were attempted before Russia
> collapsed in WWI and the Tzar abdicated.
Russia in those times was almost in a constant state of revolt.
>
>
> The comeback of the ROC started with Stalin relaxing
> his strictures on the ROC starting during WWII
But i thought that Stalin after the war and later under under Khruschev
the churches were suppressed again.
> Early on, the Bolsheviks under Lenin had
> ousted the ROC as onlty tolerated church and
> officialy tolerated church and allowed freedom
> of religion for all churches. And Atheists who
> had been banned up to then. The big crackdown on
> churches began in earnest with Stalin starting
> after Lenin was stricken with strokes and was dying.
>
> In 1988 the ROC was again pretty much allowed
> to operate freely, except Russia does have freedom
> of religion and they are not allowed as per Tzarist
> days to rule religious life in Russia to exclusion
> of freedom of other churches to operate freely in Russia.
> Churches in Poland and Ukraine have broken away
> years ago and are no longer under their thumb.
> The RCC is moving into Russia which infuriates
> the ROC. The most serious era of persecution for
> thd ROC was during the era of about 1924 or so
> until 1948, 24 years. Stalin died in 1956.
They may not have the prestige that they used to, but they are still
capable of stirring up trouble.
The Black Monk
> > > > LOL. How many people did Voltaire's heirs such as Robespierre et al
> > > > kill? 300,000 or so?
> > > >
> > > > BM
> > >
> > > Probably not as many as the Inquisitions, the witch trials, the
> > > Crusades, and the various religious wars and persecutions that believers
> > > seem to be so fond of.
> >
> > You are comparing four years of work to centuries of conflicts. And
> > changing the subject. Numerous instances of Christian atrocities over
> > the centuries don't diminish the crimes of Robespierre. Voltaire
> > stated, "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit
> > atrocities." His colleague Diderot said "Man will never be free until
> > the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
> > Given the context of the subsequent decades of mass murder those words
> > take on a very sinister meaning.
> >
> > BM
> >
> Voltaire died in 1778, eleven years before the start of the French
> Revolution. His writings might have in part inspired the revolution, but
> I find it hard to hold him responsible for the slaughter that followed.
He is partially responmsible due to his writings.
> None of that takes away from Voltaire's statement. You may try to duck
> the issue, but throughout history belief in absurdities such as
> religion. Communism, National Socialism, etc. have caused enormous pain,
> misery, death, destruction and countless other atrocities.
And, given the events of the French Revolution, you can add the
Enlightenment to that list. Actually, people have managed to turn any
ideology into a brutal and violent thing; the only question is one of
degree. And the Enlightenment of Voltaire, Diderot etc. is among the
bloodier ones.
regards,
BM
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj
By the same token, why shouldn't people who are against the cultural
attitude that this painter exhibits be free to make their disgust
with them demonstrably known ?
ie. he may hang his paintings and they may demonstrate.
And we may judge both as examples of the cultures they come from.
johac
"The Black Monk" <ch....@hotmail.com> wrote:
I would agree with you there. Even benign ideologies can be perverted.
johac
I'm not saying that the protesters should be denied their right to
protest, but by the same token, I am entitled to my own opinion of them.
--
John Hachmann aa #1782
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities"
-Voltaire
Contact - Throw a .net over the .com