CBS Assassination Footage
John McAdams
but this is another source.
http://www.localslovevegas.com/
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
David Von Pein
Related link:
WFAA (Dallas) assassination footage:
www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=111374B6CC25FB80&page=2
And:
Hundreds more related assassination video links:
jas
Boy, this footage brings back memories of that afternoon parked in front
of the tube.
I find interesting the inaccuracies of some of the first reports coming
into the CBS newsroom, specifically:
The 30.30 rifle, the 25 caliber rifle, the rifle was that was found on a
staircase, the German Mauser that was found, a 30 year man was arrested,
Johnson being the "37th" president to be sworn in, the black man who was
seen shooting from the 5th floor, shots coming from the second floor, the
SS man who was killed, Connally shot in the chest, a man and a woman were
seen shooting from the grassy hill, the Soviet news TASS saying in their
first news flash that it was a right-wing political group that shot.
Fascinating piece of history...
Anthony Marsh
Exactly, but it is also interesting because it captures what earliest
reports actually said. Some WC defenders here claim that no witness ever
claimed that day that they saw someone firing from the grassy knoll. But
that's what the earliest report said. It is also important to actually SEE
the interviews rather than just read transcripts. It is clear from the way
Watson explains to the audience what Billy Newman is talking about that
Newman meant the shots came from up on the hill. Not the TSBD as McAdams
and company claim.
Martin Shackelford
mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
Martin
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:49761935$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
yeuhd
> Some WC defenders here claim that no witness ever
> claimed that day that they saw someone firing from the grassy knoll.
And who was this witness?
> But
> that's what the earliest report said. It is also important to actually SEE
> the interviews rather than just read transcripts. It is clear from the way
> Watson explains to the audience what Billy Newman is talking about that
> Newman meant the shots came from up on the hill. Not the TSBD as McAdams
> and company claim.
No, John McAdams does not. He lists William Newman as a "knoll"
earwitness. See:
yeuhd
wrote:
> In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and
> mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
Here's Jean Hill's signed affidavit from November 22, 1963:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0249a.htm
She thinks she saw plainclothes officers shooting "back" (probably
referring to Secret Service agent George Hickey in the back seat of the
followup car, who stood and raised his AR-15 automatic following the
assassination, but did not fire). But Hill says nothing about seeing a
Anthony Marsh
Martin's citation refers to audio files, not testimony or any affidavit.
Various witnesses gave slightly different accounts during live radio and
TV interviews than they told investigators.
I have not listened to the interview Martin is citing, so I can't verify
what she said and how she said it. I had never run across her explicitly
saying that she SAW a shot fired from the grassy knoll. I await further
information.
Anthony Marsh
You obviously have not read all of McAdams's messages. When confronted
with the fact that Newman said the shots came from behind him, McAdams
said that the TSBD was behind him and what's what he meant.
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"yeuhd" <Needle...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c825e4eb-6cd4-425e...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
John McAdams
<msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and
>mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
>
No, not "seeing."
She thought the shots came from the Knoll, but she also claimed she
did not see the shooter.
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
John McAdams
Seeing a shooter on the Knoll was a late addition to her story. 80s,
I think. It's in her book, in Marrs (I think), and in "Beyond JFK."
.John
--------------
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
David Von Pein
>>> "When confronted with the fact that [William] Newman said the shots
came from behind him, [John] McAdams said that the TSBD was behind him and
[t]hat's what he meant." <<<
Bill Newman, less than an hour after the shooting, told Jay Watson and the
WFAA-TV audience that he heard TWO shots coming from ONE solitary location
(behind him, "on the mound of ground there on the mall").
So, Newman's description about the number of shots he heard (two) and the
number of locations/directions from where he thought they originated (one)
are things that most certainly don't do the multi-gun conspiracy theorists
any favors whatsoever.*
* = Unless those CTers want to believe that William Newman, like almost
every other Dealey Plaza witness (except only five, out of 104 in McAdams
poll), somehow managed to hear shots coming from only ONE solitary
location within the Plaza, even though several different shooters were
popping away at John F. Kennedy that day.
Bottom Line Conclusion:
It couldn't be any more obvious what the solution is to the "location"
discrepancies that exist amongst the Dealey Plaza witnesses.
The solution -- Every witness (whether he/she knew it or not) heard ALL of
the shots coming from ONLY the Texas School Book Depository's 6th-Floor
Sniper's Nest, but due to the acoustics in the Plaza (or some other factor
or combination of factors that played tricks with the sound of the
gunshots), many witnesses thought that ALL of the shots were coming from a
place further west than the Depository Building (which even the hardest of
hardline conspiracy theorists know is dead-wrong).
Do conspiracists truly believe that 99 out of 104 earwitnesses (per
McAdams' "definitive" poll, and close to those same numbers per all other
polls I've ever seen regarding this matter, including polls put together
by conspiracy-leaning authors) would have said they heard ALL of the
gunshots coming from just a SINGLE location in the Plaza if an Oliver
Stone-like assassination scenario (3 guns and 6 non-silenced shots fired)
had really taken place on 11/22/63? That's just goofy.
~Mark VII~
www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7b06a89bd4042363
Anthony Marsh
>
>>>> "When confronted with the fact that [William] Newman said the shots
> came from behind him, [John] McAdams said that the TSBD was behind him and
> [t]hat's what he meant."<<<
>
>
> Bill Newman, less than an hour after the shooting, told Jay Watson and the
> WFAA-TV audience that he heard TWO shots coming from ONE solitary location
> (behind him, "on the mound of ground there on the mall").
>
> So, Newman's description about the number of shots he heard (two) and the
> number of locations/directions from where he thought they originated (one)
> are things that most certainly don't do the multi-gun conspiracy theorists
> any favors whatsoever.*
>
Ridiculous. Many witnesses did not hear all the shots. That does not
disqualify them. The point is that Newman and others pointed to the
grassy knoll as the source.
> * = Unless those CTers want to believe that William Newman, like almost
> every other Dealey Plaza witness (except only five, out of 104 in McAdams
> poll), somehow managed to hear shots coming from only ONE solitary
> location within the Plaza, even though several different shooters were
> popping away at John F. Kennedy that day.
>
> Bottom Line Conclusion:
>
> It couldn't be any more obvious what the solution is to the "location"
> discrepancies that exist amongst the Dealey Plaza witnesses.
>
> The solution -- Every witness (whether he/she knew it or not) heard ALL of
> the shots coming from ONLY the Texas School Book Depository's 6th-Floor
> Sniper's Nest, but due to the acoustics in the Plaza (or some other factor
> or combination of factors that played tricks with the sound of the
> gunshots), many witnesses thought that ALL of the shots were coming from a
> place further west than the Depository Building (which even the hardest of
> hardline conspiracy theorists know is dead-wrong).
>
Ok, fall back on WC fiction. I'll twist it for my own purposes and claim
that all shots came from the front and it was only echoes that made it
sound like some came from the TSBD.
>
> Do conspiracists truly believe that 99 out of 104 earwitnesses (per
> McAdams' "definitive" poll, and close to those same numbers per all other
> polls I've ever seen regarding this matter, including polls put together
> by conspiracy-leaning authors) would have said they heard ALL of the
> gunshots coming from just a SINGLE location in the Plaza if an Oliver
> Stone-like assassination scenario (3 guns and 6 non-silenced shots fired)
> had really taken place on 11/22/63? That's just goofy.
>
First of all we know better than to believe your misinterpretations of
the evidence. Second of all we know that witnesses are like 5 blind men
describing an elephant. Each may have part of the story and you need to
put them all together to see the whole picture.
> ~Mark VII~
>
> www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com
>
>
> www.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/7b06a89bd4042363
>
>
yeuhd
> On 2/9/2009 12:48 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
> > So, Newman's description about the number of shots he heard (two) and the
> > number of locations/directions from where he thought they originated (one)
> > are things that most certainly don't do the multi-gun conspiracy theorists
> > any favors whatsoever.*
>
> Ridiculous. Many witnesses did not hear all the shots. That does not
> disqualify them. The point is that Newman and others pointed to the
> grassy knoll as the source.
Here's another way to put it. Of those Dealey Plaza earwitnesses who
said the shots came from the area of the grassy knoll or Triple
Underpass, it's rare to find a witness who said only one shot came
from there. The great majority of knoll earwitnesses (30 of 39, or
77%) said *all* shots came from that direction, and say nothing about
shots coming from anywhere else.
Since even conspiracy theorists don't posit that ALL shots came from
the knoll, and very few CTs posit that more than ONE shot was fired
from the knoll, something should be obvious: any earwitness who said
that ALL the shots came from the knoll or underpass area had a POOR
SENSE OF SOUND DIRECTION, one that could NOT distinguish between
sounds coming from the TSBD and the knoll/underpass area, two very
different directions.
Knoll-area earwitnesses (meaning from direction of knoll or Triple
Underpass):
Victoria Adams: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Danny Arce: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Virgie Baker: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Jane Berry: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Doris Burns: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Ochus Campbell: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
James Crawford: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Avery Davis: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Ronald Fischer: Heard 3 or 4 shots, all from knoll area.
Wesley Frazier: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Dorothy Garner: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Peggy Hawkins: Heard 2 or 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Jean Hill: Heard 4 to 6 shots, all from knoll area.
* S. M. Holland: Heard 4 shots, from knoll area and from TSBD area.
Dolores Kounas: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
* Paul Landis: Heard 2 shots, from knoll area and from TSBD area.
Billy Lovelady: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
* A. J. Millican: Heard 8 shots, from TSBD area and knoll area.
Joe Molina: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
* Thomas Murphy: Heard 4 or more shots, all from knoll area.
Gayle Newman: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Jean Newman: Heard 2 shots, all from knoll area.
William Newman: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Orville Nix: Heard all shots from knoll area.
* Roberta Parker: Heard 3 shots, first from knoll area, others
unknown.
* David Powers: Heard 3 shots, from knoll area or TSBD area.
Frank Reilly: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Arnold Rowland: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
William Shelley: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
* Garland Slack: Heard 3 shots, from knoll area and TSBD area.
Edgar Smith: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Joe Marshall Smith: Heard shots, all from knoll area.
* Forrest Sorrels: Heard 3 shots, from knoll area or TSBD area.
James Tague: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area, but agreed that they
could have come from the TSBD.
Roy Truly: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
* Otis Williams: Heard 3 shots, from knoll area or Courthouse area.
Steven Wilson: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
Mary Woodward: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
S. R. Yates: Heard 3 shots, all from knoll area.
bigdog
I was fortunate enough to obtain a copy of the CBS coverage from the
first bulletin. I did get a chuckle about all the various inaccuracies
in the early reports. I think this is the "Fog of War" in play. One
thing that did surprise me was that from the very first bulletin, it
was believed that JFK had suffered a probably fatal head shot. I
didn't know that the early reports had this. When our principal
announced the shooting over our school's PA system, no mention was
made of this so I had always assumed that this wasn't know until the
official announcement of the death was made. Another of the surprises
was that CBS returned to the regular broadcast after Cronkite made the
first announcement. I think it wasn't until the third bulletin that
they stayed on the air. I can't imagine that happening today. Also, it
was interesting to see how primitive news coverage was back then. The
visual effects were nothing more than wire service photos that were
pasted to poster board and held in front of the camera by Cronkite.
Anthony Marsh
That is what WC defenders say. Martin says she said it that day.
> .John
> --------------
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
Anthony Marsh
> On 7 Feb 2009 12:38:01 -0500, "Martin Shackelford"
> <msh...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and
>> mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
>>
>
> No, not "seeing."
>
> She thought the shots came from the Knoll, but she also claimed she
> did not see the shooter.
>
Correct. She saw someone and assumed he was the shooter. She did not
claim to actually see him shooting.
David Von Pein
>>> "First of all we know better than to believe your misinterpretations
of the evidence. Second of all we know that witnesses are like 5 blind men
describing an elephant. Each may have part of the story and you need to
put them all together to see the whole picture." <<<
And when any reasonable person (i.e., a non-conspiracist) does this they
have only one conclusion they can reach, of course --- Only three shots
were fired; and they all came from the TSBD.
No other conclusion makes any sense at all. (Marsh's willingness to deny
the obvious notwithstanding--naturally.)
yeuhd
Television interview with Jean Hill and Mary Moorman on the afternoon
of Nov. 22, 1963:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu99dGBPh6M
(Jean Hill is on the left, in the plaid dress.)
Reporter: Did you see, were you a witness, did you see the person who
fired the weapon?
Jean Hill: No, I didn't see any person fire the weapon.
Reporter: You only heard it?
Jean Hill: I only heard it.
Anthony Marsh
OK, but I don't know if that is the interview Martin is talking about.
Nice how you cut out the CONTEXT of where she though the shot came from.
Does anyone think she was referring to hearing a shot from the TSBD? Or is
that just the impression that a WC defender wants to leave to mislead
people?
On February 18, 1964, 1500 people packed the Town Hall in New York City to
hear both Marguerite Oswald and lawyer Mark Lane speak. As reported in the
Feb. 19 edition of the NYT (p.30):
"Lane played a tape recording he said he made yesterday of a conversation
he had with a woman Dallas school teacher whom he called 'the closest
spectator' to the President's assassination. The woman said she heard
'four to six shots' and these came from a grassy knoll near an overpass in
front of the President's car..She also said she saw a man run from the
knoll."
Anthony Marsh
> On Feb 9, 10:24 am, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 2/9/2009 12:48 AM, David Von Pein wrote:
>>> So, Newman's description about the number of shots he heard (two) and the
>>> number of locations/directions from where he thought they originated (one)
>>> are things that most certainly don't do the multi-gun conspiracy theorists
>>> any favors whatsoever.*
>> Ridiculous. Many witnesses did not hear all the shots. That does not
>> disqualify them. The point is that Newman and others pointed to the
>> grassy knoll as the source.
>
>
> Here's another way to put it. Of those Dealey Plaza earwitnesses who
> said the shots came from the area of the grassy knoll or Triple
> Underpass, it's rare to find a witness who said only one shot came
> from there. The great majority of knoll earwitnesses (30 of 39, or
> 77%) said *all* shots came from that direction, and say nothing about
> shots coming from anywhere else.
>
> Since even conspiracy theorists don't posit that ALL shots came from
> the knoll, and very few CTs posit that more than ONE shot was fired
> from the knoll, something should be obvious: any earwitness who said
> that ALL the shots came from the knoll or underpass area had a POOR
> SENSE OF SOUND DIRECTION, one that could NOT distinguish between
> sounds coming from the TSBD and the knoll/underpass area, two very
> different directions.
>
All this proves is what has been known for many years, that eyewitness
statements are the least reliable form of evidence and no one should rely
on it for facts. Use it to look for clues. The HSCA did not rely on the
witnesses claiming that shots came from the grassy knoll. But they used
that clue to place the test shooter on the grassy knoll rather than in the
sewer or in the middle of the street.
yeuhd
> On 2/10/2009 12:03 AM, yeuhd wrote:
> > Television interview with Jean Hill and Mary Moorman on the afternoon
> > of Nov. 22, 1963:
>
> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu99dGBPh6M
>
> > (Jean Hill is on the left, in the plaid dress.)
>
> > Reporter: Did you see, were you a witness, did you see the person who
> > fired the weapon?
> > Jean Hill: No, I didn't see any person fire the weapon.
> > Reporter: You only heard it?
> > Jean Hill: I only heard it.
>
> OK, but I don't know if that is the interview Martin is talking about.
> Nice how you cut out the CONTEXT of where she though the shot came from.
> Does anyone think she was referring to hearing a shot from the TSBD? Or is
> that just the impression that a WC defender wants to leave to mislead
> people?
That's some paranoia you're spouting there.
I refer you to my next to last post (Feb 9, 5:39 pm) in this very thread,
where I included in a list of knoll earwitnesses, "Jean Hill: Heard 4 to 6
Martin Shackelford
John!!!
I realize that you would find that inconvenient.
Martin
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:5mgvo4t3pp0sunc6t...@4ax.com...
yeuhd
wrote:
> It wasn't "a late addition"--it is in a Nov. 22, 1963 interview of her,
> John!!!
> I realize that you would find that inconvenient.
Given that in all other interviews from Nov. 22, 1963 through the
following year, Jean Hill said she saw a man running TOWARD the grassy
knoll AFTER the shooting (and that she followed him), and said nothing
about seeing anyone behind the stockade fence during the shooting, or
a man running AWAY from the grassy knoll — perhaps it's time to ask
for an exact transcription of this audio interview of Jean Hill from
Nov. 22, 1963. Not a reporter's paraphrase of it, not someone else's
paraphrase — her actual, verbatim statements.
Meanwhile, let's run down Jean Hill's other accounts:
Television interview, afternoon of Nov. 22, 1963:
Reporter: Did you see, were you a witness, did you see the person who
fired the weapon?
Jean Hill: No, I didn't see any person fire the weapon.
Reporter: You only heard it?
Jean Hill: I only heard it. And I looked up and saw a man running up
this hill.
Signed affidavit, afternoon of Nov. 22, 1963:
There was an instant pause between the first two shots and the
motorcade seemingly halted for an instant and three or four more shots
rang out and the motorcade sped away. I thought I saw some men in
plain clothes shooting back but everything was such a blur and Mary
was pulling on my leg saying "Get down they are shooting". I looked
across the street and up the hill and saw a man running toward the
monument [the north pergola] and I started running over there. By the
time I got up to the railroad tracks some policeman that I suppose
were [sic] in the motorcade or nearby had also arrived and was turning
us back …
FBI interview, March 13, 1964:
As the President fell forward in his seat Mrs. Hill knew he had shot
by a bullet. Mrs. Hill stated that she heard from four to six shots in
all and believes they came from a spot just west of the Texas School
Book Depository Building. She thought there was a slight time interval
between the first three shots and the remaining shots.
When the firing stopped, Mrs. Hill noticed that everyone in the
vicinity seemed to be in a trance wondering what had happened. Mrs.
Hill recall it was then that she noticed a white man wearing a brown
raincoat and a hat running west away from the Texas School Book
Depository Building in the direction of the railroad tracks. She said
she does not know why but she started across the street in an effort
"to see who he was." In doing so, she ran in front of the motorcycle
escort following the President's car and was nearly hit by one of the
policemen. Mrs. Hill said she lost the man from view when she looked
down at what she first thought was a blood spot but later determined
to be a red snow cone.
Warren Commission deposition, March 24, 1964:
Mr. SPECTER. What occurred at the time of the fourth shot which you
believe you heard?
Mrs. HILL. Well, at that time, of course, there was a pause and I took
the other shots — about that time Mary grabbed me and was yelling and
I had looked away from what was going on here and I thought, because I
guess from the TV and movies, that it was Secret Service agents
shooting back. To me, if somebody shoots at somebody they always shoot
back and so I just thought that that's what it was and I thought,
well, they are getting him and shooting back, you know; I didn't know.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was the President's car at the time you thought you
heard the fourth shot?
Mrs. HILL. The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots
rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not — it
couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just
a very, very short distance from where it had been.
. . . . .
Mr. SPECTER. Were the shots over by that time when things started
moving again?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Then what happened on the scene?
Mrs. HILL. Well, they say Mrs. Kennedy climbed up on the back of the
car.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you observe that?
Mrs. HILL. No; I have seen pictures that show that she must have, but
I ran across the street.
Mr. SPECTER. To the —
Mrs. HILL. Other side.
Mr. SPECTER. North side of Elm Street?
Mrs. HILL. That's right. I saw a man up there running, or getting away
or walking away or something — I would say he was running.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was that man when you first saw him?
Mrs. HILL. He was right up there by the School Depository, just — not
at the corner where they say the shots came from, at the other end,
right up on the slope at the top of the slope.
Mr. SPECTER. Would that be in front of the School Book Depository
Building?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. At the west end?
Mrs. HILL. More to the west end.
Mr. SPECTER. Would it be between the westernmost point of the building
and some other point in the building? Was he at the westernmost point
or farther east than the westernmost point?
Mrs. HILL. I would say he was farther east than the westernmost point.
. . . .
Mr. SPECTER. Now, is the letter "B" now in the position where you were
when you first saw that man?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. Where was that man, indicating with the letter "C," where
he was? He was very close to you?
Mrs. HILL. Well, he was at the top of this hill — you don't leave me
any space in here I mean, there's a distance in here greater than what
is shown here.
Mr. SPECTER. He was between Elm Street and the Depository Building?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Mr. SPECTER. And where did you see him going?
Mrs. HILL. I saw him go toward the tracks, toward the railroad tracks
to the west?
Mr. SPECTER. What did you observe about that man, if anything?
Mrs. HILL. That he just had on a brown overcoat and a hat.
Mr. SPECTER. Why was your attention attracted to him?
Mrs. HILL. Because he was the only thing moving up there. The other
people were all grief stricken and standing there and I don't know
what I would have done with him when I got up there, but I don't know
why I even had the instinct to run, and I don't know that it is
anything even connected with this, but since I had already — I have
told it and it is part of my recollection, I am just stating it again.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, was there anything about the man that attracted
your attention to him beside the fact that he was moving?
Mrs. HILL. I just thought at the time that's the man that did it.
Mr. SPECTER. Why did you think that this was the man that did it?
Mrs. HILL. I just don't know — I mean — that was my thought.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you see any weapon in his hand?
Mrs. HILL. No; I never saw a weapon during the whole time, in anyone's
hand.
. . . .
Mr. SPECTER. Now, did you have a conscious impression of the source of
the first shot that you heard, that is, where it came from?
Mrs. HILL. Well, evidently I didn't because the only conscious
recollection I have of that — I mean — until all this other came out —
I had always thought that they came from the knoll.
Mr. SPECTER. Did you have any conscious impression of where the second
shot came from?
Mrs. HILL. No.
Mr. SPECTER. Any conscious impression of where this third shot came
from?
Mrs. HILL. Not any different from any of them. I thought it was just
people shooting from the knoll — I did think there was more than one
person shooting.
Mr. SPECTER. You did think there was more than one person shooting?
Mrs. HILL. Yes, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. What made you think that?
Mrs. HILL. The way the gun report sounded and the difference in the
way they were fired — the timing.
Mr. SPECTER. What was your impression as to the source of the second
group of shots which you have described as the fourth, perhaps the
fifth, and perhaps the sixth shot?
Mrs. HILL. Well, nothing, except that I thought that they were fired
by someone else.
Mr. SPECTER. And did you have any idea where they were coming from?
Mrs. HILL. No; as I said, I thought they were coming from the general
direction of that knoll.
Mr. SPECTER. Well, did you think that the Secret Service was firing
them from that knoll?
Mrs. HILL. I said I didn't know — I really don't.
Mr. SPECTER. You just had the general impression that shots were
coming from the knoll?
Mrs. HILL. Yes.
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"John McAdams" <john.m...@marquette.edu> wrote in message
news:mkgvo4p2n65fjkagd...@4ax.com...
Anthony Marsh
But make sure that you only selectively quote those Jean Hill interviews
where she says things you want her to say and never quote all the OTHER
interviews where she says things that you do NOT want her to say. That way
we can peg you as a WC defender.
yeuhd
> But make sure that you only selectively quote those Jean Hill interviews
> where she says things you want her to say and never quote all the OTHER
> interviews where she says things that you do NOT want her to say.
That Jean Hill changed her story dramatically about fifteen years
after the assassination, and has continued to embellish her story, is
well known. More here:
http://www.jfk-info.com/whitmey1.htm
Instead, I am talking about the likelihood that she said something on
*November 22, 1963*, as was claimed here, that completely contradicted
what she said in two other interviews she gave *that same day* and in
every subsequent interview she gave in the following year. Martin
Shackelford wrote above, "In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean
Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and mentions SEEING a shot fired from
the grassy knoll." (emphasis added)
I am still waiting for someone to link to an audio recording or a
verbatim transcript of this other interview she is alleged to have
given on Nov. 22, 1963. Not a paraphrase.
bigdog
>
> - Show quoted text -
Of course. We should put a lot of credibility into things she added at
a later date. Even the things that contradicted her earliest
statements.
Anthony Marsh
> On Feb 11, 11:01 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> But make sure that you only selectively quote those Jean Hill interviews
>> where she says things you want her to say and never quote all the OTHER
>> interviews where she says things that you do NOT want her to say.
>
>
> That Jean Hill changed her story dramatically about fifteen years
> after the assassination, and has continued to embellish her story, is
> well known. More here:
> http://www.jfk-info.com/whitmey1.htm
>
> Instead, I am talking about the likelihood that she said something on
> *November 22, 1963*, as was claimed here, that completely contradicted
> what she said in two other interviews she gave *that same day* and in
> every subsequent interview she gave in the following year. Martin
> Shackelford wrote above, "In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean
> Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and mentions SEEING a shot fired from
> the grassy knoll." (emphasis added)
>
If you agree that she kept changing her story, why couldn't she have
changed it several times that day?
yeuhd
> If you agree that she kept changing her story, why couldn't she have
> changed it several times that day?
Because I do *not* agree that Jean Hill "kept changing her story." In
fact, my point is the opposite. Re-read my previous post:
Anthony Marsh
The most important think for you as a WC defender to do is ignore what
she said in the earliest statements and dismiss her as a kook.
Anthony Marsh
Wait a damn minute. Either two possibilities here. First, if you are a WC
defender you are supposed to claim that she kept changing her story. Or
second, how can you pretend not to know that WC defenders keep pointing
out and quoting examples of how she kept changing her story? And I don't
see any contradiction. She saw the shot come from the grassy knoll, but
she did not see the shooter in the act of shooting. She thought it might
be the man she saw running.
yeuhd
> And I don't
> see any contradiction. She saw the shot come from the grassy knoll, but
> she did not see the shooter in the act of shooting.
Jean Hill "saw the shot come from the grassy knoll"? As in, saw the bullet
itself flying through the air?
Because in the television interview and the signed affidavit she gave on
Nov. 22, 1963, and in other interviews she gave during the subsequent
year, she said she saw NO ONE shooting a weapon, and said nothing about
seeing anyone behind the fence on the grassy knoll, and said nothing about
seeing gun smoke anywhere. And she said the "suspicious" man she saw
immediately afterward was running *from* a point in front of the TSBD and
*toward* the grassy knoll (more specifically, toward the north pergola).
David Von Pein
>>> "She saw the shot come from the grassy knoll, but she did not see the shooter in the act of shooting." <<<
I guess Tony must think Jean saw the bullet in mid-air as it went from
the Knoll to JFK's body.
Tell me HOW a person could SEE a shot coming from a particular
place...and yet NOT see any signs of a gunman.
A neat trick if you can do it.
yeuhd
> On 2/13/2009 1:42 PM, yeuhd wrote:
>
> > On Feb 12, 8:41 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> If you agree that she kept changing her story, why couldn't she have
> >> changed it several times that day?
>
> > Because I do *not* agree that Jean Hill "kept changing her story." In
> > fact, my point is the opposite. Re-read my previous post:
>
> > Instead, I am talking about the likelihood that she said something on
> > *November 22, 1963*, as was claimed here, that completely
> > contradicted
> > what she said in two other interviews she gave *that same day* and in
> > every subsequent interview she gave in the following year.
>
> defender you are supposed to claim that she kept changing her story. Or
> second, how can you pretend not to know that WC defenders keep pointing
> out and quoting examples of how she kept changing her story?
I refer you to my earlier post above:
"That Jean Hill changed her story dramatically about FIFTEEN YEARS
after the assassination, and has continued to embellish her story, is
well known. More here:
http://www.jfk-info.com/whitmey1.htm
"Instead, I am talking about the likelihood that she said something on
Anthony Marsh
I see no problem with any witness saying different things to different
interviewers on the same day.
Anthony Marsh
Not the same thing. One can see signs of a shot coming from somewhere
without seeing the gunman. How many people actually saw Whitman? But
there was no doubt about where the shots were coming from.
And I am not here to defend every stupid thing that Jean Hill said.
Just pointing out what she actually did say.
Anthony Marsh
> On Feb 13, 11:19 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> And I don't
>> see any contradiction. She saw the shot come from the grassy knoll, but
>> she did not see the shooter in the act of shooting.
>
> Jean Hill "saw the shot come from the grassy knoll"? As in, saw the bullet
> itself flying through the air?
>
No, she did not say that she saw the BULLET come from the grassy knoll.
> Because in the television interview and the signed affidavit she gave on
> Nov. 22, 1963, and in other interviews she gave during the subsequent
> year, she said she saw NO ONE shooting a weapon, and said nothing about
> seeing anyone behind the fence on the grassy knoll, and said nothing about
> seeing gun smoke anywhere. And she said the "suspicious" man she saw
> immediately afterward was running *from* a point in front of the TSBD and
> *toward* the grassy knoll (more specifically, toward the north pergola).
>
That's wonderful, but Martin was pointing out an additional statement
which you knew nothing about.
yeuhd
> And I am not here to defend every stupid thing that Jean Hill said.
> Just pointing out what she actually did say.
"She actually did say"? But you admit you have *not* heard the
recording. And neither you nor nobody else here has been able to
provide a verbatim transcript.
David Von Pein
RE: Jean Hill Interview:
This might be the "other" interview you're seeking. The complete Jean
Hill/WBAP interview is presented at the following link. It's about one-
fifth of the way into this audio file of NBC-TV coverage:
Anthony Marsh
Is this audio the same as the TV special As It Happened?
There are also transcripts at the Kennedy Library of TV coverage which
never aired.
FYI, this is transcribed on pages 237-238 of Pictures of the Pain.
Anthony Marsh
Yes, I have. Several times. Pages 237-238 of Pictures of the Pain.
http://www.jfk-info.com/whitmey3.htm
WBAP-TV (Fort Worth/Dallas NBC affiliate) Interviews
FIRST JEAN HILL INTERVIEW - WBAP-TV (FT. WORTH)
Broadcast over NBC at 1:11 p.m. C.S.T.
Q. "What is your name ma'am?''
A. "Jean Hill.''
Q. "From Dallas?"
A. "That's right."
Q. "Did you hear the shooting, Miss?"
A. "Yes sir."
Q. "Could you describe what happened?"
A. "Yes Sir.''
Q. "Will you do that now?"
"Ah...They were driving along...ah...and we were the only people in this
area, on our side and the shots came from directly across the street from
us, and just as the president's car became directly even with us, we...we
took one look at him and he was sitting there - he and Jackie were looking
at a dog that was in the middle of the...seat, and about that time two
shots rang out just as he looked up - just as the president looked up -
and these two shots rang out, as he grabbed his chest, and... looked like
he was in pain, and he fell over the seat, and Jackie fell over on him and
said, 'My God he's been, shot!"
Q. "Ah..have.."
A. "...And after that more shots rang out and the car sped away."
Q. "What kind of car was that?"
A. "What kind of car was it? The president's car.'
Q. "Well, no...Where did the shots come from?"
A. "The shots came from the hill."
Q. "From the hill?"
A. "Yes..ah..It was just east of the underpass ... and we were on the
south side."
Q. "Did you see..could you..did you look up there where the shots came
from, ma'am?"
A. "Yes Sir.''
Q. "Could you see anyone?"
A. "I thought I saw this man running, but I looked at the president, you
know, for a while, and I looked up there and I thought I saw a man running
and so, right after that, I guess I didn't have any better sense, I
started running up there too." (Note: along with many others.)
Q. "Ah, huh. And what is your name?"
A. "Jean Hill."
Q. "G-E-A-N?"
A. "J-E-A-N."
Q. "J-E-A-N ... And what is your address?"
A. "9402 Bluffcreek."
SECOND JEAN HILL INTERVIEW - WBAP/NBC-TV
(Film interview shown on Nov. 22, 1963)
"...Just as Mary started to take the picture (shown), and the president
became..came right even with us, two shots - we looked at him and he was
looking at a dog in the middle of the seat two shots rang out and he
grabbed his chest, and a look of pain on his face, and fell across towards
Jackie, and she..ah..fell over on him and said, "My God, he's shot!"
and..ah..there was an interval and then three or more shots rang out..by
that time, the motorcade had sped away."
(Note: Mary Moorman asked why she took the picture "at that particular
instance" and whether she knew the president had been shot - she didn't.)
Q. "Did you see..were you a witness..did you see the person who..who
fired the..?"
A. "No, not..I didn't see any person fire the weapon."
Q. "You only heard it."
A. "I only heard it..and I looked up and I saw a man running up this
hill."
Q. "Ah..you had no idea ... you couldn't...
A. "No..I had no idea..and nothing to go by..I mean, I do n't think it
dawned on me for an instance that the president had been shot..I mean, I
knew, and yet it just didn't register."
(Note: Mary is asked if she got a look at the fence - she didn't; she also
indicated having dropped to the ground immediately.)
_________________________
Now, pretend that you didn't just read the transcript I just provided, as
if you had never seen it before. And then claim that I make specious
claims and never back them up with evidence. Then run away and log on in a
few months under a different alias and bring up the subject again and
claim that I never posted the message I just posted and demand that I
prove my claim by posting a transcript of what she said. And claim that I
never post anything to back up my claims and you are under no obligation
to look up the old messages where I did.
yeuhd
> On 2/14/2009 5:01 PM, yeuhd wrote:
> > "She actually did say"? But you admit you have *not* heard the
> > recording. And neither you nor nobody else here has been able to
> > provide a verbatim transcript.
>
> Yes, I have. Several times.
I refer you to your own post earlier in this thread.
On Feb 8, 10:54 pm, Anthony Marsh <anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I have not listened to the interview Martin is citing, so I can't verify
> what she said and how she said it. I had never run across her explicitly
> saying that she SAW a shot fired from the grassy knoll. I await further
> information.
And to the Martin Shackelford post you referenced:
On Feb 7, 12:38 pm, "Martin Shackelford" <msha...@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
> In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and
> mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
So which is it: You have — or you have not — listened to the interview
Martin Shackelford is citing?
> Now, pretend that you didn't just read the transcript I just provided, as
> if you had never seen it before. And then claim that I make specious
> claims and never back them up with evidence. Then run away and log on in a
> few months under a different alias and bring up the subject again and
> claim that I never posted the message I just posted and demand that I
> prove my claim by posting a transcript of what she said.
Paranoid much?
Anthony Marsh
> On Feb 15, 11:29 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> On 2/14/2009 5:01 PM, yeuhd wrote:
>>> "She actually did say"? But you admit you have *not* heard the
>>> recording. And neither you nor nobody else here has been able to
>>> provide a verbatim transcript.
>> Yes, I have. Several times.
>
>
> I refer you to your own post earlier in this thread.
>
> On Feb 8, 10:54 pm, Anthony Marsh<anthony_ma...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I have not listened to the interview Martin is citing, so I can't verify
>> what she said and how she said it. I had never run across her explicitly
>> saying that she SAW a shot fired from the grassy knoll. I await further
>> information.
>
> And to the Martin Shackelford post you referenced:
>
> On Feb 7, 12:38 pm, "Martin Shackelford"<msha...@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
>> In the Earthstation CD audio files, Jean Hill is interviewed on Nov. 22, and
>> mentions seeing a shot fired from the grassy knoll.
>
>
> So which is it: You have — or you have not — listened to the interview
> Martin Shackelford is citing?
>
As I said before a few times, Martin did not specify exact which
interview he was talking about.
>
>> Now, pretend that you didn't just read the transcript I just provided, as
>> if you had never seen it before. And then claim that I make specious
>> claims and never back them up with evidence. Then run away and log on in a
>> few months under a different alias and bring up the subject again and
>> claim that I never posted the message I just posted and demand that I
>> prove my claim by posting a transcript of what she said.
>
>
> Paranoid much?
>
Just observant.
Martin Shackelford
Martin
"Anthony Marsh" <anthon...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:4999aa76$1...@mcadams.posc.mu.edu...
yeuhd
> >> Now, pretend that you didn't just read the transcript I just provided, as
> >> if you had never seen it before. And then claim that I make specious
> >> claims and never back them up with evidence. Then run away and log on in a
> >> few months under a different alias and bring up the subject again and
> >> claim that I never posted the message I just posted and demand that I
> >> prove my claim by posting a transcript of what she said.
>
> > Paranoid much?
>
> Just observant.
FYI, I have never posted in this forum under anything but "yeuhd".