Judyth: From the Beginning, Part 10
Dave Reitzes
Subj: test
Date: 10/6/00 12:46:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Americanwebworks
To: Dreitzes
Dear Dave---I really feel for you, seeing how you have been attacked.
i am -j-. If you will promise to receive what i have to say in
confidentiality, i would like to send you an email.
If not, just say so. But I feel Iyou and i have both been through a
lot from the newsgroup.
OK....hopeflly, you will reply.
-j- (Martin can verify this is me if you are worried about it by
sending an email to my USUAL address. i will get it and respond)
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Subj: Re: test
Date: 10/6/00 3:49:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Americanwebworks
To: Dreitzes
CC: Howpl
In a message dated 10/06/2000 12:20:44 AM Central Daylight Time,
Dreitzes writes:
> Judyth,
>
> I would not object to receiving e-mail from you, and any such correspondence
> would be kept strictly confidential.
>
> Please be advised that I am trying to abstain from the current newsgroup
> brouhaha, as I don't think such exchanges are especially productive.
>
> Dave
==you're not the only one...I am just heartsick that i am not going to
be given a chance to just say what happened in a simple way....OK,
Dave, i believe you, because Howard has told me you're trsutworthy
(oh, Debra conway told me David Lifton was trustworthy, too. She told
me he had been working on a book . i know the name of the title of his
book, even 9or at leats, what it was Jan.. 2000). Debra told me how
many years he had worked on it, and how it would support much of what
i had been talking about, in her opinion. She contacted robert
Chapman, they talked about it, then told Lifton to contact me. i never
initiated anything, but everything gets twisted on the newsgroup.
I did not know where to turn when i decided, after my last child
left home, to write everything down.
i do not need books, and read nothing, just marina and lee because
she was the other woman.
it was so outrageous, some of what i read in there, that all the old
feelings came rushing back. i knew everything that had been going on,
she knew almost nothing, and much was misrepresented. especially
9laughable) his being home all the time).
Anyway, i had avoided looking at everything. it literally made me
sick. i had seen him shot on TV and had a blackout. When i tried to
think about him, I had flashbacks to his murder. So i jusy blocked it
out. Sometimes when i talk about it, which am doing for the first
time, it is as if it happened to somebody else. And then suddenly i
smell something, or hear a word or a name, if they ask me something,
and suddenly, i can;t keep it far away any more, and then i start to
cry. for this, mr. Lifton made fun of me.
I had no idea where to go at first.
my children? They were raised by me, four of them., as a single
parent. three became valedictorians. i swore they would all have their
chance to succeed, i was not going to impede them by blighting their
names and lives with what had happened to me.
I was trained to become a research scientist. i attracted national
attention when only sixteen by inventing a new metod to get magnesium
out of seawater, and i was also doing cancer research with doctors
trained at Oak Ridge. To make a long story short, being located in
Florida, I dated Tony Lopex-Fresquet (son of Rufo L-F, finance
minister in Fidel's cabinet) who had fled with his American mother
along with his brother, Vincent, and i learned about the Ruston
coalition against Castro. i became interested in canceling Castro out
after more experiences, not the leats was having castro aim missiles
at me and my parents in Florida, if you see what I mean.
I knew important people, and in indianapolis got conscripted into
the CIA though was just a minor. i was trained in cancer research
techniques, and I have tousands of detials from 1960 through January
of 1964.
My life was destroyed when i was asked to go to New Orleans from
gainesville, FL spring of 1963. I met lee, but in rebellion eloped
with a man i thought I loved. they fixed that--sent him offshore
almost entire summer, and out of the way, and continued to us eme. i
was used, used, and so was Lee.
It is impossible to go into the kind of details that you would
wish to hear. it takes hours to get it all to somebody. Plus, i have
proof of my special training, and links to New orleans. as a cover, i
was put on at Reily's--me, a trained research technologist, working
with Monagahn as his finance and credit adssistant! but i warped up
lee's records for them there, and many other things, worked with INCA
people, and Ochsner was the common link there.
David Lifton gave me less than an hour and a half, plus another
half hour asking about the book, etc.
i am not interested in maing any money or peddling a book. I got an
agent hoping to get the book i wrote--which put everything down in
detail before i talked to anybody, and then had a professor keep a
truncated version of it in caseanything happened to me--that shows i
have never deviated from my account from the first. however, if people
ask me something, i will add information. For exakple, Debra Conway
asked me intimate questions about Lee, since she knew information from
things i never knew existed. Example: was lee circumcized? (no). The
pointnis that whatever i might not have thought to put down, if
somebody asked, i emailed them, usually with a witness (John, kelly,
Sarah, cassie, etc.) present, so that there was proof i wasn;t
'looking it up.' i have NO books, Dave.
i don;t need any books.
I've got it all in my head.
I mixed some things up. i remembered Sam Termine as Sam Terminator
and knew it wasn;t right, finally somebody mentioned termine and
bingo, i recognized it. usually, though, I am asked something and
respond at once in reply to somebody asking more details.
For example, litrtle things like when lee and i walked together, our
wedding bands clicked, which embarrassed me, and him, so he moved the
band to his other hand, or, more often, we walked with his left hand
holding my right hand instead of his right hand holding my left hand.
little things like that in my memory.
I had been trained to speak some Russian, all is verified, and i
have photos proving i looked like marina. i often passed as her. lee
and i hit it off: i was marina's exact height, figure, and same eyes,
eybrows, even hairline. of course, we were not the same women. I am
not nearly so moody.
There is no possible way that mr. Lifton could get a smidgen of
the details. martin said he has a stack of email messages four feet
high. Martin does not have ALL the messages. Howard has the most.
Thousands of answers to questions, chronologies, yes, new names, new
faces, where they fit in, and atop this, David, i have witnesses on
tape, half a dozen mag=fia people here where i live who will testify
who I was, for they all knew about me at least by rumor, and a witness
also on film as well as tape. And that witness doesn't just say they
knew me. this person talks for almost fifteen minutes about the things
we all did together .
There is much more.
private investigators for almost three months now have looked
into every aspect of my life, into every nook and cranny, and
especially into the leads i gave them. The evidence is rolling in.
Because there are people lwho will make fun, lie, and distort, no
doubt I will never be believed by some percentage of the people.
lookmwhat they've said about the ex-lax thing. they twisted it all
around. we were trying to save JFK, you don;t have to believe me.
i wouldn;t believe me, Dave, if i hadn;t gone through it.
You wouldn;t believe the life i have led. I and husband joined Mormon
churcvh. i wanted my sins washed away. Sins of having cheated on this
man whose name protected me from death. they would have killed me if i
had so much as lifted my head.
By becoming a Mormon, i subsumed myself into a society that was
totally isolated from my old world.
And there I stayed.
In 1986, i got a degree at last, after 25 long years--here i had been
the smartest, highest IQ in state of Florida, and didn;t get my degree
for 25 years! but i was terrified to do so.
Anyway, i had learned in 13 yrs. time to translate Egyptian, found
out documents of the Mormon church "translated from ancient Egyptian"
were hoax translations, confronted the chuch, and asked for
excommunication.
my former husband divorced me a year later, because he believes I'm
going to hell. it was an ethical matter, a matter of integrity. My
former husband is a miollionaire lving in Houston who, in bitterness,
fought hard to pry the children away. he did not get them, i am a
tiger when it coms to them.
So only one of the children ended up, ultimately, Mormon. But i
went into poverty. i did not dare risk background checks, and had no
way to use my mormon friends as reference because had been
excommunicated. I dared to tell news media my story and a subsoifdiary
of BBC made a film in England about me, and I also had a film made in
israel onthe mount of Olives, and appeared all over by satellite,
live, besides. Received death threats from mormon fanatics (I'm dead
meat if you are a Mormon, aren't I?--yet Joseph Smith faked the
translation of the ook of Abraham, and i proved it!). mark Hoffman and
the mormon bombings will give you an idea, if you look on internet, of
what i risked.
I did it under name of J.J. Michael and other fake names becauseof
the danger that they'd find my maiden name.
If i would roisk all to uncover the mormon hoax like that, and lose
a 24 year marriage, do you think i would destroy the reputation I have
as a woman of honor and integrity to pretend i had been lee's
mistress? Do you have any idea how distressful it has been to bring
this up, especially to my super-conservative family? Several of my
children are so offended. one son refuses to speak to me.
So i could go on and on.
I have documents, proof of residence, some of Lee's handwriting,
proof of reily's, but most important, proof of special training, and
that i looked like marina, and indeed, i am the 'woman" that was in
jackson with lee, on and on, there's much, much more.
I thought to take it to my grave because thought they would never
open up the files. I knew nothing except that Lee had been blamed, and
knowing all along what would happen if he didn;t get out of there in
time, I knew he would be lied aout, etc. and could not stomach looking
into any of it. i am not morbid like that. All i hadto do was mention
his name and i could see the reactions of disgust or anger or
puzzlement, so i needed nothing else to test the waters.
Anyway, if you would meet me (others have done so--i realize it is
expensive, but if you spend two days, you get a good batch of
information, and you also see all the evidence). i have asked people
to do this. if they come, they believe. Why? You know i am not lying
when you talk to me.
You see what i have. You learn details that do not vary, that's why
Lifton;s stuff looks so bad right now. There's a quote there about ex-
lax *(besides, i think it was feen-a-mint!) but to not sound absurd,
the problem is that this is one of the most important quotes, burned
into my brain, and it makes me cry when i think of it, yet Lifton made
fun of me for sarting to cry, and he also MISQUOTED the quote, causing
some people to think that lee wanted to kill JFK and inspiring some to
think i was glad to see it and put out chairs to see it at the lab,
and all of that, how gross.
Davoid Blackburst politely declined to get information forsthand
from me: i aslked him to come look. People have done so: about thirty-
five, altoegther, twenty-five taking enough time to do it right.
Major persons in news media have also spent days with me,
interrogating me. these expert interviewers know when people are
lying. Further, they recognize truth, their whole journalistic
reputation, etc. depends upon it.
please forgive my typos, i have a rebuilt back and some nerve damage
in my left arms and both hands.
If you come, you will become like a brother to me, because I will
pour out my heart, and you will see what i have been through, which is
an awful lot, and you will sense, and learn, and then make up your
mind about if i could tell you such massive untruths. i am not perfect
and make mistakes, those, too, i bring up freely.
For example, I thought Lee told me about a Sawtooth Mountain that
somebody asked me about, and i said, yes, that was the mountain. well,
it was not.....I went into a box and looked at the postcard he had
given me, and it was BEARtooth Mountain. So it did not match with
this rumor, convcenient as that might have been for what I owned. It
had to be just exactly right.....This is an example of my correcting
something I reported wrong. And i will do that again rather than
report anything erroneously.
strangely, Debra Conway got to see about half the stuff and visited
me perhaps half a day and a couple hours that night as we lay talking
in the dark, talking about Lee. Anyway, she believes everything up to
where i stopped talking to her and stopped showing her lots of
evidence. She doesn't believe Lee would contact me. I reminded her
that hurricane Flora had devastated Cuba, and it was a greatdisaster
that Castro still remembered years after. But when i first brought up
how hurricane Flora wrecked the penetration plan into Cuba, everybody
said, HUH? What hurricane?
And so on....
There is much more. Again, i ask for confidentiality (mainly against
fools, look what they do with it on internet!) . God bless you,Dave.
Judyth V. Baker
I hope you are above some of the ways of some critters on the
net. it's 3 am, i am tired, and have 170 papers to grade. i teach
English at UL, am not merely a student, though getting a degree in
literature, a doctorate.....and in linguistics.....got disgusted at
how you were attacked. I hope your m---pooey, i just fell asleeep at
the keyboard...later, then, if you are game.... j
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Subj: confidential
Date: 10/7/00 2:55:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: Americanwebworks
To: Dreitzes
In a message dated 10/07/2000 2:21:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
Dreitzes writes:
> Because of the bad blood that exists between me and Lifton, it's probably
> better that I refrain from comment about him specifically.
>
> If Judyth decides to share her story with me, I'll try to take it as it
> comes. Also, as I've said before, I will keep all communications in the
> strictest of confidence.
>
Dear Dave--
I believe you.
Bad blood between you and Mr. Lifton?
I sure wish I had known he would have just listed the objections he
said he had which he listed for others. Yet he would not respond to my
queries as to what these were. And he asked almost no questions, how
could i respond to any objections?
If i were being "handled" by Howard or martin or anybody, you wouldn;t
see howard saying this to you. it's true that I am almost worn out
with interrogations from the investigators who are at me right now, on
top of trying to finish my doctorate, teach classes, and handling the
usual family and other problems that occur in anybody's life.
I spent ten hours being interrogated by a expert in AIDS-HIV
yesterday. Everything from how to use an electron microscope to how we
initially piggybacked polyoma virus to a radioactively challenged (my
term!) modified SIV-40 and then modified that phenotype to a more
lethal varety. In other words, my story involves a lot of technical
material as well as what I suppose people would call strictly
historic.
I noticed that even though you have always seemed to stand very close
to Dr. McAdams, you were waiting until you got more to go on before
making comments, and I began to think over the fact that you had a
mind of your own (forgive me, hard to tell with some of the people
over there).
I believe it's worth the investment in time and what strength I have
left to talk to you. I broke my back seventeen years ago, and I have
rather chronic pain (do not take any medications, though, because it
affects ability to think well, you know). nevertheless, I have to
fight pain each waking hour. The other factor is that I fought
mormonism for years, uncovering its cult-like problems (I hope you are
not Mormon and are not offended). I had felt very guilty about my
affair with lee, the work we did trying to kill Castro, and marrying
my husband as a cover 9we had no children for five years, even). When
the missionaries came by and ta;lked about baptism, a new start in
life, and marriage in the temple taking place of the old one, it
sounded so fine to me that I joined and got Robert to join, too. he
became--so did I--a staunch Mormon.
Much of my life was spent after that in isolation in a deeply mormon
context. I was able to forget the past I couldn;t change or handle,
and In plunged into the church with all my heart. But after seventeen
years, I asked to be excommunicated on matter of principle and of
integrity, after having learned how to translate ancient egyptian (my
first degree is in anthropology and linguistics). By now i had five
children. I had translated The Book of Abraham papyrus in part, enough
to uncover founder Joseph Smith as a blooming fake.
I --under aliases--made films in Europe and Israel and was on
satellite-covered TV programs all over the US and Canada about the
fakery, and my life was endangered by mormon fanatics. Further, my
husband (by now we were wealthy) divorced me for my 'devilish
denunciations" and said i was going to hell.
I found myself being sued for the next eight years in six lawsuits by
him as he desperately tried to get the kids away and make sure they
would be raised mormon. he failed, but I went trough banruptcy in
defending them and their right to choose their own religion (one of
the four decided to stay mormon, without being coerced; the others are
not). As a single parent raising these four, three of whom graduated
valedictorians of their classes, all of whom have now gone after their
degrees and have showered honor upon themselves, I had no opportunity,
either, to talk about my past, and indeed it might have caused the
kids to be take from me.
In fact, not until my last child left home had I at last any
opportunity. I began writing the record down the day my last child
left for her honeymoon. it was finished 60 days later and I went to a
professor at the university here, after trying to go to a newspaper
editor (who would not even listen to me). I found that i was tongue-
tied, frightened, and almost physically unable to speak aloud about
any of it. Having forbidden myself to even think of these things in
order to save my life (whether you believe that or not, I was under
the eye of the mafia for years), I found myself frequently bursting
into tears and trembling all over when talking about this.
The relief of actually disposing of some of this burden after carrying
it so long is like getting part of your mind back. It is a section of
myself that i walled off almost complteley. Everybody close to me knew
I had known Lee, for years, and had worked with him at Reily's. But
only my sister knew (I told her 1965) some of the additional details,
including Lee's deep infiltration into the plotter's ring. I do not
ask you to believe this, Dave, but just that you give me a cance.
Howard is right that I am giving you possibly the last scraps of time
and energy I have, yet I see you as a welcome addition in that you
have an attitude from the other side, so to speak, and yet are giving
me a chance. That means a lot to me.
Howard and martin, I have to tell you, would ask me questions and i
would answer them by email, and they would not give me feedback, would
not say if I were right or wrong. I encouraged this myself until very
recently, until everything i knew was in their hands. When there was
something they didn't understand, they asked more questions and i
answered in greater etail. Long stretches of time between some
questions would go by as they asked additional ones, then would come
back around to one. meanwhile, I was spending all my time going for a
doctorate here in 18th century literature and linguistics, teaching,
and also working on the side. I often had to correspond with them
after midnight because there was no time. I tried to have a witness
with me when i opened the email. I did this so that the witnesses
(there are three of them) could testify that I opened the email and
saw the questions and answered these questions right away, without
having to "look something up" or any of that nonsense.
if you came to my home, as a major TV network produicer just did
yesterday, you would see that i do not own but three books, all of
them recently given to me, about the assassination, and for weeks
these books have been in the possession of this producer. one of those
three books i've had for only a month, the gift of debra Conway.
Another was a gift from Howard back in January, but somebody borrowed
it and I didn;t see it again for months. The point I am trying to make
is that neither Howard nor martin gave me information, and I haven;t
the time or strength to go hunting for any--I am also in an isolated
area to go outt and get any information. Even though the Warren
Commission report is available here, i did not know it for a long
time, since I had been told only 5,000 copies were out and did not
think it was available here. It was available here, but even then,
because the university library was under construction,.I finally got
to see some of these with my own eyes months after writing the book. I
did find some things on the internet after Martin showed me how to do
some power searches, after I had already given them everything they
could think of, and we began a second round of going into lots of
little details. We recently completed probably the last of these
rounds. It has involved thousands of emails. i would get a question
such as, describe the car Carlos Marcello drove personally. And I
knew. Or, what was the layout of 4905 Magaizne St. apartment inside?
Or, personal things about Marina that she could verify (Debra Conway
and others who know marina were able to verify some of these, the
others have to wait, or are so embarrassing that Marina may never
verify, such as the fact that she chewed food in her mouth to feed
their baby with, which disgusted Lee). I have to say that if either
Howard or Martin or the other half dozen persons (yes, there are six
others who also were in on the questioning, in the same vein, and all
knowing about the others)-- if any of them had found errors, do you
think they would stand with me like this?
I know what you mean about finances. Even though I am being flown
every weekend, recently, to different places to be --well--
interrogated, by some new expert or somebody who used to be with the
CIA, or you name it--and even though they pay expenses, I have
absolutely nothing left for any kind of travel myself. however, if you
had got into this earlier, you would have been able to go to Tampa
next week, where Martin, Howard, Josiah, Peter (major news media), Ed,
Carol, another Howard (who is CIA-connected), and Brian (major news
media) are all going to go at me again en masse. I don;t have any
anxieties because I lived through these events, and it is as simple as
that. However, it is exhausting, and it has made it impossible to
have the normal social life with friends and family that I had prior
to this.
I have also had serious hacking problems. i have had strange emails
supposedly from me, and have verified that my identities have
occasionally been broken into, so I cannot verify every single thing
that is out there as having come from me, so be careful. I have had
my office broken into three times, a computer stolen from my car, I
have hole in my windshield and headlight from being struck with rocks
or bullets, don't know which, and i have received death threats. i get
anywhere from one or two to the most was 39 hang-up calls, and have
had to change my telephone number several times just this year, as
well as my email servers, first from sprint to eatel and finally to
aol, where at least i can use a variety of screen names and keep
changing passwords.
I thank you for your interest and patience. My first contact with the
government, i suppose, was when i was fifteen. My dad had received
full clearance, and our whole family, to work on the redstone rocket
project, but my mom turned this down and we moved to Florida (she
didn;t want to live inside a caged-in compound in the middle of a
desert near Albuquerque!). This broke my dad's heart and he began to
drink excessively and became an alcoholic. My grandmother died of
cancer, who was my dear friend through this, and I was determined to
become a doctor and conquer cancer.
Sputnik went up, and a CIA-connected geneticist and radiaiton
specialist (Dr. Canute Michaelson, tutor to the Norwegian royal
family and a former underground figthter against Hitler) who had just
come from Russia and who lived in Norway (why i have always been
interested in these two countries) --who was a friend of my physics
teacher and seminar mentor, Col. Philip Doyle, came to Manatee H.S. in
Bradenton. he was impressed with me: I was tested one of the 20 most
intelligent (IQ, that is) in state of Florida, and when given
additional tests, maybe one of smartest in the country, which accorded
me amazing attention which did best to avoid. Michaelson gave my name
to the CIA as one of the bright brains in the country, and from that
time on, I had access to equipment, funds, you name it, as well as
special training involving doctors who got trained at Oak Ridge. yes,
it's all documented.
Newspaper articles giving additional details of my specialized
training in esoteric research areas in cancer, cell culture, and
radiation studies would follow me for the next several years as I
first invented, age 16, a new way to get magnesium from seawater, and
then, my cancer research projects came under scrutiny and I was sent
to buffalo, NY and other places to get the most advanced training then
available, though I was only seventeen.
In short--and i can fill in many details--I had gone through projects
starting in indianapolis with my being, apparently, conscripted into
service of the CIA. I sa apparently because i was a minor, and my
father may have signed papers for me. I signed a lot of them, but I
did not even bother to read them. they gave me the equipment and
support and everything from hundreds of mice to exotic chemicals. One
i will repeat right here: 2-alpha-methyl-dihydrotestosterone
propionate (2MDHTP). it's an antiradioactive steroid I used to deflect
x-irradiation through cancerous tissues to double X-ray exposure
efficacy.
Anyway, i was finally sent to New Orleans. There it was discovered
that i bore a striking resemblance to Marina Oswald, and-- I should
add, and haven't given you so many, many details---but can prove all
of them---I became involved in a get-Castro project involving lung
cancer.
I know you are way behind here, and this all sounds very strange.
IDavid Lifton got so few details in the mere hour and a half we talked
about this (the rest was about his book).
before i go any further in details, I have to say that you haven;t
seen any evidence or documentation of anything. But you may have many
questions. i have often, lately, gone to your website and seen the
information you have posted there. I know you never knew Lee or even
saw him in the flesh, but he has been much maligned. Also we knew
he'd probably be killed. As he said, he made his bed and would lay in
it. He was the one whose heart swelled with desire to serve his
country, just as did mine (my first publication when age 15 was a poem
about the American flag!). I can tell you so much about him. We had
so much in common, from loving Notre Dame (or any!!!!) football, to
fishing, and dogs, and horses and astronomy--I am on record for loving
all the same things he did, and we were drawn to each other
immediately, immediately. I was trained to speak Russian and looked
like Marina--same height, same weight, same figure, same color eyes,
and at one time i could even mimic her very voice. This everyone
thought extraordinary, and on a number of occasions the "woman" seen
with Lee--as in Jackson--was me. yes, i can thoroughly explain why i
was there. I have to say we were young--i was far more naive thahn
he. Even to get me up to par, Lee took out some library books that are
giveaways--such as something called, i think, "What You Should (Must?)
Know Abpout Communism" because he said he couldn;t have a decent
conversation with me about Marxism, etc. He was an anthropologically-
oriented, self-constructed marxist who deplored communism and didn;t
like the excesses of capitalism, either. But he loved his country and
appreciated the freedom that were possible in this country. He was
loyal, and he paid with his life for it.
I don't expect you to believe everything I am saying, and really, if
you don;t see the evidence I have, such as what I looked like compared
to marina, and all the newspaper articles, the names names, the
letters from scientists and American cancer society officials working
with me, etc. you might well jump to conclusions as mr. :Lifton did.
but what was cruel about his attitude is that he never told me what he
objected to. He just took notes. Then he told others what he objected
to, and never contacted me again.
I knew at once that this meant trouble, since he'd spent 25% of the so-
called interview 9the sortest i ever spent with anyone purporting to
be seriously interested--the average interview, as everyone else will
tell you, is three hours, and i have spoken via phone as long as six
hours--several persons have had nine to fifteen hours of
conversatiuons with me broken by a few days rest. I can say
considerably more via phone than by email, and in person, I have the
documentary evidence, in six albums and notebooks). In other words,
Mr. Lifton treated me dishonestly by not giving me a chance to respond
to his objections, nor did he give me anywhere near an adequate length
of time to promulgate to him my actual activities in a way that would
adequately render to him enough factually-related and integrated
components of my testimony necessary to acquire the untrammeled
ability to make an unprejudiced decision as to my veracity.
That is dishonest of him. Because of this, i would not trust and would
hold suspoicion about the depth of his inquiries, the accuracy of his
information garnered from witnesses, and would also ask myself what is
his agenda.
I do not know what your interest in this whole matter arises from, but
I had virtually no choice in the matter. I was thrust into it. By the
time i got out, it had ruined my life. instead of being the brilliant
research scientist who wanted to help hmankind, I his in mormonism,
became a "supermom" and mental health counselor for Mormons, a
newspaper reporter where i coudn;t cause trouble, and a viirtual
mormon brood mare, having three babies, for example, in three years.
My breaking my back probably made it possible to stop at five! (fell
down the stairs)
I understand how easy it is to believe stuff like i saw written in the
Warren Commission about lLee. I did read Marina and Lee, and what a
jerk this writer is. I can tell you why lee was miserable at end of
August, why he was weeping, why he got depressed. You should have seen
me at that same time period. We could have been twins. We were
separated, Dave, but we loved each other. We stayed in contact and I
have the record of the $400 cash he gave me--and the contact i had
with Eglin AFB to be flown to him to Mexico, if he made it out alive.
He knew he probably wouldn't. He had nobody to confide in but me. But
in me he did confide. I have names, and some have been verified.
this Paul Hoch test matter? Oh, yes, Dave, i have new names all
right. I have a host of them who were peripherally involved and linked
in the CIA efforts to kill castro, and these links link to the well-
known ones. Do you think I would still be interogated (now every
single weekend) for months if I had REAL flaws in my story? While many
things I have said cannot be verified, many others have been, and it
is new information proving i was there and on the inside of that
project. Further, many puzzling matters that were not able to be
explained now make sense.
Usually, you would be surprised at how simple some of the answers
are. it would amaze you. Other explanation include information that
people didn;t know about, such as what really went on at Spring Hill
and why the Jesuits 9esp. remember McAdams works at Marquette, please)
are uptight about anybody knowing certain things.
because i had wanted to become a nun and was frustrated in that
attempt (I don;t know whether I gave you the background to that--have
not had a chance to look back at what you've already been told), Dave
Ferrie and i became friends as well. I was a medical liason between
Ferrie's "cancer lab" and what was really being done there, connecting
this with Dr. Alton Ochsner (INCA co-founder with Ed Butler, he was
pres. of American Cancer Society same time "Wild Bill" Donovan, one of
his very best friends, was Vice pres. of American cancer Society--
Donovan founder of CIA, as i am sure you know).. My American cancer
Society/Hational institute of health and other ties to Ochsner are
secure, through his close friend Dr. George Moore, another pioneer
against smoking and expert on lung cancer, who ran Roswell park
memorial Institute for Cancer research (as it was then called), now
called Roswell Institute, i think.
Well, that's all I can say for awhile. Howard or martin, while my
friends, do not control to whom i write or talk or what i say or
anything at all, tough I value their kindness in giving me advice.
And I am absolutely overwhelmed right now, getting only about four
hours sleep every night, I have so much work to do. So those are the
logistics, and it includes an attempt by an unscrupulous agent I
unwqisely got, who is trying to take lifetime v=conbtrol of my life
story, forever, away from me, a sort of evil Col. parker-Elvis sort of
thing.
Anyway, I am entrusting you with a little more information. I would
love to give you particulars and so on, will leave that up to Howard.
Howard from the beginning trusted you, when i was very afraid because
of your closeness to McAdams, who will not be able to be objective if
he has the inside roots to the jesuits that i assume he has--he'd lose
his job, I do not doubt for an instant, if he became pro-Oswald and
put out materials in the other direction. It can;t be helped, it's who
he works for. You don;t have to take my word for it, once you learn
more of what i know, decide for yourself.
meanwhile, I have tried to give you just a hint of some of what went
on, but believe me, there are literally thousands of details. i know
Lee's whereabouts and activities, and canverify most of them
independently, between April 26 and Marina's arrival May 11th, for
example. And I saw a portion of the training film, which was the
original reason, besides promoting a pro-Castro stance to make him
look better after returning to US (he got in trouble for getting a
wife and kid, but he courageously got them out of Russia anyway). He
was always intended to poenetrate Cuba, but his work that summer would
amaze you, as he learned some paramedical techniques in handling
biological weapons (the materials we were crafting, Ferrie was in on
it, under Ochsner's direction).
Lee was set up to take the fall, as my mafia friends around here would
also tell you. I have a half dozen who agree to be filmed if their
faces are obscured. They'll testify I was Lee's girl, and that he was
made to take the fall, as they put it. I am in correspondence with
Marcello family members and i know just how much i can actually say
about all that without endangering myself and family. nevertheless,
have had death threats from one mafia former bodyguard, who had to be
hauled off by the family, as he has apparently lost his mind. This
caused me a lot of grief and fear this spring.
Anyway, the very tip of the iceberg, without any hard facts here, but
you are getting a sort of outline so you can, if you wish, understand
what was going on. You should be able to see that Mr. Lifton got very
little, for he thinks he got, as he did not even realize that we
worked together on the project in New Orleans (just look at his
comments and you'll see he thinks we had a casual affair and that I
merely worked at Reily's--which was only the beginning of the
situation in New Orleans).
I met Banister only twice. Once posing as Marina (not having baby
along should give you the clue if it was me or Marina--this was
without the baby, it was me). --I was inside Banister's office only
twice. I was inside Newman building maybe a dozen times altgether
through the Mancuso (Camp St.) end of the building. After we fell in
love, every effort to make sure we were not seen together was
undertaken, but there are still witnesses who knew about us. two of
those are on tape. One also on film.
Lee and i destroyed everything we could reach about us. We messed up
records, too, with help from others. Some of lee's record problems
were to make it hard to trace him if he escaped to mexico 9and from
there we planned to fly to the Caymans). we tried to pretend we'd
somehow survive, but by the lat conversation (39 hrs before the
assassination) it became pretty clear he was trapped. the cruelty that
Lifton ;laid on this matter on my heart cannot be expressed. He has
made a travesty of the conversation, a portion of which he learned of
only because i had finally got the courage to write down our last
phone conversation about the time of the Lifton contact.
it took me weeks to focus on this because it had been so difficult to
think about ever again. It almost drives me mad to think about it. We
were both crying. I was throwing all sorts of desperate ideas at him,
how he could get out of it so that he would not be rounded up and
blamed for it all, but in everything we thought of, overwhelming
everything was the possibility that the aqssassination wouldn;t go
through, which means he'd blown his cpover and shown his true colors
if he left, and also, most important, lee felt it was worth risking
his life if there might be some way he coulld still do something to
impede the progress of the planned shoot-in. Lee was hampered by the
fact that it was made plain to us that if he fled, everybody who knew
him would be killed, period. You don;t have to believe me, but it's
true. The other factor was that they did not know he knew what was
going to happen, concernign laying it all on him. but we knew,
because of what had happened to him in Mexico City, which was shurgged
off as a test to see if he would really carry out orders with
sufficient zeal, etc. .We knew better, there are many mexico City
details.
Had he been the villain, Dave, don't you think he would have kept
all his cash for his getaway? Don;t you think he would have needed all
the cash he left on that dresser for Marina? he knew either he would
make it to the people who would get him out of there, or not. he
didn;t need the money, Dave, under the real situation for an escape.
Marina had lived with the Paines with no money from Lee long periods
before and could have done so again. he left the money there, Dave,
because either he would have no usely earth for it again because he'd
be dead, and she would need it, and he didn't want it stripped from
his body and she not get it, or, on the other hand, he would not need
any of it because he'd connect with the getaway that was arranged
through those who tried to get him out alive. So he just carried
enough money on him as might be useful for incidental expenses.
We talked out so many details in long conversations availale to us
through mob-established trunkline used for horserace and gamblng
calls. I can go into more detail aout that, too, and have some proof
about it also.
Anyway, I have tried to give you enough information so that you can
then understand how Lifton garbled lee's last words, nearly, to me,
and which make me cry when i think of them--something Lifton made fun
of me about.\
What lee actually said, not as misreported by Lifton:
"If i stay, that will be one less bullet aimed at Kennedy." because
they just would have had somebody else take the fall in his place, who
might actually have shot at JFK as well. we both assumed it would be
set up to look like all shots came from the TSBD, but as a matter of
fact, Lee and I felt that the original intent was to blow off so much
of the top of JFK's head that nobody could have discerned what
direction the shots came from, because otherwise, they couldn't blame
it all on him. This is what we TALKED about, mind you. Lee didn't
even know how many would ultimately be involved, but we had our
speculations. Lee was able to convince everybody that he was a
mindless drone who would do anything he was told for his country, even
to killing the "red' president if ordered to do so.
Lifton turned one of my desperate remarks to Lee, about a laxative,m
into a sick, disgusting joke, and now this will sully the last words
of my sweetheart, which makes me furious.
I do not ask you to believe me, David, in all of this. But I ask that
you withold judgment and simply look with a fresh eye at everything
you've ever looked at. If you can just suspend judgment, I think you
could think of good questions to ask me, which i will happily respond
to. i don;t ask you to feed me any information. Do not do that. I
don;t need any of that, i lived through this. Where my memory has
failed, I'll tell you so.
One thing that helped me remember lots of dates and events was Lee and
my habit of reading the paper together (usually the day before's
paper, on the bus). we always read the horoscopes, Moon rays or
something it was called, and we did not believe it, but just looked up
marina's, and Robert's, then Lee's, then mine, every time, just to
seeif the horoscopes were anything close to what we were really going
through, some of which was so exciting it could be made into a movie
(Lee once saved us from geting cut up by a hood in French Quarter--we
both shook like leaves when it was over, but he was brave during the
confrontation, and the other guy fled when Lee, while drawing out his
wallet, flipped open a small switchblade he also brought out with the
wallet).
So when i read in the Times-Picayune "strong rays agitate' or whatever
that was, i remember that was the day after my marriage, and how upset
Lee and i were that I had had to go through with it. if he had not
confessed to beating marina, i would not have gone through with it.
That he DID confess to such a thing shows the open-ness that
characterized our whole relationship, so that I became privy to a
great number of details, many of them new, some of which have been ale
to be verified.
We were first like brother and sister, both of us having marital
obligations elsewhere. But Robert had been shipped offshore (on
purpose, to keep the new husband out of the way)--and i originally
tought to divorce him as soon as i could, but because of the
assassination, I was afraid to reveal my maiden name and make myself
an open target.. It took weeksa before we stepped oiver the line. We
couldn't stand it anymore. he did not seduce me. I loved his
dominating ways. i love being dominated by men, whom i consider
superior to women in many respects (women will hate me for saying
this), but many of the things i love, are what men love--I mean
travel, sports, fishing, working with motors and physics and chemicals
and =--say---rebuilding a carburetor. yet i am very feminine and
gentle. To say that we were attractive to each other is the
understatement of the year. i also have to say that I never lacked
boyfriends in my life. i had up to five at once and held onto my
virginity until Robert came along. Even now, I am 57 and have a 39
year old boyfriend of whom i am very fond, John Lebeau. However, i do
not look my age, people do not realize.
anyway, one of the things that saved me was Carlos' Marcello's
fondness for me and my favorite girlfriend in New Orleans. this was
Anna Lewis, David's wife, who was my best female friend in New Orleans
for almost three months, until lee and i decided to get away from
everybody inorder for us to have any time together--these were
daylight hours we spent---by dark, or soon after, Lee was usually
home. But remember, in mid-June it's not dark until after 9:00 pm.
Anna is on tape and film as my primary supporting witness. Of course,
with her husband, she had been inside Banister's also.
Though my favorite female friend, we had a falling-out because she
thought I was too stuck up --and all these years have passed, and i
was afraid she wouldn't stand up for me on film and tape, but she has,
though it's plain we do not like each other much any more.
Finally, my dad's name was D.W. Vary: I was most closely associated
during the last months in N.O. with D. W. Ferrie. Vary is a rare name:
We three involved most closely called ourselfves "Dr. Mary, Dr. Ferrie
and Dr. Vary." Marina was interviewed about a "Farry" i think
somebody told me. Anyway, people thought Dave didn't like women, and
the names are so close, i think people thought "Vary" was a typo.
Between that and my resembling Marina, and later using a wig and
posing hispanic after Marina got too far along, i was ale to hide
myself pretty well out of the records. My birth certificate, in fact,
was changed to make it harder to trace. the certificate i had issued
originally when we moved to Florida had my name in full, as my mother
will testify, and of course, i needed it to enter publiuc schools. ut
the certificate issued April 26, '63. OH! have to go! -j-
<QUOTE OFF>------------------------------------
Dave
jpsh...@my-deja.com
[...]
> <QUOTE ON>-------------------------------------
>
> Subj: confidential
> Date: 10/7/00 2:55:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
> From: Americanwebworks
> To: Dreitzes
>
> In a message dated 10/07/2000 2:21:10 AM Central Daylight Time,
>
>
> I spent ten hours being interrogated by a expert in AIDS-HIV
> yesterday. Everything from how to use an electron microscope to how we
> initially piggybacked polyoma virus to a radioactively challenged (my
> term!) modified SIV-40 and then modified that phenotype to a more
> lethal varety. In other words, my story involves a lot of technical
> material as well as what I suppose people would call strictly
> historic.
So Baker did claim that there was a link between SV-40 and AIDS. I
thought the story was that the Platzman outline was wrong on this.
Can somebody please clarify?
[...]