Atheists need a church of sorts for themselves...to support moral, ethical and right living.
V
"The majority of people working in "humanitarian" religious
organizations does this probably in good faith, but most of their
leaders do not. In fact most of them deserve the attribute hypocritical
quite well."
V:
Yes, very true in many cases I run into.
"Trade curses everything it touches and even though you trade in
'messages from heaven' trade attaches itself and the whole thing
becomes cursed." Thoreau.
But don't forget the 'hypocrite atheist and secular humanist' as well
in your analysis. See the discussion below to prove the point that as
James Allen. reminds us - "Victories attained by right thought can only
be maintained by watchfulness. Many give way when success is assured
and rapidly fall back into failure."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
V wrote:
"...a true fellowship for the atheists to 'practice what they
preach'... that sounds like a sorely needed tool. I've always said that
atheists need a church of sorts for themselves, to support moral,
ethical and right living."
Panama Floyd responds:
"Bullshit. I am not that weak. The only thing I need to "support moral,
ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and compassion. That
anyone would need anything else is a mystery to me. Perhaps I'm just a
better person than they are."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
One common area we all seem to suffer from is that of egoist
judgementalism. Whenever we meet others we can tend to pigeon hole
these individuals into the following 3 groups. The person is either
judged better than us or an equal to us or below us. This is an area I
work to be mindful of and reduce it and not promote it, for it stems
from the ego. What helps me is to practice humility, practice
compassion by looking for insight into the other person suffering and
to see these types of judgments as ego based and not useful and to nip
them I the bud when they pop up.
The dictionary defines judgmental as: determination, verdict, decree,
discrimination, sagacity, wisdom, prudence, taste. To be able to form a
judgment is defined as: to have the ability to judge, make a decision,
or form an opinion objectively, authoritatively and wisely. The only
negative term I try to avoid in the definition of judgmental is
"discrimination." Prejudicial discrimination is defined as: an
unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge,
thought or reason. I try not to discriminate against others and
subscribe to "live and let live."
Lets look at Panama Floyd's claim that the only thing he needs to
"support moral, ethical and right living" is simple human empathy and
compassion. Yes, he has that right as far as 'needs,' but if we look at
his life expressed through his words - it shows a bankrupt Floyd in the
areas of moral, ethical and right living via simple human empathy and
compassion. It is as the 12 step saying goes...if you talk the talk you
have to walk the walk...for the talk to be any good.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Panama Floyd writes on the subject of human empathy and compassion to
support moral, ethical and right living:
"Then don't whine like a bitch when your butt gets fucked,"
"...Take it (bible) and shove it up that smelly little anus you're
using for a cunt."
"You're not smart enough, or brave enough to be an atheist. Keep your
idiotic dead-jew-on-a-stick, buttsuck. Fear of it is probably the only
thing keeping you from having sex with your siblings."
"Shaddap, bitch. If I want your opinion, I'll give you one."
"Go fuck yourself, Christian...Were I a violent man, I'd advocate you
all being rounded up and jailed, to keep you from ruining other lives."
"Go fuck yourself, shitstain. You come in here and insult people-and
then whine about the reception you get? Fuck, I wish it caused you
psyical pain to be so ruthlessly stupid."
"FUCK OFF ya brainless fucking twat!"
"Fuck Jesus. Your dead-jew-on-a-stick probably never existed, and if he
did, he was man-not a god. I don't take "commands" from an illiterate,
superstious Bronze Age peasant.'
"What are *you* doing back here, you dumb bitch-assed punk? Ways of
disposing with the human garbage called "missionaries" is very
definately on-topic."
"I'm just really tired of the myth that atheists have no emotional
feelings simply because we don't believe in gods. It's like they're
telling me I'm not human."
"Of course, dehumanization is the most common tool of the bigot..."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Floyd does comes through with a little humanity with his last 2
quotes. He shows his emotional makeup in his writings and gets at the
root cause of some of his hostility. Maybe people question your lack of
humanity Floyd and you are confusing this with the question of being
human? When you were a Baptist Floyd, were you as hateful? You can most
certainly be human Floyd, but not be humane. Floyd summarizes his
efforts at atheism with the truth when he writes... 'dehumanization is
the most common tool of the bigot.' You can correct your lack of
humanity Floyd by increasing your empathy and compassion as you talk
about, but fall short of actually doing Floyd.
Without spiritual values, the atheist is sunk. The conundrum of the
mind manacled, defiance based, spiritually sick atheist is this. They
need spiritual values to be at peace - yet their own defiance blocks
them from seeking and finding these values.
The atheist that only has a foundation of ego and hate will never find
peace. If any theist questioning their faith should wonder onto
alt.atheism, for instance, they could see this for themselves with many
spiritually sick example members and their projection of this spiritual
sickness and self hate onto others.
What is missing in these atheists lives?
Do they need to get religion?
Not necessarily.
As we see, many people claiming to be religious are just as bad off as
atheists or sometimes worse.
"People that practice religion are worried about going to hell - people
that practice spirituality have already been to hell and don't want to
go back."
Spiritual values is what they are short on.
Such atheists full of defiance and devoid of spiritual values are
'dogmatic skeptics', whereas atheists that are open to spiritual values
are of the order of 'skeptical skeptics.' The spiritual based atheists
have not forgotten 'All Deities reside within the human breast' as
Blake wrote. There is a world of difference between the two types of
atheists...a night and day difference. The spiritual based atheists
'deifies humanity and peace' the defiance based atheist 'deifies their
ego' and loses any connection with humanity and becomes a haggard,
shell of a human.
A lot of atheists I run into make their intellect their God. They do
not know that academic smarts are not the same as peace smarts. Until
they can transcend their ego they will never find the answer (peace)
they seek. It is the same for those that think money is all that is
standing between them and happiness. So it goes for the ego and
intellect based person that is devoid of spiritual values. Always
remember...one thing only goes so far with giving a person a good life.
Seek balance. Spiritual growth as well as humans are not perfect, but
we can all do better at being humane if we try.
See:
http://jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/index.php?topic=4.0
There are many flavors of atheists. Beside natural atheists, personal
atheists, explicit atheists, implicit atheists weak atheists and strong
atheists and bad ass atheists with attitude...Atheists can be
'spiritual based atheists' or 'defiance based atheists.' I have to
laugh sometimes when I read the fantasies of atheists that think
atheism will take over the world. It would take a different brand of
atheist to persuade many to change if they investigate the online
atheists of the usenet to any degree.
In short you must become spiritual based atheists to offer something to
the religious crowd instead of the defiance based atheists that many of
you are.
We can examine our actions to see what useful tools for finding peace
we offer to others. This evaluation says a lot about our own practice
of generating inner peace. When you practice peace promotion with
others you will reap inner peace promotion. When you practice
destroying others peace, you will reap self destruction of inner peace.
I suggest any atheists wishing to find inner peace within their life
adopt the creed of the atheists (their version of prepackaged morals)
and become secular humanists as a good first start.
The 'informal creed' of atheism.
An Atheist loves his fellow man instead of god. An Atheist believes
that heaven is something for which we should work now - here on earth
for all men together to enjoy.
An Atheist believes that he can get no help through prayer but that he
must find in himself the inner conviction, and strength to meet life,
to grapple with it, to subdue it and enjoy it.
An Atheist believes that only in a knowledge of himself and a knowledge
of his fellow man can he find the understanding that will help to a
life of fulfillment. He seeks to know himself and his fellow man rather
than to know a god. An Atheist believes that a hospital should be built
instead of a church.
An Atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said.
An Atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death.
He wants disease conquered, poverty vanquished, war eliminated. He
wants man to understand and love man.
He wants an ethical way of life. He believes that we cannot rely on a
god or channel action into prayer nor hope for an end of troubles in a
hereafter.
He believes that we are our brother's keepers; and are keepers of our
own lives; that we are responsible persons and the job is here and the
time is now."
http://www.atheists.org/Atheism/
"The Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles"
· We are committed to the application of reason and science to the
understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
· We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to
explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for
salvation.
· We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute
to the betterment of human life.
· We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is
the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites
and repressive majorities.
· We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and
state.
· We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of
resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
· We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and
with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
· We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so
that they will be able to help themselves.
· We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race,
religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or
ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
· We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future
generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other
species.
· We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our
creative talents to their fullest.
· We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
· We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to
fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to
exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and
informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
· We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity,
honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to
critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we
discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
· We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children.
We want to nourish reason and compassion.
· We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
· We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries
still to be made in the cosmos.
· We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open
to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
· We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of
despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal
significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
· We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than
despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance,
joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love
instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of
ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
· We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that
we are capable of as human beings.
Council for Secular Humanism
So again I tell you there is a great need in the atheist community for
a true fellowship or church of sorts to support moral, ethical and
right living and to guide them to practice what they preach...truth and
humanity.
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
AA#2
.
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
compare clothing and worship a MASS-MURDERING, CHILD-KILLING COLD-HEARTED
BASTARD sky pixie
fortunately aethists don't worship a MASS-MURDERING BASTARD, CHILD-KILLING
COLD-HEARTED BASTARD sky buddy
.
raven1
>"...a true fellowship for the atheists to 'practice what they
>preach'... that sounds like a sorely needed tool. I've always said that
>atheists need a church of sorts for themselves, to support moral,
>ethical and right living."
Oh stuff it already. Just because you need a crutch is no reason to
tell perfectly healthy people that they do, too.
--
"O Sybilli, si ergo
Fortibus es in ero
O Nobili! Themis trux
Sivat sinem? Causen Dux"
..andnothingbut
news:1168787104....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
But how do I reconcile that with - I will never belong to ANY
organization that would have ME as a member?
Startlemyerfieldson
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1168787104....@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Cgiorgio wrote:
"The majority of people working in "humanitarian" religious
organizations does this probably in good faith, but most of their
leaders do not. In fact most of them deserve the attribute hypocritical
quite well."
V:
Yes, very true in many cases I run into.
<Dennis Leary>
S:
Fine, now gimme my McFuckin' Food, and my McFuckin' change, so I can get
the McFuck outta here, OK?
</Dennis Leary>
V:
OK. Next? ... Would you like to try one of our combo's today?
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
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panam...@hotmail.com
You more than most, bitch-ass.
> Whenever we meet others we can tend to pigeon hole
> these individuals into the following 3 groups. The person is either
> judged better than us or an equal to us or below us. This is an area I
> work to be mindful of and reduce it and not promote it, for it stems
> from the ego. What helps me is to practice humility, practice
> compassion by looking for insight into the other person suffering and
> to see these types of judgments as ego based and not useful and to nip
> them I the bud when they pop up.
Shove your pop psychology up your ass. It doesn't take a genius to
recognice idiocy, and it's not being "judgemental" to point out idiocy
where it exists.
The "root cause" of my hostility is your idiocy and your ego, dumbass.
You think that you have something vital to say about life, but it's
just the same old `New Age' crap. The ravings of an idiot who has
discovered that traditional religion is garbage, but is too scared or
stupid to discard the supernatural in its entirety. You are a weak
shell of a human, unable to look at the evidence and face a simple
truth. That in itself would not be so bad, but the fact that you post
such tripe on a daily basis as if you have something *important* to say
is a colossal pain in the ass. No small wonder you've been kicked out
of every unmoderated area you've ever posted to. Your idiocy is
breathtakingly merciless. You ponder questions that have long been
answered, because you don't like the answers. Once again, I find myself
wishing that ignorance would cause physical pain. Perhaps such pain
would prevent you from posting your nonsense here.
-Panama Floyd, Atl.
aa#2015, Member Knights of BAAWA!
EAC Martian Commander
Plonked by Kadaitcha Man Sept 06
"..the prayer cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."
-Mark Twain
Religious societies are *less* moral than secular ones:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
SheBlewHimDidYouBlowHim
"Midjis" <midwi...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xns98B8AF49E8C4A...@216.196.109.145...
> Most atheists in my experience seem perfectly capable of living moral,
> ethical and right lives all on their own, without any sort of church.
yes, and they certainly don't need to be worshipping a MASS-MURDERING,
Robibnikoff
"V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote in
snip'
>One common area we all seem to suffer from is that of egoist
>judgementalism.
No, that would be you.
--
Robyn
Resident Witchypoo
BAAWA Knight!
#1557
NC
> One common area we all seem to suffer from is that of egoist
> judgementalism. Whenever we meet others we can tend to pigeon hole
> these individuals into the following 3 groups. The person is either
> judged better than us or an equal to us or below us.
Ever notice how you always use the word "we" where you should be writing
the word "I"?
Mark K. Bilbo
The Voices won't let him...
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
[God explaining the doctrine of free will.]
"In order not to impair human liberty, I will be ignorant
of what I know, I will thicken upon my eyes the veils
I have pierced, and in my blind clear-sightedness I will
let myself be surprised by what I have foreseen."
- Anatole France
Don Martin
<gm...@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
>On Fri, 19 Jan 2007 04:30:51 +0000, NC wrote:
>
>> "V" <vf...@aol.com> wrote:
>>> One common area we all seem to suffer from is that of egoist
>>> judgementalism. Whenever we meet others we can tend to pigeon hole
>>> these individuals into the following 3 groups. The person is either
>>> judged better than us or an equal to us or below us.
>>
>> Ever notice how you always use the word "we" where you should be writing
>> the word "I"?
>
>The Voices won't let him...
And when you have the voices, you are never alone. "We" is the only
pronoun that works in a crowd.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/