The "Rear Head Snap" And Why It's Completely Meaningless
David Von Pein
>>> "What's your thought about the "head movement" argument?" <<<
MY REPLY.......
In actuality, the "head snap to the rear" is totally meaningless, and
proves absolutely nothing.
Why? Because of the medical/autopsy evidence associated with President
John F. Kennedy's head wound, to wit.....
1.) One entry wound (on the back of JFK's head).
2.) One exit wound (right side-top of JFK's head).
3.) Bullet fragment from Lee Harvey Oswald's gun plucked from JFK's
head.
4.) Oswald's gun was located to the REAR of the President's car during
the entire shooting timeline on November 22, 1963.
Adding #1 through #4 = A frontal head shot is not even REMOTELY
possible, regardless of President Kennedy's head movements after he was
shot.
JFK's head could have performed a Linda Blair imitation and spun around
thirteen times after the bullet hit him, and it still wouldn't have
altered the verifiable entry and exit wounds on his head that were
discovered at the President's autopsy.
But CTers love to isolate the "Back And To The Left" motion of JFK's
head, instead of looking at the autopsy photos and autopsy report which
verify that JUST ONE BULLET hit Kennedy in the head. And that one
bullet positively came from behind.
Plus.....
There's also this from Dr. Charles Petty:
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "What was the conclusion your panel came to as to how
many bullets struck the President, their point of entry, and the path
they took through the President's body?"
DR. PETTY -- "My conclusion, and the conclusion of the panel, was that
the President was struck by two bullets -- one entering the right-upper
back and exiting in the front of the neck; the other entering the right
back of the head, and exiting what we call the right-frontal area, that
is the front and side of the head."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Is there any doubt in your mind, Doctor, whatsoever
that both bullets that struck the President came from the rear and no
bullets struck him from the front?"
DR. PETTY -- "None whatsoever."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "Let me ask you this, Dr. Petty .... assuming the
President HAD been struck by a bullet from the front -- make that
assumption -- could the transference of momentum from that bullet have
thrown the President backward as is shown in frames 315 to 320 of the
Zapruder Film?"
DR. PETTY -- "No sir, not in my opinion."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "And why is that?"
DR. PETTY -- "Because the head is too heavy. There's too much muscular
resistance to movement."
MR. BUGLIOSI -- "So the killings that people see on television and in
the movies, which is the only type of killings most people ever see,
where the person struck by the bullet very frequently, visibly, and
dramatically is propelled backward by the force of the bullet -- that's
not what actually happens in life when a bullet hits a human being?"
DR. PETTY -- "No, of course not."
~~~~~~~~~~~
Plus.....
There are also the verified experiments done by John K. Lattimer re.
the head movement:
"Combinations of human skull tops and melons were tested, and, again,
all fell backward off the stand toward the shooter. No melon or skull
combination ever fell AWAY from the shooter. Human skulls were then
packed with solid melon contents and taped and sewed tightly together
with strong tape and thread to simulate the scalp. We fired into these
at the same point and at the same angle as the President was struck.
The skull wounds produced were strikingly similar to Kennedy's. Again,
the skulls fell or jumped off the stand toward the shooter, and large
fragments of the top of the skulls flew upward and forward for
distances of forty feet or more, just as fragments of Kennedy's skull
can be seen to have done in frames 313 through 318 of the Zapruder
movie." -- J.K. Lattimer; Page 251 of "Kennedy And Lincoln" (c.1980)
--------
"I wish to re-emphasize that none of our test objects in these
experiments with melons and skulls ever jumped or fell off the stand
AWAY from the shooter." -- J.K. Lattimer; Page 251
--------
"Our experiments verified that the backward movement of the President's
head was compatible with his being struck from the rear, and that it
was certainly not necessary to hit the head from the front in order to
make the head move toward the gun." -- J.K. Lattimer; Page 255
--------
And.....
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy.jfk/msg/42a0bbac40f320f5
Gerry Simone (O)
Was that fragment plucked from JFK's head a ballistic match?
The autopsy photos and x-rays have their issues.
Other experts would disagree with Mr. Petty (did the defence rebut with
the logical question, 'if the head is too heavy and there's too much
muscular resistance to movement, like you say, then why did it move the
way it did or at all?').
Somebody else cited that the HSCA's skull-shot tests proved that skulls
move in the direction of the bullet in accordance with the laws of
physics, and that Lattimer's tests were skewed.
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1166773452.0...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
John McAdams
<newdec...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>How can the laws of physics be completely meaningless?
>
>Was that fragment plucked from JFK's head a ballistic match?
>
>The autopsy photos and x-rays have their issues.
>
>Other experts would disagree with Mr. Petty (did the defence rebut with
>the logical question, 'if the head is too heavy and there's too much
>muscular resistance to movement, like you say, then why did it move the
>way it did or at all?').
>
>Somebody else cited that the HSCA's skull-shot tests proved that skulls
>move in the direction of the bullet in accordance with the laws of
>physics, and that Lattimer's tests were skewed.
>
If memory serves, the skulls neither went away from the rifle, or
jumped back toward the rifle, but just spun around and fell off the
surface they were sitting on.
But the HSCA volumes are online, so it should not be hard to find
that.
.John
The Kennedy Assassination Home Page
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
tomnln
http://whokilledjfk.net/horne__report.htm
"David Von Pein" <davev...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1166773452.0...@i12g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
David Von Pein
Because, in the JFK case in particular, it's not important WHICH WAY
THE HEAD MOVED -- because the only verifiable, official, factual
medical evidence in the case tells us that Kennedy was shot just ONE
time in the head, and it came FROM BEHIND (regardless of head movement
AFTER the bullet struck).
The rearward head motion of JFK's cranium might seem "weird" or "funny"
or "impossible" to a lot of people -- but the physical and medical
evidence in the case makes ANY head movement a completely moot point.
>>> "Was that fragment plucked from JFK's head a ballistic match?" <<<
That fragment (from CE843, which actually consisted of two separate
fragments) very likely came from a WCC/MC bullet, and very likely (per
NAA analysis) came from the same bullet which also deposited fragments
under Nellie Connally's seat and which deposited the two large
fragments in the front seat of the limo.
And the ONLY possible source of such extensive fragmentation of a
bullet within that limousine was President Kennedy's head.
It's my firm opinion that the NAA analysis of the JFK head fragment(s)
is not even needed to arrive at the obvious conclusion of: Lee Harvey
Oswald's own gun caused JFK's head injuries.
Because, as mentioned, there's NOTHING else that could have caused
Oswald's bullet to break apart in the manner that it did except John F.
Kennedy's head (with two large mangled pieces ending up to the FRONT of
the victim).
Governor John Connally's injuries are positively ruled out as a source
of the front-seat fragments. This is because of the existence of bullet
CE399 (found in the hospital where Connally was taken) and the fact
that Connally was struck by just ONE single bullet (per his doctors'
comments on this matter, plus the fact that if he were hit by multiple
bullets that were fragmenting badly within him....then WHERE in the
world are those fragments inside JBC's body? They aren't there.
Only a microscopic amount of lead (less than the weight of a "postage
stamp", per Dr. Gregory) was deposited in John Connally's body during
the shooting. It's silly to think that TWO or more bullets left only
this miniscule amount of lead and trace evidence behind in wake of the
shooting event. This fact also tends to buttress the SBT and the notion
that CE399 was certainly the bullet that left only very minimal lead
deposits behind in JBC's whole body (with a mere 2 grains {approx.}
missing from CE399's total mass).
Of course, all CTers enjoy trashing Dr. Guinn's analysis and his HSCA
testimony, as the conspiracists consider Guinn's 1978 analysis to be
completely outdated. But what I'd like to know is this.....
Just exactly how likely (odds-wise) is it that Dr. Vincent P. Guinn
would testify to the effect that TWO specific bullets (that both very
likely came from the barrel of Oswald's C2766 rifle, via Guinn's NAA
results) were the only two bullets that can be linked to any of the
ballistics samples in the John Kennedy murder case and yet still NOT
have Oswald's Carcano doing all of the damage to the victims on
11/22/63?
Even via 1970s-era NAA technology, what are the odds that Guinn's data
would end up revealing the likelihood that ONLY BULLETS FROM OSWALD'S
RIFLE STRUCK ANY VICTIMS ON 11/22/63?
My guess is -- the odds of that occurring must be fairly low indeed.
~~~~~~
A sampling of Dr. Guinn's HSCA testimony.....
MR. WOLF -- "Dr. Guinn, based on these results, do you have an opinion
as to what type of bullets these fragments were from?"
DR. GUINN -- "Once again, every one of these samples is in the same
range, which is an unusual range, as the background WCC
Mannlicher-Carcano samples that we have looked at from all four
production lots. These five {CE399, CE567, CE840, CE842, and CE843}
fall right in the midrange, in fact. They are not the highest; they are
not the lowest of the antimony range, and the same is true of the
silver."
MR. WOLF -- "It is your opinion then that these all are fragments from
WCC Mannlicher-Carcano bullets?"
DR. GUINN -- "I think that is their most likely origin, yes."
MR. WOLF -- "Can you, just from looking at the results, state what is
the number of bullets that these evidence specimens came from?"
DR. GUINN -- "Yes, sir, I can."
MR. WOLF -- "What is the number of bullets, in your opinion?"
DR. GUINN -- "These numbers correspond to two bullets. Two of the
samples have indistinguishable compositions, indicating that they came
from the same bullet, and the other three particles are evidently
samples from another bullet."
MR. WOLF -- "So it is your opinion that the evidence specimens
represent only evidence of two bullets, is that correct?"
DR. GUINN -- "Yes, sir, there is no evidence for three bullets, four
bullets, or anything more than two, but there is clear evidence that
there are two."
>>> "Other experts would disagree with Mr. Petty (did the defence rebut with the logical question, 'if the head is too heavy and there's too much muscular resistance to movement, like you say, then why did it move the way it did or at all?')." <<<
Yes, I thought of that very same potential defense-rebuttal argument
too. But, Mr. Spence (doing the rotten overall job for the defense that
he did at the '86 Mock Trial) never said a thing about that "muscular
resistance".
But, as mentioned, the direction JFK's head moves is not very
important, in light of the evidence which conclusively proves that
Kennedy was shot just once in the head from behind.
David Von Pein
A CTer said.....
"{Motorcycle Officer} Martin was also covered with this {blood/brain}
matter. Hargis said that his being pelted was instantaneous upon the
explosion of the President's head."
DVP.....
"Then WHY don't we see ANY blood & brain cloud to the REAR of JFK after
Z313 (i.e. toward the direction of the two cycle officers)?
I guess, therefore, by all CT accounts, Martin & Hargis were struck,
somehow, by the completely INVISIBLE cloud of debris exiting the rear
of JFK's head. Because we can easily see -- there's NO cloud of head
debris visible BEHIND JFK at any point on the Z-Film.
Wasn't it convenient and handy for the conspirators (and the CTers
defending such frontal-shot conspiracy notions/nonsense) to ONLY have a
blood cloud visible on the Zapruder Film to the FRONT of JFK, to
implicate only a rear patsy shooter? And not a trace of any
blood/matter visible to the REAR of the head.
Since we can ONLY see a blood cloud to the FRONT of Mr. Kennedy, and
none visible to his rear -- it's logical to assume, is it not, that
this is the ONLY blood cloud exiting JFK's head? Obviously this is
reasonable. Because how is it possible for any "to the rear" blood
cloud to be invisible, and yet all of the to-the-front matter to be
visible on the film?
It's totally illogical to think that there's a significant amount of
head debris (by the officers' accounts) coming out of JFK's head AT THE
REAR OF THE HEAD that is completely invisible to Zapruder's lens --
while, at the very same instant, a large cloud is visible to the front.
Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that what hit the two motorcycle
officers WAS indeed the only cloud visible -- and that's the debris to
the FRONT.
If Hargis & Martin were SLAMMED with great force by blood & brains
immediately after the Z313 head shot, we would SURELY detect at least a
HINT of this massive amount of bloody material moving away from the
rear of JFK's head.
But, as can easily be seen, there's not even the slightest hint of
REDNESS to the rear of the head. It's ALL toward the front, coming out
the EXIT WOUND."
David Von Pein
October 31, 2004
David Von Pein
1.) Bullet strikes JFK from the FRONT, moving 2000fps toward the REAR of
the Lincoln Continental limousine....and yet fragments from the bullet
reverse direction after contacting JFK's cranium, and end up in the FRONT
seat of the vehicle.
2.) Bullet strikes JFK from the FRONT, and somehow ALL the blood spray and
massive blood cloud coming out of JFK's head are thrown to the FRONT of
JFK's head; with absolutely NO blood visible at the supposed EXITING point
at the REAR of the head.
Odds of above 2 things occurring if head shot came from front ----
Approx. 0.000000%.
Anthony Marsh
> Related Head-Shot Post:
>
> 1.) Bullet strikes JFK from the FRONT, moving 2000fps toward the REAR of
> the Lincoln Continental limousine....and yet fragments from the bullet
> reverse direction after contacting JFK's cranium, and end up in the FRONT
> seat of the vehicle.
>
No one said that. No one proved that the front seat compartments came
from the head shot.
> 2.) Bullet strikes JFK from the FRONT, and somehow ALL the blood spray and
> massive blood cloud coming out of JFK's head are thrown to the FRONT of
> JFK's head; with absolutely NO blood visible at the supposed EXITING point
> at the REAR of the head.
>
Blood and brain can only exit from where there is a hole. And the hole
was in the TOP of the head, blown out by overpressure.
David Von Pein
possibly?} came from the head shot." <<<
There was absolutely no other source for those front-seat C2766 bullet
fragments other than JFK's head. None.
Connally's injuries are ruled out for sure....due to the fact we know he
was hit by just ONE bullet, which HAS to be CE399, due to the fact that
399 was found in the very hospital where JBC was taken (and the fact that
the bullet was found in an area of the hospital where neither JFK or JFK's
stretcher was EVER located prior to the bullet being found by Tomlinson).
The mere PRESENCE of a nearly-whole bullet FROM LHO'S GUN being in the
hospital where JBC was taken on 11/22 is proof that that bullet HAD to
have arrived in Parkland BY WAY OF JOHN CONNALLY'S BODY.
~~ (Awaiting the "It Was Planted" response. THE ONLY response that CTers
CAN make. Because without that allegation, they have to know that 399 is a
bullet that went into Connally's body on 11/22/63....and since we know
that Connally was struck by just ONE bullet....the math becomes simple.)
~~
Therefore, since we now KNOW that CE399 HAS to be THE ONE BULLET that
struck Connally (the only other limo victim besides JFK)....this means
that JFK's head is the ONLY THING that could possibly have caused that
severe fragmentation of the bullet that deposited the front-seat
fragments...fragments, of course, which positively came from OSWALD'S
RIFLE.
It's kindergarten math.
>>> "The hole was in the TOP of the head." <<<
That must be the invisible hole at the top of the head we see here,
right?.....
http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/autopsy_slideshow/images/AUT10_HI.jpg
Anthony Marsh
>>>> "No one proved that the front-seat compartments {"fragments",
> possibly?} came from the head shot." <<<
>
> There was absolutely no other source for those front-seat C2766 bullet
> fragments other than JFK's head. None.
>
They came from a shot which directly hit Connally's wrist and broke up,
sending fragments into the windshield and chrome topping. The angles are
not right for fragments leaving the head.
> Connally's injuries are ruled out for sure....due to the fact we know he
> was hit by just ONE bullet, which HAS to be CE399, due to the fact that
> 399 was found in the very hospital where JBC was taken (and the fact that
> the bullet was found in an area of the hospital where neither JFK or JFK's
> stretcher was EVER located prior to the bullet being found by Tomlinson).
>
Connally could have been hit by CE 399. But he could also have been hit
by another bullet.
> The mere PRESENCE of a nearly-whole bullet FROM LHO'S GUN being in the
> hospital where JBC was taken on 11/22 is proof that that bullet HAD to
> have arrived in Parkland BY WAY OF JOHN CONNALLY'S BODY.
>
No, it could have been planted.
> ~~ (Awaiting the "It Was Planted" response. THE ONLY response that CTers
> CAN make. Because without that allegation, they have to know that 399 is a
> bullet that went into Connally's body on 11/22/63....and since we know
> that Connally was struck by just ONE bullet....the math becomes simple.)
> ~~
>
No, CE 399 could be genuine and not planted, but it does not have to do
what WC defenders demand of it.
> Therefore, since we now KNOW that CE399 HAS to be THE ONE BULLET that
> struck Connally (the only other limo victim besides JFK)....this means
> that JFK's head is the ONLY THING that could possibly have caused that
> severe fragmentation of the bullet that deposited the front-seat
> fragments...fragments, of course, which positively came from OSWALD'S
> RIFLE.
>
No, the WC defenders postulate a third shot. Tell us what that hit.
> It's kindergarten math.
>
>
>>>> "The hole was in the TOP of the head." <<<
>
> That must be the invisible hole at the top of the head we see here,
> right?.....
>
> http://www.jfklancer.com/photos/autopsy_slideshow/images/AUT10_HI.jpg
>
There is no hole.
>