Abstinence-Only Programs Facing Extinction

John Manning

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Dec 26, 2009, 12:14:56 PM12/26/09

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Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics ï¿½ Final Nail in the Coffin

In both 2006 and 2008, Republicans took a sound beating, seemingly
losing every close election contest. While many linked this phenomena to
an unpopular president and his failed administration, it must be said
that some perennial Republican party positions are also at the root of
the partyï¿½s demise.

Funds for Abstinence Education

One such party position involves funding for abstinence education. Our
outgoing president made increased funding for abstinence education a
centerpiece of his campaign in 2000. During the Bush era funding nearly
tripled, from $73 million per year in 2001 to $204 million per year in 2008.

The Republican party also took a similar position in 2008, a position
that was certainly reinforced by the choice of Sarah Palin, an
abstinence-only proponent for vice-president. That stance appeared as a
plank in the platform alongside another party position, support for
programs demonstrating a track record of success.

WikipediaThis stance came in spite of growing concerns over the
effectiveness of abstinence education programs. We noted in a prior
article that ï¿½abstinence-only education has been losing steam in recent
years.ï¿½

The web site WebMD Health News indicated that ï¿½Seventeen states,
including California, have opted out of the programs, choosing to forgo
federal funds and instead teach about abstinence along with
contraception, including condom use.ï¿½

We also referenced an Associated Press article that confirmed the data
noting ï¿½that participation in the program is down 40 percent over two
years.ï¿½ States opting not to partake in the program meant that nearly
half of all funds for such programming remained unclaimed, this despite
the fact that most states were experiencing enormous funding shortfalls.

Effectiveness of Program

Previously, when discussing abstinence-only education, most people would
reference a recent summary by the Cochrane Collaboration. The Cochrane
folks studied 13 abstinence-only education programs ï¿½ they could not
find one that showed an ï¿½enduring effectï¿½ on teenï¿½s sexual behavior.

In addition to the Cochrane study, another federally funded study of
four abstinence-only programs by the Mathematica Policy Research Inc.,
published in April of 2007, revealed similar results. The research group
found that ï¿½participants had just as many sexual partners as
nonparticipants and had sex at the same median age as nonparticipants.ï¿½
In other words, abstinence education programs did nothing favorable ï¿½
the result was the same as if there were no program being offered at all.

Now a third study, this by Janet E. Rosenbaum of the Johns Hopkins
Bloomberg School of Public Health, revealed some of the most troubling
data of all. A national longitudinal study of adolescents, specifically
934 high school students, examined one of the factors used as a
measurement of success for abstinence-only education programs, the
virginity pledge.

Final Nail in the Coffin

In the most recent study, researchers compared teens who had taken the
virginity pledge to those who had not taken a pledge. The researchers
found results similar to the aforementioned studies.

First, the rate of the teens taking part in sex was the same. Those
taking the virginity pledge were just as likely to have intercourse. The
only positive, statistically small, was that those taking the pledge had
0.1 fewer sex partners over the five year study than did those who did
not take such a pledge.

However, two other findings were most damning. First, those taking the
virginity pledge were less likely to protect themselves. Pledge takers
were found to be less frequent users of condoms and other forms of birth
control.

Therefore, those youngsters who took the virginity pledge were not only
just as likely to have intercourse, they ultimately were more likely to
take part in sex in an unsafe manner. This has led experts to conclude
that the lessons students take from their abstinence-only education
programs is a negative and/or faulty view of contraception.

Second, and most importantly, virginity pledges are one of the
measurement tools for determining if the abstinence education program is
effective. For these federal funded programs, the government has counted
pledges as data that the program is effective.

Rosenbaum summarizes the data succinctly, ï¿½Abstinence-only education is
required to give inaccurate information. Teens are savvy consumers of
information and know what they are getting.ï¿½

Time to Put an End to Program Funding

Ellen Goodman, a national columnist, offered this assessment of the
entire abstinence-only education movement.

ï¿½Our investment in abstinence-only may not be a scam on the scale of
Bernie Madoff. But this industry has had standards for truth as loose as
some mortgage lenders. All in all, abstinence-only education has become
emblematic of the rule of ideology over science.ï¿½

While Goodman points to our current president as the source of ideology
over science, it is important to recognize that it is not a Bush
position, but a Republican position. It is one that may well find its
way into the next presidential party platform if certain constituents
have their way.

If it does, then people must speak up once again ï¿½ as Goodman writes:
ï¿½What the overwhelming majority of protective parents actually want is
not a political battle. They want teens to delay sex and to have honest
information about sexuality, including contraception.ï¿½

Recent data makes it clear ï¿½ the only way forward towards these
objectives is through programs that combine comprehensive sex education
lessons.

Links to studies here:
http://www.openeducation.net/2009/01/05/abstinence-only-sex-education-statistics-final-nail-in-the-coffin/

duke

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Dec 26, 2009, 2:53:39 PM12/26/09

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On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

>Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin

Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.

The Dukester, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****

Andre Lieven

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Dec 26, 2009, 3:02:07 PM12/26/09

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dumbass duke splattered:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.

"That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without
evidence." Christopher Hitchens.

Five Years of Abstinence-Only-Until-Marriage Education: Assessing the
Impact

Sexual Behaviors—Six evaluations measured short-term changes in
sexual behavior.

* Three of six programs had no impact on sexual behavior (California,
Maryland, and Missouri).
* Two of six programs reported increases in sexual behavior from pre-
to
post-test (Florida and Iowa). It was unclear whether the increases
were
due to youth's maturation or to a program's effect, as none of these
evaluations included a comparison group.
* One of the six programs showed mixed results (Pennsylvania).**

Sexual Behavior—Five programs measured long-term impacts on sexual
behavior.

No evaluation demonstrated any impact on reducing teens' sexual
behavior
at follow-up, three to 17 months after the program ended (Arizona,
California,
Minnesota, Missouri, or Pennsylvania's LaSalle Program).

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=623&Itemid=177

Poor dumbass dook, still 100% WRONG...

Andre

Mike Painter

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Dec 26, 2009, 6:45:50 PM12/26/09

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Andre Lieven wrote:
> dumbass duke splattered:
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning
>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>

>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics ? Final Nail in the Coffin

>>
>> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>
> "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without
> evidence." Christopher Hitchens.
>
> Five Years of Abstinence-Only-Until-Marriage Education: Assessing the
> Impact
>

> Sexual Behaviors-Six evaluations measured short-term changes in

> sexual behavior.
>
> * Three of six programs had no impact on sexual behavior (California,
> Maryland, and Missouri).
> * Two of six programs reported increases in sexual behavior from pre-
> to
> post-test (Florida and Iowa). It was unclear whether the increases
> were
> due to youth's maturation or to a program's effect, as none of these
> evaluations included a comparison group.
> * One of the six programs showed mixed results (Pennsylvania).**
>

> Sexual Behavior-Five programs measured long-term impacts on sexual

> behavior.
>
> No evaluation demonstrated any impact on reducing teens' sexual
> behavior
> at follow-up, three to 17 months after the program ended (Arizona,
> California,
> Minnesota, Missouri, or Pennsylvania's LaSalle Program).
>
> http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=623&Itemid=177
>
> Poor dumbass dook, still 100% WRONG...

I saw a study several years ago that implied such programs led to earlier
marriage and early marriage remains the number one predictor of divorce.

It sdeems how ever that some churches are now suggesting that early marriage
is the solution.

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 26, 2009, 7:20:47 PM12/26/09

to

In article <rMOdnVsCoawM2avW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin
>

� The Roman Catholic Church tried to deal with God's creation of the
human sex drive in the 12th century by implementing the Vow of Chastity,
but it eventually turned into a $2,100,000,000 train wreck.

"The devil never harmed the church so much as when the church herself
adopted the vow of celibacy."
- - Petrus Comestor (DOB ?, died c, �AD1178 in Paris)

>
> In both 2006 and 2008, Republicans took a sound beating, seemingly
> losing every close election contest. While many linked this phenomena to
> an unpopular president and his failed administration, it must be said
> that some perennial Republican party positions are also at the root of

> the party�s demise.

>
>
> Funds for Abstinence Education
>
> One such party position involves funding for abstinence education. Our
> outgoing president made increased funding for abstinence education a
> centerpiece of his campaign in 2000. During the Bush era funding nearly
> tripled, from $73 million per year in 2001 to $204 million per year in 2008.
>
> The Republican party also took a similar position in 2008, a position
> that was certainly reinforced by the choice of Sarah Palin, an
> abstinence-only proponent for vice-president.

� Sarah's daughter is a good example of how well abstinence-only sex-ed works.

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 26, 2009, 7:25:13 PM12/26/09

to

In article <tcqcj5l20laq6eisp...@4ax.com>, duke
<duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
wrote:
>
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>

� Not here in SoCal Duke.

Virgil

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Dec 27, 2009, 1:46:46 AM12/27/09

to

In article <tcqcj5l20laq6eisp...@4ax.com>,
duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
> wrote:
>
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.

Those who practice that sort to abstinence are too often called parents.

Father Haskell

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Dec 27, 2009, 1:50:26 AM12/27/09

to

On Dec 26, 2:53 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics – Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.

Don't kid yourself.

Syd M.

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Dec 27, 2009, 3:22:55 AM12/27/09

to

On Dec 26, 2:53 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics – Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>

Well, bully for them.
Too bad is still doesn't work.

PDW

Syd M.

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Dec 27, 2009, 3:24:38 AM12/27/09

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He has too; No body else will listen to him.

PDW

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 27, 2009, 6:41:29 AM12/27/09

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In article <Virgil-56551F....@bignews.usenetmonster.com>,
Virgil <Vir...@home.esc> wrote:

> In article <tcqcj5l20laq6eisp...@4ax.com>,
> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin
> >
> > Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>

> Those who practice that sort of abstinence are too often called parents.

� Good one Virgil. Sarah Palin's daughter is a good example.

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 27, 2009, 6:42:38 AM12/27/09

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In article
<f973d14f-7938-4e57...@l2g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>, Father
Haskell <father...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Dec 26, 2:53=A0pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> =
> wrote:
> > >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin

> >
> > Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>
> Don't kid yourself.

� maybe he trying to kid us?

j-rod

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Dec 27, 2009, 9:25:56 AM12/27/09

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That reminds me of an old joke.

What do you call a woman that uses the rhythm method?

Mother.

JAM

Mike Painter

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Dec 27, 2009, 2:12:38 PM12/27/09

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j-rod wrote:
> Virgil wrote:
>>
>> In article <tcqcj5l20laq6eisp...@4ax.com>,
>> duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics - Final Nail in the Coffin

>>>
>>> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>>
>> Those who practice that sort to abstinence are too often called
>> parents.
>
> That reminds me of an old joke.
>
> What do you call a woman that uses the rhythm method?
>

A friend of mine picked up a used book dealing with the rhythm method.
It was hard bound small format with lots and lots of pictures and charts, a
real users manual.
Inscribed inside was a message that said "I hope the next user has better
luck, I become a father in July."

Not that I have anything against a good rhythm.

SkyEyes

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Dec 27, 2009, 3:05:49 PM12/27/09

to

> >http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=vi...

>
> > Poor dumbass dook, still 100% WRONG...
>
> I saw a study several years ago that implied such programs led to earlier
> marriage and early marriage remains the number one predictor of divorce.
>
> It sdeems how ever that some churches are now suggesting that early marriage
> is the solution.

They like to get you while you're young and still crazy from
hormones. You'll promise *anything* to get laid when you're in your
late teens. Testify. I got married at 19 and *joined the catholic
church* because I wanted to get laid. About three years later the
worst of the hormones wore off. I woke up one morning, shook myself
like a dog, and said, "What was I *thinking*???"

Brenda Nelson, A.A.#34
BAAWA Knight
EAC Professor of Feline Thermometrics and Cat-Herding
skyeyes nine at cox dot net

SkyEyes

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Dec 27, 2009, 3:08:50 PM12/27/09

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Hell, it doesn't even work in countries where they execute you for
having premarital sex. Kids have been having unmarried sex since
before our species began walking upright. Why these nutjobs think
that some "abstinence ed" is going to keep them from doing it is
beyond me.

haiku jones

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Dec 27, 2009, 4:02:31 PM12/27/09

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But what are DOGS thinking when they shake
themselves like dogs? "Geez, do I need to hump
legs all THAT bad?"

Haiku Jones

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 27, 2009, 4:34:40 PM12/27/09

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� correctomundo

WangoTango

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Dec 28, 2009, 10:30:14 AM12/28/09

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In article <tcqcj5l20laq6eisp...@4ax.com>, duckgumbo32
@cox.net says...

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics ? Final Nail in the Coffin

>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.

Really?
All the unwed mothers in this state are good Christian girls.
I guess it is just the boys that aren't getting laid.
Maybe if their parents had taught them more about condoms and less about
talking snakes they could have avoided the unwanted pregnancy....

JohnN

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Dec 28, 2009, 11:15:04 AM12/28/09

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On Dec 26, 12:14 pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics – Final Nail in the Coffin
>

Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
programs. So say good-bye to AOSE.

JohnN

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 28, 2009, 5:30:51 PM12/28/09

to

In article <MPG.25a29910a...@news.east.earthlink.net>,
WangoTango <Asga...@mindspring.com> wrote:

� Guffaw! good one.

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 28, 2009, 5:33:58 PM12/28/09

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In article
<8c2445c8-d077-44d8...@p32g2000vbi.googlegroups.com>, JohnN
<jnor...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin

> >
>
> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> programs.

� What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs
help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?

> So say good-bye to AOSE.
>
> JohnN

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org

Alan Ford

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Dec 28, 2009, 5:41:15 PM12/28/09

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ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>
>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>> programs.
>

> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?

Send her to me.

--
If you don't beat your meat
You can't have any pudding
How can you have any pudding
If you don't beat your meat?

hypa...@comcast.net

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Dec 29, 2009, 12:20:06 AM12/29/09

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On Dec 26, 2:53 pm, duke <duckgumb...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics – Final Nail in the Coffin
>
> Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>

He really is dumb enough to believe that. All the
abstinence programs have faied. The kids promise
not to have sex, then most of them have sex.

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 29, 2009, 6:25:58 PM12/29/09

to

In article <hhbc6b$9a7$3...@news.eternal-september.org>, Alan Ford
<zzz...@qqq.net> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>
> >> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
> >>>
> >> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> >> programs.
> >

> > � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

> > help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>
>
> Send her to me.

� her?

Father Haskell

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Dec 29, 2009, 6:28:25 PM12/29/09

to

Sadly so, considering we still have christians.

Alan Ford

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Dec 29, 2009, 7:12:47 PM12/29/09

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>>>
>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>> programs.

>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>
>> Send her to me.
>

> ï¿½ her?

Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...

Don Martin

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Dec 29, 2009, 8:43:27 PM12/29/09

to

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 16:12:47 -0800, Alan Ford <zzz...@qqq.net> wrote:

>�R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>
>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>>>>
>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>>> programs.

>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>
>>> Send her to me.
>>

>> � her?

>
>Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
>alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...

I wouldn't wish J on any 17-year-old.

-

aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/

Wexford

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Dec 29, 2009, 9:50:33 PM12/29/09

to

Some years ago, I got into a discussion of psychological addictions
with a psychologist (a Ph D) where I work. One of my employees had
asked to be relieved of an assignment that would take him to Biloxie,
Ms., for a few weeks. He complained that he was a gambling addict, and
the casinos were too close to the hotel. I went to the Psychologist
because I wanted a bit more information about the problem from an
expert. We discussed it for a while. He was skeptical of the
"addition" label, arguing that it was more an obsession than an
addiction, certainly nothing like heroine or meth addiction. I
mentioned that Sex Addition seemed to be the latest buzz word. I was
hearing references to it every day on television. "You know what the
scientific name for a sex addict is?" he said, "Mammal."

John Manning

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Dec 30, 2009, 7:56:21 AM12/30/09

to

Alan Ford wrote:
> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:
>
>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>>>>
>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>>> programs.
>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs
>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>
>>> Send her to me.
>>
>> ï¿½ her?
>
> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>

I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

satyr

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Dec 30, 2009, 1:43:11 PM12/30/09

to

On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 13:53:39 -0600, duke <duckg...@cox.net> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:14:56 -0200, John Manning <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>>Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics � Final Nail in the Coffin

>
>Christian youth are turning to abstinence in their life styles.
>

Americans are abstaining from church in record numbers.
--
satyr #1953
Chairman, EAC Church Taxation Subcommittee
Director, Gideon Bible Alternative Fuel Project
Supervisor, EAC Fossil Casting Lab

Liquid Grace

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Dec 30, 2009, 11:33:06 PM12/30/09

to

On Dec 29, 4:20 pm, "hypati...@comcast.net" <hypati...@comcast.net>
wrote:

Well, of course they do. I'm surprised even Duke is that dumb.

Teenagers will have sex. They will have it early and they will have it
often and they will have it anywhere they can find that's reasonably
private.

They are not born knowing how to use BC, so you have to teach them.
The biological imparative is just that - imparative. You won't
reliably stop it - maybe in a very few cases but not in the majority.

Cheers,
Grace

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 31, 2009, 8:02:23 AM12/31/09

to

In article <hhe5tv$aac$2...@news.eternal-september.org>, Alan Ford
<zzz...@qqq.net> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>
> >>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
> >>>>>
> >>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> >>>> programs.

> >>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

> >>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>
> >> Send her to me.
> >

> > � her?

>
> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...

� Different strokes for different folks. cheers Alan.

�R.L.Measures

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Dec 31, 2009, 8:03:29 AM12/31/09

to

In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> Alan Ford wrote:
> > �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >
> >>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> >>>>> programs.

> >>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

> >>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>
> >>> Send her to me.
> >>

> >> � her?

> >
> > Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> > alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >
>
> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

� quite

John Manning

unread,

Dec 31, 2009, 8:24:36 AM12/31/09

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>
>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>
>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.
>

> ï¿½ quite
>

Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

teresita

unread,

Dec 31, 2009, 9:25:46 AM12/31/09

to

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 20:33:06 -0800, Liquid Grace wrote:

> Teenagers will have sex. They will have it early and they will have it
> often and they will have it anywhere they can find that's reasonably
> private.

"...And we'd steal away every chance we could
To the backroom, the alley, the trusty woods
I used her she used me
But neither one cared
We were getting our share
Workin' on our night moves
Trying to lose the awkward teenage blues..." (Bob Segar, Satanic Rocker)

--
Teresita
http://hackylinux.blogspot.com/

Liquid Grace

unread,

Dec 31, 2009, 6:56:30 PM12/31/09

to

Well, Bob Seger, yes. Satanic? Not so much.

What, exactly, is your point?

Cheers,
Grace

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 1, 2010, 9:28:40 AM1/1/10

to

In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>
> >>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> >>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

> >>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>> � her?

> >>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> >>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>
> >> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.
> >

> > � quite

> >
>
>
> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

� Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have
never dated one.

Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
to atheism because they are miffed that both
Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.

later

John Manning

unread,

Jan 1, 2010, 9:40:38 AM1/1/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy who needs

>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>
>>
>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?
>

> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

> never dated one.
>
> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>
> later
>

Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
you are as a gay man?

If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 1, 2010, 7:08:19 PM1/1/10

to

In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
> >>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

who needs
> >>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>> � her?

> >>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> >>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>
> >>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>> � quite

> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?
> >

> > � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

> > never dated one.
> >
> > Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
> > to atheism because they are miffed that both
> > Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >
> > later
> >
>
>
> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
> you are as a gay man?

� hardly.

>
> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

� for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -
except in Utah of course.

John Manning

unread,

Jan 1, 2010, 7:17:26 PM1/1/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Education
>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

> who needs
>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>
>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

>>> never dated one.
>>>
>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>
>>> later
>>>
>>
>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
>> you are as a gay man?
>

> ï¿½ hardly.

>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?
>

> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

> except in Utah of course.
>

According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
the courage to admit who you are.

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 1, 2010, 9:47:58 PM1/1/10

to

In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
> > the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
Education
> >>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

> > who needs
> >>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
> >>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>> � quite

> >>>>>
> >>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

> >>> never dated one.
> >>>
> >>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
> >>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>
> >>> later
> >>>
> >>
> >> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
> >> you are as a gay man?
> >

> > � hardly.

> >> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
> >> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> >> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?
> >

> > � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

> > except in Utah of course.
> >
>
>
> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
> the courage to admit who you are.

� _____

SkyEyes

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 12:39:01 AM1/2/10

to

On Jan 1, 5:08 pm, r...@somis.org (•R.L.Measures) wrote:
> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qGdn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > > In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HWnZ2dnUVZ_ohi4...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbWnZ2dnUVZ_rZi4...@giganews.com>, John Manning

That's only true if you limit your view to Europe and North America.
Other places in the world had different marriage customs, and some
still do today.

John Manning

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 7:01:37 AM1/2/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gays in
>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>
>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>
>>>>> later
>>>>>
>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>
>>
>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
>> the courage to admit who you are.
>

> ï¿½ _____
>

This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
somehow superior to gays.

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 10:20:28 AM1/2/10

to

In article
<62000fc3-c279-4707...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Jan 1, 5:08=A0pm, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qGdn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> > > =95R.L.Measures wrote:
> > > > In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HWnZ2dnUVZ_ohi4...@giganews.com>, John Mann=
> ing
> > > > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > >> =95R.L.Measures wrote:
> > > >>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbWnZ2dnUVZ_rZi4...@giganews.com>, John Ma=

> nning
> > > >>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > >>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> > > >>>>> =95R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:
> >
> > > >>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=3DA0pm, John Manning <jrobe...@terra.com.br>=
> wrote:
> > > >>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =3D96 Final Nail in
> > the Coffin
> >
> > > >>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex Ed=
> ucation
> > > >>>>>>>>> programs. =A0
> > > >>>>>>>> =95 =A0What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a b=

> oy
> > who needs
> > > >>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> > > >>>>>>> Send her to me.

> > > >>>>>> =95 her?
> > > >>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted gay=

> s in
> > > >>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >
> > > >>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> > > >>> =95 =A0quite

> >
> > > >> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?
> >

> > > > =95 =A0Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I =
> have
> > > > never dated one.
> >
> > > > Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys t=
> urn

> > > > to atheism because they are miffed that both
> > > > Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >
> > > > later
> >

> > > Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be wh=

> o
> > > you are as a gay man?
> >

> > =95 =A0hardly. =A0
> >
> >
> >
> > > If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now i=

> s
> > > the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> > > having complete equal status in marriage, eh?
> >

> > =95 =A0for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman=

> -
> > except in Utah of course.
>
> That's only true if you limit your view to Europe and North America.
> Other places in the world had different marriage customs, and some
> still do today.
>

** Good point Brenda. Adult, male Muslims can have up to 4 female wives each.

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 10:22:57 AM1/2/10

to

In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
Manning
> >>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
<jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
> >>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
> > Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

> >>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
gays in
> >>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

> >>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
> >>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> later
> >>>>>
> >>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
> >>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>> � hardly.

> >>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
> >>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> >>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

> >>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>
> >>
> >> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
> >> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
> >> the courage to admit who you are.
> >

> > � _____

> >
>
>
> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> somehow superior to gays.

� I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of words.

John Manning

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 10:36:43 AM1/2/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
> Manning
>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
>>>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
>>> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

>>>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
> gays in
>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

>>>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero guys turn
>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly be who
>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps now is
>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

>>>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>>>
>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

>>> ï¿½ _____

>>>
>>
>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
>> somehow superior to gays.
>

> ï¿½ I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of words.
>

That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
injustice is more important than equal human rights.

Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
less deserving of complete equal rights.

Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
your likely latent homosexuality.

SkyEyes

unread,

Jan 2, 2010, 4:13:47 PM1/2/10

to

On Jan 2, 8:20 am, r...@somis.org (•R.L.Measures) wrote:
> In article

> <62000fc3-c279-4707-8c8d-bb8bd239e...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> SkyEyes <skyey...@cox.net> wrote:

> > That's only true if you limit your view to Europe and North America.
> > Other places in the world had different marriage customs, and some
> > still do today.
>
> ** Good point Brenda. Adult, male Muslims can have up to 4 female wives each.

And it's traditional practice in Tibet (where women are scarce) that a
woman have multiple husbands - usually brothers.

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 4, 2010, 9:53:23 AM1/4/10

to

In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John
Manning
> >>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
> > Manning
> >>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
> >>>>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
> >>> Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

> >>>>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
> > gays in
> >>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

> >>>>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
guys turn
> >>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> later
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
be who
> >>>>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>>>> � hardly.

> >>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
now is
> >>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> >>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>>>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

> >>>>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>>>
> >>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
> >>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
> >>>> the courage to admit who you are.

> >>> � _____

> >>>
> >>
> >> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
> >> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
> >> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> >> somehow superior to gays.
> >

> > � I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of words.

> >
>
>
> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

� heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

>
> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
> less deserving of complete equal rights.
>

� false.

> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
> your likely latent homosexuality.

� Zzzzzz

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 4, 2010, 9:56:11 AM1/4/10

to

In article
<05a8851f-c8d4-49d9...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net> wrote:

> On Jan 2, 8:20=A0am, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> > In article
> > <62000fc3-c279-4707-8c8d-bb8bd239e...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SkyEyes <skyey...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > > That's only true if you limit your view to Europe and North America.
> > > Other places in the world had different marriage customs, and some
> > > still do today.
> >

> > ** =A0Good point Brenda. =A0Adult, male Muslims can have up to 4 female w=

> ives each.
>
> And it's traditional practice in Tibet (where women are scarce) that a
> woman have multiple husbands - usually brothers.
>

** I knew about polyandry in Tibet but I did not know about the incest
aspect of it.

cheers Brenda

John Manning

unread,

Jan 4, 2010, 10:37:33 AM1/4/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John
> Manning
>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
>>>>>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
>>>>> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

>>>>>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
>>> gays in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but I have

>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
> guys turn
>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
> be who
>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>>>>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
> now is
>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>>>>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one woman -

>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day you'll have
>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

>>>>> ï¿½ _____

>>>>>
>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
>>>> somehow superior to gays.

>>> ï¿½ I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of words.

>>>
>>
>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.
>

> ï¿½ heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

Even though this has repeatedly been pointed out to him, he persists to
use 'word definition' as a cover for hid hateful homophobic bigotry.

>> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
>> less deserving of complete equal rights.
>>

> ï¿½ false.
>

Now Mr Measures denies the reality that people in the past who

considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be less deserving of

complete equal rights were bigots just like he is.

>> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
>> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
>> your likely latent homosexuality.
>

> ï¿½ Zzzzzz
>

When he gets exposed this is the kind of reaction one can expect from a
hateful bigot like Rich Measures who would deny gays equal rights, equal
protection and equal treatment [including the status of marriage] under
the law.

Mr Measures runs from the scientific reality that hateful homophobic
bigots like him are most likely latent homosexuals themselves.

Hannele

unread,

Jan 4, 2010, 6:40:50 PM1/4/10

to

Incest? She's not marrying her brothers, but her husbands are brothers of
each others.

--
Hannele, A.A #2211

There are at least as many gods as there are believers.

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 1:20:07 PM1/5/10

to

In article <S6udnXH4Trzdlt_W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> > In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >
> >> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> >>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John
Manning
> >>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John
> > Manning
> >>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
> >>> Manning
> >>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> >>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
> >>>>>>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
> >>>>> Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

> >>>>>>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
> >>> gays in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>>>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

I have
> >>>>>>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
> > guys turn
> >>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> later
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
> > be who
> >>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>>>>>> � hardly.

> >>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
> > now is
> >>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
> >>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>>>>>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

woman -
> >>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
> >>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
you'll have
> >>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

> >>>>> � _____

> >>>>>
> >>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
> >>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
> >>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> >>>> somehow superior to gays.

> >>> � I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

words.
> >>>
> >>
> >> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
> >> injustice is more important than equal human rights.
> >

> > � heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

>
>
> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

� who does he think he's fooling?

>
> Even though this has repeatedly been pointed out to him, he persists to
> use 'word definition' as a cover for hid hateful homophobic bigotry.
>
>
> >> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
> >> less deserving of complete equal rights.
> >>

> > � false.

> >
>
>
> Now Mr Measures denies the reality that people in the past who
> considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be less deserving of
> complete equal rights were bigots just like he is.
>
>
>
> >> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
> >> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
> >> your likely latent homosexuality.
> >

> > � Zzzzzz

> >
>
>
> When he gets exposed this is the kind of reaction one can expect from a
> hateful bigot like Rich Measures who would deny gays equal rights, equal
> protection and equal treatment [including the status of marriage] under
> the law.
>
> Mr Measures runs from the scientific reality that hateful homophobic
> bigots like him are most likely latent homosexuals themselves.

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 1:26:53 PM1/5/10

to

In article <op.u5072...@laptophannele.lan>, Hannele
<han...@lycos.nl> wrote:

> On Mon, 04 Jan 2010 15:56:11 +0100, �R.L.Measures <r...@somis.org> wrote:
>
> > In article
> > <05a8851f-c8d4-49d9...@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
> > SkyEyes <skye...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 2, 8:20=A0am, r...@somis.org (=95R.L.Measures) wrote:
> >> > In article
> >> > <62000fc3-c279-4707-8c8d-bb8bd239e...@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > SkyEyes <skyey...@cox.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > That's only true if you limit your view to Europe and North America.
> >> > > Other places in the world had different marriage customs, and some
> >> > > still do today.
> >> >
> >> > ** =A0Good point Brenda. =A0Adult, male Muslims can have up to 4
> >> female w=
> >> ives each.
> >>
> >> And it's traditional practice in Tibet (where women are scarce) that a
> >> woman have multiple husbands - usually brothers.
> >>
> > ** I knew about polyandry in Tibet but I did not know about the incest
> > aspect of it.
> >
> >
> > cheers Brenda
> >
> Incest? She's not marrying her brothers, but her husbands are brothers of
> each others.

� I was wrong, but anyway you slice it, it's all in the family.

John Manning

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 1:34:42 PM1/5/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <S6udnXH4Trzdlt_W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John
> Manning
>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John
>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
>>>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final Nail in
>>>>>>>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
>>>>>>> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to meet a boy

>>>>>>>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
>>>>> gays in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

> I have
>>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
>>> guys turn
>>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
>>> be who
>>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
>>> now is
>>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry against gays
>>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

> woman -
>>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic bigotry is
>>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
> you'll have
>>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

>>>>>>> ï¿½ _____

>>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
>>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human rights
>>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
>>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

>>>>> ï¿½ I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

> words.
>>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
>>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

>>> ï¿½ heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

>>
>> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
>> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
>> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

>
> ï¿½ who does he think he's fooling?

Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

Hateful bigots like Rich Measures will grasp at any flimsy straws and
even resort to lying to justify their hateful denial of complete equal
rights to fellow human beings they consider to be less worthy.

>> Even though this has repeatedly been pointed out to him, he persists to
>> use 'word definition' as a cover for hid hateful homophobic bigotry.
>>
>>
>>>> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
>>>> less deserving of complete equal rights.
>>>>

>>> ï¿½ false.

>>>
>>
>> Now Mr Measures denies the reality that people in the past who
>> considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be less deserving of
>> complete equal rights were bigots just like he is.
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
>>>> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
>>>> your likely latent homosexuality.

>>> ï¿½ Zzzzzz

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 5:44:06 PM1/5/10

to

In article <YvOdnZcPq-TbG97W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> >>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final
Nail in
> >>>>>>>>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
> >>>>>>> Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to

meet a boy
> >>>>>>>>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
> >>>>> gays in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>>>>>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

> > I have
> >>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
> >>> guys turn
> >>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> later
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
> >>> be who
> >>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>>>>>>>> � hardly.

> >>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
> >>> now is
> >>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry
against gays
> >>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>>>>>>>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

> > woman -
> >>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic
bigotry is
> >>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
> > you'll have
> >>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

> >>>>>>> � _____

> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
> >>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human
rights
> >>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> >>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

> >>>>> � I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

> > words.
> >>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
> >>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

> >>> � heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

> >>
> >> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
> >> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
> >> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.
>
>
> >

> > � who does he think he's fooling?

>
>
>
> Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
> Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
> under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

� apples and oranges.

>
> Hateful bigots like Rich Measures will grasp at any flimsy straws and
> even resort to lying to justify their hateful denial of complete equal
> rights to fellow human beings they consider to be less worthy.
>
>
>
>
> >> Even though this has repeatedly been pointed out to him, he persists to
> >> use 'word definition' as a cover for hid hateful homophobic bigotry.
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
> >>>> less deserving of complete equal rights.
> >>>>

> >>> � false.

> >>>
> >>
> >> Now Mr Measures denies the reality that people in the past who
> >> considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be less deserving of
> >> complete equal rights were bigots just like he is.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
> >>>> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
> >>>> your likely latent homosexuality.

> >>> � Zzzzzz

> >>>
> >>
> >> When he gets exposed this is the kind of reaction one can expect from a
> >> hateful bigot like Rich Measures who would deny gays equal rights, equal
> >> protection and equal treatment [including the status of marriage] under
> >> the law.
> >>
> >> Mr Measures runs from the scientific reality that hateful homophobic
> >> bigots like him are most likely latent homosexuals themselves.
> >

--
R.L. Measures. 805-386-3734, www.somis.org

John Manning

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 6:04:56 PM1/5/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <YvOdnZcPq-TbG97W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <S6udnXH4Trzdlt_W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>> In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPW...@giganews.com>, John
> Manning
>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPW...@giganews.com>, John
>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HW...@giganews.com>, John
>>>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <y5ednYblpP9r0KbW...@giganews.com>, John
>>>>>>> Manning
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Ford wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final
> Nail in
>>>>>>>>>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save Abstinence-Only Sex
>>>>>>>>> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to

> meet a boy
>>>>>>>>>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the closeted
>>>>>>> gays in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

>>> I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
>>>>> guys turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
>>>>> be who
>>>>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
>>>>> now is
>>>>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry
> against gays
>>>>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

>>> woman -
>>>>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic
> bigotry is
>>>>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
>>> you'll have
>>>>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ _____

>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
>>>>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human
> rights
>>>>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
>>>>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

>>>>>>> ï¿½ I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

>>> words.
>>>>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
>>>>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

>>>>> ï¿½ heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

>>>> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
>>>> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
>>>> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.
>>

>>> ï¿½ who does he think he's fooling?

>>
>>
>> Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
>> Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
>> under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and segregation.
>

> ï¿½ apples and oranges.

Hateful bigots like Rich Measures would like readers to ignore the fact
that the US Supreme Court clearly has the authority to change
'definitions' of established terms to conform to the application of
equal rights and equal protection and treatment under the law - no
matter how long ANY named 'definitions' have been in place.

Mr Measures, the hateful anti-gay bigot is so consumed by his homophobic
hatred that would have readers believe that the US Supreme Court can't
rule in favor of complete equal rights for gays including the same
complete equal legal marriage status rights that heteros have.

>> Hateful bigots like Rich Measures will grasp at any flimsy straws and
>> even resort to lying to justify their hateful denial of complete equal
>> rights to fellow human beings they consider to be less worthy.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Even though this has repeatedly been pointed out to him, he persists to
>>>> use 'word definition' as a cover for hid hateful homophobic bigotry.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Bigots like you also considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be
>>>>>> less deserving of complete equal rights.
>>>>>>

>>>>> ï¿½ false.

>>>>>
>>>> Now Mr Measures denies the reality that people in the past who
>>>> considered women and blacks 'by definition' to be less deserving of
>>>> complete equal rights were bigots just like he is.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Your lame excuse has repeatedly been shown to be bogus. It's nothing
>>>>>> more than a transparent cover for your glaring homophobic bigotry and
>>>>>> your likely latent homosexuality.

>>>>> ï¿½ Zzzzzz

Don Martin

unread,

Jan 5, 2010, 7:47:44 PM1/5/10

to

Precisely. Genetically, this makes it a good deal for the guys. With two or
more around to keep the scarce woman happy, any pregnancy she has perpetuates
their family's genes. Males in monogamous societies do not enjoy that degree of
certainty.

-

aa #2278 Never mind "proof." Where is your evidence?
Fidei defensor (Hon. Antipodean)
The Squeeky Wheel: http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 6, 2010, 8:29:31 AM1/6/10

to

In article <hLWdnbLjysQCWN7W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> >>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final
> > Nail in
> >>>>>>>>>>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save
Abstinence-Only Sex
> >>>>>>>>> Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to

> > meet a boy
> >>>>>>>>>>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the
closeted
> >>>>>>> gays in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

> >>> I have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
> >>>>> guys turn
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> later
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
> >>>>> be who
> >>>>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>>>>>>>>>> � hardly.

> >>>>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
> >>>>> now is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry
> > against gays
> >>>>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>>>>>>>>>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

> >>> woman -
> >>>>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic
> > bigotry is
> >>>>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
> >>> you'll have
> >>>>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

> >>>>>>>>> � _____

> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
> >>>>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human
> > rights
> >>>>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> >>>>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

> >>>>>>> � I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

> >>> words.
> >>>>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
> >>>>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

> >>>>> � heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

> >>>> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
> >>>> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
> >>>> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.
> >>

> >>> � who does he think he's fooling?

> >>
> >>
> >> Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
> >> Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
> >> under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and segregation.
> >

> > � apples and oranges.

>
>
>
> Hateful bigots like Rich Measures would like readers to ignore the fact
> that the US Supreme Court clearly has the authority to change
> 'definitions' of established terms to conform to the application of
> equal rights and equal protection and treatment under the law - no
> matter how long ANY named 'definitions' have been in place.

� If the U.S. Supreme Court decides a case where they deem it
Constitutional that a man in Oxnard, California be allowed to legally
"marry" his female German shepherd, I will not recognize the union as a
"marriage". My guess is that if a clone of Prop 8 gets on the CA ballot
again, the result will be a replay.

>
> Mr Measures, the hateful anti-gay bigot

� SOS

>is so consumed by his homophobic
> hatred that would have readers believe that the US Supreme Court can't
> rule in favor of complete equal rights for gays including the same
> complete equal legal marriage status rights that heteros have.
>

� IOW, John M. is miffed that neither he nor anyone else in American can
forcibly change the definition of an English word.
>
>
cheers John M.

John Manning

unread,

Jan 6, 2010, 9:31:37 AM1/6/10

to

ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
> In article <hLWdnbLjysQCWN7W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>

>> ï¿½R.L.Measures wrote:
>>> In article <YvOdnZcPq-TbG97W...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>>> <jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
>>>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final
>>> Nail in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Coffin
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save
> Abstinence-Only Sex
>>>>>>>>>>> Education
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to

>>> meet a boy
>>>>>>>>>>>>> who needs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ her?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the
> closeted
>>>>>>>>> gays in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ quite

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

>>>>> I have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
>>>>>>> guys turn
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and can openly
>>>>>>> be who
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ hardly.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot perhaps
>>>>>>> now is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry
>>> against gays
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

>>>>> woman -
>>>>>>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic
>>> bigotry is
>>>>>>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
>>>>> you'll have
>>>>>>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ _____

>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful anti-gay
>>>>>>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human
>>> rights
>>>>>>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
>>>>>>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

>>>>> words.
>>>>>>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
>>>>>>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

>>>>>>> ï¿½ heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

>>>>>> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
>>>>>> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such words as
>>>>>> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

>>>>> ï¿½ who does he think he's fooling?

>>>>
>>>> Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
>>>> Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
>>>> under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

>>> ï¿½ apples and oranges.

>>
>>
>> Hateful bigots like Rich Measures would like readers to ignore the fact
>> that the US Supreme Court clearly has the authority to change
>> 'definitions' of established terms to conform to the application of
>> equal rights and equal protection and treatment under the law - no
>> matter how long ANY named 'definitions' have been in place.
>

> ï¿½ If the U.S. Supreme Court decides a case where they deem it

> Constitutional that a man in Oxnard, California be allowed to legally
> "marry" his female German shepherd, I will not recognize the union as a
> "marriage". My guess is that if a clone of Prop 8 gets on the CA ballot
> again, the result will be a replay.

Mr Measures the hateful homophobic bigot trots out the homophobic
bigot's old canard about gay marriage rights leading to marriage to
animals. The laws in question refer ONLY to laws that apply to human beings.

>> Mr Measures, the hateful anti-gay bigot
>

> ï¿½ SOS
>

Rich Measures has made it abundantly clear that he's a classic
homophobic bigot. As such - as he very well knows - according to
scientific research, hateful homophobic bigots like him are more than
likely latent homosexuals themselves.

>> is so consumed by his homophobic
>> hatred that would have readers believe that the US Supreme Court can't
>> rule in favor of complete equal rights for gays including the same
>> complete equal legal marriage status rights that heteros have.
>>
>

> ï¿½ IOW, John M. is miffed that neither he nor anyone else in American can

> forcibly change the definition of an English word.
>>

Rich Measures now resorts to delusional thinking to avoid the
application of complete equal rights to his fellow human beings.

Rich Measures is so arrogant and so consumed by his hatred of gays and
his insecurity and fear of being exposed as a latent homosexual that he
harbors the delusion that the US Supreme Court doesn't have the legal
authority under the U.S. Constitution to apply equal justice, equal
rights and equal protection and treatment under the law [including
completely equal marriage status] to EVERY human being regardless of
race, ethnicity, religion, belief or sexual orientation.

> cheers John M.
>

�R.L.Measures

unread,

Jan 6, 2010, 1:18:53 PM1/6/10

to

In article <YeednVZtX4lRA9nW...@giganews.com>, John Manning
<jrob...@terra.com.br> wrote:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> �R.L.Measures proudly displayed his idiocy by writing:

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 26, 12:14=A0pm, John Manning
> >>>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Abstinence-Only Sex Education Statistics =96 Final
> >>> Nail in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> the Coffin
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prayer is the only thing that can save
> > Abstinence-Only Sex
> >>>>>>>>>>> Education
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � What does one do with a 17-yr old who prays to

> >>> meet a boy
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> who needs
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> help getting into a Trojan Extra-Magnum condom?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Send her to me.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � her?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Well, certainly not him. Him you can send to all the
> > closeted
> >>>>>>>>> gays in
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.atheism, and man, there are more than few...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm sure that Mr Measures is well aware of that.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � quite

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Have you considered coming out of the closet, Rich?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> � Sure, I've met some pretty damned cute altar-boys John, but

> >>>>> I have
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> never dated one.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Seriously, back on track, my guess is that a lot of non-hetero
> >>>>>>> guys turn
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to atheism because they are miffed that both
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Christianity as well as Judaism condem homosexuality.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> later
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does this mean you've come out of the closet, Rich and
can openly
> >>>>>>> be who
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are as a gay man?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> � hardly.

> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If so, as a previously closeted homosexual anti-gay bigot
perhaps
> >>>>>>> now is
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the time to apologize for your previous hateful bigotry
> >>> against gays
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> having complete equal status in marriage, eh?

> >>>>>>>>>>>>> � for 700-yrs, marriage has ment a legal union between and one

> >>>>> woman -
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> except in Utah of course.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> According to published scientific research, your homophobic
> >>> bigotry is
> >>>>>>>>>>>> likely due to you being a latent homosexual. Perhaps one day
> >>>>> you'll have
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the courage to admit who you are.

> >>>>>>>>>>> � _____

> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> This is the kind of response one can expect from a hateful
anti-gay
> >>>>>>>>>> bigot who would deny his fellow human beings complete equal human
> >>> rights
> >>>>>>>>>> and complete equal treatment under the law because he thinks he's
> >>>>>>>>>> somehow superior to gays.

> >>>>>>>>> � I support equal rights but not the right to change definitions of

> >>>>> words.
> >>>>>>>> That's because to you, a hateful homophobic bigot, an entrenched
> >>>>>>>> injustice is more important than equal human rights.

> >>>>>>> � heteros do not have the right to change word definitions,

> >>>>>> Mr Measure has already been informed that the US Supreme Court indeed
> >>>>>> HAS changed the definitions and application of the law to such
words as
> >>>>>> miscegenation, slavery and segregation.

> >>>>> � who does he think he's fooling?

> >>>>
> >>>> Here Mr Measures the hateful anti-gay bigot, denies that the US Supreme
> >>>> Court changed the application of laws denying equal rights to blacks
> >>>> under established 'definitions' of miscegenation, slavery and
segregation.

> >>> � apples and oranges.

> >>
> >>
> >> Hateful bigots like Rich Measures would like readers to ignore the fact
> >> that the US Supreme Court clearly has the authority to change
> >> 'definitions' of established terms to conform to the application of
> >> equal rights and equal protection and treatment under the law - no
> >> matter how long ANY named 'definitions' have been in place.
> >

> > � If the U.S. Supreme Court decides a case where they deem it

> > Constitutional that a man in Oxnard, California be allowed to legally
> > "marry" his female German shepherd, I will not recognize the union as a
> > "marriage". My guess is that if a clone of Prop 8 gets on the CA ballot
> > again, the result will be a replay.
>
>
>
> Mr Measures the hateful homophobic bigot trots out the homophobic
> bigot's old canard about gay marriage rights leading to marriage to
> animals. The laws in question refer ONLY to laws that apply to human beings.
>
>
>
> >> Mr Measures, the hateful anti-gay bigot
> >

> > � SOS

> >
>
>
> Rich Measures has made it abundantly clear that he's a classic
> homophobic bigot. As such - as he very well knows - according to
> scientific research, hateful homophobic bigots like him are more than
> likely latent homosexuals themselves.
>
>
>
> >> is so consumed by his homophobic
> >> hatred that would have readers believe that the US Supreme Court can't
> >> rule in favor of complete equal rights for gays including the same
> >> complete equal legal marriage status rights that heteros have.
> >>
> >

> > � IOW, John M. is miffed that neither he nor anyone else in American can

> > forcibly change the definition of an English word.
> >>
>
>
> Rich Measures now resorts to delusional thinking to avoid the
> application of complete equal rights to his fellow human beings.
>
> Rich Measures is so arrogant and so consumed by his hatred of gays and
> his insecurity and fear of being exposed as a latent homosexual that he
> harbors the delusion that the US Supreme Court doesn't have the legal
> authority under the U.S. Constitution to apply equal justice, equal
> rights and equal protection and treatment under the law [including
> completely equal marriage status] to EVERY human being regardless of
> race, ethnicity, religion, belief or sexual orientation.
>

� alas

sully

unread,

Jan 6, 2010, 1:29:56 PM1/6/10

to

On Jan 6, 5:29 am, r...@somis.org (•R.L.Measures) wrote:
> In article <hLWdnbLjysQCWN7WnZ2dnUVZ_sGdn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
>
>
>
> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
> > •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > > In article <YvOdnZcPq-TbG97WnZ2dnUVZ_oqdn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > > <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>> In article <S6udnXH4Trzdlt_WnZ2dnUVZ_hadn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > >>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>> In article <C4udnfNpbMSQ9aLWnZ2dnUVZ_vSdn...@giganews.com>, John Manning
> > >>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>>>> In article <wrCdnfGioLo-qKLWnZ2dnUVZ_tudn...@giganews.com>, John
> Manning
> > >>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>> In article <jJCdnetDducFDaPWnZ2dnUVZ_u2dn...@giganews.com>, John
> > > Manning
> > >>>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:

>
> > >>>>>>>>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>> In article <qLudncv1SI31lKPWnZ2dnUVZ_qGdn...@giganews.com>, John
> > >>> Manning

> > >>>>>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:

>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <lNCdnYJKQs-IO6HWnZ2dnUVZ_ohi4...@giganews.com>, John
> > >>>>> Manning

> > >>>>>>>>>>>>> <jrobe...@terra.com.br> wrote:
>
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> •R.L.Measures wrote:
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In article
>

> <y5ednYblpP9r0KbWnZ2dnUVZ_rZi4...@giganews.com>, John
>
>
>
> > >>>>>>> Manning

Rich

Both Duwayne and I have shown you dictionary definitions of 'marriage'
that date back hundreds of years that do not excusively mean the
coupling of male and female in order to procreate children.

So this argument of yours is stubbornly specious and it is you who is
changing the definition of the word by attempting to limit and narrow
it's usage.

That being said, words should change and evolve as necessary to
accomodate our evolving understanding of reality. We do understand
reality more now than 100 years ago, so our vocabulary should reflect
current reality and not the previously limited world view.

The term "evolve" was not coined by Darwin, but certainly has a
different understanding and meaning to it now than in 1810.

Here's a question. Should a biologically androgenous person be able
to get married using your narrow definition of marriage? There are
many people out there with both female and male genitalia and physical
characteristics and can socially identify themselves as female, male,
or neither, and can be attracted to males, females, or both.

When you were an embryo, you started out as a female, then during the
process of growth, various activations and suppressions of certain
proteins by sections of your DNA turned your
clitoris into a penis and modified your vagina, and set up your
hormone system to suppress breast growth.

So the very definition of male/female is not as binary as you would
religiously adhere to, requiring at some point that even IF marriage
meant only and exactly what you think it does, it would have to be
adapted to cover the realities of gender and humanity.

I know some men who reject and deny the scientific understanding of
gender and sexuality. Generally they reject it because they are
bigotted and frightened little men...