"Spot the Psycho" test
t82...@my-deja.com
http://www.astrobella.com. Five anonymous
birth charts are given, one of which is a widely
acclaimed murderer and psychopath. A fun
test with surprising charts. Of course a mailto
is provided for those who want to complain
that such tests are unfair/unvalid :)
/tjd
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Blacktech
I picked the right one!!! I spotted the loony!!!
Maria
----
I've suffered for my art.
Now it's your turn.
doovinator
DJ
Steve G.
Can't resist giving myself the public pat the back with the Aries moon and all.
Steve
< the elf >
(You can Email me if you take off my undies)
Ray Murphy
----------
In article <703-3A5...@storefull-616.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,
do...@webtv.net (doovinator) wrote:
>I picked the right one too! (Yes, on the first try!)
>
>DJ
>
I didn't pick any. (I wasn't game) I don't like getting some astrology
wrong.
It looks like a good test though.
Ray
Kwaw
Blacktech <blac...@aol.combbanzai> wrote in message
news:20010110235715...@ng-ck1.aol.com...
>
> I picked the right one!!! I spotted the loony!!!
>
present in only the one chart - not always that straightforward (and
assuming they are not up to some trick and telling everyone the one they
picked was the right one?).
Maybe after others have had a go we could discuss the basis of our
decisions?
Kwaw
Martha Brummett
>A "Spot the Psycho" test is available at
>http://www.astrobella.com.
I was correct as well, and didn't expect to be. It'll be interesting
to see what we all looked for.
Martha Brummett
mo...@tde.com
Denver CO
Pete Phoenix
The only chart I recognised was "our Charlie's". The others were a
complete mystery to me, but I remember doing a lecture about the charts
of criminal psychopaths years ago, and what to look out for
astrologically, based on extensive research of a few carefully chosen
factors.
This chart had many of those in place, so it was no contest!
Pete ( yes! yes! yes!! I love it when I get it right! )
http://vaultofheaven.homestead.com/index.html
If love conquers all, what the hell happened to Romeo and Juliet?
Sharyn0761
think I could tell so I didn't play, but then I went back a second time, and
picked the right one on the first try. And yes, after everyone plays I want to
know why you all picked the one you did, OK?
<< Subject: Re: "Spot the Psycho" test
From: "Kwaw" kw...@mangans.clara.co.uk
Date: Thu, Jan 11, 2001 10:11 PM
Message-id: <v3r76.29886$0d.25...@nnrp4.clara.net>
Kwaw
>>
Sharyn (www.dreamwater.net/acarchives)
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Victoria M.
significant about chart 2. Death by execution might fit into that!
Victoria
Elisabeth
<t82...@my-deja.com> schrieb in im Newsbeitrag:
93i3rh$1gq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
That´s astrology?
It´s too easy, because the other charts are that famous, so it only can be
chart 3.
Elisabeth
LibraLove
wrong.
It looks like a good test though.
Ray >>
Ray,
Ah, give it a try. All astrologers make errors of judgment from time to time.
I have been reading charts for years and I was momentarily overwhelmed by the 5
charts, but started to see that a couple were obviously very wealthy, and a
couple very talented, then I narrowed it down to a cruel chart which was only
one very obviously. Go back and give it a shot.
Best to You -- LL
Heather
a chart that blatantly obvious(what a nightmare of a mother
she must have had) but I found it hysterical to see the one
chart that I knew whose it was right away which was
ol dumbo ears himself Charles LOL and I said well hmmm
is Charles a psycho? hahahahaha
Heather
doovinator
first try!
DJ
Pedantus
<t82...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93i3rh$1gq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> A "Spot the Psycho" test is available at
> http://www.astrobella.com. Five anonymous
> birth charts are given, one of which is a widely
> acclaimed murderer and psychopath. A fun
> test with surprising charts. Of course a mailto
> is provided for those who want to complain
> that such tests are unfair/unvalid :)
>
> /tjd
>
I thank my lucky stars every day that at least Walter Pullen knows
what a readable chart is *supposed* to look like...:)
And, no, there is no way to discern how a native will express a
chart...there is no murderer prior to a murder being committed.
Dyslexic-ally yours,
Rog
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/rog_chrt.gif
Nin.Ka.Si
#A "Spot the Psycho" test is available at
#http://www.astrobella.com. Five anonymous
#birth charts are given, one of which is a widely
#acclaimed murderer and psychopath. A fun
#test with surprising charts. Of course a mailto
#is provided for those who want to complain
#that such tests are unfair/unvalid :)
I almost selected the right chart, and then I ignored my intuition and
selected a different chart. adn I'm a rank beginner.. not bad. but DARN!
#
#/tjd
#
#
#Sent via Deja.com
#http://www.deja.com/
#
--
Nin.Ka.Si
Had a Home Brew, Lately
Sharyn0761
it was #3, right?) I'm assuming everyone had time to play who wanted to (Pete,
I'm especially interested to know what the indicators you mentioned were.)
OK, I'll go first. I did not recognize any of the charts off hand. Here was my
thinking:
I read the words "notorious psychopath and killer" and immediately looked at
the mid-heaven of each chart. Of course the stellium in #3 caught my eye and I
thought, well, that's certainly a set-up for notoriety.
The Leo stellium (and I'm counting Mars since I felt it was closely connected
even if in a different sign with a rather wide orb) encompassed both rulers of
the ASC, the ruler of the 3rd house of conscious mind, the ruler of the 9th, or
higher mind and ideals, as well as the 6th of health and systems. Moon/Saturn
within the stellium squares Mercury/SN 1st, ruling the 8th, and Mercury
quincunxes Uranus in the 8th, which rules the 4th.It began to indicate to me a
pattern of possible mental disturbance and an egocentric warping of ideals and
principles that might go along with a psychopathic condition of the physical
brain, as well as the kind of negative early childhood conditioning that might
be enough to lead to psychosis and eventually murder.
With the addition of Neptune as the natural (modern) ruler of the 12th house in
Libra, and Venus in Cappy ruling the 12th cusp in the 2nd, I realized that
balance, or lack of it, was the essence of the psychological makeup of this
person, and that even though the orb between NE/VE is quite wide, this person's
values regarding community and society were likely to be pretty skewered,
unbalanced, and maybe even ruthless and 'sick'.
And as Neptune sits in sextile to the Leo planets and the Sagittarian Sun, it
occured to me that any mental delusions present could easily support the
self-centered, idealistic (however warped) thinking of a psychotic murderer.
I have a book for writers about the thinking/behavior patterns of the criminal
mind, and it says that most murderers are people who never grew out of the
child stage into adults. I thought this fit the chart, with it's Leo
Moon/Saturn MC conjuction square the Scorp Mercury 1st. Ultimately, this seemed
a person concerned solely with satisfying emotional and ego urges that were
likely twisted and neglected in early childhood, which is one of the things
that profilers look for in their work.
I wasn't absolutely sure, and maybe you all know of other similar charts that
had or have a completely different mode of expression, but none of the other 4
charts seemed to have anywhere near the potential for this kind of darkness.
Moon/Pluto/Saturn/Mars, along with the placements of and relationships between
Uranus/Mercury and the stellium was just too much for me to ignore. I think the
clincher for me was that Mars, co-ruler of the ASC and ruled by that severely
afflicted Mercury, said that this person would be likely to act out all the
deep rage and agression attending a Moon like that with both verbal and
physical violence, and this would come to public attention by it's placement in
the 10th with the stellium.
So what were you all thinking when you chose? :-)
<oWo86.527$Dfu8.9...@news.randori.com>
<t82...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93i3rh$1gq$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> A "Spot the Psycho" test is available at
> http://www.astrobella.com. Five anonymous
> birth charts are given, one of which is a widely
> acclaimed murderer and psychopath. A fun
> test with surprising charts. Of course a mailto
> is provided for those who want to complain
> that such tests are unfair/unvalid :)
>
> /tjd
> >>
Sharyn (www.dreamwater.net/acarchives)
Neptune...@webtv.net
chart,as well as Leslie Van Houtens', "Tex" Watsons' and Susan Atkins. I
aiso have the charts of Sharon Tate,Abigail Folger,Steve Parent, and Jay
Sebring. If anyone is interested in a chart for when the killers climbed
over the fence at the Tate home, try Aug.9,1969 at 12:18 a.m. PDT Los
Angelas,Cal. VERY interesting!!
Martha Brummett
>Sebring. If anyone is interested in a chart for when the killers climbed
>over the fence at the Tate home, try Aug.9,1969 at 12:18 a.m. PDT Los
>Angelas,Cal. VERY interesting!!
I'm not very knowledgable about the subject, but just looked for the
person who'd be likely to be able to "get away" with it (assumed that
serial murders would be farther apart in time) and picked the SO 120
MO separation.
I once met someone who left the "family" a year or so before the
murders, will try to find her chart.
doovinator
same reasoning. The clincher for me was the very prominent Neptune. The
only other one that gave me pause was Anastasia.
DJ
Pedantus
"*SES*" <au...@efortress.com> wrote in message
news:004501c07f8b$967f9820$c4aa...@auag.efortress.com...
> Well, I picked the wrong one...
> I chose Anastasia's chart.
> But then again how do we know she wasn't a psycho? ;o)
>
> My first impression was the correct chart but I thought "NAH, the
Scorpio
> Asc. chart must be a trick chart thrown in because ALL murderers
always seem
> to be SCORPIOs or heavy on that influence with their obsession with
death
> and all." The Scorp Merc in 1st and the Uranus in Gem in 8th. Geez...
It
> just seemed too easy, so my suspicious Scorpio Moon thought it was a
TRICK.
> LOL!!!
> Just goes to prove my "first impression theory is always right"
though...
> Susan S.
>
Don't feel alone, Susan...I apparently picked #2 as well...though I
think I was butterflied by the ballot...:)
I think the behaviorists' term, extinction, applies to the way I see
no special violent "influence" concerning Scorpio on the Asc. or
conjunctions of Mars and Saturn, etc.. To my mind there is always a
question of whether a social definition of a person is sufficient to
define the individual character of the native/chart. I remember being
able to see people as native's of a given Sun sign, then as Sun signs
with probable a Asc. (guessing Sun signs birth times within an hour or
so was such a big hit at parties...:) Then, quite suddenly, the large
simplistic categories were gone, the ability to see Sun signs and Asc.
just evaporated....distinct individual human being simply appeared for
the first time in my life and replaced most of my stereotypical
expectations.
In all fairness, I do not see how an unbiased sampling of charts
could ever be the basis for a successful demonstration of astrology's
ability to "pick the psycho". In truth each natal is a potential
psychopath who has, as a majority seems to do, fortunately adapted to
his/her environment in a socially acceptable manner. Every person seems
a case of "there but the grace of God, go I.." Fortunately, natal chart
s refer best to the specific, symbolic, details of one's more unique,
unpredictable, adaptations.
Rog
Heather
Before I even looked at any charts I said okay Heather find the twisted
scorp mind... now this was in the "ideal sense" and I laughed when
I clicked the link for the charts and there it was in all its glory :-)
I happen to be rather interested in quincunxes per se since they
really aren't given their due. I find they create more problems
than a square.(quincunxes by nature are an 8th house connotation)
when the chart had a Scorp rising in addition
to the twisted mercury I thought oh... double trouble it's in the first house
and with the node quincunx Uranus in the 8th in Gem reinforced the mercurial
crisis. Quite frankly I think she was really whacked with no sense
of right and wrong and making laws up only true to herself,
coupled with the stellium at the MC said "bingo."
There's a difference
to me between someone capable of premeditated murder
and murder in self defense
that is spur of the moment.. I think most of us are capable of that...
(without having a wacko chart)
I know I would have no problem if someone burglar was attacking me
or my family... Just give me a tennis racket and I'd beat him
to death like I do with a ball on a tennis court ;-) I can see the
headlines now "woman beats burglar to death with double fisted
backhand" <BG>
Heather
Heather
a slew of violent charts but I never thought they'd actually murder
because I felt the native basically knew right from wrong. Their
thinking(mercury) was clear and not twisted.
Serial Murder in my view is a head trip...something that lies in waiting
till it's activated.. basically an unhealthy mind that then employs violence
as their slave for the head games that are playing vicious volleyball
in their mind. Look at Jeff Dahmer. (Mr. let me cut up your body
parts and do god knows what with them) I always go for mercury...
he has mercury in Gemini which is
in the 8th conjunct the sun and quincunx Neptune while squaring
Pluto .if I want to widen the orb to 4 degrees, mercury
is also quincunx Jupiter which would form a yod .There's the quincunx(es)
again that I feel creates more mayhem than any square... it's as
if the native can't reconcile thought processes correctly..one of
frustration if you will and incredible tension. I have no doubts this guy was an obsessed
wacko that thought gruesome Plutonic thoughts... what's more gruesome
than chopping up body parts? Probably the penis in his case since
he did it to men.(because I think he had a problem with his own
sexual identity) Add to that a moon (wide conj.with mars)
square saturn and you have an emotional mess with warped thinking.
The funny thing
was the people that knew him said he was a very pleasant (Libra
rising) guy. Meanwhile he was one of the sickest people on the face
of the planet. The sick serial murderers are different than the crime
of passion murderers that catch their spouse with another person..
that's a reaction temper taking place... not someone that plots how
to stalk their prey and slice them to bits many times over for years.
Take a look at Hitler's chart sometime... he was just a cruel SOB
but a different kind of murderer. Or John Wayne Gacy... another
mercurial nightmare of a chart serial killer that thankfully was executed
years ago in Chicago. That guy was really sick... he was arrested
on suspicion of killing a young man and then they found dozens
more buried in his basement.
if anyone's interested in serial killer sick minds:
Jeff Dahmer
5-21-60
Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA
4:34 p.m.
John Wayne Gacy
3-17-42
Chicago, Illinois USA
12:20 a.m.
Heather
Pedantus <rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote in message news:JnY86.1211$yew8.5...@news.randori.com...
Sharyn0761
That aspect really struck me in the psyco chart between Uranus/Mercury, too,
especially in the 1st and 8th.
I was just discussing the quincunx with my good friend, and we both agreed that
it's more important than it gets credit for. We noticed that quincunxes in
synastry charts, especially when the aspects involve, say, Venus/Venus, or
Venus/Mars, Moon/Mars, or Venus/ Mercury or /Sun can result in sexual/romantic
disinterest when other chart factors show real compatability between a couple
and no other reason for such lack of interest. Even the Venus/Mars or Mars/Mars
or Mars/Venus squares and oppositions are much better as far as romantic
compatability is concerned than the quincunxes because, in the language of
classical astrology, with a quincunx between these planets, they don't "see"
each other, and so do not relate at all.
So I wonder if the same thing happens with planets that relate to the mind like
Uranus and Mercury do, you know? If the higher mind, or higher self or psychic
perception, or whatever you take Uranus to represent of the mental nature (I'm
finding it difficult to put my own concept of what facet of the mind Uranus
represents just now), does not relate to the lower conscious mind, then a
psychotic "break" with reality, as well as ongoing psychosis, could be a pretty
likely result. If we look at the quincunx in just a basic way, it's just this
side of the opposition. Oppositions see each other quite clearly, they are face
to face, across the table from each other. But as my friend and I agreed, the
quincunx is like trying to see around a corner, very difficult to do without
some assistance. In the case of the "spot the psycho" chart, that Mercury/SN
1st had no assistance from anything at all, which also struck me as
significant.
And with the serial killers like Dahmer and Gacy, it always seems to involve
the Moon, too, because they are always emotionally stunted as well as mentally
defective. (Can anyone say "Norman Bates?" <G>) Dahmer kept his victims' body
parts for company. He wanted to possess them and control them and keep them
with him. Most of the murders were committed because he simply couldn't let
them leave him. Of course he got more and more twisted as time went on, using
cannibalism and that kind of thing in his fantasy mind play, but it seems it
all started because he was emotionally needy. He often interacted with his
victims as if they were still alive, and in fact tried to drug them at first,
but the one guy woke up and resisted so he resorted to murder. He said that he
really would have preferred them alive, but that he could only control them
completely if they were dead, so he had to settle for that. Even the
cannibalism was a way to keep them all the more closer. He eventually believed
that eating parts of his victims would make them a part of him (and bring them
even closer to him) which is actually a very ancient belief and practice.
Add that kind of stunted, emotional immaturity to an extremely egocentric
personality, a mind that can't connect to or "see" reality or basic human
values and ideals, and virtually non-existant impulse control, and you have a
recipe for a serial murderer.
You know, Dahmer's mother lived in the Fresno area, where I lived before I
moved, and I remember after Dahmer was caught that there were lots of stories
about her. She wouldn't talk much, and went into total seclusion before long,
but there was so much speculation about her. Of course, I think we always want
to know about the mothers of people like this, and I think mostly because even
non-astrologers sense the twisted Moon problems with these guys. Everyone who
worked with her, or knew her and the family said, "Oh, she was a good mother,
they were a normal family, we just don't understand." But I always suspected
that Jeffrey, at least, didn't quite see her that way, u know? She worked full
time, I know that, so it may have just been her absence that was so damaging to
his already delicate balance, but I know that she and Dahmer's father had long
term marital problems, and that rumors of physical and emotional abuse went
circling around among those that knew the family when Jeffrey was little.
He was certainly an obsessed whacko with gruesome Plutonic thoughts as you say,
and his sexual identity was a major factor in his problems, for sure. But he
was a pretty sad case, too. I know it sounds strange for me to say such things,
but most serial murderers and child killers and torturers are souless
creatures, and they either delight in and get a rush of sexual satisfaction
from the pain and suffering they cause, or it means absolutely nothing to them.
To me, this is one distinction between evil and simple mental illness, and I
know many disagree with me there, but it's how I feel about it. Dahmer never
tortured his victims; in fact, he always drugged them so that they felt no pain
at all and the ones he murdered were the ones he felt he "loved" and wanted to
keep with him. In a weird way, he was a very gentle person. In the end, he
wanted to die because he said he just couldn't stop himself, nor could he face
what he had done to so many people. Even though everything in him had gone
haywire to the max, a part of him watched what he did in genuine horror, and
yet could not stop what was happening. When he was killed in prison, I thought
it was a merciful thing for him, and I prayed for his soul. I do think Rog has
a good point: the seeds of this kind of madness are in every chart, whether we
want to face that or not; the only difference is in our emotional
backgrounds/early conditioning/nurturing, and in our strength and ability to
adapt in a successful, accepted manner. And IMHO, that is what we see that
seems to separate the charts we judge as those that might belong to a psycho
and any other chart.
<< Subject: Re: "Spot the Psycho" test
From: "Heather" fempr...@nospammhotmail.com
Date: Tue, Jan 16, 2001 7:21 PM
Message-id: <fl596.3496$tq1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
>>
Sharyn (www.dreamwater.net/acarchives)
Ray Murphy
----------
In article <JnY86.1211$yew8.5...@news.randori.com>, "Pedantus"
<rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote:
{....................
..................}
>I remember being
>able to see people as native's of a given Sun sign, then as Sun signs
>with probable a Asc. (guessing Sun signs birth times within an hour or
>so was such a big hit at parties...:) Then, quite suddenly, the large
>simplistic categories were gone, the ability to see Sun signs and Asc.
>just evaporated....distinct individual human being simply appeared for
>the first time in my life and replaced most of my stereotypical
>expectations.
REPLY: Me too. From memory it was about a year after I began my
serious study of Astrology that the picking of Sun Signs became hard,
but it was replaced by the ability to pick women's Mars.
Eventually (after picking the Mars Sign instead of the Sun Sign) I
switched over to picking that - but the embarrassment in the meantime
nearly made me stop it altogether!
A year or two later it became "picking the stronger things" in a
chart, but of course that's not a very valuable asset in "cocktail
consciousness" but can be handy for picking unknown ascendants and
learning how some aspects etc can be stronger than we had imagined.
> In all fairness, I do not see how an unbiased sampling of charts
>could ever be the basis for a successful demonstration of astrology's
>ability to "pick the psycho". In truth each natal is a potential
>psychopath who has, as a majority seems to do, fortunately adapted to
>his/her environment in a socially acceptable manner. Every person seems
>a case of "there but the grace of God, go I.." Fortunately, natal chart
>s refer best to the specific, symbolic, details of one's more unique,
>unpredictable, adaptations.
>
>Rog
REPLY: In such tests we have to be careful about the selection of
charts to go with the "notorious person" because the symbols in charts
could easily be biased *towards* the astrologer and less easily biased
*against* the astrologer.
For instance what sort of ingredients could we put in a chart for a
world famous Chef or Deep-sea Diver?
I'm sure that the Perspicacious Pedantus Prolificus could find an
imaginery chart (with a real date) that describes one of those two
occupations admirably. The language of the chart would describe the
language of the individual.
Ray
Kwaw
> could ever be the basis for a successful demonstration of astrology's
> ability to "pick the psycho". In truth each natal is a potential
> psychopath who has, as a majority seems to do, fortunately adapted to
> his/her environment in a socially acceptable manner. Every person seems
> a case of "there but the grace of God, go I.." Fortunately, natal chart
> s refer best to the specific, symbolic, details of one's more unique,
> unpredictable, adaptations.
>
While the pathological potential that she finally came to realise is easily
identifiable in her chart that is not to say that the outcome was
inevitable. I do not know anything about this person but a previous poster
mentioned that at one point she had seriously considered becoming a Nun. And
indeed this could just as easily be the chart of a very devoted and
dedicated Nun as of a psychopathic murderer!
For example Saturn, the occupational 'ruler' of Monks and Nuns, is conjunct
MC and its dispositor the Sun is conjunct Jupiter in Sagitarius - indicative
of an interest in religion. Saturn/Moon conjunct shows a capacity for
unquestioning and self-effacing devotion; of valuing order, conformity,
obedience, duty, obligation and a Spartan lifestyle.
Saturn/Moon square Mercury gives tremendous (though often misplaced)
loyalty, with readiness to defend those loyalties. A capacity for
self-sacrifice and discipline which allied with religious tendencies finds
strict religious Orders attractive.
Scorpio rising for those with religious tendencies will add mystical
aspirations, a yearning for a personal relationship and communion with the
divine which in olden days may have been sought through years of ascetic
self-denial, prayer, meditation and discipline. In the heady decade of the
sixties however drugs were held to promise instant realization of mystical
conciousness; and it is here perhaps that time, place and circumstance
weighed down the scales that were to unbalance her and unleash her brutal
potential.
A close 'hard' aspect between Mercury and Uranus is often associated with
fragile mental health. With the quincunx I believe even more so. Many
years of keeping a personal transit diary has convinced me that the
tradtional association between the quincunx and health is correct. What
abuse she may have suffered in her life and the effect this may have had on
her mental stability I do not know, though her chart indicates the
possibility of such. That drugs would prove too heavy a burden on her
fragile mental health, as indicated by Mercury quincunx Uranus, I am
certain.
When hard Mercury/Uranus aspects are 'activated' it tends toward the
delusional and bizarre ideas arise of grandiose conceit. In a religious type
this is likely to take the form of believing oneself to be 'chosen' and on a
mission from God. Unfortunately by this time her 'god' was Charles Manson.
Kwaw
Pedantus
"Heather" <fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fl596.3496$tq1.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Rog why were you simply looking for violence? Heck I've seen
> a slew of violent charts but I never thought they'd actually murder
> because I felt the native basically knew right from wrong. Their
> thinking(mercury) was clear and not twisted.
"Twisted" is probably more a Uranus matter...:) But, yes, if only
because Mercury is central to decision making, it would seem a necessary
part of any formula for choosing to act on impuses in a conscious
manner.
I did not really put any effort into comparing the charts. I
intended to convert them into charts I could actually read, but I found
no data available. (After a few decades, dyslexia is actually
painful...:)
I have also tried many variations of the 5-chart-alternative quiz,
whatever, and as yet have found no way to remove stereotypes, and all
kinds of biases.
You are right, Heather; a latent potential for intense aggression
is a very normal human trait when compared to the smaller number of
individuals who are obssessed by a persistent and intense curiosity, or
those who are capable of long term emotional distancing.
> Serial Murder in my view is a head trip...something that lies in
waiting
> till it's activated..
Yeah...a shortcut to attempted Selfhood incidentally presents
itself...:) The natal chart seems a kind of (perhaps unfairly) imposed
formula for individual existence...a means to achieving a convincing
sense of "I am" (says the Aries Asc of the Leo native...no bias here:)
It all does seem a matter of actually trying to be true to one's own
nature. Nature is not actually "warped"; only its *image* as projected
by the native seems a distortion of nature's guiding/dictating
self-similar potentials. All behavior seems geared toward expressing
something particular, an individual-defining activity, which apparently
also has the feel of a mythic, god-sent, illumination of the Self. The
trick of finding satisfying adaptations is to somehow please the gods
(appease the impulses of the algebraic formula) while confining one's
behaviors to a socially restricted range of alternatives. Like Adler, I
assume that when the ego is weak (probably due to a failed
socialization) is easy to be seduced by the idea that human morality is
merely optional component and not a necessary task of Self
actualization.
>basically an unhealthy mind that then employs violence
> as their slave for the head games that are playing vicious volleyball
> in their mind. Look at Jeff Dahmer. (Mr. let me cut up your body
> parts and do god knows what with them) I always go for mercury...
> he has mercury in Gemini
Yes, it seems more a matter of unbridled curiosity and completely
selfish desires; I bumped into Dahmer while contemplating the role of
Sun 0* Gemini concerning the invention of Sherlock Holmes ala Arthur
Conan Doyle (May 22 1859). I think that also read that Dahmer was
raised without benefit of mother or siblings in a somewhat rural
isolation. Spending way to much time alone, he was fascinated with the
dissection of roadkill and such, his father encouraged it considering it
a laudable interest in biological sciences, whatever. The making of a
Dahmer apparently takes many years of de-sensitizing experiences.
>which is
> in the 8th conjunct the sun and quincunx Neptune while squaring
> Pluto .if I want to widen the orb to 4 degrees, mercury
> is also quincunx Jupiter which would form a yod .There's the
quincunx(es)
> again that I feel creates more mayhem than any square... it's as
> if the native can't reconcile thought processes correctly..one of
> frustration if you will and incredible tension. I have no doubts this
guy was an obsessed
> wacko that thought gruesome Plutonic thoughts... what's more gruesome
> than chopping up body parts? Probably the penis in his case since
> he did it to men.(because I think he had a problem with his own
> sexual identity) Add to that a moon (wide conj.with mars)
> square saturn and you have an emotional mess with warped thinking.
Kudos, [ I see Pedantus here smiles, satisfied with your emphasis on
"quincunx(es)"] One must see Dahmer (or anyone) as promoting their own
sense of existence through their individually devised symbolic rituals
(which can be anything). Why does Dahmer eat only an ocassion fillet of
bicep, and not a more tender cut marbled with fat? Well, for Dahmer it
is *important* to conjure the Self via the anatomy of *self-similar*
Gemini. Natal Jupiter, as you point out must be part of the formula, as
a symbol for Force or Strength. Natal Mars, 8* Aries is, in part, for
Dahmer a compulsion to create a "sexual robot" by drilling a hole in the
upper forhead of his victims because Mars' potential expressions are
*inextricably linked* to Neptune in Scorpio and Mercury/Sun in Gemini,
via that close inconjuntion that you cite above.
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/dahmer_j.gif
Now see this drawing by my stepson which shows Jupiter in Gemini as
abstract "bicep" of sorts...as well see Mars as sharp teeth and a fang:
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/sneeze1.gif
People used to believe the soul was expelled from the body
momentarilly during a sneeze; I see no reason to argue with that when I
look at this "sneeze". I did see something of a soul being presented in
this spontaneous drawing....a Freudian parapraxis?
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/neilmrg2.gif
>
> The funny thing
> was the people that knew him said he was a very pleasant (Libra
> rising) guy. Meanwhile he was one of the sickest people on the face
> of the planet. The sick serial murderers are different than the crime
> of passion murderers that catch their spouse with another person..
> that's a reaction temper taking place... not someone that plots how
> to stalk their prey and slice them to bits many times over for years.
The camoflage coloring, timidity, and an essential cowardice of
life's more successful predators certainly seems the result of natural
selection over the eons.
>
>
> Take a look at Hitler's chart sometime... he was just a cruel SOB
> but a different kind of murderer. Or John Wayne Gacy... another
> mercurial nightmare of a chart serial killer that thankfully was
executed
> years ago in Chicago. That guy was really sick... he was arrested
> on suspicion of killing a young man and then they found dozens
> more buried in his basement.
Unfortunately Gacy seemed to be inspired by, or copying the acts of
Dean Coryll, from some fives year earlier.
>
> if anyone's interested in serial killer sick minds:
I can't help but be interested; an acquintance of mine was sentenced
to 81/2- 25 years because the District Attorney, with whom I am also on
a first name basis, believed that society must be protected from a Halm
(below) as a "potential" John Wayne Gacy. I can understand that DA's
often feel personally responsible to the point of being preemptive in
such matters. So, is this the chart of a *would be* serial killer in the
style of Gacy of Coryll? How much would we bet on our being right?
What might we feel in the presence of a 6'4, 360lb, self-righteous,
vegetarian-pacifist-bisexual with a compulsive appetite for sex with
male teens?
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/Halm_H.gif
Gacy and Coryll:
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/gacy_jw.gif
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/coryll_d.gif
>
> Jeff Dahmer
> 5-21-60
> Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA
> 4:34 p.m.
>
> John Wayne Gacy
> 3-17-42
> Chicago, Illinois USA
> 12:20 a.m.
>
> Heather
Try seeing Picasso, for instance, as one who performs his natal
chart pattern of impluses instinctively, ritualistically...(as above so
below?) Here is a disputed unsigned drawing that seems to be something
Picasso *committed*...:)
http://web.org.uk/picasso/picasso.html
A comparison I made 3-4 years ago, (not knowing at the time that there
even was a controversy) now seems to be a kind of astrological forensic
examination...:)
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/picasso_1.html
Rog
Ray Murphy
Kwaw has just written some excellent astrology.
Ray
----------
In article <m%h96.39906$0d.44...@nnrp4.clara.net>, "Kwaw"
Pete Phoenix
>So is everyone ready to tell why they picked the chart they did? (We
all agree
>it was #3, right?) I'm assuming everyone had time to play who wanted to
(Pete,
>I'm especially interested to know what the indicators you mentioned
were.)
Hi you:-)
well, you know, it was a long time ago that I did the research, but as
luck would have it, I saved my lecture notes. ( I ALWAYS do that, even
after years! LOL! )
I based my astrological indicators on the research done by an eminent
criminal psychologist whose name escapes me ( so much for being eminent!
hehe...) He wrote a book called "Without Conscience", which was a study
of psychopathic behaviour harvested from 25 years in the profession and
hundreds of interviews with the inmates of the several penal
institutions where he practiced.
He eventually came up with what he called a "Psychopathy Checklist", an
index of various indicators of psychopathology. He would use this
checklist when interviewing the inmates, and he came to the interesting
conclusion that 1 in 10 people had pronounced psychopathic tendencies,
and that doesn't mean that they went around wielding a bloody axe,
either! Ha ha, no...simply that one in ten people had what he called a
"cluster" of the indicators of psychopathy woven together. Most of them
are walkin' the streets, too!
He claimed that the most obvious trait of a psychopath was the total
inability to feel any kind of empathy for the victim, or remorse for the
crime.
Astrologically, I see this as being shown by either a lack of water, or
the water element being somehow "skewed", by maybe there being only one
planet - a singleton - in that element,and said planet under serious
stress. Also, I believe a lack of empathy and remorse to be shown by a
weak Saturn. Why? Because Saturn is the planet that teaches us
responsibility. If Saturn is weak ( And by 'weak', I mean weak in the
classical sense: in fall or detriment and afflicted ) then our sense of
'proper behavioural controls' is seriously in danger of being
compromised. Now, I 'm not suggesting that anyone with a weak Saturn is
a potential psychopath, because there are all kinds of other factors to
consider. Like I said, there has to be a "clustering" effect, i.e.
several indicators working together.
However, a chart with a "skewed" water function and a weak Saturn, along
with signs of an egocentric and grandiose personality ( strong Fire,
Sun, Mars or Joop ) would sure make me sit up and take notice!
Take chart No.3:
Mercury is the only planet in water, and it's on the Asc., conjunct the
S.Node, and square a weak Saturn( in Leo, c.f. Adolph Hitler ), which in
turn is conjunct the Moon. I've found that in the charts of Nazi war
criminals, and certain serial killers who weren't Nazis, the Moon is
often afflicted by either Mars or Saturn, in or from Aries, Scorpio or
Capricorn. Here, the Moon is in the sign of the Sun, conjunct Saturn and
widely conjunct Mars. ( Mars is actually conjunct the SO/MO midpoint, so
she is a Martian personality par-excelllence). There is a powerful Fire
element, ( Sun, Jupiter, Moon, Saturn all in fire, MA=SO/MO ), which
indicates an impulsive need for excitement with poor behaviour controls.
Of course, none of this shows that she would resort to murder, only that
she has the classic psychopathic signatures all over the chart, and of
course, the tight quincunx from Mercury to Uranus, showing a thinly
veiled paranoia and mental 'schism': a very strange way of 'making
sense' of everything.
None of the other charts had anything like these indicators grouped
together so "neatly", if you like, so...I plumped for #3....in a
nutshell <ahem!>
Now...would you like the long version? <BG>
C'ya!! :-)
Pete
http://vaultofheaven.homestead.com/index.html
'Do or do not. There is no try' -- Yoda
Heather
with the details of a "filet of bicep" and "drilling through the skull..."
eeeeeek. LOL. Interesting you brought up Picasso... I have never
looked at his chart but I am rather into art myself and what
you can derive about the artist from looking at it. I must admit
that Picasso's work has always disturbed me actually I hate
his art because I find it depressing.I always sensed
that something was not right with him and actually made me wonder if he
was screwed in the head in some way.... just my take on him...
an emotionally fragmented person with a lack of grace.
.. Now... with that said... LOL I am going to go
click on your link and see the chart I have always wondered
about and then come back and continue... be back in a flash ;-)
aaaaaahahahahaha okay I'm back. I obviously can feeeeeel
this guy through his art. no wonder he scares me. <smirk>
but that's my personal emotive reaction to this guy... there
are tons of people that are into Picasso. I now know
why I get a dark feeling whenever I look at his work.
I'm more of a Monet lover. Do you have his chart?
As to your "acquaintance" I'm not sure I follow you... are you
saying he already murdered? hmmm sexual deviance yeah
but murder? really? I guess I goofed... I didn't get that "feel"
with his chart of a serial murderer... but more of someone
that could "lose it" on someone but not sit and plot 27
murders if you get my drift.
Heather
Pedantus <rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote in message news:tsl96.713$DWT8.6...@news.randori.com...
Pedantus
[........]
> As to your "acquaintance" I'm not sure I follow you... are you
> saying he already murdered? hmmm sexual deviance yeah
> but murder? really? I guess I goofed... I didn't get that "feel"
> with his chart of a serial murderer... but more of someone
> that could "lose it" on someone but not sit and plot 27
> murders if you get my drift.
>
> Heather
>
Right again, but it DA's don't see things astrologically...according
to the pop trends of their ilk they *now* see our society's usual stock
of harmless "perverts" as potential serial killers, and send them to
Attica.
Rog
Kwaw
Sharyn0761 <shary...@aol.comXjunk> wrote in message
news:20010116211514...@ng-bd1.aol.com...
>If we look at the quincunx in just a basic way......
'snip' (some very interesting stuff)
For me the 'basic' way of looking at the quincunx is through its association
with the 6th and 8th houses, with sickness and with death. It defines a
line of morbidity whose spectrum goes from obsessive fascination at one end
to evasive repulsion at the other.
Sharyn0761
That day I was talking with my friend about how the actual observation of fixed
stars and planetary positions led ancients to their deliniations of what star
or planet was associated with what thing or event, and how they were very
literal with their judgemnets, like when Mercury was combust, or when a planet
collected light, or how a star at the top of the heavens as Jupiter hit the
horizon was importatnt. They always said that planets in Quincunx don't "see"
each other, and I thought that was interesting in light of the effect of this
aspect in synastry charts, especialy with Moon, Venus and Mars involves in the
aspect.
<< Subject: Re: "Spot the Psycho" test
From: "Kwaw" kw...@mangans.clara.co.uk
Date: Fri, Jan 19, 2001 3:30 PM
Message-id: <RSX96.45585$0d.51...@nnrp4.clara.net>
>>
Sharyn
aam FAQ site: http://www.dreamwater.net/acarchives
"Sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Lewis Carroll
tq
Neptune...@webtv.net
I've always used the terms "an adjustment in attitude or outlook is
called for." I have a yod (a wide one but valid)and I have always gone
to extremes in the areas of life that the House and planets involved in
it. (Mars in Pisces inconj. Pluto in Leo and Neptune in Libra)
Pedantus
<snip>
> I'm more of a Monet lover. Do you have his chart?
>
>
> Heather
>
Heather,
I don't have a birth time for
et..:(
I also do not seem have a feel for which of his paintings could be said to be expressive of Monet the individual, more of a signature than just another experiment in projected Self, whatever. (It just dawned on me that no Scorpio need fear that I personally can actually *see* them.)
I'm attracted to this painting, as its seems useful (but I could easily be deluding myself here).
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/monet_1a.gif
Here's how compare them as projections. I see natal Mars as protruding objects (here with the oscillating scallops of Uranus):
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/monet_mrg1.gif
Taking a wild stab at an approximate birth time:
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/monet_c.gif
I have only just now looked into the matter of whatever impressionism is, and find that the school incidentally acquired its name from a Monet painting in "impressionism's" first showing.
"[.. The first show provoked a storm of abuse from the press and the public, and the critic Louis Leroy mockingly coined the name "impressionist" to describe the group, taking it from Monet's canvas entitled "Impression: Sunrise" (now in the Musee Marmottan, Paris)..]"
http://www.eecs.uic.edu/~ala/history.html
This painting would seem a slightly more conventional kind of clue to an unconscious reference to one's own birth time. It may be more of a signature piece, but I don't pretend to know enough about the man to actually have an informed opinion.
http://www.mezzo-mondo.com/arts/mm/monet/MOC016.html
Rog
Sharyn0761
natch. Here's a bio site if you want to read up
<A HREF="http://www.redrival.com/monet/biography.html">Claude Monet Biography
</A>
<< "Heather" <fempr...@nospammhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:twq96.390$7a4....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
<snip>
> I'm more of a Monet lover. Do you have his chart?
<snip>
> >>
Sharyn
Kwaw
<Neptune...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:22675-3A...@storefull-248.iap.bryant.webtv.net...
>I have a yod (a wide one but valid)and I have always gone
> to extremes in the areas of life that the House and planets involved in
> it. (Mars in Pisces inconj. Pluto in Leo and Neptune in Libra)
>
I envy you your insight into this formation. I too have a Yod (Sun/Aries/1
and Jupiter/Aquarius/11 quincunx Pluto conjunct N.Node in Virgo/6). Pluto is
also the 'string' end of a kite formation, opposite Mercury/Pisces/12 which
is part of a Grand Trine with Mars conjunct Moon/Cancer/4 and
Neptune/Scorpio/8.
As the focal point of both the Yod and Kite I would expect the influence of
that Pluto conjunct N.Node position to be readily apparent but I just can't
relate to it or detect an influence at all. Perhaps I am just not
'advanced' enough to personally perceive or manifest the influence of the
transpersonal planets, as the boy said of the Emperor's new clothes (or
words to that effect, paraphrased slightly).
Kwaw
Neptune...@webtv.net
apparent. Here is how I view the Nodes. The south node is where you or
your soul is coming from. Whatever sign/ house the south node resides in
comes easy for you and you have an abundance of these things at your
disposal be they talents,traits,experience, innate knowledge,whatever.
The toughie is the north node for it is here by sign/house that you have
to do the work so what you have can be of use to you or others. Do you
not "dig deep"'and analyze,scrutinize, and not rest until you understand
things like dreams,psychic phenomena and human psychology at its core?
You could have very easily just drifted with the tide,content with
knowing but not understanding why or how you knew. Your Pluto, north
node conj. COMPELLED you to seek out the answers to the connection
between the conscious/subconscious link to human behavior and mental
vs. physical health. There is a lot more to it thentat,but it is late
and I'm lazy <grin> and MY north node is in Capricorn in the 3rd house,
so putting what I know into words is MY greatest challenge BIG
grin!!!!
Pedantus
"Kwaw" <kw...@mangans.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:nzDb6.58749$0d.69...@nnrp4.clara.net...
Kwaw,
I miss a lot, but having just read this post:
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:59:08 CST
From: Neptune...@webtv.net
Newsgroups: alt.astrology.moderated
Subject: Re: Fatal Fantasy (Attention kwaw)
I went back to read yours of 1/26 (above).
Quoting Kwaw, "I would expect the influence of that Pluto conjunct
N.Node position to be readily apparent but I just can't relate to it or
detect an influence at all. "
Pedantus, (who doesn't exist) whispered in my ear, like the
excitable
nudge that he is--"The color purple! Tell her, the color PURPLE!"
He's a real pain in the rear. But he's right about Pluto and the
color purple,
I think.
Having (imagined that) I've heard his peculiar rap for a third of
century, I intuitively knew that he meant, in his way, that I should
look at Alice Walker, the author of, "The Color Purple". (Why do these
imps from the collective unconscious all seem to insist on riddles
anyway?)
http://www.luminarium.org/contemporary/alicew/
I found Walker's birth data (no time) on the web page above and set
up a solar chart:
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/walker_a1.gif
And, here is what Pedantus was whispering about:
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/walker_a2.gif
Look familiar?...:)
http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/Kwaw.gif
Now, if you insist on asking whatdaheck this means, I'm tired of
taking flack for him, so I suggest you use a (900) number and call the
psycho's hotline. Be sure to ask to speak Pedantus in person...God only
know who you will actually get...:)
Rog...:)
Kwaw
Pedantus <rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote in message news:gGge6.2464> > As
the focal point of both the > Look familiar?...:)
> http://www.geocities.com/pedantus/Kwaw.gif
Nearly right. Not quite. Try:
March 25 1961
05:55am GMT DS(0)
1W31 52N25
Kwaw
Pedantus
Kwaw,
Sorry, for any distortion, Kwaw (for your not one to trifle with,
eh?..heheh..:)
I read these numbers (below) as if they meant to indicate natal chart
houses.
(quoting Kwaw:)
"Grand Trine with Mars conjunct Moon/Cancer/4 and > Neptune/Scorpio/8."
I didn't assume they were superfluous...:)
But, the point of my experience, seems, to be that you projected
three natal in aspect as "qualities" which my intuiting mind decided to
interpret as a prior experience had subconsciously stored away under the
label of "The Color Purple" ...meaning that the natal planets in aspects
as projected by the author of the work *should* yield a striking,
congruity in the planet aspect figuring of the *unknown* chart. I
imagine my delight to see such a congas patterning appear on my screen
when I finally located Walker's approx. birth data and set up a solar
chart.
Kwaw
Pedantus <rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote in message news:gGge6.2464
> Look familiar?...:)
Just took the time to follow all your links and 'GOT' what you mean.
Don't ask me what it means either;)
Cheers
Kwaw
Kwaw
Pedantus <rlsat...@exotrope.net> wrote in message news:ijCe6.1773
> But, the point of my experience, seems, to be that you projected
> three natal in aspect as "qualities" which my intuiting mind decided to
> interpret as a prior experience had subconsciously stored away under the
> label of "The Color Purple" ...meaning that the natal planets in aspects
> as projected by the author of the work *should* yield a striking,
> congruity in the planet aspect figuring of the *unknown* chart. I
> imagine my delight to see such a congas patterning appear on my screen
> when I finally located Walker's approx. birth data and set up a solar
> chart.
>
This reminds me, perhaps erroneously, of the use of astrology as an art of
memory. A practice that goes back at least as far as Metrodorius of Scepsis
and was revived in the Renaissance by such men as Guilo Camillo, Giordano
Bruno, Albertus Magnus,etc.
The theory goes (according to my limited understanding) that by assigning
(consciously memorizing by a process of interternal writing/visualizing) the
nature of all things to eternal places (the planets, signs of the zodiac,
their decans and degrees) one's memory becomes 'magickal' through contact
with eternal realities; and hence becomes not only a tool of reminiscence
but of investigation.
While anyone of reasonable intelligence can learn the technique, the
'melancholic' type personality was presumed to have a natural capacity for
this type of memory. As Aristotle in 'Problemata' wrote:
"Of those who are accidentally melancholic through a mixture of the sanguine
and choleric temperaments. Phantasmata move such men more than others
because they are most strongly imprinted in the dry of the back part of the
brain; and the heat of the melancholic vapours move the phantasmata. This
mobility confers reminiscence which is investigation. The conservation in
the dry holds many phantasmata out of which reminiscence is moved."
Just a piece of (probably useless) information. It just came to mind and I
felt the urge to share it.
Kwaw
Pedantus
Kwaw,
Thanks...:) <checking my black bile percentage...hmmmm>
In seeking a parallel explanation, for myself, I mumbled the
following:
The "improved" memory that results would seem a by-product of the
meditation exercise--the time spent studying (or ruminating) on
associations was doubly productive due to the conscious employment of
previously established long term memory slots (whatever) being used to
file more novel input. Thus analysis, synthesis, and memorization
occurred in the mind of the more reclusive melancholic dweeb while all
the jocks were partying ...:)
Being that intuition seems primarily a matter retrieving life's
accumulated experience from the personal and the collective unconscious,
our recalling complex data packets (whatever) probably works better *if*
the data stored the personal unconscious does *not* conflict or
contradict the collective unconscious "memories". The organization of
our unconscious memory is *perhaps* more like the organization of
astrology, thus it better reflects the structure of our intuition's more
naturally evolved memory map. So, any synthesis of these two
unconscious memory stores, personal and collective, would seem much more
likely to yield flashes of broader, more numinous seeming, insight or
"reminiscence". And, perhaps, these could appear before the mind less
encumbered the clumsy baggage of culturally acquired linguistic
equivalents--sort of like running a program using machine code
operations as opposed to high level language codes, I guess.
Or perhaps, quite simply, Melancholia = Saturn = Conservation, in the
broadest sense of the term.
Rog...:)