14 billion.
> It needed
> this time for gravity to evolve conscious life(us,and seans)
Seans are fictional.
> universe can now see itself for it has eyes,and large brains. Thinking
> life needs to have great complexity.(we are star stuff) I am practically
> taking this thinking from the "anthropic principle". I am leaving out
> lots of good science to shorten my points. Reality is if the universe
> did not have the right stuff,we could not be here to see it. Life got
> the right environment to evolve(Earth). The oboe comes to mind when I
> think of fine tuned Call this post universe "fine tuned for conscious
> life." Bert
The universe isn't 'fine tuned' at all.
The universe is the way it is. Period.
--
"When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many
people suffer from a delusion, it is called Religion."
He's too old and cranky to ever change for the better.
~ BG
Ah, I often wonder what puddles think and dream about.
Please do not take offense, because like you, I too believe in the merits of
metaphor.
Here's an extension: Is it too big a mental leap for the puddle to figure
out where the drops go when a playful child comes along and goes SPLASH?
--
**** Darla
Be well and come... be welcome
You are the fifth star!
Darla A warm puddle like those we see at Yellow Stone have shown they
created early life.We need to look into "bucky balls" that have came
to Earth beyond our solar system. Not to hard to believe these bucky
balls were the space ships to seed life all over the universe.They
could have landed in those warm pools.Bucky balls are found all over
the Earth's surface.I think of bucky balls often go fiure Bert
Dan If nature does not use its balance of forces than most of my
universe theories could not be reality. Bert
Bert, cross posting to alt.atheism! Now that you have the ability to
cross post, you might want to be careful where you are cross posting
to.
Double-A
If the forces did not appear balanced, you would not be around to have a
theory.
That type of idea is well and good, Bert.
One always comes back to the question about where all that seedy life
originated.
Humans have a very hard time with this.
Life didn't originate anywhere.
It has always been, and it will probably always be.
When one can bring oneself to accept this, one sees with the clearness of a
sparkling Spring day that death is unnecessary.
Death has its uses, its plusses, its benefits.
Neither uses, plusses nor benefits make death necessary.
Keep those death-defying endorphins flowing!
Balanced force is necessary, from within quarks to that of elephants
or whales keeping time and occupying each of their fair share of
cosmic volume. However, sufficiently Eden like worlds have likely
existed for billions of years longer than ours, while some have more
recently come and gone before our time of cosmic awareness.
Under the most ideal conditions, how fast can raw happenstance
evolution move towards the levels of intelligent self-awareness?
~ BG
Under the most ideal conditions, and without random or directed
panspermia, how fast can raw happenstance evolution move towards
accomplishing the levels of intelligent self-awareness and pondering
off-world intelligence?
~ BG
I don�t know.
I don't know of any planet that has "the most ideal conditions".
Nor have we come across any planet that hadn't already been seeded.
Since the intelligent self-awareness needed to ponder off-world intelligence
is so rare, it probably takes a very long time to develop, on the order of
billions of years even in the best environments.
Remember, though, that it is "birth" that moves evolution along, not death.
This is an underlying reason why so many are opposed to the control of
births, but not so opposed to the control of deaths.
That's not exactly what I'd asked, none the less that's very
terrestrial of yourself, and most likely honest.
>
> Nor have we come across any planet that hadn't already been seeded.
> Since the intelligent self-awareness needed to ponder off-world intelligence
> is so rare, it probably takes a very long time to develop, on the order of
> billions of years even in the best environments.
I would tend to agree with that, as without natural or directed
panspermia perhaps billions of nearly ideal Eden like years would be
required. However, directed panspermia could easily cut that process
down by billions of years, as well as easily increasing the odds of
achieving a viable humanoid species of sufficient intelligent self-
awareness, by a good trillion to one.
In other words, why mess around and wait forever with random cosmic
happenstance?
>
> Remember, though, that it is "birth" that moves evolution along, not death.
> This is an underlying reason why so many are opposed to the control of
> births, but not so opposed to the control of deaths.
>
> --
> **** Darla
> Be well and come... be welcome
> You are the fifth star!
Microbes and the likes of diatoms birth and rebirth frequently, and
they often adapt to their given environment or situation at hand.
Even artificially created microbes are often quick to morph and learn
how to survive. The DNA/RNA of spores and even some complex
exoskeleton insects are somewhat rad-hard enough for exposed space
travels as is (imagine if they had an icy proto-moon or icy rogue
planet to ride on)
~ BG
>> Nor have we come across any planet that hadn't already been seeded.
>> Since the intelligent self-awareness needed to ponder off-world
>> intelligence
>> is so rare, it probably takes a very long time to develop, on the order
>> of
>> billions of years even in the best environments.
>
> I would tend to agree with that, as without natural or directed
> panspermia perhaps billions of nearly ideal Eden like years would be
> required. However, directed panspermia could easily cut that process
> down by billions of years, as well as easily increasing the odds of
> achieving a viable humanoid species of sufficient intelligent self-
> awareness, by a good trillion to one.
>
> In other words, why mess around and wait forever with random cosmic
> happenstance?
>
Why not?
What would be the benefit of circumventing natural pathways?
It is far more interesting to watch the universe change naturally in all its
infinite diversity.
One never knows what might next appear!
"Under the most ideal conditions, and without random or directed
panspermia, how fast can raw happenstance evolution move towards
accomplishing the levels of intelligent self-awareness and pondering
off-world intelligence?"
Rather limited evidence would suggest around 3.5 billion years.
"I would tend to agree with that, as without natural or directed
panspermia perhaps billions of nearly ideal Eden like years would be
required. However, directed panspermia could easily cut that process
down by billions of years, as well as easily increasing the odds of
achieving a viable humanoid species of sufficient intelligent self-
awareness, by a good trillion to one.
In other words, why mess around and wait forever with random cosmic
happenstance?"
Who would be "messing around?"
The only evidence we have at this time suggests about 3.5 billion years.
Why do you ask?
At least by way of directed panspermia you'd have a good trillion to
one better odds of establishing other off-world intelligent/self-aware
kinds of life.
>
> It is far more interesting to watch the universe change naturally in all its
> infinite diversity.
> One never knows what might next appear!
As long as you are immortal and thereby having unlimited time is
thereby meaningless for the purely natural process of evolution via
random happenstance, why sure thing, just sit yourself tight for a few
billions of years and possibly something good, bad or weird will
happen on one out of every billion viable planets within a given
galaxy.
btw; supposedly you have eyes as good or better than anything human,
and a perfectly deductive capable brain for processing large amounts
of visual data, and obviously having full internet access, so how
about your review of the planet Venus, and specifically the area of
Guth Venus.
This will really piss off our rabbi Saul Levy if you so much as bother
to take a serious look-see at whatever I've been offering for the past
decade. Apparently Jews and Zionist Nazis have something about the
planet Venus they simply don't want to share.
Start here:
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/imgcat/hires/mgn_c115s095_1.gif
~ BG
"At least by way of directed panspermia you'd have a good trillion to
one better odds of establishing other off-world intelligent/self-aware
kinds of life."
Who?
More of us if you'd like to screw up some other perfectly good planet
or moon, whereas at least technically it would be relatively simple to
direct our DNA plus a host of other complex biodiversity towards other
places that might accommodate such seeds of life.
Using a large ball of solid ice as the preferred method of transport
would be a good way for this directed panspermia to go.
~ BG
Actually, since you are entirely terrestrial, I shouldn't have
bothered.
We'd be a whole lot better off if having a red dwarf, and either a
smaller moon or none.
A world w/o 500 religions and a few of them satanic, would also be a
whole lot better off.
~ BG
"Space, the final frontier."
But he's right, and that's the whole human dilemma!
You can only be CERTAIN about your own planet, and it took about 3.5 billion
years for humans to evolve.
That's what all the actual evidence supports.
But you're not the kind of human that accepts evidence, are you.
You'd rather rely on rumor and propaganda.
And THOSE are what YOU call "evidence".
I'm surprised you have enough courage to wake up every day.
--
**** Lomie
That's all very Zionist terrestrial of yourself. Are 'seans' also
Republican?
Notice you never have anything derogatory to say that's otherwise bad
or even negative about certain dysfunctional Jews, like Ponzi Madoff,
Kissinger or even faith-based pretenders like GW Bush or Dick Cheney.
What gives?
~ BG
He needs the real courage to go asleep at night, knowing us spooks are
always prowling around!
Double-A
ZNRs like Lomriy are the only ones here having everything at risk.
Objectively, what exactly in hard numbers, in observationology or in
whatever substance of any tangible worth have any of these Rothschild
'seans' accomplished for you or anyone else?
~ BG
I haven't seen a post from any of them, yet, Mr. Guth.
My opinions would be about how they communicate in an international medium
like this.
Other than that, it's an obvious human dilemma that you need to work out on
your own.
You do know that "space" is a HUGE misnomer, don't you?
--
**** Lomie
That is so TWISTED, and so very like you, Mr. G.
You already know what we've done for Earth.
And you can't find any benefit for humans in that?
Darla says there's no such thing as a stupid question.
You seem to be working very, very hard to prove her wrong.
--
**** Lomie
No stupid questions, just stupid questioners!
Double-A
Humans must sleep.
Unlike us there are certain bits of psychobabble you have to work out in
your sleep or some very bad things happen to your mind.
Not all humans, just the planet-bound ones have this problem.
You sleep away 1/4 to 1/3 of your lives.
And because you HAVE to.
Then when you wake up, all them spooks come back to your mind if you have
any.
The more ghosts you have, the less-inclined are you to get out of bed.
One BOO ! and you are under your beds shivering like little kids fresh from
a nightmarish dream.
If you would only listen to us about fear and fearlessness.
Then you could truly raise your consciousness levels to who knows how high?
When you all of a sudden wake up and find you're old and gray, then what?
All you have any more are your mythical spooks, and you fight tooth and nail
to hold on to them.
Some of you are truly a sorry bunch of rapscallions.
(My trainer's always calling me a "rapscallion".
I don't really know what that means, but if my trainer calls me that, it
can't be too good. <t h> )
--
**** Lomie
Aye aye, mon capitan !
--
**** Lomie
How much are you guys gettting ?
The amount of my fee is classified.
Double-A
You mean those bogus/phony and otherwise mutually perpetrated wars, as
well as several thousand fold inflation that only benefits the rich
and powerful. Thanks a lot (are you trying to get us all killed
off?).
>
> Darla says there's no such thing as a stupid question.
> You seem to be working very, very hard to prove her wrong.
>
> --
> **** Lomie
> Be well and come... be welcome
> You are the fifth star!
Your perpetual obfuscation, lies and denials (same as those ZNRs and
Rothschilds approve of) are noted
~ BG
Your usual excuses are noted.
~ BG
I got a rock.
--
Dr. Charles Brown
It figures that I'm worth all the trouble and expense. No wonder
there are so many brown-nosed clowns assigned to my ass, because it's
an open bidding war for those of you trying to get onto my case.
Mainstream damage-control duty has never been so good.
~ BG
I could tell you, but then I'd have to bill you.
(porpoise "bill"? get it?) <hee>
Well, yeah, but that pretty much alludes to the human concept of space being
rather larger than a walk to the corner pharmacy.
To humans, when they think of "space", mostly they think of the "opposite of
something of substance", and the space "out there" is anything but.
What's the average cosmic density of dark matter? (one atom of H2 or
He/cm3?)
Perhaps as great as two or three H2 and one He per cm3?
A photon absorbing/blocking molecular cloud of diamagnetic H2 and He
is supposedly worth <1e15/m3 (<1e9/cm3) at its core, and there are
many such cold and dark clouds that are actually none too small of
volume none the less, though at an average volumetric density of
perhaps 1e12/m3 is still insufficient mass of their own in order to
form into even a gas planet or much less into a brown dwarf.
Apparently the extremely weak force of gravity needs a substantial
seed of mass before forming such dark molecular clouds into anything
more solid or liquid.
~ BG
What, may I ask, is the significance of all this in terms of the misnomer of
"space"?
--
Yubiwan
PS. Lomie wishes you all well and asked
me to say her goodbyes. She had to rush
back to her training site.
Life as we know it needs solids and liquids. Gravity alone is not
sufficient by itself for creating either of those molecular bonds.
Natural evolution from scratch and only from cosmic star stuff is at
best a 1e24:1 odds against such happening, not to mention requiring
billions of reasonably undisturbed years along with a great deal of
dumb beginners luck.
Of intelligent design and directed panspermia, or intentional
deployment seems bad enough, whereas out of a dozen tries might get
one planet or moon to take hold if most everything was right on the
money from day one.
Try to remember that some plants have far more complex DNA than us
humans, and they had to exist long before we ever came along.
~ BG
Cost is apparently of no object when it comes down to destroying and/
or blocking anything I have to say. Imagine what I'd have to say if
were properly intervened on some national/international media network.
~ BG
Hello, Brad!
You go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say.
Well, reinforcements arrived so we are taking a little break here in the
Cygnus arm.
It looks like you all have been having some fun with the others while I've
been gone.
Semmalon broke some of our silly little rules, so I've asked that he take a
respite from posting for awhile.
Unfortunately, the docs were unable to revive our fellow explorer.
So we're holding her body until we see if there are any others who have been
killed.
Then we will send them off to the Magellanic cloud.
You may remember that there is a race of humans there who have the power to
bring a body back to life, as they did with Pere.
We're still unsure what happened to the rest of the exploratory crew.
There are few clues and little to go on.
So we'll start back up in a few days after the crew has rested.
Have I wished you a Happy New Year, Brad?
Here's best wishes to you and to all!
--
**** Darla
Good luck with that off-world stuff, or whatever drug induced
dreaming.
Btw, here's one that should be no skin or scales off your sean
approved nose; I was wondering who has been taking away our Google
Groups/newsgroup topic gold stars?
I always give your topics and replies 5 gold stars, but someone has
been taking them away so that new-comers or the investigative news
media don't have a clue as to which topics are hot.
~ BG
I do hope Semmalon isn't in too much trouble because of Cactus Saul. If one
of the rules he ran afoul of was to not get the natives too excited, then I
don't think you need to worry - most of us here enjoy throwing rotten fruit
at the Saul - Monkey just so we can hear him scream, and I suspect, though
he'd never admit it, even Cactus enjoys a good pie in the face as well! Very
sorry to hear about the ill-fated exploration team and the dead explorer. I
hope you can find the cause of their misfortune and that there isn't any
potential trouble brewing so close to home. I'd hate for FOC to be rushed
because we have an hostile force (anything bad and strong enough to take out
a Sean has got to be a whole bunch of bad...) to deal with...
Greysky
> Btw, here's one that should be no skin or scales off your sean
> approved nose; I was wondering who has been taking away our Google
> Groups/newsgroup topic gold stars?
>
> I always give your topics and replies 5 gold stars, but someone has
> been taking them away so that new-comers or the investigative news
> media don't have a clue as to which topics are hot.
Exactly the reason why Google Groups is for losers.
Sounds like another Google glitch to me, Brad.
Are they working on their software again?
We're mainly concerned because we can't locate the exploration team.
None of the safeguards are working.
And there are a lot of safeguards.
Up until now, we had thought this type of situation to be impossible.
There isn't always a proper accounting of the hazards to exploration near
the outer rim of the galaxy.
Semmalon knew better than to be so provocative.
I read some of Saul's responses, and it was obvious that Semma was working
him up into a true tizzy.
We want to study humans, not make them have brain strokes.
Are you back so soon, or is this an FTL subspace communication?
> Semmalon broke some of our silly little rules, so I've asked that he take a
> respite from posting for awhile.
Grounded? Confined to quarters? Bread and water?
> Unfortunately, the docs were unable to revive our fellow explorer.
> So we're holding her body until we see if there are any others who have been
> killed.
> Then we will send them off to the Magellanic cloud.
> You may remember that there is a race of humans there who have the power to
> bring a body back to life, as they did with Pere.
Well, isn't that convenient!
> We're still unsure what happened to the rest of the exploratory crew.
> There are few clues and little to go on.
Trouble in little Cygnus!
> So we'll start back up in a few days after the crew has rested.
>
> Have I wished you a Happy New Year, Brad?
> Here's best wishes to you and to all!
>
> --
> **** Darla
> Be well and come... be welcome
> You are the fifth star!
And a Happy New Year to to you, Darla!
Double-A
I think those pesky ZNRs (friends of yours) are stealing my gold
stars. Tell then to knock it off (or else).
~ BG
They obviously use FTL transponders, similar to those slow ones of
only 'c' velocity that our NASA/Apollo folks used to fool us.
~ BG
Intervened is the perfect word for what needs to be done with you, a
long time ago.
--
BDK..
Leader of the nonexistent paid shills.
Non Jew Jew Club founding member.
Former number one Kook Magnet, title passed to Iarnrod.
I have no friends called "zinners", although I have many called "sinners"!
<G>
>> Hello, Brad!
>> You go ahead and say whatever it is you have to say.
>>
>> Well, reinforcements arrived so we are taking a little break here in the
>> Cygnus arm.
>> It looks like you all have been having some fun with the others while
>> I've
>> been gone.
>
>
>
> Are you back so soon, or is this an FTL subspace communication?
>
We're not back yet, no, I'm posting from the Cygnus arm.
It's not any kind of big deal, though, because this is Just the arm on the
OTHER SIDE of the Perseus arm from you. <G>
>> Semmalon broke some of our silly little rules, so I've asked that he take
>> a
>> respite from posting for awhile.
>
>
> Grounded? Confined to quarters? Bread and water?
>
There is no punishment, of course, as it was obvious that he was only trying
to help.
Negativity begets more of the same, so we generally like to remain as
inobvious and inostentatious as we can.
>> Unfortunately, the docs were unable to revive our fellow explorer.
>> So we're holding her body until we see if there are any others who have
>> been
>> killed.
>> Then we will send them off to the Magellanic cloud.
>> You may remember that there is a race of humans there who have the power
>> to
>> bring a body back to life, as they did with Pere.
>
>
> Well, isn't that convenient!
>
Well, convenient would be if they possessed travel capability and would come
here to the Cygnus arm.
They never leave their planet.
>> We're still unsure what happened to the rest of the exploratory crew.
>> There are few clues and little to go on.
>
>
> Trouble in little Cygnus!
>
>
>> So we'll start back up in a few days after the crew has rested.
>>
>> Have I wished you a Happy New Year, Brad?
>> Here's best wishes to you and to all!
>>
>> --
>> **** Darla
>> Be well and come... be welcome
>> You are the fifth star!
>
>
> And a Happy New Year to to you, Darla!
>
> Double-A
>
Thank you, Double-A! and doubly back to you!
Good one. (Earth has no shortage of those)
~ BG
No brain in rabbi Saul = no chance of any "brain stroke".
~ BG