Saturn Signs
E. Wollmann
greatest fears about the experience of physical reality. Therefore it
represents the strongest momentum of belief overall, likely to manifest.
It represents the Archetype of the father figure. and the relationship
with the father or father figure, will be a prominent issue in
connection with the belief represented. Replacing fear with trust is the
resolution to Saturn.
Tremendous overcompensation occurs psychologically (within the
archetype sign) and house placement of Saturn. The identity through
overdoing, overstrategizing, and overcontrol of the experiences
connected with these placements, through the integration of them, can
transcend them and take back power (the completed and fulfilled action
of course-please see actualization).
SATURN IN-
ARIES- The fear that the identity itself is under attack:
from the environment or "others". The greatest fear is that the ego
self will not receive validation from the environment.
TAURUS- The lack of self worth manifestation, either materially or
personally are the persona's greatest fears. Dependency on material
forms as being the signature of worth.
GEMINI- The fear that the intelligence must be validated. Living by ones
wits, translates into conscious mind function as the "real" experience.
CANCER- The emotional insecurity is so great with this placement, that
the persona will have to have big accomplishments to replace the
insignificant feelings that this position reflects. The parental
structure has much to reveal.
LEO- Self extension is overdone to get attention. The ego structure is
very insecure. This reflects a belief in the invalidity of identity.
VIRGO- This placement reflects a tremendous belief in physical reality
being something outside the self, that can only be wrestled into
submission, through strict adherence to methods and procedures. The
trees are far overdone, to the point that the forest may never be seen.
LIBRA- Fear of not being accepted by others, leads to possibly being
untrue to the self-or even what the self's true position is. Natural
aggression is a must with this placement.
SCORPIO- The doom of the personal significance, is keenly felt. The
momentum of incarnations demands transformation of negative ego to
higher self experience.
SAGITTARIUS- Tremendous intellectual overcompensation, stemming from the
fear that competence is wanton. The higher self, the identity believes,
has been trampled under foot.
CAPRICORN- This is THE placement of disempowerment. The momentum of the
ego structure is so enmeshed in seeing is believing, external status
determines true worth, that it will take many contradictory aspects and
placements to change this discernment. A powerful player in the
destruction of Atlantis.
AQUARIUS- Society does not allow the individuality expression.
Overcompensation to get "the good opinion" of others. The fear of the
automatic invalidation of creative extension, if this decision is left
to others.
PISCES- The momentum of fear of this position, is fear itself. Which is
always the effect of believing in the physical self and life as all
there is to life. Introspection has been neglected, and now may be
overdone. A perspective needs to be maintained, lest self pity replace
self understanding.
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 1998 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
Astrological Consulting http://www.astroconsulting.com/
Artworks http://www.astroconsulting.com/personal/
SDSU http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~wollmann/
Michael Schaper
"E. Wollmann" wrote:
>
> Saturn's placement translates psychologically into the identity's
> greatest fears about the experience of physical reality.
No, no, NO!
God DAMN it!
Saturn's greatest fears translate psychological placement into the
physical reality's experience of the IDEN-TIT-Y.
How many times I gotta tell ya?
HAH?
SNIP!
BKaplan104
both Saturn in Aries *and* Virgo! My Sat. is in
Virgo, but in the 1st house...
SeaGtGruff
Yes, it is interesting. There are certain similarities between the influences
of Saturn in Aries and Saturn in the First House, although there are also
certain differences.
This seems to be a bit controversial among some astrologers, because for a
number of years astrologers have been correlating the First House with Aries,
the Second House with Taurus, the Third House with Gemini, the Fourth House
with Cancer, and so on. And for many more years, they have been correlating
Aries with Mars, Taurus with Venus, Gemini with Mercury, Cancer with the Moon,
and so on.
If we take this to the extreme, we get the "Zip Code"-- named after astrologer
Zipporah Dobbyns-- which says that Mars, Aries, and the First House are
interchangeable to a certain extent; that Venus, Taurus, and the Second House
are interchangeable to a certain extent; Mercury, Gemini, and the Third House
are interchangeable to a certain extent; and so on. For example, Mars in
Gemini, Mars in the Third House, Aries on the cusp of the Third House, and
Scorpio on the cusp of the Third House are supposed to be similar to each other
in certain respects. The "Zip Code" is used to condense all of the sign
positions, house positions, and signs on the house cusps into certain dominant
themes in the chart.
However, some noted astrologers have recently begun to question the practice of
correlating the signs with the houses, because they say it is a fairly recent
practice which seems to date back to perhaps the 1800s, possibly originated by
Alan Leo. They say that in the old days, the meanings of the signs and houses
were much more distinct from each other, but the practice of correlating the
signs and houses with each other has caused their meanings to become blurred
together (one might even say "polluted").
Even if we accept this correlation of signs and houses, there are astrologers
who believe quite strongly that the "Zip Code" oversimplifies the meanings of
the sign positions, house positions, and signs on the house cusps.
I do think the similarities are interesting, but I also feel that the
differences should not be ignored. Saturn in Aries isn't the same thing as
Saturn in the First House. Looking at their similarities can help us learn
their meanings more easily, but looking at their differences can help us learn
how to better distinguish between them.
To use an analogy, if you're telling someone about Tom, you might say, "Tom is
a lot like Ted" (assuming that the person is already familiar with Ted), and
this can help the person get a feel for what Tom is like. But Tom and Ted
aren't identical, so if you also say, "However, Tom is different from Ted in
that...," and describe the ways in which Tom and Ted are different, you will
help the person get a more accurate feel for what Tom is like.
Taking note of the similarities between the meanings of signs, houses, and
planets which correlate with each other can help you get a general feel for
them, and can make the job of learning their meanings quicker and easier. But
taking note of the differences between them can help you get a more accurate
understanding of them.
Michael Rideout
Edmond H.Wollmann
>
> Isn't that interesting?! I seem to characterize
> both Saturn in Aries *and* Virgo! My Sat. is in
> Virgo, but in the 1st house...
Thats because they are similar archetypes. In this solar system they are
percieved as similar because they are.
Edmond H.Wollmann
> bkapl...@aol.com wrote:
> > Isn't that interesting?! I seem to characterize both Saturn in
> > Aries *and* Virgo! My Sat. is in Virgo, but in the 1st
> > house...
> of Saturn in Aries and Saturn in the First House, although there are also
> certain differences.
Can you define these differences?
> This seems to be a bit controversial among some astrologers, because for a
> number of years astrologers have been correlating the First House with Aries,
> the Second House with Taurus, the Third House with Gemini, the Fourth House
> with Cancer, and so on. And for many more years, they have been correlating
> Aries with Mars, Taurus with Venus, Gemini with Mercury, Cancer with the Moon,
> and so on.
Yes, I have done this in my book and I have NEVER even read any
Zipporah. I did this simply from experience.
> If we take this to the extreme, we get the "Zip Code"-- named after astrologer
> Zipporah Dobbyns-- which says that Mars, Aries, and the First House are
> interchangeable to a certain extent; that Venus, Taurus, and the Second House
> are interchangeable to a certain extent; Mercury, Gemini, and the
They are, because Aries is simply the "way" we percieve that idea in
this system from our view-Mars then reflects the closest thing to that
general archetype of Aries (which I believe to be Universal where Mars
is not). Mars is then blended and becomes the Arian archetype when
integrated.
Third House
> are interchangeable to a certain extent; and so on. For example, Mars in
> Gemini, Mars in the Third House, Aries on the cusp of the Third House, and
> Scorpio on the cusp of the Third House are supposed to be similar to each other
> in certain respects. The "Zip Code" is used to condense all of the sign
> positions, house positions, and signs on the house cusps into certain dominant
> themes in the chart.
> However, some noted astrologers have recently begun to question the practice of
> correlating the signs with the houses, because they say it is a fairly recent
> practice which seems to date back to perhaps the 1800s, possibly originated by
> Alan Leo. They say that in the old days, the meanings of the signs and houses
> were much more distinct from each other, but the practice of correlating the
> signs and houses with each other has caused their meanings to become blurred
> together (one might even say "polluted").
Perhaps we have expanded our view and now realize the separation of them
was the "polluted view"? That these archetypes ARE the primal references
that Jung spoke of?
> Even if we accept this correlation of signs and houses, there are astrologers
> who believe quite strongly that the "Zip Code" oversimplifies the meanings of
> the sign positions, house positions, and signs on the house cusps.
Why is simple "bad"?
> I do think the similarities are interesting, but I also feel that the
> differences should not be ignored. Saturn in Aries isn't the same thing as
> Saturn in the First House. Looking at their similarities can help us learn
> their meanings more easily, but looking at their differences can help us learn
> how to better distinguish between them.
Then please tell me what the differences are that are NOT the effect of
the "other" details of chart delineation and can be specifically
attributed to these differences. I fail to see how anyone can see these
differences since no one is a pure type of either for us to
compare-rather, the complexity of the chart does tend to make these
distinctions difficult.
> To use an analogy, if you're telling someone about Tom, you might say, "Tom is
> a lot like Ted" (assuming that the person is already familiar with Ted), and
> this can help the person get a feel for what Tom is like. But Tom and Ted
> aren't identical, so if you also say, "However, Tom is different from
But Tom and Ted aren't identical for OTHER reasons, for the sake of
analogy, Tom and Ted are still both human and no amount of differences
from individuality can change that.
Ted in
> that...," and describe the ways in which Tom and Ted are different, you will
> help the person get a more accurate feel for what Tom is like.
But unless you can isolate these differences (which is what science
does) you can never clearly say that they are different because one is
Saturn in 1 and the other is Aries.
> Taking note of the similarities between the meanings of signs, houses, and
> planets which correlate with each other can help you get a general feel for
> them, and can make the job of learning their meanings quicker and easier.
Which is positive.
> But
> taking note of the differences between them can help you get a more accurate
> understanding of them.
Please define these differences.
I hope you don't think I am attacking, I simply do not agree and
challenge you to make your case. This is something I have thought long
and hard on.
Thanks
"Aerodynamically the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly, but the
bumblebee doesn't know that so it goes on flying anyway." Mary Kay Ash
anonym™
"Edmond H.Wollmann" wrote:
>
SNIP
>
> > But
> > taking note of the differences between them can help you get a more accurate
> > understanding of them.
>
> Please define these differences.
> I hope you don't think I am attacking,
Ed never wants you to think he's attacking, even when he's sunk his
little fangs into your ankle and begins gnawing away.
> I simply do not agree and
> challenge you to make your case.
Oh, my, how polite!
> This is something I have thought long
> and hard on.
Keep thinking.
> Thanks
You're fulsome!
>
> "Aerodynamically the bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly, but the
> bumblebee doesn't know that so it goes on flying anyway." Mary Kay Ash
Mary Kay Ash is full of shit.
HB
us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers I
know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in here....please
educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
your gibberish...holy moly....
Scary bud...really scary....
HB
HB
right....obsessive-compulsive...I sure hope you don't drink and drive...
HB
HB
nothing of what he's talking about and is a danger to most people looking
for answers to astrological questions.....I think he makes it up as he goes
along.
Saturn in Virgo are none of those things...as a matter of fact it is one of
the most responsible Saturns you can have....if you're up to the
task....that's the kicker.....Saturn is about reality and
responsibility...pure and simple...and when you put it in Virgo...it means
hard work , attention to your health....and yes service to others...some
people work very hard to be perfect with Saturn in Virgo....nothing wrong
with that...as long as you give yourself a break..right? (smile).....Saturn
is your reality test....so through your life you'll be tested on responsible
WORK...HEALTH and yes..SERVICE.
( gee Ed that was real tough) the 3 words that sum up Virgo....the word I
know better than you...cause I am one...so please educate yourself...(god
help this group from Ed pleeeez!)
Ed seems to delight in scaring people....astrology is not scary...it is
wonderful and enlightening. It's a way to open up our minds and learn more
about ourselves and those around us...
Ed doesn't seem to realize this..and easily doesn't want to help others
he just once to tell everyone in here what's wrong with them...and if I saw
his chart...I'd bet the reason he does that is because he doesn't want to
see how horrible his own life is...
Linden.. if you want to learn about astrology...try reading the book:
Secrets From A Stargazers Notebook...by Debbi Kempton-Smith.
A really good book for a novice...humorous too!
So be well...there's nothing wrong with you....I'm okay...You're okay.
Remember that.
HB
P.S. Hey Ed My Saturn in Capricorn's coming after your butt if you scare
someone else in here with that doomsday astro garbage...you really are
embarrassing to the astrological community.Again...I hope you don't charge
anyone money....you're not qualified.
ZeroZero Magazine
<arctu...@earthlink.net> writes
>VIRGO- This placement reflects a tremendous belief in physical reality
>being something outside the self, that can only be wrestled into
>submission, through strict adherence to methods and procedures. The
>trees are far overdone, to the point that the forest may never be seen.
I tried asking Ed this by Email but he never replied. What the fuck does
this bit mean. Does this mean that these people (including myself) are
so keen on believing in god/religions/*whatever* that they mess their
lives up by believing in something that cannot affect them? or what? Why
do you want to subdue a part of your personality i.e. saturn in virgo?
Linden
Edmond H.Wollmann
What is your name and where is your work so we can examine it?
Edmond H.Wollmann
>
> Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
> us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers I
> know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in here....please
So what is YOUR dribble?
> educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
> are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
> your gibberish...holy moly....
> Scary bud...really scary....
Yeah scary how amny people try arguing with me over AND OVER-all loose
and all use fake names to do so.
jfred
> HB wrote:
> >
> > Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
> > us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers I
> > know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in here....please
>
> So what is YOUR dribble?
>
> > educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
> > are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
> > your gibberish...holy moly....
>
> > Scary bud...really scary....
>
> Yeah scary how amny people try arguing with me over AND OVER-all loose
> and all use fake names to do so.
I've never seen anyone lose in a debate with you Wollmann. As soon as
you encounter rational thought, you resort to ad hominem, whining and
snipping.
--
Cahooter #14
Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey.
Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam.
HB
hummmmmm....any one who answers a question with a question is ignorant...you
evaded where your Pluto is in your chart....and I bet if you posted your
full chart.......we'd see some major developmental problems in your
psyche....so alas...I see you are nothing more than a charlatan looking to
prey on the weakness of others... the flamers in here are on to you
pal...and you lose every time.....you're a very silly person
indeed...charlatan. By the way..I'm sick of deleting the multiple Newsgroup
names when replying to your dribble....what 's up with you being a spam
hound sniffing around for crumbs of attention....poor Ed
such a misguided misfit.
HB
Edmond H.Wollmann
I see you are unable to post under your name still.
anonym™
"Edmond H.Wollmann" wrote:
>
> HB wrote:
> >
> > You're so predictable Ed...you bore me with your ignorance....ho
> > hummmmmm....any one who answers a question with a question is ignorant...you
> > evaded where your Pluto is in your chart....and I bet if you posted your
> > full chart.......we'd see some major developmental problems in your
> > psyche....so alas...I see you are nothing more than a charlatan looking to
> > prey on the weakness of others... the flamers in here are on to you
> > pal...and you lose every time.....you're a very silly person
> > indeed...charlatan. By the way..I'm sick of deleting the multiple Newsgroup
> > names when replying to your dribble....what 's up with you being a spam
> > hound sniffing around for crumbs of attention....poor Ed
> > such a misguided misfit.
> >
> > HB
>
> I see you are unable to post under your name still.
I see you are still seeking some excuse to distract yourself from the
real issues at hand.
how do you know his name isn't HB?
There's this cunt named Marsha who pops out of her hole and posts every
once in a while; how do we know she is posting under her real name?
Edmond H.Wollmann
Saturn reflects what archetypal reference that we give power outside of
ourselves to-hence typically our overcompensatory fears. On the positive
side when these fears are resolved and we OVER DO our search and
understanding of them TO compensate, we become extremely competant and
WISE experts in that field. So where opur Saturn is placed it tests our
ability to consciously perceieve these fears that may be habitually
patterned and creating negative physical manikfestations we don't
prefer. A FEAR is a BELIEF. These fears then create the thing we fear
because of our unconscious "feeding" of the fear. Please see my Saturn
Opposition Saturn: View to Reality article-I DEMONSTRATE it clearly in
that work with real clients.
Therefore, Virgo reflects the pragmatic application of analysis in
Mercurial terms to the aspects of physicality that REFINE, correct, or
PROPERLY align so that PHYSICAL world application of the self is more
efficient.
Thats the positive aspect-however, because many individuals are taught
NEGATIVE application of belief -that they are powerLESS, they believe
there are judgmentally CORRECT and proper ways to do things that are
JUDGMENTS-not discernments of this accuracy application simply for
pragmatic concerns. This turns into "correct and proper" judgments.
From that view, the Saturn in Virgo may OVERCOMPENSATE by straining at
gnats, seeing the trees and missing the forest and overCOMPLICATE with
methods, procedures and systems-and PREOCCUPY themselves with this
because they "fear they are not functionally adquate" to the task-hence
power is given to these EXTERNAL PROPS and self empowered efficency is
actually defeated because of a judgment that the details that ARE there
don't somehow "fit." An exaggerated example would be someone who was
self righteous and judgmental-bowing to the letter of laws and ignoring
the heart.
I hope this serves and would be glad to clarify if you wish.
Thanks
"When the disciple knows Saturn is as the God who offers opportunity and
does not feel him to be the deity who brings disaster, then he is on the
path of discipleship in truth and in deed and not just theoretically."
Alice Bailey, Esoteric Astrology
Edmond H.Wollmann
>
> Linden...you'd be far better off if you did not listen to Ed....
Wouldn't it be more empowered to promote what you are for instead of
maligning those you disagree with like the spinics do?
The positive path is the integral path. The only "one truth" is that THE
truth is the composite of all truths. There is no "one truth" or one
reality- if there were only one truth there would only be one person.
Look around you. All beings are all the ways that "All That Is" has of
expressing itself (these truths) within the creation that it is. It is
the disbelief in one's own power that creates negativity.
Self-Empowered- Is the recognition that you lack nothing and create your
reality 100% by what you believe and/or have been taught to believe
yourself to be. Reality is created from all levels of psychic material,
i.e., unconscious, conscious, collective unconscious, superconscious.
The physical is the EFFECT of the non-physical or spiritual experiential
template archetypally reflected through the Zodiac.
We lack nothing, we have all the tools and all the abilities that we
require at any given moment to be anything we are willing and bold
enough to believe we can define ourselves to be. We are always in
control 100% even when we use 90% to create the illusion that we have
only the other 10%. No one can make you feel inferior without your
consent. The recognition that the universe has no built-in meaning is
the unbiased and discerning view. Taking responsibility (not guilt) for
ones reality BECAUSE you know it is you and your creation, is the
self-empowered approach.
Integrity- Functioning as an integrated whole self, without placing
power outside of the self, because nothing is truly outside of the self.
Integrity consists of the recognition that we are as powerful as we need
to be to create whatever we desire to create in our reality, without
having to hurt or MALIGN ourselves or anyone else in order to create it.
We are always a part of the problem or of the solution. Our position on
the on the scale is therefore defined by action. Action is the evidence
of the convictions and beliefs held.
Because we create our reality utterly, we are not responsible FOR
anyone only responsible TO them by being as much as we can be in
integrity by following our bliss and excitement and discerning our OWN
intention. The All is vibration, and the vibration you are will BE the
reality you experience EVERYWHERE-ALL THE TIME. No matter WHAT OTHER
reality may be in existence at any given moment.
Negative beliefs do not have any more power than positive. So they are
not necessarily "unfortunate", for every being creates their reality
utterly as the product of what they believe or have been taught to
believe is true. The truth is composed of all truths within any given
system of reference or reinforcing logic.
Individuals can act in positive ways or in negative ways.
A) Positive is simply integrative, unifying, expansive,
inclusive-INTEGRAL.
B) Negative is separative, segregative, limited, conflicted functions in
PARTS.
But the positive individual, by the light by which they shine, will
simply show the negative individual(s) that they are;
A) Untouchable and unthwarted by anything that is not of a similar
vibration. And that;
B) They offer back to the negative individual(s) an offering of a
choice, a choice to also be positive. If the other(s) do not choose to
be positive then they can simply go their own way, for that which is
negative cannot exist within the blinding light of that which is
positive, it is simple mechanics-PHYSICS. Even if they are sitting next
to you. That is all. Even if the negativity is intentional the positive
person will still extract a positive effect and RESOLVE developmental
tension to harness positive benefit.
Action is the manifested evidence of conviction and belief-because life
happens through you not to you.
Or as Walt Whitman put it.
"What you are speaks so loudly, that I can't hear what you are saying."
No one can interpret a life or vibrational level at which they
themselves are not capable of functioning, because all is vibration.
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
Bashar and The Association
Eleanor Roosevelt
HB
Edmond H.Wollmann wrote in message <36598E...@worldnet.att.net>...
>
>
>I see you are unable to post under your name still.
What do you think HB is ED? Everyone calls me HB and has for years....so
what's your point? You get the gong on that one...
Next...
HB
anonym™ wrote in message >
>
>I see you are still seeking some excuse to distract yourself from the
>real issues at hand.
>
>how do you know his name isn't HB?
>
foolish charlatan
HB
the ridiculous babble I don't go any further....you preach to people like
they are objects...also...why are you spamming multiple newsgroups....I'm
tired of altering the newsgroup name so my responses don't go out to a
million people..bothering them needlessly.
You are beneath me...so go play in the sanitarium where you belong..
ciao bella
HB
HB
all Saturn in Virgo's in a state of fear....why not try seeing the positive
in life...you must be a manic depressive like Einstein....
How is it you think Virgo is so weak and fearful? You paint this sign as so
pathetic...Saturn is not just about fear....read a book educate
yourself...try it...you just might like it...
HB
Marsha
>
> "Edmond H.Wollmann" wrote:
> >
> > HB wrote:
> > >
...
> > > HB
> >
> > I see you are unable to post under your name still.
>
> I see you are still seeking some excuse to distract yourself from the
> real issues at hand.
>
> how do you know his name isn't HB?
>
> There's this cunt named Marsha who pops out of her hole and posts every
> once in a while; how do we know she is posting under her real name?
Yes, now THIS is one of the real issues at hand, isn't it? Why are you
so obssessed with what my last name is?
Your tactic of using me to distract from other issues and as a shield to
protect others from questions that may cause them discomfort is getting
quite obvious.
I'm someone who, for almost two years, has posted to this newsgroup
under the same name from the same ISP that includes the name of the city
I'm posting from in their headers.
In addition to that, you and I have a couple of mutual "friends" that
know that this is my real name.
I also have not claimed to be an astrologer as this relatively new
person has. It would be interesting to know which astrologer HB
actually is, if HB is one.
That is the issue at hand here, astrology. Although you are quite good
at making it look like calling people names and attacking certain people
is the issue.
Marsha
HB
appropriate language for the group...but I do believe in freedom of
expression....
HB
Marsha
>
> Marsha..I did not attack you.
I didn't say you did. I was replying to someone else.
> HB
anonym™
Marsha wrote:
>
> anonym™ wrote:
> >
> > "Edmond H.Wollmann" wrote:
> > >
> > > HB wrote:
>
> > > >
> ...
>
> > > > HB
> > >
> > > I see you are unable to post under your name still.
> >
> > I see you are still seeking some excuse to distract yourself from the
> > real issues at hand.
> >
> > how do you know his name isn't HB?
> >
> > There's this cunt named Marsha who pops out of her hole and posts every
> > once in a while; how do we know she is posting under her real name?
>
> Yes, now THIS is one of the real issues at hand, isn't it? Why are you
> so obssessed with what my last name is?
I'm not!
Who said I was talking about you?
Are you the only cunt named Marsha? Or do you just assume that when
people talk about a cunt popping out of her hole and not giving her
proper name you think they're talking about you?
>
> Your tactic of using me to distract from other issues and as a shield to
> protect others from questions that may cause them discomfort is getting
> quite obvious.
Huh? I'm not using you to distract from any issues; Ed made an issue of
using "real names", and I brought up an illustration of an example of
same, DIRECTLY addressing the issue.
>
> I'm someone who, for almost two years, has posted to this newsgroup
> under the same name from the same ISP that includes the name of the city
> I'm posting from in their headers.
Doesn't mean a fucking thing.
>
> In addition to that, you and I have a couple of mutual "friends" that
> know that this is my real name.
How do I know that? I domn't have any friends, or enemies for that
matter, who can vouch or prove that "Marsha" is your real name.
>
> I also have not claimed to be an astrologer as this relatively new
> person has.
But you HAVE admitted to being a weasel.
> It would be interesting to know which astrologer HB
> actually is,
Interesting, though not necessary. And if he/she, like you, chooses to
keep any further information about his/her name private, do you endorse
Ed Wollmann badgering him/her about it?
>if HB is one.
HB is the astrologer calling himself HB.
All it takes to be an astrologer is to call one's self one.
>
> That is the issue at hand here, astrology.
Which is a load of crap, and practiced by scam artists.
> Although you are quite good
> at making it look like calling people names and attacking certain people
> is the issue.
Again, you need to direct that last comment to your buddy Ed, where it
is more appropriate.
Pamela Gross
wrote:
>Ed...your Saturn must be in Scorpio with that attitude....
one hit for you there, HB
Saturn in Scorp in 4th Rx...opp the sun in 10th...
vive l'astrologie
Pam
--
Pamela Gross
be...@ix.netcom.com * http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1962
Rheumatic Disease Web Site!!! http://www.silcom.com/~sblc/
LadyNi
Marsha wrote in message <3659B953...@mindspring.com>...
...
>
>I also have not claimed to be an astrologer as this relatively new
>person has.
You can call yourself an astrologer too, Marsha. You've
demonstrated that you have just as much knowledge about
astrology as Ed or anyone else. I've always considered you
an astrologer and wonder why you don't consider yourself one.
It's fun and exhilarating!
Do it!
Call yourself an astrologer, Marsha,
and FEEL THE POWER!!
--
LadyNi P.M.A.F.A.(astrologer/toadologer/psychic)
http://www.bcpl.net/~wnidiffe/bamt/pmafa.html
Toadology Publications/Consultations
http://www.bcpl.net/~wnidiffe/bamt/tfhome.html
David Hecht
planets". This is because "astrology" is basically a twelve faceted
system which is also divided into four(elements) and
three(modalities).Therefore, the 1st house, Aries and mars, are all
going to represent the same segment of this division of 12. However, the
placements as they occur, suggest the subtle differences here. The "1st
house" is an area of activity, of being, of reality. The sign"Aries" is
a mode through which the urges of planets are carried out. "Mars" is a
planet, representing a certain "urge".
When "mars" is found in the "first house" especially in "Aries", this
urge is going to be expressing as purely as possible pending the effects
of aspects.Any other positioning of "mars" is going to bring at least
one other segment of the "division of twelve" into play. If, for
example, "mars" was located in "10" in "Aries". It would mean that the
"urge" would be working through the appropriate "mode" but not in the
normal "area". Thus, something additional would be expected of this
planets consistent with the area in which it is operating.
If "mars" was in "Capricorn" but in the "1st house", there would be a
similar but different mixing of these sectors. In the latter, the "mode"
would require the stretch that the "area" does in the first example.So,
while impulses(mars) would have to be handled in a more mature
manner(Capricorn), they would still be able to be thrown out there
according to your basic urge,i.e. in the area of personal
prerogative(1).
This is easy enough to grasp if you just go through various combinations
and consider the variations which occur, bearing in mind the basic
functional factors and allowing for the effects of aspects anywhere
along the line.
Dave
The best to everyone, now and always
HB
May 12th 1955 guy in the header in this group is he....?
HB
HB
know who May 12th 1955 is in the header in here? Any body have Edberts birth
info or is he hiding it so I can't see what a lunatic he is?
HB
Bob Officer wrote in message <3659d498...@news.vornet.com>...
>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:29:42 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
>>us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers
I
>>know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in
here....please
>>educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
>>are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
>>your gibberish...holy moly....
>
>Well said, HB, well said.
>
>This guy wants to divide the group... into them and us... when in
>truth it is really him and everyone else....
>
>
>>Scary bud...really scary....
>
>very scary
>
>
>Bob Officer
>Leader of the One Hand Clapping
>Skepticult® # 105-757897-285
>High Priest of the Church of Conic Section®
>Tyler of the Grand Order of the 'Evil' ILK
>Trainer of "Overseers" in alt.paranormal
>Official Cohooter (TM) #23
>Houndmaster, Skepticult Cancellation Hunters
>Warning! Reproduction without the writen permission
>in or on any other media than USENET NEWS GROUPS is
>prohibited.
>All claims for copyright according to the BERN and UCC
>Agreements are held by the writers. Quotes are allowed
>subject to Fair Use Rules of the above agreements.
HB
wouldn't give that horrendous chart info out....that persons a nutcase....if
that data is true...
HB
Stella wrote in message <365A0819...@pop.net.ntl.com>...
>affirmative.
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------
>Stella Hill
>Sceptic Astrologer and Official Cahooter™
>New Email address: stella.hill@net dot ntl dot com
>--------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
HB
posts....hmmm sun/pluto and sun/saturn....piece of cake...
Edmond H.Wollmann wrote in message <365A23...@worldnet.att.net>...
>HB wrote:
>>
>> Bob...I don't think Ed is human....some android of some kind...BTW.
>
>What's your name?
HB
my summation....what a group in here no?
LOL
HB
HB
HB
I just heard it was the 6-12-55...so it's okay...at least I know what we're
all dealing with...
HB
isn't worth my time...so go away and crawl under that rock with daddy....
Ta Ta....
Edmond H.Wollmann
Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
who's the kook?
HB
Edmond H.Wollmann wrote in message <365A3A...@worldnet.att.net>...
>HB wrote:
>>
>> unfortunately for the group ED..I'm the only one that does.....your chart
>> isn't worth my time...so go away and crawl under that rock with daddy....
>>
>> Ta Ta....
>
>Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
>who's the kook?
you're the king of kook Ed.....there is no astrology in this group..thanks
to you...so why bother discussing the subject....anyone can copy print out
of a book....you must really want to be an astrologer like me...how
flattering.....you'll never be one Ed...you have no talent...sound familiar?
your dad was right.....hehe your's is not the chart of anyone except a
loser....what do you expect from someone who's parents never wanted
him....oh well...such is life.....MAN OVERBOARD!!!
swim ED....hehehe
HB
HB
buddy...
HB
Bob Officer wrote in message <365a4477...@news.supernews.com>...
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:20:36 -0800, "Edmond H.Wollmann"
><Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>HB wrote:
>>>
>>> Linden...you'd be far better off if you did not listen to Ed....
>
>> We lack nothing, we have all the tools and all the abilities that we
>>require at any given moment to be anything we are willing and bold
>>enough to believe we can define ourselves to be. We are always in
>>control 100% even when we use 90% to create the illusion that we have
>>only the other 10%. No one can make you feel inferior without your
>>consent. The recognition that the universe has no built-in meaning is
>>the unbiased and discerning view. Taking responsibility (not guilt) for
>>ones reality BECAUSE you know it is you and your creation, is the
>>self-empowered approach.
>
>IS this how you call yourself a counselor without any credentials?
>
>>Integrity- Functioning as an integrated whole self, without placing
>>power outside of the self, because nothing is truly outside of the self.
>
>
>integrity... does the words honest, trustworthy, sincere, caring
>belong in any diffinition of that word...
>
>Eddy lives in a self constructed reality... and remember we really
>don't exsist, Eddy created us all.
>
>> Because we create our reality utterly, we are not responsible FOR
>>anyone only responsible TO them by being as much as we can be in
>>integrity by following our bliss and excitement and discerning our OWN
>>intention. The All is vibration, and the vibration you are will BE the
>>reality you experience EVERYWHERE-ALL THE TIME. No matter WHAT OTHER
>>reality may be in existence at any given moment.
>
>See!
>
>>believe is true. The truth is composed of all truths within any given
>>system of reference or reinforcing logic.
>
>
>if the "truth" is lie then it is still the truth?
>
>> Individuals can act in positive ways or in negative ways.
>>
>>Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
>>Bashar and The Association
>>Eleanor Roosevelt
>
>
>MPD again?
Rick
> Bob...I don't think Ed is human....some android of some kind...
I thought he was an undergraduate AI project. Well, maybe an AS
project.
Rick
Edmond H.Wollmann <Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>:-)))) You have no clue.
Like you'd know a clue if it bit you.
Rick
Edmond H.Wollmann <Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
>who's the kook?
You are, Edie. We're just laught *AT* you. And the more you squirm the
more you are laughed at.
Bob Officer
wrote:
>Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
>us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers I
>know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in here....please
>educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
>are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
>your gibberish...holy moly....
Well said, HB, well said.
This guy wants to divide the group... into them and us... when in
truth it is really him and everyone else....
>Scary bud...really scary....
very scary
Bob Officer
<Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>HB wrote:
>>
>> Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
>> us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers I
>> know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in here....please
>
>So what is YOUR dribble?
Maybe he doesn't have any..
I didn't see long quotes of songs.
I didn't see out of context quotes from scientists.
I did see quotes from bashar.
>> educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
>> are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
>> your gibberish...holy moly....
>
>> Scary bud...really scary....
>
>Yeah scary how amny people try arguing with me over AND OVER-all loose
>and all use fake names to do so.
Eddy is that "-" supose to be a period?
I don't see lots of fake names... I see intials and screen names.
at least most of those names have valid addresses with them.
So far, no one has lost a debate with you... you usually "Snip" and
protest when you start loosing.
Stella
Edmond H.Wollmann
>
> Bob...I don't think Ed is human....some android of some kind...BTW.
What's your name?
Bob Officer
wrote:
> Bob...I don't think Ed is human....some android of some kind...BTW..do you
>know who May 12th 1955 is in the header in here? Any body have Edberts birth
>info or is he hiding it so I can't see what a lunatic he is?
>
HB,
I don't have a clue. I was given about three charts to do for
practice, while on IRC. You know stimulate the old memory paths. :)
I was asked some specific questions about each. I posted the answers
the those 3 questions about three specific aspects on this persons
chart.
My personal opinion about this person is rather difficlut to put into
words. If this is a real person, I would advise him to seek a life of
contenplation, and humbled "sevice to mankind". Such as a monk or
cleric where he has limited contact with the real world. This type of
lifestule would be the least disturbing to his psyche.
>
>
>Bob Officer wrote in message <3659d498...@news.vornet.com>...
>>On Sun, 22 Nov 1998 16:29:42 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Ed...I'd really appreciate it if you stopped using "THEY" referring to
>>>us....like you're speaking for ALL astrologers....Not I or any astrologers
>I
>>>know would agree with any of the dribble you are spouting in
>here....please
>>>educate yourself...a little knowledge is a dangerous thing( and indeed you
>>>are very dangerous at this point) and I hope you don't accept money for
>>>your gibberish...holy moly....
>>
>>Well said, HB, well said.
>>
>>This guy wants to divide the group... into them and us... when in
>>truth it is really him and everyone else....
>>
>>
>>>Scary bud...really scary....
>>
>>very scary
be afraid, very afraid!
Pamela Gross
wrote:
>Pam...how do you know where Ed's planets are.... he's not coincidentally the
>May 12th 1955 guy in the header in this group is he....?
>
>HB
>
This I cannot say...I'm sure you understand...
Edmond H.Wollmann
:-)))) You have no clue.
Bob Officer
wrote:
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:17:03 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Ed...your Saturn must be in Scorpio with that attitude....
>
>one hit for you there, HB
>
>Saturn in Scorp in 4th Rx...opp the sun in 10th...
Pam
What do you know,
The mystery chart has Sat Rx in Sco and the 4th. That is one aweful
chart with pitfalls and personalitiy traps abound.
Bob Officer
<Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
See!
MPD again?
Pamela Gross
>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 22:30:40 GMT, be...@ix.netcom.com (Pamela Gross)
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:17:03 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Ed...your Saturn must be in Scorpio with that attitude....
>>
>>one hit for you there, HB
>>
>>Saturn in Scorp in 4th Rx...opp the sun in 10th...
>
>Pam
>What do you know,
>The mystery chart has Sat Rx in Sco and the 4th. That is one aweful
>chart with pitfalls and personalitiy traps abound.
>
>
>Bob Officer
Bob...amazing coincidence...
Tom Kerr
>HB wrote:
>>
>> Bob...I don't think Ed is human....some android of some kind...BTW.
>
>What's your name?
Ed, just what is it with you and this sudden obsession with wanting to know
people's names?
This seems to be a rather disturbing change in your behaviour. Are you
compiling some sort of hate list or something?
And just who are you to ask about people's names? What about
zeus1...@aol.com, hoov...@aol.com and als...@pacbell.net to name just a
few of your sock puppets?
http://www.sidaway.demon.co.uk/skeptic/sockpuppets.txt
Is this something to do with your Neptune (illusion/deception) in your 3rd
house (communcations)? Does this help explain your use of sock puppets on
usenet?
Do you have a problem dealing with your Neptune?
ZeroZero Magazine
<Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>Saturn reflects what archetypal reference that we give power outside of
>ourselves to-hence typically our overcompensatory fears.
OK, this sort of fits with my defenition of Saturn as a planet which
represents rules, boundaries, authority figures (father?). You are
saying that Saturn represents more of a *perceived* set of these
characteristics than actual reality? In effect we create our own set of
boundaries? Following this through would make us fear something which in
some cases does not exist, right?
>Therefore, Virgo reflects the pragmatic application of analysis in
>Mercurial terms to the aspects of physicality that REFINE, correct, or
>PROPERLY align so that PHYSICAL world application of the self is more
>efficient.
So you are saying that a Saturn in Virgo will make an individual dwell
on these perceived limitations? They may well make a mountain out of a
molehill by analysing these saturnian influences.
I would say that Virgo in Saturn has advantages as well in that case. It
would mean that you can reduce these Saturnian perceptions because virgo
represents analytical, critical and discriminatory thought.
A virgo with a strong mars or jupiter (correct me if I am wrong) would
be able to overcome these Saturn in Virgo perceptions of limitations,
because the individual has analysed and been critical of the fears which
the individual has dwelt upon.
So, does saturn represent the boundaries/limitations (etc) of the
reality which we live in, or does it represent only perceived
limitations (etc)? On the other hand, does it represent perceived
limitations which inevitably leads to us creating these limitations in
our actual lives?
>I hope this serves and would be glad to clarify if you wish.
Erm, I've reduced the number of newsgroups this goes out to...
Cheers,
Linden
Bob Officer
wrote:
>Bob...a little birdie told me it is Ed's chart....diabolically delusional is
>my summation....what a group in here no?
Some of "us" are content to study, discuss, and understand,
Some of "us" will take astrology as an art,
Some of "us" will take it as a faulty science.
Some of "us" look at it as a simple tool to open doors of
understanding, building brigdes.
Some of "us" will use it just to have something to discuss, and in
discussing find a common thread that ties all of our lives to each
other.
>LOL
The delusions are not "funny" haha! It is his quirks are funny...
HB
jfred
> HB wrote:
> >
> > unfortunately for the group ED..I'm the only one that does.....your chart
> > isn't worth my time...so go away and crawl under that rock with daddy....
> >
> > Ta Ta....
>
> Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
> who's the kook?
Edmond H. Wollmann.
--
Cahooter #14
Everybody's got something to hide except for me and my monkey.
Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam.
Edmond Wollmann
the same spam messages that he has posted for almost two years now.
Thanks
Your client continues to post in violation of the
alt.astrology.metapsych charter. Please take action or ask that they
adjust the header properly.
Thanks
http://www.astroconsulting.com/FAQs/charter.htm
Path:
newshub.sdsu.edu!news1.best.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!la-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!no.spam!not-for-mail
From:
el...@no.spam (Rick)
Newsgroups:
alt.astrology.metapsych, alt.astrology,
alt.usenet.kooks
Subject:
Re: Saturn Signs
Date:
23 Nov 1998 21:33:32 -0800
X-ELN-Insert-Date:
Mon Nov 23 21:45:01 1998
References:
<3650F5...@earthlink.net>
<365A32...@worldnet.att.net> <u9Se2N2F#GA.221@upnetnews05>
<365A3A...@worldnet.att.net>
Organization:
S.P.C.A.A.
X-Posted-Path-Was:
no.spam!not-for-mail
Lines:
9
NNTP-Posting-Host:
pool022-max7.ds17-ca-us.dialup.earthlink.net
X-ELN-Date:
24 Nov 1998 05:35:39 GMT
Message-ID:
<73dgfc$m8$1...@ellis.no.spam>
Rick wrote:
>
> In article <365A3A...@worldnet.att.net>,
> Edmond H.Wollmann <Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
> >who's the kook?
>
> You are, Edie. We're just laught *AT* you. And the more you squirm the
> more you are laughed at.
--
anonym™
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> Metapsych replaced with NANAU.
Bullshit replaced with humor.
> Please ask this client to cease posting
> the same spam messages that he has posted for almost two years now.
Please post your evidence that he has ever posted 20 identical messages
within a 45 day period the way you have, you fucking spammer.
I will review it and give you my decision promptly.
> Thanks
>
> Your client continues to post in violation of the
> alt.astrology.metapsych charter.
Not the NEW one, asshole!
> Please take action or ask that they
> adjust the header properly.
It IS proper!
Lili gonna cum visit fer Turkey day?
Is that what's got BronZodiacHandler all worked up?
> Thanks
>
> http://www.astrocons
SNIP!
Here, we have updated charters for certain newsgroups on Usenet.
The charters that were sent with the original control message upon
creation were unworkable and overly restrictive, especially in light
of their status as unmoderated alt.newsgroups. The previous rules
could only be policed by a moderator, and in the abscence of an official
moderator, soon became onerous and unenforceable. Because there
are many negative and censorious persons ("wannabe moderators")
who are bigoted against free speech, and who abuse and corrupt the
charter by insisting that others follow it (and making dramatic, false,
and harmful complaints to service providers), all while violating the
charter themselves, updating and modifying the language of this charter
was necessary.The resultant changes provide for a freer, more mature,
and balanced forum of discussion, and still restrict the topic,while
maintaining a more workable, enforceable, and less easily misused and
corrupted set of rules.Indeed, periodic updating of the charter is seen
as
a healthy way to grow a vibrant, relevant, and usable newsgroup.
This updated charter supersedes the original and has the blessings of
usenet news and policy administrators and experts and is made official
by announcement in the appropriate control, bulletin, and config groups
and storage at ftp.uu.net, ftp.isc.org, and the website at:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/9009/
Usenet posters insistent on control issues concerning this topic are free
to create an alt.astrology.metapsych.moderated group and may post there.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
alt.astrology.metapsych
Created: November 24, 1996, 2:05 am, California, USA
Superseding Charter version 1.1 modified September 6, 1998, 2:10
a.m., California, USA
This unmoderated newsgroup was proposed and created for
discussion of the psychological/metaphysical/spiritual aspects of
astrology and its applications.
For your newsgroups file:
alt.astrology.metapsych Discussion of astrology
metaphysically/psychologically/skeptically/spiritually.
=========Charter for alt.astrology.metapsych=========
Charter: This group is for astrologers and students and critics of
astrology or
practicing therapists and psychologists to discuss aspects of astrology
primarily-but not limited to psychological/metaphysical/spiritual
approaches of counsel and practice. This includes;
1) Personal analysis of horoscopes based on full data and information.
2) Psychological approaches and remediation methods in counsel.
3) Psychological fields of approach.
4) Metaphysical and/or spiritual approaches and their connections.
5) Humanistic, holistic or other modern or otherwise defined as new age
approaches.
6) The testability and validity of astrological and psychological systems
Since this group is proposed on the basis of ethical and respectable
service oriented counsel and astrological application and
discussion,
the following classes of posts are not welcome;
1) Advertisements of any sort .
2) JPEG's, GIF's, Animations, ASCII art, or other still, or motion
based images.
3) Posting of notice of complaints of off-topicness simply because
of disagreement.
4) Those containing URL's to commercial websites.
5) Posts containing more than five discussion groups in their to:
headers
6) Posts following up to more than five crosspostings in their
followup to: headers
7) Posts containing follow-ups set only to sender.
8) Posts containing follow-ups set only outside of this newsgroup.
9) Canned screeds or boilerplate copy cannot be posted more than
once every six months.
There are no restrictions regarding methods, systems, criticisms, or philosophies
regarding application techniques. All astrological applications are
welcome and/or services employing such as a part of their service.
Skeptical posts and posts containing discussion of testing and
validity of
astrological, psychological, and metaphysical methods are welcome.
Only by discarding the unworkable and revising theories to contain
what "works" can science
succeed. As astrology is an art/science it must adhere to the rigors
of the scientific method.
Innovative techniques and the integration of related cross disciplines
to the subject matter are also welcome. Flame wars and disagreements
are a natural
consequence of this type of combination of unmoderated, free-speech
protected
electronic medium, and it is acknowleged that no newsgroup will ever
be completely flame-free.
Flame wars which spill over into private email, however, are
discouraged and alt.astrology.metapsych
posters are asked to use maturity and good judgement in these matters.
Now.
Did you have more kookfarts to flatulate?
Bob Officer
wrote:
>well put Bob....very well put...
I won't name names, but I have been surpirsed to see a number of
"spinics" asking questions in a non-inflamitory manor. and discussing
astrology with bring up the mention of validity.
All on #catch-22 on IRC.
It is amazing!
Bob Officer
>In article <365A23...@worldnet.att.net>, Pleia...@worldnet.att.net wrote:
>>What's your name?
>
>Ed, just what is it with you and this sudden obsession with wanting to know
>people's names?
>
>This seems to be a rather disturbing change in your behaviour. Are you
>compiling some sort of hate list or something?
He has gone from god complex to santa claus?
I he checks it twice, I am buying coal futures.
>Do you have a problem dealing with your Neptune?
I don't think there is a planetary aspect which he doesn't have
problems.
Bob Officer
<Zero...@pcworks.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <3659A7...@worldnet.att.net>, Edmond H.Wollmann
><Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>
>>Saturn reflects what archetypal reference that we give power outside of
>>ourselves to-hence typically our overcompensatory fears.
LOL... fear? There is nothing to fear but fear, itself. Words for
with which most Virgo types have learned to live.
>OK, this sort of fits with my defenition of Saturn as a planet which
>represents rules, boundaries, authority figures (father?). You are
>saying that Saturn represents more of a *perceived* set of these
>characteristics than actual reality? In effect we create our own set of
>boundaries? Following this through would make us fear something which in
>some cases does not exist, right?
>>Therefore, Virgo reflects the pragmatic application of analysis in
>>Mercurial terms to the aspects of physicality that REFINE, correct, or
>>PROPERLY align so that PHYSICAL world application of the self is more
>>efficient.
>
>So you are saying that a Saturn in Virgo will make an individual dwell
>on these perceived limitations? They may well make a mountain out of a
>molehill by analysing these saturnian influences.
>
>I would say that Virgo in Saturn has advantages as well in that case. It
>would mean that you can reduce these Saturnian perceptions because virgo
>represents analytical, critical and discriminatory thought.
>
>A virgo with a strong mars or jupiter (correct me if I am wrong) would
>be able to overcome these Saturn in Virgo perceptions of limitations,
>because the individual has analysed and been critical of the fears which
>the individual has dwelt upon.
As a Virgo with Saturn elsewhere in my chart, have found fears are
easy to overcome once you prepare for the future. While there are
always doubts about not being ready, most Virgos, can use to use all
the tools present to make do, finish the job, and move one to the next
project.
>So, does saturn represent the boundaries/limitations (etc) of the
>reality which we live in, or does it represent only perceived
>limitations (etc)? On the other hand, does it represent perceived
>limitations which inevitably leads to us creating these limitations in
>our actual lives?
Most virgos are self starters, and self teachers! limitations are for
others. Can't isn't in favoritein the Virgo's vocabulary.
>>I hope this serves and would be glad to clarify if you wish.
>Erm, I've reduced the number of newsgroups this goes out to...
I reduced it, too.
>Linden
If you want a great place to discuss astrology. open and free flowing
try alt.astrology.moderated
If you want a great place to visit, and discuss all sort of things,
including astrology, visit IRC, undernet, and #catch-22
AGroovyKat
>Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
>who's the kook?
Sheer entertainment, Edmond.
YOU are the kOOk.
YOU are kOOkY!
Sheer entertainment.
--
AGroovyKat (remove purrrrrr to Email)
Scorpio Rising Club
Official Cahooters(TM) #9
IRC, #catch-22 & #pams_friends Undernet
"Once in a while you get shown the light,
In the strangest of places if you look at it right."
HB
HB
HB
AGroovyKat wrote in message
<19981125001324...@ng-cf1.aol.com>...
>"Edmond H.Wollmann" <Pleia...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>Obviously *I* am worth everyones time, or they wouldn't spend it-now
>>who's the kook?
>
>Sheer entertainment, Edmond.
LOL!!!! That's all the charlatan is....a punching bag in romper
room....entertainment...
HB
>
>
>>
>--
>
HB
Bob Officer wrote in message <
>
>with which most Virgo types have learned to live.
>
>>
>Most virgos are self starters, and self teachers! limitations are for
>others. Can't isn't in favoritein the Virgo's vocabulary.
>
>
>
>
>Bob.....who's the Virgo...you or Linden?
HB
Keera A. Fox
> On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:14:38 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
> wrote:
>
> >well put Bob....very well put...
>
> I won't name names, but I have been surpirsed to see a number of
> "spinics" asking questions in a non-inflamitory manor. and discussing
> astrology with bring up the mention of validity.
>
> All on #catch-22 on IRC.
> It is amazing!
>
And it's fun! We all treat each other nicely, even when we bring out the
trout. ;-)
--
****** Keera in Norway ******
* Think big. Shrink to fit. *
****** ka...@online.no ******
HB
with words...<G>
HB
Keera A. Fox wrote in message
<1dj2cz2.5gk...@ti21a26-0048.dialup.online.no>...
HB
You are the virgo...you gave it away with.." let's look at this logically.."
LOL
HB
Bob Officer wrote in message <365cd3d6....@news.supernews.com>...
>On Wed, 25 Nov 1998 09:05:21 -0700, "HB" <moo...@email.msn.com>
>wrote:
>Let's look at this logically
>
>Bob is a Virgo, Linden is not a Vigro
>Bob is Not a Virgo, Linden is a Virgo
>Bob is Not a Virgo , Linden is not a Virgo
>Bob Is a Virgo , Linden is a Virgo
>or
>Bob has strong Virgo planets
>or
>Linden has strong Virgo planets
>or
>Some combination along those lines..
Bob Officer
ZeroZero Magazine
writes
>Bob...that was spoken like a Gemini..LOL...hehehe
>You are the virgo...you gave it away with.." let's look at this logically.."
>LOL
BTW I am also virgo with three other planets in virgo as well...
HB
HB
ZeroZero Magazine wrote in message ...
Bob Officer
wrote:
>Bob...that was spoken like a Gemini..LOL...hehehe
>You are the virgo...you gave it away with.." let's look at this logically.."
>LOL
But Ed says I don't use logic... and he is the "authority...
now the question what is Linden?
>Bob Officer wrote in message <365cd3d6....@news.supernews.com>...
HB
HB
Bob Officer wrote in message <365d02b2....@news.supernews.com>...
Jakob Marschner
Saturn???
HB
this particular NG...try it....you just might like it....
HB
Jakob Marschner wrote in message ...