Subj: Would an affidavit from Sally help?
Date: 10/9/00 10:20:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
Judyth said the following recently. I'm hope she has not written her
I am sure that if there is documentation found for what I say, they
will say i searched for it first. if there is no documentation for
what I say, they will not believe it.
I have little defense concerning the existence of this and that
document bringing up this and that event, but all I can say is that my
friends and family know i have had no activities whatsoever in Kennedy
research areas. no books, no trips, none of the digging and delving. i
was excavating an Indian mound two years ago and teaching many extra
classes. beforte that, overhwlmed with long drives living in very
remote areas, and my daughter knows what i was doing on the computer--
counseling people out of mormonism for hours and hours.
My only possible defense is the fact that i can give you more reasons
for why things happened and how they were actually linked together
that hopefully will lead to new evidence.
My other defense is how can it be that a person never known to have
anything to do with kennedy stuff suddenly, in apparently the space of
about 609 days, created this fascinating hodegpodge with all these
Because sarah lived with me until end of 1998, and Dr. riehl saw my
book just 45 days later. You have to assume that I did all this
research sometime between Dec. 30, 1998 and Feb. 15, approximately,
and then put it on a disk. the fact that i was taking classes,
teaching English classes, moved from the trailer to another trailer,
was still counseling mormons on the internet, and sold a car during
this same time period, must mean i not only read and write at the
speed of light, but also can do years of research that fast, too.
Because my daughter, Sarah, used the computer often, and she knows
there was NOTHING anywhere on that computer. we were living 48 miles
from lafayette in the middle of nowhere, and i commuted to the
university three times a week to teach and attend classes. Commuting
exhausted me, too.
For four years, just sally and i lived together, and i was working and
going to school, getting my Master's, then we moved to Louisiana. She
knows i had not ONE SHRED of any kennedy stuff of any kind.
I do not think even Reitzes can conclude that I had time to do all
this in about six weeks. Most of these papers he talks about we
didn't even know about, surely I did not know about, and in fact, i
have to say that Marina and Lee and some of the Warren Commission
report was all i knew about at first-- and had very little chance to
see any of the W.C. report even at that.
Subj: Jim Garrison blew it
Date: 10/9/00 11:22:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time
One thing we probably both agree on: Garrison (probably, from what I
knew about him) went wrongly after Clay Shaw and was totally wrong
about Dave Ferrie's real motives and involvement. Garrison was so
tied up with the mob, I know myself, that he had no possible way to go
after them. I guess you know about his affair with Sandra Sexton. Most
people do not. Anyway, Garrison was so wrong. -j-
Subj: Re: confidential
Date: 10/10/00 11:41:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time
I have a question or two to ask of you, matter of fact.
I was told you came along onto the newsgroup about a year and a half
ago, and at that time you presented a lot of material apparently from
a mr. Armstrong about "two Lee's." This same person said you were not
to be trusted.
First of all, I suppose this person thinks you are a conjoined siamese
twin of John mcAdams. I am aware that you two get along. But I like
something about you, perhaps the same thing Howard saw in you. You
have come to conclusions about Lee, I suppose, and from what i know of
psychology, when people invest a lot in something emotionally, it can
affect the way they think about information that may challenge a
conclusion that has been painfully and carefully--and I surmise
I have to say that if I were a casual reader trying to figure it out,
I'd say it would be impossible to sift out "the truth" from all the
conflicting information. How you decide what to choose as true and
what is false is your own business, of course. But I, for one, am in a
1) If I bring up absolutely new information (until I got investigators
to go find it), I could be accused of making it up
2)if I bring up information that could be located somewhere, however
difficult that might be, I could be accused of having previously
looked it up
In fact, I dread with all my heart ever being seen or heard or ever
having aother word of mine twisted and made light of. I erred in
thinking the newsgroup would be a good place to find people to talk
to, not knowing where to go or how to begin. I knew nothing about any
of you. I did not know about any books, I did not even know what "CT"
or "LN" was. It was a whole new, and artificial world that had nothing
to do with the experiences I have kept within my memories all these
years, held onto so tightly.
About six weeks ago, Howard gave me a gift. he thought it was a gift.
It was The Indianapolis Star. I had my first paper signings in
indianapolis with my government. Anyway, the newspaper he purchassed
for me was dated Nov. 22, 1963.
He didn't realize that i have never --ever--read a single sentence
from that day's newspaper and never wish to. I may open it and look
at it someday, but it will take a lot for me to do it. It signifies
the worst day of my life. Howard meant well, but it made me sick to
even spot the headline.
I avoided then and avoid now all of that. I compartmentalized that
part of my life, and eventually formed a different sort of life.
Instead of becomeing a doctor, instead of the work intended to help
people by conquering cancer, I hid in the Mormon church, which I
joined to start a new life.The concept of baptism was very important,
cleansing me from guilt. The concept of a temple marriage was also
very important, as Robert and i would have a new start in our
marriage. I swore to myself to leave the old behind. I knew that to
try to defend Lee meant to lose my present husband. i wanted us to
have a fresh start. , I could never bring Lee back.
I spent almost eighteen years in mormonism and (hope you are not a
Mormon and that this does not offend you), left the church when i
discovered faked documents, etc. I was a leader among women at that
time, but because I asked for excommunication, Robert divorced me
(remaining Mormon, he did not seem to kind that the church's roots
were corrupt....I appeared under fake names declaring the truth about
Mormonism). This action destroyed my security, caused bitter batttles
over the kids, and gave me not an instant's chance to rest, let alone
find time to talk to anybody about Lee and me and what happened.
I assumed that the evidence would never come forth in my lifetime. I
So when the film JFK 9that has so much wrong about it) came out, my
children were surprised that I refused to watch it with them and even
remembered the incident, since I ALWAYS was with them, our house the
most popular one in the area, kids galore, but this time, i did not
chaperone, I could not bear to see any of it. My oldest son did tell
me that many records had been released in 1998, and for the first
time, I had hope that there would be a chance to prove what had
I got up the courage to rent the movie JFK on Dec. 29, 1998, the day
my daughter left for her honeymoon and moved out of our home...the
last of the four I raised as a single parent, a great struggle. Told
you, three were valedicotrians. The father still Mormon, he has
prostate cancer now and is married to a woman (her fourth marriage)
who does not always treat him well, but he is quite wealthy, whereas,
i have nothing and that's fine with me. Money means very little to me.
Only before i die, if there is a chance for what i know to come out. I
tried so hard to find a few people to look at the evidence, to listen
to me, it takes hours and hours.
Finally, a professor did. Then he told me about the newsgroup. I
noticed that Howard was very gentle acting and i wasn;t afaid of him
and felt he wouldn;t make fun of me. So, I had been writing
everything that happened down in the two weeks break before college
classes started agan, after which would have no time. I finished it
actually in about five weeks, the sixth week, the professor got a
version that didn;t have everything--i was afraid he would judge me
He is on my dissertation committee, etc.
But he knows that I wrote everything in just a matter of days. My
daughter knows nothing was written or existed before that, that i
owned no books, I did not even know you guys existed, nothing. The
kids always wondered how i could have a collection of newspapers
starting with Pope Pius XII and going through landing on the moon,
everything--but not one thing about JFK's death in that collection.
They wondered, and now know, too, why I always steered the
conversation away from that area. It was NEVER discussed, EVER in our
Anyway, I sent Howard a few emails, like i am doing to you, and
eventually he came to see everything I had. It took me weeks to pull
together the evidence, which was scattered through albums, stuck in
the back of pictures, folded into my jewelry box, lining Christmas
boxes, and even in the backs of books and dictionary, because I never
wanted anybody to put it all together. The kids have seen some of the
newspaper articles, etc. but never even read them. i concentrated on
founding a humane society, rescuing abused animals, working for the
state counseling abused chiuldren and woimen, and so on. My past was
never brought up, period.
And really, Dave, I am not sure if i have the courage to ever bring it
out, after seeing what happened in the newsgroup. To see how things
get twisted, how people will brwak their word (I wanted people to see
the evidence and get EVERY question answered--once they do these
things, they are satisfied). now, i was told that you would break you
word. i don't think so. I've noticed a few things about you. Of
course, i was wrong about David Lifton. He came on recommendation of
Debra Conway, though.
I have no idea what his theories are, something about moving trees in
Dealey plaza, and changing bodies or moving wound locations in the
body of JFK? Whatever. I know he was friendly to start with, but when
he began asking about when my book was coming out and I told him i did
not know (how true) he seemed upset. maybe i am wrong about that.
The rumors about a book are just that. There may never be a book, i
am not interested in books, there are what? hundreds ofthem about
this? Another book will not change things. I just want to talk to
people one by one, and show them what happened. It will take whatever
is left of my life to do that, i suppose. one thing you can be sure
of: I will never go to a Lancer or any other conference. I see that
they do not seem to do any good. the LN's and CT's never seem to
change their minds. they seem set in stone.
So it is most likely hopeless. I have tried to do somethign for Lee,
but I do not have the strength and energy to fight all of you, i will
have to hope that eventually enough evidence will be produced, that
enough people will have been informed, so that they see what links to
where. People have got a lot of it wrong. Example: i know why and for
what reason Lee leafletted The Wasp. I could give you new information
to look up, that will dovetail with some confusing information that i
know exists. This is the only way I think i can prove not only my
involvement but also Lee's innocence. no, not as innocent as did not
know what was going on, not that at all. But of shooting JFK.
By the way, nobody who sees my evidence and sees some of the new links
I have with old evidence, etc. doubts that I knew Lee and had an
intimate relationship with him. At one time i thought my knowledge of
him in certain physical descriptions, such as was he circumcized or
not, could serve as proof. i still know a couple of things that nobody
else knows except possibly marina, about Lee, very, very personal
things. Debra may not tell you so, but she knows I knew him and that
we were lovers. It was not a casual affair, either. i do have some of
his handwriting, and, as I said before, living witnesses, and half a
dozen more waiting in the wings if i have to call on them.
But some people will never listen to me if I had all of New orleans
trot out and say they remember us (it seems i have found a lot of
people who do remember us, thank God--we played chess in Palmer Park
together, and one witness whose mom worked in a restaurant across from
there saw us there as well as at the Five Hundred Club. Still another
witness mentions the ive Hundred Club and the Fountainebleu (sp?).
Then this other witness mentions the Fountaineblue and Palmer Park,
they are independent of each other, you see, but they all link, and
they do not even know each other).
I know which of Lee's checks was forged among the Reily checks,
because, of course, i saw the original (quite different). If you came
to see me, i would show you what the original check looked like, as i
have one of that sort myself.
well, thank you for listening.
I understand that you must be very wary of me. I simply thank you for
not divulging the little I am telling you. I will never post to the
newsgroup or go to a conference.. If i'm lucky, i will not be seen
except where I know they have done all their research on me
beforehand, and have perfect confidence in who I am. Such
prepapratiomn takes a long time, am in no hurry. Right now, if i died,
the information has been copied and is in enough hands so that they
can hunt everything down to the root. It will be enough to clear Lee.
That's my goal, and then I can move away where nobody will see me
anymore. My friends are quote aware that i intend to do that as soon
as i am sure all the evidence is correlatd with the records they are
now finding. And yes, they are finding what they are looking for.
Paul Hoch only got a bare outline of what my evidence supports. He
never spoke to me. He never met me. hH never saw one shred of
evidence. Howard was trying to invite him to look. I have hopes that
he will, even now. especially since i have a number of new names to
link in. i think Howard tried to invite you, too. i wanted people,
you see, who were not all "CT" people. I believe in diversity and I
believe that LN persons (is that the right term) have just as much
value as anyone else, because they will see what CT people cannot. It
is just plain common sense to want somebody like you and like Paul to
look at everything. but there is no rush.
I have a zillion papers to grade for mid-terms, so adieu for now. Once
again, i appreciate your keeping this confidential. Not because i am
trying to brainwash you or any silly thing like that--you know that
you are too intelligent to fall for such nonsense-- but simply because
much of it is sacred to me, or is very painful, and I do not wish it
to be treated lightly. Look at the ex-lax absurdity.
Do you have a wife, and family? Don't you have a website for your
Well, take care, Dave. thank you foryour attention.
God bless, j
I wsh you the very best, Dave.
Subj: Re: confidential
Date: 10/11/00 11:34:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Dear Dave: i believe you will keep your promise to me not to talk
about all of this. Thank you. i want to read these sites when have
time. Have to go teach in a few minutes, then lots more NEW papaers to
I have an interview/taping with major media friday, a trip to Tampa, I
think, Friday after that, and will be taking either polygraph tests or
psychologicals also for the record, I want the psychologicals done so
people will know i am a stable and sane person from the get-go
(besides, i always do so well on these things, probably because,
believe it or not, I AM a well-adjusted individual!)...anyway, before
the end of the month, more taping. there is no rish to get any of this
on the air, I want them to be certain and to have hunted up all the
evidence, but they are quite confident now (they have been
investigating everything for months now with P.I.'s even having people
tailing me all the time, you name it).
I have a major language exam to pass in early Nov. and the pace
here is hectic, as almost every weekend, I am being interviewed by
some investigator, whether in Washington, D.C., new York, New orleans,
What you may have heard about my wanting to get this stuff out as
soon as possible is ridiculous. I fired the agent who tried to hasten
matters and had published those lies about me. He did it without
letting me see any of what he wrote. He says he'll sue me for firing
him, he's only interested in money, and I told him, forget about a
book, there will never be a book if all you care about is the money.
If I'd wanted money, would have gone for it years ago.
I thought maybe a good place to start would be to talk about Lee
knowing these people: Secret Service agent Robert A. Baker, Alex
Rorke, and (presumed) Miami customs agent Arthur Young. He had passed
through New orleans with a girl he was 'delivering" to somewhere in
Tampa, maybe to Eglin Air Force Base, anyway, he mentioned both places
he had been to sometime spring 1963. It would never have come up
except he thought "my" Robert A. Baker was the same man. He
inadvertently spilled some things out when was told to make contact
with me, because he was not told much about me, just to check on if i
was ok. I had come to N.O. two weeks before i was scheduled to do so
(I was rebellious, ochsner hated that). I had wanted to see if I
could do anything on my own, they were running my life A-Z and i was
getting sick of it.
Anyway, lee was sent, I think (he never admitted it) to check up
on me when it was discovered i used the trailways ticket two weeks
early. I checked obediently into the "Y" but was almost out of money.
Originally i was suppposed to just work on the get-Castro project in
the osteosarcoma and orthpedic surgery sector at Ochsner's clinic.
Indeed i had been trained to do specialized work. I had strong
connections with the antiCastro community from having lived in Florida
and dated anti-castro Cubans, among them (I have photos, etc.) Antonio
Lopez Fresquet, son of Castro's Finance Minister, Rufo L-F. This man
was a CIA contact, and Tony told me plenty. I was already being
trained in working with the most deadly kinds of cancer by the time I
reached N.O. and I had all these anti-Castro contacts and info, so Lee
was supposed to pump me about Lopexz Fresquet and others, because Tony
(Antonio) and his brother Vincent had vanished, and there was some
concern for their safety.
It took little time to be introduced, after what I was able
to provide by way of info frommy station at University of Florida,
where i was sponsored by Sen. george Smathers, Drs. Ochsner, Harold
Diehl and George Moore, all heads of insitutes/ACS, NIH, Walter Reed,
etc.--- to others in the get-Castro project Ochsner had put together.
Instead of placing me in the lab, since I had resolved to elope and
marry Robert A. baker (not the s.s. agent) , they made sure he was
sent offshpore almost the entire summer, and i saw almost nothing of
him. And because we could arrange for a check for me at Reily's, that
would make it impossible for my "husband" such as he was to have any
knowledge of the anti-Castro group I was working with, and for the
sake of being able to cover for Lee (checking him out when he was
already gone, on his time cards, etc.) I--the highly trained cancer
research expert--- became Bill Monaghan's 'assistant."
I have left out an hour's worth of detals here. It takes an hour
to explain how I was valuable at Reily's, why Lee needed to be covered
there, who else was involved there, who lied to the warren Commission
about Lee there, how I was able to leave all the time and work in the
labs, how I ended up having to stay married to a man I scarcely loved,
just liked a lot-- and how my life was destroyed by this single summer
of playing James boind with the big boys.
But I think this is a good place to begin. I have given you a
few sentences of information, perhaps the most important here being
the fact that as far as I am aware, Shaw and ochsner (yes, i can link
them in this with other info I have) were out to get Castro. I never
considered Shaw/ochsner/Dave ferrie, any of them toi be involved in
the conspiracy to assassinate JFK. BUT-- they became aware of the
conspiracy and it had very deep roots, it could not be stopped, it
could only be infiltrated, penetrated. Talk about playing with
I don;t ask you to believe any of this without seeing my
evidence. I have established beyond doubt everything I have told you
to this point through hours and hours of details, that others have
received. Little details, such as why Dave Ferrie really WAS wprroed
about a "library card" only the real story behind this little card was
totally different from what you can ever have imagined. Once you know,
everything Dave did, and how he wriggled out of it later, is
The whole way Lee moved where he did, and how he moved me into
1032 Marengo (six blocks from each other if you went through yards to
get there, nine by car) and why--- it all is pulled totally together.
The truth, Dave, is truly stranger than fiction. You will soon see
there is no way i could have made all this up and have so many proofs.
Just for starters, something you can check up:
Nobody among all these researchers all these years knew about the ad
reily put into the paper calling Lee in to respond at the right time.
I of course was set up also to respond, both ads are run together in
the paper, and I have photocopied these ads for everyone to see. they
are opbviously aimed at us, once you read them and see for yourself.
Secondly, just for starters about the same time, if you go to the May
4 edition of the Times-Picayune (and I even can tell you why that
edition was important to us, lee and me, in a number of other ways)
for 1963, and you will see an article about an undercover agent,
dressed oin a nice white shirt, posing as a drug and narcotics dealer
for the good guys. He even looks like Lee. We studied this sotry,
which involves the poser, who ended up getting lots of the bad guys
arrested, arranging to have himself accosted by THREE men for his
dealing in drugs. he gets himself arrested and everybody is convinced
he's a drug dealer, and from there, he eventually makes lots of
arrests. he looks like a clean-cut collegian.
Lee and I discussed this article, and from it Lee decided to set
up the stint where he is 'accosted" by three anti-castro Cubans. Yes,
Dave, it was all set up. That lying so-and-so Bringuier knows it and
will never admit it, it would prove he perjured himself, that nerdy,
wimpy traitor. Anyway, go to a microfilm of the times-Picayune. if you
can;t reach one, i will send you a scan of it.
You might also go to March 23, 1962, to see where ochsner and Shaw
parted company publically so they would not seem associatefd with each
other throughout this get-castro project. The approximate start date
of the get-castro biomedical project i was involved in began about
march 20, 1962. A year later, ochsner's entire foundation and
hospital, etc. has moved to new location, pumped up by huge amounts of
texas money, and while these huge moves are going on with transfers of
labs and equipment,Dave ferrie, Dr. Mary, myself, etc. we get the
fallout of lost and misplaced equipment, we get the labs set up during
ochsner's huge move, and nobody notices or is able to accout for it.
To aid in the 'forgetfulness," Ochsner's person in charge of the
entire move to new grounds from the old was former FBI agent, i can
get his name for you.
So the labs got clandestinely set up. I have found corroboration
and evidence for the labs, of course, but for years had no way to
prove this except through Garrison, who was so discredited it was
hopeless to use anything he had. but I have independently now
confirmed this and much, much more that I was involved in. My stack of
evidence up through and including Sept. 1, 1963 is believed by almost
everyone to be conclusive and concrete. Even my continuing contacts
in gainesville between end of sept. and end of december, before i drop
out of sight and don;t even return to cllege for a year, then to go
into ENGLISH, is now under investigation with no hitches.
Debra Conway knows, as i said, that lee and I had intimacy.
I suggest that you check the connections between Ochsner and Shaw
as carefully as you can.
Somebody asked me, i think David lBlackburst through Howard, about
Dave ferrie's 'special" ring if he wore one or not. We wore lab gloves
over there, I saw Dave's hands bare of rings, but I DID get to see
probably all of the rings he owned through a fluke. We were playing
with the (sterilizing gfactor) black light, and he brought out all his
jewelry, rock and other such specimens....so I can describe a number
of rings, not just one, even one that belonged to his mother and which
somebody may go after to hunt down --because this was a very unusual
ring and would not be forgotten. An example of stuff i know that
peoiple go after and confirm. each little point strengthening me, you
==got to go to school and teach!=== I hope this is interesting to you.
Please keep it to yourself. Eventually you'll have the information
others do, it will take a very long time. Martin has four feet igh of
emails, Howard even more.
I was told this is very inefficient, one person at a time. But then
when somebody like David Lifton claims to know all about me from a 90
minute phgone call 9which he did not spend all of gertting info)--can
you believe he has obtained the information he thinks he has to say i
am a fraud who has oinserted myself into history? HOW can I "insert"
myself into ads and other things others never even knew were there and
missed all this time? I am telling you the truth, and once you get
enough information, you'll know it has never changed, everybody has
the ame information, some of you an additional detail or two because
of asking a certain question. Such as , Dr. Joe Riehl asked me about
Dave ferrie's neck. I told him there were lumps on the back of his
neck, rather like healed-over old boils, but they could represent
aneuysms with potential to burst, too. Dave had me feel them, he
thought they were cancer (no).
When people ask, i can usually give more details, so some people
have a few extra details, but everybody has the basic details which
include a lot of things they have been able to look up and confirm for
themsleves. Such as, how many peoiple know that in the smmer of 1963,
reily packed towels in soap boxes on their coffee and tea packaging
line? try and find it anywhere. But we found a worker this spring who
has been there for thirty years who remembered that soap packing did
go on until another plant took that ovcer.....this sprng this was
confirmed by her. So one by one, i am proving everything.
By the way, someone else has decided to listen before judging me---who
had been told by Lifton not to listen but decided to give me a chance--
asked some questions I answered, and asked a few more---you and this
person are the last who I am going to talk to new, as it requires so
much time to get your knowledge of my situation up to speed with
everybody else---this person is a very important researcher. this
person checked on some statements given, and nobody but this person
knew additional about these details. this person now suddenly believes
me. After, thank God, only a few emails! So now will get much more
information, and is opening all files to search and verify a few
things others still have not been able to do, esp. about Eglin AFB,
which is why it happens to be on my mind right now.=====
OOPS! wrote that right in the middle of something i wrote to you
earlier, soooooo...to continue the thread-----about meeting Lee, who
was sent to check on me=====
I mentioned "Rorke" and "Robert A. Baker." My "Rorke" was Raleigh
Rourke of Eglin AFB area, and "my" Robert A. Baker lived in Fort
W:alton Beach, near Eglin-- lee thought I was referring to "his"
contacts and thought I knew more than I actually did. By the time
things got clarified, i had learned more than I should have, I feel.
But by then we were beginning to bond. By nodding my head and
claiming I understood things I did not, lee gave me information that
otherwise he would not have given me. I was immensely attracted to
him, and he to me.