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Kennedy talked of possibility of killing Castro
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Peter Fokes
Aug 18, 2012, 1:23:10 PM8/18/12
to
Anthony Marsh
Aug 18, 2012, 10:50:25 PM8/18/12
to
On 8/18/2012 1:23 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>
>
> PF
>
A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
pressure? from his advisers.
But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>
>
> PF
>
A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
pressure? from his advisers.
But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
Bill Clarke
Aug 19, 2012, 9:49:31 AM8/19/12
to
In article <502ff60c$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA, Tim Weiner.
In the words of Helms, when asked if JFK wanted Castro dead. “There is nothing
on paper, of course, but there is certainly no question in my mind that he did.
Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very sloppy work if you
could find it on paper. Page 216.
On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
Project by the CIA’s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency’s
security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was “mad as hell-not mad about the
assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia’s role in it. He did nothing to
stop the CIA from seeking Castro’s death. Page 215.
Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
Bill Clarke
In the words of Helms, when asked if JFK wanted Castro dead. “There is nothing
on paper, of course, but there is certainly no question in my mind that he did.
Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very sloppy work if you
could find it on paper. Page 216.
On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
Project by the CIA’s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency’s
security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was “mad as hell-not mad about the
assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia’s role in it. He did nothing to
stop the CIA from seeking Castro’s death. Page 215.
Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
Aug 19, 2012, 8:11:22 PM8/19/12
to
On 8/19/2012 9:49 AM, Bill Clarke wrote:
> In article <502ff60c$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
>>
>> On 8/18/2012 1:23 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>>>
>>>
>>> PF
>>>
>>
>>
>> A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
>> 1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
>> Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
>> pressure? from his advisers.
>>
>> But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
>> and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
>>
>>
>
> Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA, Tim Weiner.
>
> In the words of Helms, when asked if JFK wanted Castro dead. ?There is nothing
> In article <502ff60c$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
>>
>> On 8/18/2012 1:23 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>>>
>>>
>>> PF
>>>
>>
>>
>> A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
>> 1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
>> Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
>> pressure? from his advisers.
>>
>> But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
>> and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
>>
>>
>
> Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA, Tim Weiner.
>
> on paper, of course, but there is certainly no question in my mind that he did.
> Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very sloppy work if you
> could find it on paper. Page 216.
>
You know nothing about the world of intelligence. We did find it on paper.
> Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very sloppy work if you
> could find it on paper. Page 216.
>
We found the CIA memos which outline the operations to assassinate Castro,
the Inspector General's Reort, the memo in which the Director of Central
Intelligence authorizes the Castro assassination, and more that you never
even dreamed of.
> On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
It was called ZR/RIFLE.
> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
> assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>
As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
plots by reading about them in the newspaper. Then he told his brother and
JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
> Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
> Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>
who could buy a newspaper would know.
And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
> Bill Clarke
>
>
Bill Clarke
Aug 20, 2012, 10:31:36 PM8/20/12
to
In article <50310a25$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
year. It wasn't you. One of us attended S-2 (thats intelligence for you)
briefings on operations planned based on intelligence they had received.
It wasn't you either. One of us led operations utilizing intelligence.
Again, it wasn't you. All you have is an armchair knowledge of
intelligence and most everything else. It would help if you had ever done
something in the real world.
>We did find it on paper.We found the CIA memos which outline the operations to
assassinate Castro written on paper. Have you found that one?
>> On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>
>The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>It was called ZR/RIFLE.
The book said "Rifle".
>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>
>
>As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
This is laughable. Always has been and always will be.
Then he told his brother and
>JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
You have this on paper? The book says Bobby did not stop it at all.
>>Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
>> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
>> Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
>> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>>
>
>Hundreds of people knew that the CIA was trying to kill Castro. Anyone
>who could buy a newspaper would know.
>And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
>Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
Not at all Marsh. And when Kennedy became president Ike's order remained
justification to continue the assassination attempts on Castro. Or at
least it was justification in the eyes of the CIA.
Bill Clarke
>
>On 8/19/2012 9:49 AM, Bill Clarke wrote:
>> In article <502ff60c$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
>>>
>>> On 8/18/2012 1:23 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>>>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PF
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
>>> 1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
>>> Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
>>> pressure? from his advisers.
>>>
>>> But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
>>> and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA, Tim Weiner.
>>
>> In the words of Helms, when asked if JFK wanted Castro dead. ?There is
>> nothing on paper, of course, but there is certainly no question in my mind
>> that he did. Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very
>> sloppy work if you could find it on paper. Page 216.
>You know nothing about the world of intelligence.
That is pretty rich Marsh. One of us carried a Cach Wheel and codes for a
>On 8/19/2012 9:49 AM, Bill Clarke wrote:
>> In article <502ff60c$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
>>>
>>> On 8/18/2012 1:23 PM, Peter Fokes wrote:
>>>>http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> PF
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A lot of "talk" about the possibility. No order from JFK. In November,
>>> 1961, JFK asked journalist Tad Szulc: ?What would you think if I ordered
>>> Castro to be assassinated?? JFK claimed that he was under ?terrible
>>> pressure? from his advisers.
>>>
>>> But already in 1960 Eisenhower had authorized the assassination of Castro
>>> and Richard Nixon had ordered the CIA to do it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Legacy of Ashes: The history of the CIA, Tim Weiner.
>>
>> In the words of Helms, when asked if JFK wanted Castro dead. ?There is
>> nothing on paper, of course, but there is certainly no question in my mind
>> that he did. Back to plausible denial, Marsh. It would have been very
>> sloppy work if you could find it on paper. Page 216.
>You know nothing about the world of intelligence.
year. It wasn't you. One of us attended S-2 (thats intelligence for you)
briefings on operations planned based on intelligence they had received.
It wasn't you either. One of us led operations utilizing intelligence.
Again, it wasn't you. All you have is an armchair knowledge of
intelligence and most everything else. It would help if you had ever done
something in the real world.
>We did find it on paper.We found the CIA memos which outline the operations to
>assassinate Castro, the Inspector General's Reort, the memo in which the
>Director of Central Intelligence authorizes the Castro assassination, and
>more that you never even dreamed of.
Pay attention Marsh. Helms was referring to an order by JFK to
>Director of Central Intelligence authorizes the Castro assassination, and
>more that you never even dreamed of.
assassinate Castro written on paper. Have you found that one?
>> On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>
>The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>It was called ZR/RIFLE.
>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>
>
>As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
Then he told his brother and
>JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
>>Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
>> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
>> Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
>> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>>
>
>Hundreds of people knew that the CIA was trying to kill Castro. Anyone
>who could buy a newspaper would know.
>And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
>Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
justification to continue the assassination attempts on Castro. Or at
least it was justification in the eyes of the CIA.
Bill Clarke
Canuck
Aug 20, 2012, 11:27:43 PM8/20/12
to
On Saturday, August 18, 2012 10:23:10 AM UTC-7, Peter Fokes wrote:
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro PF
Robert Morrow and Mario Garcia Kohly got involved in a counterfeit scheme
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/2012/aug/17/john-f-kennedy-fidel-castro PF
involving Cuban pesos, in an attempt to destabilize the Cuban economy
prior to an invasion that they anticipated would happen in late 1963.
They were both arrested in a Secret Service "sting" operation, along with
Morrow's wife and Kohly's right-hand man,in October, 1963. You can read my
account "The Morrow-Kohly-Nixon Connection" at
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/morrow2.htm.
Nixon offered to defend Kohly FOR FREE! - Peter R. Whitmey
Anthony Marsh
Aug 21, 2012, 11:22:23 PM8/21/12
to
have to rely on HIS lies. Well, Helms testified to the Senate committee
that JFK did not authorize the assassination of Castro. So which lie do
you chose to believe?
>
>
>>> On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>>
>> The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>> It was called ZR/RIFLE.
>
> The book said "Rifle".
>
talking about.
>
>>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>> assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>>
>>
>> As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>> plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
>
> This is laughable. Always has been and always will be.
>
>
> Then he told his brother and
>> JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>> asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>> found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
>
> You have this on paper? The book says Bobby did not stop it at all.
>
>
>>> Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
>>> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
>>> Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
>>> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>>>
>>
>> Hundreds of people knew that the CIA was trying to kill Castro. Anyone
>> who could buy a newspaper would know.
>> And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
>> Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
>
>
> Not at all Marsh. And when Kennedy became president Ike's order remained
> justification to continue the assassination attempts on Castro. Or at
> least it was justification in the eyes of the CIA.
>
really thought he had the continuing authorization carried over from the
Eisenhower administration.
> Bill Clarke
>
>
Bill Clarke
Aug 22, 2012, 9:06:44 AM8/22/12
to
In article <503412a6$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
Helms was a good soldier. He lied for JFK and he lied for Nixon. This is part
of the plausible denial and Helms put himself at risk for it. Did you know that
Helms didn't agree with these assassination operations?
>>>>On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>>>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>>>
>>> The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>>> It was called ZR/RIFLE.
>>
>> The book said "Rifle".
>>
>
>That's my point. It shows that your source doesn't know what he is
>talking about.
BFD.
>>>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>>>assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>>>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>>> plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
>>
>> This is laughable. Always has been and always will be.
>>
>>
>> Then he told his brother and
>>> JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>>> asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>>> found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
>>
>> You have this on paper? The book says Bobby did not stop it at all.
>>
>
>Just as you did.
So you don't have this on paper. Of course if you did you would have burned it
long ago. Anything to keep Camelot shinning.
>>>>Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
>>>> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
>>>>Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
>>>> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hundreds of people knew that the CIA was trying to kill Castro. Anyone
>>> who could buy a newspaper would know.
>>> And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
>>> Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
>>
>>
>> Not at all Marsh. And when Kennedy became president Ike's order remained
>> justification to continue the assassination attempts on Castro. Or at
>> least it was justification in the eyes of the CIA.
>>
>
>It's hard for me to explain. I am not making excuses for Helms, but he
>really thought he had the continuing authorization carried over from the
>Eisenhower administration.
Yes, that is what I said.
Bill Clarke
of the plausible denial and Helms put himself at risk for it. Did you know that
Helms didn't agree with these assassination operations?
>>>>On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>>>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>>>
>>> The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>>> It was called ZR/RIFLE.
>>
>> The book said "Rifle".
>>
>
>That's my point. It shows that your source doesn't know what he is
>talking about.
>>>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>>>assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>>>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>>>
>>>
>>> As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>>> plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
>>
>> This is laughable. Always has been and always will be.
>>
>>
>> Then he told his brother and
>>> JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>>> asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>>> found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
>>
>> You have this on paper? The book says Bobby did not stop it at all.
>>
>
>Just as you did.
long ago. Anything to keep Camelot shinning.
>>>>Johnson still had no idea that the United States had been trying to kill Castro
>>>> for the better part of three years. Very few people knew. One was Allen
>>>>Dulles. Another was Richard Helms. A third was Bobby Kennedy. A fourth was
>>>> very likely Fidel Castro. Page 260.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Hundreds of people knew that the CIA was trying to kill Castro. Anyone
>>> who could buy a newspaper would know.
>>> And as always you ignore the fact that the Castro plots started under
>>> Eisenhower and the DCI then put his authorization on paper.
>>
>>
>> Not at all Marsh. And when Kennedy became president Ike's order remained
>> justification to continue the assassination attempts on Castro. Or at
>> least it was justification in the eyes of the CIA.
>>
>
>It's hard for me to explain. I am not making excuses for Helms, but he
>really thought he had the continuing authorization carried over from the
>Eisenhower administration.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
Aug 22, 2012, 11:08:19 PM8/22/12
to
not lie FOR JFK. He lied TO JFK. And lied to Nixon and refused to
cooperate with Nixon's cover-up of Watergate which why Nixon fired him.
JFK would have fired him, but Helms got him first. Then Helms got rid of
Nixon to prevent Nixon from firing a quarter of the CIA. The guy who blew
the lid off Watergate reported directly to Helms. If it makes you feel any
better you can justify all the things Helms did by saying that he did it
for the good of the country.
Presidents come and go, but the CIA always remains and refuses to reform.
Helms' only loyalty was to the Company, not the President, not the
country, not any person.
> of the plausible denial and Helms put himself at risk for it. Did you know that
> Helms didn't agree with these assassination operations?
>
technical flaws in some of the planned attacks. But he never stopped the
planning or objected to the goal.
He was squeamish about CIA officers meeting direct with the Mafia.
>
>
>>>>> On May 7, 1962, the attorney general (Bobby) was briefed in full on the Rifle
>>>>> Project by the CIA?s general counsel, Lawrence Houston, and the agency?s
>>>>
>>>> The Rifle project? You don't even know what you are talking about.
>>>> It was called ZR/RIFLE.
>>>
>>> The book said "Rifle".
>>>
>>
>> That's my point. It shows that your source doesn't know what he is
>> talking about.
>
> BFD.
>
read as long as it reinforces your prejudices.
>
>>>>> security chief, Sheffield Edwards. RFK was ?mad as hell-not mad about the
>>>>> assassination plot itself, but about the Mafia?s role in it. He did nothing to
>>>>> stop the CIA from seeking Castro?s death. Page 215.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As usual you omit the important details. RFK only learned about the Castro
>>>> plots by reading about them in the newspaper.
>>>
>>> This is laughable. Always has been and always will be.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then he told his brother and
>>>> JFK ordered him to get to the bottom of it, so Bobby called the CIA and
>>>> asked them if it was true or not. That is what started it. When Bobby
>>>> found out he ordered the CIA to stop the operation.
>>>
>>> You have this on paper? The book says Bobby did not stop it at all.
>>>
>>
>> Just as you did.
>
> So you don't have this on paper. Of course if you did you would have burned it
> long ago. Anything to keep Camelot shinning.
>
ordered millions of documents destroyed and you approve of that. I am the
only one badgering the Kennedy Library to release the transcripts of WH
recordings which they even refuse to admit having. Not you.
Bill Clarke
Aug 23, 2012, 4:01:41 PM8/23/12
to
In article <50351f78$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>, Anthony Marsh says...
Presidents might come and go but they also remain the same. They all misused
the CIA.
Now while it might be camp for you and your ink to whine about the CIA being a
rouge elephant you need to look at the bigger rouge elephant (our
presidents)often pushing them. That includes JFK.
Bill Clarke
the CIA.
Now while it might be camp for you and your ink to whine about the CIA being a
rouge elephant you need to look at the bigger rouge elephant (our
presidents)often pushing them. That includes JFK.
Bill Clarke
Anthony Marsh
Aug 23, 2012, 10:12:57 PM8/23/12
to
to assassinate a foreign leader unless the President forced them to? What
were the exact words that Richard Helms used to tell Richard Nixon that he
would not follow Nixon's orders to cover up the Watergate conspiracy?
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