transit: saturn opposing neptune in libra

[Edmond Wollmann]

Ava Rosenblum wrote:

> Hello,

> A lot of folks in my generation have neptune in libra and will be
> experiencing an oppoisition from saturn in aries in the near future.

> My aries aspect of saturn is in the 8th house, opposing naptune in libra
> in the first.

> I would imagine that a fair number of readers of alt.astrology have
> neptune in libra. How are you interpreting this transit?

> thank you,

> ava r.

Hi Ava,
Mine will be from 9 to 3. This is in the thinking and exchange of info
area on my part.
Before I say anything on the aspect, I must reiterate that aspects do
NOT cause effects, attitudes cause effects that are reflected in
aspects. I know many have difficulty with this so I am going to use this
as an example to demonstrate.

Neptune is where we co-fuse (the positive idea regarding con-fusion) In
other words where we break down or dissolve ego focus and identity
defense. Therefore if we are positively aware of the idea that our
ideals are our way of finding God or "co-fusing" BACK with "All That Is"
we can know that we are not necessarily going to LOSE identity if some
of our barriers that we use to define it dissolve a little.

We can recognize that we are one with our brothers and sisters on this
planet. This is why compassion is associated with Picses and
Neptune-because the ego must let go of its grip on defense and allow the
validity of all others and their experiences. Also why Picses is the
limtation (12th house) of Aries-ego is necessarily limited by the
perspective recognition that we are just "one drop of water in an
endless sea".

Now, if we are tightly focused (Saturn and Mars) in defense and ego
definition, we are less willing, secure or CAPABLE of experiencing the
Neptunian idea. Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
HELD within the planet opposed. So what "happens" when Saturn opposes
planets is only as difficult or problematic as the beliefs held about
the planet and its idea (in this case dissolution of identity and ego
focus) that the person themselves has "programmed" into the planet it
opposes.. The time to be concerned with these things is ALWAYS, because
we may not be aware of how much negativity we have "programmed" into a
planet UNTIL we recieve something such as a Saturn opposition
(especially Saturn as it is the archetype of MANIFESTATION of our
attitudes into physicality)
Saturn reflects OUR DECISION (on an unconscious level of course) to TEST
the ideal by manifesting our attitudes there.

So what we extract from transits, is the effect of patterned definitions
put in (our own chart) over time. If we are aware of the idea that we
are all one and have compassion and the recognition of validity for
others and their identity (Libra) then Saturn will simply manifest
scenarios that REFLECT these definitions held.
If we are insecure, and bent on justifying our identity at the EXPENSE
of others-that our intention is to dominate from fear of invalidity of
our own ego importance, then the experience will be a dis-ILLUSION in
our relationships and disappointment in finding the ideal we
seek-because we do not truly believe we can see it manifested in
physical reality-HENCE SATURN SHOWS US IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS this
belief.

Since Saturn is in Aries, this can reflect conflicts in identity
differences and relationships. Saturn in Aries by itself, is the testing
and learning about the ramifications in physical world terms of BEING
and playing the role of a separate "thing" from the rest of the
multiverse (a person)-and the complications arising from it, i.e. ego
conflicts and power struggles.

It is extremely important to understand that all identities are valid
and that the empowerment and integrity ideas I post are designed to deal
with the belief in powerlessness that may occur from the illusions of
ego and identity validity-when it is defined as a "battle".
As you probably have felt, the Saturn in Aries is (pre)testing the
opposition by manifesting in smaller ways some of these conflicts-they
are an opportunity for each of us (Neptune in Libra or not) to come to
grips with the pitfalls of believing in domination and powerlessness.
THAT generations plea was for peace and brotherhood-if anyone
remembers-therefore the big protests against war in Viet Nam etc. Now
those ideals are tested again. PS Lyndon Johnson had Saturn in Aries:-)
I hope I have not confused things and this has served in some way.
Ed
--
"And its one, two, three, what are we fighting for? Don't ask me I don't
give a damn, next stop is Viet Nam. And its five, six, seven open up the
pearly gates-well there aint no time to wonder why! Whoopie! We're all
going to die!" Country Joe Macdonald and the Fish
--
Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
© 1997 Altair Publications
http://home.aol.com/ewollmann

[Seed of Life]

This is a well written article by Ed Wollman. Only a few comments.

Edmond Wollmann <woll...@aznet.net> writes: >
> Ava Rosenblum wrote:
>
> > Hello,
>
> > A lot of folks in my generation have neptune in libra and will be
> > experiencing an oppoisition from saturn in aries in the near future.
>

> > How are you interpreting this transit?
>

> Hi Ava,

(snippage)

> Now, if we are tightly focused (Saturn and Mars) in defense and ego
> definition, we are less willing, secure or CAPABLE of experiencing the
> Neptunian idea.

In the spherical flow of the seed of life research Mars and Saturn
pair up in what is called the "2nd Depth". These planets are in
counterbalance to Neptune. Finding balance here is key to good
health.

> Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
> manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
> HELD within the planet opposed. So what "happens" when Saturn opposes
> planets is only as difficult or problematic as the beliefs held about
> the planet and its idea (in this case dissolution of identity and ego
> focus) that the person themselves has "programmed" into the planet it
> opposes.. The time to be concerned with these things is ALWAYS, because
> we may not be aware of how much negativity we have "programmed" into a
> planet UNTIL we recieve something such as a Saturn opposition
> (especially Saturn as it is the archetype of MANIFESTATION of our
> attitudes into physicality)
> Saturn reflects OUR DECISION (on an unconscious level of course) to TEST
> the ideal by manifesting our attitudes there.
>

On the other hand, when Saturn transited my neptune by conjunction,
I learned of a secret that my father was keeping, and had intentions
of keeping to his death. I confronted him that I knew and that
it was OK that I knew, and that I had a right to know.

Ed Lambert

[Christine Lydon]

On Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:09:48 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
<woll...@aznet.net> wrote:

>Ava Rosenblum wrote:
>> A lot of folks in my generation have neptune in libra and will be
>> experiencing an oppoisition from saturn in aries in the near future.

>> I would imagine that a fair number of readers of alt.astrology have
>> neptune in libra. How are you interpreting this transit?

>Hi Ava, <snip>

>Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
>manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
>HELD within the planet opposed. So what "happens" when Saturn opposes
>planets is only as difficult or problematic as the beliefs held about
>the planet and its idea (in this case dissolution of identity and ego
>focus) that the person themselves has "programmed" into the planet it
>opposes..

And From another thread:
>On 20 Apr 1997 01:03:47 GMT, karm...@aol.com (KarmaGate) wrote:
>Here's is critique of an Edmond Wollman post ...<snip>...
>Joe Doaks

>> Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
>> manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
>> HELD within the planet opposed.

>Translation: "The opposition aspect between Saturn and Neptune is what
>manifests our 'belief systems' in the outer world."

>>we may not be aware of how much negativity we have "programmed" into a
>>planet UNTIL we recieve something such as a Saturn opposition
>>(especially Saturn as it is the archetype of MANIFESTATION of our
>>attitudes into physicality)

For me the phrases above about Saturn transits came at just the right
time to throw light on a friend's current situation.

He's going through a difficult time, and has just had his Saturn
return, but as that is on the way out now, I was looking for some
other indicators of what is going on with him. I see Saturn is now
coming up to oppose his Sun soon.

So what I understand from Ed's description above is that the nature of
the opposition aspect is to "externalise" whatever is within the
planet being opposed, and the nature of Saturn is to put things to the
test.. So Saturn will "test" his natal Sun by creating some external
situation or circumstance which reflects the "contents" of his natal
Sun.

So this Sun-Transiting Saturn opposition will only be as "difficult"
for him as his natal Sun is inherently "difficult" or otherwise. He
is certainly suffering a crisis of things symbolised by the Sun, such
as self-confidence and identity and creativity and seeing his purpose.

His natal Sun is not badly placed, but it is in the same sign as his
South Node, both in Libra in the second house, although not conjunct.
I tend to attach a lot of importance to the Moon's Nodes in helping
people to find the right direction to move along, like a pathway to
follow from the South to the North. Saturn will transit his North
Node next year. What does anyone else think of the Nodes?

From Christine

[Yolanda Y. Wales]

Christine Lydon wrote:
>
> On Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:09:48 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:
>
> >Ava Rosenblum wrote:

> >> A lot of folks in my generation have neptune in libra and will be
> >> experiencing an oppoisition from saturn in aries in the near future.

> >> I would imagine that a fair number of readers of alt.astrology have
> >> neptune in libra. How are you interpreting this transit?
>

> >Hi Ava, <snip>

> >Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
> >manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
> >HELD within the planet opposed. So what "happens" when Saturn opposes
> >planets is only as difficult or problematic as the beliefs held about
> >the planet and its idea (in this case dissolution of identity and ego
> >focus) that the person themselves has "programmed" into the planet it
> >opposes..
>

> And From another thread:
> >On 20 Apr 1997 01:03:47 GMT, karm...@aol.com (KarmaGate) wrote:
> >Here's is critique of an Edmond Wollman post ...<snip>...
> >Joe Doaks

> >> Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
> >> manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
> >> HELD within the planet opposed.
>

> >Translation: "The opposition aspect between Saturn and Neptune is what
> >manifests our 'belief systems' in the outer world."
>

> >>we may not be aware of how much negativity we have "programmed" into a
> >>planet UNTIL we recieve something such as a Saturn opposition
> >>(especially Saturn as it is the archetype of MANIFESTATION of our
> >>attitudes into physicality)
>

> For me the phrases above about Saturn transits came at just the right
> time to throw light on a friend's current situation.
>
> He's going through a difficult time, and has just had his Saturn
> return, but as that is on the way out now, I was looking for some
> other indicators of what is going on with him. I see Saturn is now
> coming up to oppose his Sun soon.
>
> So what I understand from Ed's description above is that the nature of
> the opposition aspect is to "externalise" whatever is within the
> planet being opposed, and the nature of Saturn is to put things to the
> test.. So Saturn will "test" his natal Sun by creating some external
> situation or circumstance which reflects the "contents" of his natal
> Sun.
>
> So this Sun-Transiting Saturn opposition will only be as "difficult"
> for him as his natal Sun is inherently "difficult" or otherwise. He
> is certainly suffering a crisis of things symbolised by the Sun, such
> as self-confidence and identity and creativity and seeing his purpose.
>
> His natal Sun is not badly placed, but it is in the same sign as his
> South Node, both in Libra in the second house, although not conjunct.
> I tend to attach a lot of importance to the Moon's Nodes in helping
> people to find the right direction to move along, like a pathway to
> follow from the South to the North. Saturn will transit his North
> Node next year. What does anyone else think of the Nodes?
>
> From Christine

I think your friend is well on his way to real-izing himself. Saturn
has always had such a bad reputation but only in our "perception"
because we are faced--through saturn--with the crystallization of
our base-reality, and in some instances it compels us to face about
ourselves what we fear the most. Yet in other instances saturn
strenghtens our resolve.
The lunar nodes are indeed the "pathway" of our chosen earthly
manifestation. I believe the sumerians left us with some important
knowledge in this regard. For instance, in the so-called "war of
the gods" KINGU (the moon) is referred to as the keeper of all
knowledge--not unlike the akashic records. I have four planets
surrounding my south node and have had strong "recollections" of
past-life impressions. When a planet like saturn, neptune or pluto
transits one's north/south node, one is in a propitious position
to "remember" one's spiritual goal.
--

Yolanda Y. Wales
Spiritual Expressions
s...@flex.com
http://thatother.com/spx/

[Edmond Wollmann]

Christine Lydon wrote:

> On Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:09:48 -0700, Edmond Wollmann
> <woll...@aznet.net> wrote:

> >Ava Rosenblum wrote:

> >> A lot of folks in my generation have neptune in libra and will be
> >> experiencing an oppoisition from saturn in aries in the near future.

> >> I would imagine that a fair number of readers of alt.astrology have
> >> neptune in libra. How are you interpreting this transit?

> >Hi Ava, <snip>

> >Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
> >manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
> >HELD within the planet opposed. So what "happens" when Saturn opposes
> >planets is only as difficult or problematic as the beliefs held about
> >the planet and its idea (in this case dissolution of identity and ego
> >focus) that the person themselves has "programmed" into the planet it
> >opposes..

> And From another thread:
> >On 20 Apr 1997 01:03:47 GMT, karm...@aol.com (KarmaGate) wrote:
> >Here's is critique of an Edmond Wollman post ...<snip>...
> >Joe Doaks

> >> Saturn tests and manifests our beliefs INTO physical
> >> manifestation-and oppositions EXTERNALIZE the beliefs and definitions
> >> HELD within the planet opposed.

> >Translation: "The opposition aspect between Saturn and Neptune is what
> >manifests our 'belief systems' in the outer world."

> >>we may not be aware of how much negativity we have "programmed" into a
> >>planet UNTIL we recieve something such as a Saturn opposition
> >>(especially Saturn as it is the archetype of MANIFESTATION of our
> >>attitudes into physicality)

> For me the phrases above about Saturn transits came at just the right
> time to throw light on a friend's current situation.

Thank you Christine, after reading this I see I may not be as confusing
as my detractors would like everyone to assume I am.:-) If my posts are
read with consistency they CAN be useful-of course anything worth having
and learning-in my opinion, is worth putting some effort forth for. I
will just add a little to hopefully clarify as this is a VERY important
point of my whole work effort.

> He's going through a difficult time, and has just had his Saturn
> return, but as that is on the way out now, I was looking for some
> other indicators of what is going on with him. I see Saturn is now
> coming up to oppose his Sun soon.

Any difficulties are always the resistence to growth and the degree of
negativity or separation a person "believes" in.

> So what I understand from Ed's description above is that the nature of
> the opposition aspect is to "externalise" whatever is within the
> planet being opposed, and the nature of Saturn is to put things to the
> test..

Yes, but to clarify, it reflects the APPROACH and belief of the person
in question-not really anything inherent in the planet itself. Negative
belief in-negative effect out-positive in positive out-it is actually
quite simple, not complex. Please see my current post on Neptune and
Co-fusion, this positive negative idea I have elucidated on in my
integrity and empowerment posts, so that those so inclined can get a
handle on the fundamental energies and understanding.

> So Saturn will "test" his natal Sun by creating some external
> situation or circumstance which reflects the "contents" of his natal
> Sun.

Yes, it will test the beliefs he has HABITUALLY encoded, perspectives he
has bought into with regard to what the "Sun" means to him.

> So this Sun-Transiting Saturn opposition will only be as "difficult"
> for him as his natal Sun is inherently "difficult" or otherwise.

Not inherently no, there is nothing inherent in it. There may be a
MOMENTUM of believing a certain way-yes (karma) that will then be
externalized and EXTRACTED from the energy he has PUT in. In this way we
create our own experience and reality and is the reason the astrologer
must be able to DISCERN the belief momentum of the client in question,
in order to accurately predict.

> He
> is certainly suffering a crisis of things symbolised by the Sun, such
> as self-confidence and identity and creativity and seeing his purpose.

Then the positive way to approach it is for him to ACKNOWLEDGE these
fears and insecurities as a part of his REASON for externalizing them-so
he can see how Saturn is SERVING him in a positive way to allow him to
know that they ARE there first of all-secondly how do they serve to tell
him about himself? and finally -once owned to REFRAME and redefine that
belief if it is not preferred so that what is PREFERRED will be the
"concretized" reality experience NEXT time. Because there is NO inherent
meaning in things we can replace value judgments easily with one we
prefer that is more positive. This is why I teach 100% control over our
reality-because as soon as we CONCRETIZE the horoscope as a "directive
handed down from on high" it is more difficult to change than if we
recognize it will simply be a reflective GUIDE to redefinition.

> His natal Sun is not badly placed, but it is in the same sign as his
> South Node, both in Libra in the second house, although not conjunct.

Then perhaps his own fears and beliefs about his worth and values in
powerful exchange with others values (8) will allow him a broader
perspective through this transit and allow him to see that BOTH and ALL
are valid ways and a "struggle" is not necessary-just a choice. Libra's
fears are associated with not being "approved of" by others to gain
identity validity-so he may have to stand up for his own perspective as
never before-to allow him to know where he may give power to others
being TOO important to his beliefs of self validation. It is their ego
importance (Aries) that will then appear as a percieved threat.

> I tend to attach a lot of importance to the Moon's Nodes in helping
> people to find the right direction to move along, like a pathway to
> follow from the South to the North. Saturn will transit his North
> Node next year. What does anyone else think of the Nodes?

It is the area (the north node) where through expansion and application
the fulfillment of the reigning needs of the moon will be most
harmoniously and effortlessly expressed. The patternization of the past
momentum (south node) requires less preoccupation with-and directed more
toward the north node. The nodal AXIS is the patternization of
unconscious belief momentum that works hand in hand with the moon and
reflects where the mother had great effect and catalysed certain
nurturance functions.
Thank you for actually reading and trying to comprehend my work, it is
indeed fulfilling when it is seen and applied. My goal is to serve.
Ed
--
"The myth brings us into a level of consciousness that is spiritual . .
. there is a condescension on the part of the infinite to the mind of
man, and that is what looks like God." Joseph Campbell "Myths To Live
By"