>drr0c...@yahoo.com (Bodhisattvacat) wrote in message news:<4f2532f6.0408090702.1 >4914...@posting.google.com>... >> I find the Biblical belief that one should treat others the way one >> wants to be treated to lead to bad results.
>What was your first clue?
>>If one treats others the >> way one wants to be treated, one projects one's needs onto the other >> person, who may have completely different needs from one's own and >> want to be treated in a manner totally different from how one wants to >> be treated. It is a case of seeing others as replicas of oneself - a >> case of denying people the fact of their individuality; a case of >> projecting oneself onto other people who may not be similar to oneself >> at all.
>Exactly. A person may have a completely different notion of social >etiquette than you do - and consider their own rude behavior to be an >acceptable way to interact with everyone, including themselves.
>Cat
Hi Cat,
There's definitely something I can't see here.
You have an instruction which says, begging the question:
do unto others as you would they should do unto you
which I'd always taken to mean:
treat (all) other people (no matter how different they are, or how differently their POV, or how they regard you) ...
with the same patience and kindness you would want them to treat you (and no matter how different they are, there's still only one standard of patience and kindness by which YOU'd ideally like to be treated, and so this won't depend on who's doing the treating) ...
and so your treatment of each one _reflects_ YOUR one ideal. Therefore their differing reactions of that one ideal treatment of yours is beside the point.
Because, in the end, you're not responsible for _their_ reaction to your treating them, only for that treatment.
So where have I 'gone astray'? >:|
'Occasionally, you may come across the UNIX 'expert'. Too old and weary for anything of use, these creatures are put out to grass, where they immediately elect themselves to committees and start writing books.
If you have one of these, be kind to it, buy it drinks and treat it with respect. On no account ask it for advice, for its language is no longer the same as yours.'
-- Mike Banahan, Andy Rutter 'UNIX - The Book'
Pete Turk <P...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> ICQ# 11981084 RFA President and Moonshadow -- May your doorstep ever be dirty. -- Romany blessing
> >So what's your objection > >to Ilya B. Shambat then?
> That he's a boring, pathetic, long winded, talentless wanker without > the sense to come in out of the cold who x-posts to hell and back.
Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies.
When I study something, I want to find out what is its the mechanism. You are interested only in the result and whether it parses with your predefined notions about the world.
If someone gets a novel idea in his head as a result of drugs or as a result of meditation, I want to know what exactly in the brain has been affected to give such an idea and whether the brain may contain inbuilt wisdom that drugs or meditation may have activated, and from which I can learn something. You only say that there's been drug use, or the person was of disreputable character, or that he was doing "weird stuff," and blindly and stupidly dismiss it without further analysis.
That's not science or skepticism. That is blindness.
I believe that, if someone could write the Gospels, or Bhagavad Gita, or the I Ching, in a way that inspires and guides millions for thousands of years, then they may possess some truth I may learn from. I do not believe that a religion - a mindset - can be only studied from the outside, based solely on analysis of factuality of its statements. I believe that a religion needs to be studied both from within and from without - by placing yourself inside the mindset of the religion, and also by analyzing the statements it makes for objective veracity, as well as for such things as fulfilled prophecies and unusual insight (and Bible has plenty of those) that may demonstrate supernatural powers at play.
I believe that objective measurement is not enough to understand an experience or a belief system; one needs to have an integrative perspective - the perspective of both objective measurement and subjective experience - before one can fully understand what the religious person goes through and if there may be to his experience some truth you may benefit from experiencing yourself. To blindly dismiss a religious mindset because of a factually false statement in the scriptures, is to dismiss all the work that millions of smart, inspired people who lived the religion have contributed with their thoughts and experience - an act of blindness rather than intelligence.
To understand religious mindsets I've done many things. I hug trees and kiss flowers. I merge my aura with that of trees and let them take away my negativity. I have done yoga, transcendental meditation, Tai Chi and Falun Gong exercises. I commune with the spirit of a woman I love and bask in its cloud-white tenderness and warm delicacy while giving to her the warmth of my heart and my love for her. I keep in my mind copies of many mindsets I've encountered and check with them whenever I have a decision - sometimes they speak to me on their own, and I have to figure out how to best incorporate their thoughts. I place myself inside the cultural group mind and correct its errors - the stress of that, the constant chatter and constant attack, demands from me a lot of presence of mind but allows me to create original and effective arguments to correct cultural errors and evil and empower with insight and arguments truth, goodness, beauty and love. I open myself to Jesus, to Hindu swamis, to Mother Mary, to Buddha, to Taoist masters, and let them teach me mindsets of abundant love, compassion, devotion, patience, peace and altruism - all qualities they know better than I do and that I experience directly by merging with their minds.
For a while I believed I was the Antichrist. Then I decided that, Antichrist or no, I have free will, and since I had never performed the unforgivable sin of profaning the Holy Spirit I could qualify for God's mercy. So I got on my knees and confessed my sins. It took a long time; I had not realized I had sinned so much. After that God asked, "Is that all?" I said I did not know. He told me to think awhile about the implications of what had just happened.
I find that people have had good ideas since Bhagavad Gita and the New Testament - ideas that made the world we live in a better place than Paul or Jesus or writers of the Upanishads would have wanted it to be. I cultivate a relationship with these figures of give-and-take and sharing of insight and wisdom, understanding that they have some but not all of the truth. I learn a whole lot from them - things that weren't a part of my upbringing or a natural part of my character but that give me strength and ability to do good I otherwise would not be able to do. At the same time, I am of the belief that we, being made in God's image, are capable of thoughts that God or his prophets had not anticipated - and I offer such thoughts, while also considering thoughts of Blake, Hegel, Nietzsche, Ayn Rand, Robert Anton Wilson, Albert Einstein, Victor Frankl, Rollo May, John Nash and others who likewise had thoughts God had not anticipated or, if He had, did not tell us.
Having had the most magnificent woman in the world, I am no longer looking for a woman. That allows me freedom I did not previously have, and I can serve God and my fellow man without anything holding me back. I figure that a path of service and philanthropy will be a way to make the most of what God has given me. And if there's anything wrong with my character or psychology, the act of consistently and deliberately doing good for my fellow man will be the best way to correct it.
> Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies[...] > I hug trees and kiss flowers.
D.
-- "I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it." ................................................................... (C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
>> That he's a boring, pathetic, long winded, talentless wanker without >> the sense to come in out of the cold who x-posts to hell and back.
>Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies.
Yet somehow we never see evidence of those smarts. And if you're smarter than me, you're still a boring, pathetic, long winded, talentless wanker without the sense to come in out of the cold who x-posts to hell and back.
>When I study something, I want to find out what is its the mechanism.
As do I; there's nothing unique in being interested in mechanism, but results do matter.
>You are interested only in the result and whether it parses with your >predefined notions about the world.
Ah, which of us was unable to recognize talent in Eminem because he found him politically unacceptable (Ie., that he challenged preconceived notions)? Oh, wait, that'd be *you*.
>If someone gets a novel idea in his head as a result of drugs or as >a result of meditation, I want to know what exactly in the brain has >been affected to give such an idea and whether the brain may contain >inbuilt wisdom that drugs or meditation may have activated, and from >which I can learn something. You only say that there's been drug use, >or the person was of disreputable character, or that he was doing >"weird stuff," and blindly and stupidly dismiss it without further >analysis.
Ah, no, if I were interested in the subject, I'd want to know if it was a good or useful idea, how it compared to facts and how it preformed compared to previous ideas on the same subject. Granted, in a world of limited time, I'm not inclined to spend much effort on the poorly expressed notions of someone who doesn't have sense to come in out of the cold.
One problem with ideas conceived in altered states of consciousness is that they may have no relationship to reality. Even genuinely smart people can have this problem, cf Dr. Feynman's account of his experiments with sensory depravation in _Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman!_. As a result of sensory depravation, he got "a novel idea in his head" that he knew how memory worked. It took him a while to realize that what he'd actually had was a delusion that he knew how memory worked. If somebody's self assessment skills are compromised, if may be a long time before they realize that what they actually had was delusion, not enlightenment.
>That's not science or skepticism. That is blindness.
That's a straw man.
>I believe that, [...] I do not believe that [...]
>I believe that [...]
I believe that you need to be a *lot* more concise if you want people to read what you write.
>[...]I keep in my mind copies >of many mindsets I've encountered and check with them whenever I have a >decision - sometimes they speak to me on their own, and I have to >figure out how to best incorporate their thoughts.
Voices in your head.
>I place myself >inside the cultural group mind and correct its errors
Yea, right.
>- the stress of >that, the constant chatter and constant attack, demands from me a lot >of presence of mind but allows me to create original and effective >arguments to correct cultural errors and evil and empower with insight
Well, *you* think they're original and effective.
>[...] I open myself to Jesus, [...] all qualities [...] >that I experience directly by merging with their minds. >For a while I believed I was the Antichrist. [...] >After that God asked, "Is that all?" I said I did not know. [...]
Scroll on up to what I wrote earlier about ideas conceived in altered states of consciousness.
[....]
-- - A (Temporary) Dog |"[W]hy don't admins let people settle "Dog of Disinformation" | things like adults. Frankly, I'm not The Domain is *erols dot com* | sure I wanted to equipt my users with The Name is tempdog | AK-47s and napalm". Put together as name@domain | - Rebecca Ore
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, A [Temporary] Dog wrote back al Ilya Shambat: [...]
> >You are interested only in the result and whether it parses with your > >predefined notions about the world.
> Ah, which of us was unable to recognize talent in Eminem because he > found him politically unacceptable (Ie., that he challenged > preconceived notions)? Oh, wait, that'd be *you*.
Oh really? I thought that was me. But then *I* object to Eminem because he's a pompous talentless wanker who gives me a headache (as Ilya does).
The
-- "I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it." ................................................................... (C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:04:52 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> painted a red bull's eye on his forehead, ascended the altar of Fluffy and shouted:
>On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, A [Temporary] Dog wrote back al Ilya Shambat: >[...]
>> >You are interested only in the result and whether it parses with your >> >predefined notions about the world.
>> Ah, which of us was unable to recognize talent in Eminem because he >> found him politically unacceptable (Ie., that he challenged >> preconceived notions)? Oh, wait, that'd be *you*.
>Oh really? I thought that was me.
Ilya did first.
>But then *I* object to Eminem because >he's a pompous talentless wanker who gives me a headache (as Ilya does).
Pompous I'd agree with, and no ones asking you to like him, but calling him talentless at this point says more about how you don't get it then it does about Eminem's talent.
-- - A (Temporary) Dog | Certified PSF / Virtual Kookhound "Dog of Disinformation" | Guild Dog for the "We're *Not* Lost The Domain is *erols dot com* | Damit" Tribe of Skeptics The Name is tempdog | Official Compainion Animal of Put together as name@domain | the Black Ships "One Small Step For A Paranormal, One Giant Leap For KookKind" - Cipher
> it is a new covenant of grace but it does not replace the Law > or the Prophets which are in the OT
All depends on where you read in the NT. "The law and the prophets were until John; since then the kingdom of God is preached..." Luke 16:16. Ephesians 2:15 says Jesus "abolished the law with its commandments and ordinances." In Matthew 5:38-39 he rejects "a tooth for a tooth." Over in Mark 7:18-23 he tosses out the dietary laws. Etc.
> > Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies[...] > > I hug trees and kiss flowers.
> D.
I'm smarter than you too, though it took me a while to get there.
I appreciate being alive. I appreciate the beautiful things we have on planet Earth. I have gratitude for and openness to the magnificence of the universe. I am grateful that I breathe, grateful that I have the abilities that I have, grateful for my experiences. And in this gratitude I find joy.
Which is much smarter than being a miserable, vicious, destructive POS who equates his blindness and ignorance with intelligence or rationality and leads his mind into destructive postmodernist loops that destroy all good that comes near him and then proves that despair, nastiness and parasitism is the consummate state of human existence.
Nature has a lot to teach us about patience and perseverance, about love, about compassion, about self-perfection, about overcoming obstacles.
When I hug trees or kiss flowers, I express appreciation for what these brothers and sisters of us know and go through, which is in many cases more impressive than what many people ever achieve. They know how to live in harmony for millions of years and be the best thing they can be while achieving symbiosis with the rest of the planet. Which is something that people can very well learn from.
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: [...]
> I'm smarter than you
If you say so, little man.
[...]
> I am grateful that I breathe, grateful that I have the abilities > that I have, grateful for my experiences.
That make one of us.
> And in this gratitude I find joy.
So you masturbate in public, in front of a woman who does not want to watch, and she has you arrested for it. Some genius you are.
At least I have one thing to be grateful for: I'm not you.
Nub, Dabey
P.S. The word "Postmodernist" never meant much, and the way you use it empties it of anything resembling meaning. I suggest you find another term: Hitler used "Jew-Bolshevik", Stalin "Trotskyite", and an ex-girlfriend of mind was fond of "psychopathological"; surely you'll think of something. How about "hung like a pony"?
-- "I don't think that I can take it, cuz it took so long to bake it." ................................................................... (C) 2004 TheDavid^TM | David, P.O. Box 21403, Louisville, KY 40221
>> > Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies[...] >> > I hug trees and kiss flowers.
>> D.
> I'm smarter than you too,
David got caught whacking off in a library twice? PPOSTFU, convict!
-- Cujo - The Official Overseer of Kooks and Trolls in dfw.*, alt.paranormal, alt.astrology and alt.astrology.metapsych. Winner of the 8/2000 & 2/2003 HL&S award. Hail Petitmorte! Colonel of the Fanatic Legion. FL# 555-PLNTY Motto: ABUNDANCE!. Official Slapper of Spamming Mary the Drama Queen. Meow. "Have you people gone for counseling for your addiction to both stupidity and the newsgroups?" - Ed vaporizes another Irony Meter.
On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: >[...]
>> I'm smarter than you
>If you say so, little man.
heh
One of the guys at work started calling me that after we went to diversity training together (he's about 3 inches taller than I am and he carries about 220 pounds quite well). I call him half wit, he calls me little man. He's one of the mellowest people I know and he brings me something for breakfast once a week. They don't make 'em that way anymore. Hmm, the woman who sits across from him brings me something to eat 3 or 4 times a week. What's up with all this attention? Do you think they hope I'll spare them if I ever go postal?
In article <a9962032.0408300759.1cc42...@posting.google.com>, bob <thana...@coldmail.nu> writes
>drr0c...@yahoo.com (Bodhisattvacat) wrote: >> David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message news:<Pine.LNX.4.58.04081516 >11030.8...@troll.weezl.org>... >> > On Sun, 15 Aug 2004, Bodhisattvacat wrote: >> > [snips]
>> > > Actually I'm smarter than you or any of your jerk buddies[...] >> > > I hug trees and kiss flowers.
>> > D.
>> I'm smarter than you too ...
>Wrong!
So you're as smart as Ilya Shambat then, Bob?
In that case, let's hear your opinion of Abraham Maslow ...
'Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.'
-- Oscar Wilde 'De Profundis' 1905
Pete Turk <P...@ragtag.demon.co.uk> ICQ# 11981084 RFA President and Moonshadow -- May your doorstep ever be dirty. -- Romany blessing
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> >wrote:
>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: >>[...]
>>> I'm smarter than you
>>If you say so, little man.
>heh
>One of the guys at work started calling me that after we went to >diversity training together (he's about 3 inches taller than I am and >he carries about 220 pounds quite well). I call him half wit, he calls >me little man. He's one of the mellowest people I know and he brings >me something for breakfast once a week. They don't make 'em that way >anymore. Hmm, the woman who sits across from him brings me something >to eat 3 or 4 times a week. What's up with all this attention? Do you >think they hope I'll spare them if I ever go postal?
Here, why don't we give you a rubdown with Worcestershire sauce; it's all the rage.
-- - A (Temporary) Dog | Certified PSF / Virtual Kookhound "Dog of Disinformation" | Guild Dog for the "We're *Not* Lost The Domain is *erols dot com* | Damit" Tribe of Skeptics The Name is tempdog | Official Compainion Animal of Put together as name@domain | the Black Ships "One Small Step For A Paranormal, One Giant Leap For KookKind" - Cipher
bob wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> > wrote:
>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: >>[...]
>>>I'm smarter than you
>>If you say so, little man.
> heh
> One of the guys at work started calling me that after we went to > diversity training together (he's about 3 inches taller than I am and > he carries about 220 pounds quite well). I call him half wit, he calls > me little man. He's one of the mellowest people I know and he brings > me something for breakfast once a week. They don't make 'em that way > anymore. Hmm, the woman who sits across from him brings me something > to eat 3 or 4 times a week. What's up with all this attention? Do you > think they hope I'll spare them if I ever go postal?
<amungedtemp...@munged.see.sig> wrote: >On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 21:24:15 GMT, bob <thana...@coldmail.nu> painted a >red bull's eye on his forehead, ascended the altar of Fluffy and >shouted:
>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> >>wrote:
>>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: >>>[...]
>>>> I'm smarter than you
>>>If you say so, little man.
>>heh
>>One of the guys at work started calling me that after we went to >>diversity training together (he's about 3 inches taller than I am and >>he carries about 220 pounds quite well). I call him half wit, he calls >>me little man. He's one of the mellowest people I know and he brings >>me something for breakfast once a week. They don't make 'em that way >>anymore. Hmm, the woman who sits across from him brings me something >>to eat 3 or 4 times a week. What's up with all this attention? Do you >>think they hope I'll spare them if I ever go postal?
>Here, why don't we give you a rubdown with Worcestershire sauce; it's >all the rage.
Thanks for the thought but I don't think I'd like the way it would smell. Also, I get a massage every night already (unless one of us is out of town, which is rare).
>bob wrote: >> On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400, David <theda...@shell.rawbw.com> >> wrote:
>>>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Ilya "Bodhisattvacat" Shambat wrote to me: >>>[...]
>>>>I'm smarter than you
>>>If you say so, little man.
>> heh
>> One of the guys at work started calling me that after we went to >> diversity training together (he's about 3 inches taller than I am and >> he carries about 220 pounds quite well). I call him half wit, he calls >> me little man. He's one of the mellowest people I know and he brings >> me something for breakfast once a week. They don't make 'em that way >> anymore. Hmm, the woman who sits across from him brings me something >> to eat 3 or 4 times a week. What's up with all this attention? Do you >> think they hope I'll spare them if I ever go postal?
