Why should God have to explain himself to you bums
Noel
creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
NC
@posting.google.com:
Do you feel better now?
noel...@iol.ie
wildbl...@hotmail.com
Noel wrote:
> Why should God have to explain
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
how long have you been suffering from these delusions Noel?
Cary Kittrell
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
You know, you're right. You're absolutely right on this one.
Thank you for making such a compelling and unimpeachable
case for God's existance. I shall turn my life over
to God immediately.
Would you mind answering just one more thing before I do that?
Thanks...
How do I decide which One is Him? There are WAY too many
choices.
-- cary
Doc Smartass
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com:
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world.
Religious opinion is not intelligence.
> Does God owe him something?
Bitch owes me $50. Tell him to pay up or the Pope gets it.
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
For being evil, yes. By any christer's definition of "god"--all-knowing,
all-powerful, all-good, all-kiss-my-ass, it's doing fuck-all to meet that
standard, what with all the thousands who died because of a giant wave, or
the millions who die of disease and starvation, or my neighbor's fucking
dog who got run over BY HIS OWN OWNER when I was 8 years old.
Your god is omni-nonexistent, laddiebuck.
> It would be an impossible argument.
I just argued it. You lose and therefore owe me $50.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
James Caan? He's still alive, man.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001001/
So is Jackie Chan.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000329/
Neither of them ever raised the dead, for all their acting ability.
--
Dr. Smartass -- BAAWA Knight of Heckling -- a.a. #1939
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Wart inhale dough way cur?
Hurl, hurl, door gong's oil hair!
Wart inhale dough way cur, nor?
Douglas Berry
beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed
the following
>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.
I recognize the wonders of the universe, but unlike you, I have
learned about the natural processes that led to them.
>Does God owe him something?
An apology for the 2002 World Series would be nice.
>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
If a deity revealed itself to me in a manneer that made it clear
beyond any reasonable doubt that it was in fact a God, then I'd have
to believe. Fixing everything that's wrong with my body would be a
good start.
>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
So did Apollinous of Tyana. Big deal. Mythology is full of
characters that could raise the dead.
--
Douglas E. Berry Do the OBVIOUS thing to send e-mail
Atheist #2147, Atheist Vet #5
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as
when they do it from religious conviction."
Blaise Pascal (1623-1662), Pense'es, #894.
Al Klein
alt.atheism:
>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person
He shouldn't. We're not talking about him, we're talking about his
representatives. If *YOU* want to talk about him, *YOU'RE* going to
have to post objective evidence that he objectively exists.
Understand the difference between YOU and YOUR GOD?
>Look what they did to JC
Characters in novels don't have things "done to" them. Unless you
have objective evidence? Or you're claiming to *be* him?
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Creationists are the best evidence we have that there is no intelligent design."
-Josef Balluch
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
manut...@yahoo.com
On the other hand, the question "Why should God have to explain
himself?" assumes that he has not done and does not do so, which
invalidates pretty much all religions and all scriptures right there.
You cannot both assert that he does explain himself, and explain why he
does not explain himself, without contradicting yourself.
Mark Nutter
manut...@alethian.org
http://www.alethian.org/ -- Information about Alethea, the God who does
not explain herself, and about Alethian faith and practice.
Don Kresch
let us all know that:
>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.
Because you're not intelligent enough to grasp that there is no
god.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
sAnToLiNa
Noel <noel...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com...
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
Yep, He owes me a fucking explanation. I'm going to treat him like the
churlish, adolescent little fuck that you seem to believe He is.
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
Not if She had nice tits.
> It would be an impossible argument.
Can create a universe but can't argue successfully with an atheist. That's
the trouble with you idiot believers, you always project God to be as
fucking stupid as you are.
Secular Fundamentalist
*you* to justify why you believe in him. All we ever get is strawmen, ad
hominem, drivel and doublethink.
Tell us why you believe in God. We already know why we don't. It *isn't*
a matter of choice. It's a matter of honesty.
--
David Silverman F.L.A.H.N.
aa #2208
Debate is futile if no distinction is made between balance and honesty.
Lester Solnin
Les
"Noel" <noel...@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com...
Liz
<c24b49f4.05022...@posting.google.com> wrote:
>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice.
If it is a choice to believe in the evidence, then yes, it is
personal. Many people believe because they are afraid not to believe.
That is personal also.
>Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.
A bit of poisoning the well there, Noel. God® doesn't, and in fact
can't, explain diddly, but the wonders of the world are evident for
all to recognize. In fact, they are all the more marvelous when you
look at the physical universe and realize that the way it behaves is
far more fascinating and interesting that the made up stories of
Middle Eastern shepherds.
>Does God owe him something?
No. In fact, God® is incapable of owing anyone anything.
Non-existence has a way of doing that.
>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway.
Since it has never happened you are speculating on those things not in
evidence. (See the .sig)
>It would be an impossible argument.
That God® actually exists. Yes, that would be an impossible argument.
>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
And Icarus flew too close to the sun and his wings melted.
Liz #658 BAAWA
"Speculating on the possible reaction to evidence is no excuse for
failing to produce the evidence." - Wayne M. Delia
John Popelish
>
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
Fair question. Here is another. If some god did create the entire
universe, why would it have the slightest care what some animals on
one planet think about its existence?
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
The atheists I know are realists. If something is real, they are
interested in knowing about it.
> It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
You are speaking of mythology as if it were history.
--
John Popelish
The great philosopher-criminologist
prove to them if God exists or not.
Most of them will always think that they are hallucinating if they saw
God face to face.
Robibnikoff
"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109392022.2...@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Prove it.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
Al Klein
<pengu...@mindOBVIOUSspring.com> said in alt.atheism:
>On 25 Feb 2005 15:26:42 -0800, noel...@iol.ie (Noel) drained his
>beer, leaned back in the alt.atheism beanbag and drunkenly proclaimed
>the following
>>Does God owe him something?
>An apology for the 2002 World Series would be nice.
An apology for the Mets is way overdue. Not *to* them - *for* them.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"I don't try to imagine a God; it suffices to stand in awe of the structure of the world
insofar as it allows our inadequate senses to appreciate it."
- Letter to S. Flesch, April 16, 1954; Einstein Archive 30-1154
DaveJr
> >I agree with Noel, It would really make no difference if you could
> > prove to them if God exists or not.
> >
> > Most of them will always think that they are hallucinating if they saw
> > God face to face.
"face"? would that be the old man with a grey beard face?
Graham Kennedy
God has an excellent reason to explain himself to us - he
wants something from us.
God, for reasons unexplained, apparently wants Humans to
worship him. Therefore he owes us something in return,
i.e. he needs to show us that there is something to worship
and preferably a reason why we should worship it.
--
Graham Kennedy
Creator and Author,
Daystrom Institute Technical Library
http://www.ditl.org
thomas p
>If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
>creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
>himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
>the wonders of this world.
God doesn't need to do anything. You are, however, making a claim.
Stop blaming god for your failure to back it up.
>Does God owe him something?
>On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
>known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
>anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
How do you know what would happen?
>Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
According to the story the people who killed him were not atheists.
thomas p
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.
The great philosopher-criminologist
It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.
This is what some sociologists and psychologists say.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Prove it.
http://groups.google.ca/groups?selm=YeMkb.59118%24832.39210%40twister.rdc-kc.rr.com&output=gplain
(from Jim Scannell.)
Robibnikoff
"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109419852.6...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Quote Thomas P:
>
> It is amazing how many theists think they can read minds.
>
> This is what some sociologists and psychologists say.
Go tell someone who gives a damn.
Robibnikoff
That babble from a fellow moron only confirms your own idiocy. How
pathetic.
The great philosopher-criminologist
theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
Budikka666
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
Yep! If he wants to save us, then it's incumbent upon him to do the
work, but what you see in the Bible is the very antithesis of this.
God doesn't do anything. Instead, he requires humans to do his dirty
work for him.
What this effectively proves is that there actually is no god - only
humans pretending there's a god.
It would be the easiest thing in the world for this god to save
everyone, but he doesn't. He doesn't. He doesn't exist.
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
Where's your evidence that anything was done to this Jesus character?
Or that he even existed? There's no evidence whatsoever for such a
character outside of the derivative and error-prone NT.
Budikka
Budikka666
For someone who bills themselves as a "great philosopher criminologist"
you appear to be appallingly gullible. A "great philosopher
criminologist" would rely on evidence and deduction, but you have no
evidence that there even is a god to begin with. Until you can
establish that, your entire basis is academic.
Budikka
The great philosopher-criminologist
of the NT.
Jez
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world.
What wonders ? I have to eat dead things to survive....what's so fucking
great about that ?
>Does God owe him something?
Who ?
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway.
Well, shot.
>It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
Yeah, sure he did. <Cough>
--
Jez
'Realism is seductive because once you have accepted the reasonable
notion that you should base your actions on reality, you are too often
led to accept, without much questioning, someone else's version of what
that reality is. It is a crucial act of independent thinking to be
skeptical of someone else's description of reality.'-
Howard Zinn
NFS Underground2, Americas Army And MOH-PA
Robibnikoff
> Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
And I should give a shit because....................................?
BTW, please name them all and provide their credentials. I see no reason to
take your word for anything.
Liz
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
<1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of GodŽ's
actual face time would suffice.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Liz, you like most people do not want to have faith in
things which have no basis in reality. -- josalt
The great philosopher-criminologist
Liz wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>
>
> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
God®'s
> actual face time would suffice.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
Found God)
http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
Found God)
A quote from this article;
"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
I have never doubted it from that day until this.
The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
realize something really had happened to me."
A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God
Robibnikoff
Liz wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>
>
> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
> face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
GodŽ's
> actual face time would suffice.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
Found God)
http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
Found God)
A quote from this article;
"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
I have never doubted it from that day until this.
The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
realize something really had happened to me."
A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God
Subjective experiences don't prove anything.
Noel
Therefore he owes us something in return,
> i.e. he needs to show us that there is something to worship
> and preferably a reason why we should worship it.
dream on.
Bill
Atheists are rationalists. They base their beliefs on objective evidence
rather than myths, folklore and legend.
--
Bill
"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Bill
Liz wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>
>
> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
> face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
GodŽ's
> actual face time would suffice.
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
Found God)
http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
Found God)
A quote from this article;
"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
I have never doubted it from that day until this.
The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
realize something really had happened to me."
A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God
Hallucinations are not "evidence" of god!
Bill
news:1109426011.2...@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
It's not "academic", it's "fictional"!
>
> Budikka
>
Graham Kennedy
Indeed, on past performance it is very unlikely that god
is going to do this. Therefore it would be reasonable not
to worship him, even if he did in fact exist.
Liz
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
<1109428908.3...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>Liz wrote:
>> On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
>> <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
>> <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
>> >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
>> >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>>
>>
>> Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
>> face to face with GodŽ. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
>GodŽ's
>> actual face time would suffice.
>
>http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
>Found God)
>
>www.ex-atheist.com
>
>http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
>Found God)
>
>A quote from this article;
>
>"Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
>heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
>in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
>talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
>been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
>rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
>not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
>scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
>I have never doubted it from that day until this.
But your contention was that an atheist would believe that he was
halluncinating if given an experience with GodŽ. The article you cite
says that the moment GodŽ spoke to the atheist, the man "knew there
was a living God and [he] never doubted it from that day until this."
This article disproves your stated contention.
>
>The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
>minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
>known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
>was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
>realize something really had happened to me."
>
>A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God
So do you have any instances that support your assertion that atheists
would ignore GodŽ in a face to face?
thomas p
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Perhaps they do. What data do they have to back it up? Without
objective evidence it remains an assertion.
thomas p
In other words there is no evidence of his existence. By the way, why
did you cut the beginning of Kennedy's post? It wouldn't be because
you are a liar for Jesus?
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
As there are not gods to meet face to face, we can pretty well rule out
your stupid statement.
--
There are none more ignorant and useless,
than they that seek answers on their knees,
with their eyes closed.
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor ktay...@getnet.net
A.A #1143 PLONKED by Bob
Apostle of Dr. Lao EAC: Virgin Conversion Unit Director
____________________________________________________________________
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
> The works of Flavious Josephus mention Jesus, Buddika. That is outside
> of the NT.
>
Not in context with the surrounding wittings in his works.
Not with in context of the actual history being reported and recored in
the books.
In other words, foolish one, it was added after the fact, by people with
an agenda.
Further, Josephus was to born till some 60 years after the fact in the
first place. So, it would have been very hard for him to be witting
about someone that was supposed to already have been dead 60 years. Oh,
but Josephus would not have started witting when he was born, so lets
see, we'll be nice and figure he was a fast study, 85 years after the
fact, if ole Joe started writing when he was 25.
Then there is the little problem that the only thing ole Joe has to say
about this Jesus fellow, is in reference to his sibling James.
Come on. No mention of any of his miracles. No mention of any of his
deeds. No mention of any of the events surrounding his death, in
particular the events recorded in Matthew.
Forgeries are common in text used by people to try and shore up a weak
religion.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
> Liz wrote:
>
>>On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great philosopher-criminologist"
>><bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
>><1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
>>>theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
>>>hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
>>
>>
>>Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
>
> GodŽ's
>
>>actual face time would suffice.
>
>
> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time Atheist
> Found God)
>
> www.ex-atheist.com
>
> http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
> Found God)
>
> A quote from this article;
>
> "Many years ago while trimming lumber in a sawmill, God spoke to my
> heart, revealing Himself to me. He said, "The only true happiness is
> in the Lord." I knew then that there was a living God. No one could
> talk that out of me. It was an actual experience! Anyone who has ever
> been around a sawmill and has heard the screech of those saws, the
> rattle and the roar, knows one can hardly hear a human voice. There was
> not a man within thirty feet of me, but God spoke to me above the
> scream of that machinery. That moment I knew there was a living God and
> I have never doubted it from that day until this.
>
> The men I worked with knew that I was a drunkard and an atheist. The
> minute Jesus spoke to my heart, I walked over to a fellow worker I had
> known for years, a hardened criminal, a fellow who was worse than I
> was. I said, "There is a God!" He did not laugh. He seemed to
> realize something really had happened to me."
>
> A book from Ferguson, G. A. - How a Modern Atheist Found God
>
And many drunk hallucinate.
I'm just so touched by stories where a person trades in one addiction
for another. Instead of happily sitting in the bar, tossing back a few
cold ones with his buds, he instead gets in their face and tries to
infect their brain with gods and religion.
But still, no face to face contact. Hmmmm, wonder why that is?
jfa...@earthlink.net
You imply that this is evidence. Instead of implying
it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
evidence he existed.
jfa...@earthlink.net
The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> Liz wrote:
> > On 26 Feb 2005 05:31:45 -0800, "The great
philosopher-criminologist"
> > <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> in news message
> > <1109424705.7...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > >Robibnikoff, there are some psychologists, sociologists, and
> > >theologists that say that most atheists will think they are
> > >hallucinating if they saw God face to face.
> >
> >
> > Please cite the specifics of all verified cases of atheists coming
> > face to face with God®. Names, dates, reaction, and proof of
> God®'s
> > actual face time would suffice.
>
> http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25486 (A One-Time
Atheist
> Found God)
>
> www.ex-atheist.com
>
> http://www.apostolicfaith.org/foryou/articles/smith-w.asp (An Atheist
> Found God)
>
Barker, Dan. Losing Faith in Faith. Madison: Freedom
>From Religion Foundation, 1992.
s
jfa...@earthlink.net
Bill wrote:
> Which ones? Care to provide any names.
>
> Atheists are rationalists.
They--we--are supposed to be, anyway.
> They base their beliefs on objective evidence
Except that, sorry to say, I know of atheists in this
very newsgroup who don't and who will go ballistic
if you question their beliefs. They will attack you,
lie outrageously about you, put words in your mouth
and more. Very disillusioning. Especially if you
are one who actually tries to maintain that standard
yourself. I wouldn't be surprised if I am even
attacked for saying this.
r
The great philosopher-criminologist
useless to try to prove anything to materialists.
The great philosopher-criminologist
and how atheists react when faced with it,
http://www.thewestcoast.net/bobsnook/stg/tp/proof.htm
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
I'm running away" post.
You have not even attempted to provide proof.
And for your information, I'm not a materialist. Now, would you care to
try again?
The great philosopher-criminologist
with each other.
I have to go by with what the teacher says.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
Atheism, is with out theism. That has nothing to do with being a
materialist. It has to do with out having theism, or, in simpler terms,
with out faith in gods.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> > I was taught that atheism and materialism are synonumous
(spelling?)
> > with each other.
> >
> > I have to go by with what the teacher says.
> >
> Your teacher was wrong.
NO!! MY TEACHER IS NEVER WRONG!!!!
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
atheism and what it is. In fact, you go out of your way to not quote
them in the post. Typical.
Again, your teacher was wrong. And you refuse to actually try and
debate the issue.
So, not only was your teacher wrong, but you obviously did not learn
anything from said teacher.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> > Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> >
> >>The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was taught that atheism and materialism are synonumous
> >
> > (spelling?)
> >
> >>>with each other.
> >>>
> >>>I have to go by with what the teacher says.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Your teacher was wrong.
> >
> >
> > NO!! MY TEACHER IS NEVER WRONG!!!!
> >
> I notice that you make no attempt to address the points I make about
> atheism and what it is. In fact, you go out of your way to not quote
> them in the post. Typical.
>
> Again, your teacher was wrong. And you refuse to actually try and
> debate the issue.
>
> So, not only was your teacher wrong, but you obviously did not learn
> anything from said teacher.
Yes, I did. I learned to ALWAYS go by with what the teacher says. Let
her/him set your way of thinking for you.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> > I was taught that atheism and materialism are synonumous
(spelling?)
> > with each other.
> >
> > I have to go by with what the teacher says.
> >
> Your teacher was wrong.
>
> Atheism, is with out theism. That has nothing to do with being a
> materialist. It has to do with out having theism, or, in simpler
terms,
> with out faith in gods.
>
> Now, would you care to try again?
WAIT! I know an atheist who told me that atheism and materialism are
the same thing. This person was an atheist, remember.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
But then again, you never learned that you don't accept anything at face
value, with out doing the research to back it up either.
And you still have not attempted a rebuttal on the point I make, that
atheism is not on par with materialism, not even close.
In fact, since you apparently have no problem with my definition of
atheism, and since that definition has nothing to do with the definition
of materialism. I have to assume you agree with me, and are not in
support of the statement that atheism IS NOT synonymous with materialism.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
The great philosopher-criminologist
Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> > Rev. Karl E. Taylor wrote:
> >
> >>The great philosopher-criminologist wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was taught that atheism and materialism are synonumous
> >
> > (spelling?)
> >
> >>>with each other.
> >>>
> >>>I have to go by with what the teacher says.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Your teacher was wrong.
> >>
> >>Atheism, is with out theism. That has nothing to do with being a
> >>materialist. It has to do with out having theism, or, in simpler
> >
> > terms,
> >
> >>with out faith in gods.
> >>
> >>Now, would you care to try again?
> >
> >
> > WAIT! I know an atheist who told me that atheism and materialism
are
> > the same thing. This person was an atheist, remember.
> >
> Who?
An atheist I correspond with occasionally. A fellow philosopher, too.
Rev. Karl E. Taylor
thomas p
The truth is that atheism is a position that can be rationally
defended. That is not the same as saying that atheists are rational.
After all Fred Stone is an atheist.
thomas p
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>Karl, this posting from Jim Scannell says that it is pretty much
>useless to try to prove anything to materialists.
Test his idea. Provide some objective evidence and see what happens.
Otherwise it is just another empty assertion.
Noel
> it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
> evidence he existed.
Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
sceptical as many of his followers were.
Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
questioned and resented.
Look at the people who deny the holocaust as one example of opposing
truth. Are they just plain stupid or are they as I would suggest
deviant? ie liars and more than that, they are persons with an
ulterior motive.
Try looking in the mirror for evidence of a God and if you convince
that brain of yours that you are just a freak accident that happened
in time and space then that is what you are, no better than a bullock
in the field, another accident to you. You will never find God if you
deny him.
I dont feel sorry for you and certainly why should God have to
explain himself to a dummy like you? He would probably regard you as a
failure, a complete write off. And there is the dividing line between
minds. You would prefer to believe that believers in God are fools who
dream too much. I wonder if a bullock can dream.
thomas p
>jfa...@earthlink.net wrote in message >
>> You imply that this is evidence. Instead of implying
>> it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
>> evidence he existed.
>
>Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
>sceptical as many of his followers were.
Another mindreader.
>Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
>questioned and resented.
How could you possibly know? Where is the hard evidence that is being
questioned and resented?
>Look at the people who deny the holocaust as one example of opposing
>truth. Are they just plain stupid or are they as I would suggest
>deviant? ie liars and more than that, they are persons with an
>ulterior motive.
Yes, since we have hard, objective evidence that it happened. Your
analogy is false and insulting comparing atheists to malicious,
dishonest bigots.
>Try looking in the mirror for evidence of a God and if you convince
>that brain of yours that you are just a freak accident that happened
>in time and space then that is what you are, no better than a bullock
>in the field, another accident to you. You will never find God if you
>deny him.
The existence of people is not evidence of a god. You are assuming
your conclusion.
> I dont feel sorry for you and certainly why should God have to
>explain himself to a dummy like you?
He doesn't. You are, however, jumping a step. The existence of god
is not in evidence. Your claims are being considered, but you have
failed to back them up.
He would probably regard you as a
>failure, a complete write off. And there is the dividing line between
>minds. You would prefer to believe that believers in God are fools who
>dream too much. I wonder if a bullock can dream.
I wonder if you can make an actual argument as opposed to posting
baseless insults. Your failure does not speak well for your claims.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Noel wrote:
> jfa...@earthlink.net wrote in message >
> > You imply that this is evidence. Instead of implying
> > it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
> > evidence he existed.
>
> Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
> sceptical as many of his followers were.
I agree with you there, Noel. There is a bible verse that does back up
that assertion.
Fred Stone
news:9cu221hd2l3ks1r22...@4ax.com:
And I inspire great irrationality among liberal atheists.
--
Fred Stone
aa# 1369
"You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
The great philosopher-criminologist
Robibnikoff
"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109510954.8...@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Bible verses don't prove anything.
--
---------
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
#1557
>
Frank J Warner
<noel...@iol.ie> wrote:
> Try looking in the mirror for evidence of a God and if you convince
> that brain of yours that you are just a freak accident that happened
> in time and space then that is what you are, no better than a bullock
> in the field, another accident to you. You will never find God if you
> deny him.
Look, Jackson. I haven't read every post in this thread so I don't know
if this has already been pointed out to you. But many of us have tried
very hard to "find god." When I was much younger and much more gullible
I prayed nearly every day for Jesus to come into my life. I spent a lot
of time in the church, both as a congregant and an organizer of events.
I was baptized. I was elected president of a Christian youth
fellowship. I travelled to Europe with Billy Graham.
You know what? Throughout all that, about the only evidence I ever
received of god's existence was some rather spectacular pussy, which,
now that I look back on it, seems to be better evidence for the
Goddess, not the God.
Still, I gave it a shot. I gave it the better part of my youth and
nothing happened. No miracle. I didn't feel any different the day after
I was baptized than the day before. Zip. Nothing. Nada. And all the
prayer meetings and revivals and crusades and retreats and conferences
didn't make a single bit of difference to me. The more I learned about
your Late Stone Age Middle Eastern myth and its war god, the less I
could bring myself to associate myself with it.
You could say I saw the light after all. The light of reason.
Maybe you and other Christians are wired differently. Maybe you have
that "god gene" and I don't. Maybe you should realize that some of us
_can't_ believe in your fairy tale. Maybe you should fuck the hell off
and leave us alone.
-Frank
--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com
Robibnikoff
Name him/her.
Robibnikoff
So what?
Robibnikoff
What's your teacher's name?
jfa...@earthlink.net
Well put.
> After all Fred Stone is an atheist.
Wonderful.
jfa...@earthlink.net
Noel wrote:
> jfa...@earthlink.net wrote in message >
> > You imply that this is evidence. Instead of implying
> > it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
> > evidence he existed.
>
> Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
> sceptical as many of his followers were.
Oh I see. This isn't really about a lack of evidence,
it is really about me. I get it.
> Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
> questioned and resented.
The old "Why should bother producing evidence, you
wouldn't belive me anyway" dodge. Not very original.
> Look at the people who deny the holocaust as one example of opposing
> truth.
Yeah, they are kinda like people who deny evolution.
> Are they just plain stupid or are they as I would suggest
> deviant?
Ah. You start with an ad hominem attack and now
you move to a bifurcation fallacy.
> ie liars and more than that, they are persons with an
> ulterior motive.
My goodness. Are you supposed to be a Christian?
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy,
peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness,
faithfullness, gentleness, self control...
-- Galatians 5:22-23
Give none offence, neither to the Jews,
nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of
God: Even as I please all men in all things,
not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of
many, that they may be saved.
-- 1 Corinthians 10:32-33
Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not
high things, but condescend to men of low estate.
Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no
man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the
sight of all men. -- Romans 12:14,16,17
to malign no one, to be uncontentious, gentle,
showing every consideration for all men -- Titus 3:1-2
> Try looking in the mirror for evidence of a God and if you convince
> that brain of yours that you are just a freak accident that happened
> in time and space then that is what you are, no better than a bullock
> in the field, another accident to you. You will never find God if you
> deny him.
> I dont feel sorry for you and certainly why should God have to
> explain himself to a dummy like you?
But now you also, put them all aside: anger,
wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from
your mouth. -- Colossians 3:8
If there was a god, why would he allow someone full
of hate like you to speak for him?
> He would probably regard you as a
> failure, a complete write off.
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men
should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is
the law and the prophets. Matthew 7:12
And there is the dividing line between
> minds. You would prefer to believe that believers in God are fools
who
> dream too much. I wonder if a bullock can dream.
If you don't mind I'll wait for a Christian to respond
to my query.
c
The great philosopher-criminologist
jfa...@earthlink.net wrote:
> Noel wrote:
> > jfa...@earthlink.net wrote in message >
> > > You imply that this is evidence. Instead of implying
> > > it, why don't you explicitly state why you think it is
> > > evidence he existed.
> >
> > Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
> > sceptical as many of his followers were.
>
> Oh I see. This isn't really about a lack of evidence,
> it is really about me. I get it.
>
> > Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
> > questioned and resented.
>
> The old "Why should bother producing evidence, you
> wouldn't belive me anyway" dodge. Not very original.
>
Robibnikoff
So what?
The great philosopher-criminologist
So, I use them for my studies in sociology. I even cited them in my
reports and my sociology teacher agreed with it.
jfa...@earthlink.net
Fred Stone wrote:
> thomas p <tonyofbe...@yahoo.dk> wrote in
> news:9cu221hd2l3ks1r22...@4ax.com:
>
> > On 26 Feb 2005 13:29:14 -0800, jfa...@earthlink.net wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>Bill wrote:
> >>> Which ones? Care to provide any names.
> >>>
> >>> Atheists are rationalists.
> >>
> >>They--we--are supposed to be, anyway.
> >>
> >>> They base their beliefs on objective evidence
> >>
> >>Except that, sorry to say, I know of atheists in this
> >>very newsgroup who don't and who will go ba llistic
> >> if you question their beliefs. They will attack you,
> >>lie outrageously about you, put words in your mouth
> >> and more. Very disillusioning. Especially if you
> >>are one who actually tries to maintain that standard
> >>attacked for saying this.
> >>
> >>r
> >
> > The truth is that atheism is a position that can be rationally
> > defended. That is not the same as saying that atheists are
rational.
> > After all Fred Stone is an atheist.
> >
>
> And I inspire great irrationality among liberal atheists.
If so, only by example.
>
> --
> Fred Stone
> aa# 1369
> "You know you're over the target when you start receiving flak."
You got the Bo Gritz quote wrong:
"When you're on target, you're catching flak"
thomas p
wrote:
Thank you for your support Fred.
thomas p
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
An assertion does not back up an assertion.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Read Luke 16:19-31
Robibnikoff
"The great philosopher-criminologist" <bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote in
message news:1109545700.7...@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Why? The bible doesn't prove anything.
Robibnikoff
So what?
The great philosopher-criminologist
Is that all you can say?
The great philosopher-criminologist
But, that verse says the same thing I have said earlier in this thread.
That atheists will still not believe the evidence of God's existence
evein if it was shown to them.
bra...@bebows.com
I'm sorry I just re-read your post and I decided to determine if I
really am a dummy
>Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
sceptical as many of his followers were.
How many miracles are on record... uum... none
>Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
questioned and resented.
Question yes. Athiests to not resent any information we think logicaly
and rationally to come to the best conclusion. Please someone give me
good evidence of god, not just "well you have to just feel it"
>Look at the people who deny the holocaust as one example of opposing
>truth. Are they just plain stupid or are they as I would suggest
>deviant? ie liars and more than that, they are persons with an
>ulterior motive.
I may be going out on a limb here, but does any athiest here deny the
holocaust? Doubtful. Please do not put us in that catagory of people
who can deny something of that magnitude I'd have to say they are
blithering idiots... You see there is concrete proof of the
holocaust... Or maybe, just maybe athiest are sent by the devil to
make YOU question yourself and everything you've been taught in sunday
school and Fox news
>Try looking in the mirror for evidence of a God and if you convince
>that brain of yours that you are just a freak accident that happened
>in time and space then that is what you are, no better than a bullock
>in the field, another accident to you. You will never find God if you
>deny him
Freek accident no, millions of years of evolution yes... I deny
certainty without reasonable proof. You are certain without
authentication, if god is real I'd like to think he would not be upset
because I use the brain he gave me to rationalize....
> I dont feel sorry for you and certainly why should God have to
>explain himself to a dummy like you?
I'm sorry I do not either want you to feel sorry for me, as far as
the.. uh .. dummy thing. come on now, where do you get your
information the bible, your parents, a pastor of one church,
whop-de-fucking-do. I bet you hate gays and love the Bush
administration, you know what I bet you have, I bet you have a mullet
huh don't you. Don't worry about a thing don't bother reading or
educating yourself... God will provide a nice trailor for you and a
car battery to prop your screen door open with.
http://images.google.com/images?q=mullet&hl=en
....If you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an
ounce of skeptical sense in you, then you cannot distinguish
the useful ideas from the worthless ones - Carl Sagan, 1987. (Thanks
David V just what I was looking for)
Think
Robibnikoff
Couldn't care less.
> That atheists will still not believe the evidence of God's existence
> evein if it was shown to them.
Your mere opinion.
Robibnikoff
> Robibnikoff wrote:snip
>> So what?
>
> Is that all you can say?
It's all the crap you've been posting deserves.
jfa...@earthlink.net
What is this, if not attacking the messenger instead of his
message? You don't address any specific objections to this
so called evidence that you haven't even produced yet. The
fact is that most believers are just like atheists when it
comes to every single alleged god--except one.
You reject those other gods just like we do. But when it
comes to the Bible god, you have different standards. It is
you who become credulous, not atheists who become
incredulous. We're just applying the same standard that
you apply to every other god. Want me to prove it?
Do you think Caesar Agustus was a god? Why not? Suetonius
(whom many claim as an extra-Biblical source for the existence
of Jesus) wrote that the entire Roman Senate testified to witnessing
Augustus rise into heaven upon his death. Although you
are credulous about the Jesus account I suspect you are
skeptical about the Caesar Augustus account even though the
reputable members of the Roman senate, to a man, swore to
being eye witnesses to his ascension.
x
jfa...@earthlink.net
bran...@bebows.com wrote:
> >dummy like you
>
> I'm sorry I just re-read your post and I decided to determine if I
> really am a dummy
>
> >Even if you witnessed some of the miracles of JC you would still be
> sceptical as many of his followers were.
>
> How many miracles are on record... uum... none
What about that guy in Pacoima with the egg plant that
looked just like Malcom X?
> >Hard evidence to people like you is never accepted but rather
> questioned and resented.
>
> Question yes. Athiests to not resent any information we think
logicaly
> and rationally to come to the best conclusion.
Well, hypothetically.
> Please someone give me
> good evidence of god, not just "well you have to just feel it"
>
> >Look at the people who deny the holocaust as one example of opposing
> >truth. Are they just plain stupid or are they as I would suggest
> >d eviant? ie liars and more than that, they are persons with an
> >ulterior motive.
>
> I may be going out on a limb here, but does any athiest here deny
the
> holocaust? Doubtful.
Did you know that Rush Limbaugh's father died in a German
POW camp? Fell out of a guard tower--just kidding.
Please do not put us in that catagory of people
> who can deny something of that magnitude I'd have to say they are
> blithering idiots... You see there is concrete proof of the
> holocaust...
Or maybe, just maybe athiest are sent by the devil to
> make YOU question yourself and everything you've been taught in
sunday
> school and Fox news
Yeah, they'd never suspect an atheist.
>
>
Clothaire
Robin, you are dealing with a child. Give it up.
Clothaire #1392
The great philosopher-criminologist
Well, then explain my philosophy and criminology degrees.
The great philosopher-criminologist
Oh, and I get my thinking from blogs.
MarkA
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his creation,
> that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain himself to that
> person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise the wonders of this
> world. Does God owe him something? On the other hand, if God really does
> exist and made himself/herself known to an atheist, it is most likely that
> he would be rebuffed anyway. It would be an impossible argument. Look what
> they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
I could no more make myself believe in God than I could make myself
believe in the Easter Bunny. If God exists, AND He wants me to believe in
Him, then surely He knows what I would find convincing. The fact that I
don't believe in God is evidence that: He doesn't exist; He does
exist but doesn't want me to believe in Him; He exists but doesn't care if
I believe in Him or not.
If He has something to say to the world, He is going to have to do better
than giving cryptic and conflicting messages to a bunch of Bronze Age goat
herders, who didn't even have written language when the events of the OT
were supposed to have taken place. If Jesus was His second attempt to set
the world straight, He could have done better than an obscure prophet who
only talked to a handful of people, none of whom thought to write anything
down for almost 100 years.
God shows every sign of being either incompetent, non-existent, or a
playful prankster who has fun making religious zealots dance and sing.
--
MarkA
(still caught in the maze of twisty little passages, all different)
Fred Stone
We have some serious doubts about those too.
Jos Flachs
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
Read Harry Potter.
Jos Flachs
<bedford_...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>> > So, I use them for my studies in sociology. I even cited them in my
>> > reports and my sociology teacher agreed with it.
>>
>> So what?
>
>Is that all you can say?
That's nice, dear.
jwk
Noel wrote:
> If a person doesnt believe that God made us all as part of his
> creation, that is a personal choice. Why should God have to explain
> himself to that person if he is not intelligent enough to recognise
> the wonders of this world. Does God owe him something?
> On the other hand, if God really does exist and made himself/herself
> known to an atheist, it is most likely that he would be rebuffed
> anyway. It would be an impossible argument.
> Look what they did to JC and he was a man who raised the dead.
Absolutely no reason, and I never asked your "God" to prove himself.
I've asked a lot of Christians to prove him, but that's different, they
are always up in my face about "Him". As long as you fucks demand*
that I worship your little sky demon, I will demand you prove his
existence first. No takers yet.
jwk
BAAWA
*which you do by putting his name on my money and in my pledge of
allegiance and by trying to put your little superstition in my kids'
classrooms.