Re: A GOD CHALLENGE - Revisited Pascals Wager
Hannele
> Yap wrote:
>> On Nov 14, 8:29 am, Ron Dean <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> AZ Nomad wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:56:35 -0500, Ron Dean <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ron Dean wrote:
>>>>>> Dan Listermann wrote:
>>>>>>> "Ron Dean" <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:4AFD8F3...@gmail.com...
>>>>>>>> Dan Listermann wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Ron Dean" <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:4AFD8840...@gmail.com...
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>> So you are incapable of showing ANY evidence that deities
>>>>>>>>>>> exist,
>>>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>>>> When I first posted on alt religion. I pointed out that religion
>>>>>>>>>> all religion is a matter of faith. Everyone relies upon faith
>>>>>>>>>> is some
>>>>>>>>>> cases. When a man looks at his children, he takes it of faith
>>>>>>>>>> that the
>>>>>>>>>> beautiful child is his. This means faith in his wife. When you
>>>>>>>>>> bring
>>>>>>>>>> your newborn child from the hospital, you have it on faith that
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> hospital staff members were all competent and newborns were not
>>>>>>>>>> mixed up.
>>>>>>>>> A very common theist tactic, take the ordinary use of the word
>>>>>>>>> "faith" and confuse religious faith with common confidence so
>>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>> can claim that everybody is equally superstitious. It won't
>>>>>>>>> work as
>>>>>>>>> a distraction this time. Back to the question are trying to
>>>>>>>>> avoid:
>>>>>>>>> So you are incapable of showing ANY evidence that deities exist,
>>>>>>>>> right?
>>>>>>>> From my first post on this thread, I have persistently insisted
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> religion is a matter of belief. So, why do you demand that I show
>>>>>>>> evidence for hard, empirical evidence, here when I never made
>>>>>>>> such a
>>>>>>>> claim. _You_ make this claim for me, then demand that I support
>>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>> So you admit that religious "faith" can be any old nonsense,
>>>>>>> totally
>>>>>>> devoid of anything approaching reality? Further you want to
>>>>>>> celebrate
>>>>>>> and reward this gullibility?
>>>>>> Religious faith can be nonsense. But not always. It gives its
>>>>>> members a
>>>>>> sense of self-worth, promise, peace and hope. What do you have to
>>>>>> offer
>>>>>> in place of this?
>>>>>> IOW, you are being an emissary on this NG and you have directed your
>>>>>> "missionary" efforts to me, among others. So, what do you have to
>>>>>> offer?
>>>>> I've read Pascals Wager and the critics, but the critics I've read
>>>>> don't deal with the real issue, imho.
>>>>> The believer in the final analysis is better off than the
>>>>> non-believer.
>>>>> Because, once in the grave, if the non-believer was right, he is no
>>>>> better off than the believer both go into nihility, oblivion. OTOH if
>>>>> the believer is right he is infinitely better off than the
>>>>> non-believer.
>>>>> The religion or the God which he believes is not the issue. With only
>>>>> a one in a milion or a hundred million chances he worships the right
>>>>> God, there is still a chance no matter how remote> However, a non-
>>>>> believer has no chance at all.
>>>> If you believe the wrong god, the real god will despise you and
>>>> torture
>>>> you for eternity. The nonbeliever doesn't fall into that trap.
>>> It's no different than with the grave. The non-believer rejecting all
>>> gods, will be in the same torture chamber as the believer in the wrong
>>> god. So the believer is still better off since he has a chance getting
>>> the right god.
>> Yes.
>> But what is the difference between the one million non-believers and
>> the 999,999 believers in hell together?
> >
> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
different from not being born yet.
--
Hannele, A.A #2211
Alex W
Well, there is more of you to feed the worms....
Don Martin
>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>
>Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>different from not being born yet.
My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
-
aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
Smiler
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl> wrote:
>
>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>
>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>> different from not being born yet.
>
> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>
According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they believe we'll
be going after death :-)
Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't even feel it
when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if you'll feel anything once
you're dead!
--
Smiler
The godless one
a.a.# 2279
All gods are bespoke. They're all made to
perfectly fit the prejudices of their believer
Mike Jones
[...]
> According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they believe
> we'll be going after death :-)
Its only Hell to theists, because it'll be full of us lot.
Mwu-hahaha! >:)
--
*=( http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/
*=( For all your UK news needs.
Don Martin
>
> >>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>
> >> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
> >> different from not being born yet.
>
> > My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>
> According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they believe we'll
> be going after death :-)
> Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't even feel it
> when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if you'll feel anything once
> you're dead!
No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
screwed in my coffin.
Hannele
wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl> wrote:
>
>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>
>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>> different from not being born yet.
>
> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>
Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel your
grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains: I'm opting
for cremation.
--
Hannele, A.A #2211
Christopher A. Lee
It's not the cough that carries you off,
It's the coffin they carries you off in.
AZ Nomad
Dumper's fine for me.
Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
Dakota
I'm a complete body donor. I'm donating my remains to comedy.
AZ Nomad
I'm also amused by the corpse fetish that christians demonstrate.
It's just a lousy pile of protoplasm; why do they devote so much
energy dressing it up, putting it on display, boxing it and setting aside
real estate for the damn thing? It's no more special than a spoiled
tunafish sandwich rotting in the trash.
Smiler
Yep. Just a lump of rotting meat, whether one believes in an afterlife or
not...and they say their hocus pokus magic spells over it!
I'm thinking of getting my remains put in a digester and turned into
fertilizer. At least, that way, it'll do some good for the planet.
Smiler
But they'll have to leave it for a couple of months, until it turns 'funny'
:-)
Don Martin
wrote:
Now, THAT is funny.
Smiler
Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead body.
AZ Nomad
>AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:51:51 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +0100, Don Martin
>>> <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>>>>> different from not being born yet.
>>>>
>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>
>>> Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel your
>>> grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains: I'm
>>> opting for cremation.
>>
>> Dumper's fine for me.
>> Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
>Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead body.
As long as the corpse is disposed.
Dumpster's fine with me.
Alex W.
>
> Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead body.
Necrophiliacs and beauty addicts:
Hannele
> AZ Nomad wrote:
>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:51:51 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +0100, Don Martin
>>> <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>>>>> different from not being born yet.
>>>>
>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>
>>> Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel your
>>> grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains: I'm
>>> opting for cremation.
>>
>> Dumper's fine for me.
>> Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
>
> Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead
> body.
>
Or a carnivore. ;-)
--
Hannele, A.A #2211
Alex W.
... with some fava beans and a nice Chianti?
Smiler
That's a disarming thought.
Alex W.
> Hannele wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:28:20 +0100, Smiler <Smi...@joe.king.com>
>> wrote:
>>> AZ Nomad wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:51:51 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +0100, Don Martin
>>>>> <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is
>>>>>>> no different from not being born yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel
>>>>> your grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains:
>>>>> I'm opting for cremation.
>>>>
>>>> Dumper's fine for me.
>>>> Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
>>>
>>> Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead
>>> body.
>>>
>> Or a carnivore. ;-)
>
> That's a disarming thought.
No,it's a carnal thought.
Don Martin
>Hannele wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:28:20 +0100, Smiler <Smi...@joe.king.com>
>> wrote:
>>> AZ Nomad wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:51:51 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +0100, Don Martin
>>>>> <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is
>>>>>>> no different from not being born yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel
>>>>> your grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains:
>>>>> I'm opting for cremation.
>>>>
>>>> Dumper's fine for me.
>>>> Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
>>>
>>> Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead
>>> body.
>>>
>> Or a carnivore. ;-)
>
>That's a disarming thought.
Disasterous, along with other body parts.
Hannele
> Hannele wrote:
>> On Sat, 21 Nov 2009 04:28:20 +0100, Smiler <Smi...@joe.king.com>
>> wrote:
>>> AZ Nomad wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:51:51 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 19 Nov 2009 01:43:32 +0100, Don Martin
>>>>> <drdon...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <han...@lycos.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is
>>>>>>> no different from not being born yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not as far as we're concerned. Or do you think you're gonna feel
>>>>> your grave? Besides: after death it's gonna be hot for my remains:
>>>>> I'm opting for cremation.
>>>>
>>>> Dumper's fine for me.
>>>> Or just leave my remains at the airport to be stolen.
>>>
>>> Only a necrophilliac would be able to find a use for a 'stolen' dead
>>> body.
>>>
>> Or a carnivore. ;-)
>
> That's a disarming thought.
>
It also leaves you no leg to stand on.
--
Hannele, A.A #2211
Smiler
Have a heart!
Smiler
They'll come in handy. You might kneed them someday.
Alex W.
Liver and let liver,I always say.
Hannele
Are you pulling my leg? Or did I just put my foot in it?
--
Hannele, A.A #2211
There are at least as many gods as there are believers.
Alex W.
Even though it is hard to stomach, I shall hold my tongue and
vent my spleen in an appendix to spare you having to prostate
yourself before my brains.
Don Martin
Thanks! Don't mind if I do.
Smiler
(I was hoping someone would get the double entendre!)
Well done or rare?
Would you like some breast with it?
Smiler
What gall you have!
Smiler
Your vein attempt at being humerus in this digital medium has nose effect.
Eye'd like to give you 40 lashes, but that would be a waist. Do you 'ear me?
Alex W.
In an obscure way, I am quite glad that chickens don't have
nipples....
Alex W.
You have a nerve posting this!
Alarse, poor Yorick, I do 'ear you. Your message will enter the
anals of Usenet. You shall be known as a heel who won't toe the
line!
Smiler
But they do have 'peckers' :-)
Smiler
There's a vas deferens between your cheeky skullduggery, which isn't fat,
and the tooth.
And to kneecap that, you've rectal your chances of any sole believing you.
If you want Shakespeare quotes, try (overheard in a pizza hut) "When shall
we 'three meat' again?" or "Friends, Romans, Countrymen serve me your
rears."
Alex W.
Including the girls!
<shudder>
Jimbo
>
> > >>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>
> > >> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
> > >> different from not being born yet.
>
> > > My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>
> > be going after death :-)
> > Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't even feel it
> > when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if you'll feel anything once
> > you're dead!
>
> No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
> screwed in my coffin.
It's the screwing that your family has to endure while you're being
put in your coffin that you have to worry about. Never get burial
insurance through the funeral home.
Robibnikoff
"Alex W." <ing...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1gdm4u927vhi8.184tjfgxxyiqw$.dlg@40tude.net...
Tranny fowl? Amazing!
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo & Belly Dancer Supreme
BAAWA Knight
#1557
Smiler
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>
>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>>>> different from not being born yet.
>>
>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>
>> believe we'll be going after death :-)
>> Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't even
>> feel it when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if you'll
>> feel anything once you're dead!
>
> No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
> screwed in my coffin.
How will it be lucky if you won't feel it?
It would be like being a blind man at a strip show!
Smiler
Aha! *That* explains the trannies' liking for feathers!
Alex W.
I wish I could claim that I had a tranny sister.
Oh, and did you know that Christian attempts to convert them take
place in the trannies' mission?
Smiler
They're also given a change of gear there?
They get any teeth problems seen to by tranniesdental medication.
Don Martin
>Don Martin wrote:
>> On Nov 18, 10:58 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@joe.king.com> wrote:
>>> Don Martin wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <hann...@lycos.nl>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>
>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
>>>>> different from not being born yet.
>>>
>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>
>>> According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they
>>> believe we'll be going after death :-)
>>> Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't even
>>> feel it when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if you'll
>>> feel anything once you're dead!
>>
>> No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
>> screwed in my coffin.
>
>How will it be lucky if you won't feel it?
>It would be like being a blind man at a strip show!
Not bad, if he gets to sit real close . . . . .
Smiler
> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:38:38 -0000, "Smiler" <Smi...@joe.king.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Don Martin wrote:
>>> On Nov 18, 10:58 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@joe.king.com> wrote:
>>>> Don Martin wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <hann...@lycos.nl>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>
>>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is
>>>>>> no different from not being born yet.
>>>>
>>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>
>>>> According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they
>>>> believe we'll be going after death :-)
>>>> Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't
>>>> even feel it when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if
>>>> you'll feel anything once you're dead!
>>>
>>> No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
>>> screwed in my coffin.
>>
>> How will it be lucky if you won't feel it?
>> It would be like being a blind man at a strip show!
>
> Not bad, if he gets to sit real close . . . . .
>
He'd hear his guide dog breathing heavily?
Don Martin
>Don Martin wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:38:38 -0000, "Smiler" <Smi...@joe.king.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Don Martin wrote:
>>>> On Nov 18, 10:58 pm, "Smiler" <Smi...@joe.king.com> wrote:
>>>>> Don Martin wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:29:47 +0100, Hannele <hann...@lycos.nl>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is
>>>>>>> no different from not being born yet.
>>>>>
>>>>>> My impression is that not being born yet is a good deal warmer.
>>>>>
>>>>> According to theists, it'll be a great deal warmer where they
>>>>> believe we'll be going after death :-)
>>>>> Anyway, I doubt if you'll feel the cold of the grave. You won't
>>>>> even feel it when you get screwed in your coffin ;-) I doubt if
>>>>> you'll feel anything once you're dead!
>>>>
>>>> No worries, given the long odds against my being so lucky as to get
>>>> screwed in my coffin.
>>>
>>> How will it be lucky if you won't feel it?
>>> It would be like being a blind man at a strip show!
>>
>> Not bad, if he gets to sit real close . . . . .
>>
>
>He'd hear his guide dog breathing heavily?
A little Braille, and he'd breathe heavily himself.
Smiler
He'd have to be on stage to be close enough to do that.
Unless his name is Stretch Armstrong.
Don Martin
I said, "real close," and I meant REAL close.
Smiler
Some strange strip shows you've been to, where they allow members of the
public on stage!
At most of the ones I've been to, they needed a fence to keep them OFF the
stage :-)
Don Martin
I get the senior citizen consideration.
Smiler
Senior citizens strip shows!!
Sorry, but naked 80 year olds don't appeal to me...too much like necrophilia
Don Martin
_WE_ don't get nekkid--the girls do (and the girls are not a day over 60, so
there!)
Smiler
I know that!
> the girls do (and the girls are not a day over
> 60, so there!)
>
You can show me their 'handwritten on parchment' birth certificates?
Don Martin
[ancient Asian mode on]
Ah, Assgroper, to the skilled hand, the body needs no documentation.
[ancient Asian mode off]
Smiler
[ancient Asian mode on]<grovelling>
But, Master Hoo Flung Dung, how does one learn that skill?
<\grovelling>[ancient Asian mode off]
Don Martin
[ancient Asian mode on]
Plactice. Years and years of plactice. I can lecommend it.
Smiler
[ancient Asian mode on]
Ah sole!
[ancient Asian mode off]
:-)
Smiler
Stripper-grans?
Alex W.
Both of you forgot the "glasshoppel".
Alex W.
That's altogether too much of a visual, thank you so very much.
Gack.
Don Martin
wrote:
I plefer the near-spoonerism "Assgroper".
aa #2278 If you can't be a dirty old man, what is the point of being an old man?
Smiler
Kinky wrinklies?
Alex W.
<Stringfellow naked in bed with Jo Brand>
<shudder>
Bill
> On Mon, 16 Nov 2009 07:15:58 +0100, Ron Dean <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Yap wrote:> >>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2009 18:56:35 -0500, Ron Dean <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Ron Dean wrote:
> >>>>>> Dan Listermann wrote:
> >>>>>>> "Ron Dean" <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>news:4AFD8F3...@gmail.com...
> >>>>>>>> Dan Listermann wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> "Ron Dean" <"Ron Dean"@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>>>news:4AFD8840...@gmail.com...
> >>>>>>>>> .
> >>>>>>>>>>> So you are incapable of showing ANY evidence that deities
> >>>>>>>>>>> exist,
> >>>>>>>>>>> right?
> >>>>>>>>>> When I first posted on alt religion. I pointed out that religion
> >>>>>>>>>> all religion is a matter of faith. Everyone relies upon faith
> >>>>>>>>>> is some
> >>>>>>>>>> cases. When a man looks at his children, he takes it of faith
> >>>>>>>>>> that the
> >>>>>>>>>> beautiful child is his. This means faith in his wife. When you
> >>>>>>>>>> bring
> >>>>>>>>>> your newborn child from the hospital, you have it on faith that
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> hospital staff members were all competent and newborns were not
> >>>>>>>>>> mixed up.
> >>>>>>>>> A very common theist tactic, take the ordinary use of the word
> >>>>>>>>> "faith" and confuse religious faith with common confidence so
> >>>>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>>>> can claim that everybody is equally superstitious. It won't
> >>>>>>>>> work as
> >>>>>>>>> a distraction this time. Back to the question are trying to
> >>>>>>>>> avoid:
> >>>>>>>>> So you are incapable of showing ANY evidence that deities exist,
> >>>>>>>>> right?
> >>>>>>>> From my first post on this thread, I have persistently insisted
> >>>>>>>> that
> >>>>>>>> religion is a matter of belief. So, why do you demand that I show
> >>>>>>>> evidence for hard, empirical evidence, here when I never made
> >>>>>>>> such a
> >>>>>>>> claim. _You_ make this claim for me, then demand that I support
> >>>>>>>> it.
> >>>>>>> So you admit that religious "faith" can be any old nonsense,
> >>>>>>> totally
> >>>>>>> devoid of anything approaching reality? Further you want to
> >>>>>>> celebrate
> >>>>>>> and reward this gullibility?
> >>>>>> Religious faith can be nonsense. But not always. It gives its
> >>>>>> members a
> >>>>>> sense of self-worth, promise, peace and hope. What do you have to
> >>>>>> offer
> >>>>>> in place of this?
> >>>>>> IOW, you are being an emissary on this NG and you have directed your
> >>>>>> "missionary" efforts to me, among others. So, what do you have to
> >>>>>> offer?
> >>>>> I've read Pascals Wager and the critics, but the critics I've read
> >>>>> don't deal with the real issue, imho.
> >>>>> The believer in the final analysis is better off than the
> >>>>> non-believer.
> >>>>> Because, once in the grave, if the non-believer was right, he is no
> >>>>> better off than the believer both go into nihility, oblivion. OTOH if
> >>>>> the believer is right he is infinitely better off than the
> >>>>> non-believer.
> >>>>> The religion or the God which he believes is not the issue. With only
> >>>>> a one in a milion or a hundred million chances he worships the right
> >>>>> God, there is still a chance no matter how remote> However, a non-
> >>>>> believer has no chance at all.
> >>>> If you believe the wrong god, the real god will despise you and
> >>>> torture
> >>>> you for eternity. The nonbeliever doesn't fall into that trap.
> >>> It's no different than with the grave. The non-believer rejecting all
> >>> gods, will be in the same torture chamber as the believer in the wrong
> >>> god. So the believer is still better off since he has a chance getting
> >>> the right god.
> >> Yes.
> >> But what is the difference between the one million non-believers and
> >> the 999,999 believers in hell together?
>
> > Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>
> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no
> different from not being born yet.
>
> Hannele, A.A #2211
A lot of people have wondered about that for a really long time and
now, at last, an authoritative answer. Could you refer me to your
sources in case anyone asks for scientific conformation?
Bill
duke
>> >> But what is the difference between the one million non-believers and
>> >> the 999,999 believers in hell together?
>> > Hell is the grave, nothing more.
>> Grave is not hell, grave is just the end of life. Being dead is no �
>> different from not being born yet.
>A lot of people have wondered about that for a really long time and
>now, at last, an authoritative answer. Could you refer me to your
>sources in case anyone asks for scientific conformation?
He hasn't figured out yet that the difference between the two is time to sin.
The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
Day Brown
> A lot of people have wondered about that for a really long time and
> now, at last, an authoritative answer. Could you refer me to your
> sources in case anyone asks for scientific conformation?
Bengalese Saint Ramprasad. He makes these points:
Everything you see is part of a "projected matrix" out of the mind of
Kali (his term for the Great Earth Mother, but if you have another name
or characterization for the projection equipment, we dont mind. The
point is, that SOMETHING is producing the strange phenomena seen in
quantum physics experiments.
Now: this 'projected matrix' is sense in an altered state of
consciousness. fMRI brain scans show there is a particular area of the
mind active while monks are meditating. The same region is seen active
when LSD, Mescaline, Peyote, Pscilocybes, or other entheogens have been
used.
If you've seen "The Matrix" then you have some idea of how persuasive
the illusion of reality is, which is what the Vedas have always said it
was. The Vedas also include innumerable Soma songs, so we have some idea
of what caused the altered state of consciousness. Ethnobotanist RG
Wasson, "Persephone's Quest" shows how Amanita Muscaria was used to make
Soma, and I've tried it. It is slower to come on than the other potions
mentioned above, but the effect is the same.
Now, if you dont have an altered state of consciousness, there's no
reason for you to pick up on this, which I dont mind. The Vedas say that
some of what we see are divinely created and animated forms which exist
solely as a challenge to the fulfillment of Kharma. They act and think
as they have been programmed to. While you may learn from one, you cant
teach one anything, and I do not try here.
The Vedas call them "Avatars". They do not necessarily have souls, so
they dont experience the cosmic connection monks pick up on. But for
those who have achieved an altered state of consciousness, be it from
sacred sex (Tantra), hypnotic drum, dance, prayer, meditation, and/or
sacred potions, the spiritual insights are the same.
One of which is that threats and violence are not, despite their use by
so many religions, the path to spiritual enlightenment. If you get it,
that's fine, but if not, we are not going to hassle you about it. If you
do not want to try some combination of entheogenic practice mentioned
above, that's OK; but you cannot claim there is no 'evidence' without
trying the experiment on your own neural network.
Note, the original Aryan religion did not make claims of literal truth
in any sacred text.
Smiler
I wouldn't call Jo Brand a wrinkly (yet), more of a floppy :-)
There's too much fat for there to be any wrinkles.
Stringfellow could get lost in it.
Alex W.
You've clearly given this some thought.
That's really rather disturbing....