Google Groups no longer supports new Usenet posts or subscriptions. Historical content remains viewable.
Dismiss

I don't get it ...

0 views
Skip to first unread message

Paul Reeder

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 1:58:09 AM9/12/01
to
Hey all,

"Ixtlilton" <ixtl...@post.com> wrote:

> I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> harmonious relationship to both planets.

Yes but its also true that Mercury entered the shadow zone of its upcoming
retrograde this morning.

There are interesting clues in the mundane charts of the US as well.....

Paul Reeder


SeaGtGruff

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 2:49:23 AM9/12/01
to
Ixtlilton (ixtl...@post.com) wrote:

> I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> harmonious relationship to both planets.

Don't forget the terrorists' point of view. Mercury in harmonious aspects to
the Saturn-Pluto opposition could reflect the obvious *success* of the people
who planned and executed these terroristic actions.

Looking at the chart, I see Saturn opposite Pluto, which is a little over 2
degrees past exactitude; and also Mars opposite the true Lunar North Node,
which is applying at a little over a 2.5-degree orb. Neither of those aspects
are very close for these events, because I would expect them to be within a day
or two of being exact if they were "causal."

But when I look at the midpoints, I see Chiron square the Mars/Saturn midpoint
(orb 0:02:24), as well as Chiron square the Pluto/Node midpoint (orb 0:10:47).
I might note that I'm actually looking at the chart for American Airlines
Flight 11's takeoff (7:59 a.m. EDT), so the orbs are for those positions, but
the positions wouldn't have changed very much by around 9 a.m. EDT.

So even though the Saturn-Pluto opposition wasn't very close, and was being
well-aspected by Mercury, it was part of a pretty close midpoint picture
involving Chiron. In the standard midpoint format, this would be written as
follows:

Chiron = Mars/Saturn = Pluto/Node

The Sun was also closely opposing the Saturn/Chiron midpoint. And Pluto was
closely sesquisquare the Uranus/Node midpoint. There were other midpoint
configurations, but the ones I've listed seem especially indicative of these
events.

By the way, the attack on the USS Cole (and on the British Embassy the
following morning) took place during the Jupiter-Pluto opposition. And I would
point out that even though Pluto is currently in the tropical sign of
Sagittarius (religion), it's in the *sidereal* sign of Scorpio. One astrology
book suggested that World War III might begin while Pluto was in (tropical)
Scorpio, but it looks like it might actually be while Pluto is in *sidereal*
Scorpio (if there ever is a World War III). Due to the current difference
between the tropical and sidereal zodiacs, Pluto in sidereal Scorpio of course
roughly corresponds to Pluto in tropical Sagittarius, which does suggest a
*religious* war-- which is what most of us probably expect World War III to be.

I was at a hospital helping one of our customers "go live" with our new
software system, and the employees began talking about the events just moments
after we arrived (just after 9 a.m.). It was very difficult to stay focused on
my work as the news kept getting worse, with all of the employees' personal
radios giving details of the horror. I really wanted to just go home and sit
in front of the television all day, but I didn't get to see any of the film or
really listen to the news reports until I got home much later (just before 9
p.m.). I can't imagine what it would have been like to be in one of the
planes, or in the towers, or just on the streets watching helplessly.

The first thing that popped into my mind this morning was that it was like a
movie. Do you think terrorists get some of their ideas from movies, or do you
think movie writers are just very good at imagining what terrorists might do?
I suspect it's probably a little of both.

Michael Rideout

Beep

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 9:02:32 AM9/12/01
to
On Wed, 12 Sep 2001 00:49:23 CST, seagt...@aol.com (SeaGtGruff)
wrote:

>Ixtlilton (ixtl...@post.com) wrote:
>
>> I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
>> crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
>> something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
>> obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
>> harmonious relationship to both planets.
>
>Don't forget the terrorists' point of view. Mercury in harmonious aspects to
>the Saturn-Pluto opposition could reflect the obvious *success* of the people
>who planned and executed these terroristic actions.

Somehow, that makes my heart almost stop...


>
>Looking at the chart, I see Saturn opposite Pluto, which is a little over 2
>degrees past exactitude; and also Mars opposite the true Lunar North Node,
>which is applying at a little over a 2.5-degree orb. Neither of those aspects
>are very close for these events, because I would expect them to be within a day
>or two of being exact if they were "causal."
>
>But when I look at the midpoints, I see Chiron square the Mars/Saturn midpoint
>(orb 0:02:24), as well as Chiron square the Pluto/Node midpoint (orb 0:10:47).
>I might note that I'm actually looking at the chart for American Airlines
>Flight 11's takeoff (7:59 a.m. EDT), so the orbs are for those positions, but
>the positions wouldn't have changed very much by around 9 a.m. EDT.
>
>So even though the Saturn-Pluto opposition wasn't very close, and was being
>well-aspected by Mercury, it was part of a pretty close midpoint picture
>involving Chiron. In the standard midpoint format, this would be written as
>follows:
>
>Chiron = Mars/Saturn = Pluto/Node

I never though Chiron could be THIS important.

>
>The Sun was also closely opposing the Saturn/Chiron midpoint. And Pluto was
>closely sesquisquare the Uranus/Node midpoint. There were other midpoint
>configurations, but the ones I've listed seem especially indicative of these
>events.
>
>By the way, the attack on the USS Cole (and on the British Embassy the
>following morning) took place during the Jupiter-Pluto opposition. And I would
>point out that even though Pluto is currently in the tropical sign of
>Sagittarius (religion), it's in the *sidereal* sign of Scorpio. One astrology
>book suggested that World War III might begin while Pluto was in (tropical)
>Scorpio, but it looks like it might actually be while Pluto is in *sidereal*
>Scorpio (if there ever is a World War III). Due to the current difference
>between the tropical and sidereal zodiacs, Pluto in sidereal Scorpio of course
>roughly corresponds to Pluto in tropical Sagittarius, which does suggest a
>*religious* war-- which is what most of us probably expect World War III to be.

I've always dreaded Pluto in Cap for some reason. I don't know why.


>
>I was at a hospital helping one of our customers "go live" with our new
>software system, and the employees began talking about the events just moments
>after we arrived (just after 9 a.m.). It was very difficult to stay focused on
>my work as the news kept getting worse, with all of the employees' personal
>radios giving details of the horror. I really wanted to just go home and sit
>in front of the television all day, but I didn't get to see any of the film or
>really listen to the news reports until I got home much later (just before 9
>p.m.). I can't imagine what it would have been like to be in one of the
>planes, or in the towers, or just on the streets watching helplessly.
>
>The first thing that popped into my mind this morning was that it was like a
>movie. Do you think terrorists get some of their ideas from movies, or do you
>think movie writers are just very good at imagining what terrorists might do?
>I suspect it's probably a little of both.

This was like a very bad movie.

Even the photography did not seem real.


--
email address: beep at west dot net
Rheumatic Disease info: http://www.silcom.com/~sblc
Newsgroup rescue mission: Please ask your isp for
alt.fan.beep! Яллю

jpeterowen

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 9:03:50 AM9/12/01
to
Additionally, Mars was within a degree of the point of the last solar
eclipse, and the Moon entered Cancer and moved directly opposite this
point. The eclipse itself seemed filled with portent at the time that
it occurred, but nothing happened back then. Yet yesterday, the moon
touching the point of the eclipse triggered the event that I had
expected back when the eclipse occurred.

This is why I have a difficult time with astrology. It's really very
complicated. Anyway, it is if you try to foresee events like the
tragedy that happened yesterday.

Additionally, yesterday Saturn was exactly opposite the fixed star
Sarin, which has to do with "those who hang from great heights" and
Pluto was within a degree of the fixed star Rastaban.

JPO

|ntruder

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 7:56:39 PM9/12/01
to
seagt...@aol.com (SeaGtGruff) wrote in message news:<20010912014756...@mb-cf.aol.com>...

> Ixtlilton (ixtl...@post.com) wrote:
>
> > I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> > crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> > something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> > obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> > harmonious relationship to both planets.
>

The question is how come thant nobody predicted the event? We used
to predict quakes. We cannot possibly scan for every Mercury rising.
It rose
the other day, too.

http://puck.dhs.org/reports/america

Ray Murphy

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 7:58:31 PM9/12/01
to

----------
In article <213bedc4.0109...@posting.google.com>,
jpete...@aol.com (jpeterowen) wrote:


>Additionally, Mars was within a degree of the point of the last solar
>eclipse, and the Moon entered Cancer and moved directly opposite this
>point. The eclipse itself seemed filled with portent at the time that
>it occurred, but nothing happened back then. Yet yesterday, the moon
>touching the point of the eclipse triggered the event that I had
>expected back when the eclipse occurred.

RM: In relation to the predicting the most likely events under Solar
eclipses, I periodically talk about taking note of what Mars was
doing before the eclipse, ie: what events occurred when Mars was
conjunct or opposite the eclipse point.
This simple method provides good clues a lot of the time.
I haven't seen many examples of this happening *after* eclipses, but
is interesting that you've mentioned it.
This now leads me to think that a key to this tragedy could be found
in the degree of the eclipse.

The Gulf war for example, began *exactly* on the eclipse at 25CP20 on
15th Jan., 1991 - and I think from memory that this was on the natal
Saturn of the Iraqi leader. A woman in our local astrology group
actually predicted the Gulf War would be most likely to begin at that
time before our Christmas break-up meeting at least a month
beforehand.

In view of this, I would be looking for charts of people which were
activated by conjunctions of that eclipse.


>
>This is why I have a difficult time with astrology. It's really very
>complicated. Anyway, it is if you try to foresee events like the
>tragedy that happened yesterday.

One of my most frequently used systems is to simply look at the
position of Mars for important events, and then speculate about about
"further developments" when Mars reaches that point again (or the
opposite point).
I do the same thing with SU, ME + VE, and watch out for exact
"interchanges" between any of those 4 planets.
In this particular tragedy I will (later) be doing a chart for Sept
11, and "winding it backwards" to key dates in U.S. recent history.
[The last 12-18 months].

This same system should be used to predict the most likely dates for
future events that *will* stem from these atrocious terrorist acts. I
imagine there will be half a dozen of those dates at least.
Basically what I'm talking about here is "event charts" but my
personal interpretation of event charts deviates from the normal
interpretation to some extent - whereby the symbology is basically
ignored to a large extent, and that "related events" could occur -
which tend to be simply events "dealing with" the original event.
(This involves for example: fixing up the original event; retaliating
against the event; remembering the event; reversing the event; etc.).

The above system can often be refined if the charts of any key players
are activated in significant ways on the same dates.

Further refinement (for guessing future dates) can be made by doing a
comparison between the angular separation of planets on an event date
- with some future date. This system can mean looking ahead several or
more years, and while not being any better than "chance", it can still
be a valuable tool. For example I would be looking at dates when Mars
is at the same distance from an outer planet as it was for the first
date (but on the other side of it). [This is very common in the case
of wars I have noticed]. Look at Pearl Harbor and Hiroshima for
example - but that's only one of many.

>
>Additionally, yesterday Saturn was exactly opposite the fixed star
>Sarin, which has to do with "those who hang from great heights" and
>Pluto was within a degree of the fixed star Rastaban.

RM: We can always find things like this and it's a good idea to
mention them or store the information, but I would imagine that most
are simply coincidence and would not normally have been used in
predictive work.
>
>JPO

Ray
P.S. The terrorism *will* be dealt with - (everyone knows that) but
let's see if we astrologers can pick the key dates in advance.


Edvins Augusts

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 8:13:08 PM9/12/01
to

Ixtlilton wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes


>
> I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> harmonious relationship to both planets.

Have no fear about the role of the Sun, Moon and Planets in even this
horrible event. Here is a thought. This disaster was caused by
terrorists who chose their own day and time. I would suggest there was
some previous day, perhaps very close to the exact opp or when another
planet 'triggered' the opp, when the plans for this horrific terrorist
act were put into effect. That moment, when a few conspirators were
talking to each other cell phones or around a table somewhere, and put all
the final details into place, was the time that was astrologically
sensitive, not the "artificial" time which they selected. The most
likely time this planning session took place and final plans were agreed
upon was indeed when the Saturn--Pluto opposition WAS exact, or set-off
by transit.

This criminal series of acts of war took time to get organized
Evidently, one lot of terrorists came down ot Boston from Maine, and
probably Canada/Montreal just previous. It took several days to put
everything into place. The reservations may have been made quite a while
previously, since last-minute plane tickets are so much more expensive and
so all 4 terorist flights could have been synchronized.

Another thing I noticed in the L.A. quake on the day previous to the
terrorism was the oncoming exact conjunction of transiting Mars and the
South Lunar Node in two degrees Capricorn.. Not that it is necessarily
involved, but I have been going back through history, via Ephemeris, to
see how Mars and the "Tail of the Dragon" have interacted in the past
during various crises.

Haven't been able to find my copy of Marc Penfield's "Horoscopes of the
Western Hemisphere" in which N.Y.C's "natal" chart is given, a chart
which works very well in chart comparisons with famous personalities who
"made it big" in New York in the past, and which is therefore, likely
accurate. Transits and particularly, transits over the N.Y.C. chart ought
to be more significant than merely transits per se at the day and time of
the disaster

Best to everyone. I know this is such a difficult, shocked, angry time
for everyone now!

[After un-glueing myself from 2 TV sets for the past 30 hours...] --e.a.


Edvins Augusts

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 8:16:27 PM9/12/01
to

Ixtlilton wrote:

> x-no-archive: yes
>
> I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> harmonious relationship to both planets.

I hate to say so, (upon reflection), but Mercury, being a "neutral"
planet, rather than a benefic, may have even, as the "winged God" of
communication, facilitated the terrorist action through harmoniously
aspecting both Saturn and Pluto from the Ascendant to make the terrorist
flights "successful" -- in the terms of the horrific thing they were
attempting, well-symbolized indeed by Saturn opp Pluto. I hope I'm
wrong, I don't like to think that Mercury would be capable of such a
thing. Although it was emphasizing the Sat-Plu opp, which certainly was
capable of such a thing!

John Roth

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 8:38:36 PM9/12/01
to

"jpeterowen" <jpete...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:213bedc4.0109...@posting.google.com...

I did a couple of charts yesterday, using my current favorite US chart,
the late Rick Houck's High Five chart. I'll probably put it into some kind
of coherent article sometime, but the high point is transiting Mars and
Uranus making a Yod to High5 Mercury - orb is 22 arc-minutes. A quick
glance didn't show anything in either the secondaries or tertiaries.

There's also an interesting relationship with the June 21st solar eclipse,
since the eclipse Sun was right between the High5 tropical and precessed
Sun positions. Directing either way using a month for a degree by
either solar arc or right ascension leaves several days leeway.

For those of you who don't know this chart (and I assume most
don't) it's set for 11:55 AM EST (as close as I could get Astrolog
to the actual LMT given by Rick) on June 19, 1776. Rick claimed he
knew of absolutely nothing significant on this day - he found it by
working tertiary progressed stations and eclipses backwards. It's
close to (but not exactly on) the time midpoint between when the
Lee-Adams resolution was brought up in Congress (June 6) and
the vote for independence (July 2). That may mean something.

The symbolism is exact - Mars for an attack, Uranus
for sudden, unexpected and highly innovative, and Mercury as the
ruler of trade being the recipient.

Since this is a Yod, with the mobile planet being Mars, it's likely to be
a five day wonder.

The solar Eclipse on the natal Sun represents a "pattern interruption"
to our self-concept as a people - in this case, somehow being
invulnerable to world opinion. We haven't had a war on US
territory since 1812, after all. (The civil war doesn't count - that
was us doing it to ourselves.)

All for now.

John Roth

Edvins Augusts

unread,
Sep 12, 2001, 10:22:33 PM9/12/01
to

John Roth wrote:

What do you have in mind who say "it's likely to be a five day wonder." That
the terrorist bombings will be quickly forgotten? Or that there will be a
swift response by the U.S.and "it'll be over soon."

Penny Hurd

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 12:10:23 AM9/13/01
to
Saturn, by nature, works late.
Ingress charts for Washington, DC, are very interesting.

John Roth

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 9:07:26 AM9/13/01
to

"Edvins Augusts" <mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B9FF565...@earthlink.net...

Neither one. I was simply refering to the fact that Mars will be out of orb
of the configuration in a few days time. It's likely that the actual
terrorist
activity will be contained within that time (actually, it looks like it's
been
contained quite well already - the channeling session on the event tonight
gave lots of details that haven't been made public - and some of them may
never be made public.)

The actual repercussions will be felt for quite a while. At best, it may
well
help to balance some of our national karma for arrogant and rather
self-centered
international action over the past century or so. It may also help bring us
together, and may just get some international agreement on how to handle
terrorists short of all out war on the countries harboring same.

Remember that the configuration is a yod - sometimes called the "Finger of
God" aspect, ocassionally mentioned as the finger that God showed to Job.

Elsewhere in this thread someone mentioned the Pluto - Saturn opposition.
That's currently at 12 Sag (Pluto) and 14 Gem (Saturn), conjunct the
High 5 Venus at 14 Gemini, with an orb of about 13'. Venus in this
case is clearly money and the financial system, with Saturn indicating
restriction, and Pluto in opposition being so blatently obvious that it
doesn't
need any additional comment. This ranks as the single largest financial
disaster in history - the direct, secondary and tertiary effects will be
felt
for quite some time, although the rebuilding will probably pick up the
economy in the long term (late this year, early next year).

> > The solar Eclipse on the natal Sun represents a "pattern interruption"
> > to our self-concept as a people - in this case, somehow being
> > invulnerable to world opinion. We haven't had a war on US
> > territory since 1812, after all. (The civil war doesn't count - that
> > was us doing it to ourselves.)

John Roth


John Roth

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 9:08:43 AM9/13/01
to

"Edvins Augusts" <mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B9FCB69...@earthlink.net...

>
>
> Ixtlilton wrote:
>
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> > crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> > something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> > obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> > harmonious relationship to both planets.
>
> Have no fear about the role of the Sun, Moon and Planets in even this
> horrible event. Here is a thought. This disaster was caused by
> terrorists who chose their own day and time. I would suggest there was
> some previous day, perhaps very close to the exact opp or when another
> planet 'triggered' the opp, when the plans for this horrific terrorist
> act were put into effect. That moment, when a few conspirators were
> talking to each other cell phones or around a table somewhere, and put all
> the final details into place, was the time that was astrologically
> sensitive, not the "artificial" time which they selected. The most
> likely time this planning session took place and final plans were agreed
> upon was indeed when the Saturn--Pluto opposition WAS exact, or set-off
> by transit.

I beg to disagree strongly. The time at which the conspiracy was organized
is obviously critical - for the unfolding of the events of the enterprise,
however,
events of this magnitude will show up in the chart of the native - providing
you have the right chart! I'd like to see some discussion of this from
people
who advocate other US charts - mine is somewhat esoteric, although the
three aspects I've mentioned so far in two posts seem to be rather
blatently obvious.

Ixtliton's problem is that he just looked at the transits. Mercury rising
is highly significant - but only in relation to the **correct** national
chart,
where it can be seen as the significator of commerce. It can also be read
as a news event.

> This criminal series of acts of war took time to get organized
> Evidently, one lot of terrorists came down ot Boston from Maine, and
> probably Canada/Montreal just previous. It took several days to put
> everything into place. The reservations may have been made quite a while
> previously, since last-minute plane tickets are so much more expensive and
> so all 4 terorist flights could have been synchronized.

Channeled information - 13 teams, only four of which got onto a plane
and off the ground. The lockdown of the air transport system prevented the
others from getting into action, and you can believe that the authorities
have
been scanning passenger lists looking for known terrorist sympathizers. The
plane that crashed was the one that was targeted at the White House. They
had also targeted Boston and Philedelphia.

This thing was organized very thoroughly and very pervasively. What's on
the national news isn't even the tip of the iceberg - it's just a vague
rumor
that there is an iceberg!

> Haven't been able to find my copy of Marc Penfield's "Horoscopes of the
> Western Hemisphere" in which N.Y.C's "natal" chart is given, a chart
> which works very well in chart comparisons with famous personalities who
> "made it big" in New York in the past, and which is therefore, likely
> accurate. Transits and particularly, transits over the N.Y.C. chart ought
> to be more significant than merely transits per se at the day and time of
> the disaster

Absolutely. You could also look at the chart of the NYSE - while the World
Trade Center isn't the same thing, they are all part of the same financial
complex.
The NYSE chart may show heavy Saturn involvement for several days - after
all, it was shut down!
>

John Roth

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 9:09:05 AM9/13/01
to

"Edvins Augusts" <mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3B9FCD0D...@earthlink.net...

Mercury takes on the coloration of the planets it's aspecting. As I noted
elsewhere
in this thread, it's the point planet in a Yod configuration consisting of
transiting
Mars and Uranus to (High 5) natal Mercury.

John Roth
>


jpete...@aol.com

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 3:43:21 PM9/13/01
to
Ray, I would love to take credit for being so smart about picking out
the moon-Mars opposition on the eclipse point as the "celestial
trigger" for the terrible catastrophe.

But actually, THE MOUNTAIN ASTROLOGER forecast in their
August/September issue has a line that says that on Tuesday (sept 11)
when the moon touched this point, something of short duration would
happen that, though brief, would get everybody's attention.

Here is the exact quote:

"Mars is in Capricorn right now; on Tuesday [Sept 11], when the Moon
enters Cancer . . . it opposes Mars . . . . This combination
reactivates the recent solar eclipse degree. It is short in duration,
but it *will* be noticed."---Tem Tarriktar, "Forecast Calendar"

This insightful astrologer, whoever he is, obviously could not foresee
the great tragedy that has hit us, but he certainly did realize that
something of short duration but great significance would happen on
Tuesday. He was absolutely correct.

Because of his insightful comment, I hope to chart the other points of
recent eclipses. I have nto even read your complete answer to my
previous post, but I did want to hasten to say that I am no skilled
astrologer, and I got my info from MOUNTAIN ASTROLOGER.

JPO

Ray Murphy

unread,
Sep 13, 2001, 8:39:45 PM9/13/01
to

----------
In article <3ba0a601...@news.pipeline.com>, jpete...@aol.com
wrote:

RM: Well I'm very glad all of this has been brought to our attention.
It would be interesting to count the number of other predictions (if
any) that were published in that magazine which cover this period.

Personally I use the transitting Asc + MC for the fine-tuning of this
sort of transit, and while it doesn't work all the time of course, it
works often enough to be astonishing at times. This "fine tuning" does
not usually mean the exact time of the main event - but it does
indicate a key time in a series of events.

Normally I'm using a person's chart for this sort of thing, but now
I'm trying to figure out how to apply that to this tragedy.
Where do we start?
Naturally we will be able to find ~something~ that fits (under the law
of averages) but I would be looking for something that is *striking*.

If I had more time right now, I'd be looking at various possibilities,
but it's more important to mention this factor ASAP, in case someone
else can find it - if it exists.

We've got various locations and departure times. We may have
(eventually) the times and places of hijacking.

Ray


futurelove

unread,
Sep 16, 2001, 12:22:46 AM9/16/01
to

Check out the Robert Hand article on Pluto / Saturn in the same issue. He
essentially predicts WAR and global
stock market woes stemming from Libran ingress of
9/21/01.
He nails it IMO.
futureulove

je

unread,
Sep 16, 2001, 10:41:29 PM9/16/01
to
I was looking at Saturn Pluto opposition. What I found was that the
prior exact Oposition was on Aug 5 at 12degrees. Saturn turns retrograde
on Sept 27 and then makes the exact again on nov 2. Saturn again goes
direct on on Feb 8. catching up agian to the opposition on May 26.
Mercury has several retrogrades during this period so all should be
confirmed and ended on june 8 when Mercury goes direct.

Don't forget if you are using any July 4 USA charts the Sun is 13 Cancer
and bush's chart has the sun at 13 Cancer. The prior eclisp 13 capricorn
on july 5.
I see an eclisp as an opportunity to face some Karma and by ones
attitude to either overcome it or build it higher.

Once when I did have an eclispe in which I recognized the Karma in
retrospect of course. I discovered that the day of the eclispe actually
started the series of events. this was due to that day I remet an old
friend that the Karma involved.
But the events played out over a long period of time.

dec 17 is also a day to watch. After Uranus goes retrograde and then
direct it comes back to its Sept 11 spot.

Does anyone know what may have happened on Aug 5 and if Bush happened to
meet with any one in particular that day. Or make any remarks of
significance.

My fingers and brain are not in sink today so please correct any errors.

Jean
On to 2002!!!

je

unread,
Sep 16, 2001, 10:42:06 PM9/16/01
to

Re: I don't get it ...

Group: alt.astrology.moderated Date: Wed, Sep 12, 2001, 6:16pm (EDT-2)
From: mysti...@earthlink.net (Edvins Augusts)
--------------------------------------
You bring up something important. This chart is a world view chart, not
just applying to the US. If you are looking from their shoes it is a
pretty good chart.

Looking back at the bombing of the WTC on Feb 26, 1993, 12:18 Pm EST. I
find that Saturn is approching square to Pluto with about a 2 degree
orb. Pluto on the cusp of the 6th, Saturn in 9th and Neputune and Uranus
conjunct at 20 Capricorn in the 7th.

The eclispe there is at 2 capricorn which is on the bombing chart
decenden with in a degreee.

Jean
On to 2002!!!

Another fine product

unread,
Sep 17, 2001, 3:20:13 PM9/17/01
to

In article <7021-3BA...@storefull-238.iap.bryant.webtv.net>,

je <lib...@webtv.net> wrote:
>Does anyone know what may have happened on Aug 5 and if Bush happened to
>meet with any one in particular that day. Or make any remarks of
>significance.

>From Google cache of CNN, the first couple of paragraphs of each article and
others that help paint the picture:

========
8/5/2001: Bush planning new focus on "compassion" issues

CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) -- President Bush is planning a shift in
emphasis back to some of the core "compassionate conservative" themes that
helped put him in the White House, aides said Sunday.

Bush spent the first day of his month-long vacation secluded on his
1,600-acre central Texas ranch, going on a four-mile walk with his wife
Laura in the morning and later performing some general maintenance work.
[...]
While kicking back and relaxing, the Republican president also plotted
how to fine-tune his strategy to reinforce his commitment to issues like
education as Democrats increasingly portray him as the voice of the
Republican right wing, beholden to special interests and out of touch with
mainstream America.
[...]
Bush will stress character values and the need for improved education
in America in a variety of settings, like spending time with parents and
children at a picnic during a trip to Colorado next week.

========
8/5/2001: Fighting escalates in Middle East (cached by Google)

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Four people died and at least 15 others were injured
Sunday in a string of violent incidents between Israelis and Palestinians.

A Palestinian man was shot dead by the Israeli army in Ramin, near
Tulkarem, on the West Bank, the Palestine Red Crescent said Sunday. The
Palestinian organization identified the man as Mahdi Muhammed Mazyyad, 25.
The Israeli army said it is checking the report.

========
8/5/2001: Kashmiri militants massacre Hindu villagers

SRINAGAR, India -- Indian police say Muslim militants have killed 17 Hindu
villagers they kidnapped in India's troubled Jammu and Kashmir state.

The killings were condemned by two separate Kashmiri militant groups who
accused Indian security forces of themselves being behind the incident to
promote conflict in the region.

The guerrillas abducted 20 shepherds or farmers in an early morning raid
on Saturday from the town of Atholi and took them to a remote area before
shooting them, an Indian police official said.

========
8/5/2001: Philippine hostages return home

MANILA, Philippines (CNN) -- A group of 13 hostages, including seven
children, recovered by the Philippine military early Sunday have been
allowed to return to their homes.

The group were the last of 37 Christian Filipinos kidnapped three days
earlier by the Abu Sayyaf guerrillas on the southern island of Basilan,
about 900 km (560 miles) from Manila.

========
http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/08/afghan.timeline/

August 5, 2001 - The Taliban arrests international aid workers on charges
of spreading Christianity, an offense punishable by death under the
Taliban's interpretation of Islamic law.

========

That's all that looked relevant to me. You may find more relevant stuff
in the 30-odd results:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+site:www.cnn.com+%22august+5,+2001%22

Another fine product of...


--
Jonathan

je

unread,
Sep 19, 2001, 8:54:24 AM9/19/01
to
Jonathon thank you much, much. and yes it is relavant. I have a hunch
that was the day this was put in motion. The go was given or something.

Thanks again.

Jean
On to 2002!!!

KelL

unread,
Sep 20, 2001, 3:53:19 PM9/20/01
to
In article <3B9FCD0D...@earthlink.net>,
Edvins Augusts <mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Ixtlilton wrote:
>
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> > crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> > something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> > obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> > harmonious relationship to both planets.
>
> I hate to say so, (upon reflection), but Mercury, being a "neutral"
> planet, rather than a benefic, may have even, as the "winged God" of
> communication, facilitated the terrorist action through harmoniously
> aspecting both Saturn and Pluto from the Ascendant to make the terrorist
> flights "successful" -- in the terms of the horrific thing they were
> attempting, well-symbolized indeed by Saturn opp Pluto. I hope I'm
> wrong, I don't like to think that Mercury would be capable of such a
> thing. Although it was emphasizing the Sat-Plu opp, which certainly was
> capable of such a thing!
>

This may have already been mentioned, but Mercury was/is Psychopomp and
also God of Commerce.
--
KellyL
AFTRA/Actor/Director
Usenet: an Erisitic construct of the Temporary Autonomous Zone (C)
I am etristic and a mime disaster in satin plaid booties (C)

KelL

unread,
Sep 20, 2001, 3:53:57 PM9/20/01
to
In article <3B9FCD0D...@earthlink.net>,
Edvins Augusts <mysti...@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Ixtlilton wrote:
>
> > x-no-archive: yes
> >
> > I did a chart for Manhattan, 8:45AM EDT, the time given by CNN for the
> > crash of the first plane into the World Trade Center, expecting to find
> > something setting off the opposition between Pluto and Saturn, the most
> > obvious culprits, and I find Mercury right on the Ascendant in
> > harmonious relationship to both planets.
>
> I hate to say so, (upon reflection), but Mercury, being a "neutral"
> planet, rather than a benefic, may have even, as the "winged God" of
> communication, facilitated the terrorist action through harmoniously
> aspecting both Saturn and Pluto from the Ascendant to make the terrorist
> flights "successful" -- in the terms of the horrific thing they were
> attempting, well-symbolized indeed by Saturn opp Pluto. I hope I'm
> wrong, I don't like to think that Mercury would be capable of such a
> thing. Although it was emphasizing the Sat-Plu opp, which certainly was
> capable of such a thing!
>

May have been already addressed, but Mercury is also Psychopomp and God
of Commerce, and Saturn and Pluto (Plutus) as Gods governed
monetary/business endeavors as Gods as well.

0 new messages