David Ferrie and the Ice Rink, Oswald and the Coke Bottle
Richard David Behrens
assassination on and off for twenty years, and there are two stupid little
questions I've been meaning to ask anyone who would listen for all this
time. Forgive me if these issues have been discussed ad nauseum in this
group already. I don't mean to be redundant:
1) Why would David Ferrie, a man with obviously very strong political
opinions -- about Kennedy, about Cuba, about the radical right -- why
would such a man, when hearing that Kennedy had been shot dead, drive
hundreds of miles to go ice skating? Given that the ice skating incident
is no hard proof that he was part of a conspiracy, wouldn't it be more
plausible if he had stayed put to gather more information from the media.
Does anyone have any recollection of Ferrie glued to a television watching
these monumental events unfold before him? Or devouring newspapers
looking for details? Or hanging out with pal Guy Bannister discussing
heatedly in public their opinions about the assassination? Is it just me
or does it make sense that such a man as Ferrie would move about New
Orleans spouting his opinions about the death of the president who was his
nemesis? It seems to me that driving hundreds of miles to go ice skating
would cut you off not only from your political cronies but the media where
you can gather info on the murder. Was Ferrie known to publicly comment
on the assassination?
By the way, who were the friends who went ice skating with him? Are they
still alive? Do they report conversation from that weekend in which
Ferrie discusses the assassination?
2) Along similar lines, why would Lee Oswald, a man who was so political
and passionate about Kennedy-Cuban issues disappear into a lunch room to
drink a bottle of coca cola while the President of the United States was
driving by in a limo right outside his building? If he was innocent, why
didn't he join the crowd, or at least look out the window in curiosity?
Why would he retreat to the cafeteria which didn't even have a window?
This behavior is just as mysterious as being in the sixth floor window
with a rifle.
Both these behaviors on behalf of these two men are suspicious in their
innocence. Does anyone agree?
Please have patience with a newbie poster.
Blackburst
>Why would David Ferrie, a man with obviously very strong political
>opinions -- about Kennedy, about Cuba, about the radical right -- why
>would such a man, when hearing that Kennedy had been shot dead, drive
>hundreds of miles to go ice skating?
Ferrie had just that afternoon wrapped up the time-consuming Marcello case
for his employer, and felt he needed a getaway. His employeralso wanted
him to contact a client in Vinton, LA. Ferrie friend Melvin Coffey had
recently had a scrape with the law and likewise was desirous of a break.
Friend Alvin Beauboeuf was a champion roller skater and always wanted to
try ice skating. There were no rinks in New Orleans, so Ferrie called a
rink in Baton Rouge that was not open. He recalled a rink in Houston from
his Eastern Air Lines days, and called for a skating schedule. The three
decided to go to that city for skating, night clubbing and drinking. As
the weather was beginning to improve, they left on their trip. Ferrie
tried skating, but was no good at it. His two companions continued to
skate for a couple of hours. The group visited the client in Vinton and
Beauboeuf's relatives in Alexandria on their return trip.
>wouldn't it be more
>plausible if he had stayed put to gather more information from the media.
Ferrie and Beauboeuf spent time at Ferrie's apartment with Layton Martens
and John Irion watching news reports. During the trip, they checked in on
radio and TV to see what was going on.
>Was Ferrie known to publicly comment
>on the assassination?
>
Friends recall that Ferrie was affected like most other Americans: Shock,
grief at the loss of life at so young an age. In 1967, Ferrie studied a
few assassination books and came to believe that there might have been
more than one gunman.
>By the way, who were the friends who went ice skating with him? Are they
>still alive?
Alvin Beauboeuf and Melvin Coffey. Both are alive. Beauboeuf (pronounced
"bo-buff") has been interviewed for several books, but Coffey has
maintained a lower profile.
>Forgive me if these issues have been discussed ad nauseum in this
>group already. I don't mean to be redundant:
Discussed a few times, but no problem repeating some of this info.
00
David
Richard David Behrens
Thanks for the fascinating info. In all the literature I read about
Ferrie, I never came across this much detail about their skating trip.
There was a reference in the Stone film where Costner says to Joe Pesci:
"But we spoke to the boys and the boys said you didn't catch any [geese]".
Does this mean that Garrison interrograted Ferrie's friends? Where was
the information you wrote about the trip published?
Your posting makes Ferrie's trip seem far more innocent than some make it
out to be. For twenty years, I just assumed that Ferrie was a
conspirator. I would read one book and be convinced, then read another
and feel that Ferrie is just an easy target for the conspiracy theorists.
My beliefs in Ferrie being involved rests on the Camp Street address that
Bannister's office shared with Oswald combined with the CAP photograph of
Ferrie and Oswald together (actually they are not hanging out together in
the photo, but...) (then again we have a photo of Oswald "hanging out"
with John Wayne in a marine mess tent...does that means that Wayne was in
New Orleans in the summer of '63?)
Thanks again.
jer...@my-dejanews.com
Let me welcome you to the group!
I've been studying the
> assassination on and off for twenty years, and there are two stupid little
> questions I've been meaning to ask anyone who would listen for all this
> time. Forgive me if these issues have been discussed ad nauseum in this
> group already. I don't mean to be redundant:
> 1) Why would David Ferrie, a man with obviously very strong political
> opinions -- about Kennedy, about Cuba, about the radical right -- why
> would such a man, when hearing that Kennedy had been shot dead, drive
> hundreds of miles to go ice skating?
He and his young friends had planned a trip together. Layton Martin's court
difficulties had cleared up and Ferrie's work with G Wray Gill had come to an
end, so the time was right.
And he didn't just jump in his car and leave. He waited some six hours - until
9 in the evening to depart with his friends.
Given that the ice skating incident
> is no hard proof that he was part of a conspiracy, wouldn't it be more
> plausible if he had stayed put to gather more information from the media.
By the time he had left, Oswald was captured and had been brought before the
cameras. Was there breaking news at 9 PM on 11/22/63?
And he kept in touch with Gill's office asking about developments and phoned
local radio/tv stations and they watched tv in their motel room. So, Ferrie
was not uninterested -- in fact, he was deeply disturbed by the
assassination.
> Does anyone have any recollection of Ferrie glued to a television watching
> these monumental events unfold before him? Or devouring newspapers
> looking for details? Or hanging out with pal Guy Bannister discussing
> heatedly in public their opinions about the assassination? Is it just me
> or does it make sense that such a man as Ferrie would move about New
> Orleans spouting his opinions about the death of the president who was his
> nemesis?
Kennedy wasn't Ferrie's "nemesis". In fact, he was supportive of him in many
ways. The BOP was a disaster and tempers were high. Many people saw Kennedy as
weak against Communism - that doesn't mean they want him assassinated.
It seems to me that driving hundreds of miles to go ice skating
> would cut you off not only from your political cronies but the media where
> you can gather info on the murder. Was Ferrie known to publicly comment
> on the assassination?
You can find material on Ferrie and his reaction in Gus Russo's Live By The
Sword. Let me quote a few lines.
--Quote LBTS, p.144 ----
"...Ferrie voted for Kennedy in 1960 and was "elated" when he defeated Richard
Nixon for the presidency that year. "Things are going to turn for the better
now that a Catholic has been elected, " a good friend would remember Ferrie
saying. Another friend elaborated, "After all, he was an Irish Catholic, too.
He was an enthusiastic supporter.... To him, the idea of a Catholic president
wasw mind-boggling. He thought Kennedy was fabulous."
His friends say he was deeply saddened by JFK's assassination.
> By the way, who were the friends who went ice skating with him? Are they
> still alive? Do they report conversation from that weekend in which
> Ferrie discusses the assassination?
It was Al Beauboeuf and Layton Martens - both alive and both interviewed by
Gus Russo.
> 2) Along similar lines, why would Lee Oswald, a man who was so political
> and passionate about Kennedy-Cuban issues disappear into a lunch room to
> drink a bottle of coca cola while the President of the United States was
> driving by in a limo right outside his building? If he was innocent, why
> didn't he join the crowd, or at least look out the window in curiosity?
> Why would he retreat to the cafeteria which didn't even have a window?
> This behavior is just as mysterious as being in the sixth floor window
> with a rifle.
Exactly the questions I ask. And my answer is that Oswald came up with a bogus
and higly incriminating "alibi" to cover the time he was up on the 6th floor
shooting JFK.
Of course he wouldn't eat lunch - not that he had a lunch - at 12:30 - as the
presidential motorcade was passing his building!
> Both these behaviors on behalf of these two men are suspicious in their
> innocence. Does anyone agree?
>
> Please have patience with a newbie poster.
Don't worry about it! <g>
Again, welcome.
Jerry
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
jer...@my-dejanews.com
Here's an exerpt from the HSCA Report - I believe it's available online:
On November 22, 1963, Ferrie had been in a Federal courtroom in
New Orleans in connection with legal proceedings against Carlos
Marcello.27 (216) That night he drove, with two young friends, to
Houston, Tex. then to Galveston on Saturday, November 23, and back
to New Orleans on Sunday. (218) Before reaching New Orleans, he
learned from a telephone conversation with G. Wray Gill that Martin
had implicated him in the, assassination.(219) Gill also told Ferrie
about the rumors that he and Oswald had served together in the CAP
and that Oswald supposedly had Ferrie's library card in his possession
when he was arrested in Dallas.(220) When he got to his residence,
Ferrie did not go in, but sent in his place one of his companions on
the trip, Alvin Beauboeuf.(231) Beauboeuf and Ferrie's roommate,
Layton Martens, were detained by officers from the district attorney's
office. (222) Ferrie drove to Hammond, La, and spent the night with
a friend. (223)
On Monday, November 25, Ferrie turned himself in to the district
attorney's office where he was arrested on suspicion of being involved
in the assassination. (224) In subsequent interviews with New Orleans
authorities, the FBI and the Secret Service, Ferrie denied ever having
known Oswald or having ever been involved in the assassination.
(225) He stated that. in the days preceding, November 22, he had been
working intensively for Gill on the Marcello case. (226) Ferrie said he
was in New Orleans on the morning of November 22, at which time
Marcello was acquitted in Federal court of citizenship falsification.
(227) He stated that he took the weekend trip to Texas for relaxa-
tion.(228) Ferrie acknowledged knowing Jack Martin, stating that
Martin resented him for forcibly removing him from Gill's office
earlier that year. (229)
I hope that helps,
Jerry
In article <7e1lun$pj2$1...@camel25.mindspring.com>,
beh...@pipeline.com wrote:
> Blackburst:
>
> Thanks for the fascinating info. In all the literature I read about
> Ferrie, I never came across this much detail about their skating trip.
> There was a reference in the Stone film where Costner says to Joe Pesci:
> "But we spoke to the boys and the boys said you didn't catch any [geese]".
> Does this mean that Garrison interrograted Ferrie's friends? Where was
> the information you wrote about the trip published?
>
> Your posting makes Ferrie's trip seem far more innocent than some make it
> out to be. For twenty years, I just assumed that Ferrie was a
> conspirator. I would read one book and be convinced, then read another
> and feel that Ferrie is just an easy target for the conspiracy theorists.
> My beliefs in Ferrie being involved rests on the Camp Street address that
> Bannister's office shared with Oswald combined with the CAP photograph of
> Ferrie and Oswald together (actually they are not hanging out together in
> the photo, but...) (then again we have a photo of Oswald "hanging out"
> with John Wayne in a marine mess tent...does that means that Wayne was in
> New Orleans in the summer of '63?)
>
> Thanks again.
>
> black...@aol.com (Blackburst) wrote:
>
> >Richard David Behrens wrote:
> >>Why would David Ferrie, a man with obviously very strong political
> >>opinions -- about Kennedy, about Cuba, about the radical right -- why
> >>would such a man, when hearing that Kennedy had been shot dead, drive
> >>hundreds of miles to go ice skating?
>
> >Ferrie had just that afternoon wrapped up the time-consuming Marcello case
> >for his employer, and felt he needed a getaway. His employeralso wanted
> >him to contact a client in Vinton, LA. Ferrie friend Melvin Coffey had
> >recently had a scrape with the law and likewise was desirous of a break.
> >Friend Alvin Beauboeuf was a champion roller skater and always wanted to
> >try ice skating. There were no rinks in New Orleans, so Ferrie called a
> >rink in Baton Rouge that was not open. He recalled a rink in Houston from
> >his Eastern Air Lines days, and called for a skating schedule. The three
> >decided to go to that city for skating, night clubbing and drinking. As
> >the weather was beginning to improve, they left on their trip. Ferrie
> >tried skating, but was no good at it. His two companions continued to
> >skate for a couple of hours. The group visited the client in Vinton and
> >Beauboeuf's relatives in Alexandria on their return trip.
>
> >>wouldn't it be more
> >>plausible if he had stayed put to gather more information from the media.
>
> >Ferrie and Beauboeuf spent time at Ferrie's apartment with Layton Martens
> >and John Irion watching news reports. During the trip, they checked in on
> >radio and TV to see what was going on.
>
> >>Was Ferrie known to publicly comment
> >>on the assassination?
> >>
>
> >Friends recall that Ferrie was affected like most other Americans: Shock,
> >grief at the loss of life at so young an age. In 1967, Ferrie studied a
> >few assassination books and came to believe that there might have been
> >more than one gunman.
>
> >>By the way, who were the friends who went ice skating with him? Are they
> >>still alive?
>
> >Alvin Beauboeuf and Melvin Coffey. Both are alive. Beauboeuf (pronounced
> >"bo-buff") has been interviewed for several books, but Coffey has
> >maintained a lower profile.
>
> >>Forgive me if these issues have been discussed ad nauseum in this
> >>group already. I don't mean to be redundant:
>
> >Discussed a few times, but no problem repeating some of this info.
>
> >00
> >David
>
>
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
Blackburst
>There was a reference in the Stone film where Costner says to Joe Pesci:
>"But we spoke to the boys and the boys said you didn't catch any [geese]".
>Does this mean that Garrison interrograted Ferrie's friends?
The Stone film is not an accurate accounting of the Garrison investigation in
many regards. Ferrie, Beauboeuf and Coffey were all interviewed in 1963 by NOPD
officers and by NODA investigators, but not by Garrison himself. Ferrie stated
to various investigators in 1963 and 1966 that the reasons for the trip were as
I stated in my earlier post, but for some reason added the detail about
goose-hunting. I might speculate that Ferrie said or meant that goose hunting
was discussed by the trio, but was garbled when interviewed by investigators.
The three did not have any weapons, but they did stop briefly at a goose
hunting area near Galveston on Sunday morning, November 24, 1963.
>Where was
>the information you wrote about the trip published?
>
Most of the info I wrote has not been published. It comes from recently
released files of the NOPD, NODA, FBI and Secret Service, from interviews, and
from scattered references in books.
>Your posting makes Ferrie's trip seem far more innocent than some make it
>out to be.
I can't claim to be sure that Ferrie had nothing to do with the assassination,
but I do feel that the details of the Texas trip have often been misstated or
exaggerated. I don't find the details of the trip, as stated by the
participants, as suspicious as other people do.
>For twenty years, I just assumed that Ferrie was a
>conspirator.
So did I. I was startled when I began seeking primary research sources.
>My beliefs in Ferrie being involved rests on the Camp Street address that
>Bannister's office shared with Oswald
It IS true that Oswald chose to list an address at which Ferrie could sometimes
be found. (It is not true that Ferrie was employed in Banister's office, or
that he was active in anti-Castro activities in that office in 1963). But the
evidence that Oswald actually worked in the office is not conclusive.
>combined with the CAP photograph of
>Ferrie and Oswald together
The photo was taken in August 1955. Ferrie told the FBI that, while a photo of
Oswald's face had a very vague familiartity to him, he did not specifically
recall ever meeting him. Since Ferrie had served with over a thousand young CAP
cadets, I don't find his explanation unbelievable.
Thanks for being open minded. I don't claim Ferrie had nothing to do with the
JFK assassination or with Oswald. I just think that a fair reading of the
evidence and the consideration of benign explanations for his activities
suggests that they were not as suspicious as some think.
oo
David
AjHidell99
[snipping]
>2) Along similar lines, why would Lee Oswald, a man who was so political
>and passionate about Kennedy-Cuban issues disappear into a lunch room to
>drink a bottle of coca cola while the President of the United States was
>driving by in a limo right outside his building? If he was innocent, why
>didn't he join the crowd, or at least look out the window in curiosity?
>Why would he retreat to the cafeteria which didn't even have a window?
>This behavior is just as mysterious as being in the sixth floor window
>with a rifle.
Your question would seem to me to depend on whether or not the evidence
leads you to believe that Oswald was involved in the intelligence
community.
If he was not, and did not shoot at Kennedy, then it is indeed suspicious
that he would not at least take a passing glance at the motorcade.
If he was, and did not shoot at Kennedy, then he may have been "working",
with instructions to be in the lunchroom for whatever reason.
The validity of any answer to your question would seem to hinge on whether
or not Oswald was involved in some Intel capacity.
AJHidell99
Blackburst
>> By the way, who were the friends who went ice skating with him?
>Gus Russo.
Correction: The two who went to Texas with Ferrie were Beauboeuf and
Melvin Stacey Coffey.
When the trio returned to New Orleans Sunday night, they dropped Beauboeuf
at Ferrie's apartment, where Martens had been staying. Police came and
detained Beauboeuf and Martens. But Martens had not been on the trip.
oo
David
jpsh...@my-dejanews.com
black...@aol.com (Blackburst) wrote:
> Jerry Shinley wrote:
>
Actually, it was Jerry Fletcher McNally Amethyst.