> In article <KUpXj.1334$qH4....@nlpi061.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus says...
> >Emma wrote: > >> In article <7xnXj.290$Q57....@nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com>, cactus says... > >>> Emma wrote: > >>>>>> That is dreadfully offensive. You alternate between being > >>>>>> very nice and tolerant, and very unkind and intolerant. > >>>>>> Christianity doesn't make me mentally impaired. > >>>>> Just because I think that secular societies can accomplish more than > >>>>> faith based ones? > >>>> No, because you compare Christianity to mental illness. > >>> NO I DIDN'T. NO I DIDN'T. NO I DIDN'T.
> >> Yes, you did.
> >> Your example for comparison was a mental illness. > >> It's there in the thread. It's impossible to deny.
> >You don't seem to get it. My point was that Europe would be much farther > >along had it been secular during the Middle Ages and Renaissance. There > >would have been fewer wars, more respect for Galileo and IMO much more > >progress than was made during those times.
> Well since the Enlightenment we have had wars and > revolutions, two world wars and the Cold War.
> No doubt you will somehow still blame all of that on > religion though.
> >> I don't expect you to respond to evangelists > >> by teaching your children that Christianity is > >> similar to a mental illness.
> >I didn't. I taught them that Christianity was not our religion, and I > >gave them a vibrant religion and wonderful community. They are at home > >in it, and that's all I could do.
> Well I'm confused. Why give your children religious > teaching if you think it causes wars and inhibits > progress?
> >>>> I asked you if Christianity is better than > >>>> religions that sacrifice humans. > >>>> Yet you can't even bring yourself to answer > >>>> "Yes" to that question.
> >>> With rare exceptions I will not answer that in the affirmative.
> >> You will not say "Yes" to that question above?? > >> So Christianity is no better than religions that > >> practice human sacrifice??
> >Neither is Judaism by that standard. I abhor the practice, but who am I > >to say the religion is wrong? I think the act is wrong and immoral. But > >such religions will eventually die out in this modern world as their > >practitioners end up in jail.
> That is a bizarre answer. You're not able to say > that a murderous religion is wrong??
> >>> There > >>> are many paths to the Godhead, of which ours are but two.
> >> I see. So human sacrifice is just another path to God?
> >It's not my path, and it's not your path. Who are we to say? What > >gives you the certainty that it isn't?
> The belief that murder is wrong.
You are inconsistent and willfully ignorant, in the light of the following:
New Testament
Mark 3:1 And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man there which had a withered hand. 3:2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him. 3:3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth. 3:4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. 3:5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.
Old Testament
Numbers 15:32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day. 33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. 34 And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35 And the LORD said unto Moses: ‘The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.’ 36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died, as the LORD commanded Moses.
Exodus 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore, for it is holy unto you; every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Atrocious Acts of JHVH EL through Moses in the Old Testament
1. Offered an alliance of marriage with the royal family of the Hivites, Jacob's sons convince the men of a town to get circumcised. While the men are recovering, Jacob's sons slaughter them, loot the town of goods and cattle, and carry off all the women and children as slaves (Genesis 34:1-17, 24-31). 2. During the sojourn in Egypt: Despite Egyptian expertise in medicine, Jewish midwives are better and achieve higher live birth rate; Pharaoh fears demographic imbalance. Ignoring that females bear babies, not males, Pharaoh orders midwives to kill newly born Hebrew males (Exodus 1:15-22). Midwives disobey and make excuses to Pharaoh. Decades later, LORD God strikes back, allowing Pharaoh to live but killing all the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:12-14). LORD God orders that His justice be commemorated as "an ordinance for ever." This is Passover. 3. Three thousand naked golden calf worshippers massacred. "Thus saith the LORD God of Israel … slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour." After the event, Moses praises them for killing their own sons and brothers. (Exodus 32:25-29) 4. LORD God opens the earth and swallows up Korah, Dathan, Abiram, and their tents, their wives, and little ones. Another 250 men burned to death. All killed for accusing Moses of taking on airs and graces, and raising questions about the quality of his leadership. (Numbers 16:1-3, 23-35) 5. LORD God sends a plague and kills 14,700 Israelites for blaming Moses and Aaron for their handling of the Korah problem (Numbers 16:41-49). Plague halted by Aaron burning incense. 6. Balaam prophecies Hebrews will exterminate Moabites, children of Sheth; Edom, Seir; Amalek, Kenites, Asshur, Eber (Numbers 24:17-25) 7. LORD God orders, through Moses, the extermination of the male Midianites and their five kings. (Numbers 31:7-12). Why was extermination ordered? After Hebrew men fornicated with Midianite women, they caught a venereal disease and 24,000 died (Numbers 25). The Midianites had sheltered Moses when he fled from Egypt, and they gave Moses his first wife, Zipporah, who bore him his first son. (Exodus 2:15-22) Were Moses' benefactors and in-laws among those slaughtered? 8. The Midianite women and children are taken captive. Later, Moses orders that they be murdered, but spares the little virgin girls so they can be used as concubines (Numbers 31:13-18, 32-35). The Talmud Sages use these verses to justify grown men having sexual intercourse with little girls, three years old and younger. See Sex with Children by Talmud Rules. 9. LORD God orders depopulation and destruction of civilization in the Promised Land (Numbers 33:50-56); religious imagery and art work must also be destroyed. 10. LORD God commands the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" the seven nations that are in the Promised Land, "nor shew mercy unto them." In addition, the Hebrews must "destroy" everything of those cultures (Deuteronomy 7:1-6). 11. LORD God orders death for the prophet, the dreamer of dreams, and he who performs miracles — if he tries to convert Hebrews to a new faith (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). 12. LORD God orders every Israelite to kill "thy brother … or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul" if they stray from LORD God worship. "… Thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death …" (Deuteronomy 13:6-11). Compare to ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights. 13. LORD God blames "children of Belial" for seducing Israelites to other religions, and orders the massacre of seduced cities (Deuteronomy 13:12-18). 14. LORD God orders extermination of the Amaleks (Deuteronomy 25:17-19); "… thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven; thou shalt not forget it." 15. LORD God orders Hebrews to exterminate the people of Jericho (Joshua 6:1-2, 20-24); "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword." 16. LORD God orders extermination the inhabitants of Ai and their king (Joshua 8:1-2, 18-29); Twelve thousand killed. "And Joshua burnt Ai, and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day." 17. The Hebrews take captive the five Amorite kings, torture them, and hang their bodies from trees. (Joshua 10:22-27) 18. LORD God orders the Hebrews to attack and utterly destroy a multitude of cities, and kill all the inhabitants. (Joshua 10:28-43). 19. LORD God orders extermination of Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Jebusites, Hivites, and their kings; horses crippled and left to die (Joshua 11:1-9) 20. LORD God orders extermination of the Hazorites, the people of Goshen and Baalgad, the Anakims (Joshua 11: 10-23); "And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire." 21. LORD God gives military victory to Jephthah in return for the promise of a human sacrifice. As fate would have it, the victim turns out to be Jephthah's beloved daughter, his only child, but he performs the sacrifice as promised. (Judges 11:30-40) 22. LORD God sends Hebrew tribe of Judah against the Hebrew tribe of Benjamin; Judah loses 22,000 men (Judges 20:15-21) 23. LORD God sends the other Hebrew tribes against the Hebrew tribe of Benjamin; The Hebrews lose 18,000 men (Judges 20:23-25) 24. LORD God continues to send the non-Benjamin Hebrews against the Benjamin Hebrews: the remaining 25,000 Benjamin Hebrew men-at-arms are killed, and all their elders, women, children,
...
> On May 17, 7:46 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > Well since the Enlightenment we have had wars and > > revolutions, two world wars and the Cold War.
> > No doubt you will somehow still blame all of that on > > religion though.
> > >to say the religion is wrong? I think the act is wrong and immoral. But > > >such religions will eventually die out in this modern world as their > > >practitioners end up in jail.
> > That is a bizarre answer. You're not able to say > > that a murderous religion is wrong??
> > >>> There > > >>> are many paths to the Godhead, of which ours are but two.
> > >> I see. So human sacrifice is just another path to God?
> > >It's not my path, and it's not your path. Who are we to say? What > > >gives you the certainty that it isn't?
> > The belief that murder is wrong.
> You are inconsistent and willfully ignorant, in the light of the > following:
snipped examples
> New Testament
> Old Testament
More examples snipped
> Atrocious Acts of JHVH EL through Moses in the Old Testament
the environment that molded the human brain through natural selection is drastically different than the world humans currently live in
In evolutionary biology, reciprocal altruism is a form of altruism in which one organism provides a benefit to another in the expectation of future reciprocation [a human impulse towards fairness may be an instinctual bias]
Ostracism was a procedure ...where a prominent citizen could be expelled & Shunning ...the act of deliberately avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from an individual or group... [may both be instinctual biases in humans]
free riders are actors who consume more than their fair share of a resource, or shoulder less than a fair share of the costs [may have resulted in alignment of other human biases and nueral structures into forms of punishment]
a universal moral grammar, built into the brains of all humans. The grammar is a set of principles that operate on the basis of the causes and consequences of action. Thus, in the same way that we are endowed with a language faculty that consists of a universal toolkit for building possible languages, we are also endowed with a moral faculty that consists of a universal toolkit for building possible moral systems.
hence it may be hypocrytical to point out some past application, but it may be hypocrytical to point that out, I don't know...
The Savanna Principle is a theory about the evolutionary roots of the human brain. ...it asserts that the environment that molded the human brain through natural selection is drastically different than the world humans currently live in. This disparity between what man was designed to do and what he currently can do leads to a host of societal difficulties, according to the theory. For example, ancestors who craved sugary and fatty foods lived longer and were healthier than those who didn't, in a time that such things were relatively scarce. Today, the abundance of such temptations leads to obesity and heart disease.
Evolutionary Psychology strongly rejects the view of the human mind as tabula rasa, and avers instead that it is content rich and biased. The human brain, and all of its psychological mechanisms, are adapted to the EEA (environment of evolutionary adaptedness) and are therefore biased in favor of viewing and responding to the world as if it were still the EEA. The psychological mechanisms we possess in our brain today are still the same psychological mechanisms that we possessed in the EEA, just as our hand and pancreas are still the same as they were 10 000 years ago. It is not impossible to overcome this bias through conscious effort, but it is often difficult. This is why we still respond to sweets and fats today as if we still lived in the EEA where such high-calorie foods were rare and malnutrition was an imminent problem for survival, and we have the strong urge to consume a large quantity of sweets and fats (even though many of us can consciously overcome the urge) (Barash 1982, pp. 144–147). It is my contention that the human brain has unconscious difficulty comprehending and dealing with entities and situations that did not exist in the EEA.
For instance, one of the entities that we know for sure did not exist in the EEA is television. The fundamental principles of EP would therefore imply that humans have difficulty recognizing and dealing with TV. This indeed appears to be the case. People who watch certain types of TV shows are more satisfied with their friendships, just like they are if they have more friends or spend more time socializing with them in real life. It appears that the human brain has difficulty distinguishing between real friends and imaginary ones they see on TV, because it did not exist in the EEA (Kanazawa, 2002). It is this fundamental observation, that our brain and its psychological mechanisms are strongly biased to view and respond to the environment as if it were still the EEA, which leads to the Savanna Principle.
In evolutionary biology, reciprocal altruism is a form of altruism in which one organism provides a benefit to another in the expectation of future reciprocation. This is equivalent to the Tit for tat strategy in game theory. It would only be expected to evolve in the presence of a mechanism to identify and punish "cheaters". An example of reciprocal altruism is blood-sharing in the vampire bat, in which bats feed regurgitated blood to those who have not collected much blood themselves knowing that they themselves may someday benefit from this same donation; cheaters are remembered by the colony and ousted from this collaboration.
In a series of ground-breaking contributions to biology in the early 1970s Robert Trivers introduced the theories of reciprocal altruism (1971), parental investment (1972), and parent-offspring conflict (1974). Trivers' paper "The Evolution of Reciprocal Altruism" (1971) elaborates the mathematics of reciprocal altruism and includes human reciprocal altruism as one of the three examples used to illustrate the model, arguing that "it can be shown that the details of the psychological system that regulates this altruism can be explained by this model." In particular, Trivers argues for the following characteristics as functional processes subserving reciprocal altruism:
(1) Ostracism was a procedure under the Athenian democracy where a prominent citizen could be expelled from the city-state of Athens for ten years. While some instances clearly expressed popular anger at the victim, ostracism was often pre-emptive in character. It might be a way of diffusing a major confrontation between rival politicians by removing one of them from the scene, or of neutralising someone thought to be a threat to the state, a possible tyrant. Crucially, ostacism had no relation to the processes of justice. There was no charge or defence, and the exile was not in fact a penalty. It was simply a command from the Athenian people that one of their number be gone for ten years.
(2) Shunning is the act of deliberately avoiding association with, and habitually keeping away from an individual or group. It is a sanction against association commonly associated with religious groups following excommunication or dismembership. In some cases, the shunned person or group is considered anathema, abominable, or spiritually diseased by shunning group.
A distinct practice sometimes confused with shunning involves the severing of ties between new members and those of their friends and family who disapprove of the faith. The Church of Scientology coined the word disconnection to refer to that practice.
Shunning aims to exclude, punish, and shame a member who commits acts seen as harmful to the group, who violates the group's norms, or flees the group. Usually, shunning is done after formal excommunication or disfellowship and not before. Shunning is often intended to teach obedience, discipline disobedience/nonconformance by the shunned and to punish defiance from the shunned. Shunning can also be intended to shame such members, to compel them back into conforming membership, and to punish those who persist in violating the group's norms.
As the practice may destroy marriages, break up families, and separate children from their parents (or vice versa), it is particularly controversial. The effect of shunning can be very dramatic or even devastating on the shunnee, as it can damage or destroy the shunned member's closest familial, spousal, and social bonds. The extent to which the shunned member's larger social rights in a society are affected by such shunning can also make a dramatic difference in the effect of shunning, beyond the aforementioned costs. In cases where a group or religion is state-sanctioned, a key power, or in the majority, a shunned former member may face especially severe social, political, and/or financial costs. Some, especially researchers of mind control, brainwashing and menticide groups, identify the practice with "cult-like" or totalitarian behaviour.
Shunning contains aspects of what is known as relational aggression in the psychological literature. When used by church members and member- spouse parents against excommunicant parents it contains elements of what pyschologists call parental alienation. Extreme shunning often causes traumas to the shunned (and to their innocent dependents) similar to what is studied in the psychology of torture.
> On May 17, 8:29 am, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On May 17, 7:46 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:
> > > Well since the Enlightenment we have had wars and > > > revolutions, two world wars and the Cold War.
> > > No doubt you will somehow still blame all of that on > > > religion though.
> > > >to say the religion is wrong? I think the act is wrong and immoral. But > > > >such religions will eventually die out in this modern world as their > > > >practitioners end up in jail.
> > > That is a bizarre answer. You're not able to say > > > that a murderous religion is wrong??
> > > >>> There > > > >>> are many paths to the Godhead, of which ours are but two.
> > > >> I see. So human sacrifice is just another path to God?
> > > >It's not my path, and it's not your path. Who are we to say? What > > > >gives you the certainty that it isn't?
> > > The belief that murder is wrong.
> > You are inconsistent and willfully ignorant, in the light of the > > following:
> snipped examples
> > New Testament
> > Old Testament
> More examples snipped
> > Atrocious Acts of JHVH EL through Moses in the Old Testament
I see you demons just can't stand the light of day. LOL
saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote: > On May 17, 1:43 pm, "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso> wrote: >> To himself?
> Away from a God whose only virtue is that He doesn't exist. Such is > the JHVH EL of the Old Testament.
What is the JHVH EL? Are you mistakingly trying to prevent writing the Tetragrammon, YHVH? If so, the injunction was against utter those sacred constanants not writting them, and besides it ONLY applied to Hebrew, not English, not Aramaic, nor Greek. And it definitely did not apply to the name Jehovah with is a complete bastardization.
> saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote: > > On May 17, 1:43 pm, "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso> wrote: > >> To himself?
> > Away from a God whose only virtue is that He doesn't exist. Such is > > the JHVH EL of the Old Testament.
> What is the JHVH EL? Are you mistakingly trying to prevent writing the > Tetragrammon, YHVH? If so, the injunction was against utter those sacred > constanants not writting them, and besides it ONLY applied to Hebrew, not > English, not Aramaic, nor Greek. And it definitely did not apply to the > name Jehovah with is a complete bastardization.
You got a bad case of the brainwashing rabbi syndrome. J is just fine. It means Jod, dumbfuck. JHVH EL is the name of the demon who hates mankind. If you are a rabbinical Jew, He is your God. JHVH EL is translated as LORD God. The Hebrew letters are Jod He Vav He (space) Aleph Lambda. That is the designation for the false God throughout the Old Testament.
> On May 17, 4:38 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com> > wrote:
> > saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote: > > > On May 17, 1:43 pm, "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso> wrote: > > >> To himself?
> > > Away from a God whose only virtue is that He doesn't exist. Such is > > > the JHVH EL of the Old Testament.
> > What is the JHVH EL? Are you mistakingly trying to prevent writing the > > Tetragrammon, YHVH? If so, the injunction was against utter those sacred > > constanants not writting them, and besides it ONLY applied to Hebrew, not > > English, not Aramaic, nor Greek. And it definitely did not apply to the > > name Jehovah with is a complete bastardization.
> You got a bad case of the brainwashing rabbi syndrome. J is just > fine. It means Jod, dumbfuck. JHVH EL is the name of the demon who > hates mankind. If you are a rabbinical Jew, He is your God. JHVH EL > is translated as LORD God. The Hebrew letters are Jod He Vav He > (space) Aleph Lamed. That is the designation for the false God > throughout the Old Testament.
See correction above Lambda -> Lamed. Confusion of tongues left over from Genesis 11.