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saint7pe...@hotmail.com  
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 More options May 17, 11:29 am
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: saint7pe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 08:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 11:29 am
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
On May 17, 7:46 am, Emma <e...@newsguy.com> wrote:

You are inconsistent and willfully ignorant, in the light of the
following:

New Testament

Mark 3:1  And he entered again into the synagogue; and there was a man
there which had a withered hand.
3:2  And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath
day; that they might accuse him.
3:3  And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand
forth.
3:4  And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath
days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their
peace.
3:5  And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being
grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man,
Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was
restored whole as the other.

Old Testament

Numbers 15:32  And while the children of Israel were in the
wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks upon the sabbath day.
33  And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses
and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34  And they put him in ward, because it had not been declared what
should be done to him.
35  And the LORD said unto Moses: ‘The man shall surely be put to
death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the
camp.’
36  And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned
him with stones, and he died, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Exodus 31:14  Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore, for it is holy unto
you; every one that profaneth it shall surely be put to death; for
whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from
among his people.

Atrocious Acts of JHVH EL through Moses in the Old Testament

1.      Offered an alliance of marriage with the royal family of the
Hivites, Jacob's sons convince the men of a town to get circumcised.
While the men are recovering, Jacob's sons slaughter them, loot the
town of goods and cattle, and carry off all the women and children as
slaves (Genesis 34:1-17, 24-31).
2.      During the sojourn in Egypt: Despite Egyptian expertise in
medicine, Jewish midwives are better and achieve higher live birth
rate; Pharaoh fears demographic imbalance. Ignoring that females bear
babies, not males, Pharaoh orders midwives to kill newly born Hebrew
males (Exodus 1:15-22). Midwives disobey and make excuses to Pharaoh.
Decades later, LORD God strikes back, allowing Pharaoh to live but
killing all the firstborn of Egypt (Exodus 12:12-14). LORD God orders
that His justice be commemorated as "an ordinance for ever." This is
Passover.
3.      Three thousand naked golden calf worshippers massacred. "Thus saith
the LORD God of Israel … slay every man his brother, and every man his
companion, and every man his neighbour." After the event, Moses
praises them for killing their own sons and brothers. (Exodus
32:25-29)
4.      LORD God opens the earth and swallows up Korah, Dathan, Abiram, and
their tents, their wives, and little ones. Another 250 men burned to
death. All killed for accusing Moses of taking on airs and graces, and
raising questions about the quality of his leadership. (Numbers
16:1-3, 23-35)
5.      LORD God sends a plague and kills 14,700 Israelites for blaming
Moses and Aaron for their handling of the Korah problem (Numbers
16:41-49). Plague halted by Aaron burning incense.
6.      Balaam prophecies Hebrews will exterminate Moabites, children of
Sheth; Edom, Seir; Amalek, Kenites, Asshur, Eber (Numbers 24:17-25)
7.      LORD God orders, through Moses, the extermination of the male
Midianites and their five kings. (Numbers 31:7-12). Why was
extermination ordered? After Hebrew men fornicated with Midianite
women, they caught a venereal disease and 24,000 died (Numbers 25).
The Midianites had sheltered Moses when he fled from Egypt, and they
gave Moses his first wife, Zipporah, who bore him his first son.
(Exodus 2:15-22) Were Moses' benefactors and in-laws among those
slaughtered?
8.      The Midianite women and children are taken captive. Later, Moses
orders that they be murdered, but spares the little virgin girls so
they can be used as concubines (Numbers 31:13-18, 32-35). The Talmud
Sages use these verses to justify grown men having sexual intercourse
with little girls, three years old and younger. See Sex with Children
by Talmud Rules.
9.      LORD God orders depopulation and destruction of civilization in the
Promised Land (Numbers 33:50-56); religious imagery and art work must
also be destroyed.
10.     LORD God commands the Hebrews to "utterly destroy" the seven
nations that are in the Promised Land, "nor shew mercy unto them." In
addition, the Hebrews must "destroy" everything of those cultures
(Deuteronomy 7:1-6).
11.     LORD God orders death for the prophet, the dreamer of dreams, and
he who performs miracles — if he tries to convert Hebrews to a new
faith (Deuteronomy 13:1-5).
12.     LORD God orders every Israelite to kill "thy brother … or thy son,
or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as
thine own soul" if they stray from LORD God worship. "… Thine hand
shall be first upon him to put him to death …" (Deuteronomy 13:6-11).
Compare to ideas expressed in the Declaration of Independence and the
Bill of Rights.
13.     LORD God blames "children of Belial" for seducing Israelites to
other religions, and orders the massacre of seduced cities
(Deuteronomy 13:12-18).
14.     LORD God orders extermination of the Amaleks (Deuteronomy
25:17-19); "… thou shalt blot out the remembrance of Amalek from under
heaven; thou shalt not forget it."
15.     LORD God orders Hebrews to exterminate the people of Jericho
(Joshua 6:1-2, 20-24); "And they utterly destroyed all that was in the
city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass,
with the edge of the sword."
16.     LORD God orders extermination the inhabitants of Ai and their king
(Joshua 8:1-2, 18-29); Twelve thousand killed. "And Joshua burnt Ai,
and made it an heap for ever, even a desolation unto this day."
17.     The Hebrews take captive the five Amorite kings, torture them, and
hang their bodies from trees. (Joshua 10:22-27)
18.     LORD God orders the Hebrews to attack and utterly destroy a
multitude of cities, and kill all the inhabitants. (Joshua 10:28-43).
19.     LORD God orders extermination of Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites,
Perizzites, Jebusites, Hivites, and their kings; horses crippled and
left to die (Joshua 11:1-9)
20.     LORD God orders extermination of the Hazorites, the people of
Goshen and Baalgad, the Anakims (Joshua 11: 10-23); "And they smote
all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly
destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor
with fire."
21.     LORD God gives military victory to Jephthah in return for the
promise of a human sacrifice. As fate would have it, the victim turns
out to be Jephthah's beloved daughter, his only child, but he performs
the sacrifice as promised. (Judges 11:30-40)
22.     LORD God sends Hebrew tribe of Judah against the Hebrew tribe of
Benjamin; Judah loses 22,000 men (Judges 20:15-21)
23.     LORD God sends the other Hebrew tribes against the Hebrew tribe of
Benjamin; The Hebrews lose 18,000 men (Judges 20:23-25)
24.     LORD God continues to send the non-Benjamin Hebrews against the
Benjamin Hebrews: the remaining 25,000 Benjamin Hebrew men-at-arms are
killed, and all their elders, women, children, ...

read more »


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Immortalist  
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 More options May 17, 1:54 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 10:54:31 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 1:54 pm
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
On May 17, 8:29 am, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:

snipped examples

> New Testament

> Old Testament

More examples snipped

> Atrocious Acts of JHVH EL through Moses in the Old Testament

the environment that molded the human brain through natural selection
is drastically different than the world humans currently live in

In evolutionary biology, reciprocal altruism is a form of altruism in
which one organism provides a benefit to another in the expectation of
future reciprocation [a human impulse towards fairness may be an
instinctual bias]

Ostracism was a procedure ...where a prominent citizen could be
expelled & Shunning ...the act of deliberately avoiding association
with, and habitually keeping away from an individual or group... [may
both be instinctual biases in humans]

free riders are actors who consume more than their fair share of a
resource, or shoulder less than a fair share of the costs [may have
resulted in alignment of other human biases and nueral structures into
forms of punishment]

a universal moral grammar, built into the brains of all humans. The
grammar is a set of principles that operate on the basis of the causes
and consequences of action. Thus, in the same way that we are endowed
with a language faculty that consists of a universal toolkit for
building possible languages, we are also endowed with a moral faculty
that consists of a universal toolkit for building possible moral
systems.

hence it may be hypocrytical to point out some past application, but
it may be hypocrytical to point that out, I don't know...

The Savanna Principle is a theory about the evolutionary roots of the
human brain. ...it asserts that the environment that molded the human
brain through natural selection is drastically different than the
world humans currently live in. This disparity between what man was
designed to do and what he currently can do leads to a host of
societal difficulties, according to the theory. For example, ancestors
who craved sugary and fatty foods lived longer and were healthier than
those who didn't, in a time that such things were relatively scarce.
Today, the abundance of such temptations leads to obesity and heart
disease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savanna_principle

Evolutionary Psychology strongly rejects the view of the human mind as
tabula rasa, and avers instead that it is content rich and biased. The
human brain, and all of its psychological mechanisms, are adapted to
the EEA (environment of evolutionary adaptedness) and are therefore
biased in favor of viewing and responding to the world as if it were
still the EEA. The psychological mechanisms we possess in our brain
today are still the same psychological mechanisms that we possessed in
the EEA, just as our hand and pancreas are still the same as they were
10 000 years ago. It is not impossible to overcome this bias through
conscious effort, but it is often difficult. This is why we still
respond to sweets and fats today as if we still lived in the EEA where
such high-calorie foods were rare and malnutrition was an imminent
problem for survival, and we have the strong urge to consume a large
quantity of sweets and fats (even though many of us can consciously
overcome the urge) (Barash 1982, pp. 144–147). It is my contention
that the human brain has unconscious difficulty comprehending and
dealing with entities and situations that did not exist in the EEA.

For instance, one of the entities that we know for sure did not exist
in the EEA is television. The fundamental principles of EP would
therefore imply that humans have difficulty recognizing and dealing
with TV. This indeed appears to be the case. People who watch certain
types of TV shows are more satisfied with their friendships, just like
they are if they have more friends or spend more time socializing with
them in real life. It appears that the human brain has difficulty
distinguishing between real friends and imaginary ones they see on TV,
because it did not exist in the EEA (Kanazawa, 2002). It is this
fundamental observation, that our brain and its psychological
mechanisms are strongly biased to view and respond to the environment
as if it were still the EEA, which leads to the Savanna Principle.

http://www.lse.ac.uk/collections/MES/pdf/MDE2004.pdf

Reciprocal altruism

In evolutionary biology, reciprocal altruism is a form of altruism in
which one organism provides a benefit to another in the expectation of
future reciprocation. This is equivalent to the Tit for tat strategy
in game theory. It would only be expected to evolve in the presence of
a mechanism to identify and punish "cheaters". An example of
reciprocal altruism is blood-sharing in the vampire bat, in which bats
feed regurgitated blood to those who have not collected much blood
themselves knowing that they themselves may someday benefit from this
same donation; cheaters are remembered by the colony and ousted from
this collaboration.

In a series of ground-breaking contributions to biology in the early
1970s Robert Trivers introduced the theories of reciprocal altruism
(1971), parental investment (1972), and parent-offspring conflict
(1974). Trivers' paper "The Evolution of Reciprocal Altruism" (1971)
elaborates the mathematics of reciprocal altruism and includes human
reciprocal altruism as one of the three examples used to illustrate
the model, arguing that "it can be shown that the details of the
psychological system that regulates this altruism can be explained by
this model." In particular, Trivers argues for the following
characteristics as functional processes subserving reciprocal
altruism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reciprocal_altruism

(1) Ostracism was a procedure under the Athenian democracy where a
prominent citizen could be expelled from the city-state of Athens for
ten years. While some instances clearly expressed popular anger at the
victim, ostracism was often pre-emptive in character. It might be a
way of diffusing a major confrontation between rival politicians by
removing one of them from the scene, or of neutralising someone
thought to be a threat to the state, a possible tyrant. Crucially,
ostacism had no relation to the processes of justice. There was no
charge or defence, and the exile was not in fact a penalty. It was
simply a command from the Athenian people that one of their number be
gone for ten years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostracism

(2) Shunning is the act of deliberately avoiding association with, and
habitually keeping away from an individual or group. It is a sanction
against association commonly associated with religious groups
following excommunication or dismembership. In some cases, the shunned
person or group is considered anathema, abominable, or spiritually
diseased by shunning group.

A distinct practice sometimes confused with shunning involves the
severing of ties between new members and those of their friends and
family who disapprove of the faith. The Church of Scientology coined
the word disconnection to refer to that practice.

Shunning aims to exclude, punish, and shame a member who commits acts
seen as harmful to the group, who violates the group's norms, or flees
the group. Usually, shunning is done after formal excommunication or
disfellowship and not before. Shunning is often intended to teach
obedience, discipline disobedience/nonconformance by the shunned and
to punish defiance from the shunned. Shunning can also be intended to
shame such members, to compel them back into conforming membership,
and to punish those who persist in violating the group's norms.

As the practice may destroy marriages, break up families, and separate
children from their parents (or vice versa), it is particularly
controversial. The effect of shunning can be very dramatic or even
devastating on the shunnee, as it can damage or destroy the shunned
member's closest familial, spousal, and social bonds. The extent to
which the shunned member's larger social rights in a society are
affected by such shunning can also make a dramatic difference in the
effect of shunning, beyond the aforementioned costs. In cases where a
group or religion is state-sanctioned, a key power, or in the
majority, a shunned former member may face especially severe social,
political, and/or financial costs. Some, especially researchers of
mind control, brainwashing and menticide groups, identify the practice
with "cult-like" or totalitarian behaviour.

Shunning contains aspects of what is known as relational aggression in
the psychological literature. When used by church members and member-
spouse parents against excommunicant parents it contains elements of
what pyschologists call parental alienation. Extreme shunning often
causes traumas to the shunned (and to their innocent dependents)
similar to what is studied in the psychology of torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunning

Free rider problem
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In economics, collective bargaining, and political science, free
riders are actors who consume more than their fair share of a ...

read more »


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Discussion subject changed to "Would Moses want to convert Christians, or just kill them?" by saint7pe...@hotmail.com
saint7pe...@hotmail.com  
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 More options May 17, 3:12 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: saint7pe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:12:54 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: Would Moses want to convert Christians, or just kill them?
On May 17, 10:54 am, Immortalist <reanimater_2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I see you demons just can't stand the light of day.  LOL

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Discussion subject changed to "Would Jesus want to convert Jews?" by Onoit
Onoit  
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 More options May 17, 4:43 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:43:09 -0500
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
   To himself?

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saint7pe...@hotmail.com  
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 More options May 17, 7:17 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: saint7pe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 16:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
On May 17, 1:43 pm, "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso> wrote:

>    To himself?

Away from a God whose only virtue is that He doesn't exist.  Such is
the JHVH EL of the Old Testament.

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Darrell Stec  
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 More options May 17, 7:38 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 19:38:43 -0400
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 7:38 pm
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?

saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On May 17, 1:43 pm, "Onoit" <on...@sno.tso> wrote:
>> To himself?

> Away from a God whose only virtue is that He doesn't exist.  Such is
> the JHVH EL of the Old Testament.

What is the JHVH EL?  Are you mistakingly trying to prevent writing the
Tetragrammon, YHVH?  If so, the injunction was against utter those sacred
constanants not writting them, and besides it ONLY applied to Hebrew, not
English, not Aramaic, nor Greek.  And it definitely did not apply to the
name Jehovah with is a complete bastardization.

--
Later,
Darrell Stec      dars...@neo.rr.com

Webpage Sorcery
http://webpagesorcery.com
We Put the Magic in Your Webpages


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saint7pe...@hotmail.com  
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 More options May 17, 8:10 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: saint7pe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:10:02 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 8:10 pm
Subject: Re: Would Jesus want to convert Jews?
On May 17, 4:38 pm, Darrell Stec <darrell_s...@webpagesorcery.com>
wrote:

You got a bad case of the brainwashing rabbi syndrome.  J is just
fine.  It means Jod, dumbfuck.  JHVH EL is the name of the demon who
hates mankind.  If you are a rabbinical Jew, He is your God.  JHVH EL
is translated as LORD God.  The Hebrew letters are Jod He Vav He
(space) Aleph Lambda.  That is the designation for the false God
throughout the Old Testament.

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Discussion subject changed to "Would Moses want to convert Christians, or just kill them all?" by saint7pe...@hotmail.com
saint7pe...@hotmail.com  
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 More options May 17, 8:15 pm
Newsgroups: alt.messianic, alt.philosophy, alt.philosophy.zen, alt.bible, alt.atheism
From: saint7pe...@hotmail.com
Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 17:15:57 -0700 (PDT)
Local: Sat, May 17 2008 8:15 pm
Subject: Re: Would Moses want to convert Christians, or just kill them all?
On May 17, 5:10 pm, saint7pe...@hotmail.com wrote:

See correction above Lambda -> Lamed.  Confusion of tongues left over
from Genesis 11.

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Discussion subject changed to "Would Jesus want to convert Jews?" by Darrell Stec