Carl Jung and Mandalas
EWollmann
The Horoscope is a Mandala. It is divided into polarities os masculine and
feminine, as well as the four temperament types found in the Kiersey
temperament sorter and Jung's four psychological functions in psychology.
These are related to the four Cardinal points, the elements and the persona
creation through belief, emotion, and thought.
According to Carl Jung each individual has a masculine and feminine side.
Masculine, positive or active being animus and feminine, negative or
passive being the anima. The successful integration of these aspects within
each individual allows for the defensive aspects of personality to be
virtually non- existent, and dis-ease all but eliminated. Biologically,
this concept corresponds to the active and passive transport of nutrients
and chemicals in a cell.
Jung took Astrology seriously and regarded it as fundamental, and
representative of his ideas with regard to the Mandala.
"Originally he regarded astrology as a function of
time...but must be understood as a "stream of energy filled with
qualities,"so that the time quality peculiar to that moment of a man's
birth also attaches to his character and possibly to his fate as well.
The old astrological stellar myths are expressions of these
intuitively grasped time qualities. They are archetypal images, involuntary
creations of the "knowing unconscious," which primitive man
projected upon the stars. Jung wrote in a letter in (June 1960):
'"We must bear in mind that we do not make projections, rather
they happen to us. This fact permits the conclusion that we originally read
our first physical, and particularly psychological, insights in the stars.
In other words, what is farthest is actually nearest. Somehow, as the
Gnostics surmised, we have "collected" ourselves from out of the cosmos."'
The Mandala is almost always a circular shape (which symbolizes the soul
or whole self, that contains designs, and is often divided into four parts.
The horoscope, although a mathematical representation of celestial
positioning, is also a Mandala, and therefore requires an Art/Science
approach to delineation.
"Jung's conception of personality is complex...His observations
often dwelled on the multiple, contradictory forces in life: 'I see in all
that happens the play of opposites' (1963, p. 235). Yet he was also one of
the first to conceptualize a self that actively strives for oneness and
unity. Jung saw the self (the striving for wholeness) as an archetype that
is expressed in many ways. The expressions of the striving for wholeness
include the Mandala (a magic circle archetype) and various religious and
transcendental experiences. He devoted much of his life to the study of
these expressions in primitive societies, alchemy, mythology, dreams, and
symbols. To achieve unity and wholeness, the individual must become
increasingly aware of the wisdom available in his or her personal and
collective unconscious and must learn to live in harmony with it..."
Mandala....Well, it is just one typical archetypal form. It is
what is called ultimo exquadra circulae, the square in the circle, or the
circle in the square. It is an age-old symbol that goes right back to the
pre-history of man. It is all over the Earth and it either expresses the
Deity or the self; and these two terms are psychologically very much
related, which doesn't mean that I believe that God is the self or that the
self is the God. I made the statement that there is a psychological
relation, and there is plenty of evidence for that." "It is, we should say,
the main archetype."
"Introduction to Personality" chapter 3 "Ego Psychology and Object
Relations"p 69, Walter Mischel, Columbia University, Harcourt-Brace, 1993.
Question from Dr. Evans;
Dr. Jung, there has been much discussion about how certain
experiences in the early years influence the formation of the ego. For
example, one of the most extreme views concerning such early influences was
advanced by Otto Rank. He spoke of the birth trauma and suggested that the
trauma of being born would not only leave a very powerful impact on the
developing ego, but would have a residual influence throughout the life of
the individual.
Dr. Jung;
I should say that it is very important for an ego that it is born;
this is highly traumatic, you know, when you fall out of heaven.
"Mythology is a pronouncing of a series of images that formulate
the life of archetypes."
"If somebody is clever enough to see what is going on in people's
minds, in their unconscious minds, he will be able to predict."
"Conversations with Carl Jung", Richard I. Evans, Van Nostrand, 1964.
Regarding Alfred Adler
"When people make very positive statements about themselves in our
presence, they make us look bad by comparison. Dismissing braggart's
exaggerated claims and assuming they are just trying to cover up their
inadequacies would seem to save us from feeling inferior relative to them."
"Personality Theories", Chapter 4, page 85, 1994, Allyn and Bacon.
In regard to "hardiness and alienation" (Leak & Williams, 1989b).
Hardiness consisted of 3 factors: commitment, challenge and control.
"Commitment involves an active approach to coping with life's
challenges...because of a sense of courage and psychological tolerance" (pg
370). "Challenge entails a perception that novel events and changing
circumstances offer an opportunity for development (pg 370).. (the
developmental aspects in the horoscope). Control "refers to a belief in
personal, internal control over the events in ones life" (370)..(the belief
in self empowerment and reality creation).
Adlerians (Aquarian oriented counselors) are more likely to view people in
terms of wishes, expectations, goals, convictions and mistaken perceptions,
not in terms of needs conflicts, drives and pleasure.
The primary question in relation to patients is "What purpose does the
symptom serve?" not "What caused the symptom?" The therapists interest is
forward looking not backward looking.
"The style of life is an original, psychological orientation that contains
the individual's relatively permanant LAW OF MOVEMENT (or Noel Tyl's law of
naturalness or my law of momentum flow), the direction taken (the
horoscopic vibrational frequency) by the person that originates in his or
her ability to exercise free choice in fully exploiting personal
capabilities and rescources (Adler 1933a). "Personality Theories", Chapter
4, page 82, 1994, Allyn and Bacon.
Psychology, therefore is simply the recognition of the resulting behavior
of the identity's integration and developmental tension in the resolution
of the levels of psychic material of the self, and is reflected
synchronistically through the horoscope a basic archetypal mandala.
Synchronicity is correlation-not causation.
Astrology/psychology and physics are all one thing. Consciousness creates
matter and relects it through the mind/matter mirror of physicality.
Personality construct="This will be the tool that you consider your
personality or the person to be. The personality not being who or what you
are, but an artificial tool, so to speak, of the higher consciousness, of
the oversoul, that serves the purpose of being, I'll say, the
representitive symbol that the oversoul uses to interact with physical
reality, or interact as the idea of physical reality. It is the diplomat or
representitive of the soul in physical reality." "The New Metaphysics"
Bashar page 20, definitions, 1987.
Edmond H. Wollmann
http://home.aol.com/ewollmann
ITZ42069
Wollmann wrote:
>The Horoscope is a Mandala. It is divided into polarities os masculine and
>feminine, as well as the four temperament types found in the Kiersey
>temperament sorter and Jung's four psychological functions in psychology.
>These are related to the four Cardinal points, the elements and
>the persona
>creation through belief, emotion, and thought.
I've studied Jung's work for a long time, as well as astrology, and have
run into problems connecting his typology to astrology at times. For
instance, Air obviously connects to the Thinking type. Sometimes you can
match a person's typology pretty well to their chart and sometimes not.
For instance, I know a woman who tests out as Thinking for superior
function, yet she doesn't have a single planet or asc or mc or nodes in
air signs. One problem is that the Meyers-Briggs test isn't infallible in
that a person's complexes can make them wish to be something they're not,
and therefore the choices of answers on the test don't really reflect their
personality. In other words, they choose answers on the test that reflect
how they wish they responded to the world, rather than how they really respond.
My other thought has been that obviously Astrology itself is a typology
system of sorts, and just much more sophisticated, with many more variables
than Jung's typology system. Though, I know he studied and used astrology
extensively, and it must have influenced his work around his typology
system. This is most evident in the elements of earth, fire, air and
water, which he understood symbolically very well from astrology and alchemy
Would you explain what you meant by the Cardinal points reflecting or
relating to Jung's typology system, and any other reflection you have on
this? In fact, I would appreciate hearing anyone's reflection around this
topic.
Thanks, Charon
EWollmann
>From: itz4...@aol.com (ITZ42069)
>Date: 10 Sep 1997 20:43:34 GMT
>Message-id: <19970910204...@ladder01.news.aol.com>
>
>Wollmann wrote:
>
>>The Horoscope is a Mandala. It is divided into polarities os masculine and
>>feminine, as well as the four temperament types found in the Kiersey
>>temperament sorter and Jung's four psychological functions in psychology.
>>These are related to the four Cardinal points, the elements and
>>the persona
>>creation through belief, emotion, and thought.
>I've studied Jung's work for a long time, as well as astrology, and have
>run into problems connecting his typology to astrology at times. For
>instance, Air obviously connects to the Thinking type. Sometimes you can
>match a person's typology pretty well to their chart and sometimes not.
>For instance, I know a woman who tests out as Thinking for superior
>function, yet she doesn't have a single planet or asc or mc or nodes in
>air signs.
Well typically (Merv Griffin is a good example) no air overcompensates
mentally, so this is no surprise. It is a whole different thing when there
is no representation of an Element.
> One problem is that the Meyers-Briggs test isn't infallible in
>that a person's complexes can make them wish to be something they're not,
Nothing is infallible.
>and therefore the choices of answers on the test don't really reflect their
>personality. In other words, they choose answers on the test that reflect
>how they wish they responded to the world, rather than how they really
>respond.
Which still tells us much.
>My other thought has been that obviously Astrology itself is a typology
>system of sorts, and just much more sophisticated, with many more variables
>than Jung's typology system. Though, I know he studied and used astrology
>extensively, and it must have influenced his work around his typology
>system. This is most evident in the elements of earth, fire, air and
>water, which he understood symbolically very well from astrology and alchemy
They are the four Cardinal points and they are well represented on every
poulation in every corner of Earth since BCE. They are reflected in the
four nucleotide bases in DNA the base of the pyramid and the four forces in
particle physics.
>Would you explain what you meant by the Cardinal points reflecting or
>relating to Jung's typology system, and any other reflection you have on
>this?
The native American Hopi referred to them as colors; Blue, white yellow,
red. There are many references to this idea, you have to study some of the
cultures and observe. Even in old bible art I believe it is in the 700's
the four symbols of the Lion, the bull the water bearer and the eagle.
Observe it next time you go to a museum. A good reference for this is
Joseph Campbell in the Power of The Myth or Myths to Live By.
> In fact, I would appreciate hearing anyone's reflection around this
>topic.
The Natural Zodiac is a Universal Experiential and Physicality Template.
I believe this is the reason for the glorification of the pyramidal
structure (the externalized portion of the octahedron) both in Egypt and
Central America by the Mayan civilization (as well as being listed on our
own currency). Symbolic information handed down from the same civilization
that used to exist somewhere in the location of the Bermuda rise, Atlantis.
Upon destruction of the island some of the survivors went east to Egypt and
some went west to end up in Central America, the archaeological
similarities between these two cultures is amazing. This symbol is
representative of the recognition of the structure involved in physical
manifestation-a universal premise. When we place man and his awareness at
center we have the mystical significance of the number 5. It is reflected
in the physiological fact that man has the development of the fifth digit
of the hand, the thumb. His creative prowess and will over the four
dimensions template and of the heart and its location in the body.
The universal concept of the four dimensions is also reflected in the
biological process of cell division called mitosis. Cells reflect the
polarity of the masculine and feminine forces that are always required for
completeness. Peptide bonds are polar and proteins have a primary (linear
sequence of amino acids), secondary (helix), tertiary (3-d shape) and
quaternary (2 or more linked polypeptides) again reflecting the template.
It has also begun to be recognized that cosmic rays (and x- rays) are
involved with the effects on chromosomal mutation (a radical change from
previously existing qualities or patterns) especially in albinism. These
ideas reinforce and corroborate the microcosmic and macrocosmic
reflectivity. It appears, as above, so below is a physical and universal
mechanism, not just a metaphor. The universal premise is always reveled as
the base of 4 expressed in modes of 3.
The ancient Chinese and other civilizations also had the recognitions of
the premise of the sexagenary period (a "cycle of cathay") obtained by
combining two by two the twelve (the multiple of 4/3) earthly branches or
signs of the zodiac (shih erh ti chih) with the ten heavenly stems or
planets (shih tien kan). All examples of duality were expressed in yin and
yang. These yin and yang lines when combined form the possibility of 64
hexagrams which is precisely the effect of the 20 known amino acids with
their three letter codes which combine in 64 ways. The ancient Sumerians
also used the sexagesimal systems and it is no coincidence that they were
based on the number 60, it is the base for the 120 degree triangle. The
Babylonians were also responsible for the cuneiform languages and the
division of the circle by 360 degrees that we use to this day. The seven
day week is also their invention. The numerical pattern in Revelation the
apocalypse of John, follows the same 3, 4, 7, 10, 12 patterns.
>Thanks, Charon
Thanks
Ed
--
The rise of the Natural Sciences and with it of rationalism in the 18th
Century were responsible for the contemptible treatment and defamation of
theses ancients arts which could pride themselves on a thousand years of
history, and this led to the rejection of everything which on the one hand
defied a reasonable explanation and verification by experiment or, on the
other, made too exclusive a claim on intuition.
Carl Jung.
maberry
Hi, interesting. With regard to EW's comment above on bible art and the
symbols of the four signs/four evangelists -- one of my teachers (credit
where credit is due: Jim Cummins) clued me in to these symbols going
even farther back than the recent Christian era, and he suggested I read
Manly Palmer Hall (who is a truly excellent author). If one studies
art, you can see the symbols going way back to antiquity, including the
Sphinx: head of a man (Aq)/paws of a lion (Leo)/body of bull (Tau)/wings
of eagle (scorp). Look at the symbolism of Virgo/Pisces in light of
Christianity with its references to the saviour/the virgin; the wine and
the bread. Then look further back to the era before that and consider
the Jewish religion before Christ with its Aries/Libra references. In
art history classes we see old drawings and statues of Moses with horns
on his head (!!!!) What on earth could this mean??? No one in art
class ever had an answer for it, but if one considers the precession of
the equinoxes, Moses' era was the era of Aries/Libra -- no wonder he had
horns. No wonder "the law" was so prominent in Jewish religion. Going
back before this, there is the cult of the minotaur (Taurus) and in
South America the feathered serpent, and in Asia the seven headed
serpent (Scorpio).
Food for thought. Especially when we think ahead to what the age of
Aquarius/Leo will mean -- and look around for symbols that are starting
to manifest.
*****
peace,
maberry.
Edmond Wollmann
maberry wrote:
I wish you would quote what I wrote, especially since we have Rick Ellis
canceling and diverting all my posts from being archived.
> Hi, interesting. With regard to EW's comment above on bible art and the
> symbols of the four signs/four evangelists -- one of my teachers (credit
> where credit is due: Jim Cummins) clued me in to these symbols going
> even farther back than the recent Christian era, and he suggested I read
> Manly Palmer Hall (who is a truly excellent author). If one studies
> art, you can see the symbols going way back to antiquity, including
Well acually I meant back to the period of the Merovingians and
Carolingians in 700s in Germanic areas.
the
> Sphinx: head of a man (Aq)/paws of a lion (Leo)/body of bull (Tau)/wings
> of eagle (scorp).
But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
a head of a Lion originally.
> Look at the symbolism of Virgo/Pisces in light of
> Christianity with its references to the saviour/the virgin; the wine and
> the bread. Then look further back to the era before that and consider
> the Jewish religion before Christ with its Aries/Libra references. In
> art history classes we see old drawings and statues of Moses with horns
> on his head (!!!!)
Yes it corresponds nicely to the ages, Moses being in the age of Aries I
believe.
> What on earth could this mean??? No one in art
> class ever had an answer for it, but if one considers the precession of
> the equinoxes, Moses' era was the era of Aries/Libra -- no wonder he had
> horns.
It is because this knowledge was once commonly accepted in the period
about 12,000 years ago in Atlantis. When the detruction occurred, the
civilization that fled went east (Mayan and Olmec) and west (Egyptian)
when they interacted with the native cultures that were already in place
the information became twisted and changed and mixed with those cultures
lore. Hence the Mayan and Egyptian temples, Pyramids etc.
> No wonder "the law" was so prominent in Jewish religion. Going
> back before this, there is the cult of the minotaur (Taurus) and in
> South America the feathered serpent, and in Asia the seven headed
> serpent (Scorpio).
Yes, many of the Maya transcended physicality and are now seen as UFOs
in many areas around Belize.
> Food for thought. Especially when we think ahead to what the age of
> Aquarius/Leo will mean -- and look around for symbols that are starting
> to manifest.
> *****
> peace,
> maberry.
It will be the second coming of christ-which will be that idea in EACH
AND EVERY individual upon the planet.
The earliest known horoscope was discovered to be approximately 4400
years old, found in ancient Babylonia. Our days are named after planets.
The seven days of the week are one quarter of the Moon's cycle, a month
one lunar cycle, one quarter of Earth's orbit represents each season.
Celestial symbology and mythology gave birth to our current conception
of a civilized society. The connection was so powerful that to be
separated from the cosmos or stars spawned the word dis- aster.
About 2000 years ago Jesus the Christ was born, which set a powerful
tone for religious changes, the church and Christianity in general. The
precession of the equinox by the coincidence of the equator and the
plane of the ecliptic (the zodiac) allows for a regression through the
astrological signs at a rate of approximately 30 degrees or one sign of
the zodiac every 2000 years. Christ was born during the dawning of the
age of Pisces, symbolically representing the savior, sacrifice, sorrow
and physical suffering as an effect of the physical focus of material
reality, and it's toll from the illusion of duality and the limitations
of physical focus. The sign Pisces is symbolized by two fish swimming in
opposite directions. Modern day Christians display little magnetic fish
on the back of their automobile as their symbol of their religion-and
yet are vehement in their belief that astrology is satanic.
Fundamentalists fight the scientific view for prominence in the
educational system and texts on the issue of creation vs evolution (two
fish swimming in opposite directions).
The three "wise men" (Magi Greek from Persian meaning diviner or
astrologers) followed the stars (or horoscope) because of their
recognition of the uniqueness of astrological configurations. We don't
need much science to recognize that you cannot follow an astronomical
object (such as Hale-Bopp Comet) and be lead to somewhere on the globe.
Yet this explanation is more widely accepted than the astrological one!
This is because organized religion is analytically the science of
following. "For religious devotion is a collective phenomenon that does
not depend on individual endowment." It is more than likely a defense
psychologically against religious (spiritual) experience. "O ye of
little faith" was intended to generate the idea that every individual
"was as powerful as they need to be to create whatever they desire to
create in their reality, without having to hurt themselves or anyone
else in order to create it." This is the concept of self-empowerment. "I
am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the father, but
by me" as a model of behavior not who to praise, glorify, or follow.
"All that is" or God, is all one thing.
Science on the other hand separates nature from man, Deus ex machina,
(deity separate from the machine) a perspective adopted as a bi-product
of extreme focus, and an effect of commercialism and the
technological/territorial perspective. This delusion of grandeur has
created the infinite number of substances "known to cause Cancer in
laboratory animals", and other fallacies of inductive reasoning, that
have created a medical industry nightmare, an out of control insurance
industry based on statistics, a rapidly decreasing ozone layer, the
illusion of using propulsion for space travel, etc., etc.. Yes it has
given us many wonderful devices, that have led us away from the awe
inspiring sight of a starlit night. And away from the re-cognition that
we are a part of it. DNA patterns follow astrological patterns, the
initial template.
The Age of Aquarius has dawned. No longer do we need to worship or
follow saviors or dicta. Aquarius is ruled by the planet Uranus, the
great awakener (Buddha and Christ consciousness). Aeons ago Uranus was
brushed by the dark body Nemesis, counterpart of our Sun and was tipped
on it's axis. This reflected the aspect of consciousness that was
sacrificed to the unconscious as an effect of focus (Saturn) and hence
the direct line to the creator was severed. We have played the game of
forgetting and limitation to it's end. Time for the second coming. Which
will happen within each individual. The glyph of Aquarius b reflects
the electricity and sensation of waking up to the avant garde (advanced
group or forward guard) recognition that we create our reality 100% even
when we use 90% to create the illusion that we only have the remaining
10%. And that by the recognition of the validity of the individuality of
each and every individual is the way to "a new world order". Taking full
responsibility for one's reality creations=absolute freedom. The
astrologer will serve as that forward guard.
--
"Its the same kind of story that seems to come down from long ago, two
friends having coffee together when something flies by their
window....and it seems like a dream-they got you hypnotized." Fleetwood
Mac "Hypnotized"
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. add an n to wollman to e-mail me
© 1997 Altair Publications
maberry
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> maberry wrote:
>
> I wish you would quote what I wrote, especially since we have Rick Ellis
> canceling and diverting all my posts from being archived.
Sorry Ed, no harm intended. My old eyes get strained going thru so many
quoted and requoted words, and I just figured anyone who wanted could
click on the reference number. :) Plus, I'm not too sure of the
etiquette involved in deleting parts of the post. Is this a nono, or is
it OK as long as it is indicated with a ,snip.???
>
> > Hi, interesting. With regard to EW's comment above on bible art and the
> > symbols of the four signs/four evangelists -- one of my teachers (credit
> > where credit is due: Jim Cummins) clued me in to these symbols going
> > even farther back than the recent Christian era, and he suggested I read
> > Manly Palmer Hall (who is a truly excellent author). If one studies
> > art, you can see the symbols going way back to antiquity, including
> Well acually I meant back to the period of the Merovingians and
> Carolingians in 700s in Germanic areas.
>
> the
> > Sphinx: head of a man (Aq)/paws of a lion (Leo)/body of bull (Tau)/wings
> > of eagle (scorp).
>
> But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
> a head of a Lion originally.
Hmm...I hadn't heard this -- where can I get more info??
<snip> -- and I hope this is OK --
**********
peace
maberry
maberry
OK, this time I'm not quoting anything. Looks like the gremlins are at
it, hey? In the previous two posts, somehow, MYSTERIOUSLY, what you
wrote and what I wrote got mixed up. How does this happen???
******
peace
*******
maberry
Edmond Wollmann
maberry wrote:
> Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> > maberry wrote:
> > I wish you would quote what I wrote, especially since we have Rick Ellis
> > canceling and diverting all my posts from being archived.
> Sorry Ed, no harm intended.
I know its just easier to follow the train of conversation.
> My old eyes get strained going thru so many
> quoted and requoted words, and I just figured anyone who wanted could
> click on the reference number. :)
Yes, but if you depend on that you will soon find out that those little
tricks sometimes happen and when you go and click on the reference low
and behold it aint there. Plus its more work for the poster to answer.
> Plus, I'm not too sure of the
> etiquette involved in deleting parts of the post. Is this a nono, or is
> it OK as long as it is indicated with a ,snip.???
Its ok if its not relevent to what you are talking about sure.
> > > Sphinx: head of a man (Aq)/paws of a lion (Leo)/body of bull (Tau)/wings
> > > of eagle (scorp).
> > But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
> > a head of a Lion originally.
There were some studies done on the age of the different parts and also
on the erosion on it-which turned out to be water not wind or
sand-meaning it is MUCH older than previously assumed (I would say more
like 11,000 years not 4) but the Egyptian Archeaologists of course don't
want it too old because it makes them look like the "keepers of the
Sphinx" rather than the architects-its always political, a shame too
since these scientists run around trying to convince everyone they are
"objectivity" incarnate.
> Hmm...I hadn't heard this -- where can I get more info??
Not sure, I will have to recheck but there is a lot of work on this.
> <snip> -- and I hope this is OK --
**********
> peace
> maberry
Sure I don't want to be a pain but I do know what I said:-)
--
"Let us live from the proposition that RIGHT makes might, not might
makes right." Abraham Lincoln
Another moon in Capricorn
Stephen Tonkin
In article <3419D6...@aznet.net>, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
>But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
>a head of a Lion originally.
Evidence?
--
Stephen Tonkin
Robert J. Pease
Stephen Tonkin wrote:
>
> In article <3419D6...@aznet.net>, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
> >a head of a Lion originally.
>
>
> --
> Stephen Tonkin
evidence?
evidence?
we don't got to show you no steenkin' evidence!!!
EWollmann
>From: "Robert J. Pease" <bobp...@concentric.net>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 08:45:17 -0600
>Message-id: <341AA6...@concentric.net>
>
>
Complaints can be sent to ab...@concentric.net
SNIP!
****** ANSWERS ******
1) For what sort of discussions is alt.astrology intended?
Answer: Alt.astrology is intended as a forum for astrologers of
all levels of expertise, from beginners to advanced, to discuss
astrological topics.
Alt.astrology is *not* intended as a forum for disbelievers to
voice their contempt for astrologers or to harass astrologers
about their belief in astrology and demand of them scientific
proof. Groups discussing the scientific validity of theories are
prefixed with "sci." If you wish to discuss the validity of
astrology as a discipline (as opposed to the validity of specific
theoretical statements within the domain of astrology), the
appropriate group on which to post is sci.skeptic. Here is the
statement of purpose for that group:
"Sci.skeptic is for those who are skeptical about claims of
the paranormal to meet with those who believe in the paranormal.
In this way the paranormalists can expose their ideas to
scientific scrutiny, and if there is anything in these ideas
then the skeptics might learn something."
Sci.skeptic often contains long discussions of scientific
evidence for and against specific astrological hypotheses, and
such discussion is welcome in that group. Further, many members
of that group are qualified to evaluate scientific evidence. The
astrologers in this group who enjoy participating in such
discussion with skeptics read and post to sci.skeptic.
http://www.magitech.com/pub/astrology/info/faq.txt
Fox Mulder
Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> maberry wrote:
>
> > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>
> > > maberry wrote:
>
> > > I wish you would quote what I wrote, especially since we have Rick Ellis
> > > canceling and diverting all my posts from being archived.
>
> > Sorry Ed, no harm intended.
>
>
> > quoted and requoted words, and I just figured anyone who wanted could
> > click on the reference number. :)
>
> tricks sometimes happen and when you go and click on the reference low
> and behold it aint there. Plus its more work for the poster to answer.
>
> > etiquette involved in deleting parts of the post. Is this a nono, or is
> > it OK as long as it is indicated with a ,snip.???
>
>
> > > > of eagle (scorp).
>
> > > But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
> > > a head of a Lion originally.
>
> on the erosion on it-which turned out to be water not wind or
> sand-meaning it is MUCH older than previously assumed (I would say more
> like 11,000 years not 4) but the Egyptian Archeaologists of course don't
> want it too old because it makes them look like the "keepers of the
> Sphinx" rather than the architects-its always political, a shame too
> since these scientists run around trying to convince everyone they are
> "objectivity" incarnate.
>
>
>
> **********
> > peace
> > maberry
>
> --
> "Let us live from the proposition that RIGHT makes might, not might
> makes right." Abraham Lincoln
> Another moon in Capricorn
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. add an n to wollman to e-mail me
> © 1997 Altair Publications
Good Morning:
sent this late last night, don't see it yet so I'm re-sending it; again,
if it's a duplicate I apologize.
"Serpent in the Sky" by John Anthony West details the "water-eroded"
Sphinx theory...actually it's not his own theory, he noted in some
writings by R.A.Schwaller de Lubicz (an Alsatian mathematician and
philosopher who spent 15 years (in Egypt) studying the Temple of
Luxor) an offhand statement that the Sphinx was weathered by water
(not wind as generally accepted) and has made it his life's work
investigating, verifying and trying to get some "serious attention"
paid to the evidence...
It's a wonderful book, and R.A.Schwaller de Lubicz's works are available
from Inner Traditions also. Enjoy!
EWollmann
>From: Stephen Tonkin <as...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 07:56:38 +0100
>Message-id: <I97La3Dm...@aegis1.demon.co.uk>
>>a head of a Lion originally.
>
>
>
Evidence it isn't?
EWollmann
>From: Fox Mulder <fm...@XFiles.com>
>Date: Sat, 13 Sep 1997 09:02:32 -0600
>Message-id: <341AAB...@XFiles.com>
>Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>> maberry wrote:
>> > Edmond Wollmann wrote:
>> > > maberry wrote:
>> > > > Sphinx: head of a man (Aq)/paws of a lion (Leo)/body of bull
>(Tau)/wings
>> > > > of eagle (scorp).
>> > > But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it
>was
>> > > a head of a Lion originally.
>> There were some studies done on the age of the different parts and also
>> on the erosion on it-which turned out to be water not wind or
>> sand-meaning it is MUCH older than previously assumed (I would say more
>> like 11,000 years not 4)
This fits with my concept that the Sphynx and Giza were built by the
Atlanteans-not Egyptians-as a testament of our once great understanding not
only of astrology, but the ideas I speak of with regard to the 4 dimnesions
template (DNA, partilce physics laws, the Elements in astrology, and the
coding in the Bible by 3,4, 7, 12).
> but the Egyptian Archeaologists of course don't
>> want it too old because it makes them look like the "keepers of the
>> Sphinx" rather than the architects-its always political, a shame too
>> since these scientists run around trying to convince everyone they are
>> "objectivity" incarnate.
>> > Hmm...I hadn't heard this -- where can I get more info??
>> Not sure, I will have to recheck but there is a lot of work on this.
>Good Morning:
>sent this late last night, don't see it yet so I'm re-sending it; again,
>if it's a duplicate I apologize.
>
>"Serpent in the Sky" by John Anthony West details the "water-eroded"
>Sphinx theory...actually it's not his own theory, he noted in some
>writings by R.A.Schwaller de Lubicz (an Alsatian mathematician and
>philosopher who spent 15 years (in Egypt) studying the Temple of
>Luxor) an offhand statement that the Sphinx was weathered by water
>(not wind as generally accepted) and has made it his life's work
>investigating, verifying and trying to get some "serious attention"
>paid to the evidence...
Thank you for this info!
Yes, it makes sense, because the base was buried by sand for thousands of
years and when uncovered low and behold the base was eroded by water! And
the upper parts have been redone many times. So if the bottom-covered by
sand was eroded by water it would have to be very old indeed since water in
the region-again would have been 10 to 12,000 years ago-not 4000.
>It's a wonderful book, and R.A.Schwaller de Lubicz's works are available
>from Inner Traditions also. Enjoy!
--
"Its the same kind of story that seems to come down from long ago, two
friends having coffee together when something flies by their window.....and
it seems like a dream-they got you hypnotized. Now you know it's a
meaningless question to ask if those stories are right! Cause what matters
most, is the feeling you get when you're hypnotized." Fleetwood Mac "Hypnotized"
maberry
Hi Fox -- thanks for the infor. I am OK with the idea of extreme age of
the Sphinx and also with the water erosion -- but I don't recall ever
seeing that its face had once been a lion --???? If so, this would blow
the idea that it represented the 4 fixed signs all these eons wouldn't
it -- unless something other than "the face of a man" represented
Aquarius.
And just as a note to everyone:
Regarding this Carl Jung and Mandalas post -- what Ed wrote and what I
wrote got all mixed up somehow. It doesn't really matter to me, but you
know, some people may need evidence.....
Fox Mulder
maberry wrote:
>
> Hi Fox -- thanks for the infor. I am OK with the idea of extreme age of
> the Sphinx and also with the water erosion -- but I don't recall ever
> seeing that its face had once been a lion --???? If so, this would
Hi maberry *G*
Took a quick look at "Serpent in the Sky" and found no indication that
the head of the sphinx had ever been changed, it's been resurfaced but
that seems to be all.
Re: de Lubicz: his work, according to West, shows the Temple at Luxor
tells the story of the creation of man and his relation to the
Universe...Astrologically significant???? There's a wealth of
information in these *G* deLubicz is difficult reading though, West
is easier *G*
Jim Rogers
EWollmann wrote
> >From: Stephen Tonkin <as...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
...
> >In article <3419D6...@aznet.net>, Edmond Wollmann wrote:
> >>But the head of the sphinx is a recent addition it is more likely it was
> >>a head of a Lion originally.
> >Evidence?
> Evidence it isn't?
Evidence that the moon isn't made of green cheese?
Jim
petejanR...@spamblockc-zone.net
pete comments: a horoscope is picture of the sky
for given monent in time. Astrology is not a symbolic
language - astrology is alive an well and up in the
sky. The main problem with ed PMAFA is that he
doesn't practice astrology - at least none that
he posts about on alt.astrology.