Karma
Edmond Wollmann
exploration of "ALL-That-Is (the mind of God). It is the natural flow of
e-motion (energy motion) generated by BELIEF that every intention possesses as
it is released through the creative extension (5th house-Leo) and expression of
the self.
There is not any punishment involved or universal judgment. Karma is simply the
effect of believing certain ways.
The horoscope has 4 cardinal points that have 3 segments each (Elements and
Modes--the pyramidal structure and the structure of DNA nucleotide bases).
These 3 segments make up the 3 grand crosses of Cardinal (belief), Fixed
(emotion), and Mutable (thought) (Bashar). The persona or personality is
basically an artificial construct based upon these bases of belief/emotion and
thought (because ego is the effect of the focused illusion of time and space).
All of experiential reality is created from this base(the number 4 and the
square represent physicalization in the material world), hence the horoscopic
patterns reflect the archetypal construction that the entire identity (physical
and non-physical) creates as an effect of the definitions it holds--or the
configuration of archetypal reference that it has chosen to experience; its
vibrational frequency.
Karma then, is the trajectory that a definition creates, and the probable
effects of that choice. "Good and Bad" are value judgments, and do not tell us
the positive or negative status of a belief or event. Karma is simply the
accumulated momentum of definition choices.
The fixed signs and/or the 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 11th houses reflect this
accumulation of belief momentum, which is then disseminated into the mutable or
cadent houses as experiential reality. Your karma or reincarnational momentum
is your chart.
Everything we have and are is the result of effort. Karma reflects the
intentional definitions held, and their compositional effect.
If you wish to change momentums you must change definitions. This is simple
mechanics. To change definitions you must first be able to imagine (image-in,
this is reflected in your moon sign) a new definition--trust it, and if you
trust it, you will act like it.
Therefore, imagination is the initiator of real-ization. The Actions which
follow are the effects of the conviction of belief. (Please refer to
self-empowering astrology post).
Retrograde planets reflect the energy connected to the planet and
sign in a pendulum swing in extreme (momentum-ly speaking), the planet is in a
state of repression and reassessment. It is reflective OF judging or placing
values on "things and beliefs" that creates karma and this Rx condition.
When the analytically correct application of the planet (non-judgmental
perception) is absorbed and adopted (please refer to projection post), it turns
forward and becomes a non-issue and the pendulum swing stops. This is called
Samsara. The release of the whole concept of Karma and guilt momentums.
The goal of understanding one's "karma" is to get off the wheel of karma and
make free will decisions based on natural aggression, following your bliss and
excitement (Uranus) not guilt and fear (Saturn=to saturate with material
consciousness).
Factions that use karma as an argument of one or anothers validity, are
themselves creating negative Karma.
Releasing judgments=Releasing Karma.
Thank you once again for allowing me to share my insights and be of service in
this way.
"Hillmen come down from the lava.
Forging across the mighty river flow, oh oh.
Always, forever, only so you
Don't worry your pretty little head!
Ursa Major, Ursa Minor"
Paul McCartney "Pretty Little Head"
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
(C) 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Articles http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/info.htm
Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com/TOC.htm
wollma...@spam.free
http://www.nocem.org/
http://www.rahul.net/falk/quickrefs.html#W
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alt.astrology.metapsych alt.jyotish alt.paranormal alt.tarot
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el...@no.spam
Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>The horoscope has 4 cardinal points that have 3 segments each
>(Elements and Modes--the pyramidal structure and the structure
>of DNA nucleotide bases).
ROFLMAO!!!! Both a pyramid and DNA! How's that for meaningless
buzz words.
Dan Baldwin
>
> Everything we have and are is the result of effort.
Wollmann's train wreck of a life, for instance, is the result of decades
spent plagiarizing, lying, scamming, breaking the law, failing to
achieve the academic recognition he pretends to have, and studiously
avoiding showing any remorse for the supposed friend of his who got
killed because of Wollmann's own antics.
Aint karma grand?
--
Dan Baldwin, unethical *by design*
I am a minion of Satan, but my powers are mainly administrative.
Hail the un-alive
Spåmster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> For those so interested
Nobody is interested in your incoherent screed, loser.
Jim Phillips
All he needed was "paradigm" for a hat trick.
--
Jim Phillips, jphillip at bcpl dot net
"By far the vast majority of my tax cuts go to those at the bottom." G.W.
Bush during a primary debate (the bottom 60% got 14.7% of his tax cuts).
Cujo DeSockpuppet
news:35325a08.04091...@posting.google.com:
> For those so interested, karma is
what happens to kooks who don't respect the rights of non-combatants.
(See ABBONDANZA for more info)
wollma...@spam.free
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Neptune
If Karma is just believing why then people received the pains and
sufferings?
To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to happen, for
example the 9/11 victims. No body planned to get killed, but if you
looked at their charts, you will see a significant sign of trouble on that
day.
"Edmond Wollmann" <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:35325a08.04091...@posting.google.com...
Larry Huntley
"Is this thing on?" and, in alt.astrology, message
news:1Wx1d.190939$mD.33993@attbi_s02, prounounced:
> Edmond,
>
[...]
> To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to happen, for
> example the 9/11 victims. No body planned to get killed, but if you
> looked at their charts, you will see a significant sign of trouble on
> that day.
You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
these results published?
- L
--
Larry Huntley Beaverton, Oregon
Skep-Ti-Cult® Member #130-978649-969 http://www.skepticult.org/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
On May 14, 2004, alcha...@yahoo.com (Edmond Wollmann) wrote in
alt.astrology, message
news:35325a08.04051...@posting.google.com:
> Would you like me to yank your internet account now or later?
Neptune
> You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
> these results published?
One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
algorithm. There are over 100,000+ dead people's record that I picked
them randomly to analyze. I do not care if you don't believe me, if your
choice.
"Larry Huntley" <ljhun...@SPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:Xns95644FDBD38...@204.127.199.17...
John Ingram
> Edmond,
> If Karma is just believing why then people received the pains and
> sufferings?
> To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to happen, for
> example the 9/11 victims. No body planned to get killed, but if you
If you truly believe that on all levels, then that is, of course REAL
for you. WHO "made" it the "bad" thing that was "supposed" to happen??
Where is this entity who "made" it happen? The terrorists made it
happen, what drove them to "make" it happen?
> looked at their charts, you will see a significant sign of trouble on that
> day.
CHARTS do not "make" one's reality happen anymore than a mirror
"makes" one look the way one does.
I understand charts, but WHY did they all choose to be there that day?
WHY would it be showing in their charts? So they were just born on a
bad day to get the chart they had, and HAD to die there that day
because of their day and time of birth?
Why would you choose to believe in such powerlessness and "fate"?
Fate is unreocnized choice:
http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/satoppsat.htm
EHWollmann
news...@supernews.net
>Message-id: <f67ek0dg25vi8gvae...@4ax.com>
>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:16 GMT, in alt.astrology, "Neptune"
><Nep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>L,
>>> You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
>>> these results published?
>>One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
>>chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
>Patterns?
>>3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
>because it just takes one non-fitting pattern to break your claim... and
Nope, this is simply called an anomaly, which in science is typically just
thrown out.
"The decision to employ a particular piece of apparatus and to use it in a
particular way carries with it an assumption that only certain sorts of
circumstances will arise.
Normal science research is a strenuous and devoted attempt to force nature into
the conceptual boxes supplied by the professional education. Anamolys are
disregarded because they do not articulate the paradigm." Thomas Kuhn-Author of
the widely acclaimed "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions".
When are you going to actually do some reading and study Bobby Policeman?
You spend far too much time being Mr. Policeman and too little getting your
facts straight, this is a sure sign of ego-mania.
>what exactly is the pattern? It is a true pattern or a 'Type 1 Statistical
>Error'?
>>algorithm. There are over 100,000+ dead people's record that I picked
>>them randomly to analyze. I do not care if you don't believe me, if your
>>choice.
>Do you know what the word Apophenia means?
>Just so you understand, the human mind sees things and functions by making
>a set of established patterns. It often will create patterns where no
>pattern really exists. Astrology has been
Yes, exactly like your belief that astrology is dangerous. Exactly like the way
you spinics stalk me for 8 years calling me names BELIEVING that this will have
some effect even though all evidence indicates that none has occurred. This is
a sure sign of insanity.
>shown time and time again to be
Incorrect Booby. Astronomers primarily have TRIED to show astrology is
defective, but then they usually have no clue about it which makes their
attempts defective and fallacious--not unlike your feeble attempts over the
years to paranoically control these groups with your fear based diatribe.
>such a pattern created where there is no real pattern. What makes it harder
Yes, psychologically, this goes hand in hand with the concepts of
reinforcement--like the slot machine, which reinforces you (or other idiots
like you) to believe that their is some payoff if you just keep trying. Sort of
like your presence here for 8 years with your fanatasy that your presence will
make any sort of difference in an intelligent persons ability to see through
your crap.
>is the human belief system which demands all events must fit into a
>preconceived set of perceived patterns.
No bobby, this is not what professionals like me do. Please get help with your
delusions.
>This unconscious bias colors
>everything into blind beliefs.
Yes, when will you ever get it.
"The theoretical idea (atomism in this case) does not arise apart from and
independent of experience; nor can it be derived from experience by a purely
logical procedure. It is produced by a creative act." Albert Einstein
"I believe every true theorist is a kind of tamed metaphysicist, no matter how
pure a "positivist" he may fancy himself." Albert Einstein
Dan Baldwin
>
> When are you going to actually do some reading and stu<SLAP>
When are you going to revise and correct the countless grammatical,
spelling, and factual errors your POS "book" is riddled with, you sub
literate fucktard?
Dan Baldwin
>
> If you truly believe that on all levels, then that is, of course REAL
> for you.
I believe on all levels that "John Ingram" is just another threadbare
sockpuppet for the notorious plagiarist and con man Ed "out of
integrity" Wollmann. I also believe on all levels that Edmo is a liar,
spammer, misogynist, convicted criminal, self-confessed remorseless
killer, molester of wild life, and self petard hoister extraordinaire
who will *never* follow through on any of the legal threats he's been
crowing about for years now.
Fortunately for me, objective reality appears to agree with me.
Spåmster
John Ingram wrote:
>
> If you truly believe that on all levels, then that is, of course REAL
> for you.
What's real is that you don't have the balls to sue anyone.
Spåmster
EHWollmann wrote:
>
> Nope, this is simply called an anomaly, which in science is typically just
> thrown out.
>
Thrown out as in your lawsuits?
Esa
> To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to happen, for
Quote from Tibetan Book Of Life And Death by Sogyal Rinpoche
(actually my translation from the Finnish edition):
"Karma has, in the west, often been misunderstood completely wrong as
predestined destiny; at best it has been thought being a all-controlling,
unmistaken law of cause and effect. Literally karma is 'action' or
'doing', so karma means both the latent force of actions and the
consequences which are caused by the action."
"So what karma simply means? It means that all that we do by the means of
body, speech and mind has a consequence matching the action."
Elsewhere the author points out that the consequence doesn't necessarily
occur during the same lifetime as the action, but it can affect the
rebirth. The karma ripens when the circumstances are right.
Sometimes it would seem to be nice if the effects would come faster, though...
> "Edmond Wollmann" <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:35325a08.04091...@posting.google.com...
>> For those so interested, karma is the momentum of an idea within the
> idea
>> exploration of "ALL-That-Is (the mind of God). It is the natural flow of
>> e-motion (energy motion) generated by BELIEF that every intention
> possesses as
As it has been pointed out, it does not need to be believed. If it would,
there wouldn't be any point for anybody to believe in it.
Happy to correct ;)
Esa
--
Esa
Non-spammers may reply to etikka at lut dot fi
Vote against spam in EU @ http://www.politik-digital.de/spam
Pantyhead DeScumbag
news:20040914125736...@mb-m11.aol.com:
>>From: Bob Officer bobof...@supernews.com complaints can be sent to
> news...@supernews.net
>>Message-id: <f67ek0dg25vi8gvae...@4ax.com>
>
>>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:16 GMT, in alt.astrology, "Neptune"
>><Nep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>>L,
>>>> You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
>>>> these results published?
>
>>>One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
>>>chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look
>>>at
>
>>Patterns?
>
>>>3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
>
>>because it just takes one non-fitting pattern to break your claim...
>>and
>
> Nope, this is simply called an anomaly, which in science is typically
> just thrown out.
Not before it is explained and represented. Otherwise it's callede cherry
picking which is as dishonest a practice as some lying freak calling
himself a "psychological counselor" without any accredation, license or
qualifications.
> "The decision to employ a particular piece of apparatus and to use it
> in a particular way carries with it an assumption that only certain
> sorts of circumstances will arise.
> Normal science research is a strenuous and devoted attempt to force
> nature into the conceptual boxes supplied by the professional
> education. Anamolys are disregarded because they do not articulate the
> paradigm." Thomas Kuhn-Author of the widely acclaimed "The Structure
> of Scientific Revolutions".
Acclaimed by whom? You? You can't even keep from getting tossed out of a
strip mall "college", pretender.
> When are you going to actually do some reading and study Bobby
> Policeman? You spend far too much time being Mr. Policeman and too
> little getting your facts straight, this is a sure sign of ego-mania.
This from a kook that thinks whining to NANAU is going to get results
after 8 years of whining is either ignored, laughed at or mocked.
>>what exactly is the pattern? It is a true pattern or a 'Type 1
>>Statistical Error'?
>
>>>algorithm. There are over 100,000+ dead people's record that I
>>>picked them randomly to analyze. I do not care if you don't believe
>>>me, if your choice.
>
>>Do you know what the word Apophenia means?
>
>>Just so you understand, the human mind sees things and functions by
>>making a set of established patterns. It often will create patterns
>>where no pattern really exists. Astrology has been
> Yes, exactly like your belief that astrology is dangerous.
A water pistol is dangerous too. Your point? Better yet, cite the quote
that backs up your claim.
> Exactly
> like the way you spinics stalk me for 8 years calling me names
> BELIEVING that this will have some effect even though all evidence
> indicates that none has occurred. This is a sure sign of insanity.
How many thousands of your whines would you like as evidence, Pantyhead?
>>shown time and time again to be
>
> Incorrect Booby. Astronomers primarily have TRIED to show astrology is
> defective, but then they usually have no clue about it which makes
> their attempts defective and fallacious--not unlike your feeble
> attempts over the years to paranoically control these groups with your
> fear based diatribe.
Like your predictions of earthquakes, tidal waves and destructurizations,
not to mention the "paradigm shift of 2012"?
>>such a pattern created where there is no real pattern. What makes it
>>harder
>
> Yes, psychologically, this goes hand in hand with the concepts of
> reinforcement--like the slot machine, which reinforces you (or other
> idiots like you) to believe that their is some payoff if you just keep
> trying. Sort of like your presence here for 8 years with your fanatasy
> that your presence will make any sort of difference in an intelligent
> persons ability to see through your crap.
Nice rant, kook. Do I have to fetch Kali over to spank your ass again
about psychology?
>>is the human belief system which demands all events must fit into a
>>preconceived set of perceived patterns.
> No bobby, this is not what professionals like me do. Please get help
> with your delusions.
>
>>This unconscious bias colors
>>everything into blind beliefs.
>
> Yes, when will you ever get it.
His lawsuit? I'd like to know if you'll sue me first but I'm still
waiting. Send it to my San Diego address like your buddy PEAT did.
Axreedfest flushed, Edmo. Wollkook's Law cited. You lose again.
Seth Bullock
> L,
>
>>You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
>>these results published?
>
>
>
> One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
> chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
> 3000 charts of these victims??
So you can confirm whther you're accurate or a fucking moron. So far,
the evidence has weighed in heavily for the latter.
Seth Bullock
> "Neptune" <Nep...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<1Wx1d.190939$mD.33993@attbi_s02>...
>
>>Edmond,
>
>
>
>>If Karma is just believing why then people received the pains and
>>sufferings?
>
>
>
>>To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to happen, for
>>example the 9/11 victims. No body planned to get killed, but if you
>
>
> If you truly believe that on all levels, then that is, of course REAL
> for you. WHO "made" it the "bad" thing that was "supposed" to happen??
> Where is this entity who "made" it happen?
Are you talking about 9/11, or the loss of over 25 of your Internet and
email accounts, abuser?
Seth Bullock
>>From: Bob Officer bobof...@supernews.com complaints can be sent to
>
> news...@supernews.net
>
>>Message-id: <f67ek0dg25vi8gvae...@4ax.com>
>
>
>>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:16 GMT, in alt.astrology, "Neptune"
>><Nep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>L,
>>>
>>>>You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
>>>>these results published?
>
>
>>>One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
>>>chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
>
>
>>Patterns?
>
>
>>>3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
>
>
>>because it just takes one non-fitting pattern to break your claim... and
>
>
> Nope, this is simply called an anomaly, which in science is typically just
> thrown out.
I guess you were an anomaly at SDSU, Kepler, and the place that evicted
you, then.
>
>>Just so you understand, the human mind sees things and functions by making
>>a set of established patterns. It often will create patterns where no
>>pattern really exists. Astrology has been
>
> Yes, exactly like your belief that astrology is dangerous. Exactly like the way
> you spinics stalk me for 8 years calling me names BELIEVING that this will have
> some effect even though all evidence indicates that none has occurred. This is
> a sure sign of insanity.
What, the writing of the two previous sentences, kook?
>
>
>>shown time and time again to be
>
>
> Incorrect Booby.
Wow. Really mature, Edmo.
>
>>such a pattern created where there is no real pattern. What makes it harder
>
>
> Yes, psychologically,
We'll not pay any attention to the piffling opinions of a non-expert in
the field, such as yourself.
wollma...@spam.free
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Jim Phillips
> L,
> > You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
> > these results published?
>
>
> One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
> chats,
Please list the names of the victims whose charts you examined.
> if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
> 3000 charts of these victims??
To demonstrate that there is such an effect?
> They seemed to fall under the same
> algorithm.
If you looked at a hundred random charts, what are the odds that a
similar algorithm would crop up?
> There are over 100,000+ dead people's record that I picked
> them randomly to analyze.
Where does one find "dead people's" records?
> I do not care if you don't believe me, if your choice.
If you don't care, then why did you reply?
Jim Phillips
> >From: Bob Officer bobof...@supernews.com complaints can be sent to
> news...@supernews.net
> >Message-id: <f67ek0dg25vi8gvae...@4ax.com>
>
> >On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 15:43:16 GMT, in alt.astrology, "Neptune"
> ><Nep...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>L,
> >>> You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
> >>> these results published?
>
> >>One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
> >>chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
>
> >Patterns?
>
> >>3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
>
> >because it just takes one non-fitting pattern to break your claim... and
>
> Nope, this is simply called an anomaly, which in science is typically just
> thrown out.
This statement clearly demonstrates that whatever else you may be,
you're no scientist.
snip
Larry Huntley
@attbi_s04, prounounced:
> L,
>> You have charts for all 3000 victims? And have analyzed them? Are
>> these results published?
>
>
> One man's truth is another man's Test. I have looked over 100 death
> chats, if the patterns show a repeated effect why do I need to look at
> 3000 charts of these victims?? They seemed to fall under the same
> algorithm. There are over 100,000+ dead people's record that I picked
> them randomly to analyze. I do not care if you don't believe me, if your
> choice.
I said nothing about believing or disbelieving anything. I asked you
if you had charts for all 3000 9/11 victims and had analyzed them, pre-
sumably before drawing your conclusion. I asked this because you
stated:
> To me, Karma is a predestined bad thing that was supposed to
> happen, for example the 9/11 victims. No body planned to get
> killed, but if you looked at their charts, you will see a
> significant sign of trouble on that day.
Now you say that you determined a "pattern" or "repeated effect"
based on 100 "death charts" (whatever those are) that "seem to fall
under the same algorithm" (whatever that's supposed to mean).
Unfortunately, 100 is not a statistically significant sample for a
population of 3000.
Had there been an analysis of a large enough sample and a definite
correlation had been identified, it might have made for an interes-
ting and lively discussion, something we see all too seldom here.
As it is, I will indeed choose to believe that you have not found
anything significant or interesting. I apologize for wasting your
time.
Esa
> On 14 Sep 2004 19:34:32 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>>
>>Happy to correct ;)
>
>
> Eddy won't be happy in being corrected...
That's bad for him :)
Actually, I'll have to correct myself, too :D
The name of the book should have been The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
Edmond Wollmann
IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one believes in
and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
system) then one will experience it.
It is BELIEF that motivates all to action--which then brings effects.
Therefore, BELIEF EVOKES "Karma". Those effects, like everytrhing else
in the Multiverse, have no built-in meaning until we give them some.
Therefore, when one removes the meaning they have given the Multiverse
and brings themselves to the centerpoint (Samsara) or limbo state,
they no longer need have any momentum at all--other than that which
they define and prefer to become manifest.
Saturn then simply becomes the physical catalyst of preference.
"Karma is simply an expression of momentum in a particular direction
with regard to what the higher self wishes to experience of itself.
All karma is self imposed. It is not a judgment. It is the recognition
of balance. It is the recognition of an idea that is being lived out,
that is being experienced, and the chosing of situations that will
allow for that experience to occur in physical reality." Bashar
When concious commandment is developed, then this particular direction
can be ONLY what one prefers.
http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/mercuria.htm
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Artworks http://www.astroconsulting.com/personal/
AOL http://hometown.aol.com/ehwollmann/myhomepage/business.html
Dan Baldwin
>
> When concious commandment is developed, then this particular direction
> can be ONLY what one prefers.
So you're saying you prefer being an impotent screed monger who's
powerless to stop the Wollmannizer? Ah, so noted.
> Edmond H. Wollmann
(.sig removed for clarity)
Spåmster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> It is BELIEF that motivates all to action--which then brings effects.
How about some action on my lawsuit, punk?
wollma...@spam.free
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Cujo DeSockpuppet
KEWL. Howz 'bout speaking aout some of those lawsuits so I can stop
living in February of 2002, kook?
> ALL IS BELIEF.
Great! I believe you're a nadless scumbag who will never show up at
Chang's with a police escort.
> Therefore, if one believes in
> and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
> system) then one will experience it.
That doesn't explains why you were so unaffected by all the ABUNDANCE you
claimed you deserved in the first fucking place, asshole.
> It is BELIEF that motivates all to action--which then brings effects.
> Therefore, BELIEF EVOKES "Karma".
No, you pissing off nice lady hackers invokes KARMA, motherfucker.
> Those effects, like everytrhing else
> in the Multiverse, have no built-in meaning until we give them some.
OK then, let's give some meaning to crab wontons and your powerlessness.
You're a gutless pantyheaded dumpster-diving loser that is reflected by
the uneaten crab wontons at PF Chang's. you chicklenshit.
> Therefore, when one removes the meaning they have given the Multiverse
> and brings themselves to the centerpoint (Samsara) or limbo state,
> they no longer need have any momentum at all--other than that which
> they define and prefer to become manifest.
Which means you want to be the Uberkook. Thanks for clearing that up.
> Saturn then simply becomes the physical catalyst of preference.
Saturn is a car you can't afford, just like used Pintos, Pacers and
Trabants.
<screedfest snipped>
You lose again, loser.
wollma...@spam.free
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el...@no.spam
Bob Officer <Ihat...@no-domain.no.mail@no-net> wrote:
>I suspect Eddy is talking out of his ass, again.
Well, it is where he keeps his head.
Seth Bullock
So, you rant and complain in NANAU becuse you believe that's hat you
should be doing, kook?
Esa
On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:26:49 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
> On 15 Sep 2004 16:20:27 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:04:17 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>> Eddy won't be happy in being corrected...
>>
>>That's bad for him :)
>>Actually, I'll have to correct myself, too :D
>>The name of the book should have been The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
>
> That's fine you don't seem to have a history of getting upset over being
> corrected.
I don't think I'm in a position to get upset for being corrected. I can
fear for being corrected in some occasions, but I don't see any point in
getting upset if I'm wrong and somebody else is right...
Esa
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qove8F...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> > "Edmond Wollmann" <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> > news:35325a08.04091...@posting.google.com...
>> >> For those so interested, karma is the momentum of an idea within the
>> idea
>> >> exploration of "ALL-That-Is (the mind of God). It is the natural flow of
>> >> e-motion (energy motion) generated by BELIEF that every intention
>> > possesses as
>
>> As it has been pointed out, it does not need to be believed. If it would,
>> there wouldn't be any point for anybody to believe in it.
>
>> Happy to correct ;)
>
>> Esa
>
> IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
> belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one believes in
> and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
> system) then one will experience it.
Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not agree
with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
hallucination, and so there wouldn't exist anything, ever, anywhere?
If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?
> It is BELIEF that motivates all to action--which then brings effects.
Does effect exist regardless of belief in your opinion?
> Therefore, BELIEF EVOKES "Karma". Those effects, like everytrhing else
> in the Multiverse, have no built-in meaning until we give them some.
Of cource, nothing is inherently good or bad.
> Therefore, when one removes the meaning they have given the Multiverse
> and brings themselves to the centerpoint (Samsara) or limbo state,
How is Samsara a centerpoint? Or limbo state (forgive me for not being
neither english speaking nor catholic)?
IMO, when one removes all meanings attached to the things in the world the
result is enlightenment, which is quite the opposite for Samsara. Did you,
by a chance, mean that instead? Though, I don't get that limbo in that
context, either.
> "Karma is simply an expression of momentum in a particular direction
> with regard to what the higher self wishes to experience of itself.
> All karma is self imposed. It is not a judgment. It is the recognition
> of balance. It is the recognition of an idea that is being lived out,
> that is being experienced, and the chosing of situations that will
> allow for that experience to occur in physical reality." Bashar
This is the same Bashar as at bashar.org? Fascinating... in an odd way. I
think I'll have to listen one of those tapes from that site to be able to
judge him. One might get quotes of similar lingual knots from Terence
McKenna from a web site with as little credibility... maybe as
insightful, also ;)
I think you and I interpret the quote differently, otherwise you would put
it there. Or I just don't understand it. Whichever :) But I don't see any
reference to your premise about karma being a belief.
> When concious commandment is developed, then this particular direction
> can be ONLY what one prefers.
I hope you don't mean that by developing one's consciousness enough one
can do whatever one wishes? I think that with a truly developed
consciousness one can only do the right thing in every situation,
otherwise one's consciousness wouldn't be developed enough.
I don't believe in "the dark side" :)
Edmond Wollmann
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:04:17 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > On 14 Sep 2004 19:34:32 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> > wrote:
> >>Happy to correct ;)
> > Eddy won't be happy in being corrected...
I wasn't corrected. I have expanded and refined the definitions, not
limited them. The ancients did not have the advantages of modern
academia and computers and the like as I do. I am a modern
metaphysician and renaissance man.
> That's bad for him :)
Good and bad are subjective value judgments, one who needs no longer
participate in "Karma" would know this. Because subjective values and
giving meaning to the Multiverse is what "causes" Karma.
> Actually, I'll have to correct myself, too :D
> The name of the book should have been The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.
> Esa
I have taken knowledge from the ancients and blended it with modern
academia, spiritual knowledge, science, philosophy, astrology, all of
metaphysics and logic.
I have no need for limited perpectives any longer.
"Let the mind be enlarged, according to its capacity, to the grandeur
of the mysteries, and not the mysteries contracted to the narrowness
of the mind. " -SIR FRANCIS
BACON
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Articles http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/info.htm
Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com/TOC.htm
Cujo DeSockpuppet
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:<2qr8ebF...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:04:17 -0700, Bob Officer
>> <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>> > On 14 Sep 2004 19:34:32 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa
>> > <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote:
>
>> >>Happy to correct ;)
>
>> > Eddy won't be happy in being corrected...
>
> I wasn't corrected.
I see you still can't recognize sarcasm at your expense. Pantyhead.
> I have expanded and refined the definitions, not
> limited them.
IOW, you made up a lot of shit and stole some other stuff and hope nobody
noticed and called you on it.
> The ancients did not have the advantages of modern
> academia and computers and the like as I do.
Right! You've been hit with the bootprint of more than one institute
where they attempted to teach you something and you think you need four
computers to store your coin collection. Whadda maroon.
> I am a modern metaphysician and renaissance man.
You are an award winning kook, Eddieeeeeeee.
>> That's bad for him :)
>
> Good and bad are subjective value judgments, one who needs no longer
> participate in "Karma" would know this.
So that makes it neither good nor bad to send you the ABUNDANCE you claim
you have a right to have. That's why you've whined about it for years.
> Because subjective values and
> giving meaning to the Multiverse is what "causes" Karma.
Only if giving means leaving a purse open around you!
>> Actually, I'll have to correct myself, too :D
>> The name of the book should have been The Tibetan Book of Living and
>> Dying.
>
>> Esa
>
> I have taken knowledge from the ancients and blended it with modern
> academia, spiritual knowledge, science, philosophy, astrology, all of
> metaphysics and logic.
You stole it all and have no original thoughts other than rilly kooky
ones, asshole.
> I have no need for limited perpectives any longer.
Nor clients for the last 8 years either.
How is my lawsuit going, Edmo?
wollma...@spam.free
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Seth Bullock
Then you've never been driving with Edmo when he's flipped it over on you.
>
> Esa
>
Seth Bullock
> I am a modern
> metaphysician and renaissance man.
You are a pathetic weed, a child-killing scumbag, a thieving plagiarist,
an incoherent fool, a delusional twat, a convicted criminal, a raving
loon, a pathological liar, a sociopath, and a major asshole.
However, you are quite entertaining!
Spåmster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> I have taken knowledge from the ancients and blended it with modern
> academia, spiritual knowledge, science, philosophy, astrology, all of
> metaphysics and logic.
>
You spelled plagiarized wrong.
HTH
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Spåmster
el...@no.spam wrote:
> In article <20040916225036.789$2...@news.newsreader.com>,
> He "mispelled" it? <snicker>
>
>
:-)
Esa
> On 16 Sep 2004 19:51:04 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not agree
>>with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
>>myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
>>hallucination, and so there wouldn't exist anything, ever, anywhere?
>>If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?
>
Does reality really exist? Oh, those great questions!
>>Of cource, nothing is inherently good or bad.
>
> However, the outcome can be both depending on the POV. One tries to weigh
> the possible outcomes of ones one actions and uses some sort of rational to
> pick actions to reach the best possible end product which fit the perceived
> needs.
There are always at least two possible points of view, one makes the
result look good and the other bad. It would be beneficial to get rid of
this polarity, it just makes (or seems to make) it easier to deal with
daily decisions.
> In other words he is not guilty of plagiarizing the text book, but admitted
> plagiarizing someone else's by not giving credit to this un-named
> instructor.
I would be inclined to call this kind of behaviour stupidity...
>>IMO, when one removes all meanings attached to the things in the world the
>>result is enlightenment, which is quite the opposite for Samsara. Did you,
>>by a chance, mean that instead? Though, I don't get that limbo in that
>>context, either.
>
> No when one sees everything without preconceived beliefs and bias then one
> is enlightened.
This is what I tried to say, but used "meanings" when there should've been
"bias" or "illusions".
>>This is the same Bashar as at bashar.org? Fascinating... in an odd way. I
>>think I'll have to listen one of those tapes from that site to be able to
>>judge him. One might get quotes of similar lingual knots from Terence
>>McKenna from a web site with as little credibility... maybe as
>>insightful, also ;)
>
> Yes, this is daryl... Bashar is a made up persona.
I don't have anything against made up personas, as long as they have
something sensible to say.
> Eddy's he describes is a path to what is often called a sociopathic
> personality. This is am end where the native justifies all his actions on
> the rational he either deserves or desires his goals Without regards to the
> needs or wants of others.
A good reason to hope he's wrong about what karma is...
> The personal history he has disclosed about his own actions as a youth and
> adult together with his current claims WRT to the rules of laws and ethics
> show he might have traveled very close to the point_of_no_return down a
> path of self destruction. He has already been responsible for the death of
> another person and shows no remorse for his action by rationalizing this
> person's choice to explore the path of death.
Yes, plenty of people bring these things up constantly, it is impossible
not to notice it. However, it's just words. I like to experience it myself
before making any judgment. Positive prejudice :)
Dan Baldwin
>
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qr8ebF...@uni-berlin.de>...
> > On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 14:04:17 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
> > > On 14 Sep 2004 19:34:32 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> > > wrote:
>
> > >>Happy to correct ;)
>
> > > Eddy won't be happy in being corrected...
>
> I wasn't corrected.
Right. Being corrected implies that you'd had the ability to learn from
your mistakes, which we all you you don't.
> some random dude, P.M.A.F.A.
Hey, wasn't there a copyright notice here before?
Esa
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qr8ebF...@uni-berlin.de>...
>
> Good and bad are subjective value judgments, one who needs no longer
> participate in "Karma" would know this. Because subjective values and
> giving meaning to the Multiverse is what "causes" Karma.
I haven't claimed I would be free of karma and samsara. But how about
basing good and bad on moral and ethics? Majority of people agree on what
is good and right even though they look at it through themselves.
Your point of view looks like extreme individualism, which (IMO) can only
lead to total chaos if large masses of people adopt it.
Besides, the quoted line was a figure of speech.
> I have taken knowledge from the ancients and blended it with modern
> academia, spiritual knowledge, science, philosophy, astrology, all of
> metaphysics and logic.
> I have no need for limited perpectives any longer.
You forgot reality. Unless it doesn't really exist, but in that case I
doubt that logic and science will also fail.
> "Let the mind be enlarged, according to its capacity, to the grandeur
> of the mysteries, and not the mysteries contracted to the narrowness
> of the mind. " -SIR FRANCIS
> BACON
I can only recommend works of Terence McKenna to you, he indeed expanded
his mind and created universal theories on time, reality, consciousness
etc. And he did it with huge amounts of different shamanic hallusinogens.
What's your secret?-)
Seth Bullock
>
>>I have taken knowledge from the ancients and blended it with modern
>>academia, spiritual knowledge, science, philosophy, astrology, all of
>>metaphysics and logic.
>>I have no need for limited perpectives any longer.
>
>
> You forgot reality.
He always does.
Dan Baldwin
If your reality was as horribly unpleasant as Edmo's I think you'd try
and forget it, too.
Chris Krolczyk
> I am a modern metaphysician and renaissance man.
BWWWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAA!
Lay off the glue, Wollmann. It's killing off
the few brains cells you've got left.
-Chris Krolczyk
Esa
> On 17 Sep 2004 16:03:44 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>>Does reality really exist? Oh, those great questions!
>
> somehow perceive changes in the matrix.
I think it's impossible to know for sure whether or not what we perceive
is real - unless there's an additional sense we aren't usually able to
use, which would reveal something beyond our normal senses.
>>There are always at least two possible points of view, one makes the
>>result look good and the other bad. It would be beneficial to get rid of
>>this polarity, it just makes (or seems to make) it easier to deal with
>>daily decisions.
>
> But there is a polarity. this seems to exist in the natural world. Notice I
> said making the choice in options.. Sometimes there are limited options. Do
> you play chess?
Not often, but I think I know what you mean... Seemingly bad moves can
lead to victory? But a (good) chess player knows where (s)he is aiming
when making the "bad" move, and this knowledge somewhat cancels the
"badness" of the move as it is a necessary step on the way to a good
position. The same move done by accident would be just bad as it most
likely will not lead to anything good (unless it confuses the opponent :)
...snip...
>>This is what I tried to say, but used "meanings" when there should've been
>>"bias" or "illusions".
>
> I know it is often hard to use the words which convey the meaning you are
> trying to get across.
That's why this kind of communication is so dangerous, as understanding is
based on the words only.
>>> Yes, this is daryl... Bashar is a made up persona.
>>
>>I don't have anything against made up personas, as long as they have
>>something sensible to say.
>
> How much money do you think this "sensible" persona should charge the
> rubes?
Well, I listened the two monologues from the web site... None?-)
Giving one's services or advices for free would increase my trust on the
person's honesty quite a lot as it would eliminate the possibility it's
just business for money. Even that would guarantee nothing, of course.
>>> Eddy's he describes is a path to what is often called a sociopathic
>>> personality. This is am end where the native justifies all his actions on
>>> the rational he either deserves or desires his goals Without regards to the
>>> needs or wants of others.
>>
>>A good reason to hope he's wrong about what karma is...
>
> Well, One needs to follow something I guess. Karma is just as good a horse
> to hitch your wagon to. I think it does less damage.
Whether you call it karma or not, actions do have effects and quite often
good comes back to the one who's good to the rest. I have no reason to
distrust the basic principle.
One could argue that it's caused by beneficial positioning of natal
Jupiter or Chiron or whatever, or just plain coincidence, but the world
seems to be nice to me as I'm nice to it.
>>Yes, plenty of people bring these things up constantly, it is impossible
>>not to notice it. However, it's just words. I like to experience it myself
>>before making any judgment. Positive prejudice :)
>
> You want to read his own words? I suggest visiting www.smbtech.com/ed to
> start. IT is a small archive of eddy's work.
I did not mean his writings in particular but how he acts toward a new
person with no history in the situation. With this constant stone-throwing
going on here it's impossible to objectively state who are the guilty
ones, to what degree they are guilty and for what they are guilty.
But more than that, I think it's good to remember: "Judge not, that ye be
not judged" :)
Seth Bullock
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:45:10 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>On 17 Sep 2004 16:03:44 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Does reality really exist? Oh, those great questions!
>>
>>There is something which exist. We seem to function inside a matrix, and
>>somehow perceive changes in the matrix.
>
>
> I think it's impossible to know for sure whether or not what we perceive
> is real
Let's see if someone throws a rock at your head. It's either going to
hurt like a real motherfucker or it will just be an illusion of perception.
Esa
<se...@ydeadwoodsdhardware.net> wrote:
> Esa wrote:
>
>> I think it's impossible to know for sure whether or not what we perceive
>> is real
>
> Let's see if someone throws a rock at your head. It's either going to
> hurt like a real motherfucker or it will just be an illusion of perception.
Of cource it will hurt, otherwise it would be quite clear it's only an
illusion. As in Matrix ;)
People do get sick if they believe it strongly enough... if you have every
reason to believe you've hit by a rock at your forehead, you could just
find it pretty easy to pass out. I think people with some sort of
psychosis could testify for this.
Esa
> On 19 Sep 2004 11:43:25 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 01:45:10 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>> There is something which exist. We seem to function inside a matrix, and
>>> somehow perceive changes in the matrix.
>>
>>I think it's impossible to know for sure whether or not what we perceive
>>is real - unless there's an additional sense we aren't usually able to
>>use, which would reveal something beyond our normal senses.
>
> to a cross check of perceptions though independent observation.
>
> How many times have you seen one person turn to the other and ask: "Did you
> see that?"
Quite many, and I have to use it myself, too. So we can't even be sure of
what we _can_ perceive is true, let alone those things we can't.
..snip..
> You have the concept... It is the outcome that someone uses to judge the
> motives sometimes.
>
> The moral question comes into play, it is proper to hurt someone for their
> own good or the good of the community?
>
> Moral question are the hardest, often there is no good answer, all results
> lead to bad ends...
I hope enough wisdom would provide good answer even on those occasions.
Or maybe it's just that "a clever man can manage situations a wise man
never gets involved in" :) (maybe this saying has another form in English?)
You are absolutely right, those are the hardest ones.
...snip...
>>Well, I listened the two monologues from the web site... None?-)
>>Giving one's services or advices for free would increase my trust on the
>>person's honesty quite a lot as it would eliminate the possibility it's
>>just business for money. Even that would guarantee nothing, of course.
>
> Have you even heard the Saying "There is no such thing as a Free Lunch?"
Yep. Yet there are many people who strictly think specially gifted people
(seers, healers etc) (let us suppose they really do have special
abilities) should not make their living from those special abilities, but
should have normal day jobs and only use their abilities to help people.
Nobody denies those who get helped from offering some payment, and I think
decent people do want to give something for payment if they are helped
out of their problems. Not everyone, of course.
...snip...
>>One could argue that it's caused by beneficial positioning of natal
>>Jupiter or Chiron or whatever, or just plain coincidence, but the world
>>seems to be nice to me as I'm nice to it.
>
> I often stop to help. nothing not even the fear of Karma makes me do it. I
> enjoy helping people, for the joy of offering a smile or a hand. I make no
> bones, I am not a counselor or man of god, I do nothing because of some
> carrot and stick. I do because I enjoy helping people... and not because of
> some sort of karmic debt.
I almost added there that I don't think "fishing for good karma" will
work. If one does good to others thinking that it will cause good to him,
it's still selfish. Wise selfishness, but still selfish. I do not
think of karma either if there's an opportunity to help someone.
> Eddy stated once the only reason he does astrology is for the money. Then
> eddy says he doesn't use the chart as anything except a prop for a reading,
> he depends on feedback from the native as he gives his "reading".
In that case I won't much respect him as an astrologer.
> Eddy is a well know net abuser. He has lost dozens of accounts and is kill
> filed by several US Government Agencies. You don't have to take my word for
> it. just set back and watch his actions.
I have no trouble believing your words :)
I just need to have the person prove it all to me himself. I think that
will happen swiftly...
Edmo
<wollma...@spam.free> wrote:
>
> http://www.smbtech.com/ed/
> http://www.nocem.org/
> http://www.rahul.net/falk/quickrefs.html#W
>
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> alt.astrology.metapsych alt.jyotish alt.paranormal alt.tarot
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SPNAK!!1!!
--
Questo messaggio e' stato inoltrato automaticamente
da un paio di anonymous remailer. Il mittente originale
e' sconosciuto e non identificabile. Datevi pace.
Esa
> On 20 Sep 2004 19:47:01 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>>I hope enough wisdom would provide good answer even on those occasions.
>>Or maybe it's just that "a clever man can manage situations a wise man
>>never gets involved in" :) (maybe this saying has another form in English?)
>
Know about the whole saying or another form for it? These are the hardest
things to translate, though this one doesn't depend on linguistic tricks.
Anyway, I think it summarises nicely the difference between wisdom and
intelligence... (yep, it should've been "intelligent" not "clever" :P )
>>Yep. Yet there are many people who strictly think specially gifted people
>>(seers, healers etc) (let us suppose they really do have special
>>abilities) should not make their living from those special abilities, but
>>should have normal day jobs and only use their abilities to help people.
>>Nobody denies those who get helped from offering some payment, and I think
>>decent people do want to give something for payment if they are helped
>>out of their problems. Not everyone, of course.
>
> However one must look at how honest and the ethics of the person involved.
> Once you look at his actions, you find you don't even want to be around
> this person.
Well, of course, but I think there aren't many unethical people willing to
spend their time without being paid just to give bad advice to others. A
truly mean person could do that, but not many have any reason to do that.
I find it somewhat funny that this conversation tries to converge to Ed
even though I try to avoid that subject...
> The open door to help a person, just because the person needs help is in
> itself reason to help. OFten times a smile or nod, is all it takes to help.
This must be one of the widest definitions for helping I've seen, but yes,
even a smile can help... And that's the only thing (besides being polite)
I can give in return to e.g. a customer service person who has helped me.
>>I just need to have the person prove it all to me himself. I think that
>>will happen swiftly...
>
> I set and watch the show... Do you like pop-corn? I makes some fresh for
> you...
No pop-corn thanks, I prefer not to eat while the show is on :)
Edmond Wollmann
> On 15 Sep 2004 10:09:32 -0700, Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qove8F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> ...snip...
> >> > "Edmond Wollmann" <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> > news:35325a08.04091...@posting.google.com...
> >> >> For those so interested, karma is the momentum of an idea within the
> idea
> >> >> exploration of "ALL-That-Is (the mind of God). It is the natural flow of
> >> >> e-motion (energy motion) generated by BELIEF that every intention
> >> > possesses as
> >> As it has been pointed out, it does not need to be believed. If it would,
> >> there wouldn't be any point for anybody to believe in it.
> >> Happy to correct ;)
> >> Esa
> > IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
> > belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one believes in
> > and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
> > system) then one will experience it.
> with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
> myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
REAL, but not all that is real is physical. Being physical does not
"make" something more real, it simply makes beliefs physical--a TYPE
of reality. Beliefs can also be non-physical, as in psychic material.
> hallucination, and so there wouldn't exist anything, ever, anywhere?
> If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?
No reality, which is not possible, because all is the effect of
ideation. The "ALL THAT IS" or "God", is simply all the ideation in
manifestation (consciousness sea) at any given moment--however, even
that idea is a misnomer, because even time and space are the effects
of ideation and are only "real" while you choose to experience them.
I explained this idea fully in the "Time Tracks" thread many years
ago.
> > It is BELIEF that motivates all to action--which then brings effects.
> Does effect exist regardless of belief in your opinion?
Not sure what you mean, I do not have beliefs in my opinion, I either
am consciously aware of ideas or not.
> > Therefore, BELIEF EVOKES "Karma". Those effects, like everything else
> > in the Multiverse, have no built-in meaning until we give them some.
> Of cource, nothing is inherently good or bad.
Exactly, so one's momentum (Karma) is neither good or bad either, it
simply is the effect of choices on all levels--as is stated in the
quote I gave by Bashar.
> > Therefore, when one removes the meaning they have given the Multiverse
> > and brings themselves to the centerpoint (Samsara) or limbo state,
> How is Samsara a centerpoint? Or limbo state (forgive me for not being
> neither english speaking nor catholic)?
The limbo state is simply a "pause" so to speak, wherein one has
exausted the momentum of the idea that they are and must decide what
new momentum they will initiate. Karma has been lived out and one is
no longer subject to it by reflex action (or feedback loop as
discussed also by Bashar), but is now in a position to act from
conviction of preference.
> IMO, when one removes all meanings attached to the things in the world the
> result is enlightenment, which is quite the opposite for Samsara. Did you,
Define enlightenment. Samsara is when one gets off the wheel of Karma.
> by a chance, mean that instead? Though, I don't get that limbo in that
> context, either.
> > "Karma is simply an expression of momentum in a particular direction
> > with regard to what the higher self wishes to experience of itself.
> > All karma is self imposed. It is not a judgment. It is the recognition
> > of balance. It is the recognition of an idea that is being lived out,
> > that is being experienced, and the chosing of situations that will
> > allow for that experience to occur in physical reality." Bashar
> This is the same Bashar as at bashar.org? Fascinating... in an odd way. I
> think I'll have to listen one of those tapes from that site to be able to
> judge him. One might get quotes of similar lingual knots from Terence
> McKenna from a web site with as little credibility... maybe as
> insightful, also ;)
Lingual knots are--like all of reality--in the eye of the beholder, as
is wisdom. If you observe the American electorate, you will see that
all that I have said is true, and that each of the 50/50 split of our
electorate truly BELIEVES that its alignment with one party or another
is "THE" truth.
> I think you and I interpret the quote differently, otherwise you would put
> it there. Or I just don't understand it. Whichever :) But I don't see any
> reference to your premise about karma being a belief.
"All Karma is self-imposed"... If you BELIEVE in the need for Karma,
then assuredly, you shall have it.
The human mind tends to look for patterns for a REASON, because there
ARE patterns, but that does not mean that the patterns carry with
them, judgments.
> > When concious commandment is developed, then this particular direction
> > can be ONLY what one prefers.
> I hope you don't mean that by developing one's consciousness enough one
> can do whatever one wishes? I think that with a truly developed
Why!!?? Oh how terrible! One can do what one wishes in integrity
without guilt SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY REAL-IZE THEIR CREATOR WOULD NOT
HAVE CREATED THEM WITHOUT THAT ABILITY OR OTHERWISE. Yes, I realize
how difficult this is, because humans have so imprinted their own
consciousness with the concept that they do NOT deserve happiness and
abundance simply because they exist, that they believe THIS belief is
the foundation of the Multiverse--when IT ISN'T.
I have faith in their ability to REDEFINE that idea, no matter HOW
miserable they insist it MUST be.
> consciousness one can only do the right thing in every situation,
> otherwise one's consciousness wouldn't be developed enough.
> I don't believe in "the dark side" :)
And where is that ultimate yardstick, and who is going to interpret
the "right thing" that you believe to exist and that "enlightened
persons" would always do? Which right? The developed consciousness
realizes there is NO ONE TRUTH, except that the truth is the
composition of all truths that have ever been or will ever be.
> Esa
"Each man takes care that his neighbor shall not cheat him. But a day
comes when he begins to care that he does not cheat his neighbor. Then
all goes well - he has changed his market-cart into a chariot of the
sun."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Artworks http://www.astroconsulting.com/personal/
AOL http://hometown.aol.com/ehwollmann/myhomepage/business.html
Dan Baldwin
>
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qu957F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> >
> > Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not agree
> > with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
> > myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
>
> You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
> REAL
other than Edmo's master's track, his clients, the PhDs he claims to
counsel, his legal right to offer those services, his decency, his
morality, his integrity, his ability to feel empathy for other people,
and his many lawsuits which will be served Real Soon Now.
So then it would appear that not everything is real after all.
> Ed H. W.
a person who hates it when his .sig gets chopped up.
wollma...@spam.free
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Spåmster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
> REAL, but not all that is real is physical.
Your kook awards are real.
Cujo DeSockpuppet
> You are confusing [slap]
I've tried to read your book, Edmo. Even the confusion in the book was
confused.
I'd say you have a lot of imaginary nads to call someone else confused.
Chris Krolczyk
> You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--
Dont'cha just love it when the terminally incoherent among us
accuse *other* people of being confused?
-Chris Krolczyk
Esa
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qu957F...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> On 15 Sep 2004 10:09:32 -0700, Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> > IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
>> > belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one believes in
>> > and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
>> > system) then one will experience it.
>
>> Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not agree
>> with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
>> myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
>
> You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
> REAL, but not all that is real is physical. Being physical does not
> "make" something more real, it simply makes beliefs physical--a TYPE
> of reality. Beliefs can also be non-physical, as in psychic material.
I have no problem with non-physical things being also real.
You are saying "all is belief" and then "all is real". Belief, by
definition, is something that _is_held_ true or factual. Real, instead, is
something that _is_ true or factual. Thus, what you're saying
appears only be true when one believes in the reality and nothing more.
Would you, please, say it all in other words?
>> hallucination, and so there wouldn't exist anything, ever, anywhere?
>> If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?
>
> No reality, which is not possible, because all is the effect of
> ideation.
I tried to figure out what that means in plain Engligh, but failed
miserably :P
>> Does effect exist regardless of belief in your opinion?
>
> Not sure what you mean, I do not have beliefs in my opinion, I either
> am consciously aware of ideas or not.
Isn't "in my opinion" a statement of BELIEF?-)
> The limbo state is simply a "pause" so to speak, wherein one has
> exausted the momentum of the idea that they are and must decide what
> new momentum they will initiate. Karma has been lived out and one is
> no longer subject to it by reflex action (or feedback loop as
> discussed also by Bashar), but is now in a position to act from
> conviction of preference.
Does sound a bit off from the definitions for limbo state I found on the
net, but will accept that in the context of this thread.
>> IMO, when one removes all meanings attached to the things in the world the
>> result is enlightenment, which is quite the opposite for Samsara. Did you,
>
> Define enlightenment. Samsara is when one gets off the wheel of Karma.
Enlightenment is when all beliefs about things are abondoned thus
allowing one to see objectively the true nature of all. Please do note the
correction regarding the word "meanings" I made after Bob Officer made a
note of it.
You should check the meanings of the foreign words you use more often:
"Samsara
1. (Hinduism; Buddhism) the endless cycle of birth and suffering and death
and rebirth."
(http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/sa/samsara.html)
Or, if you prefer more a definition based on the ancients:
"The Hindus long before this [the period in which the Upanishads were
written] had integrated the concept of reincarnation
into their religion; the Vedic Brahmanas speculate about 'death after
death,' or a death in the afterlife that returns one to life. This
concept, along with that of karma, in which all action is seen as the
result of previous action and the cause of future action, were combined in
the Upanishads to produce the meaning of samsara as 'reincarnation based
on past actions.' " - Richard Hooker
(http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GLOSSARY/SAMSARA.HTM)
> Lingual knots are--like all of reality--in the eye of the beholder, as
> is wisdom. If you observe the American electorate, you will see that
> all that I have said is true, and that each of the 50/50 split of our
> electorate truly BELIEVES that its alignment with one party or another
> is "THE" truth.
Please do not ask me to comment the whole American people based on the
leaders they elect... Not that there would seem to be much wiser people in
that sense in other coutries either.
I think we should strive for clear expression for the sake of
understanding.
>> I think you and I interpret the quote differently, otherwise you would put
>> it there. Or I just don't understand it. Whichever :) But I don't see any
>> reference to your premise about karma being a belief.
>
> "All Karma is self-imposed"... If you BELIEVE in the need for Karma,
> then assuredly, you shall have it.
Oh yes, as I thought, you and I understand that in a different way. I
could be wrong with my interpretation, but I interpret that in the sense
that "all karma has its basis in our own actions and thus we impose it".
It could be my inadequate English skills, but I think this is a good
example why everything should be said clearly. It is possible Bashar meant
it the way you interpret it, but I can not know what he meant or didn't
mean, neither can you.
>> I hope you don't mean that by developing one's consciousness enough one
>> can do whatever one wishes? I think that with a truly developed
>
> Why!!?? Oh how terrible! One can do what one wishes in integrity
> without guilt SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY REAL-IZE THEIR CREATOR WOULD NOT
> HAVE CREATED THEM WITHOUT THAT ABILITY OR OTHERWISE. Yes, I realize
Oh, so we have been created with free will with the intent that we do what
we want and not consider the effects at all? I hate that kind of
hedonistic hyper-individualism that has not caused anything good. Do you
realize that our wishes don't fit together? They always will collide, and
if everyone had adopted your view, in the end people would only abuse,
rape and kill each other and the nature even in greater amounts just
because "I was in a hurry, it's his fault he slowed me down" or "she
didn't want to have sex with me". Would you consider this a good result?
People have the habit of being greedy and jealous and lack of empathy,
that's why we need rules (spiritual and mundane) which prohibit us from
doing everything we'd like to do. We need even stupid rules to keep
idiotic people from doing stupid things, and I am more and more willing to
bear with those stupid rules just for the whole world's sake.
Or should we start splitting hairs on the usage of words "can", "be
able to" and "be allowed to"? Of cource one _can_ do anything one wishes
in the sense "one _is_able_to_ do anything...", given the limits of one's
abilities. I just think one should not _be_allowed_to_ do anything one
wishes.
> I have faith in their ability to REDEFINE that idea, no matter HOW
> miserable they insist it MUST be.
I must say every day that seems to be closer. I pity that.
> And where is that ultimate yardstick, and who is going to interpret
> the "right thing" that you believe to exist and that "enlightened
> persons" would always do? Which right? The developed consciousness
"Do want you would like to be done to yourself" is a good start. Excluding
masochists, psychopaths etc it works pretty well.
> realizes there is NO ONE TRUTH, except that the truth is the
> composition of all truths that have ever been or will ever be.
There you are talking about beliefs again, not truth.
> "Each man takes care that his neighbor shall not cheat him. But a day
> comes when he begins to care that he does not cheat his neighbor. Then
> all goes well - he has changed his market-cart into a chariot of the
> sun."
> Ralph Waldo Emerson
This seems to be in sharp contrast with everything you wrote above.
Or do you just understand that differently, too?
Esa
> On 21 Sep 2004 16:16:21 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:53:58 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>> On 20 Sep 2004 19:47:01 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
>>> wrote:
>>>>Or maybe it's just that "a clever man can manage situations a wise man
>>>>never gets involved in" :) (maybe this saying has another form in English?)
>>>
>>> Not that I know about...
>>
>>intelligence... (yep, it should've been "intelligent" not "clever" :P )
>
> is nothing different. however the word *Clever* has about a dozen different
> levels including the one for an evil and undesirable sense... as in "clever
> like a fox" which means you can often bend other people to your will or
> needs.
Oh... Well, the correction was needed just because in the original form I
heard Finnish word "älykäs" was used, and it is equal to the English word
intelligent. And as we're using English here, I assume intelligent and
wise are a bit different, though "wise" seems to drift toward
"intelligent" in its meaning.
>>> However one must look at how honest and the ethics of the person involved.
>>> Once you look at his actions, you find you don't even want to be around
>>> this person.
>>
>>Well, of course, but I think there aren't many unethical people willing to
>>spend their time without being paid just to give bad advice to others. A
>>truly mean person could do that, but not many have any reason to do that.
>
> a truly evil person... To do something only to cause harm. Why would
> someone do something they know is harmful to others, in the guise of
> helping?
Because of twisted mind which takes pleasure in harming others?
But as I said, it's just because of the rareness of such a mindset I think
a service given away for free is a sign of sincere will to help.
> I always try to find the name of the person, Us it look at hem when you are
> talking to them. Treat them like a person not a servant. Simple polite
> words and actions will show the person appreciation of their job. Small but
> sincere words of praise to their supervisors may be nice.
In Finland today, when smiling and little polite words are not as common
as in, well, many other countries, that would be nearly flattering :)
People working here as bus drivers or sales clerks in supermarkets don't
often get to hear even a simple "hello" or "thank you" these days. Due to
cultural differences it's maybe considered not as rude here as in, for
example, USA and definately not as insulting as it would be in UK or
France.
>>No pop-corn thanks, I prefer not to eat while the show is on :)
>
> I advise not drinking anything either, it is not good for keyboards or
> monitors.
Good point :)
Al Smith
>>> then assuredly, you shall have it.
>
>
> Oh yes, as I thought, you and I understand that in a different way. I
> could be wrong with my interpretation, but I interpret that in the sense
> that "all karma has its basis in our own actions and thus we impose it".
> It could be my inadequate English skills, but I think this is a good
> example why everything should be said clearly. It is possible Bashar meant
> it the way you interpret it, but I can not know what he meant or didn't
> mean, neither can you.
>
Whether karma is to be considered self-imposed depends on how you
look at free will. True, any person can change their karma at any
time simply by changing their actions and responses. However, this
does not mean that they are able to do so. Individuals, because of
existing karma, are unable to take certain actions, or make
certain responses, that would renovate their karma in the future.
The only way to do this is to transcend ordinary consciousness.
All actions that radically change karma are transcendent actions.
Let's take as an example a woman who is obese, and whose karma
dictates that she will die from heart failure in her 40s. Sure,
all she has to do to change her karma is to eat less every day,
and the fat will diminish. She just has to exercise, and her
cardio-vascular health will improve. However, some overweight
individuals are incapable, on their own, of doing these things.
Others look at them and shake their heads, because the solution to
their problem seems so obvious and easy. To them, it isn't easy.
They simply cannot stay on a diet. Their minds play tricks to
prevent them from losing weight.
For this sort of person, the only answer is to look outside
themselves, and see their problem from a higher vantage. From this
fresh perspective, they may be able to take a new approach to the
problem of weight loss and succeed, where they failed repeatedly
in the past.
Such transcendence of ordinary consciousness is not that common an
occurrence. Sometimes a traumatic event can bring it about -- can
literally shake a person out of their ordinary way of viewing
themselves and their world. Other times, it just happens on its
own, for no obvious external reason.
I guess the answer is that no one can change karma by working
within that karma. In order to change karma, you must first
transcend karma, and see it from the outside, as it were. We are
all potentially capable of doing this, because in addition to our
ordinary consciousness, we have a higher consciousness. Trouble
is, that higher consciousness usually remains mute, and seldom
interferes with our physical lives. Running life from day to day
is left up to ordinary consciousness.
Any time higher consciousness steps in and acts, our lives change
radically and immediately, in what appears to us to be a
miraculous manner. These changes are always showy and spectacular,
but they are miraculous because they transcend karma.
Esa
> On 25 Sep 2004 15:03:48 GMT, in alt.astrology, Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:17:02 -0700, Bob Officer <bobof...@invalid.net> wrote:
>>Oh... Well, the correction was needed just because in the original form I
>>heard Finnish word "älykäs" was used, and it is equal to the English word
>>intelligent. And as we're using English here, I assume intelligent and
>>wise are a bit different, though "wise" seems to drift toward
>>"intelligent" in its meaning.
>
> knowledge. Wise has more to do with how to use the knowledge.
>
> A person wise beyond their years is not only intelligent, but has the
> ability to put their knowledge to *good* uses.
That's pretty much the definition I would've used myself :)
>>But as I said, it's just because of the rareness of such a mindset I think
>>a service given away for free is a sign of sincere will to help.
>
> That's true giving should never have a price tag... or even an understood
> quid pro.. Giving is not and should not be an exchange.
Yes, of cource, if it would have a price tag, I'd call it 'selling', not
'giving' :)
If someone is in need of help, I don't think its appropriate to ask money
for it, at least if it helping only requires my time and effort. If it
requires some additional resources that I'll have to buy first, however,
I would expect to get back the money I spent for those resources - unless
the cost is not worth mentioning or it would be unfair to ask it because
the one in need has even less money than I have.
> Even today in USA, People have developed a shallowness with such words as
> "have a nice day" having become a commercialize phrase used to sell the
> people something.
Well, Finns have never been good at small talk and many think it's quite
unsincere. I, being a typical man of few words, think that small talk is
_small_ talk, kind of dust of words. However, it depends much on the
culture of an individual. I know a few African people and they do always
this "how are you" thing that I normally consider only shallow words, but
in their case I try to think it's politeness and part of their culture
which is more social than mine.
> It is a degree of insincerity that has become appalling. Rudeness is a
> norm. Walk down the street with a frozen face, never looking at anyone or
> anything.
I have found it amusing to sometimes walk out there smiling... People do
notice it, and the best part is that they sometimes do smile back (I don't
much care even if it's because they are silently laughing at me) :)
Esa
> Whether karma is to be considered self-imposed depends on how you
> look at free will. True, any person can change their karma at any
> time simply by changing their actions and responses. However, this
> does not mean that they are able to do so. Individuals, because of
Based on what is said below, I think it's not entirely dependent on will,
but also on our innate tendencies. Our habits (and thus our mind) fights
against us when we try to change. Also, remember there must always be the
effect of past actions which IMO will create some sort of inertia in the
system. The effects of what has happened in the past will drag one down
no matter how great changes would happen at an instant.
> Let's take as an example a woman who is obese, and whose karma
> dictates that she will die from heart failure in her 40s. Sure,
> all she has to do to change her karma is to eat less every day,
> and the fat will diminish. She just has to exercise, and her
> cardio-vascular health will improve. However, some overweight
> individuals are incapable, on their own, of doing these things.
This start really to drift from astrology, but here it goes...
As out topic is a buddhist or hinduist term, we need to consider past
lives too.
It is hard to change all the habits accumulated in the past lives, and if
one has habits which lead to eating too much in general (or too much high
calorie food or snacks) and excercising too little - overindulgence in
pleasures of the body and physical laziness, for example - it's hard to
break the pattern.
The change requires true will to change, if there is no such a will the
attempt will fail when things get too uncomfortable. With a strong enough
will there ought to be some success, but not all things can be changed in
one life, as the reasons are accumulated during many lives.
For example, if the obesity is caused by a bodily dysfunction, nothing
much can happen in the life with that body.
> Any time higher consciousness steps in and acts, our lives change
> radically and immediately, in what appears to us to be a
> miraculous manner. These changes are always showy and spectacular,
> but they are miraculous because they transcend karma.
Might well be so, people tend to have those moments after near-death
experiences and other tragic incidents, as you said.
I still don't think every change will have to happen suddenly, there is
nearly an infinity left to change those ill tendencies.
Edmond Wollmann
> On 23 Sep 2004 09:58:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message news:<2qu957F...@uni-berlin.de>...
> >> On 15 Sep 2004 10:09:32 -0700, Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> > IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
> >> > belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one believes in
> >> > and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself is a belief
> >> > system) then one will experience it.
> >> Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not agree
> >> with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would mean the world,
> >> myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The belief would be a
> > You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
> > REAL, but not all that is real is physical. Being physical does not
> > "make" something more real, it simply makes beliefs physical--a TYPE
> > of reality. Beliefs can also be non-physical, as in psychic material.
> I have no problem with non-physical things being also real.
Then ALL IS REAL, even concepts, imaginings and BELIEFS.
> You are saying "all is belief" and then "all is real". Belief, by
> definition, is something that _is_held_ true or factual.
Exactly, there is no reality otherwise.
> Real, instead, is
> something that _is_ true or factual. Thus, what you're saying
There is NO "_is_ true or factual" unless of course you BELIEVE this
to be "the" truth.
If you can be objective for a moment, you will see that history
confirms this assertion, for example, in that it used to be believed
that the Sun revolved around the Earth--those were the "FACTS" of the
timing, later to be REAL-IZED as "false". They were true when believed
in and now not.
> appears only be true when one believes in the reality and nothing more.
Yes, exactly.
> Would you, please, say it all in other words?
No other words necessary, you said it perfectly.
> >> hallucination, and so there wouldn't exist anything, ever, anywhere?
> >> If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?
> > No reality, which is not possible, because all is the effect of
> > ideation.
> I tried to figure out what that means in plain Engligh, but failed
> miserably :P
You said:"If you give up of all beliefs, what will be left?"
I replied:"No reality, which is not possible, because all is the
effect of ideation." (belief induction).
> >> Does effect exist regardless of belief in your opinion?
> > Not sure what you mean, I do not have beliefs in my opinion, I either
> > am consciously aware of ideas or not.
> Isn't "in my opinion" a statement of BELIEF?-)
Exactly, and that TRUTH will be true for the person, regardless of all
other truths.
> > The limbo state is simply a "pause" so to speak, wherein one has
> > exausted the momentum of the idea that they are and must decide what
> > new momentum they will initiate. Karma has been lived out and one is
> > no longer subject to it by reflex action (or feedback loop as
> > discussed also by Bashar), but is now in a position to act from
> > conviction of preference.
> Does sound a bit off from the definitions for limbo state I found on the
> net, but will accept that in the context of this thread.
Good, that is how it was intended.
> >> IMO, when one removes all meanings attached to the things in the world the
> >> result is enlightenment, which is quite the opposite for Samsara. Did you,
> > Define enlightenment. Samsara is when one gets off the wheel of Karma.
Sorry, I meant release from Samsara.
> Enlightenment is when all beliefs about things are abondoned thus
NOT POSSIBLE. Like the scientific methods this "release from beliefs"
is in matters of degree and relativity, there is no such thing as
complete release from PERCEPTIONS of reality, perceptions CREATE the
reality.
> allowing one to see objectively the true nature of all. Please do note the
One can be more dissassociated from certain belief systems, but they
will be replaced with the persons own system of reinforcing logic
(truth for them).
"Dissociated=or dissassociated in this way will be one of the
mechanisms that can be created in a positive or negative sense to give
yourself the perspective of looking at something that you have done
from what you consider to be an objective point of view. It is the
removal of yourself from a previous perspective while still
maintaining a model of that perspective in order to view it from
seemingly outside the orginal perspective." Bashar "The New
Metaphysics"
> correction regarding the word "meanings" I made after Bob Officer made a
> note of it.
> You should check the meanings of the foreign words you use more often:
> "Samsara
> 1. (Hinduism; Buddhism) the endless cycle of birth and suffering and death
> and rebirth."
Yes, which one can release themselves from when they so CHOOSE to do
so. Because ALL IS FREE WILL choice.
> (http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/sa/samsara.html)
> Or, if you prefer more a definition based on the ancients:
> "The Hindus long before this [the period in which the Upanishads were
> written] had integrated the concept of reincarnation
> into their religion; the Vedic Brahmanas speculate about 'death after
> death,' or a death in the afterlife that returns one to life. This
> concept, along with that of karma, in which all action is seen as the
> result of previous action and the cause of future action, were combined in
> the Upanishads to produce the meaning of samsara as 'reincarnation based
> on past actions.' " - Richard Hooker
> (http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GLOSSARY/SAMSARA.HTM)
> > Lingual knots are--like all of reality--in the eye of the beholder, as
> > is wisdom. If you observe the American electorate, you will see that
> > all that I have said is true, and that each of the 50/50 split of our
> > electorate truly BELIEVES that its alignment with one party or another
> > is "THE" truth.
> Please do not ask me to comment the whole American people based on the
> leaders they elect... Not that there would seem to be much wiser people in
> that sense in other coutries either.
> I think we should strive for clear expression for the sake of
> understanding.
You missed the point, the point is the polls show an almost exact
division 50/50 of the electorate, both INSIST that their "side" is
true, therefore demonstrating the concept I always discuss of beliefs
creating reality.
> >> I think you and I interpret the quote differently, otherwise you would put
> >> it there. Or I just don't understand it. Whichever :) But I don't see any
> >> reference to your premise about karma being a belief.
> > "All Karma is self-imposed"... If you BELIEVE in the need for Karma,
> > then assuredly, you shall have it.
> Oh yes, as I thought, you and I understand that in a different way. I
> could be wrong with my interpretation, but I interpret that in the sense
> that "all karma has its basis in our own actions and thus we impose it".
You again miss the point. We must BELIEVE that our actions MUST HAVE
REACTIONS before we are bound to our actions. One who accelarates at a
more brisk pace can gain insight and alter the course of creation in
their reality before any REACTION is necessary. Once off the Samsara
wheel, one need not be subject to its primative notions.
> It could be my inadequate English skills, but I think this is a good
> example why everything should be said clearly. It is possible Bashar meant
> it the way you interpret it, but I can not know what he meant or didn't
> mean, neither can you.
So you admit that we create our own versions of his assertion, which
paradoxically, proves his notions to begin with.
> >> I hope you don't mean that by developing one's consciousness enough one
> >> can do whatever one wishes? I think that with a truly developed
> > Why!!?? Oh how terrible! One can do what one wishes in integrity
> > without guilt SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY REAL-IZE THEIR CREATOR WOULD NOT
> > HAVE CREATED THEM WITHOUT THAT ABILITY OR OTHERWISE. Yes, I realize
> Oh, so we have been created with free will with the intent that we do what
> we want and not consider the effects at all? I hate that kind of
You MUST read more carefully, I said:"...One can do what one wishes in
integrity..."
http://astroconsulting.com/FAQs/essays_2.htm#how
Not considering effects at all is irrespponsible, something you added
(because of your beliefs) which was not inherent in my original
assertion--because you CREATED that reality.
> hedonistic hyper-individualism that has not caused anything good.
You are now rambling with hyperbole.
>Do you
> realize that our wishes don't fit together? They always will collide, and
> if everyone had adopted your view, in the end people would only abuse,
> rape and kill each other and the nature even in greater amounts just
Only if out of integrity and believing themselves powerless-which is
what most have been taught they are. You are demonstrating beliefs
that promote that idea, not bring about its ceassation. You make leaps
of assumptions based on your belief system, hence once again
demonstrating hjow we create reality where none independently exists.
> because "I was in a hurry, it's his fault he slowed me down" or "she
> didn't want to have sex with me". Would you consider this a good result?
> People have the habit of being greedy and jealous and lack of empathy,
> that's why we need rules (spiritual and mundane) which prohibit us from
> doing everything we'd like to do. We need even stupid rules to keep
> idiotic people from doing stupid things, and I am more and more willing to
> bear with those stupid rules just for the whole world's sake.
Please read the above until you get it.
> Or should we start splitting hairs on the usage of words "can", "be
> able to" and "be allowed to"? Of cource one _can_ do anything one wishes
> in the sense "one _is_able_to_ do anything...", given the limits of one's
> abilities. I just think one should not _be_allowed_to_ do anything one
> wishes.
Wishing from integrity and wishing from base drives one believes they
are denied are two different realities with the same catalyst.
> > I have faith in their ability to REDEFINE that idea, no matter HOW
> > miserable they insist it MUST be.
> I must say every day that seems to be closer. I pity that.
> > And where is that ultimate yardstick, and who is going to interpret
> > the "right thing" that you believe to exist and that "enlightened
> > persons" would always do? Which right? The developed consciousness
> "Do want you would like to be done to yourself" is a good start. Excluding
> masochists, psychopaths etc it works pretty well.
Not really, because it still emenates from physical motives and
superficial self-preservation instincts rather than from the intellect
and awareness.
> > realizes there is NO ONE TRUTH, except that the truth is the
> > composition of all truths that have ever been or will ever be.
> There you are talking about beliefs again, not truth.
There you go again separating them as if they are two different
things. But you have been taught that belief from birth, it is easy to
understand how you believe it to be the foundation of the
universe--when it isn't.
> > "Each man takes care that his neighbor shall not cheat him. But a day
> > comes when he begins to care that he does not cheat his neighbor. Then
> > all goes well - he has changed his market-cart into a chariot of the
> > sun."
> > Ralph Waldo Emerson
> This seems to be in sharp contrast with everything you wrote above.
> Or do you just understand that differently, too?
No, it conforms perfectly to all that I say, but after one has moved
well into the use of chariots as opposed to market-carts, he appears
smaller and more confused than his counterparts below whose vision is
still obstructed by other market-carts and the cheating they employ.
> Esa
Now, it is your turn to read some defintions and more expanded views
of reality.
Thanks for your posts.
The universe does not seem to exist without a
perceiver of that universe.
Well, at some level this certainly makes sense. Even the word
"universe" is a human construct. So it would make some kind of sense
that what we call the universe depends on our word-making capacity as
human beings. But is this observation any deeper than a simple
question of semantics? For example, before there were human beings,
was there a universe? It would seem that there was. Before we
discovered the atomic nature of matter, were there atoms around?
Again, logic dictates that the laws of nature, forces and causes,
etc., even though we didn't know about such things as atoms and
subatomic particles, certainly had to exist.
But it is just these assumptions about objective reality that have
been called into question by our present understanding of physics.
Take, for example, a simple particle, the electron. Is it a little
speck of matter? It turns out that to assume that it is such,
consistently behaving itself as such, is clearly wrong. For at times
it appears to be a cloud made up of an infinite number of possible
electrons that "appear" as a single particle when and only when we
observe one. Furthermore, when it is not a single particle it appears
to be an undulating wavelike cloud that is capable of moving at speeds
in excess of light speed, totally contradicting the Einstein concern
that nothing material can move faster than light. But Einstein's worry
is assuaged, for when it moves this way it is not actually a piece of
matter Take as another example the interaction between two electrons.
According to quantum physics, even though the two electrons may be
vast distances apart, the results of observations carried out upon
them indicate that there must be some connection between them that
allows communication to move faster than light. Yet before those
observations, before a conscious observer made up his or her mind,
even the form of the connection was totally indeterminate. And as a
third example, a quantum system such as an electron in a bound
physical state appears to be in an indeterminate state, and yet the
indeterminacy can be analyzed into component certainties that somehow
add to the original uncertainty. Then along comes an observer who,
like some gigantic Alexander chopping the Gordian knot, resolves the
uncertainty into a single, definite but unpredictable state simply by
observing the electron.
Not only that, the blow of the sword could come in the future
determining what state the electron is in now. For we have now even
the possibility that observations in the present legitimately
determine what we can say was the past.
Thus we have come to the end of a road once again. There is too much
quantum weirdness around, too many experiments showing that the
objective world-one that is running forward in time like a clock, one
that says action at a distance, particularly instantaneous action at a
distance, is not possible, one that says a thing cannot be in two or
more places at the same time-is an illusion of our thinking.
Amit Goswami Ph.D. (Physics) "Self Aware Universe"
The most commonly debated issue, whether (alien) abductions are
really taking place, leads us to the center of questions about
perception and levels of consciousness.
The most glaring question is whether there is
any reality independent of consciousness.
At the level of personal consciousness, can we apprehend reality
directly, or are we by necessity bound by the restrictions of our
five senses and the mind that organizes our worldview?
Is there a shared, collective consciousness that operates beyond our
individual consciousness? If there is a collective consciousness, how
is it influenced, and what determines its content?
Is UFO abduction a product of this shared consciousness? If, as in
some cultures, consciousness pervades all elements of the universe,
then what function do events like UFO abductions and various mystical
experiences play in our psyches and in the rest of the cosmos?
John E. Mack M.D. (Psychiatrist-Harvard) "Abductions"
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Articles http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/info.htm
Artworks http://www.e-wollmann.com/TOC.htm
EHWollmann
Yes, exactly.
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
(C) 2004 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Spåmster
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Then ALL IS REAL, even concepts,
Your kook awards and lack of integrity.
Spåmster
EHWollmann wrote:
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
Spamming noted.
Cujo DeSockpuppet
> Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:<2rldklF...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> On 23 Sep 2004 09:58:25 -0700, Edmond Wollmann <alcha...@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Esa <e...@somewhere.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:<2qu957F...@uni-berlin.de>...
>> >> On 15 Sep 2004 10:09:32 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
>> >> <alcha...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >> > IT does need to be "believed in" for action is the conviction of
>> >> > belief--or action SPEAKS. ALL IS BELIEF. Therefore, if one
>> >> > believes in and needs the idea of Karma (which in and of itself
>> >> > is a belief system) then one will experience it.
>
>> >> Action is the belief realized? Ok, I can agree with that. I do not
>> >> agree with the next premise ("all is belief") because that would
>> >> mean the world, myself and my consciousness a hallucination. The
>> >> belief would be a
>
>> > You are confusing the concept of reality with physicality--ALL IS
>> > REAL, but not all that is real is physical. Being physical does not
>> > "make" something more real, it simply makes beliefs physical--a
>> > TYPE of reality. Beliefs can also be non-physical, as in psychic
>> > material.
>
>> I have no problem with non-physical things being also real.
>
> Then ALL IS REAL, even concepts, imaginings and BELIEFS.
Nice to note you still can't figure out the difference between delusional
and real, kook.
But let's get back to physical things like your degrees, castle and
airstrip. They're obviously delusional.
I have no problem with non-physical things being delusions either. Let's
take your phantom lawsuits for an example, Pantyhead. You can't even get
your crack legal team to tell you where I live or where I work.
--
Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in
dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych.
Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte!
Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!.
Official Slapper of Spamming Mary the Drama Queen. Meow.
"I wrote a REFERENCED researched book, that names everyone who's
ideas are integrated within it. Soon my warchest will be large ebough to
to sue the fuck out of you for your lible and defamation, and when that
days comes you can be sure I will publish IT everywhere as well." - Edmo
buckethead
Dude, you're nuts.
--
Known Pinheads:
Archie Leach, Fox Mulder, Ken Pangborn, Earl Something, The space boss,
Brandon Hex, Mike SIgman, Richard Bullis, Allan Connor, Joey Bartload,
Eddie Wollman, Dan Kettler, Viv Eshwar and Doctor Jai, FArris Jarwad,
Twonky and so many others, even you, Ray.
wollma...@spam.free
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